>> disproportionately red states will get hurt by the medicaid cuts in both these versions. >> yes. yes, absolutely. >> congressman jasmine crockett, who is from the state of texas, thank you so much for your time tonight. >> absolutely. >> that is all in on this tuesday night. the briefing with jen psaki starts right now. good evening jen. >> hey chris. i have to say, with all the darkness these days with minnesota. and the bill, you just talked about. >> the crappy. >> senate version. >> the national. >> guard hearing eric lander during. >> your conversation say. >> that after being. >> detained for 3.5. >> hours, he was going to go back. he wants to go. >> back and help escort more immigrants. it kind of tells us there are some people with spines out there. it was pretty encouraging to hear. yeah, i totally agree. and i think one of the things that has been really encouraging is not just the no protests and not just democratic lawmakers, but i think you and i have both seen these scenes where someone's getting grabbed by some random person who hasn't committed a crime, who isn't a threat, and just neighbors, like, not

politically active people, neighbors coming out to be like, hey, what are you doing? asking questions. it's that that part of it is pretty encouraging. >> it is people. >> people are starting to learn how to respond. i'm going to talk to governor. >> hochul in a. >> moment about that and. >> her role. i know. >> you just. >> talked about that, too. >> she's sprung. >> she got sprung him. >> yeah. and she she had. >> some words. i don't know if. >> we can play them. we may. >> still play them on tv. but she had some some. >> yeah. we're going to play them. >> what the hell. why not? anyway chris. thank you. it was. >> a great interview. >> have a good night. appreciate it. >> okay. >> so today, ice agents manhandled, handcuffed and detained the third. >> highest ranking elected official in america's. >> largest city. >> they did. >> it while masks were. >> going to show you the video. so you see the whole video. >> and they. >> did it. >> while refusing. >> to show the person they were arresting. any justification at all? he asked repeatedly, as you will. >> see, in the form of a. >> warrant or. anything else. brad lander, who i was just discussing with chris, is the. comptroller of new york city. he's also a democratic

candidate. >> for mayor. >> and today. >> he. spent 3.5 hours. >> in ice. custody thanks to. the heavy handed tactics of trump's department of homeland security. new york governor kathy hochul, who had a few choice words, as i just said with. chris to say about all of this. after rushing. >> down to. >> the courthouse today. >> springing him from. >> there after 3.5 hours. she's going to join me here live to talk. >> about that in just. a few minutes. >> but first, i want to show you exactly what took place today. as you may know, the trump administration has been arresting immigrants when they show up at federal courthouses for their own immigration hearings. that's become a tactic of theirs. it's a completely dirty, fearmongering tactic they use to try to run up their deportation numbers. that's why they do it. it's also been widely denounced, not just because it's sturdy, because it discourages immigrants from following the law and showing up for their own hearings, which is exactly what people are. >> doing who are. >> showing up to the courthouse. one of the ways that democratic officials have tried to push back on this tactic is by

showing up at courthouses themselves to act as escorts for those immigrants who are, again, just trying to follow the law. new york city comptroller brad. >> lander has been volunteering as an immigrant. >> escort for the past three weeks. that was what he was doing today just before he was arrested, escorting an immigrant who had shown up for his hearing. and this is what happened next. >> down! move down. alright. what's your name? what's your name? what's your name? take your. >> hand off. you have a judicial. >> i'm giving you a warning. show me your face. did you get a. >> judicial warrant. >> giving you a lawyer? >> you have a judicial warrant. >> push. >> do you have a. >> judicial warrant, please?

>> can i see your judicial warrant? you have the warrant. you don't have a warrant for him. >> i will let go when you show me the. judicial warrant. >> where is it, sir? in my hand. here, sir. don't worry. >> you don't. have it. you don't have the. >> authority to arrest us. >> citizens, sir. >> you don't. >> have the authority to arrest us citizens. say that you don't have. >> i'm not obstructing. i'm standing right here in. >> the hallway. >> i asked to. >> see the judicial. warrant by. asking for a. >> judicial warrant. >> you don't. >> have the authority to. >> arrest us. >> citizens. >> asking for a. >> judicial one. >> i'm sorry. >> to be clear, he was holding. >> on to the immigrant. >> he was escorting. >> that was. >> part of what. >> he was. >> doing there. >> and according to a spokesperson for the. department

of homeland security, lander was arrested for assaulting law enforcement and impeding a federal officer. yes. that is. you heard that, right? i mean, you just saw the video. that's why we played it. it's important to see the whole thing. maybe you've already seen it today. and the department of homeland security is trying to say it was lander who was doing the assaulting. about four hours later, he was released a little under four hours from detention without facing charges. >> new york. >> city. >> comptroller brad lander and i'm happy to report i am just fine. i'm going to sleep in my bed tonight, safe with my family. i'm grateful to hear that the charges are not being brought, but if they are, i've got a lawyer. i don't have to worry about my due process rights at. >> that elevator. >> i was separated from someone named. >> edgardo. >> who i had just met a couple of minutes earlier. edgardo is in ice detention and he's not going to sleep in his bed tonight. so far as i know, he has no lawyer. he has been stripped of his due process

rights. i will be fine, but edgardo is not going to be fine. and the rule of law is not fine. and our constitutional democracy is not fine. >> an elected. >> official candidate for. >> mayor being. forcibly detained while exercising his right to escort an immigrant, edgardo. in a. >> courthouse. >> and for asking a very legitimate question of federal law enforcement that anyone should be asking. the thing is, is this is not at all an isolated incident. i mean, that scene feels. >> familiar. >> and it probably. >> does feel familiar. >> it's probably because it's remarkably similar to what happened to senator alex padilla, a dhs press conference just last week when senator padilla attempted to ask secretary kristi noem a simple question about federal troops in his state. he was forcibly removed from the room, forced to the ground, handcuffed and briefly. detained by law enforcement. well, today, at eerily nearly this exact same time that brad lander was being arrested in new york, senator

padilla delivered his first speech on the senate floor since his own detention. here's part of what he said. >> you've seen the video. i was pushed and pulled, struggled to maintain my balance. i was forced to the ground. first on my knees. and then flat on my chest. and as i was handcuffed and marched down a hallway, repeatedly asking, why am i being detained? not once did they tell me why. i pray you never have a moment like this. but i will tell you in that

moment, a lot of questions came to my mind. and what will a city already on edge from being militarized think when they see their united states senator being handcuffed just for trying to ask a question? and what will my wife think? what will our boys think? >> i mean, these confrontations are happening more and more frequently, and they fit an incredibly disturbing pattern. we saw it in newark, new jersey, with the arrest of newark mayor ras baraka and the eventual charges brought against congresswoman lamonica mciver. we saw it with two members of congress, jaime gomez and norma torres, who were denied entry to an ice facility in california. even though every member of congress is allowed to do that by law. they don't even have to give notice. congressman gomez and congresswoman torres say ice

deployed a chemical irritant to keep them out. and we've seen it with other civic leaders, too, like union president david huerta, who was forcefully arrested by ice and charged with impeding federal officers. and we've even seen this administration arrest a member of the judiciary, handcuffing a wisconsin judge who they allege tried to help an immigrant evade arrest while leaving her courtroom. the trump administration is getting more aggressive about arresting or detaining these public officials. they are trying to normalize it. but with each new incident, people are learning how to stand up and fight back. this was the scene outside the federal building in new york, just moments after brad lander was arrested. people showing up in droves to protest his arrest, holding up hastily made cardboard signs like the one you see there that said things like release lander. now, i mentioned that brad lander is running for mayor of new york right now, new york city right now. and he's facing, of course, a lot of competition in the democratic primary, which will be held just one week from today. but within

minutes of his arrest, no less than four of his democratic primary opponents rushed down to the federal building to stand with him, not just to show support, but they also talked about his leadership to. let's be. >> very clear, we are not. >> here as candidates. we're here as new yorkers. we're here to do what's right. >> we are standing. >> here in unity. >> all of us. >> see what is going on. >> he didn't just. >> talk the talk today. he walked the walk. and i want to praise him for that. >> he showed us. >> what leadership. >> can look like. >> and for that. >> he was arrested. >> and we have to be. >> clear about this. this is not about an election. this is about ensuring that we protect the city and the country that we love. >> again, all of those democrats you just saw are running against brad lander and each other. all they're all running for this mayoral primary that is taking place next week. early voting is happening. but today, they stood shoulder to shoulder with each other, calling for his release.

new york governor kathy hochul was also among the leaders who rushed down to lower manhattan to protest lander's arrest and demand his release. and after lander was released, which he just gave her credit for to the governor made this pledge to immigrant families. >> the state of new york. >> is providing $50 million to cover legal services for people who are finding themselves in this situation. >> we'll continue to do what we can. >> to support the. >> communities and the. >> immigration coalitions and thank them for their work that they're doing at this time. it's hard to see these people to know their stories, to hug them, to know they've been separated from loved ones. i just want to say, we're a better country than this. >> new york governor kathy hochul is standing by and she hochul is standing by and she joins me here live in just 90s. dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪

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his release. we heard a little bit from him earlier. can you just walk us through what happened today, including your interaction with officers at the building? >> yes. and thank you for your coverage of this deeply. troubling story. it seems to be unfolding all across our country. jen, i literally was in part of brooklyn known as little haiti. i was walking the streets talking to. people who are so frightened, living in the shadows of once vibrant street was now almost a ghost town because people are terrified. and then while i'm out there trying to meet these people and let them know. where we see them, we're going to support them. then i get the word that one of our elected officials for the city of new york has been arrested. and i know brad lander. i went right down there and i wanted to see him. i went up to the ninth floor and they wouldn't let me come in, but i had a chance to talk to ice officers and the people in charge. and my head of homeland security came down and head of my counterintelligence and. >> all the professionals that. >> i work with. we all stood there and i said, i'm not

leaving until you let him out. i want him. released because what other charges? what are you possibly saying? we all saw the video, and after about an hour of me waiting and talking to a lot of people, they said they'd release him without charges. but brad lander has all the attorneys and attention on this he needs. i mean, he can take care of himself. i'm confident of that. but what i cannot get out of my mind are all the people that are so terrified right now. the ones who go into those courtrooms. following the law and the procedure told, show up this date for your court appearance. and then they're sitting ducks. while they're in the courtroom. they withdraw their legal status and they walk out and they're captured. this is beyond the pale, and we have to stand up and call it out for what it is and say, we are a better country than this. and the voices that we heard during the marches over the last weekend, the people who stood up

there, the elected officials who are doing their part, we have to stand up and say no more. and i will tell you this. as i said, under eight hours of questioning in congress just a few days ago, i will work with the trump administration to remove the people he said he was going after. i will help you get the criminals out of here, the ones who are violent. >> criminals. >> who are hurting other. >> people. >> the human traffickers, the people who are dealing in drugs, people with guns. i want them gone. i'll help you, but don't take care of the home health care aides, the 160 who. >> are going. >> to lose their jobs that i met today and talk to. they'll lose their jobs and they lose their status. you know what that means. there's 160. vulnerable new yorkers who are going to lose their caregivers, and the people who work in the restaurants and hospitality, let them get jobs, pay their taxes, be part of our communities. like my grandpa was a migrant farm worker. everybody comes and starts out in struggles. but you know what? >> over time. >> it works. it's the american dream. and that. dream is

dissipating. >> by. >> the moment here. and that's in this country. and we cannot let it go. >> no question about it. and i know and i just mentioned that you had announced today the state is dedicating $50 million for legal assistance for immigrants. and i want to ask you about that in one moment. i think one of the things that was so striking about today, many things was that, you know, brad lander was released without charges. you said earlier today that you're not to your knowledge, charges have been dropped and that he walks out of there a free man. but the u.s. attorney's office said that it is investigating his actions still, and would decide later whether to charge him with a crime. this is all on video, which we played the full video. are you confident there won't be charges? and i raise this because he's just escorting immigrants to the courthouses who are trying to abide by by their court hearings. >> it's all he's doing. and he did it without any fanfare over a number of times. just a lot of people are volunteering. these people are terrified. i mean, these are our neighbors. these are people who have lived among us for many, many years

sometimes. and people are just doing the right thing. they're being they're showing their humanity. and he showed up and just escorting someone in and speaking to him and just trying to let him know it's going to be okay, the best we can. and then you have them ripped apart and, and terrorized the way they were. and to go after elected officials, i mean, no, no, it's wrong, it's wrong. and again, we will help the trump administration. we have been doing this for years. get rid of the true criminals. but coming here to seek asylum, as they have for the last few years, or coming with temporary protected status, like 300,000 venezuelans did and people from haiti, they had legal status when they came. so when you take it away once they're here, it's just like a cruel joke on them. so they're not the criminals. let's find them a legal pathway. let's give them work authorization. i know the trump administration is capable of doing this. they can do this. and there'll be a lot of employers, including the people in my state, new york. i

have 400,000 open jobs as we speak. they're not taking someone's job to be doing an important service to us. let's have a conversation. let's ask congress why you won't do something as simple as passing common sense, bipartisan legislation to reform our immigration laws, find legal pathways. yes, we have to secure our borders. no one doubts that. but the people who are here and already contributing. come on. we're a nation of immigrants. that's why we're so great. >> you. i mentioned a couple times that you announced the $50 million for legal assistance, which is very powerful. and as brad lander mentioned, a lot of these people don't have legal representation. this tactic, though, which i call dirty earlier because i think it's dirty of these agents showing up at courthouses and kind of stalking people who don't have criminal records or not trying to are just trying to abide by what they're supposed to be doing. is there anything you can do as governor to stop those

tactics? or other governors can band together and do? >> no, they're not allowed in new york state courts, you know, and let's think about this. when we this was passed a few years ago, law enforcement supported this because people who've been victims of crimes or witnesses of crimes, if they think that if they go in to. be involved in the criminal justice system, to maybe to solve a crime, that they could be removed instantaneously. we want to make sure that we are working to protect our community. people are safer when people feel they can come forward. but apparently in federal courthouses up here in new york city and all across america, they are basically staking out people who walk in the front door to keep an appointment they are given. they're told by go before this judge on this date or check in. i mean, a heartbreaking story. just a couple of weeks ago, a mom takes her two boys, 19 and. 20 year old, down to make sure they're legally checking in as they're told to do. guess what? she walks out without them

because they took him away from her and she doesn't know where they are. we're all human beings. if we can't find some compassion in our hearts at this moment and do what's right. history will judge us very poorly. that's why we're urging the administration go after the really bad ones like you said you would. that's my plea. go after the bad ones. we'll help you. every state will help you. can we just leave these law abiding people alone? can we just do that? >> there are so many stories, like the ones you mentioned and the ones we saw play out today. governor kathy hochul, i know you've had a day, so thank you so much for being here with us, helping, helping explain. all of the video footage we've just showed, showed everybody watching. really appreciate you being here. >> all right. thank you jim. >> coming up, we are following some new back and forth between defense secretary pete hegseth and governor gavin newsom tonight. late today, we got what seemed like a dramatic announcement about thousands of

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through. >> tonight. secretary of defense pete hegseth made the dramatic announcement that he was activating another 2000 california national guard troops for deployment to los angeles. it turns out that is not actually the case. but secretary haig says the announcement is dramatic nonetheless. according to a statement from california governor gavin newsom's office, quote, this isn't a new deployment. it's the same group of soldiers who have been diverted from critical wildfire work and work at the border, now twiddling their thumbs for donald trump's political theater. tell us how you really feel. that's breaking down the truth there. newsom's office says that the announcement was just him announcing the second set of 2000 national guard troops that he had already activated last week. the total number of national guard members deployed to los angeles is still 4100. so why is re-announcing a chunk of that deployment and confusing everyone? maybe that's the point. here's how governor

newsom's office put it. this is clean up from the pentagon. the description of what they are and aren't going to be doing is meant to be consistent with their legal position, rather than the immigration enforcement support we've seen them doing in los angeles. and look, right now, the streets of los angeles are calm. just hours ago, la mayor karen bass lifted the curfew on downtown la. the thin veneer of justification trump had for federalizing the national guard is dwindling, to say the least. but trump still wants the national guard there, and he needs to get his legal ducks in a row to be able to keep them there. you see, in los angeles, there are already about 500 national guard troops who have been trained to accompany ice agents while they conduct immigration raids. and clearly, the plan is to grow that operation, obviously not just in california. trump has already said that his deployment of national guard troops in california is, quote, the first, perhaps of many, according to an operation plan described to nbc news by multiple sources a month

before any any national guard members were sent into los angeles. the department of homeland security had requested up to 21,000 national guard troops to help the agency with its immigration agenda. it was part of what immigration and customs enforcement was calling operation at large, a plan to ramp up arrests and detain a quota of 3000 immigrants a day. ice had already been pulling in agents from other branches of law enforcement, like the fbi and the dea, and even the irs by the thousands to help with those arrests. but to get that kind of numbers, to get those numbers they wanted, they needed the national guard, which is what makes a hearing that happened today in a federal appeals court in california so important, because last week, the state of california sued the trump administration for sending in the national guard against the governor's will. the merits of that case could take weeks or months to be settled. but while that case makes its way through the courts, california has asked for immediate relief asking for control of the california national guard to be given back

to the governor, which is standard in every state while their lawsuit makes its way through the courts. that's what they're asking now. today, a federal appeals court had a hearing on that specific question. and as the new york times puts it, the appeals court seems inclined to let trump control the national guard in la for now, letting trump keep control of the california national guard while this case works its way through the courts, could mean months of federal immigration agents having thousands upon thousands of national guard members supporting their immigration agenda. that could mean that it could set a precedent for trump to send in the national guard in more states all across the country, which, as he's told us, is kind of the point. joining me now is xavier becerra, former california attorney general, former secretary of health and human services and current candidate for california governor. secretary becerra, thank you so much for being with us tonight. i want to just start. i want to get into the merits of this case in just a second. but but i want to first ask you specifically about what the impact would be if this appeals court lets trump keep control of the national guard. while the merits of this case

make their way through the court. i mean, what would it mean for california and even the country in the meantime, as he's indicated, he may this may be a model he wants to expand. >> jen, first. >> thanks for having me. >> but two, what i think is really. >> perilous about. this is. >> that this. >> could license this court, could license a president utilizing our. military and the national. >> guard in ways. that really. >> intrude on a state's police power, the ability to do public. >> safety the way. >> we think it should. >> be done. >> and it's. >> done. under the. cover of trying to protect. >> against insurrection. >> and all the. >> rest, one way or. the other. >> the trump. >> administration wants to, as. >> you. just said. >> beef up its ice forces. >> so they. can do massive deportation. >> they can't do it with the size. >> of the current. >> dhs ice force. >> so they. >> have to try to supplement. the only way to do that is to essentially try to wink at the courts and say, they're going to

try to do something that's. >> according to the law. >> in the. >> use of the national guard, when in fact it really isn't. >> the ninth circuit court panel, i just read some of the analysis out there, but you're the former attorney general of california. i mean, they seemed skeptical of california's position that trump did not have the authority to federalize the state's national guard, or that's how a lot of analysts are reading it. is that how you read it? and does that stance, i guess, surprise you? i'm sure you disagree with it. but does it surprise you? >> yeah, i. >> read the. >> constitution, and the constitution. >> tells me. >> that the. >> federal government. cannot try. >> to go into. >> a state. >> and. >> essentially usurp. >> its. state powers. >> to take. on actions. how the trump administration. tries to. >> categorize this. >> and how the courts. >> try to. >> help. >> interpret this. >> is what. >> i think is. >> somewhat in question. >> look, i think the courts are. >> trying. >> to bend over. backwards to help the. >> the executive. in the white. >> house be. >> able to. >> do things.

>> but at some point, it's always clear that donald. >> trump goes overboard. >> that's what. >> i found when. >> i was attorney general. >> and that's why i. >> was. >> able to. >> sue him over 120. times in many cases, in in. >> cases that were very similar to what we see today. >> where they go way beyond. >> their authority. >> and they. >> try to couch. >> it differently. >> let me ask you, because i've been talking to you. you're putting your old hat on. you have many old hats on here. are there cases that you think sitting attorney general should be doing against trump that they're not now? are there tactics you learned from all of those times you sued him that you think should be employed more now? >> yeah. >> there are certainly more. >> cases that. >> can be. >> filed. >> some more. >> consequential than others. >> all of these. >> different executive orders that essentially. undo congressional mandated. >> action would. >> certainly be. >> subject to judicial review. i believe that the. >> trump administration will go

as far as the. >> courts will let them. and there are things that the states can do. i used to tell. >> my team when i was attorney general in. >> california. >> we want to be. >> ready to counterpunch. >> before the trump administration. >> tries to punch. >> so this way, we. don't let. >> them think we're going to let them get away with their actions. and in some cases, we. were able to file. a lawsuit against a trump action within. days of them. actually announcing it. and that was because we. essentially could telegraph where they were. >> going to go. >> predicting it sounds like a little, as we all did in government red teaming and preparing for what might be happening. secretary becerra, thank you so much for joining me. i really appreciate it. coming up, the self-proclaimed anti war president. he's self-proclaimed it many times. not just me saying it is starting to look a lot less antiwar. and what happens next is kind of anyone's guess. i've got some thoughts about it. i'm going to talk to someone very going to talk to someone very smart who also has some (♪♪) don't let congestion take over.

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beta prostate. >> for the past five days or so since israel launched attacks against iran, and iran responded in kind with their own attacks against israel. there has been this growing list of questions. i'm sure you have them too, and concerns about what is actually going on and what still might happen over the next few months, days or even hours. i mean, last week at the onset of the strikes, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu said explicitly that israel's objective was to take out iran's nuclear capabilities. however, since then, the israeli military seems to have widened its targets, striking iran's oil and gas refineries and killing much of the leadership and intelligence officers inside iran's revolutionary guard. netanyahu has notably not ruled out any actions that would bring about regime change in iran, and

that has set off alarm bells and raised the specter of the united states officially joining israel in this war. and fears about that prospect are not at all unfounded. i mean, just today, reuters reported that the us military has begun bolstering its forces in the middle east, including sending more fighter jets to the region. so now the bigger question is this what what exactly is trump's endgame in all of this? because it's going to impact all of us. because, remember, for years trump has branded himself as an anti war peacemaker. he's repeatedly claimed that he was always against the war in iraq right from the start, which is a total lie. but in 2016, trump stood out partly because he said stuff like this. >> obviously the war. >> in iraq was a big, fat mistake. the war in iraq, we spent. >> $2 trillion, thousands. >> of lives. >> we don't even. >> have it. >> we should. >> have never. >> been in iraq. we have destabilized. the middle east. >> now, trump continued, branding himself as a peacemaker in his first term, and ran on

that message in the 2024 election, where he reiterated time and again that he's not only against the ongoing wars taking place around the globe, but that he would use the power of the presidency to stop them. >> upon taking office. >> i will. >> also restore peace through strength. >> i will get that war. in ukraine settled so fast. >> i'll get that. war settled before i even become president. >> i want to see the middle. >> east. >> get back to peace and real peace. but a peace that's going to be a lasting peace. >> we will. >> measure our. >> success not only by. >> the battles. >> we win, but also. >> by the wars. >> that we end, and perhaps most. >> importantly, the. wars we. >> never get into. >> my proudest legacy will. >> be that of a peacemaker and unifier. >> that's what i want. >> to be. >> a peacemaker and. >> a. >> unifier. >> a peacemaker and a unifier. not exactly the words i would use at any point in time during his presidency, either one or his public life. but that aside,

fast forward to last week and within an hour of israel attacking iran last thursday, secretary of state marco rubio released this statement. we are not involved in strikes against iran, and our top priority is protecting american forces in the region. let me be clear iran should not target u.s. interests or personnel. the trump administration, loud and clear, declared that the u.s. had zero involvement in this dramatic escalation, but that arm's length distance only lasted a few hours until friday morning, when trump, the peacemaker, self-described again started to send a different message that israel's attacks against iran were excellent and that there was more to come. fast forward again to yesterday, after a bloody weekend of crossfire between israel and iran, trump abruptly left abruptly left the g7 summit in canada a day early, announcing in advance, posting an ominous message online that appeared to suggest more carnage was to come, simply stating iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. i

said it over and over again. everyone should immediately evacuate tehran. evacuate tehran. i mean, it's a city of 9 million people where tens of thousands of civilians are already struggling to evacuate. got it. and trump continued his escalations today, posting again online, this time using the pronoun we when describing israel's apparent success in targeting iran, he also threatened to kill iran's supreme leader. didn't take it off the table, i guess as a way to describe it. now, there's a very real issue at hand here that goes beyond rhetoric. israel ultimately wants the us to join this war because they want to attack what's considered the heart of iran's nuclear program, the fordo nuclear fuel enrichment plant, which is heavily fortified, built into a mountain. it's deep inside of a mountain, which means only 30,000 pounds american made bomb carried by an american b-2 stealth bomber can even attempt to reach fordow. and let's just say i have a lot of questions. i'm sure you have a lot of questions like, again, what is trump's endgame here? what is the goal you're going to think about the day after always? will

he threaten the united states into war by delivering those bombs? is the goal just to destroy fordow? is it to larger than that? i have just the person to ask. jeremy bash is the former chief of staff at both the defense department and both the defense department and the cia, and he joins me next. dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ miebo is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one cause of dry eye: too much tear evaporation. for relief that's ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ remove contact lenses before using miebo. wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. eye redness and blurred vision may occur. ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ ask your eye doctor about prescription miebo. if you have heart failure or chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life because there are places you'd like to be. ♪♪ serious side effects include increased ketones in blood

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>> we don't know yet whether the u.s. will get actively involved in israel's strikes on iran or more involved, but one major factor could be iran's nuclear facility buried deep inside a mountain. i was just mentioning this. and israel's ambassador to the u.s. has said that israel's operation in iran has to be completed with the elimination of fordo. but to do that, experts think israel might need to use a bomb that only the u.s. is capable of dropping. kelsey davenport from the arms control association told the washington post that israel can't destroy hardened sites like fordo without u.s. military assistance. these circumstances raise a lot of questions like, is this just about the one nuclear facility? i mean, that's a significant decision, too, but is it just about that? how did trump become so receptive to us involvement? that's a hard to answer one. most importantly, what comes next and what are all the factors here? i have just the person to help answer them. i've been waiting to talk to him

all day. joining me now is jeremy bash, former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense. i was just telling you, when i was reading everything over the last 24 hours, i just had this list of things that seemed contradictory, that were hard to understand. and i'm sure i'm not the only one. so let me just start with fordo, because fordo is 200km away from tehran. it is a huge nuclear facility site, one that iran has. i mean, israel has wanted to get rid of for a long time. trump also posted evacuate tehran when he was saying he was leaving the g-7. what do you make of all of these pieces? one can israel do? can they get rid of fordo without the us military? can they do it remotely without the us military? i think the answer is no. but you tell me if you agree with that. and two, what did you make of the tehran evacuation call? because that's a city of 9 million people. >> well, israel does not have a bomber force. it has an effective fighter force aircraft that can conduct aerial. >> targeting. >> but it can't actually carry that 30,000 mop, that massive

ordnance penetrator, which is the only weapon that can go deep into the mountain. and what iran. did and the obama administration, when it came in in 2009, saw the intelligence that israel had developed that showed that iran had buried deep under a mountain, a cascade hall to spin centrifuges, to develop weapons grade uranium. that's bomb fuel for a nuclear weapon deep in the mountain. if you're interested in civilian nuclear power, you don't have to build a bunker of a cascade hall. and by the way, the cascade hall was small, meaning it wasn't large enough to provide civilian nuclear power. it was so. >> small, but it had. >> just enough capacity to build a nuclear weapon. and so since that time, israel, the gulf countries, europeans and the united states have been very focused on freezing what iran is doing at fordow. and all of the diplomatic efforts have frankly, been unsuccessful. trump pulled out of the iran deal that had inspectors on site. there were reports that iran was

dispersing. some of its capabilities. israel says there's new intelligence saying that iran is moving more. quickly to enrich uranium and develop a nuclear weapon. and the united states really stands as the only player in the world who could actually take out fordo. >> so let me ask you, because you've been in these meetings and a variety of capacities from the cia and dod, what you do planning the day after planning or weeks after or months after planning to think about if the us, if the military capability of the united states is used just to say just to take out the nuclear facility in fordo, what are the impacts? iran is going to respond? what does that look like? the preparation of attacking troops. is there something on the homeland we should worry about? what do you think about? >> there's no such thing. >> as one and done. >> and anytime you brief a military operation to a secretary of defense or commander in chief, not only do you talk about risks to the mission, but you also talk about risks to the force. so, for example, if we were to fly a stealth bomber and try to hit fordo, if we joined israel in this campaign, the biggest question will be what happens

the next day? what happens to our troops in qatar, in bahrain, in uae, on naval vessels in the persian arabian gulf? what happens to our allies and partners? what happens back to israel? what happens to jordan? what happens to egypt? what happens to uae and saudi arabia and the other gcc countries? so we have a lot of interests at stake. there's no such thing as one and done. we can't just fly a weapon into a nuclear facility and say, that's it. that's the end of the nuclear program. first, you can't really kill off know how. so iran is going to still try to get a nuclear capacity. we have to be very vigilant through diplomacy and other means, including deterrence, to prevent iran from continuing to want to get a nuclear weapon. >> let me ask you about some of the other pieces beyond fordow, because netanyahu did not take off the table going after trying for regime change, which would i mean, they've already taken out some of the leaders there. trump also didn't take off the table going after the ayatollah. again, i referenced before, you know, they were trump saying, evacuate tehran. that is much bigger. how do you think about

what the implications of that? we don't know that he's going to do that. but what is the implications of taking trying to take out the ayatollah or bombing tehran? >> well, i subscribe to the colin powell rule, which is the pottery barn rule. you break it, you buy it. and i think our lessons of the last 20 years, both in afghanistan and iraq, has been when you try to replace the government there, the institutions just won't work themselves. and so it's very hard for the united states. it's very hard for any country to kind of fantasize and effectuate any effective regime change. so i really think that before there's discussion about regime change, we should be talking very clearly and very resolutely about what are our objectives, how do we prevent iran from getting a nuclear weapon? and i would put on the table even a policy shift, which is that iran shall not be allowed to enrich on its soil. all the other diplomatic deals have allowed for some enrichment and said, you know, you can enrich. >> to low levels. >> i think maybe we have to be tougher and say, no enrichment on iranian soil and then see if iran takes that deal.

>> we only have about less than a minute left. but i mean, do you think there's any scenario where a discussion over a deal is even possible right now? i mean, trump's. >> not. >> threatening. >> not right now. but i do think in the medium term, over the coming weeks and months, we're going to have to talk to the iranians, either directly or indirectly. ultimately, jen, the only way we're going to stop iran from becoming a nuclear weapon state is through a diplomatic effort coupled with strong military force. >> jeremy bash, thank you for bringing all of your expertise. you know, many, many things in your head. i really appreciate you being here. unfortunately, i think this is going to be an ongoing discussion, so i hope you'll come back, talk to me about it again. coming up. how do you respond when tragedy hits? it's a question unfortunately, a lot of people have faced lately, including the families of a state senator and her husband in minnesota. the president of united states doesn't have a clue, but the people of minnesota sure do. people of minnesota sure do. we'll talk about it when we so what are you thinking? i'm thinking... about our honeymoon... how about africa?

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claim 40%. >> off. >> at sonic smooth.com. the tragic murders of minnesota state rep melissa hortman and her husband mark, allegedly for political reasons, has led to a study in contrast. i mean, the category of what not to do. republican senator mike lee of utah spread politicized lies and even cracked cruel jokes about the tragedy. his democratic colleague, senator tina smith of minnesota, who knew the victims personally, confronted senator lee about his behavior. you can see that photo right there on the screen just off the senate floor last night. her chief of staff then sent an email to lee's team, further educating them on how not to respond to political violence. why do people need this education in the senate? here's what they wrote. have you absolutely no conscience? no decency? i pray

that if, god forbid, you ever find yourselves having to deal with anything similar, you find yourselves on the receiving end of the kind of grace and compassion that senator mike lee could not muster. lee finally deleted his offensive post earlier today, but is yet to acknowledge he did anything wrong. then in the category of what to do are the children of victims melissa and mark ortmann. they chose to spread a very different message, writing in a statement, quote, our parents lived their lives with immense dedication to their fellow humans. this tragedy must become a moment for us to come together. hold your loved ones a little closer, love your neighbors, treat each other with kindness and respect. if you would like to honor the memory of mark and melissa, please consider the following the neda list. plant a tree. visit a local park. pet a dog, tell your loved ones a cheesy dad joke and laugh about it. bake something. try a new hobby and enjoy learning something. stand up for

what you believe in, especially if that thing is justice and peace. those are the kids of two people who were brutally killed on saturday morning. that's incredible grace. and we had to read it all to you. that does it for me tonight. the last word with lawrence o'donnell starts right now. hi, lawrence. >> hey, jen. >> thank you. >> very much for reading that. that's actually the first i've heard it. >> i didn't. >> come across it today in my study of the coverage. peta dog and everything else on. >> that list. >> is just so important. and important for. days even that don't. include these political assassinations and other horrors. the, the, the average typical day we're. >> going through now. >> is a is a pet a dog day. >> no question about it. incredibly inspiring and graceful. i mean, what tragedy they've just dealt with and they're still mourning through. >> yes. >> yes. >> just just remarkable. >> and