partners that are assisting, they will come in pairs of two or more. someone i'm sorry, one at a time. >> do you know anything about and say things like, senator hoffman. >> we do know that he did, but i'm going to hold that back as part of the investigation right now. >> is that correct? >> this is a very large scale search. so we have detained several people and questioned them, but we do not have anybody in custody at this time. >> would identify that person publicly or privately identify this suspect. >> we have people of interest that we are looking for. >> other than that, these are two democratic lawmakers. is there anything else to suggest that this is politically motivated? >> again, i'm going to hold back most of the information. this is part of the investigation to be completed. this is rapidly evolving. just occurred a few hours ago, and we're trying to sort it out. we have partners from the fbi, the bca, the hennepin county sheriff's office, and almost every

suburban agency in our community helping us with this. so it's very complex and working on it. but i will tell you, when we did a search of the vehicle, there was a manifesto that identified many lawmakers and other officials. we immediately made alerts to the state, who took action on alerting them and providing security where necessary. and that's about it. i'll stop there. >> thank you very much. >> we're going to take one more question here with the bca. can i ask just you use the word targeted. and that's kind of along the lines of michelle's question in terms of politics, democrats and these are both democratic lawmakers who said were targeted. so part of it because the politicians are targeted because they're dead. >> but the so the question is, is were they targeted? and when i use the term why am i using the term? as chief bruley noted, there was a list of individuals and the individuals that were targeted in this situation were on that list. and so when we're looking at that, as chief really said, it's far too early in the investigation to be able to provide information. but i do think we'll be in a position

where we'll be able to develop the motivation behind these attacks and we'll be able to provide more information as this unfolds. and so that's part of the reason we're using it is i think there's some preliminary information that is telling us kind of where this is headed, but we need a lot more work done by all the teams that are here working on that, to be able to provide that with you with a degree of accuracy. >> thanks. >> thank you. >> quite a few. >> we're good. thank you. >> yeah. >> hold on. >> colonel, do you want to. >> talk about the rally at the capitol? >> thank you. good morning, colonel blagojevich. with the state patrol. we are aware of the demonstrations across minnesota, including the capitol and across the nation. we will work with our state partners and our local partners to provide security and safety for those that attend christie press, can you confirm that you will have a cyber station at the. the question was, will we have a sniper at the capitol? we don't discuss our security plans on the capitol grounds, colonel. thank you. >> thank you. >> very much, everybody, for

being here. we will i think you do have and if you haven't, let me know. but we do have a place where you can. >> send inquiries. >> okay. we've been following the press conference out of minneapolis. we now have confirmed that a lawmaker, state representative melissa hortman, has been killed. her husband, mark, has been killed. she is a democratic state representative, former speaker of the house, minnesota senator john hoffman has been shot and his wife, yvette were shot as well. they are they they are hoping that they will recover from their surgery. also a democrat, the police were just saying that they have some sense that these were targeted killings for a couple of reasons. one is that there are two lawmakers, and second, one is they appear to have been on a list of individuals who are targeted. a massive manhunt is underway now. the suspect arrived in what appeared to be a police car, what looked very much like a

police vehicle. he left on foot because he did encounter police. there was some shooting between the police and the suspect. so they are trying to find this person on foot. they say they've got people of interest. the gunman had a what looked like a police vehicle, lights, uniform, taser badge and gun. these two shootings occurred in brooklyn park, minneapolis, brooklyn park, minnesota, and champlin, minnesota. they're both about 5 or 6 miles from each other. they're both suburbs to the northwest of minneapolis, and there are, as you know, protests going on across the city. we just heard that the protests will continue in minneapolis and that police are able to provide security for that. rob d'amico is with me. he is a former fbi special agent. rob stuff came out of there that was surprising to both you and me, including the fact that this person presented, like, a police officer. >> yeah, just not like uniform, but a vehicle with assembled lights and everything. so my thing is one obviously very well planned out. like this was not just a happenstance thing. was

this police vehicle stolen or did someone actually make one? make one, which is even, even more troubling. and then the sergeant who actually was over at the first shooting and just thought, well, let me go check on this other rep that lives in our thing. that's an unbelievable happenstance, because now they had him boxed in and he went out on foot. if they hadn't gone over there, he would have got away in his vehicle and he could be so far away from there now, they wouldn't have known. >> so the on foot chase is going to be interesting because unless this person has shed their clothes, they're dressed like a police officer. that's that's good and bad, right? that's confusing. people see police officers in this country. you don't think murderer. >> yeah, absolutely. i think it's going to make it more challenging because again, you have all these police out there and how to even the police who briefed us said he would have looked just like a police officer in this room. so the people in that town are really going to have to lock down the doors. he did say that if we send a police officer to your house, it will be in a pair. >> that's very interesting.

>> that's big because he is a single guy, you know, single person. so if they look out again, i would say anyone knocks on your door, call 911 to begin with. but one police officer i think may help stand out. and they're now keeping everyone in pairs. but it just when we were unpacking that, i was like, oh my goodness, this is a lot more than we first thought. >> they went discussing the concept of a targeted attack. now, again, both of these are democratic lawmakers, but the targeting seems to be that there was a list of names. they didn't they didn't come out and fully say it. but that's what the officer implied. >> yeah. he said in the vehicle when they searched the police vehicle, there was a manifest with the number of state politicians on there. so he quickly got those names, phoned the capitol and informed all the other police departments to put security on the people that were named in there. so it'll be interesting to see, you know, what's in this manifest. really what? but but the fact that he listed who was targeted kind of helps the police saying, okay, we now know where priority

protection goes. they'll probably put it on a bunch of others, too. >> he said. they've got people of interest. sounds like they got some information. >> they must have come across something, like i said, a person of interest. i don't i don't think it's just resemblance of like, hey, i, you know, we see him. there must be something leading them to that. and immediately i'm sure they're already starting to swear out search warrants for that person's residence. for all his communications. again, you want to see if there's someone else involved in this. you know, at this point, you have this priority of safety, and everything is going to come down to looking at safety. the case will come, but now it's trying to figure out who he who he is, where he may go. and was he getting help from anyone? because those are the safety priorities that you're going to go. >> this is tricky because for minneapolis area police today, these police are going to want to walk with somebody else the whole time. because now the word is out there that one lone person who may or may not be wearing a something that looks very convincingly like a police

uniform, at least not driving the car anymore, is out there. >> yeah. and again, if they encounter if a police officer encounters a single police. >> officer, they're going. >> to think. they're going to think, well, wait a second. so you can really even look at police on police shootings that they're going to have. they may pass a code word that to me that would be smart. we always had that when we were doing very close, coordinated operations. you have a code word that you can say. you don't. >> you don't. you may not belong there. >> yeah. if you say the first one and it doesn't come back right, then you know something's up. so it's a quick way to do, especially if it starts getting dark to reference that they're a friendly cop and not someone who's impersonating them. >> the brooklyn park police did encounter this guy. there was a there was a there was a bit of a shootout. >> from what i gathered. yes. so some. >> shots fired. they've got some sense of what what he looks like and what his size might be. so that that's helpful. >> yeah. hopefully they have maybe body cams and they can get a picture, a still picture off that body cam and start getting that out to everyone again. everything. you know, each

police department has different uniforms. so if this one has something distinguishing. but they did say vest. they said taser gun even and obviously a real gun. so but if they can get a picture off of there you know body cam get that out. that would really help too. >> they didn't seem to say, but i don't know if you heard it more clearly than i did because i was wondering, is it possible that it's an actual police officer? but they didn't seem to be implying that. >> they didn't. but it may be a again, it could be a reserve police officer. it could be like something like, again, to build a police looking vehicle, take some money. right. you know, and some time. right. >> so and a lot of planning and not getting caught by whatever chop shop you're using to say, why are we building a police. >> exactly. so maybe it was, it was in for repairs or it was, you know, in the back. and somehow they got it and it didn't like. but again, it's one of those could it be a reserve police officer or a police officer from an outside that, that county that they're not familiar with? it could could, you know, you don't want to take

anything off the table right now. >> yeah. the whether or not you shoot someone impersonating a law enforcement officer is against the law. >> yes, yes. >> i think it's universally against the law in america. yeah. so what are you supposed to do? because they've sort of said if somebody comes to your door, first of all, if it's a single police officer, be concerned about that. if it's if it's you're welcome to call 911. what do you actually say. like how does that interaction work? a police officer knocks on your door. what do you what what actually should transpire because people are scared sometimes they don't want to get into it. >> i wouldn't even get close to the door. i call 911, i said, and tell them i am so and so. at this address i have someone knocking on my door who i think may be a police officer. can you confirm it? the dispatcher will then go out on the radio and say, hey, do any officers are you at this location? and they're going to wait for someone to say, hopefully. now as officers are approaching houses, they should be radioing in, i am going to this house, and the dispatcher should be noting this so that when someone calls, they can quickly say, yes, that is our police officer and his name is this or

something to go back and forth with. so they really going to have to start understanding where their police officers are at. >> that's typical practice that a police officer would report when they're at a location. >> yes. you know, like if they're coming up for a reason, like, you know, say it was a suspicious act. hey, this is you know, it's, you know, so and so i'm approaching this house and they would say the address so that again, something if something does happen that, you know, they're not expecting, even if he goes down and he can't say anything, the dispatcher knows where he's at. i think it's even more important now that they are tracking their officers, maybe by street or something. and then when someone calls, i always used to tell my, my kids, like, if you get approached by a police officer and you're not sure if you're driving, you can go to police station, you drive right to the police station or call 911 and say, i am being pursued. i want to make sure because there are a bunch of fake impersonating cops out there. they like to give speeding tickets and you'll see some of them on like youtube that they actually pulled over. real police officer. and so there are people out there that

already do this so that the whole thing is you call 911, you tell them what city you're in, especially if you're on a cell phone and say, i am being pursued by a car with lights on. it doesn't look like a police officer. can you confirm it before i pull over, or are you trying to find a police station to pull into? >> what a conversation to be having? and for people in the minneapolis area, these are champlin and brooklyn park are suburbs of minneapolis. they're sort of suburban. they're not as dense as minneapolis, but they're they're they're still cities. so what's your sense of the undertaking here? they've got what they're calling an active, massive manhunt, an extensive manhunt. and that the perpetrator, the alleged perpetrator is on foot. >> so they're going to set up an emergency command post. i mean, that's the big thing. now, you have all the federal agencies because there are obviously small departments, but everyone who's in that department is getting called in. and the problem was there's probably a lot of police that were going to be on duty later for the protests, so probably everyone was looking at a later shift and

was down, but they were probably looking to come in to work, which does mean something like your your stuff's ready. you come in all hands on deck. you know, no one's getting unless you're out of the area you're coming in. but the federal side now is bringing big assets, and you're going to have minneapolis fbi office. they're going to be rolling out their entire swat teams, their their command posts on on thing to start communicating, coordinating. depending on how big the city is, you're going to start timing. if he ran, how far can he get. right. and then you're going to start trying to like squeeze it in. problem is, if he feels like he's getting blocked off, he may then try to break into a house, try to do it. and unfortunately, if you break into a house, you want it to be unoccupied. but if there's someone in there, you don't want them calling the police. so he'd have to quickly, you know, take over so they can't get a call off, which can then get dangerous. >> so this is an all hands on deck, not just for the police in the area, but literally everybody who lives in that area. everybody's got to have their head on a swivel and be

looking for anything that looks unusual, including a lone male police officer. >> yeah, i would you know, i always hate to say panic, but i would close all the window blinds. i would not let anyone see into my house, and i'd make sure my door was was locked. and if you can put something in front of it because again, he i think he may get desperate. we don't know if he was hit in the shootout, but he already got already killed. two got in a shootout with police. he is now in that mode that he is trying to survive. so if he comes out, he's. >> a. >> fugitive now, he's a fugitive and they're hunting him. so if he comes up to a house and you have a window open, he sees you. he may engage you through the window to try to get into your house. so again, i would close all the blinds. don't even go to the door. you can shoot through a door, especially if it has glass on the side. if anyone knocked, i'd call 911. i'd say, please confirm that you have a police officer at my door and i'll come out and talk to them. if they can't confirm that, then i would have them send the police there. >> rob, stay with me for just a

moment. i want to bring in cedric alexander. he's the former minneapolis community safety commissioner and an msnbc law enforcement analyst. cedric, thank you for being with us. can you tell us a bit about what we're dealing with in terms of the areas brooklyn park, champlin with respect to minneapolis? they're they're bedroom communities. they're people who in some cases work in minneapolis and live out there, but their their own cities. what's the what's it look like out there? >> yes, they are bedroom communities in in addition to that, they're also very close knitted communities as well, particularly a community like brooklyn park. and i think at this part, at this point, we don't know very much except what's being reported to us at this very moment. but i think the most disturbing part for me about what we know so far is that there was a list, a hit list of individuals that very well could have been targeted, are still being targeted, and we

don't know whether this involves a lone person who may be carrying out these acts, or it may be others involved. we don't know whether it's localized to that particular community, that state, or if it's something that could be more widespread. i think as the time goes on that they go on, we're going to know more. but it's certainly certainly is. and i think the commissioner explained it very well during his interview. commissioner jacobson, is that this is a very dark moment for democracy in this country. but i, we will get through this day. we will get through these events. this person will be at some point apprehended, but we really don't know whether this is localized or this is a more widespread concern. but i'm quite sure across the country, every respective state is going to be taking whatever precautions that they need to take. and i think you're going

to find the same thing among our federal legislators. across the country as well, too. we just don't know enough. but this is serious. we have two people dead. we have two people who are severely injured. we don't know whether they're going to survive this attack. but regardless of what happens here, at the end of the day, this is a bigger, broader problem in this nation that we really need to really pay very close attention to. and it's going to take all of us, not just law enforcement, but it's going to take the right, the left, republicans, democrats. i don't care what side of the aisle you stand on. it's going to take all of us to bring this under some type of, of, of control, because this is this is really way off the charts. and that community there in and around minneapolis, brooklyn park and all the rest of those suburban areas, they

are beautiful part of this, that state in this country. but thankful that you have some very responsible and very good law enforcement there. i know commissioner jacobson and director drew evans, who's headed that state investigation. they are thorough, they're smart, they're professional, and they're not going to let go until they find some resolve around this issue. >> so i just want to mind this a little bit in the history of political assassinations, in this in this country, people have come together. in theory, nobody should ever think that that's a good idea. there is a there's a tenor. we don't know who else was on that list. we don't know whether they were all elected officials. but americans generally do not react ever well to an attempted assassination or the killing of an elected official, regardless of whether they share views with that elected official. >> and that is very true. that certainly is very true. and

hopefully that's going to be the case here. and hopefully this unfortunate incident this morning, early this morning, will bring us together as a nation and take what just occurred in the great state of minnesota as a to all of us is that we really have to close ranks right now. everyone, every one of us that are americans, we really have to close ranks now and be part of this process and apprehension of this individual who may be disguising themselves as a law enforcement officer. but yes, you're absolutely correct about that. >> what's your can you just tell us lay out for us these these areas, these bedroom communities that are north, in this case northwest of minneapolis? it looks like these police forces are all helping each other right now because they need the resources. there is a manhunt underway, and they've got all these protests that they've got to provide security for. what's the level of coordination between the various police forces? and is the city of

minneapolis police force involved? >> i would imagine i'm quite sure that they are all those agencies, the chiefs and the sheriff's, all law enforcement personnel read at the local, state or federal agency. they all are friends, are very much acquainted with each other. they all have worked cases together. and of course, they have a history of doing work together over the course of the last number of years. so them knowing each other, them working together, them bringing in assets as needed, and having a sense of command and control is not going to be new to them. and they're going to be very, very aggressive in terms of how they pursue the apprehension of this subject. so i think on all those points you just mentioned there, that hopefully this come to a resolve when this person is apprehended. my guess is they probably know who it is at this point. but as you have heard earlier, they're going to be

very limited in sharing information because this is an ongoing investigation. they're working diligently to try to identify who this person is at, at, you know, at a minimum. but this is going to be a long day. we got a long day ahead of us, and it's just getting started. and really, this is a time this nation really has to pull together at this particular moment in time. it's unacceptable. >> in a democracy. it's going to be a long and sad day. i just got handed a list of political assassinations in this country. i will say it is a longer list than i hoped it would be. this is not as rare as we think. rob. tell me why. why the fbi is involved. is that because it's lawmakers? is it is it because somebody impersonating a police officer, what's the fbi's? >> they can just do it at the request of a federal of local law enforcement assistant. there is some federal crimes in here,

you know, so but just with the simple, you know, request for assistance, they can assist. and now he's he's actually a fugitive. so they can they can tie that in. so that's easy. it's done all the time. and then they have really the big resources that they can throw at this. >> the resources at the moment. because i think cedric was just saying, and i think you've also implied that they probably have some sense of who they're dealing with. they certainly know what the person looks like. they know they're on foot at the moment, unless they brought a change of clothes. but although that seems sophisticated enough that maybe they did, they they does. the fbi being in at this point strengthen the manhunt? is there something about finding this fugitive that the fbi can add to? >> well, fbi one thing is people like, they they just can throw so many more people at it. they have like the swat teams are regional, so they can bring in swat teams from other field offices nearby. minneapolis is out there. they have a command post with all the communications set up. so again, everyone takes a bit of it, like maybe the

evidence, you know, the crime scenes. fbi has some great evidence response teams that they can throw at it because these pd's are now dealing with two murder investigations, attempted murder and a manhunt so they can take something off their plate to make sure that they do it. so and they work together all the time. we do national security events. >> and what you pointed out to me last week when we were talking about la, that the fbi, local police, state police, they have a system by which they learned at post 911, they developed these joint task forces where they've learned each other's language. >> yes, absolutely. and the communication systems are the same. so they can really quickly put something together. you know, it's still a local investigation and they have the lead. fbi is not going to come in like the old days in the movies and take over. it's going to be like, you tell me what you need and we'll make it happen. and i guarantee the sac in minneapolis has already talked to fbi director and deputy director saying, what do you need? and there's big planes here that can bring a lot of assets out. like i was on the

hostage rescue team, right? certain manhunts. we have a plane that's wheels up in four hours, and we have an entire hostage rescue team unit flying there that has very sophisticated night vision and thermal and all those other things, especially if it goes into the night and you're doing all that, you know, hrt can come in and again bring some assets at a local pd. >> and of course for, for on foot chase, they can put helicopters up, which is very very helpful. but but the local police are likely to be the lead on this because if someone's running around these towns, the local police are going to have a much better sense of what's not normal, what's out of place, where could people hide? what what field could they be in? that's that's sort of local police intelligence. >> what we did for like d.c. sniper case because they had the resident knowledge. we put a maryland state trooper, a montgomery county swat guy, and fbi hrt guy in one vehicle. so you had the local knowledge in with federal agent that may not have that knowledge. and then when they find something again, all those resources can go to

it. there'll be multiple tactical teams waiting. you don't want to commit a tactical team until you have him, maybe in a house or something that you can lock off. so you're you keep your tactical units back almost in reserve. you have everyone doing the manhunt. and then when you find something, then you can bring your resources to it. >> cedric, one of the things that one of the officers said, the colonel said, is that they know that these protests are going on across minneapolis. there are many protests in every state. they're going to be 2000 across the country. they did not invite the protesters to not come to the protest. they felt they said, we can keep the protests safe. >> yeah. and they're able and capable of doing so. if that's the recommendation of that commissioner. of course, here again, i have a great deal of confidence in commissioner jacobson and the governor as well. and this is going to be a big day across this country. and i believe they will certainly have the resources available. they're going to even be on a

much higher alert. but this is also an opportunity for that community and communities here again across this country, for all of us to be watchful, to be mindful and to make sure that there are peaceful protests that are going on and that we cooperate with our local authorities in our respective states. this is that moment right now. this is that moment in which we as a nation really have to come together to get through this. going to be a very long day. we have an active investigation, and even that person is apprehended. in the next few minutes, we will still have two dead people, elected officials, two that are severely injured, who we don't know are going to survive their wounds. and that incident in and of itself is a marker in time and space, which we all need to note. and this is where we need

to turn the corner at this very moment and come together as a nation. make sure all these protests that are going on across the country, everyone is looking out, taking care of each other, doing what needs to be done, working with your local authorities. this is not a time for us to be separated. there are people out there who are doing mean things and we have to, as a nation, stand together because we cannot have our elected officials, our judges, individual private citizens or anyone feeling threatened for their safety as a result of a few who have gone unhinged. that's just cannot be acceptable at any level. >> you are right in that this is going to be a long day, and if this person is apprehended, there are still two people dead. there are two people in serious condition in the hospital, cedric and rob. i'm going to ask you to stay with us for a moment. we're going to continue

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this morning in what appears to be a politically motivated assassination. minnesota's thoughts and prayers are with her family, her loved ones, her children and her parents. my prayers also go out to state senator john hoffman and his wife yvette, who were each shot multiple times. the hoffman's are out of surgery at this time and are receiving care, and we are cautiously optimistic, optimistic they will survive this assassination attempt. >> officials say the suspect posed, as law enforcement officials say, by the way, with a with a gun, a taser, a badge, a uniform and what appears to be a police vehicle. it's unclear whether it's a real police vehicle or one that he he made. officials say an extensive manhunt is underway for a suspect. it remains unclear if the suspect worked alone. investigators say the suspect did engage in gunfire with officers while fleeing hartman's home, and was able to escape on foot. fbi deputy director dan bongino has confirmed that the fbi will be working on the investigation as well. we've

also got a note from pam bondi, the attorney general, to say that fbi resources are on the ground. and donald trump has just posted about this. i'll just read you what he has said. he has said, i've been briefed on the terrible shooting that took place in minnesota, which appears to be a targeted attack against state lawmakers. our attorney general, pam bondi, and the fbi are investigating the situation. they will be prosecuting anyone involved to the fullest extent of the law. such horrific violence will not be tolerated in the united states of america. god bless the great people of minnesota, a truly great place. now, this is all happening on the same day that we're expecting protests across the country. possibly more than a million people have started to gather in many of the more than 2000 locations where protests are expected around the country, including, by the way, in the minnesota area, in the minneapolis area, in minnesota. joining me again is rob d'amico, former fbi special agent, and cedric alexander, former minneapolis community safety commissioner and an msnbc law

enforcement analyst. cedric, i know you've got a lot of contacts in the area. the press conference was was fairly fulsome, but there's a few things we don't know. we don't know where this police vehicle came from, whether it's a real police vehicle or he had one mocked up. we don't know whether he was working alone. and for the moment we don't know where he is. the police are trying to close in on him. the fact that he's on foot is probably helpful. they did say something very interesting in that press conference that they're pairing police now so that if one police officer comes to your door, you might be suspicious because this person is working on their own. so a lot of there's a great deal of tension for the people around the minneapolis area and in the area of champlin and, and brooklyn park. >> yes, it is, and certainly it is. and i think one thing i would encourage every resident in and around that community, of course, the great take a great deal of caution. do it. as the police chief in brooklyn park had already advised, stay in the house. keep yourself very

centrally located and contact with others as well too, until this subject is brought into custody. and we don't know how long that may take, but i think equally as important, if anybody does come to your door with a police uniform on, maybe they're doing an active investigation. as you've already heard. certainly you can call your local 911, say i have a uniform officer at my door. so they at 911 can verify it. because the goal here is to make people feel comfortable in this very difficult time. we don't know who this individual will may be. we certainly do hope he is not a law enforcement person or any kind of way affiliated with law enforcement. but as you heard mr. damico say here earlier, we really don't know. and i think there's still a lot to be

determined. my guess is he may not be. he may be pretending to be involved in law enforcement. but of course, having a marked vehicle out front of some sort certainly do require a whole lot of work in order to be able to disguise yourself to that level. but i think at this point, for everyone that's in and around that community is just to stay harbor there in place until more is learned to the identity of this person as this day particularly goes on. but there's a lot questions here i know that we may have here in the media, and people in that community across the country may have, but they're very smart. they're at the state police there in minnesota, and they're going to share information as much as they can, but they certainly do not want to jeopardize the integrity of this case, which is a very sensitive

one at this very moment, on this particular day that we know is going to be a very. challenging, if you will. >> rob, let's just examine what what cedric was saying about we hope this is not a police officer. they didn't imply that it was a police officer, but they certainly said this person has all the kit and gear that a police officer would have, including. i mean, as you said, there are people who cosplay cops all over this country. it's got a full car. >> yeah, that that was the surprising one. and then the other thing he said is a vest. so if he has a bulletproof vest on, it also changes tactics on the police actually when they encounter him. so again, like you said. >> noting, by the way, we're here in d.c. for the parade and to get into the secure area. one of the things that they determined is that you cannot come in with ballistic armor. you can't go into that thing so that if you are a bad actor, the police don't want other people with bulletproof vests shooting

at them. >> yeah, it is a giveaway. like if you're going somewhere and you have a bulletproof vest on. but it does. like when we were getting briefed on a, you know, barricaded subject. if you knew he had a vest on, it changed how you encounter him. >> what you use, where you aim, what you watch. >> where you aim. >> yeah. jim cavanaugh is joining me right now. jim, this is a very interesting conversation because the governor and others have said these were targeted shootings. there was a list of some sort and both of the names of the people who were shot. the two elected politicians were on the list. we don't know who else is on the list. we don't know whether this is somebody who was targeting democratic politicians or people who supported a particular. we don't know what that is, but it does help the police. the fact that they put eyes on him, they know what he's probably wearing. they know he's on foot and they know who he was targeting. it does help from a profiling perspective of figuring out who this person is to close in on him. >> no. exactly. right. because now you have all the law enforcement masked, you. >> know.

>> the. >> city, county, state. >> police, all the federals, everybody's there. they've got their command post going. they have a valid description. we're in the hot hours of pursuit. they can have aircraft up fixed wing helicopters. and the public. >> is on. >> your side. >> so this is the crucial. >> hours to find the guy. and he's going to be in this pseudo police car. he is an officer. >> we don't really know the police car. so he's on foot because they got police car. >> okay. >> they got the police car. he's on foot. well, that's even easier. so yeah, they can they can shrink that area down and they can try to, you know, flush him out. but a person who's murdered like this and shot, you know, multiple people is quick to use that trigger against someone to aid in his escape. >> so let's talk about this because you've dealt with this, this person. there's an element of desperation. now, they don't have their car. they know they're in trouble for something. and they and the police are after them. obviously, this person did. to completely dress up like a

police officer and have a police car seems to know something about the workings of police. so he knows that the police are after him. and you said something very interesting. you've got the community on your side. so it's this man against everybody right now, which is a desperate and dangerous situation. >> no. that's right. i mean, that's what you got to leverage in these situations and especially in these hot hours. and you make the point dramatically here. you know, when these guys get loose, we talked about some escapees from arkansas and new orleans recently. when they get loose, what they've got to have is a place to hide transportation, food and a weapon because the weapon allows them to get more fuel, food, money means to escape. so he's on foot, he doesn't have his vehicle, but he's got his pistol or his rifle, whatever he's carrying. so he's got that. and that's his key. that's his key to get transportation, food, money and fuel with that firearm. so he's going to be a guy. like i say, he's not he's not hindered from

pulling the trigger. we know from just this this event. he shot multiple people in cold blood here. so he's going to shoot somebody if he has to, to commandeer another vehicle to get wherever it is he wants to go. now he's in flight mode, but he's also trying to survive. you know a good point here and that you recognize that he didn't kill himself at the scene. he didn't shoot himself and go out in a blaze of glory with the police. he ran away. so he's trying to survive, and that puts him in a different mind frame. you know, he's trying to survive. he's trying to get away. maybe. maybe he wants to do it again. maybe he wants to attack someone else. quite an elaborate assassination plot that we're viewing in the hot hours right after it here. quite an elaborate plot to have all this gear in the police car and to go to the home. like this. it's quite elaborate. >> the tim walz and i, you know, he's experienced politicians, so

he probably wouldn't say something that he's not supposed to say. so when he said it was targeted, i was wondering what that meant. and then they said they found a list which which which tells you a lot, right? this is the world you lived in to some degree, jim, of figuring out what the motivations are. i'm sure they can reverse engineer, figure it out. or maybe there was a note, but they seem to have a sense of it because they've offered protection. they've put police protection at the homes of other legislators. i don't know if it's generally other legislators, legislators or other people who were on the list, but that much we know. so they seem to at least have some way of getting ahead of this guy other than what he's going to do randomly in terms of trying to get a car or get into somebody's house or get food. >> no. exactly. right. i mean, and rob and i both know, i mean, we would use the, the profilers and at quantico, they're not we call them behavioral analysis guys. atf had two in there since 1984. fbi has a great unit ther. on cases like this. we would always use them to give us try to give us a little insight.

certainly anybody's on the list would be protected. and, you know, officers are going to them. they're notifying them, where are you? where are your family members? do you know this happened? do you know what the circumstances are? and they're going to be anybody who's on the list is going to get some police presence protection advice, counseling during these desperate hours. so they're going to get that if your name's on the list. but if you're a leader in minnesota, if you are a political leader of any stripe, it doesn't matter. or even a former, because this was the former speaker of the house in minnesota, you should be extra smart, extra on guard if you are even a judge or a high ranking police official. somebody who is always in the public eye. this guy is out for some people that he thinks, you know, he has a grudge against or a reason to kill, a raise on trial, a reason for living. he wants to kill some people and he had the list. so we don't know who's on the list, but the commanders can can look at that

alley and they can say, or who else is on this list? are they legislators who voted for certain things that this guy doesn't like? are they one political party or another? you know, that's what they got to look at. >> rob. one of the things you're pointing out is that, and jim's pointing out is that he can only go so far. and eventually these people all get caught. the interesting part here is that anything he does, if he uses that gun to get food or to get a car or to get gas or whatever, whatever he needs, it's yet one more data point that's going to get them closer to finding him. >> that's the key. like anytime you're a fugitive and then you do something that someone can then identify, call the police, or hear something happen, then that focuses that larger manhunt now where you don't know where he is to a smaller point. and like we talked about, they have resources, tactical teams standing by. as soon as they get something they're all going to collapse on that location. so he again, if he's involved in law enforcement, like the chief that was down in arkansas, knew that. like if he does something, if he takes a car and it's reported,

then you have helicopters looking for one car, right? you know, so he really wants to do something where it doesn't get out. and that's unfortunately where it could become dangerous. if he goes into a house to take the car, he may not want the people in the house to be able to call after. so he may do something violent to them to, to in fact have so they don't call the police. and then the car is identified. >> so while you're confident most law enforcement experts are confident they'll get this guy, these hot hours, as jim says, are perilous for people in the area. >> yeah it is. it is more dangerous for the people in their homes right now. desperation. he's got to get a vehicle to try to get some distance, and he doesn't want to do it in a way that the police know what vehicle it is. then you're going to get into a high speed chase. helicopter is going to be out there. so he may have to, as jim said, he may have to break into a house that has a vehicle there to get the keys, and he may kill the occupants so that they can't call the police

and say, my vehicle was stolen. >> you spent time in the fbi's hostage rescue team? yes. let's talk about that for a second, because they've got to be thinking about that. right? if this if this becomes part of his desperation that he takes hostages, tell me how that works. >> so again, he breaks into a house, police find out about it. they surround the house and now he like if they if he had not run out of the back of the representative's house, he would then be called what we call a barricaded subject. then you have the tactical team and all you do is basically you surround it so he can't get out of there, and then you have tactical units, and that's where the snipers come in to cover all the windows. then you have to figure out if there's people in there that are hostages, so that changes it. but then you're going to have the crisis negotiators come in. so i've been to crisis negotiators, school, fbi, minneapolis has them, minneapolis pd has them. they're going to form a negotiation team. you'll have one person try to talk to them. you can either call into the house. we have phones that you can throw in that they can talk to them because you want to talk

to them. you want to hear his plight. you all the you show empathy and you listen to him and you realize. >> that all always a starting point. even if even if this guy's killed somebody. >> oh, absolutely. because again, going through that door, even if there's no hostages in there, going through that door is still a tactical problem. you could get someone killed. so you want him to give up? you want him to finally figure it out. he can't get out and give up and walk out, put his hands up type of thing. so i always say, if there's hostages in there and you think he's going to harm them, that's when they do a hostage rescue. that's when you blow the door down. you go in with the swat team or hrt goes in and you are actually taking higher risk because you're now trying to save someone's life. so you might you might do tactics that you normally don't do on a drug sweep because you're you're there to get in as fast as you can to eliminate him so he can't harm the hostages. but until then, you're talking to him. you know, there's no reason to go in. the longer it

goes, the more time is on your side to get him to surrender. so the crisis negotiators, they do an unbelievable job. and they have a team they're analyzing. they're one person is talking to them. you have a whole bunch of other negotiators listening to what he's saying, writing notes to the guy who's the who's the talker. you have a team leader rotating in and out. if they think like if they find out who he is and you can get his mom, his sister, somebody, you also want to do a background check to make sure the person that you put on the phone, he is not. >> got some beef with. >> exactly. so you want that you want to, you know, go through that. because if he hears a friendly voice and it's his mother, it's his sister or someone that can talk to him, it means something. so they'll be looking for that too. but this, this whole crisis negotiation, they do it all the time. big cities, you know, do it a lot. and fbi, we have the training center for it and we train most of the local ones. and they work on these all the time. you always have even big events. you have the negotiators on standby. >> so and that's an interesting

point jim, because they're now ready for this. the bottom line is we don't know that. we don't know what this is going to be caught in the next few minutes or not. but they're ready for the idea that this could happen. the police did, when asked, say that they've got people of interest. they use the word people of interest. who knows? by now they may have very specifically, they may have narrowed it down to one person, but they've got an idea of who they're looking for. they certainly know what they look like because they engage them in a in a firefight. they know for the moment he's on foot. but to your point, he may have found himself a car, but they they they're soon going to know who they're looking for, which makes ultimately this person's escape sort of dooms it in the long run. >> right. well, i think a couple of things. one is officers saw him and there's some kind of list that they've uncovered now that could be on a computer, could be on the web, it could be a written list, we don't know. but between the evidence of that list and officers seeing him, detectives and agents can probably quickly put together a few people that could be and

work from there. so they possibly have his identity already, which helps them a lot. it might let them know, you know, where he might go, where he might hang out or have been in the past. you know, he might have thought he was going to get away with this and just go home. and so he might not have a plan, a deep plan for escape. you know, that he's going to go hide in the mountain hovel somewhere, you know, and live a life, you know, lighting fires and forever. you know, he probably thought, well, i'll get away with it. i'll go home. i'll watch it on the news. that avenue may be shut off. if the police saw him, they got this list somehow. but that list, no matter how it came, it's going to provide some evidentiary lead to the agents and detectives. because, like i say, it's handwritten. it's on. it's on the web. it's posted somewhere. this is where the cyber agents and detectives come in and they'll, you know, route back through it. if it was posted on

the web, if it's handwritten, they'll check it for fingerprints. they'll look at the handwriting. you know, there might be something there. they can tell. and plus, you know, he fled the scene quickly of the assault. so it could be other evidence in there. there could be, you know, he could have some drop something, left, something we don't know. so there's possibly they have they're working quickly to identify who he is. that's one part. the second part is, you know, obviously his whereabouts. and just to build on what you and rob discussed, i mean, i think this is clearly the case. i mean, he's so desperate that he's got to get a vehicle so that can be a carjacking. could be going in someone's house. and with the purpose of, you know, getting money, getting a car, a different car, and, you know, you could tie the people up and lock them in the basement and not hurt him, or he could kill them. it depends on the level of resistance with a guy like this to what he wants to buy. and rob pointed out he's exactly right. what's critical to him is the time. he doesn't want the person

to report immediately to the police that you know, when he leaves with the vehicle, if he were to carjack somebody, he's going to have to take that person with him. yeah. so he can't call anybody or shoot him and dump him in the bar ditch because he needs time. time is what he needs. and he's this guy's savvy enough. you know, a guy that would dress up like an officer and have this police car. he's savvy enough to know all that. so that's where the danger lies currently in minnesota. that's the. >> way he knows his time is running out. what that makes him do is what the concern is. so this is a very much an active and worrisome situation. we're going to continue to cover it. going to continue to cover it. stand by. we're con waterproof flooring with an dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ miebo is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one cause of dry eye: too much tear evaporation. for relief that's ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ remove contact lenses before using miebo.

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>> many people who. >> live here. just trying to understand what is the national guard going to do above and beyond what we saw on the street? do you think that there's a way out of this? where does this go from here? what happened? >> he needs to stand up. president. united states needs to stand down. >> president trump has placed the national guard in between people that want to protest for the rights of migrants. and essentially this building. senator padilla was detained by the secret service. are you physically hurt, senator padilla? >> we come on the air with breaking news. >> we are going to go through. >> this with. >> the available facts. >> this next. >> domino is. >> getting set. >> up to fall. >> we are seeing an unprecedented assault on our democratic order. >> it's not. >> a.

>> normal presidency. it's not. >> a normal reality. >> we are all living in. >> we have never seen anything like it. >> our mission. >> to bring you the truth. >> is more. >> important than ever. >> it has been. >> a day. >> all right. we're following breaking news out of minnesota, a manhunt. a massive manhunt underway after one minnesota lawmaker and her spouse were fatally shot. and a second lawmaker and his spouse were injured in separate, targeted shootings at their homes in eastern minnesota, governor tim walz says state representative melissa hortman and her husband, mark, were shot and killed in a separate attack. state senator mark hoffman and his white wife yvette, were shot and they survived. officials say the suspect was impersonating a law enforcement officer. he wore a badge, a uniform, a gun. he had a taser, and he drove what appeared to be a police vehicle. a manhunt is underway for a suspect, though it remains unclear if they worked alone.

investigators say the suspect engaged in gunfire with officers while fleeing hauptmann's home and was able to escape. the fbi director, dan bongino, has confirmed that the fbi will be working on the investigation as well. we also heard from the attorney general to say the fbi is already on the ground and is offering more resources, and this is all happening as we were already expecting an historic day in america, a day of protests against president trump's policies across the country, protests that were planned across the country, including in and around minneapolis. there were a number a number of protests that were planned for minnesota. we just got word that the no protest in northeast minneapolis has been canceled due to a shelter in place order. joining me now is jacob thomas. he's an air force veteran and communications director at common defense. he's one of the organizers of one of today's protests in minneapolis. now, jacob, thank you for joining us. just help us keep this clear. the protest that you're organizing is going on.

but one protest nearby has been canceled. >> yes. >> thanks so much for having me on. and that is correct. we. >> the northeast. minneapolis rally protest and the anoka city protest have both been canceled because of the shelter in place orders and the existing threat that is still out there. but the saint paul college and saint and the capital, minnesota capital protest is still planning to go on. we have a large, you know, group of security and, you know, volunteer medics and marshals here. i don't know, you see, probably some of them behind me, but we are planning to move forward here. but this is a very tragic day for minnesota and for our country and for democracy. political violence should never be a resort here. and these assassinations, which is what they are politically motivated assassinations are absolutely unacceptable in america.

>> and