tv Deadline White House MSNBC September 27, 2022 1:00pm-3:00pm PDT
the hearing date to be determined was meant to be a big reset for the committee. a moment to refocus the committee's attention ton the deadliest attack on the capitol in centuries. the role of the u.s. president and his allies. a key player in the next hearing, roger stone. nbc news has obtained portions of the documentary, a storm foretold, which follows stone in the days leading up to january 6th. parts of the documentary will be featured in upcoming hearing. here's stone four months before the election telling an aide that trump should reject the results. >> what they're assuming is that the election will be normal. it will not be norm sal. oh, these are the california results, sorry. if the electors show up, armed
guards will throw them out. i'm the president. [ bleep ] you. i'm challenging all of it and the judges we're going to are judges i appointed [ bleep ] you. you're not stealing the election. >> why was he so sure trump was going to lose? and here's roger stone after january 6th on plans for a pardon for himself and for others who were involved in plotting to overturn the election. >> talk b about how many -- >> i think 132 congressmen voted with trump. that's 132 right there. big or small as you want. it's a way of saying this is so you can't run your switch on two. i'm going to deal with movie poster, witch hunt 2 with a big picture of merrick garland. >> has it been pitched to the president? >> yes, it has. i believe the president's for it. the obstacles are these lily
livered, weak kneed bureaucrats in the white house counsel's office and now they must be crushed because they told the president something that's not true. >> lily livered, weak kneed. in a statement, stone says he thinks those videos have been manipulated, but he has not provided a single shred of evidence to back up the claim. preparations for the hearing come at a critical moment for the committee with big, unanswered questions for the committee's members as they prepare to wrap up its work by the end of the year. from "the new york times," quote, the panel whose public hearings this summer exposed substantial new details about former president donald j. trump's efforts to reverse the outcome of the 2020 election was still decide whether to issue subpoenas to mr. trump and former vp, mike pence. it has yet to settle on whether to enforce subpoenas issued to republican members of congress who have refused to operate with the inquiry on what legislative
recommends to make and must grapple with when to turn files over to the justice department and finish a written report on whether to make criminal referrals. it cannot even agree on whether wednesday's delayed hearing will be its last. let's discuss. joining us now to start off our program, katie benner. also, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney now law professor at the university of alabama and former republican congressman, david jolly. they're all msnbc contributors and friends of this hour. katie, i want to start with you. the hearing is now officially postponed. but what can you tell us about what the committee had planned for tomorrow because it's likely to be rescheduled pretty soon. they're only delaying it because of the storm. >> the first question, there were a lot of questions inside of the committee about what could happen and what they could present to the american public.
there are no witnesses, for example. they weren't really sure what they should say. this has been in some ways a hearing that has been a debate about whether or not there should be a recap of what happened. what the most compelling evidence is they can show about people like roger stone and whether they should take the eye off of donald trump. should they be looking at massive security failures that happened ahead of january 6th? which is something committees have been researching. it seems like before today, they settled on a mixed bag. that they would look at the you know, they would do a bit of a recap for the american public. they would hone in on people like roger stone, but it was not even clear whether or not this would be their last hearing. >> joyce, i'm not saying it's fair or just, but a lot of people are fatigued and confused. blame donald trump there are so many damn investigations out there, but given these hurdles,
what does the committee need to do to get people to care? this is really important stuff. >> well, first off, i think the committee made the right decision here living in alabama, not too far up from the florida alabama coast, our prayers obviously go out to everyone in ian's path and staying safe is the most important thing. so for the committee to not do anything that would impair people further was a good move. it also is an opportunity for the committee to solidify its plan for this hearing. so far, the committee has managed to deliver in each one of these hearings. they've pushed the ball forward. and they've kept the focus on the former president. which as you point out, is very difficult to do. there are so many investigations swirling around the former president that it gets confusing and of course, trump refers to that as witch hunts. it's just a witch hunt because there are so many investigations. in reality, what that means is there was just so much misconduct. so much wrong doing.
and this is the committee's final opportunity to present to the jury of public opinion because their job here is the political job, not the criminal investigation, that this is their final opportunity to compel people. to compel voters on their way to the polls, whether they believe they have a direct political role or not, that the former president's conduct was so egregious that it disqualifies him from further surface. whether it's the recap, presentation of new evidence or some combination of those two, the overarching burden this committee now carries is making sure that this former president never returns to office. >> i want to dig deeper into your reporting because it's forward looking. you write representative zoe lofgren, democrat of california, said the panel would focus some of its energy on ongoing threats to democracy such as 2020 election deniers gaining power over election systems. help us understand this because they're not looking just at
january 6th. what they're pushing to is showing the american public these risks are ongoing. they're all over this country whether you see it or hear it. it's happening. >> absolutely. and this is something that many members of the committee including lofgren, including liz cheney herself, have spoken about and focused on. they don't want us to see january 6th as the worst attack on american soil since 9/11. they want to see it as the beginning of something. as the beginning of multiple movements to undermine democracy. so they want to sort of contextualize not only was this terrible, but it is not yet gone. it's a problem born on january 6th and that is something we need to vanquish. so this is an obsession for many members of this committee. zoe lofgren, but particularly cheney. she had been speaking at the texas tribune festival over the weekend and saturday night, she said multiple times, i do not
think people who deny the results of an election should be in office. she encouraged voters to make sure they did not control the levers of government. it's one of the reasons why we may or may not see this as the last hearing when we do get it because she has messages she wants to put in front of voters between now and election day. >> what do you think about that, david? look at states like maryland, pennsylvania, where you've got full blown election deniers running for governor. people running for secretaries of state. it would not necessarily protect our democracy. >> it is one of the great threats to today's democracy and it is true it's a recognition that january 6th was almost just halftime. that this movement toward antidemocratic action that is get permission structure for one of today's two major parties, if that is to continue, this is a
danger. i think the question is that an agenda that appropriately sits within the january 6th committee or not. was the january 6th committee charged with investigating the events of january 6th, 2021. i would lean towards the latter because the clock is not on their side. we have six weeks until election day. the american people's mind is not always going to be focused ond donald trump and january 6th. coming out of november, you only have another six weeks and if the house switches, a winddown. they have presented to america a story that surprised many of us, the direct indictment of donald trump himself. they went in each hearing, straight towards donald trump's culpability. they have delivered that message to the american people. now is probably the time to see what are their conclusions and what do they look like in writing in a final report. and a report that likely would be relayed over to the department of justice.
because the indictment will be damning. we don't need a lot more than what we've already seen to understand donald trump's culpability. the question of what comes next. is the american public willing to stand up and stop the next january 6th? >> joyce, it may be a damnig indictment, but all they can do is write a report. given that, how essential is it for them to wrap this up and give their work over to the department of justice who can actually put some real consequences behind this? >> so doj doesn't have to wait on the committee to send them a report. they're fully capable of investigating on their own. in fact, in many ways, their power is far superior to congress'. they can use a grand jury. issue subpoenas. force them to obtain witness testimony. so in many ways, these two investigations are running on parallel tracks, but ultimately
making their case to different juries. congress to the jury of public opinion. doj, should they find evidence they believe is sufficient for indictment, may well end up in a federal courtroom making their case to a jury. >> but katie, hasn't the january 6th committee said they're not going to quote unquote turn over all their research and work to the doj until they're done? that's really valuable content that the doj could use, no? >> it is valuable content and the justice department could certainly use it, but the i think the committee is in the tough spot. they want to make sure they have the best information. they have blockbuster information. they see this as presenting to the american public both in a report, but as you and i both know, people don't read these written reports. how many people in the country sat down and read all 500 pages of the mueller report. they want no leaks, no surprises. they don't want anything coming out of a back and forth between
the justice department and the committee. they want to present the information in the most powerful way to the american people. on what they're supposed to be doing as a committee, that is interesting, too. because there are people on the committee who said while part of our mission was to see what went wrong. there are pieces of information for example about law enforcement failures that are just not getting play to the american people because it doesn't really work for this bigger message of donald trump and republicans holding him accountable that several members think is more important. we're also seeing a back and forth about not only the committee wanting all the information for itself so that it can have the most impactful hearings possible. some would say to the detriment of the justice department, but also the committee debating is our mission to keep donald trump from ever being in office again? to force republicans to vanquish him? or is our mission to present to the american public what happened on january 6th in its full and most complete picture whether or not that full and
complete picture actually does the work of you know, quote unquote stopping trump. >> i want to play another clip from that roger stone documentary. here's what he said before the 2020 election. >> let's just hope we're celebrating. >> yeah. >> i suspect it will be up in the air. when that happens, the key thing to do is to claim victory. possession is nine tenths of the law. no, we won, [ bleep ] you. you're wrong, [ bleep ] you. >> we won, you're wong, f you. isn't that what donald trump tried to do, david? >> it is, and look, it's a tactic in close elections to declare victory, but the context of stone saying that is most disconcerting. this is someone who pushed the election denying strategy and was expecting if not encouraging violence. t what ultimately was the currency of the january 6th
attempt to undermine the election, violence, this is the actor that roger stone is. i think that's why he's a target of the january 6th committee's investigation. department of justice as well. but this, the interesting thing about this whole conversation is the, there's another challenge for the committee. because the scope is so broad and because the malfeasance went so far and so many different corners, what is the final message that the american people need to get out of this investigation? and is it to focus singularly on the actor to have donald trump as the person that convened this strategy and was willing to affirm violence and when he saw it, asked for a weaker security posture? is that a message? or is it within the infrastructure, there's a network of people willing to do this again. that's a message that has to get delivered very soon. because 13 weeks from now, the odds are there is no january 6th committee. it's completely shutdown and
we're also as we mentioned in a holiday season and so forth. what is the message the committee needs the american people to know so they can make a decision about the future? we're at the point. we need that message. >> to that very point, we haven't gotten that message yet. you know what message we get every day, david? the big lie. over and over. and there's a new poll out of monmouth that shows six in ten republicans believe that biden is now president only because of fraud in the election. is that not a sign that donald trump's lie has gotten through and unfortunately, the committee's hard work hasn't? >> i would probably see it slightly different. i think the january 6th committee has been exceedingly effective at saying donald trump is uniquely responsible for the violence we saw on january 6th. donald trump gave aid and comfort to the election denying narrative and it is because of his leadership that we see six in ten people believing that.
they delivered a sering indictment of donald trump and we didn't know how they were going to handle that singular issue, but we do now. he has broken down the traditional orthodoxy of the gop and rebuilt it in his own image. so now election denying is part of what the republican party is. i think the focus is a corollary to donald trump's personal responsibility, but it's a broader question for whether or not the country can trust the gop in this moment and the people to deliver that question and answer it are, is the viable democratic party alternative to the republicans. one that's going to defend democracy and rights in america going forward. one will trample on it and trample on your rights. that's a political question. but the committee can issue the indictment of how we got here. >> democrats, independents, and some more traditional republicans are hearing that january 6th message and standing up for democracy while trump's hard core base, though smaller,
is standing close to him. joyce and david, you are sticking around. when we come back, former chief of staff due in court today after receiving a subpoena for his testimony in front of a grand jury. his potential legal peril, next. and the irony. the top law enforcement officer in texas, attorney general ken paxton, fleeing his home to avoid a subpoena over his state's abortion ban. yes. the very same ken paxton who has sought to block women in texas from trying to leave the state to get access to abortion. what's he doing? sneaking out on his own. his wife driving the truck. and later in the hour, millions in florida have just a few short hours to finish preparing for hurricane ian as it barrels toward their western coast. a full forecast later on. don't go anywhere. you're watching deadline white house. you're watching dead lline house.
today is the day for donald trump's former chief of staff in fulton county, georgia. he was ordered to appear before a grand jury there. one investigating efforts to overturn that state's 2020 election result. we should note we don't know for sure if he even showed up today. this is a state level investigation separate from what the justice department is doing, but no less important. undoubtedly if interest for the grand jury this afternoon, a now infamous phone call between trump and georgia elections officials where he made this now very famous -- >> i just want to find 11,780
votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state. so what are we going to do here, folks? i only need 11,000 votes. fellas, i need 11,000 votes. give me a break. >> all i need is 11,780 votes. no problem. that sounds legal. joining us now to discuss, blaine alexander who's been outside that courthouse in atlanta all day. joyce and david still with us. blaine, you have been there all day. any sign of meadows? >> reporter: the short answer to that is no. we have not seen him. we've been watching this entrance and two others and have not seen any sign of him going in. it is worth noting there's a private entrance in which cars can go underground. that's the entrance most of witnesses up to this point have been using and so if he were to go in, that's certainly the entrance he would likely use. again, this is a grand jury
process so it's secretive, so there's no way of confirming whether or not he appeared before a grand jury today. what we know however is what the d.a. was hoping to hear from him. the phone call you just played, that's chief among them. not only was meadows on the call that day, he spoke up several times during the course of that more than an hour long phone call and the d.a. has said she wants to not only hear about the phone call, but about the conversations that led up to setting it up. the conversations around the phone call. as to why it was set up in the phone call. who had any sort of insight into the former president's mindset, his thoughts around any efforts to overturn the election here in georgia and certainly meadows as the president's chief of staff at the time would fit the bill. there are a couple of other things, too, something talked about less than the call, but that they're investigating as
well. that's a trip he made to cobb county and visited a place where there was an audit of some absentee ballots. it was an announced visit an he asked to be let into the process. he was denied because it wasn't a public meeting or a public audit, but that's something the d.a. wants to ask about as well, along with allegations he made to the justice department asking the doj to look into allegations of election fraud here in georgia. >> joyce, let's say meadows didn't show up today. if and what are the consequences? i don't know if i didn't show up, there would likely be u.s. marshalls at my door waiting to cuff me. >> well, it really depends on a couple of things here. it depends on whether his lawyer coordinated with the district attorney's office in advance. i wouldn't be too quick to assume he didn't testify. prosecutors are notorious for getting their grand jury
witnesses in and out with privacy and without much public hoopla. the interesting issue for meadows here is that if he is in fact being treated more as a witness than as a potential subject or target of this investigation, then he's very fortunate because his behavior was awfully close to the former president. it's possible that he could be characterized as a co-conspirator. if bonnie willis decides there's sufficient evidence to go ahead and indict. so his lawyers would have likely counseled him if he had that opportunity to show up as cooperative witness to do so if he didn't show up and if it's a worst case scenario where he didn't show up without any notice, then he might ultimately change his status and it had way prosecutors view his role in these events. >> we also understand fannie
willis intends to put a hiatus on this investigation as a midterm elections start up. what can you tell us about that? >> reporter: we're looking at just a little over a week. it's something she's been clear about all along, that she doesn't want to give any appearance of influencing the election in any way. she stopped back in the primaries and she's going to do that as we get closer to november. october 7th, that's the date we're looking at. in georgia, it's the first day that voters can begin to cast absentee ballots. also the day willis has said she's going to stop all activity. that means we're not going to see subpoenas. not going to see activity around the grand jury and it's going to stay on recess likely until the end of the election then if there are any runoffs here in georgia likely until sometime after that. now there is a enough of a timeline she's put forth. is that she said she hopes to in her words, send the grand jury on its way by the end of 2020. saying that she wants to have
all this wrapped up before the end of the year. she said just last week that she'd only heard from about 65% of the people she hopes to hear from so we know that there are more witnesses to come forth and testify. >> what could political implications be? she puts this on hold. say republicans win a whole bunch of these state races. could that put this investigation in peril on the other side? >> i don't think so because the georgia investigation and joyce could comment on this, is one of the purer investigations. you actually have on audio tape and it's a determination of law and fact. was donald trump illegally trying to influence or tamper with the results of the georgia election. i think there's ample evidence there. what i find intriguing about the meadows narrative, i say this broadly even past georgia. i think it's one of the more
intriguing subplots now because he's largely gone dark. we hear very little from him and that started about the time the january 6th enforcement mechanisms against steve bannons and others started ramping up. meadows i think in a very risk averse way has realized i need to play this right and in particular, here's why, stephanie. mark short, vice president pence's chief of staff at the time at the beginning of the summer, publicly accused meadows of trying to have it both ways. of lying. saying to pence and others, i'm trying to settle down this election stealing, but also entertaining the mike lees and others of the world who were suggesting that yes, the election was stolen so i'm going to give aid and comfort to the donald trump side of this equation. i think meadows, he has been publicly accused of having it both ways. that makes him a very hard witness not to perjure himself because when you're surrounded by liars and thieves, some of whom are now cooperating, you
have no idea what you've been accused of and when you might purger yourself. i think the mark meadows story line is a very important one right now. >> easy to lie on tv. not so easy in a court of law. joyce, just last week, fannie willis told "the washington post" that the allegations are very serious. if indicted and convicted, people are facing prison sentences. you are keeping track of all of these investigations. houchl of a risk is this one to donald trump and the people closest to him in his orbit? >> so each of the investigations including frankly the civil case the new york ag filed last week carry different sort of threats for the former president, but david makes a really good point in regards to the georgia case. it's very direct. it's very simple. georgia has a statute that prohibits election interference, appears to apply squarely to
this situation and the former president is captured on audio tape. it's easy to hear in his voice someone who is requesting that people find him votes that were not cast for him. that's perhaps why everyone hopes that mark meadows will testify in this case. although he has not shown inclination. at least not that we're aware of publicly to cooperate. it would be very helpful to have testimony from someone close to the former president who could confirm he knew he lost the election in georgia, but was seeking those votes nonetheless. >> all right. joyce, david, i need you to stick around for this next segment. blaine, thank you so much. when we come back, the chief law enforcement officer in the state of texas literally running from law enforcement. texas attorney general ken paxton fleeing his home, jumping into a car driven by his wife. why? to avoid being served a subpoena.
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states outside of texas. the process server said he fled his home to avoid the subpoena. his wife, a state senator, then quote got inside the truck and started it, leaving the rear door behind the driver's side open. a few moments later, i saw mr. paxton run toward the driver's side. i loudly called him by his name and stated i had documents for him. mr. paxton ignored me and headed towards the truck. he tweeted the following. it is clear the media wants to drum up another controversy so they are attacking me for having the adasty to avoid a stranger lingering outside my home and showing concern about the safety of my family. this coming from a man who has reportedly gone to court to defend a texas law that allows perfect strangers to sue women on the suspicious they might
have had an abortion. let's bring back joyce and david. joyce, let's just talk about the hypocrisy of paxton, complaining about being approached after setting texas women up to be harassed. >> you know, sometimes events just leave you speechless and i have to say that this is one of them. this is the attorney general of the state of texas saying that he was scared of a process server. someone he didn't know who had approached him. the process server has put forth, and no reason to disbelieve this, that he identified himself and indicated he had legal papers. paxton, the attorney general of the state of texas, understands and appreciates how this works. so what this boils down to is that paxton, the attorney general, the person who's supposed to be in charge and
gauge in oversight of texas' criminal justice system, was afraid of facing the courts himself. if that's not a perfect way of capturing what's going on in texas on this abortion issue, i don't know what is. >> we should make it clear, he might not have liked his process serve, but since then, has not accepted the subpoena. david, i need you to help us understand the politics of texas. if this isn't bad enough, this is a man who has been under indictment for securities fraud for seven years. he is also the subject of a whistleblower investigation and what just happened? primary voters swept him right in. they seem to love this guy. what does that tell you about law enforcement, politics, in the state of texas? >> yeah, you're exactly right. paxton, one of the more disreputable figures in american politics today. the only thing you didn't mention is that he spoke and participated in the january 6th rally. i think it's that final piece that led him to re-election over
george p. bush, one of the younger bush family members in texas. paxton labeled bush an establishment legacy republican and said he was the true trump republican and so texans elected him by a margin of about two to one. this little episode kind of leaves you questioning a lot, but i think it's clear of the person we're speaking about. you can accept a subpoena and petition not to testify. you can petition this is out of bounds and ultimately, that's what he asked the court to do. is squash the subpoena and he was victorious in doing that. but to run from a process server raises a couple of questions. one, did he think it was about something else? did he know it was about this matter or did he think he was being approached about something else or why did he feel threatened? someone that participated in the january 6th rally with a largely
white crowd trying to topple democracy being approached by a process server who appears to be hispanic or not white? why doesn't he say i'm the top lawyer in the state. i'm smart enough to handle this. paxton, he's a bad guy. let's just be honest. indictment, he's been accused of bribery by people w his own par and ran from a process server. he's a bad guy. >> help us understand, david, i know we give you the hard job. where do republicans stand on abortion? because now we're seeing some texas house republicans saying they may need to soften their laws on abortion. we're hearing that on the very same day doug mastriano who's running for governor of pennsylvania, he's now saying women should be charged for murder. women who pursue abortions. where is the gop on this? >> nationally, the gop is out of
step with the american people and people in charge of republican electioneering know in a post dobbs world, they might lose races they otherwise would have won. so republicans are worse off politically in a post dobbs world. as you interpret those numbers where you see democrats giving three, four, five, even a bump of six points in key races, what do republicans have to wrestle with, i think it come down to the fact that the country somewhat naive by put themselves in pro-life or pro-choice camps until the dobbs decision. you're seeing a lot of pro-life traditionally performing voters say wait a minute, i was really pro-roe and now the republican party is anti and taking it even further. the republican party is out of step on this issue. the question is is the consensus within the party willing to approach the real framework as a
future of the abortion and reproductive health question in america? it doesn't appear so and that creates a significant opportunity for democrats this cycle and next. >> joyce, today, it was reported that the governor of oklahoma told a rape survivor that the law in the state, which is very restrictive, can be softened after it was signed. why on earth would they soften it? they just made a move to make it so restrictive and who would believe them? >> it's such a hypocritical thing to say. it's patronizing and it's pandering and women and actual no one else in our society should be deceived by this. the real problem is that republicans had been chasing the car. they were like the dog running after the car that was roe versus wade for close to 50 careers, trying to catch it and overturn it. and now that they've caught that car, they don't know quite what to do because reversing roe, of
having dobbs become the law of the land have political implications they're not ready to face. so we see these sort of cat calls saying we can soften it. we don't have to make it as bad as we said it would be. at the same time that republicans in other states are trying to push this to the outer extend of dobbs, which permits in some cases, absolutely cutting off pregnant people's access to abortions whether they need it for medical purposes or whether it's elective. simply putting it off the table. so i think the bottom line here is that this is a form of deception that's unworthy of our politicians. when laws are passed, those are the laws of the land. no guarantee they will be strengthened or weakened. they are the law and republicans should be forced to face the consequences. >> before we go, the world's dumbest question. why do republicans do it? the overturning of roe v. wade
came as a surprise in the dark of night. all it seems to have done is given them a mountain of problems. >> coming out of the '80s and through the '90s, republicans made a political deal with the devil and said they would be the home of the pro-life movement. that is a very powerful constituency. a very powerful lobbying group in d.c. it is something that had republicans in a post dobbs environment said wait, wait, let's go back to roe, frankly they might be in a worse situation than they would otherwise. to your point, the dobbs case doesn't help republicans going into november. they wanted to prosecute a case against joe biden and the economy and other tertiary issues. instead, republicans are having to worry with dobbs, terrible senate candidates in georgia, ohio and elsewhere. this is not a good issue for republicans.
they know it. they would prefer not to talk about it but it may be exactly what decides november. >> joyce and i are far too young to remember the '80s or '90s. when we come back, people across florida are battening down the hatches. we'll be tracking the hurricane, next. hatches we'll be tracking the hurricane, xt make your home totally you. i did with wayfair. sometimes i'm a homebody. can never have too many pillows.
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expecting landfall between ft. myers and tampa. by the time it reaches the shores of florida, the storm is going to slow down to approximately 5 miles per hour. this means the people of florida are going to experience the impacts of this storm for a very long time. as with any hurricane, it can still be unpredictable. this means it is more important than ever that communities inside and outside of that projected past that you see, that you stay vigilant. so my message to those who may be watching at home, get ready and do not underestimate the potential that this storm can bring. >> that was the fema administrator warning people to take hurricane ian seriously. forecasters say it could become a category 4 hurricane when it hits the southwest shore tomorrow. officials have urged residents to evacuate, calling on
2.5 million people around the state to take shelter. hurricane ian already slammed into cuba today as a category 3, producing maximum sustained winds of 125 miles an hour. hundreds of thousands of people evacuated earlier this week after cuba sent medical and emergency personnel to prepare ahead of the storm. florida governor ron desantis has declared a statewide emergency. residents on the gulf coast prepare by stocking up on food and sang bag homes and businesses as they prepare for major storm surges up and down the coast that could last for days. i want to bring in nbc news correspondent ellison barber in tampa. you're in the evacuation zone. where are they sending people to go to? >> reporter: so they are telling people to just get inland. like say 20, 25 miles would be enough. there are some shelters that have been opened up in this
county. hillsboro county. there are two zones right now in just this county that are under mandatory evacuation orders. that impacts just in this county, about 300,000 people. there are nine other counties that also have evacuation orders. the word from governor ron desantis this afternoon, stephanie, was a hey, you don't have to go all the way to georgia. you don't have to leave the state. get somewhere higher. go more inland. stay with friends if you can. there are shelters, and in this county they started opening those yesterday at about 2:00. where we are, we're kind of the only ones down here. it's just us and some of these ominous looking clouds that have begun to make their way towards us. this business, like many others in the area, they have closed up, done their best to sort of board up, try to prevent what they likely think will be a lot of storm surge headed in their direction. and a lot of people have actually gotten out of town. this is florida. so people are very used to hurricanes. when we've been speaking to
people, they say we know how to prep. we've been through this. but we have also spoken to a lot of people today who said they are evacuating, some of them, for the first time in their entire lives living in this state. listen. >> i never before, but this one is moving kind of slow. so they're predicting a lot of water. i live south tampa. a flood zone area. >> so this one feels different? >> yes. >> this one does feel a little bit different. we've felt that way in the past before. it's better to be safe than sorry. >> personally, i've never left during a hurricane. this time i have four dogs. i have my girl. we're going do the right thing and get away and come back and hopefully nothing is damaged. >> the coastal geography in this area makes this part of florida particularly susceptible to storm surge and very flat long beachs for all of that water that gets stirred up by
hurricanes in tampa areas in particular. you also have to factor in climate change since the 1940s. the sea level here has risen by about 8 inches because of climate change. stephanie? >> does it seems like the businesses, the homes around you, people have evacuated or at least they're hunkering down? >> it does seem like that. more than i expected as someone who has spent quite a few years covering hurricanes in florida. i will say one thing we always notice here, stephanie, is poorer, lower income communities, they don't tend to evacuate, because it's the privilege to have the money for gas, to have the money for hotels, a and so sometimes the shelters aren't as accessible as they should be. >> such an important point. easy to say evacuate. not everyone has somewhere to go. ellison barber, thank you for the update. when we come back, the capitol rioter who assaulted officer fanone on january 6th face-to-face with each other in court. how the judge came down on his
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breaking news today. in a high profile january 6th case, kyle young, a rioter who was convicted for assaulting officer michael fanone has been sentenced to seven years in prison. after the hearing, judge army berman jackson made a powerful message from the bench aimed right at former president donald j. trump, saying, quote, the judiciary has to make it clear it is not patriotism. it is not standing up for
america to stand up for one man who knows full well that he lost instead of the constitution he was trying to subvert. michael fanone was present today at the sentencing, and in an op-ed release this morning titled "what my january 6th assailant deserves," he writes this, quote, the assault changed my life. i suffered a heart attack and a traumatic brain injury. what do i think young deserves? not less than ten years in prison and an assigned cell in maximum security with his co-conspirator donald trump. the words of michael fanone. thank you for joining us on this tuesday. i will be back here for the "the 11th hour" tonight. next, a special super-sized edition of "the beat" with ari melber starts right after this quick break. ter this quick break. multiple years? i don't see any stains. it's lucky. - it's dirty. - lucky. - dirty. - lucky. - dirty. - dirty. - lucky. - ha! maybe lucky?
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good day. i'm ari melber. nicolle wallace is off today. so the news for you, we are doing a two-hour edition of "the beat" live. i hope you stay with me. we're covering this news due to the hurricane bearing down on parts of florida, the january 6th select committee has taken a step to reschedule what was going to be their final hearing. so that will no longer be held tomorrow in congress. we have a lot of news, though, that we're tracking, including former republican congressman denver riggleman making waves with his new book that is revealing some of what the committee found, that he says is important to understand even as he has clashed with some of the committee members. tonight i also have for you a special report on the rise of fascism at home and abroad, including new election results out of europe, that if you
haven't heard about them, they are super important. we begin with something that is not the committee's work. we talk about january 6th, but the work of the prosecutors in the criminal investigations. jury selection for the trial of oath keepers leader stuart rhodes and four other members of that militia for these involvement in that deadly insurrection. rhodes faces the most serious charge for anyone involved in this seditious conspiracy. it can carry up to 20 years. the government indicted these individuals and made its case. the rhodes and con spirit source planned to stop the peaceful transfer of power with multiple waves of force. they equipped themselves with weapons. they had combat tactical gear and they were all answering rhodes' call to take up arms. now all five of these individuals have plead not guilty, and they're legally presumed not guilty going through this trial. rhodes' attorney will argue that the plot, while there was coordination, they can't deny that, but the plot is something
they didn't view as illegal, that they wanted to take action if called upon in some quasi legal way if donald trump inadvocate martial law, the insurrection act, that kind of thing. "the new york times" describes the defense as novel and risky. "the times" says what to expect will be a government presentation with testimony from cooperating witnesses, reams of encrypted chats that rhodes and the other exchanged. and that this trial is a big one. so we talked about many different aspects of these probes. nicolle has tracked the accountability and how high it goes. no matter what happens, the trial, which could last many weeks for sedition is going to be one of the biggest criminal legal outcomes of this entire probe, regardless of what happens in the future. and that means there is a lot riding on it for the government, which says they have a strong case. let's get right into it with one
of our power panels. i'm joined by ryan reilly outside that federal courthouse. ryan goodman, a former special counsel at dod and nyu law professor, and the co-editor in chief for security is also one of his titles. everyone's got a lot of titles. kimberly atkins soares also here from "the boston globe." i want to welcome everyone. right to you, ryan. what's happening? >> so -- >> i'm so sorry, that's my fault. i want to go to ryan reilly at the courthouse, and i won't do it again. one of two ryans. go ahead, mr. riley. >> no worry. this is a big trial. it's going to take a very long time. so jury selection is going to take a very long time itself because you have to seat so many jurors. everyone is going to get those strikes, right? after they qualify jurors, everyone is going to get strikes. you have to get up to the big number in order to get a number of jurors that you're going to be able to qualify for such a large trial that could last over
six weeks. what i'm always fascinated in the january 6th jury panel selections is the cross section of d.c. that you get where you get everyone from someone who worked at on capitol hill who used to work on capitol hill who has a lot of friends who still work on capitol hill, who knew a lot of reporters on capitol hill on the one side. someone in the army who only moved to d.c. very recently and went on a tour of the capital as a kid. and then you get someone who -- doesn't really follow the news very closely, but does have a child who is incarcerated and has some experience with the criminal justice system that way. so you really do get a sense of how diverse of a background key folks in d.c. have and what they're bringing to this. what we see in the trials so date so far, jurors are taking their jobs very seriously. and there is a lot of the january 6th supporters who have been supporting some of the defendants will say that the juries are unfair here.
you really do see them taking their jobs seriously based on the jury notes you see in a lot of the other trials. when we get to the stage of this trial, i'm very curious to see what sort of notes we're going to get back. every indication that we've had so far is juries are taking their jobs very seriously and asking very inquisitive questions that really get to the heart of a lot of the charging issues at play here, ari. >> yeah, i appreciate your reporting there. remind us of the human aspect there. the jury is the bedrock and the check on government power in this case. ryan goodman, we don't see sedition cases very often in america. and the conversation lately, we mentioned hearing and the postponing of the january 6th hearing, the questions about georgia and whether they will go up the line. and yet as i mentioned, even if you don't go up the line, this would seem to be a pretty big deal, and the government definitely sees as a priority. >> yeah, i totally agree. i think that it's important to the historical record. if they succeed in a conviction,
then history will look back at the moment and understand it more firmly as having been a seditious conspiracy and an attempt to violently overthrow the government or interfere with the peaceful transfer of power. should it be very dramatic. "the times" is also reporting the leader of the oath keepers stewart rhodes is going to take the stand in his defense. i think at the end of the day, the government has an extraordinarily strong case against them. but i do think exactly as you put it, with a jury deciding whether or not beyond a reasonable doubt these individuals have been guilty of the conspiracy to overthrow the government is hugely important. we have three of the oath keepers have plead guilty to seditious conspiracy already, but this is much more important. >> kimberly, take a listen now to jamie raskin describes some of the related conduct. >> members of domestic violence extremist groups created an alliance both online and in person to coordinate a massive effort to storm, invade, and occupy the capitol.
by placing a target on the joint session of congress, trump had mobilized these groups around a common goal, emboldening them, strengthening their working relationships, and helping build their numbers. >> kimberly, there is an overlap here between the investigation and narrative, whatever you want to call it coming out of the committee, and what ryan goodman referred to which is this higher standard of proof that is going to be required in this trial. what do you see as important sort november the extra legal or nonlegal ways that this trial will matter and set a precedent of sorts, no matter what the verdict is? >> well, it is definitely going to matter. yes, this trial is wholly different from the congressional investigation, although they're both underlying the events underlying them both are the same. but i agree with ryan in this case is that it's very important to get a verdict for the american people to understand exactly what happened here. and i think that in this case,
sometimes these cases can be very complex, particularly criminal cases. but this one is pretty simple, as you laid it out in the beginning there was a coordinated effort on the part of rhodes and the oath keepers to create -- not just come to washington, not just come armed, but now create two separate teams to storm the capitol. and this defense that they're putting up saying no, we didn't think we were breaking the law. we thought that donald trump was going to invoke the insurrection act, and we were there to support him if we were called up in the event that that happened. it's not just risky, it's nonsensical. first of all, the president never invoked the insurrection act. secondly, even if he did, they are not members of the military or any authorized force that the president could authorize to be armed and to act on that behalf. if anything, by making that defense, they could be causing some trouble for donald trump. i don't know if he is being
investigated for, saying incitement, but if they are saying we did this, we committed this act, because donald trump told us to, that not only is a defense for them, it could be inculpatory. it is a very big trial and important, and we'll see what happens. >> i want to thank ron reilly who is posted up there doing the court reporting. so thank you. it will come back to you i imagine throughout the trial. i want to have ryan goodman take a listen to something that is coming out in the roger stone tapes. we got a clip. >> so that's the concept as it's been pitched to the president? >> yes, it has. i believe the president is for it. the obstacles are these lily-livered, weak-kneed bureaucrats in the white house counsel's office, and now they must be crushed because they told the president something that is not true. >> i'm curious, ryan goodman,
what you think the way the self-aggrandizing of some individuals play into this. it's rather remarkable because you can't even tell on the 5th that the morning of the 6th that they knew how far this was going to go. kimberly mentioned things that could be inculpatory. that's one thing they might point to. we were just messing around. we had no idea. and yet it seems some of the strongest evidence comes from the mouths of these individuals. >> yeah, i completely agree. and from the mouth of roger stone, it's really incredible. he is also obviously anticipating or celebrating violence in some of these videos that we're getting, the footage from the dutch filmmakers. and obviously not deterred by white house counsel or other lawyers telling them that their actions are illegal. so whatever performance he might be trying to put on, it certainly seems consistent within what transpires, in the
events of january 6th, in the attempt to overturn the election. and it's just remarkable to think that we're having this conversation, talking both about this historic case of a seditious conspiracy being brought against the oath keepers and there is roger stone on january 5th surrounded by oath keepers as bodyguards. maybe it's up to the justice department to finally tie any of these threads together. >> kimberly? >> yeah, i think that's exactly right. i mean, i think this is one of those cases that for folks like you and me who have been looking at this from the beginning, it seemed that all of the pieces were there, and it was almost frustrating when they weren't being put together in the way that they seem to be coming together now. i think both with these criminal prosecutions, with the criminal pleas that we've seen, as well as the work of the january 6th committee, it has sort of -- as well as the actions by the doj, it has sort of begun to crystallize in a way that makes it very clear what is happening,
and we have to hope that the courts follow through and that justice is done. >> and ryan, in the trial evidence, they have these messages we referred to that really show, a, a lot of violent talk leading up to it, civil war, et cetera. and then, b, a fairly in-touch operational mode. i can't imagine before cell phones that you would usually have this level of real-time coordination. how does that strengthen prosecutors' hands, even for example some jury who says well, was it an out-of-control riot? >> the encrypted messages that they have obtained are very significant. and i think will also puncture a hole in this line of defense that stewart rhodes is trying to put on. for example, in the indictment i felt one of the bombshell communications between the oath keepers is 1:30 p.m., stewart rhodes says essentially to his leadership cell that trump is not going to act. so it's now up to the patriots.
and then they stormed the capitol, the oath keepers do after that point. so it's like you were waiting or the insurrection act? we have your encrypted communications saying trump is not acting. it's up to us. i think that kind of damning evidence is going to give the prosecutors a very strong hand. and i agree with everything kimberly said as well. even if they were trying to mount and succeeded in mounting this line of defense, it's actually another defense at the end of the day, just the exact way in which kimberly put it. i think the two together, the communications we have, real-time communications with a defense that's not actually a defense, i think the writing is on the wall. but we'll have to see how the trial plays out. >> certainly. and if they achieve convictions, what does that do? in the government's eyes, what deterrence does that set for what we still hear around the country, sway lot of violent rhetoric and talk about the next one. >> that's i think should weigh
on everybody's minds. i think it's good to focus the ongoing threat, the rise of fascism around the world, as you indicated you're going to be talking about later in the show. >> yeah. >> and what we see in our own country. and this kind of a bringing the full force of the law to bear on this kind of militia group for trying to use violence to prevent american voters from choosing their leaders i think is extremely important to sending a signal to these kinds of actors and wanna-be's, now and in the future. >> go ahead, kimberly. >> i was going to say 20 years is a long time. that's a significant sentence, and that's what they could be looking at. so i agree with that. >> yeah. kimberly atkins, ryan goodman, i want to thank both you have for joining me here as we keep an eye on that trial and how important it is. i believe, kimberly, we'll see you later in the program. when we return, republicans on capitol hill are trying to undermine their own colleagues
in the january 6th committee. there is now a conspiracy theory that one kentucky congressman is pushing that got a rebuke from jamie raskin himself. you're going hear that new response. and another democrat who has been working on these far right talking points and a lot of the immigration issues is pete buttigieg. he went after desantis and abbott over what he says is a policy battle. he doesn't want to do the politics. but the policy is he says these people are playing with human lives. and as mentioned, hurricane ian is headed towards the gulf coast of florida. we have an update for you so you know exactly what is coming to that part of the country. stay with us. ith us
debates. 9/11 commission finds something, what should you do about it? but here we're seeing more attacks on the basic facts themselves. take thomas massie who was at a judiciary committee hearing and brought up this debunked conspiracy theory that man named ray epps, a trump supporter worked with the fbi to fake the attack. and 9/11, both national security disasters, this would be a little like saying the thing that everyone lived through and watched on video and was real was actually this fake conspiracy theory. they used to call those people truthers. here is congressman jamie raskin going after not only that lie, but what he says has been a parade of irresponsible lies over the past 14 months. >> it was vetoed by the cult leader donald trump, who said he wanted no investigation at all. that's your guy, donald trump said he wanted no investigation. and so you pulled the plug on the investigation you originally advocated because donald trump didn't want it. let's tell some truth. we ended up with a bipartisan
committee of people really interested in getting to the facts. and you know what? this is what you guys can't stand. america listened to it because we had real congressional hearings. unlike what goes on here the temper tam run th tantrums. >> jamie raskin laid it out. he knows the areas and is the democratic nominee for the senate, running in vermont. welcome back. >> good to be you. >> do you agree with what your colleague said? >> i do. you know what this epitomizes? donald trump began the lie, the stop the steal lie. it culminated in january 6th. but actually, that was the end of the beginning, because when you go back, even before he won in the hillary election, he was indicating he was going to contest the election because it was rigged. of course, he won, so he was okay with that outcome.
but then he began the same thing before the votes were even counted. so essentially, he has created this reality for a lot of folks who support him, right or wrong, including tommasi. tom massey. this is what the january 6th commission is helping us expose, that this was not a spontaneous event. it was not imaginary. we saw in the clip folks climbing into the capitol. but this was actually premeditated. it was planned. there was an effort to intimidate the vice president and electors, and they were also planning on getting false electors to be certified. >> also, in the angry conspiracy theory-driven lies, you can actually see the outlines of behalf is indefensible even in today's republican party. so as you know, let's say you're here and you walk out with one of these pens, or even a whole mug, and someone says congressman, i think you walked
out with the pen. your response might be so what if i did? it's not a big deal, right? when you're accused of, as they are, this insurrection, as they are, and they need to say somebody else did it. it was an initial effort, it was antifa dressed up in red caps, or in this case it's a hoax, in trutherisms that somehow the investigation, the commission, the reporting, the independent press, it's not workable on the right to say that happened and they did that. they don't want to own it. >> it's not workable with trump. essentially, what trump is doing is denying the reality of what we all saw with our own eyes and experienced. and the basic argument is that it's not a legitimate system. that's essentially what he is saying, unless he wins. and his supporters are buying that, in part because they're now led to believe by trump that anything is justified if it keeps the other side out of power. so the ends justify the means here. and it is catastrophic to the well-being of our democracy if
we don't accept what has always been our guide, and that's a peaceful transfer of power. >> right. then you go to the security that day. this is reporting new from the times that the committee has been debating whether highlight certain information about the attack. some members and staff want to hold a hearing that would just highlight the extensive work they've done investigating a law enforcement failure as you see here on the screen that related to the assault. others argue doing so would take attention off mr. trump. you don't have to be on the committee, but is this a legitimate challenge for democratic lawmakers that yes, you're going into the midterms. biden, your president seems to talking about trump and semi fascism is winning, is helpful to draw the contrast. don't you and this congress have an obligation to deal with everything the committee found security, even if, again, reading from this reporting, quote, unquote, it would take attention off trump? >> well, we do. but there really are two separate issues here. if there are law enforcement
failures, let's examine them so we can harden the defenses. but on the other hand, if there is an assault on the election outcome, there is an effort to really inside rekt -- have an insurrection to overturn the peaceful transfer of power, that is existential to the future of our democratic society. and that's true whether it's republicans or democrats who are coming to congress to have the electors validate what the citizens decided. that's the heart of this issue. and there's no truth with the trump presidency. he denies that it happened even though he was the one who executed it. there were a lot of people who were involved. but everything that is turning up with the january 6th investigation comes back to the person who was a central player, and that was donald trump. >> yeah. then we have these midterms. we're now really in the heart of it. you're running, as mentioned, for senate. what are voters talking to you about? is it all this d.c. stuff? is it also inflation? what else is in your view key to
your midterm messages because you're in them. >> there is two things. there is a lot of concern about the economy and inflation, climate change, about reproductive freedom. these are incredibly important issues. but in vermont, people have a real understanding that in order for us to resolve these challenges that society always faces, the tool we have to do it is a democracy. and a big issue of concern for many people in vermont is making certain that we restore and strengthen our democratic institutions. that's really what's at stake in this election. the people who get elected to congress and to the senate are going to be the electors in the next presidential election. >> right. that's fair. >> we have 100 -- over 100 candidates running on the republican side for u.s. senate, for congress, for governor, for secretary of state who's campaign is stop the steal. so what does that say what would happen. >> right. >> when they have responsibility to certify an election?
>> sitting with you about what you're talking to voters about. that's really happening now. and the question whether some of those individuals get their hands on partisan machinery of elections, if you won, of course, i don't know that you'd be as famous as the other vermont senator, bernie sanders, you handle that? >> we'll see. >> we'll see. >> i hope. >> or do you hope to eclipse him? he has a "saturday night live" impression and everything. >> bernie and i have been in politics forever. and he is not a shy guy. >> expound on that. >> i don't think you need no expounding when it comes to bernie. he says what's on his mind. >> would saw say if that's the slate, vermont would have a more progressive senator in him than you? >> no. i think progressive is standing up for democracy. bernie andri arm in arm. he has a unique style. he has made what i think is an extraordinary contribution to the democratic debate. he has moved working class issues front and center. >> clearly, and that has been tremendous. and that comes from his two
presidential campaigns. but we have worked together very closely from when i was in the state senate, he was in congress, and i look forward to working very closely with bernie in the senate. >> all very interesting, and we like to get you a little off script where we can. i've known you a long time in the news business. good to see you in person. >> thank you. >> congressman peter welch, a candidate for the u.s. senate. when we return, another democrat with a sharp response today, buttigieg pushing back on desantis and abbott. stay with us. on't always love their hair. let's face it. pets are gonna shed. every minute of every day. which is why we made bounce pet hair and lint guard with three times the pet hair fighting ingredients. just toss one sheet in the dryer to help remove pet hair from your clothes! so go ahead keep cuddling these guys. ♪♪ looking good starts in the dryer with bounce pet.
these are the kinds of stunts you see from people who don't have a solution. governor desantis was in congress. where was he when debating immigration reforms? it's another to just call attention to a problem because the problem is actually more useful to you than the solution, and that helps you call attention to yourself. >> it sounds like facts. and it's pete buttigieg, now u.s. transportation secretary going at some of the governors who have put forward migrants as political props or worse, potentially committing human rights abuse. the courts are actually going to be involved and look at that, playing with people's lives. you heard about the story, buttigieg making the point that at a basic level, even if you had a different immigration view, even if you said there had to be a different approach, why not find the strategy rather than trying to dunk on your people or trigger your other
opponents or all the amoral, unethical ways we have heard people explain the trolling activities outside of florida that affect real people's lives? we're joined by rick wilson, co-founder of the lincoln project, and kim atkins storr is back with us as promised. rick, the idea is to, quote, unquote make a point. what point do you see in that immigration gambit? >> look, i think the point he was making is i'm running for president in 2024. i'm going to primary donald trump. i'm going to go after him on the thing that he is strongest on in the minds of many of his voters, which is hostility to human rights and immigration, and he is going to outtrump trump in that space. and i think for desantis, it was a remarkably successful political strategy to open up his 2024 presidential campaign because in part, his audience consumes the cruelty by which that act was defined. >> well, plainly put. kim?
>> i think the same. but the interesting thing about this is in the desire to own the libs in a way that outown the lib morse than donald trump could, the stance reveals something else. they not only reveal the cruelty and the potential human rights violations, but it reveals that there could be solutions in the short-term for the border crisis while we wait for congress to come up with long-term solutions if states actually work together to help people who are seeking asylum move away from the border, move into communities, find jobs and find safety, which is exactly what they found in many of these quote, unquote blue states that these folks are trying to own, people like desantis. for example, even though laws may have been broken in him flying people from texas to martha's vineyard, they found -- >> kim, i'm going to let you
finish, as they say. but laws may have been broken could be the memoir of many trump era officials. >> it really could. it really could. we don't know exactly what these people were told to entice them to get on these buses or planes. but the truth is they landed in a place where they were able to find resource and help, the help and resources they're not able to get in places like texas, either because they're overrun or they're run by people who don't care to give it. >> so well put. rick, when you look at this as a factual matter, florida is a place with a long history of immigration-related issues, and communities diaspora communities with links abroad, i would say nuance, it's not monolithic, et cetera, it's got to be for some people a factual baseline. for desantis, when you look at the lack of scale of this stunt, it's not to make an analogy, rick, it's not like when bannon
and trump tried to do an actual travel ban and then you had it go into force, everyone thought of, that i would call that real policy. the court significantly narrowed it as illegal. but it was policy at a minimum. this isn't at a scale of doing anything what conservatives mike call excess or excessive immigration, what they would view as how do you tamp that down there. is a valid way to do that. does that factual limitation matter? or is this fundamentally, as you said, is this more just content? >> this is a post content, post ideological environment where everything is about the show. everything is about the spectacle. everything is about the phenomenon of watch ron desantis own the libs. watch fox turn this into one of their weekly moral crises. and the irony of this is, a, it happened in florida. where as you correctly point out we have an enormous diaspora of folks from around the world.
>> yeah. >> we have venezuelans and cubans and dominicans and haitians and folks from across the caribbean, across south and central and latin america and in every possible dimension in this state. and the irony of this is the folks who are fleeing from venezuela, these were legal asylum seekers. and they're being treated in this abusive and horrifying way, even though they're coming here, fleeing an abusive authoritarian socialistic dictatorship, which for normal republicans in florida those are the trigger words that send them out of their minds, and they lose their bearings instantaneously. and so it really is a deep irony. but i will say there is one other irony right now is the state spent $12 million so far on this program. he will continue to do it to get more headlines, and they spent weeks and weeks and weeks planning and plotting for this in the middle of hurricane season. now we have a cat 2, cat 3 bearing down on sarasota and southwest florida. and you know what?
weeks of planning for an immigrant spectacle has done nothing to get our property insurance fixed, and we live in florida you. ought to know what's coming in the fall, guys. >> all fair. kim, turning to the buttigieg of it all, i do want to be clear about him, just like i was with congressman welch, you know. let's hold everyone accountable. he is saying hey, i'm doing policy, i'm in this lane, and he is giving a policy-infused response, but also seems like he is coming out as the political attack dog of the administration in a government role. everyone out campaigning is campaigning. what do you think about that, his role as someone who once ran against biden and then backed him up, now is in the cabinet. and this, as we go into november and beyond, is this something we're going to see like buttigieg, harris or others try to sort of find their way into certain headlines because i tell you this, i'm old enough to remember when the transportation administration job was so boring, no shade, but it was considered so boring, nobody who
was running it. he's clearly trying to get into a desantis fight. your thoughts? >> yeah, i mean, clearly. look, he was the mayor of a fairly small city just a few years ago. so he's certainly politically ambitious if he's gone from there to becoming a household name, probably one of the most well-known transportation secretary we've had in a minute. so certainly, he is looking ahead at his political future. but i think also on this particular point, he's right. that was a gimme. you don't really have to have a political ambitions to point plainly what's happening with the immigration stance, as you correctly frame them that is happening at the border with no intention on actually helping these people, and quite possibly harming them. and trying to do something. and i just can't underscore this enough. the whole point was the idea that would get the applause lines by desantis is hey, we're going to send these folks up to the north and let them deal with
them, as if them is some awful problem. and it's shown that it's not. these are people in need of help, and in most of these cases, whether here in d.c. or up in martha's vineyard, they received it. so it failed, but it's still winning with his audience. >> yeah. >> i think that's something that the secretary was just pointing out. >> all fair points. and to bring us brack we started, kim, if you want to go ahead bylaws may have been broken right now, decide later if that's a special or not, it was your memorable phrase and we want to mark that today, among other things. kim, rick, thanks to both of you. >> thanks, ari. we mention this news of hurricane ian nearing the florida gulf coast. we have an update on than for you later this hour. a live check in with bill karins, more politics, and i'll tell you what is coming up on the 6:00 p.m. eastern edition of "the beat." i'll be live with you and we're cooking up something special. a lot to get to so stay with us. .
once upon a time, at the magical everly estate, landscaper larry and his trusty crew... were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending... for almost everyone. hurricane ian is making it closer to the coast of florida. forecasting shows the storm is expected to make landfall somewhere near venice. the most recent mapping predicts ian will restrengthen through tomorrow and thus could potentially land as a category 4 storm. 2.5 million residents in florida already under some type of evacuation order. officials urging residents do not underestimate the storm. get out before things get worse. if you are in florida and can
hear this or know someone, that is what the officials are saying. you'll want to keep an eye on that and do as you are told and advise before those options dissipate. for more expertise, we turn to nbc news correspondent steve patterson live in st. petersburg, florida, and nbc meteorologist bill karins with what we can expect as ian approaches. steve? >> ari, the calm before the storm here growing a whole heck of a lot less calm by the seconds. the winds picking up. the surf, the tide coming in more violently than it was even just a few minutes ago. but you're right. the mandatory evacuations now under way for millions here in florida. hundreds of thousands up here in tampa bay. because this area is so susceptible to what's called the storm surge. that is when that storm brings the tide in more violently, the shelf here, which is basically the sea floor, is more shallow. it is wider, which essentially dumps water on to the shore.
we could see a storm surge in this area anywhere from 5 to 10 feet, which has the potential to be catastrophic, because so much here has been built up in the last 100 years or so. that's the last time that we've seen a direct hit in tampa bay. that's the worry from officials, although officials do believe they have a handle on the situation for right now. fema has been activated. the national guard with about 5,000 guardsmen in florida activated as well. we've seen utility trucks roll through this area, hot and heavy in case there are widespread power outages. but the warnings, as you mention up front, are to get out of this area as soon as possible. we saw people earlier sandbagging, boarding up their homes, doing as much as they can to try to protect their property. but the overriding message from federal, state, local officials is that you have to leave because soon you won't be able to. and if you stick here, if you decide you want the ride out the storm, they may not be able to get first responders to an area like this in the next few hours
because they don't want the risk their safety as well. those are the warnings. those are the stakes. ari, back to you. >> thank you, steve. stay safe to echo. and reiterate what you and the officials are saying, if you're in florida, now is the time to act. bill? >> they don't have much time left, either. after dark, the conditions are going to start getting worse and worse. so, yeah, it's preparations are done. and if you're still in the area and maybe i'll ride it out, maybe i shouldn't, i just heard it's going to be a cat 4, i'm scared, leave. get out while you can. this forecast did change today. we were expecting changes because of this angle of approach to florida and how skinny the peninsula is. a slightest wobble or shift is the difference between a tampa or fort myers. we've wobbled a little towards fort myers during the day today. that's why you're going hear a lot more about the problems from sarasota, to cape coral, into fort myers itself than you are from sarasota north wards.
it's a category 3. if it only gets 10 miles per hour stronger, it is a category 4. it may be a category 4 at landfall, or it may be a strong end category 3. damage is going to be about the same either way. it's just a number. as far as timing, look at this. with the earlier push towards the southwest coast of florida, we're talking landfall as we go throughout the middle of the afternoon that means the eye wall will probably be moving onshore about lunchtime. that's why tomorrow tomorrowing is too late. hurricane-force winds winds will arrive on the coast starting at daybreak tomorrow. if anyone is thinking of getting out you have until about midnight tonight. that's it. then it's still going to be a category 1 hurricane right over the top of orlando. i was in orlando in the eye of charlie in 2004. and that also made landfall in the exact same place. this is identical to a hurricane category 4 strength charlie in $2004, which was a multibillion weather disaster in the sunshine state. some people didn't have power for two to three weeks that is going to repeat tomorrow into
thursday. storm surge always kills the most people. water by far more than wind. the areas of greatest concern are going to be just south of where we get that landfall position. so if we bring that storm in around inglewood or ven sis, unfortunately, the whole charlotte bay here and down to beautiful captiva and sanibel island, the fort myers area, you would be the peak storm surge, up to about 12 feet. picture you're at the beach at high tide and you add 12 feet on top of that, that's how high the water levels are going to be inland. far inland, fort myers is extremely flat. so that's the biggest concern we have right now. getting people out of those evacuation orders. then storm surges up around areas of georgia and jacksonville beach, up to 4 to 6 feet as a storm. that's not going to be fun either. as far as the wind damage, now that we're expecting a category 4 or 3 landfall, we're expecting a lot of roof damage, tree damage extreme. these are some of the estimated peak gusts possible. 120 to about 130 miles per hour
in that inland swath right where it makes inland. the winds might be ail will lighter around fort myers, maybe, but you're still going to get the worst storm surge out of this. and the power outage potential, it's from sarasota straight through orlando there is a lot of trees in orlando. and even a strong tropical storm will drop a someone's going to get two feet of rain after this. yes, florida is a lot better than other areas of the country but two feet is two feet. eventually it will overwhelm and there will be some flooding. on top of that there have already been three reports of tornadoes today. this is as bad as it gets going three or four days ago we were going what is the worst case scenario it would be probably a category three or four in southwest florida. that is exactly what we're going to see happen tomorrow.
stay safe. nicolle wallace is out. that's why i am here with you and we've been working on something very special coming up in the next hour of the beat and speaks to the problem we are facing in america. what do you do when the people running from office want to present prevent you from ever voting again in the future. what do you do when donald trump's big like because an actual agenda item for the whole party and wide when the right wing libertarians arrive in america and across america and republicans are cheering that. we're talking now about neo-fascism and the party that just won an election in italy that traces its roots to mussolini's national fascist party. this is not a drill. this is real. next hour going to break it all down, how it connects to america and maga and why some republicans in america are
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