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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  September 27, 2022 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> i have four dogs, i got my girls, so going to do the right thing and just get away and come back and hopefully it's not damaged. >> they're predicting a lot of water. i live in south tampa. so it's a flood zone area. >> this one feels different. >> yes. >> florida prepares for a monster storm, with landfall
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expected tomorrow. governor ron desantis is going to be put to the test, forced to actually do his job. when he's used to spending most of his time hanging out on fox news and owning the libs. >> the approaching hurricane is also changed the january 6th committee's plans. we have our hands on some documentary footage of roger stone laying out trump's plot to steal the election. which the committee is expected to show when the hearing is rescheduled. >> also tonight, the senate takes up the electoral count act to protect democracy. and we're going to try to answer this question of why republican lawmakers still genuflect to trump and promote his lies. >> we begin with florida, bracing for ian, a major hurricane that could submerge large portions of the gulf coast. and it will be a test of leadership. governing, you see, is hard. it's unsexy, and not always television friendly. and governing through a crisis, well, that is where the
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proverbial rubber meets the road. president biden has had to juggle a bunch of competing crises while still trying to deliver for the american people. that's the executive gig. today, the juggling act was on full display. biden spent the day talking up his plan to lower drug costs and bolster social security, unveiling a plan to end hunger by 2030 and reaching out to florida mayors ahead of hurricane ian's landfall. >> i told each one of them in my conversation separately, whatever they need, i mean this sincerely, whatever they need, contact me directly. and they know how to do that. i have a lot of personnel down there already. we're here to support them in every way we can. >> on the other side of the spectrum, while biden has been grinding out the sometimes thankless job of governing, republicans have been waging these giddy little culture wars to own the libs. while ignoring their citizens'
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basic rights and needs. take for example mississippi governor tate reeves, who told a crowd of supporters how thrilled he was to leave jackson, the state capital, in the midst of a devastating collapse of the city's water system. this after he spent years bragging about how successful he's been at blocking funds to fix the water crisis in the past. then there's book banning virginia governor glenn youngkin who has drawn massive protests and walk-outs by high schools over his use of his executive power to force schools to out transgender's birth sexes against their will. that's the priority of a whole entire governor? in florida, governor ron desantis has spent the majority of his term waging wars against disney while openly running for president on the side, stigging florida taxpayers with a $2 trillion tax bill in the process and attacking books and masks and venezuelan migrants who aren't even in his state, flying them from texas to massachusetts, dpen, at florida
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taxpayer expense. maybe even breaking the law in the process. let's be clear, he is doing this as his audition to have joe biden's job. is that what voters hire an executive for? while desantis is fighting with mickey and scoring hits on fox news, florida teachers are flying his state. climate change is ravaging the coast, and the home insurance market is literally collapsing leaving thousands of floridians in danger of having no coverage for their homes when natural disasters like hurricane ian strike. and that last bit is important. because preparing for and dealing with hurricanes is kind what florida governors do. and making sure that people have insurance, it is kind of key. right now, ian is a category 3 hurricane, curving its way up the gulf coast of florida. it's expected to strengthen into a catastrophic category 4 over the warm gulf waters with anticipated landfall tomorrow evening. the entire gulf coast of florida could suffer devastating storm surges and rain. both mandatory and voluntary
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evacuations are in place for more than 2.5 million people in multiple counties where schools have already been closed. president biden has preemp skly declared a state of emergency and already sent aid. >> i directed my team to surge federal assistance there before the storm hit. fema is already deployed 700 personnel to florida. and the governor has activated 5,000 state national guard with another 2,000 guard coming from other states. fema is also proposing and prepositioning 3.5 million liters of water, 3.7 million meals. and hundreds of generators. >> which again, is literally the job. joining me now from anna maria island on florida's gulf coast is kerry sanders. i'm also joined by democratic pollster and strategist fernand
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amandi, and general honore. kerry, i want to start with you. talk about how things look where you are and how bad local folks expect the storm to be by tomorrow. >> joy, i'm way down here by water's edge to share a feeling. the water here that i have my feet in, it's warm. in fact, there are parts of the gulf of mexico which are feeding ian that are 89 degrees. so we know that a hurricane gets its strength from the warm water, and at 89 degrees. that's like throwing gasoline on a fire. it is just incredibly warm. at least for in some cases five degrees warmer than we would typically have. so that's why we're going to see perhaps even more of a rapid intensification of the hurricane. where i'm here on anna maria island, pretty much a ghost town. same thing down on sanibel island, captiva island, on some of the smaller islands, that's
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because they have these mandatory evacuations because they know in addition to the wind that will be whipping, there will be something called storm surge. so you see the water here behind me right now. the wind will be so strong at 100-plus miles per hour, it blows the waster, and that water comes up like this, and it sort of kind of goes in a dome, but it has nowhere to go, so it just keeps traveling. and the prediction is that the storm surge could be as high as 10 feet. so right now, i'm at sea level. i'm 5'5". ten feet is way up there. as we get closer to the homes, some of the homes are up maybe about 2, 2 1/2 feet, so it's possible here and on other islands like sanibel, captiva, it's possible that the water will actually wash over the islands. so there's a great amount of concern. the authorities said got to get out, mandatory evacuations. we know some people have decided to stay behind. and the police and fire say look, if you stay behind and
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you're in the middle of a hurricane and you do dial 911, nobody is coming to the rescue, joy. >> yeah, real quick, to stay with you for a second. anything who lived in florida for any length of time and i lived there 14 years, where i metd you, my friend, you have to say andrew. this was such a catastrophic change in everything about florida. and jeb bush was sort of made by his handling of hurricanes. can you just talk briefly about how important managing hurricanes is to the job of being governor in florida? >> during andrew, it was a complete failure on all levels in terms of the response afterwards. especially with fema, the federal emergency management agency. fema, which is supposed to, and this cay, and we have seen in recent other hurricanes, have gotten professional. at the time, it was like a political dumping ground where they just gave people political favors, stuck them into these jobs. they didn't know anything about responding.
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it's now very much a professional organization, and we know, for instance, kevin guthrie, who does the state version of that here in florida, that they have experience. kevin in fact worked at pasco county, he's dealt with hurricanes and also dealt with sinkholes. he knows what has to happen when you respond in an emergency. i think what we just heard the president talk about prepositioning water and food and generators, that is pretty much very much a professional operation as opposed to what we once had. lessons learned from andrew, and of course, the hurricane, if it does come in just a little south of here, it was 2004 when category 4 hurricane charlie came in, so there are lot of people who remember that and there are a lot of people who say they will work forward from those memories of how to better respond to this hurricane. joy. >> indeed. kerry sanders, thank you very much. stay safe. really appreciate you. the other sort of one-word name you can say that everyone understands is katrina. general russel honore, people
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know you from having been in the middle of that. talk about just the level of government sort of intersectional cooperation between the state and the federal government that is critical and crucial to doing this right. >> yes. on any given day, a storm like this could break and overmatch the state's capacity. it can overmatch the federal government capacity. and we have to work in harmony. and we put a lot of money into federal government to help the states respond when they become overwhelmed. and by the fact the governor asked and the president has declared this a major disaster, and fema is already sending into region four, with the governor from atlanta to florida, joining a very experienced team in the state of florida who since andrew has a mark point, another one was wilma, and another was
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katrina, have developed procedures. all the governor has to do is read the script, and he's doing a darn good job of doing that right now. they have procedures in florida to protect the people as best they can from a storm this magnitude. but i think, joy, this will set a new bar, something they have not seen or america has not seen before if this storm comes in the way it's predicted. >> and i lived through wilma, so i definitely remember that. it's terrifying to remember that. i want to bring you in fernand. today, ron desantis did not have room to troll or play troll. he has to play governor now. here he is in part of the press conference about an hour ago, a little over an hour ago. this is his press conference talking about the federal response. >> we feel like we have a good relationship with fema. i'm happy to brief the president if he's interested in hearing what we're doing in florida. my view on all this is like you got people's lives at stake. you have their property at
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stake. and we don't have time for pettiness. we have to worth together to make sure we're doing the best job for them, so my phone line is open. >> i mean, that happens to be true. over the course of the last -- of this summer, we have watched the florida insurance market collapse. we have watched a lot of drama coming out of that governor's office that has been around immigration, even though florida is not even close to the state with the most migrants or the most people who are seeking asylum. florida is like way at the bottom, below ohio. and yet the governor has been just fixated on this one thing, on immigration. is it arguable, if this doesn't go well, and we pray it goes well, for you down there, my friend, as well, that he's now really in a spotlight for the actual job he was hired for, not for the trolling. >> yeah, how shameful to hear those words, too little too late, joy, because as you said, all of us here in florida in this very ominous and sobering moment, we're on the brink of not one but two catastrophes.
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first, the catastrophe of ian, which god forbid, have any impact on human life and folks in the impact of the storm, including my parents and many of my friends up and down i-4 through the panhandle. the problem here is the second catastrophe, which was totally preventable. that is, as you said, a property insurance catastrophe that ron desantis and the republican legislature in the state have conscientiously avoided doing a single thing about. they have been rolling the dice, and they have been luckyover the last couple years. we haven't had a major storm, but now we have a cat-4 catastrophe knocking on our door, and after the damage to life and property comes the accounting. we don't have a private insurance market. they're fleeing the states. rates are skyrocketing, joy, and despite the begging and pleading of members of the democratic side of the legislature, even some republican senators who said please, we have to solve this property insurance crisis,
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ron desantis did nothing. partially because he's in the pocket of the insurance industry, but even state senator jeff brandeis, who is a republican from st. petersburg, the area in the direct line of the strike, said they did nothing. they didn't do nearly enough, and now the people of florida are going to face this catastrophe not once but twice because ron desantis and the republicans that have been in charge of the state for 28 years, joy, have done nothing. it is shameful. it is unacceptable, it is disqualifying, and as you said, governing is hard. trolling is easy. they chose to troll when they could have governed. >> and russel honore, 2 million floridians are on the move. we don't know if they're leaving the state or where they're going to move to. it's a bit ironic you might have floridians having to pour over the borders and go north and get out of the state of florida in the exact same crisis we have been talking about on a trolling level in that state for a long time. what do you think the federal
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government should prepare itself for if you're talking about 2 million floridians on the move and some of them actually have to leave the state. what kind of coordination needs to be happening right now in these southern states to prepare, because remember, houston received hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands of people who had to flee louisiana because of katrina. >> well, earlier today, i think the federal government needs to prepare some ships to come in behind the storm. the national guard has done a good job. they have some helicopters and other national guard units and we need federal helicopters on standby, and the department of defense needs to buy into that and follow hurricanes like this in. this is a scenario, a nightmare scenario, joy, that we have been planning for since i got in this business and most of my time in the army, that a major storm like this would hit miami is where we thought it would go. now it's going across the entire
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state. that needs to be dealt with. and all the pieces are there. the team knows what to do, but the overmatch of the capacity locally will soon be overmatched if the storm does as it is predicted to happen. so that has to be worked out. and the role of the governor right now is easy, joy. all he has to do is get on tv and tell people stuff. the test for this governor will be in recovery. when they make decisions where the money goes and how it goes. that will be the real test. recovery is a living hell dealing with the federal government and the bureaucracy. we'll see what kind of governor he is during the recovery. >> and be careful about attacking people who have to move to save their own lives and safety, because you never know who it's your people that have to move, when it's your people who have to migrate, when it's your people who have to get on that road. so just a thought. fernand amandi, please stay
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safe. retyrant lieutenant general russel honore, thank you. >> up next, no hearing tomorrow for the january 6th committee, which faces major decisions on its next moves. "the reidout" continues after this.
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tomorrow's much anticipated return of the house january 6th committee, the first hearing in nearly two month, has been postponed, as hurricane ian
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advances toward the gulf coast of florida. the storm has halted what trump and his maga supporters in congress could not. a series of highly effective hearings laid out by member jamie raskin as he rebutted republican criticism last week. >> you pulled the plug on the investigation you originally advocated, because donald trump didn't want it. let's tell some truth. we're talking about truth, i'm giving you the truth. again, you guys boycotted it because you wanted to put pro-insurrection members on the committee. and so we ended up with a bipartisan committee of people really interested in getting the facts, and you know what, this is what you guys can't stand. america listened to it because we had real congressional hearings. and 25, 30 million americans watching because we told the truth about donald trump's assault on democratic institutions and the right to vote in america. maybe you cant handle the truth, but that's the reality and nobody has laid a glove on any
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of the testimony that has come out during those hearings. >> you can't handle the truth, said jamie raskin. we have learned among the tranche of new evidence we're likely to see when the hearings are rescheduled is documentary footage from trump's former adviser and long time friend roger stone. filmed by danish filmmakers in the months leading up to the attack on the capitol. that includes a clip where stone seemingly predicts four months before the election that they would never accept the results if they lost. >> what they're assuming is that the election will be normal. the election will not be normal. oh, these are the california results? sorry, we're not accepting them. we're challenging them in court. if the electors show up, armed guards will throw them out. i'm the president. [ bleep ] you. i'm challenging all of it, and the judges we're going to are judges i appointed to. >> that clip is a reminder that the idea that an election can be
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overturned is a long standing belief of roger stones since he was involved in a nearly identical scheme in 2000. stone then used those claims of mass hundreds of -- to mass hundreds of operatives on miami-dade county, demanding an end to the state-wide recount on george w. bush's behalf, to take away from the legitimate state-wide recount and put bush in office. this adds to the many moving parts for the committee to contend with before it completes its work. it's expected to interview ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, in the coming weeks. they must decide whether to issue subpoenas to trump and former vice president mike pence. it also has yet to settle on whether to enforce subpoenas issued to republican members of congress who have refused to cooperate with the inquiry. joining me is former u.s. senator doug jones of alabama who is a distinguished senior fellow at the center for
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american progress, and neal katyal, former acting solicitor general. roger stone, we have done this -- talked about this on the show before, is an interesting character because he had exactly the same idea 20 years ago and so did john eastman. this idea that you just simply say, we won, and then you effectuate maybe even a little violence to see to it that no one really challenges you. let me play another clip from him. this is from november 1st, before the election. more roger stone. >> let's hope we're celebrating. i suspect it will be -- i really suspect it will still be up in the air. when hat happens the key thing to do is claim victory. possession is nine-tenths of the law. no, we won. [ bleep ] you. you're wrong, [ bleep ] you. >> and his response to that clip, his response to it today is, the lesson of 2000 when the election was in dispute, james a. baker got george bush to declare victory. he was considered a genius.
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i suggest the same thing and they say that's considered criminal conduct. is there a difference? >> oh, yeah. he is anything but a genius, joy. this guy is letting a camera crew follow him around and videotape him in the weeks leading up to the january 6th riot. even if the film doesn't show he directly committed a crime, i have no doubt that it's going to have intensely valuable insight for both the january 6th committee and federal investigators. and i think that roger stone is likely to soon join steve bannon and the esteemed club of trump henchmen who received pardons for their criminal convictions only eventually to commit further crimes. so this clip you just showed is really good evidence that trump and his allies have prepped their election denial strategies far before the election ever took place. you know, trump's whole claims, there weren't genuine concerns about election fraud. this was a preplanned thing in
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the playbook, a desperate, undemocratic attempt to cling to power. >> right, and the thing is, senator jones, it was fairly -- you looked at the polling, it seemed pretty clear to me that joe biden was going to win, and there is some reporting out there that trump was concerned that he was going to lose. so it's kind of hard to claim that they had a genuine belief that there was some sort of fraud when they're saying before the election even takes place, a month and then two days before, we're just going to say we won. meaning it doesn't matter if he won. >> i think you're absolutely right, joy. to me, everything -- the first thing that hit me when i was hearing all of that is these guys knew they were going to lose. they were setting up what is going to happen after they lose. and neal is absolutely right. the fact they thought they were going to lose, the fact they probably knew they were going to lose, and setting this all up is pretty damning evidence about the plans that were going to be put in place going forward than i think the january 6th committee has done a pretty good
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job of putting some compelling evidence forth connecting all those dots. >> and neal, this is a question i have. does the committee need to prove that in addition to knowing they were going to lose and having a plan in place, this eastman style memorandized plan to sort of play with the electors. did trump need to also know that you had proud boys and oath keepers and three percenters meeting the day before january 6th on january 5th in a garage in d.c., and that they had violence in mind? does the committee need to make that connection, that these guys, you see them there, oath keepers, proud boys, enrico tarrio on the end, the lady in front from the oath keepers, does he need to know they also planned to use violence in order for him to be guilty of seditious conspiracy? >> no, i mean, it's what we call in the law gravy. it's like, if that evidence does exist, that establishes a
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seditious conspiracy or at least a conspiracy to commit violence between trump himself and the proud boys who are going on trial right now as we speak. but there are other conspiracies that the january 6th committee has been investigating as well as federal and state investigators, joy, including this whole fake electors plot that john eastman and others cooked up. and there doesn't need to be any overlap between the two. the rule of law going back to the supreme court case of 1943. you can have multiple different conspiracies. prosecutors just need to prove one. and at this point, donald trump is facing many, many different investigations into many conspiracies. >> yeah, absolutely. and just one last note for you, senator jones. so chris kievs, the guy who got $3 million up front, he was smart to get his money because trump doesn't usually pay his lawyers, he got there 3 million retainer to lead trump's legal team. he's now not the leader.
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what do you make of the fact he's essentially been demoted after they decided who they wanted, they picked judge dearie as they choice to be special master, and turns out, surprise surprise, he's a real judge. and he's acting like a real judge. and he's not helping them. >> well, you know, look, i don't think it's any surprise that donald trump doesn't have immediate positive results and when he doesn't get them, he'll go somewhere elsewhere he thinks he can get those positive results. i think the strategy coming out of mar-a-lago and some of the other cases, by the way, i have been baffled by. including the fact that these guys can't put at least some kind of controls on their client, that he doesn't talk. some of the things he said to sean hannity was really damning the other day. so you know, sometimes you just have to clean sweep, start with a fresh team, and move on and hope the damage can be resurrected. >> i'm going to nominate chris as one of the who won the week finalists because he got $3
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million to not have to work, and he didn't have to be a good enough work to keep his client off tv. he might have just got himself a free $3 million. thank you both very much. in a rebuke to donald trump, mitch mcconnell has come out in support of the electoral reform act, which would assert the vice president does not have the power to change electoral votes.
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a win for democracy appears to be in sight. the senate is voting on a bill that would be the first legislative move to prevent another january 6th. the electoral count reform bill clarifies the role of congress in certifying presidential election results. in short, making it harder to steal a presidential election. today, bipartisan effort got a major boost when mitch mcconnell endorsed it. >> strongly support the modest changes that our colleagues in the working group have fleshed out after literally months of detailed discussions. i'll proudly support the legislation, provided that nothing more than technical changes are made to its current form. >> huh. seven senate republicans voted yes to report this bill to the full senate. senator ted cruz, of course, was
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the lone no vote, calling it bad for democracy. okay, ted, which brings us to a puzzling but important question for our democracy. we understand why the republican base is determined to keep donald trump in office forever. i mean, he feeds their sense of entitlement and grievance, makes them feel like victims and triumphant over the libs at the same time. why are republican elected officials, some of whom despise trump, who believed his impeachment was warranted, why do they keep going along with him and his big lie? just last week, a house version of this very electoral reform bill passed. democrats unanimously supported it and were joined by just nine republicans. enough to put on two hands. none of those nine will be members of congress next year. this was their chance, their opportunity to rid themselves of trump. by securing elections, to prevent stolen elections. if that isn't a vote for democracy, we really just don't know what is. yet so many of those republicans, 203 of them, couldn't support it. leaving us with the perennial question, why? joining me now is former
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republican congressman carlos curbelo of florida, who is now a msnbc political analyst. thank you for being here. explain it to me like i'm 5, because i understand why mitch mcconnell voted for this bill. i totally get it. it seems surprising but i'm not surprised. we know from lots and lots of reporting, names he's called him, mitch mcconnell despises donald trump. he was a means to an end. he was a means to get his magical judges on the court. he got his judges. he doesn't need trump anymore. i understand mitch mcconnell. he's a ruthless person. does ruthless stuff, but he really doesn't like trump. there are other people in that same category, representative curbelo. why do they not take easy opportunities to rid themselves of this man? >> joy, the difference between mitch mcconnell and many other republicans is that mitch mcconnell, aside from not liking donald trump, is also not afraid of donald trump. he's one of the few republicans whose has actually stood up to
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trump on a number of occasions, not all, but certainly on a number of occasions. >> for like four seconds. >> the problem in the house is that a lot of these republicans operate in fear. they're constantly looking over their shoulder, hoping that donald trump will not show up in their districts to support a primary opponent. so it's very difficult to lead when you're afraid. i do think, joy, that once this bill gets out of the senate, if it comes back to the house, it should get more republican support. but without question, reforming the electoral count act to prevent the kind of disaster we had on the 6th of january of '21 should be a fairly easy issue to get to yes on. >> it should be. right, because do you want kamala harris to have the power to overturn the election? if you don't support this, you're saying that lady can do whatever she wants. anyway, let's move on. he is not afraid of donald trump.
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here's matt gaetz on steve bannon's show, because of course he is, saying what he thinks the priorities should be if republicans take control of the house. here he is. >> if we don't engage in miempt inquiries to get the documents and the testimony and the information we need, then i believe that our voters will feel betrayed, and we can do that without the senate and without the white house. and that's why it should be investigations first, policy, bill making, to support the lobbyists and the pacs, as a far, far diminished priority. >> carlos curbelo, these people get paid six figures of taxpayer money to legislate, and he says, bill making to support -- bill making is a diminished priority. we just need to impeach biden for whatever. it doesn't matter what. it doesn't matter we have no chance of convicting him in the senate. just do it because our base just needs the drugs. it sounds like a crack dealer. is that really what it is, that
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they are just performing for the most bananas part of their base all the time? >> that's what he's doing. joy, this is a problem for house republican leadership for two reasons. number one, house republican leaders have told their members please only talk about three issues in the last few weeks of this campaign. inflation, immigration, and crime. they think those are the issues they can ride to victory. clearly, matt gaetz is not following those instructions. he's in another world. secondly, if republicans do win a slim majority in the house, kevin mccarthy and his lieutenants are go to have to find a way to include matt gaetz in their coalition because they're not going to have very many votes to spare if he wants to become speaker. so this is a big problem for republicans, and what makes a problem even bigger for them is that people like matt gaetz really don't care what they think. >> no, they don't. and by the way, the other thing, the other sort of occam's razor
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answer is their real agenda, rick scott has told you and lindsey graham has told you what it is, basically control women, make them give birth, and destroy social security and medicare, and they don't want anybody to know that. former republican congressman carlos curbelo, it's a puzzle. thank you. >> jury selection began today for the day -- in the trial of oath keeper leader elmer rhodes, he calls himself stewart. and four other members of the militia for their actions leading up to and on january 6th. they are charged with seditious conspiracy or trying to overthrow the u.s. government. we'll be right back. s. governme. we'll be right back. don't mind me. i'm just the flu. i'm quite harmless, really. and when people ask, “but aren't you linked to dangerous flu complications, like pneumonia, heart attack, and hospitalizations?”
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jury selection today began in the trial of oath keepers leader elmer rhodes who calls himself stewart to sound cooler, and four of his associates for their role in the january 6th insurrection. the five are facing charges of seditious conspiracy, the most serious crime leveled by the justice department in the capitol insurrection probe. the judge is working to winnow down a pool of 150 perspective jurors using written and in person questioning. in the case of january 6th, perhaps the biggest threat to our democracy the country has ever seen, what does an impartial jury look like? is it possible? according to nbc's reporting from the courtroom, out of that pool of 150, 45% said they hadn't watched the january 6th committee hearings. and 40% hadn't ever heard of the oethd keepers. one juror was disqualifying for
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answering i think january 6th is one of the most single most treasonous acts in our country. another potential juror who was struck told january 6th was an insurrection by far right groups intent on taking over the capitol and beginning an insurrection. joining me is glenn kirschner. give us a flavor of this. those two jurors, i think, speak for a lot of people probably watching the show right now. how many of the perspective jurors did they speak for? >> it's an open question because they're only midway through jury selection. they're trying to qualify a group of 45 potential jurors and then once those 45 are qualified, each side will get a series of what are called preempterary strikes where they can strike anyone at all except for race, ethnicity, or gender. people often believe we try to select jurors who know nothing
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about a case. and in a high profile case, that's difficult. in the highest profile case, and this is one of them, the seditious conspiracy, the attack on the u.s. capitol, it's really hard to fete people who haven't heard something about it. but the key is not whether they heard about what happened on january 6th at the u.s. capitol or not, frankly, i question the fitness of somebody to serve who knows nothing about the attack on our capitol. but the key is, if they know something about it, as long as they can swear under oath to the judge that they can put all of that out of their minds and decide the case based solely on what they see unfold in the courtroom, that's what makes a qualified juror. >> let me ask you this. if you're going through and you're a prosecutor in this case, are you looking for people, let's say, of police officers in their family, does that help or hurt? there were police officers on both sides of this thing. a guy just got sentenced to
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seven years for what he did, the beating and tasing, almost killing officer michael fanone. he got a seven-year sentence. some of the people who were doing the things done to officer fanone were also cops. are you looking for people who it is being in d.c. many are close to the capitol and we have some feelings about the capitol. what are you looking for as a prosecutor? >> this may sound like a trite answer but i'm looking for jurors who can be fair. because just as a defendant is entitled to a fair trial, the people of the united states are also entitled to a fair trial. in a very real sense, as a federal prosecutor for 30 years i spoke for the people of the united states in criminal prosecutions. so, was i looking for a juror who is a little bit more pro law enforcement and anti-law enforcement? of course i was but it has to be within reasonable bounds. for example, every jury that is
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selected has is asked a question, can you judge the credibility of the testimony of a police officer fairly just as you would judge anyone else's testimony? and you have to wait to hear the response from the juror. and you know, jury selection isn't intensely individual endeavor. you are eyeballing every single juror as you are asking them the questions. not trying to only gauge their fitness but their sincerity when they're answering these questions. >> let me ask you this. this is about the defense. the new york times reporting that lawyers for the five defendants are set to argue for the trial that the oath keepers were waiting on january six is donald trump as president to invoke the insurrection, actor revolutionary era law the grounds the president -- and a claim that? they were a real militia, they don't work for the government, they don't even work for the army. with that even matter? >> you know, sometimes defendants have a good legal defense and sometimes they have a good factual defense.
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the oath keepers on trial have neither. it feels like they are trying to argue they were following donald trump's orders and in the sense they were, because donald sets ordered an attack on the capitol to start the certification of joe biden's win. but they're not even arguing that directly. we thought we might be enlisted into assisting the government if donald trump invoked the insurrection act. but set that aside for a minute. that is not even a legal thing. but they weren't even following orders. they were hoping they might get some orders that they couldn't follow which also might not been a defense. i think you know what they're trying to do joy? i think they're hoping to confuse just one or two jurors into hanging up the jury, because based on what i have seen thus far they really don't have much of a defense. >> it's like, we are brownshirts. that doesn't seem like a really strong defense? i don't think that sounds good. let's talk about this. the sentences that we have seen,
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as you mentioned you did have won january six defendant defendant get 70 or. some of the sentence of seem light, seven months ten months probation they don't seem alone. you're starting to see more longer sentences for people who were violent. when you look at sentences that were shorter than what the government wanted, the government said ten years, to get 70. you think these sentences are in line with what seems reasonable for you? >> these are really difficult to gauge because sentencing is also individual. we have to take the history of the defender, any expression of remorse, and whether it is just legitimate or not, or just putting on a show for the judge. i do expect as we move through the more serious cases, and as we move up into the command structure of the insurrection, i'm hoping that these sentences will increase. >> one would think. glenn kershaw, always a pleasure, thank you my friend. the war is not going well in russia, now comes sham referendum's, asking for occupied areas of loop ukraine
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twice impeached former president that is maga followers continued to cry wolf over what it was a democratically run free and fair election in 2020. if you want to see what a rigged vote actually looks like, just look to the sham referendums that it concluded today across four occupy russian regions of ukraine. all to give russian president
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vladimir putin a pretext to annex those four regions. as choreographed russian progress for more than 96% of residents in those areas in favor of annexation according to the russian news agency which you can totally trust. that should not be that surprising with reports of people being forced to participate at gunpoint. these numbers her merely as mirror assimilate contested referendum in 2014 that led to russia's illegal annexation of crimea. just like crimea, this is been slammed by ukraine and its allies as a violation of international law. this may be rebooting's only strategy left, as military age men are rushing to the border, as he's trying to get more 300,000 more russians to the front line of ukraine. startling images show miles of cars caught in traffic jams leaving for neighboring countries like georgia and mongolia, waiting for as long as 40 hours. officials in kazakhstan say
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98,000 russians have already crossed into their country over the past week. throughout russia, protests have broken out, recruiting centers have been attacked in a recruitment officer was shot and seriously wounded. remember, all of this is being done to feed into one man's obsession into power. we can all sadly relate to that part here in this country. and that is tonight's read out. all in with chris hayes starts now. chris hayes starts now. hum tonight on all in. seditious conspiracy on trial in d.c.. >> it's either president trump has encouraged and bolsters trump and to do what is he was to, or we end up in a bloody fight. we all know that. >> today while the oath keepers defense argument could have missed massive implications for donald trump. and >> i'm gonna do everything they can to do to make sure the carry lake is not elected. >> why the threat of democracy in arizona is way more dire than you might think. >> she's a fascist, she's a racist


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