>> tonight on all in. this is not typical to charge a member of congress, and neither is the way the justice department rolled it out. donald trump's personal lawyer charges a sitting member of congress. >> we were assaulted. the mayor was arrested. he was walked back through the facility, through the back gate. and then we still waited for our tour. >> newark mayor ras baraka, on what he saw that day and his experience with trump's justice system. >> then you. >> are cutting. >> programs and firing staff with no plan and no understanding of what the department you are leading even does for the american people. >> senator tammy baldwin on the damage being done by rfk junior's hhs. plus, speaking of no understanding. >> habeas corpus is a

constitutional right that the president has. >> to be able. >> to remove. >> people from this country. >> excuse me? >> that's that's incorrect. >> when all in starts. right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the regime is prosecuting opposition legislators sentence. whose implications? you immediately understand whenever it comes up in an account from some foreign country somewhere in the world. right. hallmark of authoritarian regimes. and now it happens to be true here in the united states, because donald trump's former personal lawyer, alina habba, the interim u.s. attorney forery, who has not been confirmed by the senate and has no real qualifications for the job, has filed very obviously trumped up federal criminal charges against a sitting democratic congresswoman, lamonica mciver of new jersey. those charges include allegedly assaulting, impeding and interfering with law enforcement outside an ice detention facility. earlier this month, we

learned about all this. not from a court filing, no, but from habba herself announcing she was charging mciver on social media this morning. the department of justice basically never does this. in fact, that appears to be how congresswoman learned of those charges to. >> you think they're trying to intimidate you? >> that's the. >> obvious, right? okay. >> were you made aware of these charges. >> before it. >> was put on twitter? that's how. >> you found out? >> correct. >> now, congressman mciver is going to be on jen psaki in the next hour. stick around for that. showed up to that ice facility in newark, new jersey, with two colleagues from the state's congressional delegation on may 9th. we were covering it here on our program, and they were there to tour the facility and check the conditions of roughly 100 detainees. now, to be really clear here, this is an important aspect of the story. this is an explicit statutory

authority legally granted binding in law, that members of congress have to conduct unannounced oversight visits to those facilities. and the reason it exists in the law is it was put in in 2019, following the first trump administration's child separation policies. so the three members of congress were there, along with newark mayor ras baraka, who said he had reports the facility was in violation of multiple municipal and state laws. he, of course, is the mayor of the city that has to license these facilities. mayor baraka is going to join me in just a couple of minutes. and for more than two hours, they stood around the facility getting conflicting reports from officials on when and whether they would get their tour. and then officials told mayor baraka he was trespassing. he moved outside the gates of the facility, and a scrum broke out as masked and armed federal law enforcement officers in a variety of outfits and uniforms from a variety of agencies moved in to arrest mayor baraka.

>> i, along with congressman menendez and congresswoman bonnie watson coleman, was there to literally do our jobs. we are members of congress. we are able to show up and do oversight, statutory visits, and that's what we were there for. and then all of this commotion happened. we were trying to figure out why they were so hostile, why they were so aggressive, why they were pushing and shoving. >> now, here are the still images from that scrum. prosecutors included in their complaint against macgyver. they called them representative stills of macgyver's forcible contact with agents and officers. that would be the unarmed woman in the red jacket next to the heavily armed members of federal law enforcement. now, those still images are taken from a video. here's what the video shows. macgyver in red facing baraka, the new york mayor attempting to shield him from an arrest that has no justification. you can see that she gets jostled and

throttled in that recording. in the aftermath, mciver told reporters she and her colleagues were assaulted by multiple ice agents. the prosecutors are trying to make the opposite case that macgyver assaulted law enforcement with her back to them. you know, the way you do. the thing is, those officers who mciver allegedly assaulted and impeded, they didn't arrest her on the spot. you know what they did do? they let mciver and her congressional colleagues into the facility as legally required, and gave them the tour as legally required. as she told me on this show on the night in question. so you did not get into that facility today? >> so we ended up getting into the facility after they was, you know, harassed us, basically shoved us, did all of that performance, arrested the mayor? they then allowed us to have an oversight visit and took us on a tour of the facility. >> yeah, they gave her a tour. now, weirdly, you won't find that in the government's complaint, but it is true. those same officers who arrested

mciver assaulted them, then escorted mciver and her colleagues into the facility for their completely legal oversight tour. something doesn't quite add up here, right? almost as if the prosecutor again, former trump defense lawyer alina habba is making this stuff up on the fly. remember, the thing that set this all off was those officers sort of suddenly announcing they were arresting the newark mayor, ras baraka, for allegedly trespassing? habba wrote on social media he has willingly chosen to disregard the law that will not stand in this state. okay, but then last night, get this habba announced she was. oh yeah. dropping the charges against baraka. even as she charged congresswoman mciver. now, to state the obvious, none of this is how an impartial, apolitical department of justice or u.s. attorney's office. justice. it's all completely fakakta, totally anomalous. from announcing charges on twitter before

they're actually filed to charging a member of congress for being in the middle of a scrum while she was trying to do her job. it only makes sense if you remember that alina habba, who like kristi noem, the department of homeland security, got dressed up in a swat team costume and went on raids with u.s. marshals and a new york post camera crew has zero experience as a prosecutor. before trump nominated her to run the district of new jersey and gave her the job in an acting fashion where she doesn't have to be confirmed by the senate. her main well, only qualification is loyalty. her last big gig was representing trump against a successful defamation suit by e jean carroll, the woman who, in new york civil jury concluded had been sexually abused by donald trump in 1996. this is today. well, not today, this week. a new step in trump's corruption. the department of justice. he's already pardoned political allies, including people convicted of seditious conspiracy and violently assaulting police officers.

right. he's purged prosecutors who investigate the capitol insurrection. other prosecutors have lost their job when they've questioned the corrupt deal with eric adams just last week. get this. trump's fbi got rid of its elite public corruption unit, which handled investigations into members of congress, of both parties under multiple administrations with no political interference. again, the whole point of that unit, the whole point of a series of procedures and norms in the department of justice, is to wall off federal law enforcement, which is a very powerful tool from the whims of a president or his obsession with loyalty, or for it to be utilized solely as a political weapon. but of course, that's what's happened here. donald trump has converted the department of justice into a personal armed concierge service to deal with people he deems undesirable. joining me now is ross baraka, mayor of newark and a democratic governor, democratic candidate for governor of new jersey. mayor,

it's good to have you on the program. first, just as someone who was there that day, your reaction to the announcement of these charges? >> well, honestly, i think the congresswoman will be vindicated when people see the video from the beginning to the end. you'll see actually what happened in there. this is a lot of theater that's going on, that's been going on for some time. and obviously when this thing gets to court, i think she'll be completely vindicated. i didn't see her do anything wrong while she was there at all. all i hear was people yelling, get your hands off her! get your hands off her! get your hands off her! i mean, that's what's that's that's what sticks in my head the entire time. >> i want to play for you what the president said today defending this. he had some interesting words he kept talking about woke somewhat inexplicably. but i'm gonna play it for you and have a look. and i want to get your response is what the president said.

>> d.o.j. weaponizing. >> with the arrest of. >> congresswoman democratic congresswoman. >> give me a break. did you see her? she was out of control. did you know those days are over? the days are woke. the days of woke. no i didn't, the days of woke are over. that woman. i don't i have no idea who she is. that woman was out of control. she was shoving federal agents. she was out of control. the days of that crap are over in this country. we're going to have law and order. >> you understand what the president said? the days of woke are over in reference to criminal charges against a sitting member of congress. >> right, right. >> being woke is not a crime. it's actually the opposite of being sleep. it means being aware and being focused and understanding what's going on around you. i mean, the fact that he used that kind of identifies that this is political. the target of it is political. it's political retribution. it is focusing on people who he thinks disagrees with him, his philosophy, the direction he wants to take, the

country he's saying woke. and along with criminal charges at the same time, really kind of devalues the whole process in the first place. and it really speaks to this kind of authoritarianism that we're experiencing in this country right now. >> you were arrested on that day, and i think somewhat inexplicably, your your they said you were trespassing. and then this sort of turn of events in which those charges against you are dropped right before these charges are announced. i want to read to you what what the acting u.s. attorney in new jersey had to say. after extensive consideration, we have agreed to dismiss mayor baraka's misdemeanor charge of trespass for the sake of moving forward. in the spirit of public interest, i've invited the mayor to tour delaney hall. the government has nothing to hide at this facility. i will personally accompany the mayor so he can see that firsthand. do you understand why the charges are dropped? are you going to get get into that facility? >> well, i mean, the charges

were baseless, and facility, ani and i and i would love to have a tour, but it's not about me touring it. i mean, it's not disney world. we were there basically to get the inspections done. they began to let our inspectors in. we're still in court arguing and about the idea of them needing a certificate of occupancy in order to move forward. that was our basic contention from the beginning, and the fact they weren't letting our inspectors in. and this was a conflict we were having with the geo group and not with the government or ice, because geo group owns the property. so our contention was with them. how it turned into all of this is beyond me. >> yeah. just to be clear, the geo group is a is a sort of third party vendor and contractor does a lot on the immigration side. and in terms of immigration detention facilities, they own that property. they run that property. it was your your

contention that they did not have a certificate of occupancy, which folks, i think who've ever run a business or, you know, apartment or house, know you need to have one. so and your municipal inspectors were not let in and you're just saying that they're just out of line, like they are out of code with the city of newark at a basic, sortabout which way we go forwa, who's right and who's wrong. nobody else has the right to make that decision except a judge, and we were in the process of doing that, in fact. and they made and they made a decision to do what they did. so and we're still in court, as a matter of fact. >> now, my understanding, is it right? and correct me if i'm wrong here, but that you were offered a plea deal by this acting u.s. attorney elena harbor on your own charges, and you said, no, i didn't do anything. is that right? >> no. i mean, ultimately, the lawyers are discussed what it

would mean to drop the charges, and we agreed together to drop those charges, to dismiss them. and we got to an amenable place, and we did it right. and so i'm glad that they made the decision to do that. i thought the charges were baseless in the first place. and so we get a chance to move on. but unfortunately, we have to now organize around what's going on with the congresswoman, who is the representative of my district, congressional district number ten, who is now under these more baseless accusations as well. >> yeah, i want to just read what the congresswoman said this morning about. she basically says, look, they're trying to get me to plea to roll over, right? and i didn't do anything wrong. take a listen to what she had to say. >> well, the justice department and elena hopper wanted me to admit to doing something that i did not do, and i was not going to do that. once again. i came there to do my job and conduct an oversight visit, and they wanted me to say something differently, and i'm not doing that.

>> do you agree with that characterization? i imagine, i imagine, do you think it's a good idea that she not plead to something? >> yeah, i don't think she did anything. i mean, and you can't make people confess to something they didn't do. that's what we have court for. i think the video is clear. there's enough witnesses that were there, you know, and i think that she's going to be vindicated. i think it's silly. and in the overall sense, as was stated on this is a kind of weaponization of the department of justice, the us attorney's office, to target individuals because they disagree with them. and that's really authoritarian. and we should get away from that as far as way as we possibly can. >> newark mayor ras baraka, who was there that day, apprehended and then released charges dropped within the last 24 hours. thank you very much. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> it was another really rough >> it was another really rough day. after a string of them oh don't forget dinner with my boss. ah great. our new ultimate adhesive will save the day.

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order@nuts.com weekdays. >> ana cabrera from 10 a.m. to noon, chris jansen from noon to 2 p.m. and katy tur from 2 p.m. to four. msnbc reports weekdays on msnbc. >> this is. >> a big one. the second major. >> of. >> the year for the best in senior golf. always some. great stories here at this event. the special week indeed. the senior pga. >> championship on nbc and peacock. >> secretary kennedy, whose decision is it to withhold thousands of grants and billions in funding for life saving medical research at nih that we approved on a bipartisan basis in this subcommittee? >> we are not abandoning. >> any life saving. saving research. >> is funding for. >> alzheimer's disease. research centers die because you're holding up $65 million for 14 of

those centers in nine states, including the university of wisconsin-madison, is funding for cancer centers die? >> what have. >> you. >> done about it? what have you done about the. epidemic of chronic disease. >> mr. secretary? what have. >> you done about the epidemic. >> of. >> chronic disease? >> seriously, madam. >> secretary. >> i would ask you to. hold back and let senator ask the questions. >> mr. secretary. >> i'm asking. >> you. >> a question. >> about child care. i'm asking you who made the decision to withhold. >> child care and. development block grant funding? >> that was made by my department. >> rfk jr. the man who's been arguably the most destructive member of donald trump's cabinet and it's competitive, was before the senate again today, where he was grilled about cutting billions of dollars in life saving medical research. >> you are cutting programs and firing staff with no plan and no understanding of what the department you are leading even does for the american people. >> senator tammy baldwin, democrat of wisconsin, is

ranking member of the appropriations subcommittee that held today's hearing. and she joins us now. good to have you, senator. >> it's great to join you. >> thanks for. having me. >> you know, your line of questioning today focused on something that has been really eating at me and kind of driving me nuts. so i would love for you to explain this as an appropriator. my understanding of all of this funding is that it was appropriated by the senate and the house, and fairly granularly like this is something that folks like yourself are pretty invested in, and there's actually pretty specific line items for what this research is and who it goes to. it seems that billions of dollars of it have been unilaterally canceled. is that to start out, is it even lawful? like, can they do what they have done? >> so let's start. >> with the lawfulness. >> the constitution. >> provides that congress makes laws and passes appropriation. bills that carry the weight.

>> of law. and that the. >> administration, including the secretary of health and human. >> services, should. >> administer those. >> funds, should implement our laws. and we are finding out. >> and it's not easy. >> to uncover this because they are not being. >> transparent, but. >> we are finding out that they have refused to fund over. 3000 research projects. >> that they. are quite. short of what we. >> included in our. appropriations measures. >> in terms of funding biomedical research through nih. and then we're. >> also finding out which. >> is equally. >> as disturbing. is. >> that. >> they have fired top experts and. scientists across. >> health and human. >> services, and we have no report on that. so, yes, when they fail to spend. money that congress has appropriated, that is called impoundment. >> and it is illegal, and. >> we. need to press. in court.

>> about those issues. >> but i. >> also really. >> fear that rfk. >> junior is doing, in some cases, possibly irreparable. >> harm to. >> agencies within health and human services that. >> even if we are. >> able to appropriate on a bipartisan basis moving forward. >> it will. >> be hard. to repair the damage that has been done this year. >> one of the themes here that's on the question of sort of the lawfulness constitutionality, but then there are also just the tangible effects of this. i mean, the us is the biggest spends more on biomedical research than any other country in the world. it is the center for that. people come from all over the world for that reason. it is one of the things the us does arguably better than any country on earth. i want to play for you what your colleague senator durbin, asked about, and then get your reaction, because it doesn't seem to me very maddeningly like the secretary actually is explaining what's

going on. so here's secretary durbin. senator durbin, i would love to get your response. take a listen. >> how can we possibly address his concerns and give hope to people across the country who are suffering for so many diseases? when our government is cutting back on that research? as i said, senator, i do not know about any cuts to als research, and i'm happy to just read them to you. >> so this. >> this keeps coming up. you say you're cutting research. he says, i didn't know about that. he sort of dodges as opposed to saying, yes, we are. and here's why. is that. what is going on? i guess my question. >> look. >> biomedical research is. >> being cut severely and it. >> has real. >> consequences for my constituents. for people across the united states. >> i mean, we read the. >> headline last week. >> about a. >> nine and a half. >> month old. >> being saved by gene editing therapy that was developed by the nih. >> most children with the same

condition would die within weeks. >> or months of birth. >> we know that immunotherapies and. >> other therapies that. >> have been. >> recently developed are saving tens of thousands of. >> lives, and if we lose. >> our cutting edge, we will also. >> lose our. >> brightest and best. minds to other countries, to other careers. and so. >> this is. >> a very. >> damaging set of actions that. >> are. >> being taken right now, and lives are in the balance. >> final question on this, i just it's never you serve on this committee. it's never struck me as this being in a country that's very divided and polarized and sometimes have really deeply felt ideological battles on stuff that like cancer funding, alzheimer's funding, als funding, research, basic research, it's always struck me as a very consensus, bipartisan position. i think i've been surprised by what's happened here. like, are you like, did you see this coming?

and what are the republicans say about this? >> so many of my republican colleagues are. speaking out and are drawing a line at this. particular agency. >> within health. >> and human. >> services because of the incredibly important. >> function that. >> it serves. >> and the. >> fact that it. really does. >> create life saving cures and treatments because of the investment we've made. you know, we've built up. >> over decades. >> the function that is now. undertaken by. the national institutes. of health. and in 100 days, this administration has greatly diminished that leadership and that organization. and we must fight back. and i think we will do that. >> on a bipartisan basis. >> senator tammy baldwin, i'd love to have you back to talk about this medicaid, the medicaid cuts and stuff like that. if you're willing to come back in the next few weeks.

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month. call 1-833-735-4495 or visit homeserve.com. >> congress shall make no. >> law respecting an. >> establishment of religion. >> or prohibiting. >> the free exercise. >> thereof. >> or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press. >> or the right of the. people

peaceably. >> to assemble. and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. >> on friday, the supreme court temporarily blocked the trump administration from using a centuries old wartime law to rendition people in this country to a gulag in el salvador. the court also ordered the administration to give people time to challenge their removal and exercise their due process rights. now, the trump white house is facing near constant rebukes from the courts at every level in an ongoing standoff over its immigration agenda. and the administration continues to escalate tensions by, for instance, arresting a sitting member of congress or charging a sitting member of congress. i should say. this week, the justice department issued charges against congresswoman lamonica mciver over her oversight visit to an ice facility in new jersey earlier

this month. now, today, the head of the department of homeland security, of course, that's the agency of the government overseeing all this. kristi noem was before the senate, where she had to answer for this administration's extreme. and in many cases, it seems to me, facially illegal deportation tactics. but she couldn't even answer a very basic question about one of the pillars of anglo-saxon law going back millennia. and our constitution related to due process. >> secretary nome. >> what is habeas corpus? >> well, habeas corpus is a constitutional right that the president has. >> to be able to remove people from this. >> country, suspend their right. let me let me stop you. suspend habeas corpus. >> excuse me. >> that's that's incorrect. >> i'm joined now by jon tester, who served as a democratic senator from montana for 18 years. he's now an msnbc political analyst. i wanted to call you senator. i guess i'm just going to call you jon. >> perfect. >> okay, well that works. okay.

well, let me ask you this. you served three terms in the senate, and you had a lot of opportunities to have members of the administration come before you in hearings. republican, democrat, cabinet level, subcabinet level. as someone who's covered this, it seems to me there is just a night and day difference between the quality of these folks and what they know in this administration and what had been the norm before that. like kristi noem seems on her own category. is that does that jibe with your experience? >> absolutely. especially after. watching the previous segment that you had with robert f kennedy jr. same thing with kristi noem. >> they got to do their homework. it's part of their job. >> to know. >> what's going on and what's going on. >> in their agencies. and for. >> secretary noem to. >> say that. >> she doesn't. >> know what habeas corpus is and what due process is, and in fact, goes further than that and actually gives the wrong definition for it shows me that.

>> they either aren't they're not taking congress seriously, and congress. >> has oversight. >> which they should. >> take very seriously, by the way, because if. >> congress ever took their power back, that they've given to the executive. >> branch, that they would. >> once again be. >> able to hold these people to. >> to the. >> standards that we've been used to during the 18 years i was there. and we had some really good people who headed homeland security, and we had some really. >> good people who headed health and human services. but unfortunately right now, those and some others, by the way. >> really haven't done their homework. and i don't think they understand the jobs that they are. >> that. >> they were confirmed. >> to do. this point you made, i want to stay on for a second, this sort of institutional prerogatives, that again, in the time that i've covered congress, look, there's a sort of partizan access that the members of the president's party are way more, you know, amenable to that president, to that white house. the other party is way more antagonistic. but also there's a kind of fyfe effect, right? we

come together and we appropriate these funds or we put this into law because we expect you to do x, y and z. that seems so far gone in this congress in a way that i've never seen before. and i wonder what your if that feels the same to you, that there's something different here now. >> yeah. >> i think the. >> congress has. >> ceded all their power to the executive branch. >> they have ceded it all. >> and now, look, they're doing. >> oversight hearings, and that's good. >> but the truth of the. >> matter is, is the president can do anything. he wants right now. >> and congress doesn't step up and say, whoa, whoa, whoa. that's not your authority. that's not our authority. that's our decision to make. tariffs is a prime example. that's our decision to make. it's not yours. and consequently we don't have three co-equal branches of. >> government anymore. >> what we've got is. >> we've got an. executive branch. >> we've got a legislative branch that's awol. and i know those folks. they're good people. they know better than this. dig up robert c byrd. he would give you a lecture on why the legislative. branch is so

important if we're going to maintain a democracy. and then, of course, we have the courts, and the courts are trying to. >> do their job, i believe so far, if the executive. branch listens to them and follows their orders. >> that that point on the tariffs, i mean, it really is astounding. the president on the big tariff announcement day, essentially announced, not essentially announced, the largest tax hike unilaterally in basically 60 years in dollar terms. he's continued to essentially, you know, futz around. he pauses. one he jacks this one up. he brings this one down. you know, you wrote this in the montana. you know, this is some of the stuff of how this is playing in montana. you've got montana farmers who see canadian trade drying up, troubled by tariffs. the effects are hitting them left and right. and you've also said that, you know that this mega bill is a disaster. but i wonder what you think about what congress should be doing about these tariffs and what it means for the folks that you used to represent. well.

>> congress should take their, their. >> their, their power. >> back and. >> they should be the. >> one applying the tariffs. i have more confidence in. >> in congress doing the job. >> right than i do president. >> trump, because. >> quite frankly. >> he's botched this up pretty badly. >> and in a state like in an agricultural state, an agricultural state like montana. and many others. >> you get in a trade war. >> guess who the biggest losers are there? >> the farmers. and that's why this farm bill that. >> that came out of the house, that's going to go into reconciliation is so. >> bad, it's. you don't want the market. >> to. >> be. >> replaced by subsidies. >> that's not what farmers want. they want to go to the marketplace. they want to get a fair price for their product, and they don't want a bunch of handouts by the federal government. and that's exactly what's going on here. instead of fixing. >> the root problem. >> and the root problem. >> is, is we need those. markets and we need. >> competition in. >> that marketplace. >> what we're going to do is we're going to hand out hundreds of millions of. >> dollars to. >> farmers to try to make them. >> whole because.

>> of the screw ups that this administration has done. yeah. it's so crazy. you wrote about this for msnbc. you know, that the same house republicans who decry socialism, on one hand, are pushing american farmers to take more money from the government, less from the marketplace, which sounds a lot like socialism to me. we had this in the first trump administration, when the sort of trade war skirmish with china, and they just sent a bunch of checks to farmers. it was just such a bizarre thing to replace actually growing product and selling it to not selling it and then getting checks from the government, which just doesn't seem like what anyone wants to be doing, including the farmers. >> and it shouldn't be something. >> that. >> congress wants to do either. it's not sustainable. and quite frankly, in this reconciliation. >> bill. >> you know, they're. >> increasing the national debt. >> with it. i mean, really i mean, you're going to cut all these services and then and you're going. >> to give checks to farmers. >> you're going to increase the national debt, and you're going to. >> give. >> tax breaks to the uber. >> rich in this country. >> look. congress has not been

exactly stellar in the work they've done. >> the time. >> i was there, you would oftentimes shake your head as to what they did and what they didn't do. >> but the bottom line. >> is, is they could do a better job of what's being done right now by the executive branch, but that needs to be done in a bipartisan way, and it needs to. you need to listen to everybody, and you need to come up with common ground, and then you move forward with bills that make sense. you don't just say, president trump, it's yours. >> we're not. >> going to do it anymore. we're not going to we're not. >> going to do. >> what the forefathers intended and have three coequal branches, coequal. >> branches of. >> government, which is what they need to do. >> jon tester, who's got a long, long experience dealing with all this. i appreciate you coming on tonight. we'll see you again soon, i hope. >> always a pleasure, chris. thank you. >> all right. coming up. as disaster strikes in red states across the country, donald trump doesn't exactly send in the help. that's ahead. >> you've waited all week for this. introducing the all new,

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republican holdouts it was time to get in line. although it's not entirely clear if he sealed the deal yet, which makes sense. i mean, johnson has relied on this strategy before to much more success than his republican predecessors, who, by the way, didn't have a sitting republican president. but there are still a bunch of actual, real, genuine internal contradictions within the republican house conference. that's exactly what makes legislating so hard. it's the messiness of democracy. not every problem is easily resolved through a sharp eyed executive order, or donald trump's cult of personality. and that is actually the subject of my podcast, why is this happening? this week where i speak with arjun singh, he's the co-host of the lever time podcast, who's been doing a special series on the decades long tax revolt that has fueled the republican party and brought us to the moment they are now in. >> i think. >> you're actually seeing a. >> very interesting. >> moment between. >> the republican. >> activists who have. >> in their estimation, built. >> this party. i mean, you're

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>> what are your fears as this disinformation makes. >> its way into. >> the bloodstream. >> of america? >> no president, certainly this. >> century or last, has. >> ever done. >> this morning show weekdays 6 to 10 on msnbc. >> last week, 19 people were killed by devastating tornadoes in the state of kentucky, which has been dealing with extreme weather over the last few months. now, usually after storms like this, fema shows up to help the federal emergency management agency, but as of now, that does not appear to have happened, at least in any really meaningful way, even as the state's democratic governor, andy beshear, insists that kentucky needs the help. we're going to need a lot of help. we're going to need a lot of funding. we're going to need a lot of cooperation. but we will not abandon the people that have. >> been impacted. we're going to. >> stand with them. the governor says he has been in contact with the president about an emergency

declaration, yet no emergency declaration has happened yet. meanwhile, mississippi is still waiting for fema assistance from a number of devastating tornadoes that hit that state more than two months ago. republican senator josh hawley of missouri says his state has three outstanding requests for federal disaster declarations. now, it's a little unclear what exactly is happening, because we're not getting any kind of public communication about this. but we know the trump administration has been trying to effectively end fema, get rid of it, or at least end it as we know it. trump himself has said he's considering it. >> i'll also be signing an executive order to begin the process of fundamentally reforming and overhauling fema, or maybe getting rid of fema. i think, frankly, fema is not good. >> in fact, earlier this month, trump fired his own acting fema director, the person he put in the position because he wouldn't go along with the plan to shut down his own agency. congressman jared moskowitz is a democrat of

florida. he served as florida's director of emergency management under governor ron desantis. and he joins me now. congressman, it's good to have you on. >> thanks for having me, chris. >> so first, i want to just start at the policy level, because i think one way you can view these, sort of the lack of disaster declarations, the lack of fema personnel on the ground in these places, whether it's in missouri, mississippi or kentucky, is things are falling through the cracks or incompetence. but it does seem that actually there's a policy agenda here, which is this is not the federal government's job. we want to get rid of fema, and the states can figure it out themselves. is that your understanding of what the trump administration approach is to emergency disaster response? >> oh, chris, you're being kind. you're pretending like there's a plan here. you know, look. >> there there is. you know, always a. >> push pull, i think, in the staff and the administration between the sane and the insane.

and i think the sane people in the administration know that you got to keep fema. it needs reform. look. >> the president's correct that fema. >> needs to be reformed. the emergency management industry has been saying that for a long time. one of those reforms is to get it out of homeland, which is too bureaucratic, it's too big. it's using fema to do all sorts of grants on immigration that they shouldn't be doing. and fema's lost. its focus on response and recovery. it's why fema has gotten slower. and so people have known fema needs reform. but then. >> you have these folks, you know, that are in the. >> administration that, you know, want to. >> talk about. >> eliminating fema. let me let me be clear. if you eliminate fema, red states are in very big trouble. louisiana and mississippi, alabama go bankrupt. if a category four storm comes in from the gulf of america. in in into there, those those states are done. and so look, right now, i think the administration started with heavy talk about getting rid of fema today. they had the fema council, which i support. the president put that together to reform fema. and actually. they talked at that council today for

the first time about those reforms rather than elimination. okay. >> but even if they're talking about that, like at the at the agency level, it doesn't seem like things are working like, here's you've got the acting head got kicked out and you've got the replacement. now this is david richardson. he warned staff in a meeting to try not to try to impede upcoming changes, saying i will run right over you while also suggesting policy changes that would push more responsibilities to the states. i'm not sure if this is the right guy for the job, but whether he is or not, you've go, it seems huge holes here where you've got no emergency disaster declarations and no real personnel on the ground in these places that have just had emergencies. >> yeah, and that's. >> by design, right? >> they realize they have the stafford act. >> which is in statute. so what they're doing. >> is, is they're they're not issuing declarations so that the stafford. act doesn't get triggered. look, even governor huckabee of arkansas, who worked for the president, had problems for weeks on getting that

declaration. so that's by design. >> look, the new. >> interim administrator who they picked, you know, doesn't have any fema experience. >> he does have. >> experience in weapons. of mass destruction. which is interesting because kristi noem has dropped a bomb on the agency. and so, you know, what i. would say is, is that this. was an agency that needed help and needed reform. and instead what they did was, is they got rid of 30% of the people who worked there, some of the most senior people who knew what they were doing. and they've turned fema into newark airport. and i will tell you, we are going to see fema not respond if we have a big disaster, if they get lucky and we don't have a big hurricane, or we don't have something like an earthquake, which hasn't happened since the 90s in california, if we. >> don't. >> have something big, they may get lucky. but if we. get a category three or stronger storm, you know, along the atlantic or in the gulf, i'm telling you right now, you're going to see a michael brown situation. >> well, i want to play you. i mean, this josh hawley, senator

missouri, his his sound today basically pleading with noem on this was was pretty striking. take a listen. >> the state has pending three requests for major disaster declarations from earlier storms. we've lost over a dozen people. actually, if you if you count the folks we lost just on friday, we've lost almost 20 people now in major storms just in the last two months in missouri. it's been a terrible spring for us here again, can i ask for your help? will you commit to helping for those three major disaster declaration requests that are pending? will you help expedite those, secretary noem, and get those in front of the president, get those approved? we are we are desperate for the assistance in missouri. >> yes, absolutely. >> and what i'm hearing from you is she may say yes, but they don't want to. i mean, the white house doesn't want to. >> yeah. and well, i don't know. >> who if it's whether the. >> secretary whether the secretary is not giving it to the white house. i mean, i don't know who the heck knows, but they're not doing it. they're specifically not granting things. and when we get into hurricane season, chris. >> there's something called. >> a pre-landfall deck, which is as that category three or

category four storm is approaching. you get a deck before it hits. so that way you can start moving logistics, moving, resources moving, you know, life, health, safety stuff. you can move swift water rescue crews if they don't get that prelaunch landfall deck. the local governments and the states don't know if they're going to be reimbursed. it will affect their spending. it will affect response. so this is very dangerous policy. if they don't if they don't figure this out. >> that is really something to look for. i hadn't thought of that. but that's a really, really good point for us to stay on. congressman jared moskowitz, thank you very much. >> thanks, chris. >> that is all in on this tuesday night. the briefing with jen psaki starts right now. good evening jen. >> hey chris. >> we're getting ready to talk with congresswoman lamonica mciver, who's about to join us shortly. >> i saw that and i was very excited to have her. i'm going to go up to my office and watch that interview. i'm very, very anxious to hear what she has to say. >> i am, i am too, and i think it's incredibly courageous of her to be out here telling her story and incredibly important