tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC October 19, 2022 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
and essential infrastructure. reject prop i before it's too late. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. the beat with ari melber starts right now, right on time. >> right on time, like we do some of the time. >> most of the time. >> i'll take it. thanks, nicolle. welcome to "the beat."
i'm ari melber. here is how you know we're in new territory in this year's midterm home stretch. look who it is. barack obama will be visiting, georgia, michigan, wisconsin, today adding nevada. the former president is the surrogate most in demand in his party right now, but there are other names who we know can galvanize crowds like this. you're looking at some of the large young and often diverse crowds that we saw gather for bernie sanders on his campaign trail. you see this is him out back on the presidential primary. i want to give you the context of why some democrats are excited about this announcement. when you look at crowds like that in so many parts of the country, bernie announced today he'll hit eight states for 19 events in this last stretch. the 81-year-old showing his stamina. meanwhile republicans siamak crow trends they think can matter far more than any surrogate or any big crowd.
massive economic problems continue to top voters' minds. forecasts favor republicans in many races right now. 81% of voters prioritize the economy and rising prices here as their top concern. that's something that historically people hold against the incumbents. the incumbents are democrats in the white house and congress. meanwhile, democratic warnings that democracy itself is literally on the ballot, the people that tried to steal your vote and violently overthrow the election, we're seeing signs of the warnings worker. there's push back from republicans who are trying to distance themselves from exactly what they've been doing, trying to sharpen the edges of a slate lying about trump's laws. in new hampshire senate candidate don bolduc is eating his past lie about 2020. >> trump won the election and,
damn it, i stand by that. >> i spent the last couple weeks talking to granite staters all over the state and i've come to the conclusion and want to be conclusive on this, the election was not stolen. >> the narrative that the election was stolen, doesn't fly in new hampshire. >> fact-check, true it doesn't fly. fact-check, false, he's been all over the place. the most recent statement is the most definitive except for the ones he said a couple months ago. bolduc campaigning with nikki haley who recently vowed not to help the kind of candidates who lie about the fact that 2020 was, you know, real. >> everybody that i'm helping acknowledges the fact that the elections were real. >> no, they don't, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. if we were just lying about the
confidence in our very democracy and electing people who were lying about it, that would be a big enough problem on its own. but you add in violence and people openly trying to minimize or even support the violent insurrection that we live through and you have a bigger problem on your hands. you know, a really big problem. we have some special guests to get into this midterm light. editor in large aaron haynes, and car ruin deher jan. author of "unkmekd, the untold story of the botched impeachments of president trump." >> dealer's choice. i'll start with you. it relates to some of the reporting you've been doing. there's the ethics and the politics. both seem to run against certain types of republican candidates which is why they seem to be running away from what i call the unpopular coup position. >> look, the gop has been
struggling for a long time between their gut sense of what is right and what actually happened, whether we're talking about the 2020 election or the events of january 6th that happened as they were trying to certify the results of the 2020 election. and the sense and questioning of whether they can separate themselves from the party that still has a lot of loyalty to donald trump. this has kind of shown both the examples of what you're showing, this going back and forth between what is the message of was the 2020 election actually that president biden won, all the way to, we can track back since basically the 2020 election of the various push and pulls that happened. the book that i authored with politico's rach chel bade gets into the puch and pull that happened as they were trying to determine whether or not to impeach the president or whether or not to convict the president. document how the republican leaders in congress, mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy consciously buried what they knew to be right in order to do what they thought would please
donald trump. they're still struggling as a party with this. >> to develop that point and then we'll bring in erin, everybody expects a little give-and-take from politicians in general. what you're saying -- you come at this looking at the facts, straight reporting, is not that this is one of those things where someone tweaks it a little bit, but they really knew this was a terrible violent insurrection, all the things we heard from the committee -- bipartisan by the way -- but they had to just stifle that and put short-term political expedience above actually taking on what would have been the toast of their lives, what john mccain used to urge his party to do, put his country, quote, first. >> in our book we document an episode where kevin mccarthy who was very, very publicly vocal about how upset he was with the president, calling on him to bring back his protesters and end the assault on the capitol and who confessed behind closed
doors that he believed trump was responsible. after telling the rank and file saying they should vote with their conscience. and then coming back, why did you tell the world i have trouble with trump and trying to put the squeeze on her for doing what she thought was right. she asks what do you want me to do? lie. i did what i thought was right and that's not good enough for him. we saw mitch mcconnel taken to fort mcnair, goes across the aisle to bring nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, we can't rely on the president, we have to work together. also, we document how he really did believe trump was guilty of inciting the insurrection and he didn't buy this argument that you couldn't actually convict a former president, but again didn't have the guts to go against where his party was going. this is kind of the legacy of where we are now. >> let me bring erin in here.
erin, i would venture to say this is not a tomato tomato issue where they see reasonable people can disagree on how to pronounce it, although it is officially tomato. i think this is a bigger deal. this reporting and what you see on the trail, to bring it back to the midterms, is candidates literally out there going, forget everything i ever said in the primary, now i'm down with democracy. >> and that's just it. it is a primar to general election shift. i have to give a shout-out to my favorite voter, my mom. it's her birthday today. >> what's her name? what's your mom's name? >> my mom is joyce. joyce, happy birthday. >> happy birthday, joyce. if you get on "the beat." >> we have to establish precedent right now. that's exactly right. shifting -- in the primary, yes,
that was something that a lot of these gop candidates had to say, had to continue to stick with their insistence along with the former president that the election was stolen. again, you heard bolduc say it himself, this is not a message flying in new hampshire, so he's having to adjust if not straight up reject what he was saying in the primary in order for popular surrogate like nikki haley to show up on his behalf. you're seeing it happen with abortion, gop candidates adopting positions saying no abortion -- no abortion without exception, whether it's life of the mother, rape or incest. now they're walking that back and saying, well, maybe i do support ob borgs in some cases because they know that's not resonating with a lot of voters. what i will say, i'm taking this a along with the information we just saw on "the new york times" siena college poll yesterday that said 40% of americans,
including 70% of republicans are okay with an election denier being in office if there's some other issue that resonates with them. we know there are hundreds of election deniers on the ballot which means some number of them will be elected. i think it is a matter probably depending where these voters are, candidates knowing who the voters are, knowing where they stand and then probably tweaking their message accordingly. >> you raised, as you often do, an extra important point. the way i read that data, if somebody says this other thing is more important to me than the democracy issue, i read that as their belief, which some might call naive, that democrats will still hold long term. what they're saying is i care about these other issues and i want to use my voting power to effect them which in normal times is fine. which if you believe this whole thing is in danger. we've seen in other countries
democracy do die. it's nonsensical to see this issue matters to me because you ain't going to have a vote on it. there will be elections like there are in russia. they call them elections. they happen. they're propaganda to reenforce a police state. you mention the abortion issue. new sound from val demings who many people know as a lead are in congress running against marco rubio, this was last night's senate debate in florida. >> senator, how gullible do you really think florida voters are? number one, you have been clear that you support no exceptions, even including rape and incest. no, senator, i don't think it's okay for a 10-year-old girl to be raped and have to carry the seed of her rapist. no, i don't think it's okay for you to make decisions for women and girls as a senator.
>> errin, it might be hard for people to listen and might be tough to talk about it, imagine being a person forced by government -- compelled by the government under the color of law to live with it. this is people's reality. i'll give you the final word on that issue which you brought up. >> you do have democrats trying to keep this issue front and center and to really try to show voters what the stakes are of a post dobbs reality. you have president biden just this week saying his priority in the next congress will be to codify roe at the federal level because he thinks it is that much of a priority. that's something that a lot of these candidates can take out here in the final three weeks of this election, threats to democracy, abortion, the economy. most voters are not single-issue voters. they can carry all these things at the same time. it's not just about what the top issue is. they can care about one and care about others, and all those things are going to be
motivating people to go to the polls in some of these key states in the next few weeks. >> i'm double-checking the date, appreciate you making that point. october 19th, i'm going to see you i hope soon, but also every october 19th as long as we have "the beat" so we can do this again next year for your mother. >> my mom will love that present. thank you very much. >> was it not bernie sanders who said word to your mother? >> i don't know. >> i don't know either. nobody knows. aaron haines, thank you for your thoughts on more than one issue. karoun difficult mir engine. we have our shortest break, 60 seconds. the trump cool lawyer searched by the feds, a new court loss and the former sdny chief is here. we're back in one minute. without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer,
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losing again today. the january 6th committee winning a round as a judge finds donald trump signed legal documents knowingly, meaning he shared false claims that he knew were false, basically a legal way of saying he was lying. what does that mean? they're ordering trump lawyer john eastman to turn over even more emails to the january 6th committee which is still doing its work. that's bad for trump because remember, most of the contact you have with your lawyer remains privileged, even if you're talking about really bad stuff, incriminating stuff in the past, unless you're trying to commit new crimes together. it's a high bar even if you're not a former president. the judge found the email evidence here has a sufficient link in furtherance of a conspiracy to defraud the u.s. with trump knowing the specific numbers of voter fraud submitted were wrong as he continued to tout those numbers in court and to the public. here is why this is a big deal. we never know exactly what the doj is completely up to, but we
followed some of these threats in the january 6th committee which often are clashes about evidence, just getting the darn people to do their duty, to comply with the lawful subpoena, to testify, or in this case to separate out what i mentioned, the legit privilege stuff, donald trump like everyone else is entitled to that privilege. any stuff that's about new crimes like defrauding the u.s., game over. to get into exactly this big news and some other material, we have someone who has been exactly niece prosecutorial positions. he used to run the famed sdny, david kelley and also my former boss. welcome back. >> thank you. good to be here. >> so much going on. if people don't do this the way you do, they might think, okay, more files running around. is it a big deal if you have a judge say actually, i'm canceling part of the privilege because it doesn't apply? >> it is a big deal. the attorney-client privilege is a big deal in itself. it protects a lot of records and a lot of cases. there's always issues about
attorney-client privilege. you always have way in the background hanging over somebody's head a rain cloud. that rain cloud is a claimed fraud exception. rarely does the cloud burst. the fact that the judge found it, when i looked at the oranges wow, i'd love to see those emails because they need to be pretty explicit about really perpetrating a fraud. >> when you say perpetrating, i don't want to be too legalistic. we try to be plain english lawyers. you're using the jarnd, ing, perpetrating. to be clear, if you're saying, hey, remember a year ago what you did on the taxes talking to your lawyer, i'm worried what i did before, i might have done wrong, that's not fraud. it's got to be what you're doing now and in the future. >> it's using the communication with the lawyer as part and parcel of the commission of an
offense, a crime. >> wouldn't eastman know better? shouldn't he know better? >> he's a lawyer. he should know better. it's treg that the judge found, in the thousands of documents, i think it comes down to nearly 600 documents or so and he found several of them to be not covered by the privilege because of the crime of fraud exception. it's a big deal and a big deal for the hearings, but it's really information. your next question may be can this be used against trump in a criminal prosecution. >> or eastman. >> i think eastman -- probably. >> were you going to say he's toast? >> i think he could be. the problem with emails of this nature, using them in a court of law, in a trial, you have the thing called the hearsay rule, rules of evidence. he could be talking about what trump knew to somebody else, communicating. we know trump doesn't use email. we know he's not a party to this
email. eastman is talking about what he may have said to trump or what trump may have said to him. that's going to be hearsay in a criminal trial most likely. >> let me push you on that, david. if you were working this case and andrew weissmann who had your job has done this kind of thing and said you've got to work your way up. they haven't hit any -- what liz cheney has said, haven't hit any elite republican officials for a coup plot. if you hit eastman, it seems the judge is saying, looks like you weren't defending your client, looks like you were criming with your client. >> absolutely. my only point is i think this is really important information. the question is how can yu use this information for the purposes of the january 6th hearings, i think it's really important. the big question about what did trump know and when did he know it and what did he do about it? they may be lying right in those emails. now if i'm merrick gar land,
it's a little bit more of a challenge about how i can use those emails, and it's hard for us to talk about that here without looking at these emails and understanding between who the communications are and some other contextual issues to determine how you can use them consistent with rules of evidence. >> given your experience, final question. let's say for maximum fairness, sake of argument, let's say eastman had no knowledge of violence or plotting of that nature, that he was just working, obstruct, hinder, delay the certification, perhaps submit fraudulent materials like elector fraud, perhaps override the vote in other ways, governmental. would you see that as a case you can bring against him? >> yes. again, there may be some prohibitions depending on the particular communications. the short answer to your question is yes. >> david, good to see you as
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informationally is they really show exactly what the parties are running on. democrats, we've been discussing, hitting abortion and democracy. we covered that in the programment one of the top three issues in ads by republicans right now is safety and crime which puts heat on criminal justice reform. take the rikers island prison we've also covered. democrats vowed to close it. the new democratic mayor of new york is walking that back. >> what we have to do -- we can't do it today, we can't do it tomorrow. what we have to do as quickly as possible in the city is get off reicher's island as quickly as possible. >> when you have the high number of people that can fit into borough-based jails, what do you do with the people that commit assaults, robberies, rapes? >> mayor adams is a moderate, former police officer. most people held at rikers are presumed innocent. they're awaiting trial for one
reason, they can't afford bail. they're held in this dangerous system facing new accusations, rikers is, that it's covered up conditions so bad they just are trying to lie about them while a judge will decide next month whether to once and for all let the feds take control of what they view as a broken jail. we turn to civil rights activist jer ray mckesson, co-founder of campaign zero, an organization dedicated to ending the way america does mass incarceration. welcome back. >> it's good to be back. >> i don't know if you remember the saying i really mean it. when i tell people i really mean it, we're going to stay on the stories, i do. when i mentioned the midterms public safety and crime is a big issue in lots of places in america. i don't think anyone can honestly deny that. there's a lot of evidence that rikers is not making its surrounding area much safer, perhaps the opposite.
you've worked on this a long time. the floor is yours on rikers. >> here is the thing. remember rikers is a jail, not a prison. like you said, the people there are waiting trial. prison is where people go after they've been con viced of something. there's the lowest number of people at rikers almost in its history. in its height there were 20,000 people. there are 5,000 people at rikers and almost 8,000, 90 guards, one of the most staffed jails in the world. we don't have any indication that adams is doing anything to make it better which is why we want the federal judge to appoint a receiver to take it over so it won't be the federal government running rikers, it will be the judge appointing a person or two or three people. when you look at the facts, look at herndon diaz, the guards watched him choke on an orange and when asked why didn't you save him? well, the guard cannot have interaction with inmates.
why are you at a jail if you can't interact with inmates? that's what we see time and time again. >> you lay out a specific example. many of the examples are not only awaiting trial as we just discussed, but deliberately smaller offenses. i say deliberately because new york has had over decades the giuliani broken windows policy, later bloomberg who claimed to be, whatever he was, a moderate, a democratic, the bloomberg stop-and-frisk which was criminalizing broad swaths of behavior, having a lot more police interaction than you would. here is how giuliani defended his. >> you have a building and eventually they break all the windows and the building will fall down. because you thought the -- >> where does overpolicing fit into what becomes a clogged facility for people who, again,
have not been convicted of anything? >> it's really wild. people give de blasio a hard time, arrests plummeted uder de blasio. it costs $555,000 a person. we can do a whole lot of social very iss with a whole lot of people for that person. new york city only spends $20,000 per student. that's criminal in so many ways. when we look at adams, time and time again he's going to get rid of solitary confinement. doesn't get rid of solitary confinement. he's, i'm going to change some things. he doesn't change things. i don't know if you saw, but at the board of corrections, the oversight committee for rikers, for the first time in recorded history the department didn't
come to the hearing. adams is really toeing the line and refusing any oversight, the judge has to step in. >> as you say, it's a big question on whether someone ran on something different, a new democratic mayor is basically tacitly or directly supporting that, which not only goes against his pledge, but also goes against the public safety need to have these things function and not be human rights disasters. deray mckesson, we appreciate your perspective. thanks for coming back. >> good to be back. here is a photo hard to understand in a moment. it's real, and i'll explain what's going on and why it matters next. ask, “but you linked to dangerous flu complications, like pneumonia, heart attack, and hospitalizations?” i just say, “but, i'm just the flu.” it's him!
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fanduel and draftkings use loopholes to pay far less than was promised. sound familiar? it should. vote no on prop 27. i want every american to know that i'm taking inflation very seriously, and it's my top domestic priority. >> we're all concerned about the economy, the number one american problem. republicans blaming democrats, democrats blaming republicans, but nothing gets done. >> biden gave a talk this morning and blamed everybody else anti inflation. >> citing a weak economy to run against incumbents is an old d.c. tactic. the midterms are heating up. we've heard from many leaders here on "the beat" including washington leaders, top biden white house officials you see there. now we turn to one of the most influential conservative leaders in the nation, matt sclapp on
the campaign trail in georgia. he's a veteran of the bush white house, running the annual cpac conference. thanks for joining me. >> great to be back with you, ari. >> if you were talking to an independent or even a biden 2020 voter, what is the argument for electing a republican congress now? >> that -- the goal -- first of all, the biden voters, whether democrats or independents, i heard it over and over again, i want to go back to some sense of normal see. we seem to have drama in our politics, maybe things can calm down. unfortunately these policies which i think are extreme that have come from joe biden super juicing the economy, stopping all these fossil fuel projects, making it harder to use your land, to raise crops or to have animals, ranchers, farmers, all
these policies have made it harder for people to afford to fill their gas tank, to put food on the table. they're watching inflation which is a chief in the night, almost a tax increase on every american. you can say take away the donkey, take away the elephant. if you look at polls, these policies are devastating. >> you mentioned the prices. that's hitting everybody. people are hurting. you have the gop plan. i'll put that up, when you mention inflation because they have this commitment to america plan. it says after all this crushing inflation, democrats have no plans to solve it. since we get to hear from you tonight, what specifically will republicans do? mitch mcconnell raised a lot of interest when he said out loud no one is going to get to know the agenda in advance. take a look. >> if republicans take back control of congress after the midterms, what would be your agenda? >> that is a very good question, and i'll let you know when we take it back.
>> you're a conservative leader. is your view that that stands and it's a trust us we'll tell you later, or is there a specific plan to do something different than this white house on inflation? >> ari, when i come on your show, i'm here as my own person running a conservative group. not here to be an apologist for the elephant. i would say when republicans don't tell people what their agenda is, it makes it look dubious that either they have one or they're going to do something nefarious when they get in. i applaud rick scott for having an agenda. republicans stubbed their toe on repealing obama care because they never got around to what an alternative would look like. >> so you think mcconnell is off base? >> it's an old school way of playing politics. if we take about what our proposals, the media will immediately start attacking, as they did rick scott.
>> since you brought it up, scott wanted to cut social security. you think that's a good idea? >> i think -- look, what i like about scott's policies is -- don't make me regret the fact that i want to put policies out. what i liked about scott's policies is that's more honest and fair with the american people. his real question, go back to inflation, how are you going to tame the inflation tiger? when i was a kid, we had double-digit interest rates and jimmy carter's solution was to use interest rates to try to bring inflation back down. it was awfully tough on my parents when they were trying to sell their house and high mortgage interest rates. okay. but the other side of this equation for republicans is we want to constrain government spending. joe biden believes in super juicing the economy which causes inflation. we want to restrain the government. so it's fair to say that when republicans get into office, people like me are going to advocate for less government spending. i'll put it right out there on the table. >> hey, we're going back talking a couple policies here, i think
that's useful or not. whether you regret it or not as a conservative leader, i think only the voters can make you regret it, not me. >> by the way, the voters are on my side. all these states, it's going to be a big red wave no matter what people in the media say. take it to the bank. i'm never confident in politics. >> i heard your confidence. i'm going to give you a question. you're in georgia giving your perspective. we've been covering the way democracy is playing out as a midterm issue. when you look at this, you do acknowledge quickly that joe biden won the presidential election and that sedition is wrong, correct? >> oh, ari, can we stop? joe biden is in the white house. i've said over and over again, he was sworn in. he's my president. that does not belie the fact that we threw our voter id and election laws out the window in 2020 which has created huge concerns across this country. we should never be able to throw
outlaws. you said in the previous segment, you went through all the ways you think the laws were broken by donald trump and his associates. why don't you hold the democrats to account for the fact they didn't follow voter id, didn't follow the election laws? if we continue to pick which election laws we will follow and not follow, we will have a disaster in this country. that's what we have. we have so much fraud the last time because they were able to bypass voter id laws. >> you're saying asked and answered which implies that you accept he won the election and you're talking about voter id. >> i accept the fact that he was sworn in. i believe he's the head of our government. >> that's a known fact. you would really sound bananas. >> i asked you a question back. >> i'll take your questions at the end when i do your show. >> should you be able to choose which laws you follow in terms of the election? >> i know they teach this down at the federalist society training where you think you have a show and you ask the questions. >> i'm not a lawyer.
>> i invited you on to do the interview. i want to put on something else that is serious. >> i'm asking you a serious question. >> i'll say it again. when i do your show, i'll take your questions. >> i guess you don't have to follow all the laws. i get it. >> you're a big conservative leader. one of the things you run at cpac, here is the footage of demonstration at cpac, an individual who actually was convicted. they sort of staged the jail here outside of cpac. this is a performance art. but this individual, as you may know, was convicted in connection with the january 6th insurrection. he won found to have been trying to help attack police officers. does this kind of thing at cpac glorify the people who are convicted of, as i mentioned, storming the capitol, trespassing and/or sedition which has also now been confessed to? >> the person i believe in that shot -- it's hard for me to see
it because you didn't show it to me ahead of time, i don't think he even went into the capitol. you have dozens of people, literally hundreds of people that after two years the federal government is still going after. and we had two summers of black lives matter violence, 24 dead people, a dead cop, the president of the united states -- >> right, if you care about the officers. >> let me talk. i know it's your show. >> i'll let you finish. >> we had 24 people who lost their lives during that violence. the president of the united states had to be taken into the bunker. the problem in our society today and our politics today, the problem with our democrats to quote the left and liz cheney is all we focus on is the fact that you guys think trump is a bad guy and when there's violence associated with trump and the election, that's all you want to focus on. if you don't focus on the violence that's been adopted by the left, which happened through antifa and black lives matter with dead people and the attack on cops. >> i'm letting you get your point out. >> why isn't the doj going after
any of those people associated with all that violence? >> i'm letting you get your point out. everyone understands there's law enforcement throughout the country that deals with specific cases. >> this is the doj. >> his name is brandon. >> not going those who broke the law. >> his name is brandon straka, he confessed to being guilty, helping to attack the police. you're talking about anti police or anti blue lives, this tends to glorify him at cpac. apparently you say you stand by it but concerned about other crime. >> do i get to go now? >> uh-huh. >> at cpac thousands of people come together and we let them rent booths, and they are allowed to express themselves through the first amendment. brandon struck or anybody else that comes to cpac has the right to express their views. you always want to put me into the box of being a censor of
everybody that coming the my event. >> i'm giving you your views on air. that's the opposite of censorship. if you want to ask why brandon struck had that in his booth, have him on your show and ask him. i didn't go to his booth. i was often u aware of it until after it happened. the department of justice, after two years, for a four-hour demonstration and riot at the capitol is abominable because they don't do the same thing to the left. if you want to be seen as fair and impartial, take care of the violence on the left and the right. >> one thing we can agree on is exchanging information and ideas, not censuring w e gave you time. matt schlapp -- >> next time let's talk about the midterms. we should go through the races. >> matt sclapp, thanks for being here. we have something very
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she believes that kids should just be kids. that's difficult to do when your kid is depressed, talking of suicide. >> that's one real family's experience. this whole topic is one where freedom and understanding and knowledge are involving. for gay americans it's easy to remember being gay was wrongly declared a mental health disorder until 1973 and listed as a medical, quote, disturbance, all the way till '87. now today there's a right to same-sex marriage and those views look wrong to most people now and certainly to the medical profession. a lesson from history approaching these challenges with empathy as families try to make their own decisions about their own lives about how to approach this if it arises. rather than going all big government and closing the door on knowledge or medical input with these kind of crackdowns.
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all i got to tell you, i hea from a lot of you when boifrts icon billy porter. we went back and forth the entire interview which runs over half an hour and has a lot of stuff we didn't air last night. it's findable right now at msnbc.com/mavericks. it was a joy to hear from him and you can hear more from him. let me tell you what's coming up next week. the next maverick you see right here, we just taped with lyndi lauper coming exclusively to the beat next week. the reidout with joy reid is up necks. tonight on "t r