order@nuts.com. yes, we have more than nuts, but still the website is just nuts.com. >> it's 8 p.m. here in new york. i'm antonia hilton along with ayman mohyeldin and catherine rampell. tonight, raids, roundups and the law. when it comes to immigration, it's down to the president versus the courts again. >> plus, benjamin netanyahu says his attacks on iran could lead to regime change. but is trump willing to go along? >> and political comedy duo the good liars joins us to tell us

what they are hearing in maga world. >> all right. >> welcome back. >> everyone, to the weekend prime time. we begin this hour with another legal win for the trump administration's immigration agenda. a federal appeals court on thursday blocked an earlier ruling that ordered the administration to return control of the troops back to the state. a new hearing is now scheduled for this tuesday. the decision comes after california governor gavin newsom sued the trump administration over their deployment of troops in order to quell anti ice protests in los angeles. president trump continues to argue that federal intervention is necessary, but in his order, federal judge breyer says that in dispatching the troops, trump both exceeded the scope of his statutory authority and violated the 10th amendment of the constitution. and while this legal back and

forth continues, ice raids are still terrifying. immigrants and their families in los angeles and beyond. joining us now is temidayo aganga williams, a former federal prosecutor and senior investigative counsel for the house select committee to investigate the january 6th attack. it's great to have you with us. so what do you make of this legal back and forth and whether or not it was at one point a win for california and reclaiming the national guard, but then again, by the end of the week, the authority was granted to trump to continue. yeah. >> so starting. >> first with judge. breyer's decision. >> what breyer was considering is whether the president had the authority to federalize the. national guard. now, the president has permission to do that, but he has to meet certain circumstances, three of them. so first, is there an invasion by a foreign power? that was not question here. second, is there a rebellion that is ongoing here? the president said, yes, that was happening. and then third, whether the president was unable to execute federal law also in dispute here, judge

breyer, in his what i thought was a thorough and detailed analysis, says there's not a factual basis to find either of those last two categories. this happened here. what's also interesting, though, is that he says that he disposes of the president's. >> argument. >> that that very question can be reviewed by judges. president trump's team says that that is not up to others to decide. he, the president, can decide whether there's a. >> rebellion. >> whether he's unable to execute the laws. and that's enough. judge breyer slaps that down wholeheartedly. and i would not go as far as to say that the appellate court handed a victory to president trump. what the appellate court said is, let's keep things as they are, the status quo. so it's not so much a victory, but it's a pause because and i think that's fair. and a decision of this kind of importance that you want a higher court here in appellate court deciding what happens before the ultimate decision is arrived at. >> which. >> would be, i suspect, the supreme court. and you have a lot of things that are making their way to the supreme court. yeah. do we have a sense of when all of these constitutional issues that are playing out will

get resolved and if they will get resolved by the supreme court, because when things stay the status quo, the authority stays with the president to continue to do what people like gavin newsom and karen bass, the mayor of los angeles and the governor of california, respectively, are arguing is destroying communities and damaging the constitution. well. >> when i say. >> a higher court, the appellate court is one of those higher courts. so ultimately it likely will get to the supreme court. but the appellate court that issued the stay is going to hear argument and then ultimately make a determination. and at that point, that court may say there doesn't need to be a pause in status quo. the next question after that is, does the supreme court get involved? and then they now say, we are we want to hear this before it can go forward. but it's common for appellate court to weigh in and for that to continue. so we may see a resolution here quicker than we think. >> well, so the supreme court in the past has been relatively open to the idea of the president and the president alone having a lot more power, right? having a lot more

executive authority. how do these arguments fit into the kinds of jurisprudence that we've seen them be interested in and rule on in recent cases? it sounds like they're likely to take this up. yeah, right. so what do we know from how they've ruled in the past and how that applies to these particular questions at issue? >> so i. >> do think. >> the conservative. >> legal tradition. >> does have a whole lot of deference to the executive. and we see that going all the way back to the bush era. and so i do think if i'm president trump and i'm coming to this supreme court, i feel pretty confident that they will defer to him on the underlying fact finding, which is really the question here. was there, in fact a rebellion happening? from my view, this is all pretextual. there's no evidence of a rebellion. judge breyer lays out in detail there are not facts to support what the president is asserting. but is the supreme court going to get that deep in question and challenge these pretextual reasons, or is the court going to say the executive, as a commander in chief, has the ability and

authority to make those ultimate determinations without further oversight? they may. >> to put it bluntly, i guess, how afraid are you that we are approaching something scary here as the executive branch amasses more power? i imagine it's very hard, even years down the line, to reverse that once it's accepted and normalized. i think people are processing still images that they've seen just in the past seven or so days. we saw a senator tackled to the ground, senator alex padilla. you know, of course, he's not actually charged with anything. but i think just the fact that someone in that branch of government could be treated that way was alarming to many americans. and now many, i think, see what's happening out there and has this case progresses as part of a broader power pattern of this administration, just simply not wanting to have to do what courts ask of them? where do you think we are?

>> so i'm a little more pessimistic. >> i don't think we are approaching a problem. i think we have sprinted and we're running past the problem. i think we already at that stage we're not approaching. the question is whether we're going to have the ability to reverse course here. the rule of law is clearly under attack in this country, and the president has no qualms about asserting in legal brief again and again that he answers to no one what justice what judge breyer was pushing. >> back. >> against is that very question he's telling. he's telling president trump. you answer to me. i can step in and tell you whether or not there's a rebellion, because i can observe facts as well as you can. so my concern, i think, has been has been held strongly since january 6th. you want to talk about a rebellion. you want to talk about people rejecting the authority of the government. you should look at what happened at the capitol on january 6th. but the president, president trump, then took no action. he didn't seek to call the national guard. he didn't seek to intervene. he didn't seek to call the department of defense. he did nothing. and when you compare that to what's happening here, when you see massively peaceful

protests, when you see citizens exercising their first amendment rights, and then you see that being the opportunity where the federal government is stepping in to use federal force, that's incredibly disheartening. and i think it's dangerous. and people should take note of that. now. >> is los angeles a test case? >> i think these are all test cases. i do i think they're all test cases. i think the administration is pushing the bounds of the executive power again and again and again. and the courts are stepping up again and again and again. but if the supreme court doesn't step up and the supreme court doesn't place some boundaries on this administration, then ultimately this will all be for nothing. >> so a lot of these issues that we're talking about are rooted in the objections to what ice has been doing, right, that they've been ramping up many of their tactics. they're showing up at world cup parties, working with security guards to bar volunteers and reporters and lawyers. i believe from court hearings, immigration court hearings, they're taking kids from foster care. and then obviously, we've seen all these raids at workplaces and other sites. what legal recourse do

those who are targeted actually have in these cases? it's a little bit unclear to me how much of this is legal and how much of this is not legal. and it almost feels like a naive question to be asking that at this point. >> so it depends who you're talking about. i think what's really scary is when you have stories of american citizens being detained by ice, when you have stories of those with status and green cards being detained, where there isn't a legal basis for them to be taken into detention. when you're talking about those who may not have status, well, you know, there is a legal basis to detain those individuals. but if we compare how different administrations have handled this, the term discretion is what comes into play. president biden and president obama focused on those who had committed violent crimes, those who actually threaten national security. they didn't focus on individuals who were otherwise hardworking, trying to create a life for themselves. this administration currently has been indiscriminate in how it's going after people, how it's done raids, how it's focused on hardworking people on on farms

or other labor intensive jobs. so that discretion is what happens when you have a. >> but they have the legal power to do these things. >> they do. >> have the legal power. if you're an undocumented. yes, the government has the legal power to enforce the immigration laws, but that's not you know, i was a prosecutor. you have the power to do a whole lot of things, but you have discretion to decide what is best for the objectives of public safety. and i think that's where judgment comes into place. >> temidayo williams, thank you so much for your insight tonight. we appreciate you. coming up. israel's assassination request rejected. we'll discuss what this means for the escalating conflict for the escalating conflict between israel and iran. why'd i go to the doctor? i remember being so light-headed, i could barely stand. good thing my crew nudged me to get checked. turns out i have afib. which increases the risk of stroke about 5x. my heart would race just taking my son to practice. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness can come and go.

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certainty of four imprint. check out four imprint.com. >> for imprint. >> for certain. >> a stunning development in the escalating conflict between israel and iran. a us official tells nbc news that president trump vetoed an israeli proposal to assassinate iran's supreme leader. israeli officials have denied the claim, calling it,

quote, fake news. on fox news today, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu didn't rule out a regime change in iran. >> is regime change part of the effort here. >> could certainly be the result because the iran regime is very weak. i think it's basically left. >> with two things. >> it's its plans to have atomic bombs and ballistic missiles. that's basically what iran has. they certainly don't have the people. 80% of the people will throw these theological thugs out. >> and this development comes as deadly airstrikes between israel and iran intensify, with both sides now expanding attacks. and president donald trump today said the united states is not involved in israel's military strikes against iran. but, quote, it's possible we could get involved. joining us now is hooman majd, an american iranian journalist. he is also an nbc contributor. hooman, thank you for being here with us tonight. my pleasure. so how likely is it

that the united states is going to be completely dragged into a conflict here? >> i think it. depends very much on how this war continues. i think i mean, certainly the us is involved in the sense that it's defending israel from iranian missiles. so the iranians believe that the us is already involved. iran, the us is involved in supplying hellfire missiles to israel, which. israel uses to bomb iran. so the us is involved evolved from netanyahu is talking about is bombing fordow, which is the heavily, heavily guarded mountain hideout where they have been enriching uranium, which israel cannot destroy by its own. so that's what they're talking about. what that's what he's talking about. and the israelis are talking about is getting the us to supply israel. with bunker busting bombs, or for the us to do it themselves to destroy that facility. the idea is to destroy iran's ability to ever have a nuclear

program, weapons program. >> and is that possible? >> no, that's not possible. i mean, it is possible under and this is where netanyahu's comment that regime change might happen. it is possible under regime change. yes. you could do an iraq on iran. there's no question that iran could not face an all out assault by a militarily superior army and air force that israel possesses. and if you add in britain, france, us, on top of that, iran cannot survive that kind of onslaught in the same way that saddam hussein couldn't. and saddam hussein, we had boots on the ground. and i think in iran's case, you might not even need boots on the ground, given the kind of damage that israel has shown it can do to cities like gaza, like in gaza. so then, yes, if you have regime change and you have an imposed regime on the iranian people that agrees to dismantle every thing and take the scientists who now

they killed 14 so far, nuclear scientists, but iran just didn't have 14 nuclear scientists. it has thousands. yeah. and they have the knowledge and they have the centrifuge knowledge how to build centrifuges. then the question becomes what kind of regime comes afterwards if you do that regime change or if you create regime, and what kind of support will that regime have among the people? and netanyahu himself just admitted, as you showed in the clip, that 80%, he said of iranians hate the regime. so 20% don't 20% of 90 million people. that's a substantial number of people. and they're the armed ones. they're the ones with the guns. so if you remember, you know, saddam hussein's yeah episode and the sunni uprising, iran would have something similar with the regime change that is enforced on on them, i believe. and then, you know, it's a big question what happens. and then, you know, is it another war that

then the us has to get involved in and have a proconsul come in and run the place for a while, because there's no indication right now that reza pahlavi, who's the shah's oldest son and the crown prince, who is sort of a pretender to the throne, and his supporters want him to come back, and he has some support in iran, no question, if he has the ability to put together a government ability to run the country, he doesn't have a government in exile. he's supported by israel quite openly. yeah, but. >> he supports what israel is doing. >> he support. he has so far supported what israel is doing. and then you've got the mujahedeen mek based in albania, who are despised by the iranian people, by and large, because of their siding with saddam hussein in that war against the iranian people. so you've got these, you know, you've got reza pahlavi siding with israel, you've got the mek siding with saddam hussein. there's not a lot of room there for an opposition. >> what happens to the nuclear talks are they is they're gone. they're just completely gone.

>> well, i don't know if completely iran has said they won't talk until there's a cease fire, basically until there's no more war. and so, you know, as long as this is going on, netanyahu doesn't seem to want to stop the war any day now. trump doesn't seem to want to tell him to stop the war. i believe there is one person on this planet who can stop the war with one phone call, and that's probably donald trump, but so far he's not doing that. and in fact, as netanyahu pointed out, he might even, you know, join the. >> but what incentive would the iranians even have? let's say there's a ceasefire and let's say the talks do resume. what incentive? >> well, there's no. incentive for them. there's much less of an incentive for them to give up their enrichment program, which is the demand that the us made. it wasn't actually the original demand that witkoff steve witkoff, trump's negotiator, made. he initially was willing to countenance a small enrichment program. and then israel and the hawks in the us

administration and the hawks in congress kind of started making this big demand. it has to be zero enrichment. you have to dismantle the whole program, which iran is not going to do. that's never going to happen. so the question was, what kind of compromise could be worked out to ensure that iran doesn't build a bomb? and the only compromise is you incentivize them to not build bombs. so far, their incentive has been had been to not build a bomb. that's why they signed the jcpoa. that's why that was successful. and even trump's in his first term, his own advisors told him iran is complying with with the agreement and there was no incentive to build a bomb. then the incentive to build a bomb gets bigger and bigger and bigger every day that goes by the war makes it even more likely to give up enrichment. i mean, if there is a deal, if there's not regime change, if the regime doesn't collapse, and then there is, you know, a possibility and there's a ceasefire and this possibility that iran talks to trump, the trump administration, it's going to be much more difficult to get

to a deal at that point, because iran's going to be much tougher. >> much thank you so much for joining us this evening. for better or for worse, i'm sure your expertise will be in much demand for the next few weeks or months or years. but coming up next, pennsylvania state representative malcolm kenyatta is keeps making history. he might have done it again as the first person elected as the dnc vice chair twice, not once, but twice in one year. he is joining twice in one year. he is joining us next. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... ...being me. keep being you... ...and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people—whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable

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looks like we've told people liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need ... for the last time. huh. shallow. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty ♪ couldn't escape. then i started taking lipo flavonoid with 60 years of clinical experience. it's the number one doctor recommended brand for ear ringing. and now i'm finally free. >> take back. >> control with lipo flavonoid. >> pennsylvania state representative malcolm. >> i'm richard lui for a special live edition of msnbc reports. and happening right now, some breaking. news to share with you. officials set to give us an update on the breaking. >> news coming. >> out of minnesota. the suspect there, vance boelter, has been captured after two days on the run, will be waiting and

watching these very microphones. we expect this press conference to start very soon. as has been said, the governor will be coming to give us the very latest again in the information that has just come in to us here at msnbc, and that is that the suspect. >> has been caught. we do not. >> know the location, nor do. >> we know the timing. >> we expect to get that information during this press. >> briefing. >> which is about to start very soon. i want to go to jim cavanaugh, former atf special agent in charge. jim cavanaugh joins us right now. and, jim, there's a lot to go over here. >> first off. >> what have you heard? we're hearing from the associated press through two sources that they were able to gather that the suspect now is. in custody. and i guess the first question to ask is, what have you heard about that, if. >> anything, from your sources? >> well, we've just heard through some of the police releases that they have captured him in that area where the car was found. richard, down in

sibley county, minnesota. apparently he wasn't very far from that vehicle, that abandoned vehicle in the woods. and the vehicle is not registered to him, but registered to somebody he knows. so we're not quite sure how he acquired that. but his hat was found there at the vehicle, and they've recovered some other evidentiary items. but apparently he was on foot, you know, in a in a wooded area or a brushy area. didn't get very far from the car at all. what does the pace and. >> the timing. >> tell you about how. >> they conducted. >> this search? well, i think they did, you know, textbook police search. i mean, they got they amassed the forces, the swat teams, state troopers, deputies. and the advantage came to them when that car was found abandoned. and then nightfall came. and when the night falls, the advantage goes to law enforcement because they have the flier, the forward looking infrared radar on their fixed wing and helicopters that they

can put up. and of course, they can make a cordon around the area, use their patrol dogs and other, you know, resources. so they use that night vision and they can spot from the air if there's anybody they can spot in the woods or in the brush, they can quickly get to them. so we might have we might learn from the governor that some of those tools were used. certainly canine swat aircraft, drones, those kind of things. once he's on foot at night in the woods, he, you know, he's not going to get away. and this is a guy, richard, that had a plan to kill and intention for mass murder, but no plan for escape. what is the distance tell you in terms of where. >> the. >> crime happened? >> and then again, this location of the car. and we think that allegedly he was caught close by to. >> this car. >> what does that say to you? i think he was just flailing around. it's going to turn out this guy is a fanatic. you know,

he has a list of 70 politicians and leaders. the attorney general of minnesota, the united states, senators from minnesota. you know, he's his list is so long, full of people he wants to harm. he goes out on his, you know, sort of manic murder spree. he shoots the two, the lawmaker and, you know, his spouse doesn't kill him. then he goes to the second house an hour and a half later, not too far apart, and he murders the former speaker and her husband. and then he gets in a shootout with the police in brooklyn park, minnesota. so, you know, he's he's been involved in all this gunplay and murder in just a matter of hours, three separate incidents where he's the shooter on two, and then he's in a gun battle with the police, and he certainly didn't expect to be in a gun battle with the police. that wasn't in his planning. he had all the fliers from the know

kings protest in his vehicle. so that could be a little insight into his intent. 330 in the morning, when he did the final act of murder, the police busted it up. you know, maybe after that he was going to go attack that parade. so we don't really know, but we know he had the fliers and we know he was intent on killing. so that's certainly within the bounds of possibility. and the investigators will be looking at it and asking him that question. you know, when they interrogate him, what was he intending to shoot up that that that protest? >> if you're just joining us. >> right here on msnbc, we're following. >> some breaking news. >> into us here at msnbc. >> and that is that the suspect was. caught in the murders in minnesota of the lawmaker and her husband. >> we are waiting for a briefing. >> a press briefing where we expect the governor of minnesota to come to the microphone when that does happen, will go straight to it. we have some pictures coming. out of. >> minnesota. and we hope.

>> to get more details on exactly. >> when and how this all happened. >> jim cavanaugh is still with us. >> on this. and, jim. one of the questions. >> might be, okay, let's say the suspect, it is the one that they had targeted. it is this gentleman that we've been talking about for the last 48 hours. what are the first questions. >> that they're digging into? i imagine they're concerned about. >> those who may have aided. >> him in his. >> effort before. >> and after. >> well, those are going to be important questions. first, they're going to want to, you know, try to see if he has any weapons on him near him. did he secrete anything? is he, you know, planning any devices. is he tried to harm anyone else? that's what the detectives want to ask him initially. and the agents? they want to ask him. is there anything else we should know about? you know, did you plant any devices? have you left any traps to hurt anybody? and, you know, sometimes these guys

are spent. i mean, this guy's been running around minnesota after this, you know, manic murder spree here for, you know, a long time. he's tired. he's probably hungry. he's probably exhausted. and he may give them some straight answers. i mean, fanatics often don't want to hide their motive, and they don't want to hide, you know, behind the law, you know, which is their right, but they may not care about that. they want the world to know the reason they did the act, because it's a political thing. so they they think it's righteous. it's horrible. of course. it's just horrible. there's no possible justification for any of it at all. there's no possible reason that it could be justified in any good thinking person's mind, but in his mind, he will have justified it. you know, for whatever fanatical beliefs he has. right? and somehow and that and that's also the same impetus inside his mind for him to talk

and tell the investigators why he did it. he, you know, maybe some some of these guys are actually proud of these vulgar acts and they'll boast about them all. i did it, and if you release me, i'd do it again. well, you can get a lot of information like that. so that's the first thing. and then they're going to want to, you know, secure any other evidence on his person and in the vehicle that will connect him to the murder scenes. you know, the theory of transfer. you always pick up something from the scene and you take and leave something behind. you know what i'm talking about. bullet casings here. blood spatter. i mean, he he is shooting these lawmakers and their spouses right there next to them. this is not a long distance murder. he he's right at their front door. they're answering the front door, and he's there as a policeman. he's shooting them right there so he could have blood on his clothing somewhere. he could have that bulletproof vest. and they don't want all that for dna and for evidence, because he's alive.

and there's going to be a prosecution for first degree murder in minnesota. there could be federal charges, but minnesota probably has the best the best hammer on them for the double homicide and the double attempted murder. jim, standby. let's get to nbc's. maggie vespa. >> maggie. with this breaking news coming. >> in this. >> hour. >> what do. >> we know? >> nbc's maggie vespa, i believe. >> can join us. and, maggie, if you. >> can hear me. >> with the breaking news. >> coming out of minnesota, that okay. rob damico. >> joining us now, we'll get back. >> to maggie when. >> we can rejoin. >> with her. >> rob damico. >> former fbi supervisor. >> i was talking with jim about the. pace at. >> which they were. able to apprehend the suspect. >> what do you know about this? >> yeah, when? when they got the vehicle and the hat, they knew they were probably pretty close, but they didn't want to rush in. they wanted to make sure they got the right resources there so

that they did it safely. but get the dogs, the tactical teams. and then once he's in the woods, you put it like a penetration limit in the end, and you just start going in and breaking brush and then hopefully you can flush them out. so i think they knew they were pretty close. and like i said, when you come across something like that, they were looking for that lead the vehicle. and the hat itself was pretty, pretty good giveaway. and unless he had a vehicle sitting there and somehow transferred vehicles or something, he was close. so i think they were pretty confident. >> that if it's close to that location. why that. >> location i imagine you would be looking into? is it close. >> to certain resources? >> potentially? >> the question might be whether those. >> that were. >> close by could potentially have. >> helped him along the way. >> what do you. make of. >> the potential location that. >> the location of. >> that car and. >> that he could. >> have been close to that when they apprehended him? >> from what i was reading, it

was he had he was running up by minneapolis, and then he had a house with his wife down in this area. and that's where the car was from, what i read. so he may have been trying to do something, and it just wasn't working out the way he thought. and he didn't have much to, to, to do. it could have been as simple as the car ran out of gas or he was going on somewhere, but i think he was trying to probably do something else. and then that that came afoul of his plans, and he didn't have much else to do. when you put that much pressure on, it really puts pressure on them mentally, physically and thinking ability wise. and that's why fugitive hunts, that's what they look to do, is, is keep the pressure on so that that person trying to get away has no time to rest, has no time to sleep, doesn't even have much time to eat, because again, that's when they start making mistakes. >> what are the most important questions right now that they need. >> to determine and get from

this suspect? >> once he's in custody, then then the priority of the safety of everyone drops down dramatically. so now you want to do everything so that you, you know, you preserve it for the court of law. so any of the things that they're doing on emergency search warrants and such, they'll now take a step back. they'll be able to take their time, swear out, maybe a different warrant that doesn't have the same things. but now they're going to be looking for the next thing is, did he get help? how did he get from the area of the second shooting to where he was now to see if he got help? now, he may have gotten help with with the person doing it unbeknownst to them in the beginning, say after the second shooting, he called someone says, i have an emergency breakdown. you got to come get me right away. and they come and pick him up. and that's how he got to his second vehicle. that person may not have known when they initially

got him, but then after it made the news, i think you're going to take away the ability to say, i didn't know anything, and then it's going to be contributing to the fugitive crime. >> there are archetypes. >> there are potential models that you, at. >> the fbi know better than. >> all. >> what might. >> be the questions or the archetypes that they are trying to either confirm. >> or confirm, if. >> you will, to determine. what was it that brought him to this point. >> well, before they actually probably go in and talk to him, and it's going to be, as jim said, minnesota, you know, is going to have the lead on this for the murders. they're going to go in and they're going to see if he had any postings on on social media. they're going to study that manifesto or whatever they found in that document that had the 60 or 70 names of the other potential victims. they're going to go in and study that so they can sit down and talk to them. and the best way to, to,

to, you know, get a guy like this to talk is show empathy. it doesn't mean you agree with them, but you show empathy for his feelings. you listen to him. you let him be, you know, understand that you're you know, you're there to hear his story and let him say it. now, if he gets a lawyer, the lawyer's going to tell him not to talk to anyone. so it's really key in that beginning. if you can get in there and get him to agree to talk to you without a lawyer, i mean, that's what you always want. as soon as they get a lawyer, lawyer is going to tell him not to talk. so hopefully maybe they can talk to him and hear his story. that's what you always want to say. hey, look, there's i know there's something behind this. tell me what you know, what got you to this point in life where you thought you could do this? you're, you know, a loving father, a husband. we know you cared about people. how did you get here? and let him just tell this story. >> as has. >> been said here, rob, it appears that he wasn't necessarily. >> trying to hide it, that. >> he was.

>> leaving a. >> trail of. >> information as he. >> went along. >> so as they are asking if he would. >> like to give. >> a statement. >> if he says no. >> and he would like representation. >> but along the way you were talking about tone. >> and if. >> he does take on and this is what jim was alluding. >> to earlier. >> if he takes on what you were also mentioning. this approach, where i am somewhat. >> or directly. proud of. >> what i was able. >> to accomplish, then. >> the tone. >> that investigators will. take will be. >> somewhat, if you will. encouraging of this very idea that yes. >> please share with us. >> what you might find to be. >> boastful accomplishments. >> you know, when you're a detective or you know, when we're talking to even terrorists and when like the fbi, the, you know, those shows, criminal minds and all that, you sit down with some horrible people. but the ultimate goal is to get them to confess to what they did and

why they did it. and whatever whatever method gets you there is what you want. so, you know, i've talked to some of the profilers that have talked to serial killers that have done the same thing, you know, very understanding. and, and the ultimate goal is to get them to talk to you, even if it's if it's after confession, you're getting them to talk to you about why they do things so that you can put it into police analysis and things you want to get them to talk. so you sit down and you give that empathy and you tell them like, hey, i understand. i can see why you did that. you're you're a good man. and, you know, how did you get to this point and just keep letting him go? because the ultimate goal is for him to tell you that he did it, why he did it, if he had any accomplices, accomplices? that's ultimate goal of an interrogation. and you don't have to, you know, you don't have to not lie to him. you can you can encourage him that you were you understand him

and you may not. but the that but the good detectives come out like that and they get their confession. >> if he still has his phone. if they. >> are tracking his. >> phone, if they pick up his phone and they're they're checking through his call history, that might reveal a. >> lot in terms of how this all came together in the beginning. and they're after. and we were talking earlier about who might have had what conversation with him along the way. >> it could be family, it. >> could be friends. it could be none of those, none of those. >> at all. >> if the phone is a treasure trove of information, people don't understand how much is in there, how much you can get from it. if you think you delete things off of phones and laptops, you really don't. and now the big thing is encrypted apps. actually with work with the software company that allows you to see and sometimes many years of encrypted app traffic, even if you delete some of them. so if they get the phone, they have to break it. if he's not

going to give them the code to get in, they'll get the search warrant. fbi may not be at the local level. they may have to ship that back to quantico, where our folks can really even get into a locked iphone because you want to get those encrypted apps. that's what most people communicate on nowadays. not a lot of people do texts. they may do phone calls that will give them, you know, audit trails of who may assist them, especially with the date time stamp of when those calls took place. if he had texts. those are easy to get even without the phone. but encrypted apps is probably what most people do. you know telegram, signal, whatsapp. that's just the method of communication. and if you don't have one end of the device, you can't see it because it's stored encrypted. so they have to get in the phone with his permission or without. they can still get into it. >> if you're just joining us at the quarter. >> hour on the lower left. >> hand side of your screen, we just got an announcement that. >> the governor is expected. >> to speak and give us the.

very latest on the information that they're aware of on this case of the suspect, as we've been reporting, according to multiple sources. that has been caught out of minnesota, we'll get. >> the location. >> and the timing. and again, it looks like one of the communications team, they're giving out information. it was hard to see with the brightness. it could have been. >> a white balance check. >> but they are announcing who will be speaking shortly. we have. >> our cameras peeled there. >> in blaine, minnesota, to that. >> very press. >> briefing, which we expect to happen shortly. it's supposed. >> to start. >> at the bottom of the hour as things go, and those of you who have watched many of these know that sometimes things get behind just a little bit. given the fact that this is a breaking news story. >> that the suspect has. >> been apprehended there in the murders in minnesota, one of a lawmaker there in minnesota, and will be listening in to that. and once that does happen, we'll

go straight to it so we can get the very latest for you. rob, you were talking about the importance of the phone and the details that can come out of that. the likelihood of. >> the suspect. >> willingly giving a. statement at this moment. is it that you would say, would you like to give a statement first? and if that statement then is the answer is a yes and the statement is given, then you're allowed to give a series of questions. >> yes. once he's in custody obviously is. so the two things for the miranda rights, you know, he's in custody. so you're going to have to read him his miranda rights. but you know, a guy like this, i'm not going to just do it like i'm in the car. i'm going to build a little rapport as i drive with them, not asking questions right away. i'm going to build some rapport with them. you know, after i read him, his miranda rights. >> rob, the governor is now at the podium. let's listen in. governor tim walz about. >> to give.

>> us the very latest on this investigation. let's listen in. >> and. >> good evening. >> after a two day manhunt, two sleepless. >> nights, law enforcement have apprehended vance boelter. that's 48 hours that law enforcement involved in a complex and dangerous manhunt spent father's day away from their families. >> to deliver. >> justice for melissa and mark hortman and their children, who spent this father's. >> day alone. >> to the law enforcement who stand here and the hundreds who were involved in this, the state of minnesota owes you a deep debt of gratitude. thank you. you ran towards the danger, and you served the state of minnesota. this is a great

example of coordination and collaboration. multiple agencies federal, state and local, coordinating together in a way to protect the public and close this hunt around. multiple agencies were there as fbi laid hands on it, and minnesota state patrol put the handcuffs on. one man's unthinkable actions have altered the state of minnesota. melissa hortman was the core of who our values were. she had a hand in so many things that happened. the building that. >> we. >> stand in, she helped usher through so that we could respond from the state emergency operations center with the professionalism and giving the tools necessary to law enforcement to do their job. to melissa and mark's family. cannot fathom your pain and the grief that you're going through. we'll take solace in the memory and the work that melissa did, and you can rest assured that we

will put every ounce of effort that the state of minnesota has to make sure that justice is served, and the individual responsible for this serves the time for the unspeakable act. state grieves with you. the latest news is senator hoffman came out of his final surgery and is moving towards that, towards recovery of that is healing. and i think when the story comes out and i'd like to say on behalf of the state of minnesota, the heroic actions by the hoffman family and their daughter, hope saved countless lives. and we are grateful. bureau of criminal apprehension will continue to investigate. we will keep you informed. we'll spare no expense and no work to make. >> sure that that happens. >> a moment in this country where we watch violence erupt, this cannot be the norm. >> it cannot. >> be the way that we deal with our political differences. now is the time for us to recommit

to the core values of this country. and each and every one of us can do it. talk to a neighbor rather than arguing. debate an issue. shake hands. find common ground. this is who melissa hortman was in the first negotiating session that i had a chance to work with her. she got all the partners in the room and she provided each and every one of us a copy of a book called getting to yes. and the whole premise was debating with a sense of goodwill, a sense of trying to come to compromises that serve everyone. and because of her, we did that. because of her. we did that year after year after year. that's the embodiment of how things are supposed to work. it's not about hatred. it's not about mean tweets. it's not about demeaning someone. it's leading with grace and compassion and vision and compromise and decency. that was taken from us in minnesota with

the murder of speaker hortman. so for each and every one of us to truly honor and we will we will continue to honor that spirit, but we will need to do it in just more than actions in a memorial, conducting ourselves in the spirit that melissa hortman did her work is what the country needs to heal. i will once again say the deep debt of gratitude. these professionals standing behind us, and countless others. this was, you'll hear from them, incredibly complex. and to take this suspect in with no loss of life or injuries to civilian population, and to bring him in alive so he can serve justice, which he will do in minnesota, is an incredible thing that we are grateful for. with that, i'm going to turn it over to the professionals, starting with commissioner of public safety for the state of minnesota, bob jacobson. thank you.

>> good evening. >> it's good to see you all here tonight. thank you for coming in. my name is bob jacobson. i'm the commissioner of public safety. and again, it's my honor to serve in that position. first of all, i want to thank all the law enforcement agencies that have been working tirelessly over the past two years since the shooting at senator hoffman's home, the coordination between state, local and federal law enforcement partners is the reason we are here tonight. and the suspect is in custody. boulter exploited the trust. our uniforms are meant to represent. that betrayal is deeply disturbing to those of us who wear the badge with honor and responsibility. we want to thank community members across the state for their support, for their tips and their information. and i want to thank

governor walz for his continued support through this very difficult time. with that, i will pass this off to superintendent drew evans of the bca. thank you. >> well, good evening, everyone. my name is drew evans. i'm superintendent of the minnesota bureau of criminal apprehension. as is noted, and was previously described, and vance boulter was taken into custody in sibley county. we were with you earlier today when we provided information about the manhunt and the myriad of law enforcement that have come together, working in partnership so that this evil cannot be continued. the first step in a case like this is that we take him into custody, and then the work will continue and begin to make sure that we have all the evidence we need to ensure that he is held accountable for his crimes. please bear with me, but i think it's important because it has been noted by the governor. just to give you some background on the teams that

were down there, and i may even be missing some in terms of this, because there were law enforcement partners, not just from the twin cities, but across the state of minnesota that came together from the brooklyn park police department, the tri-cities swat team, eagan police department, burnsville police department, our south metro swat team, the fbi, atf, united states marshal service, state patrol, washington county sheriff's office, ramsey county sheriff's office, the richfield police department, saint paul police department, bloomington police department, sibley county. we had riverview medics, green isle fire department and lifelink in the area in addition to prior lake, crow river, swat, and the hennepin county sheriff's office. and again, i may have been missing and i apologize to my partners for that, that we do that i share all of that for you, because that's the commitment. when this sort of evil is in one of our communities, that law enforcement comes together to put all of their resources together, to make sure that that

person is taken into custody. that is so that people across the state of minnesota and legislators that were targeted in these attacks, and that may have been listed, can breathe a sigh of relief as quickly as possible. as we came together, an incredibly complex set of circumstances in that he was arrested, as you saw earlier this evening in the area of 35, 600 block 35, 600 block of 200 street, green isle. what happened in that is, as we noted, there was a manhunt going all throughout the day in that area that we've discussed previously, and there was information provided that he was seen in the area. when that information was provided to the investigators that were conducting the ground search, they converged on the area with a number of swat teams, with the assistance of the airwing from minnesota state patrol, and will provide a few more details about the end of coming into custody in a little bit. but he was taken into custody at that time.

he is in custody. and a reminder for anybody that was not when he was previously said that taken into custody under a state criminal warrant, that information will be made public if it is not already detailing the complaint that he is charged in the cases at this time with the murders of speaker hortman and her husband, mark hortman. also with the shootings in john hoffman and yvette hoffman for those crimes and we'll be moving forward. we are also in close contact with our federal partners, both the fbi, united states attorney's office, who are examining whether or not additional charges should be brought at the federal level related to this at this time, there's a lot of investigation that continues, and i'm going to turn it over to chief bruley to provide some comments on this and the work. i just want to tell, certainly for the communities of champlin, city of brooklyn park, you both have incredibly professional police departments that work day in, day out and tirelessly in this

situation to bring justice and work towards that, not only for the families and the loved ones and the community that are impacted, but for the entire state of minnesota. and our teams are incredibly proud to work alongside them in all the law enforcement partners. and so with that, i will turn it over to chief burley for some comments on this, and the work will continue in partnership with them and others moving forward. chief. good evening. >> i'm police chief mark rowley. brooklyn park police department. >> has a few comments. one, i'm very proud to tell you that we took the suspect into custody. who's responsible for this? that was. >> within 43. >> hours. >> of the incident. >> there's no. >> question that. >> this is the largest. >> manhunt in the state's history. just down at the scene where he's taken to custody, there was 20 different swat teams over a extremely large area, hunting this individual down to take him into custody. i believe that the state of minnesota, and certainly the city of brooklyn. >> park, should be. >> extremely proud of. the police officers within the city.

>> of brooklyn park. but the partnerships. >> that we had are unprecedented between the federal agents, the county, the locals and others around. it is absolutely an incredible task. what went on? >> essentially. >> the brooklyn park. police department. >> was. >> turned over into an operation center. >> and that's. >> all that hundreds of detectives worked on tirelessly for 43 hours. >> so while. >> this is come to some conclusion where we've made an arrest, there is a ton of work that needs to be done. so i encourage community members if there's evidence, information or other things, please continue to feed that information to brooklyn park police department so that we can fully investigate this and present a complete case to both the federal jurisdiction and the hennepin county attorney's office. with that, i'll turn. >> it. >> over to the state patrol. >> good evening everyone. my name is jeremy geiger. i'm the lieutenant colonel with the. >> minnesota. >> state patrol. the assistant. >> chief. >> the minnesota state patrol, along with countless other

partners, were responsible for this arrest. the collaborative effort. i cannot stress enough how outstanding that was. >> helped. >> ensure the suspect's arrest did not result in the injury of any law enforcement that was down there in the area. we had special response teams. >> on the scene. >> near 200 streets in sibley county. several partner law enforcement swat teams positioned to form a perimeter at that point in time. the state patrol also provided the air support that was talked about earlier today. the suspect crawled to law enforcement teams and was placed under arrest. at that point in time, there was no use of force by any member of law enforcement that was out there, and the suspect was taken into custody without any use of force. thank you. with that, we'll open. >> it up for a few questions. reminder. >> please introduce. >> yourself. >> your organization. >> if you have a question. >> for one of the specific. >> individuals. >> please feel free to point that out as well. >> thank you. so nbc news. can

i. >> ask anyone up there to speak to it? >> did the. >> suspect make any mistakes? >> if you. >> feel. >> like led. to his mental. >> health. >> you know the question is were there any key mistakes? we certainly at this point there's a lot of information we can't share right now in this. what i will tell you is there is some incredibly dedicated law enforcement personnel, criminal intelligence analysts that were out working day in and day out working together. and what i will tell you is that that the public certainly is always of assistance to us in law enforcement and incredibly diligent people in the area that provided us the assistance that we needed to get our teams that were already down there, that last piece over. but they were certainly in the area and working diligently together on that. >> time. >> guys. >> do you. >> have any. >> indication. >> that anyone. >> helped him? >> the question is, is any indication anybody helped him? we continue to look into that.