they've since found another church, and they still have a place for god in their lives. maybe the most amazing thing out of all this to me is that the two of you didn't lose your faith. right on. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. >> good morning, and welcome to this saturday. edition of morning joe weekend. let's get right to. >> some of the. >> conversations you might have missed. >> i don't feel like a king. i have to go through hell to get stuff approved. the king would say, i'm not going to get this. the king would have never had the california mandate to even be talking to him. he wouldn't have to call up mike johnson and

thune and say, fellas, you got to pull this off. and after years, we get it done. no, no, we're not a king. we're not a king at all. >> tomorrow's parade is to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the us army. a worthy day. >> of course. it also happens. >> to coincide. >> with president. trump's 79th birthday. >> the event. >> is estimated to. >> cost upward of $50 million. david french, you've. >> been thinking a lot about. >> this and writing about. >> this parade on saturday. >> it is to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the united states army. we all agree that's. >> worthy of celebration. >> we thank you for your service in the united states army. >> recipient of a bronze star. >> but it also does coincide with. >> the president's birthday. so what do you make of the spectacle we. >> will see. >> tomorrow of those. tanks rolling through the streets of washington? >> you know, i'm. >> honestly not. >> as. worried about this incident as a number of other people have been. i do think celebrating the 250th. anniversary of the army is. >> worth something. >> certainly. however, the

context overall. here is what makes this. >> to the extent. >> that. >> i'm troubled about this, it's the context overall here. on the one. >> hand, a military. >> parade to honor the. >> 250th anniversary. of one of our branches of the military. doesn't seem objectionable. >> on the. >> other hand, he just came from a rally. what? >> he turned. >> an appearance in front. >> of. >> the troops into what. was hard to distinguish from a political rally, with reporting that the troops who were behind. >> him were. >> screened for appearance and potential loyalty to trump, that those who who were not going to be liking what trump was going to say were not going to be behind him. and so you. >> have and. >> then you have. >> the deployment of. >> troops into los. angeles on really a pretext. and escalation in los angeles, really on a pretext on a violent incident that. >> those serious. >> certainly didn't. indicate the collapse of. california's ability. >> to control. >> its.

>> streets. >> so that that. >> greater context, i think, is the element that i'm worried. >> about here. >> not the. >> existence of a parade on the 250th anniversary of the army, but this larger context of constant escalation, constant escalation, puts a darker tone on it, a darker spin on it. >> john meacham. >> through the lens of history, how. >> do. >> you look at. this parade? >> tomorrow? i go back to the. quote from colonel jack jacobs. >> our friend, the medal of honor recipient. he said. >> we're not really a tanks. >> in the. >> street kind of country. >> though of course, he. >> celebrates the. united states. >> army and its 250th. >> anniversary, but. >> this is. >> something we. >> haven't. >> seen much. >> of. >> in this country. >> we haven't. and i think david's right. i think we have to make a distinction between commemorating and celebrating the remarkable sacrifices of. >> a quarter. >> of a millennium tradition. >> of the united states army. >> as colin. >> powell used to say. >> we've projected force. >> across the seas, and all. >> we've ever.

>> asked for. >> in return is the. ground in which to bury our dead. and so, at our best, the american tradition is one. >> where we. >> have projected. force to defend and promulgate, in many cases, the principles of the declaration of independence. the most vital document, the document that the sacred secular scripture, if you will, that animates who we are. and i would suggest to. everybody that. >> whether it's. >> los. >> angeles or. >> the parade, whatever, it might be, a really good question. to ask yourself is, is. what we're doing as a country at this particular hour fulfilling. >> the implications. >> of the promise of the declaration? or is it pulling us farther away? and the answer won't always be simple or straightforward, but. our finest hours have been the hours in which we have lived into the

declaration. and so i think remembering that that's what the united states army most and best represents, and what the country best represents, is a good. >> way. >> to get through the weekend. >> john meacham, thank you, as always. new york times columnist david french, thank you. and happy 250th. birthday to the united states army. >> we'll have much. >> more of morning. >> joe. >> joe. >> weekend. after the break. the darkness of bipolar depression made me feel like i was losing interest in the things i love. then i found a chance to let in the lyte. discover caplyta. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta is proven to deliver significant symptom relief from both bipolar i and ii depression. and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. call your doctor about new or sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. antidepressants may increase these risks.

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>> d.o.j. there. >> are real fears there. >> fears of political. >> violence, retribution. >> does that end up making. >> the united states less safe? >> the weekend, saturday and sunday mornings at seven on msnbc. it's moving. >> day at oakmont. >> the pressure builds as the course wreaks. >> havoc on. >> the field. >> it will. >> absolutely punish you. >> if. >> you're just a little bit off. >> who will make a. >> charge towards a. >> major championship title? the us. >> open continues. >> i was. >> there peacefully. at one point. i had a question. and so i began to ask. >> a question. >> i was almost immediately. forcibly removed from the room. i was forced to the ground. >> and i. >> was handcuffed. >> i was not arrested. if this is. >> how this. >> administration responds to a senator with a. >> question, if this is. >> how the. department of homeland security. responds to a

senator with a question, you can only imagine what they're doing to farmworkers, to cooks. to day laborers out in the los angeles community and throughout california and throughout. >> the country. >> now, secretary noem offered a different account of what happened during an interview on fox news. she claimed padilla did not identify himself. you heard him. >> identify himself. let's hear what she said. >> we were conducting. >> a press. >> conference to update everyone on the enforcement actions that are. >> ongoing to bring peace. >> to. the city. >> of los angeles. >> and this man burst. >> into the room. >> started lunging towards the. >> podium. >> interrupting me. and elevating his voice. >> and was stopped. did not identify. >> himself and was. removed from. >> the room. so as. soon as he identified. >> himself. >> you know. >> appropriate actions were taken. >> but i would say. >> that. >> you know, i.

>> had a conversation. >> with the senator. >> after this. >> we sat. >> down for 10. >> to. >> 15 minutes and. >> talked about the fact that. >> nobody knew who. >> he was. >> he didn't say who. >> he was until. >> he was. >> already had. >> been lunging. >> forward. and people were trying. >> to detain. >> him for quite. >> a period. >> of time. >> so the argument from secretary noem and for many others in the trump administration that look to them like some random guy charging the podium, clearly, as you heard in the video we played, he identified. himself as senator padilla. let's listen. >> again. >> sir. >> sir. hands up. >> hands up! >> senator alex. >> padilla. >> i have questions. >> for the. secretary because the. >> secret service officials. >> tell nbc news they interviewed the senator after the incident. quickly determined he had no intention to harm the secretary. >> and was. >> not charged. so, maria teresa. >> kumar. >> obviously. >> that is a very jarring scene. >> to see. >> united states senator forcibly removed, thrown to the ground.

>> and handcuffed and arrested. >> what do you make of. >> what we. >> saw there? >> i mean, you. >> can quibble. >> with his tactics. >> perhaps that he. >> shouldn't. have charged in there. maybe, but he clearly identified himself. what do you make of what we saw yesterday? >> well. >> i think first. >> of all, he didn't charge. he was asking questions. but let's take a. >> step back, willie. >> let's assume that she did not hear him. >> identify himself. how many. >> times have. we witnessed. leaders at. >> a podium. >> whether we're. >> talking about senator mccain. whether we were talking about. >> bush. >> whether we're talking about obama. even senator. secretary mayorkas? how many. >> times have they been in a place where they are. >> heckled at. >> the podium. >> and they do what is right, what leaders. >> do. >> they de-escalate. the situation. they basically say, you know. >> what, i can't take. >> your. >> question now. >> but perhaps. >> afterwards. >> that is the job of. >> a leader. >> you have. >> secretary noem, who. >> is charged. >> with 250,000. >> agents around the country. >> and she.

>> cannot de-escalate. >> a basic. press conference. >> instead, it has to go. >> to the. >> maximum where they have to handcuff a sitting. >> senator. >> that actually. >> goes to. a broader issue. >> is she the. >> right person for this job? does she understand. that right now? if she. >> cannot control press conference, how can we make. >> sure that there. >> are not. >> going to be rogue. >> ice agents, rogue. folks that are going to interfere and violate people's constitutional rights. >> simply because. >> she does not have. >> the authority. >> or the ability to actually. >> rein her in. >> i believe. >> that there is someone from the. >> white house that called her and said, you know what? >> you really messed up right now. you have to go now. sit down and talk to the senator. >> i have to. >> tell you that i have known. >> alex padilla for. >> a very long time. >> in his character. >> he is someone that has stayed. >> this is perhaps. >> the most excited. >> i've ever seen him. >> and in part is because. >> he is someone that. >> is very. >> methodical. >> very thoughtful. >> in the way. >> he actually engages with his

with his community. and he was there simply. >> doing his job. >> he asked a simple question. >> he was in a federal building where he had to go through security. he was escorted by security into that conference room. >> so i do think that the question is much larger. did the, you know, folks are. >> saying, well, what did the secret service do? >> they were doing their job. >> but her. >> job at the. >> podium. >> as the head. >> of ice. >> is. >> to de-escalate situations. and she absolutely failed. >> yes, certainly a more talented politician could have used that moment even deftly to talk, make, even make a talking point. at the very least, de-escalate it to pieces of audio from that clip we played earlier. that should worth repeating. willie did one already. senator patty padilla clearly identified himself, the other as. >> the staffer following. >> the fracas into the hallway and is told by an agent, you can't record here. you can't record here. it's a news conference. everyone was recording there. it was. >> this was. >> this is a united states senator. this is a co-equal branch of government trying to ask a question of the administration that is part of the job description, and he is pushed out of the room,

manhandled, pushed to the ground, handcuffed. >> david french, this, this. >> this feels like more there's more going on here. this is not. >> just a misunderstanding. >> at a news conference. >> this feels. >> like too many. like a sign of bad things to come. you just wrote recently about how you feel like america is no longer a stable country. in part of everything we've seen in los angeles this past week, we'll add this moment to that. >> where. >> again, a member. >> of the. legislative branch. >> tries to ask a question of the executive branch. and for that, david, that person is thrown to the ground and briefly handcuffed. >> you know, look, even. >> if you thought this person. >> was just. >> a member of the public who was interrupting, just trying to be disruptive and interrupt, i can see pushing them out of the room, but then putting them. >> down on the ground. >> and handcuffing them as if they've done this, if they've broken the law.

>> add into. >> this. >> that, then the. >> spin afterwards was just a lie. i have. not seen any video, and i've yet to see any video that shows a lunge towards the secretary. he clearly identifies himself. so here you have a situation where they put him in handcuffs when you absolutely had no need to do that at all, even if they genuinely thought he was just a member of the public interrupting. and then when this becomes public, you. >> put out a statement that is incredibly. >> easily disprovable and you make arguments that are just disprovable from the tape. and so this is yet another example of when we have a conflict in this country right now, and you have two branching paths, one is towards de-escalation and the other one is towards escalation. >> this administration. >> is taking that escalation path every single time, especially when it comes to its domestic political opponents. and this is fraying the stability of this. >> country as. >> this was happening. i was

also you're also seeing reports on twitter of these shouting matches on the house floor, people screaming at each other. and it did have. when you're. reading about flashpoints in american history, where america starts to feel as if it's coming off the rails, you will have the personal conflicts that are online that are around the nation start to spill into the halls of power. and we're just seeing this. and time and again, they're choosing to escalate, not de-escalate. >> john. >> talk. >> about that. >> a little bit more. >> because i. >> keep hearing from. >> members of congress. >> that something that is new at the moment, since. >> the second. >> trump administration, is that there is a level. >> of violence. >> implied towards members. >> of congress. they say to me, look, it's. >> not. >> just that. >> i'm. >> feeling under threat. it's also. >> that. >> you know, my family. >> might be. >> feeling under threat. what are you hearing. >> about? >> how much. >> more threats. >> of violence there are. and how. >> this kind of incident doesn't calm. >> things down. >> but. >> it provokes. people to more

violence. it provokes people to more violence. >> oh, you're exactly right. >> i mean. almost all. >> public officials. >> including. perhaps most frighteningly, judges who are supposed to be the umpires, who are supposed to be part of the field but have a certain authority, are in, i don't want to say an unprecedented threat environment to use that term of art, but it is a real tactile sense of menace in the, in the country. and i think what david has written about so. >> well is. >> really well, our points really well taken. >> part of. >> what's happened, i think katie is, well, first of all, the historical point you ask about the last time it was this bad not to shake everybody's friday morning even more than it's already shaken, given what's going on was the pre-civil war period where you had an extraordinary amount of

political violence. and we know how the 1850s turned out. and so these are signs of a deeper condition within the country, which is a fraying, i believe, of a kind of consensus, not about policy, but about politics, not as total war, but as a mediation of differences, that that's what a democracy, that's what a constitutional system should be. and the prevalence of violence is useful to politically useful. for, in this case, the administration and very dangerous. and i always hate the phrase both sides, both sides. everyone needs to take a deep breath. everyone needs to

remember that what makes america truly great is the rule of law is the capacity of the country to resolve crises, to resolve issues. >> through the courts. >> through the legislative process, through the means and mediation of politics. and this prevalence of violence is a sign. >> that. >> we are not living up to that covenant. >> up next time's new cover story takes a deep dive inside president. trump's controversial deportation. >> program. which is, of. >> course. >> at the heart of the protests we've been seeing in los angeles. we'll speak with the coauthor. >> of. >> that piece straight ahead >> that piece straight ahead here on morning joe. weekend. so what are you thinking? i'm thinking... about our honeymoon... how about africa? a safari... swim with elephants... hot air balloon rides... lions growling and giraffes that come in through your window... wait — can we afford a safari? great question.

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>> text why'd i go to the doctor? i remember being so light-headed, i could barely stand. good thing my crew nudged me to get checked. turns out i have afib. which increases the risk of stroke about 5x. my heart would race just taking my son to practice. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness can come and go. but if it's afib, the risk of stroke remains. if you notice one of more of these symptoms, contact a doctor. i'm so glad i did. this is no time to wait. >> time magazine's. >> new cover. >> story takes a deep dive.

inside president. >> trump's controversial deportation program, which is at the heart of. >> the. >> protests that we've been seeing in. >> los angeles. >> coauthor of that piece. time senior. political correspondent eric cortellessa, joins us now. eric, what did you find? >> well, i think. >> what we found was that donald trump's administration has embarked on probably the. largest and most concerted, systematic effort at engineering population migration in the history of the country, something without analogs in recent world history. and they've done it through a number of things. >> they have enlisted. >> other law enforcement agencies. >> to. >> assist in the effort, whether it's the dea or the fbi or the u.s. park service or the atf. they have recruited other non-law enforcement agencies to help identify and target migrants who could be removed. >> whether through. >> the irs. >> or the postal service. >> these agencies that have

sensitive. >> data on on every american or non-citizen living. >> in the country. and what they have done is really freed up ice to. go and identify, round up, arrest and remove as many migrants as possible. and what they're trying to do through this legislation is to ramp up the capacity to do even more at a quicker rate. right now, ice detention facilities there are roughly 200 throughout the country can fit 50,000 detainees awaiting. for removal. and what they're hoping to get after this bill passes is 100,000, so they can. >> do. even more at a quicker rate. >> go ahead. >> eric, i have a question. i would first, i want to interject just quickly to mike barnicle, because. we i have heard. mayor bass say exactly those words practically that that you just said. so it's not as if. >> the california authorities are are silent on this. >> i think they have said out loud that illegal acts will be punished. >> and, you know, don't do that.

maybe they should say. >> it. >> in a louder voice. but but i have heard mayor. >> bass say exactly that. >> but my. >> question to eric is, is this a systematic attempt. to basically terrorize. >> undocumented immigrants. >> into self-deporting? >> is this. >> does this to scare everybody. >> into into. >> doing it, or is it a sincere. >> effort to. >> round up? >> you know. >> what. >> 11 million people? >> well, i think it can be both things at once, right? they genuinely want to. >> remove millions of migrants, right? there's estimated to be roughly around 11 to 12 million. >> throughout the country. but i think also what they do want to do is instill fear in these communities. >> and within the migrant community. >> one, because they. have rejected. >> these people. >> so much. one trend i found when speaking. >> to migrants. >> who are in detention in louisiana was. that more and more, they. >> were unwilling to want to fight their cases in court. they have. >> kind of resigned to. >> their fate, thinking that

we're not going. >> to. >> be. >> able to win our cases anyways. and if we were able. >> to. >> stay, america no longer offers what it once did for. >> people like. >> us who came to the country. >> who may have crossed the border illegally. >> in pursuit. >> of a better life. >> so i think, you know, it has a disincentive element to it. it has a deterrence element. it instills fear, but it's also practically an attempt to remove as many people as. >> they can as quickly as they can. >> and i mean, i. >> have two questions. >> for you. i mean, any. >> update on the men who were. >> deported with great coverage of this. >> with cameras. >> and. >> well-produced video. >> of these. >> men that. >> were sent to. >> the prison. >> in el salvador. i mean, it's. almost unimaginable. >> that we haven't even. >> talked about that in weeks. you don't hear about it. >> and then. >> secondly. can people. >> self-deport safely, or should

they fear. >> being nabbed? >> well, i got to travel to el salvador. >> a few. weeks ago and go. >> inside of the secret facility. >> that was. storing that. >> was keeping the 238 venezuelan nationals that the trump administration sent there on march. >> 15th in the middle. >> of the night. and, you know. >> it was. >> super fascinating. reporting project, an opportunity to go into that module, which was different from the rest of the units at kcot. when you walk into this particular unit that stores the venezuelan nationals who we deported there, they are rambunctious, they are defiant. they will approach the bars and hoot and holler and ask for their freedom. ask you to connect them with. >> family members, right? they have. access to things. >> like blankets. >> and pillows, and they're fed. >> fast food. >> whereas when you. >> go into one of the other units, that's. >> that has. >> the salvadoran nationals who are alleged to be members of the ms13.

>> or barrio. >> 18 gangs, they are silent. >> there is. >> total obeisance. >> they will stare. >> at you blankly as you walk through the facility. they spend 23.5 hours inside of these cells that. have more than 80, or can fit up to 80 people inside of them. they only get 30 minutes outside of those. >> cells a day for either bible. study or calisthenics. >> and you know, one thing that was really telling that the warden said, was. >> that they. >> have. >> lost the will to fight or resist us. >> all right. the new cover story is available to read online now. senior political correspondent at. >> time. >> eric cortellessa, thank you very much. for your reporting. >> this morning. >> democratic congresswoman mikie sherrill joins us to talk about. her victory in new jersey's gubernatorial primary election. that's next on morning joe. weekend. >> no, i don't want to. look.

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slammed her gop opponent, whom she'll face off against this november. she won the republican primary following an endorsement. >> from president. >> trump. and congresswoman. >> sherrill joins. >> us now. it's great to. >> have you back on. >> morning joe. >> so tell. >> us what your message. >> to the voters would be as to. why you should be the governor of new. >> jersey. and that. >> would make you. >> having arguably the. >> most impressive resume. >> of all time. >> bar none. given all the different, incredible jobs you've already held. >> well, thanks so much, mika. great to see you. and yeah, we had a great result last night. almost 800,000 people showing up in the democratic primary. that's record setting. the people of new jersey are ready to take on this fight. and i think what you saw is that it is an indictment against the failed policies of donald trump, the constant attacks on our economy,

on prices, on our rights and freedoms. and we know jack ciattarelli would be more of the same. i mean, he is basically, at every turn worked to show trump that he would just do whatever donald trump wants him to do. and i think what we saw last night was that that is not what the people of new jersey want to see. >> congresswoman, good morning. congratulations. good to. >> see you. >> i can confirm in a nonpartizan. >> way your. >> jersey credentials, because i saw you. >> once at a. >> bruce. >> springsteen concert. >> holding a sign. >> that. >> said jersey girl actually making a. >> request to springsteen. >> remember willie? he played it. >> he played it. so you're you're your cred is intact. so let's. >> talk about. >> your opponent, mr. titorelli. donald trump. >> has supported him fully. >> he, in fact, said that jack. >> ciattarelli is 100% maga. >> so you've. >> tied him to donald trump and the policies of. >> this administration. >> the thing is, that might not be totally a. >> bad thing. for him. >> in new jersey. >> considering donald trump only. >> lost a. >> state i. >> grew up in, which was.

>> very blue. >> by six points. >> that's to. >> say that donald trump's popularity is increasing in new jersey. so how do you. walk that line between trying to get some. >> of those trump voters to your side and. >> criticizing jack ciattarelli. >> for being tied to donald trump? >> you know. >> willie, i think we saw last night that that is not where voters are. we saw dems come out at almost 2 to 1 the rate of republicans yesterday. i think the base is fired up. people are ready to go. and i've always run races where i've built broad coalitions, not just of democrats, but of independents and republicans, because i've always had a vision of serving the people of new jersey. as a former navy helicopter pilot and a federal prosecutor and a mom of four kids, it has always been my desire to serve the people and to create a better future for our kids. and it's, you know, it's not just that, jack ciattarelli said. he's going to do anything and everything that trump wants him to do. it's that he has a record that doesn't serve the people of new jersey. so whether it's constantly

raising taxes or not, supporting people in superstorm sandy or really peddling the information of pharmaceutical companies who were trying to addict people to opioids again and again and again, he's put himself first. he's now doing he's putting trump first. and that is not going to serve the people of my state. >> congresswoman elisabeth bumiller. >> with the new york times has a question for you, elizabeth. >> congratulations, congresswoman. i was going to just ask you, given what we were talking about at the top of the show, which is about immigration, and you're known as a centrist democrat, a strong military record, obviously, but i'm curious. curious. this will come up in your race. what do you make. >> so far. >> of the democratic response to trump's crackdown in on. >> in los angeles. >> and on bringing in the military? >> how did how. >> do how. >> will you navigate that and how do democrats. >> navigate that? you know, i think we believe in strong public safety and keeping people

safe. violence is never okay. and at the same time, making sure we have the appropriate people in place to handle that. you just heard from about how new york is handling that, and a really thoughtful way in law enforcement. we have people trained to handle protests. it's part of our constitution, the right to protest. and so we have law enforcement, public safety officers trained to make sure those protests go off without violence, that people can gather in the streets to register what they're concerned about. and so the lack of understanding of the difference, i've served for almost ten years as a navy helicopter pilot. then i served as a federal prosecutor, working closely with law enforcement. those are two separate missions, and we have law enforcement that is very capable and able to handle the mission. and i think the real threat that the people of new jersey see is that there's going to be a constant attack on our state from donald trump. and jack ciattarelli would just welcome it. he'd

really turn over the state to trump, as opposed to standing up for the people of new jersey. he's basically professed that's exactly what he's going to do. and we see it again and again and again. >> so, congresswoman, obviously, the president's use of the national guard in los angeles has taken the headlines of late. >> but this was. >> of course, this all began with. >> over. >> immigration and ice agent raids there in southern california. there have been. >> plenty of new. >> jersey as well. and in fact, one of your colleagues, congresswoman lamonica mciver, was just indicted by a federal grand jury yesterday because they she is charged with obstructing ice agents there outside a detention center. so first, can we get your reaction to that news that your colleague being arrested? but also, what would you do as governor for in a similar situation, if indeed president trump deploying ice agents in matters like this, that some of your colleagues felt inappropriate, perhaps unlawful? >> you know, i think what we see

with these charges is over a decade of prison time, because a member of congress was exercising her oversight duties. this is i think the people of new jersey realize this is ridiculous. this is punitive. this is partizan politics at its worst because it's coming from the u.s. attorney's office, my former office, where justice should be blind. but instead, alina habba has pledged to make it very partizan. and we're seeing that effect right now. so here in new jersey, we're fighting for a different kind of future. we're fighting for our constitution. we're fighting for rights and freedoms. we're also fighting so people can stay here and raise their families here. i like to say this is the garden state where you plant your family and you grow your future. we're driving down housing costs, utility costs and then protecting people from all those attacks they see coming from washington. >> up next. >> here, where is. >> barack obama? the atlantic's mark leibovich is asking that question. he'll join us next question. he'll join us next with his new piece. [upbeat music]

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beyond the what? to understand the why. download the msnbc app now. >> we bring. >> in mark leibovich. his latest piece asks this question where is barack obama? and in it, mark, you write in part, quote, no matter how brazen, trump becomes the most effective communicator in the democratic party, continues to opt for minimal communication. his audacity of hope presidency has given way to the fierce lethargy of semi-retirement. obama's conspicuous scarcity, while trump inflicts such damage isn't just a bad look. it's a dereliction of the message that he built his career on. when obama first ran for president in 2008, his former life as a community organizer was central to his message. his campaign was not merely for him, but for civic action itself. the idea of americans being invested in their own change. after he left

office in 2017, obama said that he would work to inspire and develop the next cohort of leaders, which is essentially the mission of his foundation. it would seem a contradiction for him to say that he's devoting much of his post-presidency to promoting civic engagement, when he himself seems so disengaged and mark strong piece, and i think it's one that's that is really touched a nerve here among many democrats. we've been used to former president obama the last couple of campaigns. he sort of fancies himself the closer. right. he comes and gives a big convention speech, and then we see him on the road just the very end, sort of, you know. >> september, october. >> he did a little more last time around for president biden. but there's been democrats for a while now saying we need more of him, and especially now that trump's in office, his absence, as you write, is really noticeable. yeah, i was really struck by the. >> response to this piece, frankly. >> i mean, i was a little.

>> nervous just because. >> you know, going after barack obama and challenging him on. >> things is really. >> going after a democratic sacred cow. >> you often. >> hear some real. >> pushback pretty quickly. >> this one very muted response as far as defense of him and very, very animated response in terms of, yeah, where has he been? and i do think that his inaction and his disengagement here. >> has been really conspicuous. >> one, because there is actual demand for him. i mean. >> it's not like, you know. george w bush is, you know. >> there's a great clamor, certainly in the republican party for him. but democrats face such a leadership vacuum right now. barack obama is actually a very gifted communicator. >> still. >> he's he's not too old. you know, he could be much more active, but he seems like he's really kind of done with. >> this whole thing. >> i mean, that seems to be his posture. and i do think that this is even. >> more conspicuous. >> now, given what donald trump is doing and given the lack. >> of pushback across. >> the board, certainly from his own administration. certainly from his own party, but. >> but. >> also, since there is such a

real weakness of democratic voices right now, i think. >> you know, i think a lot. >> of people would love for him to step in and say something much bolder than he's had now. which has been quite silent. >> mark, i wonder. >> where you. >> think he should. >> be stepping in and what. >> that should look like. >> i mean, one interesting. >> example we've. seen is. >> obviously senator. >> bernie sanders. barnstorming with congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. that's been really interesting because, of course, yes, there's. >> a need for voices. >> in the democratic party and. influential figures, but actually. >> there's a need for new. >> leadership as well. so that's something that senator sanders. >> has. >> has. >> i think, led the way on in a way. >> which is which is. >> promising for them. >> but i wonder what role you think former president barack obama should. >> have. >> especially given. >> the concerns. >> about just. >> being a. >> flashpoint in the in the politics of the trump era? >> yeah, i. think that's a. >> good point. i mean, that does. seem to be the. >> one defense. >> of the obama. >> people. >> which is, you know, what's he going to do?

>> we don't want. >> to crowd out the next generation of leaders. the problem is there is no next generation of leaders. i mean, democrats have not gotten around to picking one. >> really, since barack obama. >> himself was elected in 2008. and i. >> think the short. >> answer on what should barack obama be doing now is, frankly, something more than he is. i mean, i think. >> a weekend. like this. >> where you have. >> like. literally tanks. >> in. >> the streets of washington. >> and in los angeles now and. >> you will in a few days here would be, i think. >> a really important time for someone who has presidential authority. >> who still relatively. popular and. >> who. >> still has a lot. >> of goodwill attached to him. to actually remind, in a very eloquent way, americans. >> that this is. not normal. this is not. >> generally how it's done. >> it's not proper and. >> it's frankly dangerous. and actually, in a very succinct way, remind americans that this is not. >> the way it's supposed to be. and it's certainly. not something that he would ever. >> have gotten. >> away with. >> if he had done this during his presidency. >> the new piece, where is barack obama? is online now for the atlantic. subscribe, folks.

staff writer mark leibovich. mark, thank you as always. up next, emmy and oscar winning actor riz ahmed and director david mackenzie join us to talk david mackenzie join us to talk about their new thriller relay. dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ miebo is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one cause of dry eye: too much tear evaporation. for relief that's ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ remove contact lenses before using miebo. wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. eye redness and blurred vision may occur. ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ ask your eye doctor about prescription miebo. the cockroach. resilient creatures. true miracles of evolution. where there is one, others aren't far behind. always scavenging for food, the cockroach... well that's horrifying. ortho home defense max indoor insect barrier.

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>> i think. >> they're. >> watching me. >> go ahead. >> they may be tapping this call

in the future. >> only use your new phone. >> your caller has hung up. thank you for using the tri-state relay service. have a wonderful night. >> there's a. >> van parked out front. >> i think they're watching me. >> go ahead. >> okay. three, three, nine. >> east avenue, yonkers. >> new york. >> night shift. >> who's coming? >> that's a mysterious look at the new thriller relay, which is set for release in the u.s. this august. in the film, emmy and

oscar winning actor riz ahmed plays a top tier fixer who negotiates high stakes payoffs between powerful corporations and the people poised to expose them. through careful planning, he never strays from his own set of rules until a message from a potential client, one played by lily james, forces those rules to change. and riz joins us now, along with the film's director, david mackenzie. our thanks to you both. we appreciate you being here. let's start with you. your character, this fixer upper high wire act, to say the least. what drew you to the role? tell us about a little more about the character. >> i think the main thing that drew me to this role was this gentleman right here on my left, david mackenzie, one of the. >> great directors that i've wanted to work with for a long time. people might be familiar with hell or high water or starred up. he's just a master at creating awesome characters that are wrapped up in really. tense situations. and that's what it was for me when i was reading this script. it was just quite literally a page turner,

you know? and i feel like that's the. experience for audiences as well. >> it's just going. >> to. be something. that keeps people, i think, on. the edge of their seat. if it was like that for me reading it, you know, for people watching it, i think it's going to be. >> like that too. >> so. >> david, there was a review in the guardian that suggests the setup of. this could have been a multi-series multi-season series, a slow boil, you know, created in this tight, real, taut thriller. tell us about that. well. >> i mean, that's. >> the. >> idea is to keep. >> things, you know, you know, on edge all the time. it's all set in new york. and there's a. there's a, there's a sort of sense of, of being, you. >> know, looking over. >> your shoulder and paranoia. and we're sort of leaning into some of. the films from the 1970s, the sort of post-watergate kind of, you know, don't trust anyone kind of movies. and, and. >> that's, that's. >> kind of what. >> what the. >> flavor of the film is. and that's what we try to do. but obviously, yeah, as you say,

it's in a, in a. short space of time. it's not a long, long series. it's a film. and i personally love, love films and love the idea of a narrative. that has a beginning, a middle and an end and doesn't. >> need to. >> carry on to the next episode. and so that's what we concentrated on. >> doing that idea. i'm glad you said that about the 1970s, the watergate. you can't trust everything. do you find a similar feeling now, whether it's in the us or abroad, just the sense of disillusionment or distrust for government? do you feel like that's why this movie works right now? well. >> i think i think there's no one. it's hard to tell what to believe nowadays. in almost every way you look, it's, you know, there's a hall of mirrors out there. and i think it's i think it's really it's a the world is a scary place and, and you know, and the interesting thing about this film is he's very, very analog. he hide, he doesn't have a digital footprint. he hides away from things that that might, might, might be traceable to him. and in a way, having to kind of set yourself back from technology nowadays is maybe, maybe the way forward in some strange, strange

way. >> that's exactly what i wanted to ask you. talk to us a little bit about that idea, this analog character in extraordinarily digital age. >> yeah. i mean, it's my fantasy to lose my phone and never find it again, to be honest. and this character is doing that. so he's living the dream in a way. i mean, look, we're all so connected. obviously it's a gift and also a curse. but for my character, he's trying to evade detection. he's very much off grid. he's hiding in plain sight. he's hiding in the busy, intense anonymity of new york city. and so he is offline and the really unique kind of contemporary twist to this classic thriller is that he uses this piece of equipment called the relay machine, which i didn't know existed. but it's a real thing. people who are hard of hearing or deaf, they call some they can kind of type on a machine and someone else makes the phone call for them. so it's a way of creating a bit of distance. and so what that really means is that every single conversation in this film has a sense of tension, feels really unique, really has you leaning in. there are no just

kind of casual chats in a room. every single interaction feels intriguing, unique, and has that that drama baked into the very concept of the film. >> the film, smart and tense. set for nationwide release on august 22nd, relay is the name emmy and oscar winning actor riz ahmed and director david mackenzie are thanks to you both. thank you for being here. thank you this morning. and that's it for us this saturday morning. but stay right here with msnbc. the weekend is coming up next. >> good morning. >> it is. >> saturday, june 14th. today president. >> trump prepares. >> to host. >> his military. >> parade here in. >> washington, d.c. as large numbers of americans are saying. enough is enough. with trump's. >> increasingly autocratic. >> actions, no kings rallies are set to begin soon all across the. >>