tv Ayman MSNBC December 18, 2022 9:00pm-10:00pm PST
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of even, breaking news from the january 6th committee, and how it might affect trump's stranglehold in the gop. plus, president biden's planning for 2024, while chuck schumer is planning for subpoena power. and famous last words. outgoing congressman adam kinzinger's powerful speech to his house colleagues. i'm michael steele, in for my friend ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> we start this hour with breaking news from capitol hill. nbc news has learned that the january 6th committee met today to finalize plans to issue criminal referrals for donald
trump. those referrals, which will be presented at the panels of final meeting tomorrow, including obstructing an official proceeding of congress, conspiracy to defraud the u.s. government, and inciting or assisting an insurrection. nbc news has also learned the committee plans to refer several republican members of congress to the house ethics committee for their failure to comply with the subpoenas. five house republicans, kevin mccarthy, scott perry, jim jordan, and bigs, andy biggs, and mo brooks all ignored requests from the committee to cooperate. now it's important to remember that these criminal referrals carry no official legal weight. it remains up to the department of justice decide whether or not to charge the ex president or anyone else who might be referred by the committee. for more on this breaking news, let's bring in nbc news is ali vitali, who's live for us on capitol hill. ali, good to see you again, what more can you tell us about this exclusive reporting?
>> yeah, michael, in addition to all of the things that you laid out that we overheard from inside the committee here in the room today, the larger question is whether or not the trump campaign is going to respond in the inquiry that we sent to them tonight, they didn't respond to the substance of our new reporting on these multiple criminal referrals that the committee is going to announce tomorrow. instead, they responded, unsurprisingly, with partisan platitudes, talking about this committee as a kangaroo court in the same way we've heard the former president do on his social media platforms and that we've heard from his campaign teams before. the difference right now though, michael, he's an active political candidate. the conversations that i've had with lawmakers here on the hill, and each various turn of a trump-centric news cycle, has really been that they don't want to talk about him. on the senate side, the dynamics are different than they are in the house side. and i think their most interesting regarding kevin mccarthy and other top
republican leaders in the house because that house republican conference is so remade in the former presidents image. what's been striking though is when we ask them questions about the former president, both in light of the january 6th committee's investigation and then of course another inflection points, like his dinner with whites premises nick fuentes, and antisemitism comments from kanye west, after all those moments, lawmakers have not wanted to talk about it. instead, they seem to be taking the trump-ism, the focus is that he had during his presidency on things like the origin of covid and hunter biden's laptop, trying to apply those ideologies or focuses, if you want to call them that, to what they want to do with the majority. , they don't necessarily want to talk about him. so, this is gonna be yet another moment where the january 6th committee shines a spotlight on trump, makes history referring a former president criminal referral charges, even though those don't have weight legally within doj, still historic,
still a moment that republicans are going to have to figure out what they do and if this is a moment where they, again, move away from him. now, we've had several of those moments. and that has not yet happened. but it is another reminder to voters that this is a man who is running for president again who has a lot of baggage, legal and otherwise, around him. >> nbc ali's vitali, as the january six committee resets the political table. >> yeah. >> once again, we thank you so much, thank you. so, when you consider the breaking news about these criminal referrals, on top of republicans poor performance in the midterms, and on top of the now infamous mar-a-lago dinner with kanye west and nick fuentes, and on top of the mountain of other bs donald trump has dragged the gop through, you might think to yourself they're finally going to be done with him. not so fast, grasshopper. last week, i sat down with politico to explain why i think
the republican party just can't seem to quit the guy. they just can't get over trump. and it's not just trump. but it's also his loyalists, like lana mcdaniel. even after they lost big at the ballot box. and that's because from the national level down to the state party organizations, it's the market strain of republicanism that's become dominant. it's now standard practice in the gop to change the rules, to work to overturn elections. call it insurrection political discourse. and unfortunately, i don't see that changing anytime soon. until republicans, well, start acting like republicans again and get tired of losing. joining me now is democratic congresswoman any custer of new hampshire. she's chair-elect of the new democrat coalition. welcome congresswoman. it's good to see you. >> great to be with you, michael. thanks so much for having me. >> so, i want to get your
reaction to the breaking news on the january 6th committee. what do you make of the recommended charges that they're proposing against donald trump? and you see an impact from all of this? >> well, first, i want to say i was a victim, a witness, and a survivor of the january 6th insurrection. i was in the gallery in the house of representatives and one of the last to be evacuated. so, i'm so grateful to our colleagues for everything that they did, hours an hours of painstaking work, thousands of depositions, getting to the bottom of this case. and now, they're ready to make the referrals. and i think the american people will respond. certainly at the hearings that they had last july had a big impact on the results of the election in november. the voters rejected republican extremism. and what they're looking for is more of a mainstream approach.
so, that's why i'm proud to be leading the new democrat coalition. where the ones that will get the job done, and work with reasonable republicans to move our country forward. >> what do you make of the possible ethics violations for members of congress? is that an appropriate recommendation for the failure to comply with subpoenas? >> absolutely, you know, as members of congress, we take an oath to abide by the law. the subpoenas were lawful. they were instructing members of congress to provide documents and testimony. they were ignored. and i think it's a perfectly appropriate for our ethics committee. >> i want to get your take on this current strain of the gop. you heard my take on it. in my view, the mega strain, for example, has become dominant. and it seems the only way that's going to change is if republicans keep losing for a
while. what are your thoughts on that? >> well, that's what we saw here in new hampshire. we had a resoundingly successful election, to how seats, i won by 12 points. chris pappas by eight points, maggie hassan for u.s. senate, by ten points. the voters here rejected are extreme republican opponents, who were all three trump republicans. and they are very, very clear that they want people to take a much more proactive approach to working across the aisle and to solving americas serious problems. and i look forward to doing that in the 118th congress. i have already reached out to my counterpart, dave joyce. and as i say, as the leader of the new democratic coalition, where they can do caucus. and the war the ones that can get the job done. right now, we're working
frantically, the last few days of the session here, to pass a major bipartisan mental health and addiction legislation. that passed the house 400 and 20 to 20. i mean 400 to 20, excuse me. we want to make sure that we do come together. another example, michael, is the ndaa, the defense authorization. 350 members, 176 republicans, 174 democrats, came together to pass that bill. so, that's what the american people want. sothey want us to work together and get the job done. they're ready to reject this extremism from the maga republicans. >> you've referenced your newly elected role as leader of the new democrat coalition, that can dukakis. how do you see that caucus working with republicans in the house? how do you brand that caucuses
work outside of the congress so that the american people can get behind that can do attitude and actually push, which i think they should, to get the congress to actually accomplish something in the next session? >> well, thank you. it's conversations like this, telling people we are 96 democrats. we are from those purple districts, where we defeated maga republicans. 22 frontline members who were in tough districts that made it back our new democrats. and 17 brand-new members of congress for the 118th who are new democrats as well. and seven of those flipped seats. these are new democratic members. so, we are the ones that will bring back the majority for democrats in 2024. but in the meantime, we'll work
with anyone or stand up to anyone as is necessary. and there's any number of issues were already working with republicans on immigration reform, we've got a bill about farmworkers. i work on immigration and also climate change with a colleague from utah, as co-chairs of the bipartisan ski caucus. so, we look for any opportunity to find coming ground. i mentioned health and addiction. climate, so, all of these issues. and of course, we have the farm bill coming up. and it's a very bipartisan process. and i serve on the agriculture committee as well and look forward to that process. >> well, i appreciate that ski caucus. you've got to get that ski on. before i let you go, i want to get a little bit more into the political weeds a bit. and get your thoughts on the possible shakeup on the democratic party primary calendar, ahead of 2024. president biden's plan would
strip new hampshire of its first in the nation primary status. i have to admit, i'm going to say, i'm straight-up biased about this. i applaud this, i've been looking for it for sometime now, even as national chairman, advocating these kinds of changes to our primary system, which i think has grown stagnant and actually foments a lot of the extremism. but that's me. not you. what, what can you say, tell us, about your thoughts on this? and what is the case to be made for keeping the system the way it is? >> well, i'm not opposed to change, michael. and i think you know that iowa will drop out of the first caucus spot. what i think is is it's a complex puzzle with a simple solution. it's not an either or, it's a both and solution. and what's that about is that of course we want to lean in and welcome the participation of black voters and latino
voters to our process and make sure they get heard early in the process. but i continue to believe that new hampshire has a unique position. we're a small state. you don't have to be wealthy or famous to run for president here. you can have normal conversations with hairdressers and truck drivers and teachers and police, just people in diners and town halls all across the state. and i think it's served us well. just look at jimmy carter or barack obama. i was on the barack obama campaign. he used to tease me before michele was on board. and he went to this town hall meetings, talk to voters in their living rooms and i think he improved as a candidate. and i've said to president biden, look, i'm a big fan. he's just had an extraordinary to your session of congress. and everything that he's done for the american people. i told him to come to new hampshire.
you will win handily. you will clear the field. and so, he has nothing to be afraid of. and i think new hampshire, south carolina, and nevada, one, two, three, with serve our party, very, very well. >> alrighty, congresswoman annie kuster of new hampshire, thank you very much. it's good to see you. up next, will return to the breaking news from the january 6th committee. but first, richard louis is here with the headlines. hey, richard. >> hey michael, good sunday to you. some the stories we're watching for. you heating has been fully restored to kyiv, ukraine. the city's mayor said sunday kyiv's basic energy supplies were disrupted friday by a series of missiles aimed at the city's power grid. all good there. now twitter will no longer be allowed to promote accounts they may have another social media platforms, including facebook and instagram. new policy comes after many users began posting links via their twitter account to their other social media accounts. many doing so after elon musk's
takeover of twitter. and a world cup final delivered a crowning achievement for soccer star lionel messi on sunday, as argentina beat france on penalty kicks. the teams tied 33 through extra time. the french missed twice in a shootout before argentina converting to seal an exhausting yet very emotional victory, to say the least. more ayman, right after the break. th break. this cough. [sfx: coughs] this'll help. vicks vaporub? vicks vaporub's ...medicated vapors go straight to the source of your cough... ...so you can relieve your cough to breathe easier. vicks vaporub. fast-acting cough relief. ♪ ♪ ...so you can relieve your cough to breathe easier. i see an amazing place.
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of the breaking developments from nbc news about the january 6th committee's meeting today. tomorrow, to finalize the panels criminal referrals ahead of tomorrow's public meeting. let's bring in my sunday night panel. suitors in the percio, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst. basil's michael, former executive director of the new
york state democratic party and director of the public policy program at the roosevelt house institute of hunter college. and joining us also is judy gold, host of the podcast kill me now and author of yes, i can say that, when they come for the comedians we are all in trouble. i could not agree more [laughter] with what that says. >> >> thank you. >> i really couldn't. >> susan, let's start with you. what syria action that the january six committee is planning to issue criminal referrals for donald trump? -- >> it is pretty big news. and you know, a few months ago i was saying that i didn't think it was such a great idea for the house to make it so politically, and apparent, by referring it to doj. but you know what, we live in this world where it is right now. and there is nothing that isn't political. so, i think it's a good move. and a lot has been made out of what will the referrals be. and we should also remember at
the same time that doj has appointed a special counsel who is looking into january 6th. so, i don't think they're going to start just over doj investigating based on these referrals. and at this point, i'm more curious about what the recommendations are going to be. so, we don't see this happen again. >> so, basil, this is a big deal. it's historic. no former president has ever been the subject of a criminal referral from congress. how do you see this? what are you hearing among democrats about something like this happening? >> you know, i go back to the overturning of the special master a fuchs ago. in that report are, in that, outcome the thinking was even former presidents are not above the law for all intents and purposes. and i think that is the message democrats have carried every since the january 6th committee started meeting.
i wonder if a lot of folks just wanted to see the president and member of congress being called out in handcuffs. in some ways, i think that's something that a lot of voters want, but probably feel they're never going to get. but some accountability is important. the congresswoman said earlier, an ethics violation for those in congress, she would like to see, she probably think she will see. i know a lot of americans, a lot of democrats, won a step further. they may not get it. but i do think what has happened thus far with the january 6th committee, and having at times what's known as an uninterrupted narrative to lay out the case, did a lot of the job already, which was convince americans, tell them the story of how so many republicans, trump included, really fomented this insurrection. so, even if we don't get to see that perp walk, if you will, i do think it rests with in the
minds of many americans that all of these folks who have been named, including the former president, that they're all accountable. >> yeah, it's one hell of an image for folks to have in their mind. and judy, you know, i think it's probably an image that's pretty concerning to donald trump, because he's already posted about the committee's work several times this weekend, calling them a corrupt cowards. how do you expect other republicans to react? we've heard crickets out of them for the most part. but what's your take on how they respond here? but what's>> you know, i cannott how they will behave ever. because watching -- first of all, watching the january 6th hearings, which by the way, was one of the top 20 television shows of the year on a poll, i cannot believe there has been such utter silence from the republicans.
and come on, this is the united states of america. when you talk about discarding parts of the constitution, when so many of the members of your staff and support system have been jailed, and you are standing there with no accountability? i mean, come on already. it's, it's got to happen. and somebody has to -- i mean, thank god for kinzinger and and cheney. i just don't understand how people cannot stand up for the rule of law, and for the sanctity in the democracy of this country. i don't understand it, i don't understand it. so, i can't predict what the republicans are going to do. i have no idea. >> yeah, i kind of know that feeling. >> they shocked. me [laughter] . >> i kind of know that feeling.
i am relating to you on that point. panel, please stick around. next, the biden 2024 strategy is already ramping up. we're going to get into it. get into it ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ this cough. [sfx: coughs] this'll help. vicks vaporub? vicks vaporub's ...medicated vapors go straight to the source of your cough... ...so you can relieve your cough to breathe easier. vicks vaporub. fast-acting cough relief. before we begin, i'd like to thank our sponsor, liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. and by switching, you could even save $652. thank you, liberty mutual. now, contestants ready? go!
♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ >> new today from nbc news, according to white house officials, president biden plans to speak to the american people this week before the christmas holiday and new year about what he sees as his major accomplishments since taking office. that comes just days after the white house held a series of closed-door meetings, from which democratic strategist and activists came up with an emphatic message, go out and sell president biden's record. it's the latest sign that biden is preparing to mount a reelection campaign. according to nbc news, a battery of senior white house officials deliver presentations on biden's tenure and give briefings on the economy, climate change, and the way
forward. and political reports that biden aides have been working with outside advisers to sketch out components of a reelection ramp up, including obama alumnus jim messina, with whom the president has discussed pulling in recent weeks, according to two people familiar with his involvement. and quote, they are also reengaging donors and zeroing in on key staff roles and hires to fortify a unit that could operate outside the close knit group that runs operations at the white house. my panel is back with me. so basil, there is a whole lot of flutter and twitter here, what is it about? people are going about the business of getting this thing started. so is biden, you know, going to be the guy who can actually sell? is he effective at selling his own accomplishments? >> while, i think he. is the most important point that you made in the lead up to this is that they are recruiting surrogates to do the
work also. i mean, that's an incredibly important function here. because, look, when you think about 2020 and then the midterms, this may be the closest that democrats are getting to re-instituting, reconstituting that original obama coalition. it's not gonna be the same. there's no question about that. totally and different candidate. but given the role that independents played in the midterms, it's a great time to not just have, you know, democratic loyalists, but, you know, others who are maybe more moderate or independent, be able to go there and talk about joe biden's record. i mean, that was a big part of why democrats did so well during the midterms. but let's also be clear on the other side, if maga republicans do what maga republicans do, he is going to have a pretty good foil that they'll be able to sort of use as a lever and a
wedge going into the presidential. so, he's in a pretty good position right now. >> susan, is he? i mean, think about. it he's gotta go out and sell his accomplishments. but then he's got a deal with the raucous gop, the infighting inside the gop is definitely going to spill out and everybody is going to get splattered. in addition, they're going to be coming after the administration on some of those accomplishments. what do you think, how do you think the president does in this effort to sell what he's accomplished? >> well, i would tap into what basil talked about in using surrogates. i think will be much more effective. and frankly, with the president giving his state of the union next month, he should save it for that. and he could really set himself up for a really important speech going into what will be the presidential cycle. i also wonder if, you know, biden and his people should be a little concerned from what we're seeing in trump, meeting people want to say goodbye to
trump. they also are willing to say goodbye to biden if it means a new future of leadership within the democratic party. so, i think that should also be on the presidents mind. and be careful about taking a victory lap too early. again, save it for the state of the union. >> yeah [laughter] yes, exactly, i think that's an appropriate point to mate. and judy, that kind of leans into the question about the team's plans to use trump's words against him, including his recent comments about terminating the constitution. but as we've seen, that strategy oftentimes doesn't work. i mean, strategically, how do they push back up against the republicans impressing the case for biden's accomplishments, and the potential opportunity for a second term? >> well, i think that i agree with both basil and susan.
i do think that people are sick of trump. but i do believe we could take a page from the republicans on how to tout all of your accomplishments, even if they're not true accomplishments, and they're just lies. i think that we have to drive home how much he has accomplished in the last two years. and look at this, the midterms, where history making. i think we have to focus on the positive. i think we hand use that negatif when it is needed to fight back. and we can be good at this. our messaging, the democrats messaging is not great. >> [laughter] . >> but hire some comedians, hire some comedians. >> judy, you sound like you're trying to convince yourself. we can be good at this.
i know we can. >> we could do it, i know we could. >> we are the little engine that could and can. >> we're just getting our own way. >> [laughter] i love it, i love it. okay panel, stick around as we figure out if we can do this. coming up, senate democrats finally have subpoena power. to judy's point, what will they do with it? ll the do with it to keep it together. now there's new theraflu flu relief with a max strength fever fighting formula. the right tool for long lasting flu symptom relief. hot beats flu. ♪ ♪ the mercedes-benz isong last turning electric...ef. completely on its head. bringing legendary design... and state-of-the-art technology... to a fully-electric suv. the all-new, all-electric eqb from mercedes-benz.
a series of mostly fringe investigation into pet issues or conspiracies, senate democrats are preparing to respond by wielding their newfound subpoena power. political reports that now that senate democrats have an outright majority in the next legislative session, they intend to use the investigative authority as a counter point to the house gop's probes of hunter biden and the biden ministration's withdrawal from afghanistan. this would be democrats way of flipping the script, so to speak, by shining a light on trump and corruption within the republican party, as former republican congressional spokes person kurt bardella writes in an op-ed for the los angeles times, quote, there is no reason senate democrats should not turn the tables on republicans by finally investing in the conflicts of interest created by donald trump, ivanka trump, and jared kushner during their time in the white house. let's bring back our sunday night panel. susan, do you see senate
democrats successfully flipping the script on republicans? that's never happened. [laughter] . >> it shouldn't happened. democrats should not act like republicans to be successful. they need to act like democrats. and with that subpoena power, they can also do some good, like look into some of the issues that caused the supply chain issues and other things that might help this administration. i'd also like to highlight that, you know, the biden administration is one of the most successful two years any president has had. they've got so much done. and they did it because they got republican by in to move stuff out of the committees, which were done under a power sharing agreement, it was 50/50 representation. and they were able to move stuff. i honestly wonder if they didn't have that in the first two years, would anything have gotten done? but as we're looking forward, i think there are some targeted
things they should do, they should do investigations into corruption absolutely, but also we hold it for the power of good, if you will. >> the power of good, that fleeting concept. basil, the political piece also -- considering cutting the baton from house democrats investigating trump's, donald trump's tax returns, and the oil industry's culpability when it comes to climate change. so, the question is, will senate democrats be able to fill that investigative void now that democrats have lost control of the house, and pick up that process in the senate? >> yeah, i kind of piggyback on susan's point here. as long as democrats use it for good and not evil, he was a superhero reference, then i actually think that the american people will look at that and say this is a good use of political power. but if they are doing it, essentially, to just counter everything the republicans do, then nothing is going to get done.
and everybody in d.c. is going to have a subpoena and be hauled in front of a committee. that sort of dueling trials and hearings, it's not good for american voter. it's not why the vote is particularly independent voters performed the way they did during the midterms. so, i do think if it's used wisely to get down to the meat and colonel of some important policy issues that affected a lot of those moderate and independent voters, then i think you have something. there i will say very quickly, for all those text messages that were sent to and from mark meadows, there are probably 100 that we didn't see. so, if there is an opportunity for democrats to actually open the door a bit on that, sort of exposed the length and breadth of this sort of mega community that was involved in the insurrection, talking about, then i think you're getting something.
so i appreciate both susan and basil's approach here. to the strategic area the democratic party, but julianna flip this one to you. republicans are gutted steamrolling democrat some messaging, i think that's been very clear when it comes to probes and the like, we saw with, benghazi the hillary clinton emails. how do you assess the democrats going into this new environment where they've got strong control in the house no control in the senate, strong control in the senate, no control in the house. what do you think they've learned about finding effectively on that battlefield? >> you know. i'm michael have been waiting for them to learn how to fight.
hopefully, they learn something. i think that, i think the tweet, we've got to use their stuff against them. the house judiciary, gop tweet, kanye, elon trump. that says a lot. let's see you said, let's use it. let's not forget that. and let's also not forget, we can't be tiptoeing around, we can't -- we don't want to be mean to someone. we want to be politically correct. we need to fight, i think we need to fight. and you're absolutely right about the messaging, we do need to take a page from their playbook. and stop behaving too nice. can i say that? >> tonight. i mean you can be too nice, nice is good in politics i think. right, susan? >> it hasn't, worked no. i do appreciate, i love that biden is very bipartisan -- we need to be realistic to.
>> i was gonna say, judy, that's the point. we need to be realistic and there is a high-level strategy, believe it or, not that's involved in the republican side and how they prosecute these cases. suzanne, republicans have generally been better at beating that same drum over and over again. and pulling that message out, that message ball if you will away from democrats. why do you think that is, in light of what you've laid out, why do you think they're so good at that and democrats apparently fall for at the way that they do? >> because republicans look for
the easy connection to the general public. that's what they go far, they don't try to investigate and explain why things are so important. and tell you why the properties of the sequel that, they just go to the got at the matter, or that they think unemotionally tie to the public. i will say, when you look at committees and what was successful, i do believe that liz cheney knowing how republicans run select committees, had a lot to offer the january six committee. it's no accident she was vice chair, she really led out of fight, how republicans -- like we did on the lincoln project. we brought it there. you go to it. and i think she delivered an of a, lot it's not to take -- my any measure. but she, knew getting the republicans testimony, and those hearings would really work. and that was part of the
strategy -- and that's the connection. >> we why is sage, -- who shows a very duty christmas will be at standup new york on christmas day, at four pam and seven pam eastern. i thank you also much for the conversation. next, adam kinzinger are gives one hell of a good bye to his republican colleagues. you don't want to miss it.
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proceeding, conspiracy to defraud the government, and inciting or assisting an insurrection. adam kinzinger sits on that committee. he was also one of just ten house republicans who voted to impeach trump after the attack on the capitol. out of those ten republicans, only two were reelected. the first either lost or races, or the rest either lost the races, or like kissinger, left office at the end of their term. this week kissinger -- farewell speech on the house floor. where he condemned his party's dissent into authoritarianism. and warned of ongoing risks to democracy. >> we must not a baton or values or beliefs in the u.s. constitution. we all swore i know. in this very chamber. to support and defend the constitution of the united states, not a political party, and not a single man. let us renew this belief, while
casting out those who take the unprecedented call to abolish this sacred document. more republicans once believed that limited government met lower taxes, more autonomy. today, limited government means inciting violence against government officials. our leaders today but a little and in some cases justify attacks on the u.s. capitol, as quote, legitimate political discourse. the once great party of lincoln, roosevelt, and reagan. has turned its back on the ideals of liberty and self governance. instead, it's embrace flies. and the. see the republican party used to believe in a -- what she welcomed -- the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free. now, they shelter the ignorant, the racist, you only stoke anger and hatred to those who are different than. as we live in a world where lies trump truths. more democracy is being
challenged by authoritarianism. if we elected leaders don't surgeon ourselves for a way out, i fear that this great experiment will fall under the ashes of history. for millions of americans, looking for solutions, not lies it's up to us to ensure that the ship does not stop. had i known that standing up for truth would cost me my job, friendships, and even my personal security. i would without hesitation -- do it all over again. i can rest easy and i, knowing that i fulfilled my oath to the office. >> indeed you have, my friend. i speak for all of us when i say, thank you for your work. and your service, congressman. and thank you for making time for us tonight, catch a game in, on msnbc saturdays at aipac, and sundays at nine. until we meet again, i'm michael steele, in for my
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