tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC November 18, 2022 12:00am-1:00am PST
you a very good and very safe night. from all of our colleagues across the networks that nbc news, thank you for staying up late, we will see you at the end of tomorrow. >> tonight on all in! >> we come with a new generation to lead the democratic caucus in the respect. >> the study in contrast as the democratic giant steps aside,
and the maga wing takes power. >> we could keep it about 100, in this particular way. if we can keep it about and hunter biden that would be great. >> then the crime of democracy that yielded the republican majority and exploded -- >> democrats don't have to keep, we don't have to gerrymander, republicans do. >> the best yet, that his own voters now see donald trump as a loser. >> you know it, i know it, and everybody knows it. >> all in starts right now! good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. a changing of the guard is coming. watch it in d. c., one that i think we saw today on display but more than that, embodies the difference between the two parties, the two coalitions they represent. that of course nancy pelosi announced she will be stepping down from house leadership after 20 years and a historic
run as the first female speaker of the house. >> a fundamental mission to hold strong to our most treasure democratic -- >> tonight madam speaker, history was made today and that phrase was used for the first time ever when and see pelosi of california was elected speaker of the house and when her party took control from the republicans for the first time in 12 years. speaker pelosi is now second in line to the presidency behind only the vice president. >> i've been covering nancy pelosi for nearly two decades. she's a remarkably effective legislator, congressional leader. not just because she's a savvy politician, she's a great vote counter. what has made truly nancy pelosi truly great is what she has accomplished. there's a body of work, a substantive agenda that she either delivered or blocked. on that note, in terms of what she blocked, the one of the first major challenges she faced after taking over's house minority leader in 2003, was then president george w. bush's proposal to privatized social security. it would've been a devastating permanent probably transformation of the american welfare state and our social safety net. but leader pelosi was absolutely instrumental in blocking.
she resisted pressure to present countering poses, calculating the republican plan would collapse under its own weight. when members pestered her every week, asking when they were going to release arrival plan. i remember when this was a case. the press was all like, what are democrats gonna do? she was defiant, saying, quote, never, is never good enough for you? and you know what? it worked. republicans tore themselves apart. never brought the bill to vote in the house or senate. just completely collapsed in on itself. then in 2008, she was a speaker is the financial crisis was erupting, the worst such crisis since the great depression. she worked with the bush administration to negotiate passed legislation that backstop entire financial system and bailed out the banks. not particularly popular. and one point treasury secretary hank paulson with that point was effectively
running the u.s. government, lean so heavily on pelosi to get bail out through the house even got down on one knee to begin to push the bill through. again, nancy pelosi kept her cool and got the job done. but of course in 2010 she deliver the most significant achievement, the one that i think would be the capstone of her career, which is the health reform legislation, the largest of its kind since lbj's great society. the affordable care act, was all but left for dead after scott brown, now high school girls basketball poach, when the special election for ted kennedy's senate seat. democrats lost their filibuster proof majority in the senate. they went from 60 to 59. they no longer had the votes in the senate. nancy pelosi would not give up. >> we go through the gate. the gate is closed, we'll go over the fence. the fences to i? we'll pole vault. and if that doesn't work, we will parachuted. but we're going to get health care reform passed for the american people, for their own
personal health and economic security and for the important role it will play in reducing the deficit. >> she did. i read a story about how ron manual at that point she staff of personal by obama wanted to basically abandon it and just pass a small little version of child health care, which she called the it's a bit eaten cease by either version which he said she wouldn't do. now, she delivered the votes and passed obamacare. they pass the bill, it passed the senate, read through the house, got it done. then the first two years of the biden administration 90 pelosi and democrats deliver on a slew of policy priorities. there is the american rescue plan, a 1. 9 trillion dollar recovery bill as we emerge from the worst parts of the pandemic. and the chips act, the infrastructure bill, passed on a bipartisan basis, the inflation reduction act, the largest clean energy climate investment in history, 370 billion dollars investment in clean energy. that's to name a few. speaker pelosi also passed some substantive legislation to the
house. the senate didn't take up including the voting rights package, the bill to protect abortion rights. for two decades nancy pelosi has carried out the agenda of the democratic party. and there are critics all over the place of that agenda. there are critics on the, right critics on the left. but it is an ambitious, sprawling agenda. a time she is done with a narrow majority. she has done it skillfully and truly, and she has worked with both sides of the aisle as she highlighted today. >> my privilege to play a part in forging extraordinary progress for the american people. i have enjoyed working with three presidents, achieving historic investments in clean energy with president george bush. [applause] transformative health care reform with president barack obama. [applause] and forging the future from infrastructure to health care to climate action with president joe biden. [applause] >> you might have known to the nancy pelosi made one obvious deliberate omission there. the four years of donald trump 's presidency. but she was really instrumental in, as well. this is something i think a lot of people have lost sight of.
to, me it's one of the most notable moments in recent american governing history. in the midst of the social pandemic, pelosi and the democratic caucus in the house work with members of the trump administration, particular steve minutiae, and said republican leader mitch mcconnell, to pass trillions of dollars in covid relief. they had to know it would boost the incumbent president chances of reelection. it put money directly in the pockets of millions of americans. the checks that trump put his name on, and they kept councils countless businesses approach. trump could run on that, right? and they did it anyway. but i think pelosi's omission of trump is not just about the righteous contempt she obviously holds of him. i think she really does view the two impeachments she oversaw more in sorrow than anger. i don't believe she sees those impeachments as accomplishments. i've gotta tell, you what democratic lawmakers, almost all the democratic lawmakers i have ever known, interviewed,
as a journalist, by and large what they want to do when they get to congress is pass laws, make policy. some policies are, good some not so good. but they want to pass the laws and make policy. it's just not the case on the other side. and if you don't believe me, look at day one of the republican house majority. it doesn't exist yet, but today was their rollout. they will be regaining control of the house with a slim majority. as a talk about what they do with this power, it sounds more like a steve bannon podcast episode than a congressional agenda. >> one of our highest priorities under the republican congress will be to stop left-wing censorship and to restore free speech. >> so this is the focus on the judiciary committee. the puddling nature of the justice department leakage now to what was happening with a hunter biden story. >> we also want to get to the
bottom of the origination of covid-19. >> i'm really happy doctor fauci is retiring, because it's gonna be a lot of time for him to sit on our committees. >> we can impeach secretary mayorkas. [applause] we can impeach merrick garland. >> i'm introducing articles impeachment against joe biden on monday. >> we also just learned that individual, marjorie taylor greene, extracted a promise from leaders that they will investigate speaker nancy pelosi in the justice department for their treatment of defendants shield in connection with january 6th. let's be clear, american jails are generally pretty awful, okay.
and everyone no matter the crime, no matter who they are, or who the park politics, our deserves to be treated humanely. that often is not the case in our system. but what is happening here is that republicans, a certain section of, the molly taylor greene, believe that these folks who carried out a violent insurrection and hunted down elected leaders are basically political prisoners. and marley reggie taylor greene alongside fellow republicans are already threatening to shut down the government. again, none of this is that surprising considering they don't, again, really have a substantive agenda to work on anyway. at least not a popular one. the most coherent virgin they could cobble together would include, i don't, know some platitudes about respecting life with no specifics, with republican leader kevin mccarthy. and rick scott's books criticize plan to cut social security, medicare, medicaid.
i am sure they will also find a way to try to cut taxes for rich people and big corporations. that's the one thing you can bet. on it's the one thing they all agree on. it's the one thing they know how to do. so today when you compare jim jordan in a short sleeves whaling about hunter biden's laptop, to the pillars of the american social welfare state that nancy pelosi is overseeing, that is exactly what the two different parties stand for this moment. this is former campaign manager for obama's 2008 presidential run as well as a senior adviser to president obama in obama. he joins me now. great to have you here. >> let's start with day one of the republican house. it's wild because it felt to me like they just had this disappointing showing. it seemed to me to show that they were stuck in their own bubble, they believe their own high, they were communicating with media and voters. day one they come out, and it's
just all base maintenance. >> they're doubling down, traveling down. a lot of house republicans make people like blake masters and emmett oz and even herschel walker look like milquetoast moderates. so i guarantee you that maybe there's 10% of the electorate that was voting for investigations on hunter biden. to make it easier for insurrections this in prison. that's just about it. everyone else wants kitchen table issues. it's predictable the bullet i don't think it's gonna change. kevin mccarthy has no control. what's fascinating about this is the people in his caucus who should have the strongest voice, and one in new york, the ones in california, they deliver the majority, there's something about nancy pelosi. she always put her vulnerable members first. she obviously had to cater to the left and the center right in the caucus. but she really saw the world
through their eyes. and kevin mccarthy already on day one's has basically said the ghost horses, the empty, jeez they're gonna drive the bus here. it's so far away from the american people screamed loudly last week. they won the country and the leaders to focus on. >> it's very true. this would be very frustrating to progressives in the caucus. this focus on the moderates and they're the kind of weather vane the guides the caucus. but there are exceptions to that. the biggest one is the aca. i think this all the time about politics which is that yes, donors are massively important, and politics are massively important. but it does matter the intensity what politicians believe in. they really do things purely for ideological reasons or accomplishment. nancy pelosi pushed through the aca against all other rational considerations. she knew it was gonna decimate the caucus. she did it because she believed the democrats should deliver health care reform. >> i was in the oval office with president obama the night
of the election when scott brown long won and lost her 60 senate. we're here in the west wing is about as far from the west wing show as you can get. but that night he basically said listen, if we give up now it'll be 25 or 30 years before we get health care. and you pointed out there was opposition to that decision in the white house, a lot of senate in the white house. the person most was nancy pelosi. at the end of the day she realized even though we're in a financial crisis, even though it's clear democrats are gonna have a horrible election, we just had to enroll, so even in a neutral environment we're gonna give a lot back. she saw this was an opportunity, really, once in a generation.
it had been 100 years. she deserves enormous credit for that because there was such opposition to that. it was, yes, the itty-bitty bill. a lot of people wanted no bill at all. and she put that on her back. >> she did. in the accounts of, that i saw that up close, i will never forget trying to remember that day, the morning after the brown election. progressive members, were dead, it's dead. here's the other thing that i note about her. managing the caucus. i thought this reporting that came out in the book about the two impeachments, about how she tried to manage that, and she was caught between progressives who wanted to leave no stone unturned by pursuing potential multiple crimes by trump, hush money payments, and politically vulnerable democrats who push for more narrow tailored strategy. we get the saga over with as
quickly as possible. she also according to reporting held back this crime for impeachment, even though i thought it was substantively justified, almost from the jump. that was the thing that kevin mccarthy if he has any political which he's gonna have to try to do, i think. what do you think about the relative abilities to do that? >> he's not gonna be able to do it. so nancy pelosi always, from either the most democratic dems districts in the country, san francisco, she's always had a thumb on the heartbeat of ohio
and swing areas in north carolina, virginia. so listen, i was on capitol hill with a democratic leader part of the time during clinton 's impeachment. i can tell you that how tricky. that is to watch her navigate this. then the pandemic, and on guided missile in the white house and trump, you had two impeachments. and somehow she was able to navigate this. it didn't make everybody happy, but she did it with great skill.
kevin mccarthy has no chance to control his caucus. none. my only question, quite frankly, is how many speakers in the house are gonna be in this congress? to? three? for it's possible. >> i think it's a great point and i don't even think it's guaranteed. but the final question, i think, is, when clinton ran in 96, everyone thought clinton was dead in 94. new greenwich becomes an incredible foil and i need six in that reelection which he trounces bob dole. at the pure level of politics, how much does a house caucus bowed to its most extreme member's help the opposite party incumbent president? >> the most important factor in 24 will be who the nominees are. that's broadway. but there will be a sense of voters they just said we had better remember yes the democrats did a lot of important things in the last congress but that was more a vote against the republicans than the democrats, what we saw last week. and so they said, we don't want the craziest of the crazy. >> that's pretty clear. >> all they're gonna see is well the republicans are gradient if we give them a republican cree president they'll be crazier. let's look at new york. first of all the new democratic leaders from new york. helpful if you want to win back four seats just lost to new york. these are all gonna be occurring in a presidential year. all the republicans, tyou know,y and so i don't think he's gonna and so i don't think he's gonna people are driving the bus are people in safe dist majority in places the g not with the marjorie t won it at by losing t
well, we fell in love through gaming. but now the internet lags and it throws the whole thing off. when did you first discover this lag? i signed us up for t-mobile home internet. ugh! but, we found other interests. i guess we have. [both] finch! let's go! oh yeah! it's not the same. what could you do to solve the problem? we could get xfinity? that's actually super adult of you to suggest. i can't wait to squad up. i love it when you talk nerdy to me. guy, guys, guys, we're still in session. and i don't know what the heck you're talking about. well, we fell in love through gaming. but now the internet lags and it throws the whole thing off. when did you first discover this lag? i signed us up for t-mobile home internet. ugh! but, we found other interests. i guess we have. [both] finch! let's go! oh yeah! it's not the same. what could you do to solve the problem? we could get xfinity? that's actually super adult of you to suggest.
i can't wait to squad up. i love it when you talk nerdy to me. guy, guys, guys, we're still in session. >> and look concern out in and i don't know what the heck you're talking about. control of the house representatives within majority of what nbc news projects will be just three or four seats, basically. how republicans achieve this majority in what was otherwise a bad election year for the party, was due in no small part of the gerrymandering done in states that republicans control the process in. so take, for example, alabama. it's a state in which about 27%
of the population is black. ahead of this election republicans drew this congressional map, you see on your screen, for the state. it puts much of the black population into just that one district you see, the one blue district. you get one seat. that might look big there, geographically, but it's one of seven districts. so when i decide, and that's 14%. that's how the percentage wise of what the black population is in this state. civil rights groups sued them over this, and a federal panel of judges ruled that the map violates the voting rights act. they ordered alabama to redraw the map and add another majority black district. but republicans took the case to the friends on the trump supreme court in the majority there says the map gives white voters disproportionate power is fine. go on. basically the exact same thing happen next door in louisiana. louisiana is one of blackest states in the country. a third of louisiana citizens are black.
33%. and once again, republicans drew a map with one majority black district out of six. and a federal judge ruled the map was illegal for the exact same reason and the judge ordered a second map drawn. the trump court said no, the map is fine. two states, two seats. in florida it was even more egregious. in florida republican governor ron desantis forced the republican state legislature to actually take away the mostly black district you see on the left. that was the original plan. and break it up into four red districts. you can see on the new map on the right. this time it was florida's own state supreme court dominated by republicans which upheld the biased map. that's three seats right there. the bunch of other examples of republican gerrymanders approved by the courts or defying the courts.
they basically told in ohio the state supreme court to take long off off a short pier. but these three alone, that's three seats. alabama, louisiana, florida, remove three seats that likely would've gone to the democrat. this is the council for the naacp defense fund. she worked on the cases i just mentioned and she joins me now. great to have you. can you kind of lay out the case of what current u.s. voting rights law, the voting rights act, 14th amendment, says about the questions that were issued in the two clear cases in alabama and louisiana? >> sure, chris, thanks. so the voting i writing ads rights act in 1965 if she rob roberts recognized in his dissent in the alabama case, prevent state registry jurors from cracking black voters in particular in a way to dilute their voting power and that is also prohibited by the 14th amendment, particular preventing any discriminatory map and has the effect of denying black voters there are any voters of color a fair opportunity to elect candidates of their choice. and places like alabama and
louisiana where we brought brought cases, it's a significant history of racial discrimination in voting, but across all sectors of life. so in health, in public education, in health care access, and kind of the daily things we consider good representation to usually take account of that, lack of political representation affects black voters in particular. and so the voting rights act as it stood or is it stands today would have prevented the legislatures in alabama and louisiana and in florida from enacting acts that deny-y the rights of black voters and would've required federal courts in the district in alabama, including the fifth circuit in louisiana, found would have required those legislatures or the court to have an eye to the map that provided black voters with an
additional opportunity to a later candidate of choice, meaning that two districts would have allowed black voters to elect candidates of choice and all the representation that comes with that. >> the basic math here is that for years, before the voting rights act, doesn't matter how black your state is. and you control the districts you just make sure that there is no black majorities in any district. you have an all white state legislature, all white congressional district, louisiana, whatever. voting right comes along as you can do that anymore. so then the question is what is the standard here? if you look at a place like alabama is like look, the math works out that they should probably be two black represented to the zenit's in this delegation. the republicans say you get one. and then there's a trial where a federal judge says no, you have to do this. you have to draw a second majority black district in alabama. and then why does that not happen? i still don't understand. >> it's in part thanks to the supreme court weaponization and its shadow docket whereby without kind of full briefing and marriage grants the state a
state of the district court's decision. in this case in alabama it was a weaponization of a case that meant that voters and election administrators are confused by changes to close to an election, and so that somehow justifies discriminatory maps with deny voters within the state and opportunity to like the candidate requires, in fact, a discriminatory map must go into effect for at least one election before it can be reneged. in louisiana i should know that the supreme court did not give any justification whatsoever. it was not too close to a candidate qualifying deadline or any election deadline. the supreme court just decided that it seemed poised to possibly change the applicable standard for section two voting rights act cases and that it would hold the case in louisiana voters in limbo until it rendered a decision in alabama case. >> so the alabama case has now been argued and so we'll get a decision from the court. likely not good. but there is an outside chance that this can be remedied in the future, there's also a chance that the court basically keeps taking a sledgehammer to the pillars of the voting rights act, which seems more likely. kathryn sadasivan, thank you so much. still ahead, wealthy donors dumped billions of dollars into the midterm elections. but whatever no exactly where a
lot of the money came from. it's wild. >> in louisiana i should know that the supreme court did not give any justification whatsoever. it was not too close to a candidate qualifying deadline or any election deadline. the supreme court just decided that it seemed poised to possibly change the applicable standard for section two voting rights act cases and that it would hold the case in louisiana voters in limbo until it rendered a decision in alabama case. >> so the alabama case has now been argued and so we'll get a decision from the court. likely not good. but there is an outside chance that this can be remedied in the future, there's also a chance that the court basically keeps taking a sledgehammer to the pillars of the voting rights act, which seems more likely. kathryn sadasivan, thank you so much. still ahead, wealthy donors dumped billions of dollars into the midterm elections. but whatever no exactly where a
lot of the money came from. it's wild. democratic senator sheldon whitehouse joins me on the dangers of dark money, next. he has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.
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donations for the mega rich. according to new york times, of the 25 top, donors 18 our republican, according to open secrets, and they have outspent democrats by $200 million. billionaires make up 20% of the total republican donations compared with 14. 5% of democratic donations. like peter thiel, the billionaire republican megadonor who spent over $32 million in the senate races of just two of his former employees, j. d. vance and blake masters. the three billionaires who shelled out nearly $20 million for wisconsin republican senate ron johnson's reelection campaign. supreme court citizens united, which paved the way for groups to spend limit lets amounts of money on elections have basically met the billionaires can give as much as they want, often in secret. they can spend until the playing field in the democratic elections in there's not much people can do about. at one person's been trying to take action on this is sheldon whitehouse, democrat from rhode island, and author of the scheme. he joins me now. senator, your focus on a lot of this has been on the court. but i want to talk for a moment about the problems this presents in the electoral arena. it seems that one of the
original justifications for campaign finance law was, look, let's say you have a billionaire who just isn't when a sponsor u.s. senator. amanda's been whatever it is to get that person elected. i think we all have the intuition that that senator is going to be pretty beholden to that billionaire when they get in office. is that a concern you have? >> yeah. it's a huge concern. and it actually gets even worse because very often the billionaire isn't picking a particular candidate. the billionaire is going to mitch mcconnell and saying, will dump $20 million into this race, into that race, into this race. and nobody will ever see who we are because we have hidden ourselves behind this phony front groups. but you, mitch mcconnell, and i, the billionaire, we know who you all. and we're gonna have a deal about that. you're going to damn sure not do a climate bill ever and i will keep pouring the 20 billion dollar checks in. so i think that's even worse. when you align the billionaire with a candidate publicly where the people can see that racket happening. they know it's rotten. but then if they don't see it
the rottenest still has its effect but the public doesn't have a chance to understand. >> and the scope of this is really blowing my mind. we're getting reporting about the size of these dark money investments. some of them flowing to leonard leo, a big conservative rainmaker with the one responsible for the 63 trump court. one of the biggest conservative dark money organizations the country boosted by sue separate anonymous egg gifts, each totaling more than 425 billion dollars. that trust used the money to you as a trust to support conservative causes, to the 85 group, but these are enormous enormous donations that are going into effectively political work, anonymously. >> yeah. if you add up those two donations that went through donors trust, the identity laundering machine of right-wing billionaires, with the 1. 6 billion dollars that went into that same network,
through a single contribution through a single billionaire, now you are nearly two and a half billion dollars launched into this dark money network. and as evil as that is in terms of the way it plays itself out in our politics, just think what those dahl donors had in mind. . what was their goal? what were the quiet secret deals that were entered into in the back rooms? that is what is so bad about this, that the public never gets to see any of this. they just get angry that they feel that they are being cheated by the congress that they won't listen. and of course they won't listen when they've got people the right to 0. 5 billion dollars in checks. >> then there's the court, of course, which is both the route and a product, right? >> it's a vicious cycle. the dark money packed the court the court packs the dark money. >> what's the way? out the courts jurisprudence on this has gotten more positive permissive in laissez-faire about anything to do with campaign finance. the last term you could pay yourself back from loans, they say, personally fund-raise in ways that previously been
prohibited, that was brought by your colleague did tread crews. what is the way out of the vicious crew? >> what was their goal? what were the quiet secret deals that were entered into in the back rooms? that is what is so bad about this, that the public never gets to see any of this. they just get angry that they feel that they are being cheated by the congress that they won't listen. and of course they won't listen when they've got people the right to 0. 5 billion dollars in checks. >> then there's the court, of course, which is both the route and a product, right? >> it's a vicious cycle. the dark money packed the court the court packs the dark money. >> what's the way? out the courts jurisprudence on this has gotten more positive permissive in laissez-faire about anything to do with
campaign finance. the last term you could pay yourself back from loans, they say, personally fund-raise in ways that previously been prohibited, that was brought by your colleague did tread crews. what is the way out of the vicious crew? >> you know very well from all your research what the americans for prosperity organization is. it's the koch brothers organization major battleship. attached to it is a 501 c3 so they can launder tax deductible money into this operation. that was called the americans for prosperity foundation. that foundation sued and the six right years on the supreme court, the six federal society justices, created a brand-new constitutional right for anonymous donors to hide their identities in that case. they took away the right to choose and have physical autonomy over your childbearing from half the population. they took that right away, and they added a new right for dark money billionaires to push money into the system without disclosing their identities. it is stunning. >> senator sheldon whitehouse, laser focused on this topic for as long as i have covered him as a new book about it. i appreciate you taking time about it.
still to, come with three weeks until the georgia runoffs, senator raphael warnock ties an electoral acre around herschel walker. >> get out and vote for herschel. and he deserves it. he was an incredible athlete, he'll be an even better senator. get out and vote for herschel walker. >> can donald trump help the democrats hold on to yet another senate seat? that's next.
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publicly knowledge till they were revealed in the campaign, the dynastic violations. there been a lot of marks against walker's candidacy but right now the thing working against him most if not all, that is his association with one of the most toxic names out there. ex president donald trump. the reverend mr. warnock is playing up a new ad. >> we must all work very hard for a gentleman and a great person named herschel walker, a fabulous human being. he loves our country and will be a great united states senator. herschel walker. get out and vote for herschel and he deserves it. he was an incredible athlete, he'll be an even better senator. get out and vote for herschel walker. >> i'm raphael warnock and i approve this message. >> that's it. no joke, that's the whole ad. donald trump wants you to vote for herschel walker, so to stop donald trump, voters born have to stop walker. that tells you how much trump's endorsements of candidates is actually a curse.
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arguably the least popular, and the week as he has ever been. and his political life since 2015. we've been hearing this a lot recently, the very poor showing in the midterms. and midst all the swing state candidates that he endorsed. but we now have some data demonstrating. take a look at these exit polls on trump's favor ability with
midterm voters. in pennsylvania, swing skate, key state. -- to trump's victory in 2016. to the current democratic senate majority. in that state, that key bellwether state an overwhelming 50% by favorably. he's up about 18 points. wisconsin, another key swing states. nearly 60% of voters view the president unfavourably. even in ohio, that's a state that trump won by seven points, eight points. also a state where they elected trump back. the senate, one of the bright spots. a majority of voters in ohio, have again, an unfavorable opinion of trump. tara setmayer works as a republican communications director on capitol hill, still stevens works as a -- and dozens of republicans can play in. both are now senior advisers at the lincoln project and joins me now. tara, let me start with you. those numbers on election night
we first are to getting exits. the numbers from swing states of his favor ability jumped out at me, as a flashing red light. early in the night. about what kind of night it might be. am i over reading that? >> no, because guess who it jumped out at. also. republicans, republican elected leaders. mitch mcconnell and others. who looked at this and went, yeah, well, we tried to tell you. candidate quality matters. and when the candidate is backed by donald trump and the maga wing of the republican party, it is extreme. the american people rejected in 2020, they want more parts of that moving forward. especially in these swing states. and the voting, totals showed us that. it's very clear, when you look at the five swing states, where the most maga candidates were. that the election deniers, democracy deniers as i call them, they were all defeated. the lincoln project was right on that because we recognize that those states needed to make sure that the maga election deniers did not get into positions of power or you would have a constitutional crisis in 2024.
you're not the only only when it stood out to, chris. that's why there is an international more fair starting in the republican party about who to blame. two words, donald trump. >> the key thing to me here, stewart, is independents. and again. there's a lot of structural changes that are happening to the american electorate overtime, more polarization, a lot more straight ticket voting than we used to. but there are still swing voters. there are still ticket splitting, we saw it in the midterms. and trump is just toxic to independent voters. no two ways about it. the data is clear. >> that's a big, problem but not a problem for the republican primary. you have to realize, on election day, in 16, what was trump's favorable? >> good point. >> so you know, i worked for romney and 12 on election, dee romney and obama's favorable for those of those and. you have to ask yourself is it
ever gonna happen again in the next few elections and you have to like candidates. donald trump i like is gonna win this primary because he does best as an underdog and the problem donald trump ted in 2020 was running as an income he was responsible lots of people dying of covid and he is out of that now. and if anything is wrong in the country, he's gonna blame joe biden. i think republicans, they're gonna respond to this. they're gonna nominate him and we're gonna do everything we can to defeat him. but i think it's foolish to think that it won't be another close election. >> that point i think about not being responsible for anything is key. the point i think about not being responsible is sort of where frankly the republican
party is -- it's not in governing it's in opposition. i think also tara, to the point it's do or just made, this is the grand theory. everyone -- people in the elites in the republican party thought the trump would be a disaster. they looked at those favorability ratings, they thought this guy would be toxic and it pulls out this improbable victory in 2016 which is very fluky and born of the electoral college and loses by 3 million votes. and people basically thought they got it wrong, that there was something that they hadn't seen. i think they basically over learned the lesson. the question is are they unlearning it now? >> no. i think there was something that was over looked. when we look at what was unearthed by donald trump. he gave a permission structure for people to be racist and bigoted and obnoxious and indecent, and the republican party said oh okay, that's how we need to be now. but it doesn't work for
everyone. only donald trump seems to be able to get away with that. as a lot of people imitating him, including ron desantis who thinks he can be a better version of trump. but only donald trump can get away with it. it is an anomaly here, one that is still extremely dangerous and in my opinion, and i know stu feels the same way, that you underestimate his influence at your own peril. we cannot do that, because they're still millions of people who support him, and the election was actually a lot closer last time around in 2020 than a lot of people want to realize. we still have electoral college and it's not the popular vote, and that's where you need to focus. it was quite close for joe biden in 2020. after everything trump is said and done, how many people died when we went through. >> that's a good point, and it speaks to the importance of the swing states which is part of why i think it's so striking what happened in those five states. in wisconsin, pennsylvania, michigan, arizona and georgia. if you look at those, they are gonna go one in three, maybe oh and four in the statewide
offices in arizona that were on the ballot? georgia, stuart it is striking to me that warnock put that ad out where their calculation is, association with this guy in this really narrowly divided state hurts walker more than it helps them? >> well yeah, put donald trump on the ballot if you want. i think it's a simplest proposition going. everybody who wants to vote for donald trump is already going to be voting for herschel walker. it's those other people out there -- >> that's right. >> i don't think this race is gonna be a blowout but i don't think it's gonna be particularly close. who in the world -- herschel walker who doesn't want serge walk as a u.s. senator? >> when you think about, is any other u.s. senator and six years can ask him what i wonder what herschel? thinks georgia has had some great senators. i think this guy is going to lose, but you know the essence of what trump did was he was able to maximize light turnout, lower frequency white voters with a largely racist
xenophobic appeal. we always thought that he would get the college educated voters. it didn't happen in 16 it did happen in 20. >> and it looks like, tara and stuart stevens thank you all. not that's all in for tonight. >> and it looks like, tara and stuart stevens thank you all. not that's all in for tonight. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening alex. i would love a it is down with herschel wa
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