potentially to the streets here. >> in d.c. >> and also as, as you were mentioning. >> earlier. >> the protests. >> in la. >> yeah, i think there's a lot of different threads that all feed into the pentagon. and the open question, is there a pc small group chat in the background of these considerations about israel and iran right now? liz landers, thank you for setting it up for us. we appreciate it. and that was way too early for this wednesday morning. morning joe starts right now. >> good morning and welcome to morning joe. it is wednesday. >> june 18th. >> we have a. >> lot to. >> get to this morning as the situation in the middle east. >> continues to. >> escalate, with israel's. >> military announcing. >> overnight it. >> struck a centrifuge production site in tehran. >> we'll bring you a live. >> report from the region in just a moment. this all comes as president trump. >> is weighing his. >> options on the growing conflict. we'll go through the new reporting on how. >> and why. >> the president's perspective

on iran has shifted over the past week. meanwhile, new analysis of the president's massive spending and tax bill is revealing more issues with its fiscal impact. plus, we'll show you the big moments from democratic senator alex padilla speech on the senate floor yesterday in response. >> to being detained. >> last week, tackled. >> by dhs. >> handcuffed agents. with us, we have the co-host of our fourth hour contributing writer at the atlantic, jonathan lemire. nbc news national affairs analyst and a partner in chief. political columnist at puck. john heilemann, columnist. and associate editor for the washington post. david ignatius is back with us this morning, and former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense jeremy bash is here also with us. u.s. national editor at the financial times. editor, loose. and we'll get right started right now as israel and. iran

trade fire for the sixth straight day, president trump is calling for iran's, quote, unconditional surrender. he made the comment in a truth social post yesterday, shortly after meeting with the national security council in the. >> situation room. >> the president claimed the. >> u.s. knows exactly. >> where iran's supreme leader is hiding, writing, quote, he is an easy target. we are not going to take him out, at least not for now. but we don't want missiles shot at civilians or american soldiers. our patience is wearing thin. videos posted on social media show huge lines of bumper to bumper traffic as people stream out of the. iranian capital this week. there was also gridlock at gas stations. multiple current and former administration officials tell nbc news. the president is now considering a variety of options, including launching a possible strike on iran. this comes as israel wants the united

states to drop its largest bunker busting bomb on a nuclear site that's deep underground. a white house official tells nbc news the president has spoken with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. no other details were provided so far. it all comes as israel's military says it struck a centrifuge production site in tehran, along with several weapons manufacturing facilities, part of. the ongoing exchange of. fire between israel and iran. missiles continued to be intercepted over tel aviv by israel's iron dome defense system overnight. the civilian death toll in israel now stands at 24, according to officials there. in iran, strikes continue throughout the day and into the night, with a large explosion reported just before dawn today. state media says at least 224 people have been killed since.

>> last friday. >> and as the two sides exchange fire, there are signs iran is scaling back its attacks on israel, the new york times reports. it could be part strategy, part necessity. while israel strikes have diminished iran's ability to hit back, the islamic republic may also be making a deliberate shift toward lower intensity attacks sustained over a longer period. at the same time, israel is reportedly running low on a key piece of weaponry that intercepts long range ballistic missiles, a u.s. official says the pentagon has been aware of the capacity problems for months. it raises concerns about israel's ability to. >> shield its. >> population centers if the conflict isn't resolved soon. >> david. yeah. >> brings us all up to date. >> yeah. thank you for that. and, david ignatius, i'm curious. >> about your. >> latest reporting. >> and obviously the one word.

>> two letter word. >> that everybody focused on yesterday for. good reason was the word we. >> when donald trump. >> talked about. we have control. >> over the skies. >> of iran. >> over tehran. >> what's your latest reporting? is the president. >> moving towards. >> bringing america. into this war. >> with israel against iran? >> so i think. >> from the. >> language coming. >> out of the white house. >> what we know about the meetings. >> that. >> are taking place. >> there's no question. >> that. >> that president trump is on the edge. of making what would be. >> a very. >> consequential decision to use. >> u.s. military. >> force in this conflict. >> this is not. >> an in and out, one. >> and done kind. >> of intervention. >> to join the war at this late date really does mean. >> you're going. >> to be involved in trying to obliterate. >> the essence. >> of, of rule by. >> ayatollah ali khamenei. >> and in a sense, share responsibility for what comes

after. from the beginning of this, joe. >> there has. >> been concern among u.s. officials. >> that israel can. >> start a war against. >> iran. >> but it can't finish it without u.s. help. that's something that bothered president trump back in february, when. prime minister netanyahu first began. >> proposing the kinds. >> of attacks. >> that we've seen. >> beginning last, last friday. >> and trump was was. wary of being drawn into something that he wasn't. >> sure was. >> was required. >> he thought that maybe. >> diplomacy could accomplish the same. >> but this. >> issue that in the end there would be. >> this deep, deep. >> underground iranian facility. >> at fordo. >> south of tehran. >> that could only. >> be. >> taken out. whether iranians keep many of their most. sophisticated centrifuges could only be taken out by a us weapon, the so-called massive. >> ordnance chair. that that. >> would penetrator would

require. >> american intervention. >> and we're now on. >> the. >> edge of. >> that. >> as i. >> said at the beginning. but trump seems still uncertain. >> what he wants. >> what he wants to do, how to make up his mind. he should be uncertain. >> it's a big. >> big choice. >> one of the most consequential of. >> his presidency. >> right. >> well. >> and you know. jonathan lemire. you obviously have been reporting out of the white house over the past. >> 24 hours about some of. >> the divides inside. >> trump's own coalition. and part of the reason there's a divide inside of donald trump's. >> own coalition is there's. >> been a. >> divide, it. seems internally. >> with donald. >> trump. >> over the past 20 years. he's been talking for 20 years about how george w bush made a mistake. >> going into iraq. it's one of the things he constantly talked about on the campaign trail. and if somebody thinks that attacking iraq and then. >> dealing with the aftermath. >> is difficult, try iran. >> and that's. >> i mean, my god, that's not that's. not stating anything but the facts. i mean, what an absolute what an absolute.

complicated mess that would. >> be. >> not just humanitarian but strategic. >> the warnings we've heard. >> for years about the. possibility of. terrorism spawning off of that. i'm curious, where is. donald trump right now and how does this line up with. >> what he's been saying about the united. states getting involved. >> in middle eastern wars over the past. 20 years, and how he's always thought. >> those wars. >> were mistakes? >> yeah, it feels like so long ago. but one of the animating principles of his. 2015 2016. campaign was to was to be sharply critical of these forever wars. iraq and afghanistan, and say he would not do the same, that he did not want further. american intervention in the middle east because. >> of how inevitably. >> messy and. prolonged it would be. >> he now seems to be on the brink of doing. >> just that. >> and right. >> now. >> from people i've talked to inside. >> the building. >> and just outside close trump allies, all the signs, all the momentum. >> is. >> pointing one way, which is the u.s. getting involved fully.

but that has not happened yet. and we know that during president trump's first term, both two separate times in 2019 and 2020. >> he was on the. >> brink of real. >> escalation of using u.s. forces, u.s. weaponry on iran, and both times held back. so there is a chance. >> here he could again. >> this could just be a negotiating tactic. we know. >> as of a week. >> ago that was his. hope to bluster, to use the threat of. american force to get iran back to the negotiating table. he does seem, though, the events of the last few of the last week or so being pushed along by prime minister netanyahu, who has who has convinced him. >> that iran. >> is close to a weapon. now, i will say u.s. intelligence does. not agree with that assessment. they do not believe that iran. >> is. >> on the brink of that. and jeremy bash, that is where we are right now. and because if. >> president trump gives. >> the. go ahead, if they do this. >> my understanding. >> is to use these. >> bunker busting bombs. >> it's not just a b-2. it's not

just an american bomb. it would need to be an american aircraft. >> and an. >> american pilot. >> needed to deliver. >> them, which would. >> mean this would be an american strike. we'd be all in. walk us through this calculation. >> so for the last ten years or so, jonathan, the u.s. and israel have been discussing how to destroy, dismantle, degrade the underground enrichment facility at fordow, outside of the city of goma. this is a deep, buried underground facility with cascades spinning centrifuges that are enriching uranium and that can be enriched to what the iaea said last week was 60%, which is approaching bomb grade fuel. now that cascade hall is too small to power a civilian energy program for the iranian people, it is really a facility that's kind of tailor made for a weapons program, and the u.s. has had its eye on that facility for many years. we've engaged in several operations, including sabotage operations to go after

it. but of course, that facility still exists. and you're right, jonathan, if the only way to access it would be through a b-2 stealth bomber, which is based out of whiteman air force base in missouri, the pilots will have to fly a round trip mission all the way. they're getting aerial refueling and carrying that 30,000 pound massive ordnance penetrator. there's really no scenario in which we would give the plane to another country or let other countries pilots fly it. and so this is kind of squarely the president's call. i would just say, jonathan, on the intelligence. yes, you're right that u.s. intelligence has said we're not close. we do not believe that iran is close. i think you said we're close or on the brink of having a weapon, but let's just be precise. they suspended a weaponization program, but we have seen them enriching to higher levels necessary than civilian fuel. we've seen the program dispersed. we've seen an extensive iranian nuclear program all over the country. and if you kind of take just kind of take a big step back and say, look, israel destroyed osirak the iraqi reactor in

1981. it destroyed al khobar, the syrian reactor, in 2007, in a post october 7th world israel and any country really can't kind of wait for threats to gather and kind of wait until we're on the brink of having a nuclear weapon. this defensive preemptive action by israel does make logical sense. the question really is how much will the united states become involved? >> all right, let's. >> go straight to israel. joining us now from israel, just south of tel aviv is nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. richard, what are you seeing there? >> well, let. >> me just. >> start by describing the site where. >> i am. >> right now. >> i am just. >> south of. >> tel aviv, as. >> you mentioned. >> this is where. >> one of the iranian. ballistic missiles landed. >> a couple of days ago. >> but there is still an active. >> search and. >> rescue operation here. >> at least six people. >> were killed in the initial. >> strike and rescue. workers have recovered another. two bodies. >> bringing the death toll. >> so far. >> to eight. >> in just this. >> just this attack. and let me

just step out of camera. >> for a second. you can get a sense. >> of the. >> extent of. >> the damage. >> this bomb. >> landing right in. >> the middle. this missile. >> i should. >> say, right in. >> the middle of a residential area, shearing. >> off. >> the side. >> of the apartment building. >> obliterating all. >> of the buildings around it. actually, when you look at it, it's quite surprising that the death toll was relatively low, considering this city is still full. there are. >> no evacuation orders. >> in place. there is a semi state of emergency where people are told to stay near shelters. they're told. >> not. >> to congregate, but people are not evacuating this city. >> despite what was a. >> threat by iran. >> for israelis. >> to, for their own safety, get out. >> of this country. >> but i must say that over the last 24 hours or so, there have been more. iranian barrages, but they are not. >> that we saw. >> in the first days. there are still barrages, but. >> not hundreds. >> of ballistic missiles at a time. >> not hundreds. per day even.

>> instead, last. >> night there were two batches fired, more or less back to back, about 15. >> minutes apart, and each one. >> only had about a dozen. >> missiles in it. nearly all of them were shot down. the israeli. >> military is systematically taking out. iran's military capabilities. its nuclear program. it's its fighter jets, its launch sites. and now we are. there is this open question. will the united states. >> get involved? and president trump issued. >> that. >> ultimatum of calling for an. >> unconditional surrender. >> iran's supreme leader. >> has said that unconditional surrender is effectively out of the question. >> he issued. >> some some. >> bellicose statements on x. >> saying. >> that the war. >> is only beginning. >> and that. >> israel and. >> that iran will show. no mercy. but the real question is, do they have the capacity to do. much more than they are already doing? so, richard. >> if. >> you could. >> describe the domestic debate

right now or the opposition. the support for this all out war against iran inside of israel, but. also about any. >> discussions. debate about the united. >> states becoming involved. where do the israeli people seem to be on this? >> i would say at this stage, most israelis seem to be behind this conflict. once iran started. launching ballistic missiles, creating scenes of devastation. >> like this. >> in the in. >> the heart of tel. >> aviv and in the surrounding. >> suburbs. like i am right. >> now, a lot of israelis pulled together. we're not. >> seeing the same kind. >> of anti-netanyahu. >> protests on the. streets that. >> we. >> did even. >> a few weeks, even a few months ago. instead. >> israelis seem to say that this is. >> a war. >> that they had no choice but to. >> but to. >> but. >> to launch. >> that, that it. is better to. fight against iran now. >> while it. is weak. >> than. wait for it to have a

nuclear weapon. >> so yes. >> of. >> course, israel. >> israel society is divided. >> it's divided. >> socially, it's divided. >> politically. but there are. >> no protests. >> and when. >> we're talking to people on the streets. >> most of them. >> seem behind the operation. >> all right. nbc news chief. foreign correspondent richard engel, as always, thank you so much. and you look at. >> reaction around. >> the. >> world and especially in europe. >> we did have german chancellor merkel. >> come out saying that. >> israel is doing. >> the dirty work. >> the hard work for. >> the rest of us. >> other european leaders. >> seemed a bit more reserved in their support. >> for the united. >> states getting involved. >> or is israel's. >> actions in iran. give us. >> give us a. >> reaction that. >> you're picking up across europe. >> in the world? well. >> i think, you. >> know, they're. >> all calling for restraint. the british, the french. >> they, of course, have just been in. >> the. >> g7 meeting in alaska. >> that donald.

>> trump left early. but they're they're fairly. peripheral to this situation. i think far more interesting is russia's. >> relative restraint on this. >> they like the fact that the. focus has shifted from ukraine to the middle east, even though iran is really a protege of russia's. putin hasn't been robust in support of iran. he hasn't been providing it with the weapons it's been asking for since it's been really exposed over the last few months, and is indicating that he's not going to get in the way of whatever trump is up to in the middle east. this is a different kind of relationship, of course, to the one that he had with biden. but ultimately, i think there's. real skepticism about netanyahu's grounds for launching this war on iran right now. they the europeans, british, i know, have similar intelligence to what the american intelligence agencies have been saying, which that is,

that iran is not moved dramatically closer to break out nuclear situation, that it that it was a few months ago. there is this view and i think it's pretty well grounded that netanyahu stays in power because of war and that he's run out of road with gaza. there's been a real growing backlash internationally, but also at home. former prime ministers like olmert criticizing his conduct of war in gaza and that there was some nervousness by netanyahu that trump's talks with iran, that steve witkoff negotiations there in the region with iran might be might be coming close to some kind of a deal, a deal, of course, that trump pulled out of in his first term. and that, of course, would would have shut off netanyahu's ability to conduct an operation like this. so i think the view is that this is a war of choice

and a war that is essentially sabotaging any, any negotiations that that trump was planning to continue with iran. a lot of skepticism about the grounds for this war. >> all right, everybody, stand by. coming up, we're. >> going to bring. >> in new york times investigative reporter mark mazzetti, talking about how. >> trump has. >> shifted on this issue. also, the very interesting developments. between the relationship between donald trump and his dni director tulsi. >> gabbard. >> as he flatly rejects her assessment. >> of an overall. >> situation here. we'll be >> situation here. we'll be right back wit at at&t business, we confidently guarantee our network. what we can't guarantee...enough hours in the work day... or...your projects always going as planned... 3 days max. (glass shattering) oof...more like 3 weeks. (♪♪) hey! and closing up shop on time? still open? sure!

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wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. eye redness and blurred vision may occur. ♪ miebo ♪ ♪ ohh yeah ♪ ask your eye doctor about prescription miebo. >> trump is. >> listening to the anti-war wing. >> of his party. >> maybe he'll listen to the anti-war wing of his own administration, like tulsi gabbard. >> his. own director. >> of national intelligence. >> tulsi gabbard. >> testified in march that. >> the intelligence community said iran wasn't building a nuclear weapon. >> what she said, i think they were very close to having one. >> this is the benefit. >> of appointing unqualified, crazy people to your team. >> you can always. >> be like, do you know how crazy an unqualified. >> she is? i don't care what she said. >> that's a clip from the daily show on president trump blowing off. >> tulsi gabbard. >> his own director of national

intelligence. politico is reporting on the tensions between the two, stemming in part from gabbard's recent social media post warning about nuclear annihilation. according to politico, quote, trump saw the unauthorized video and became incensed, complaining to associates at the white house that she had spoken out. >> of turn. >> trump reportedly saw it as an audacious attempt to steer him toward her anti interventionist approach to foreign policy. >> it was a. >> bizarre thing to do. >> obviously. >> a bizarre thing to do, especially if you. hadn't spoken. >> with the president. >> who appointed. >> you, and the president whose administration. >> you work for. >> i mean, look at it. it's just seriously, john heilemann, i will say, as bizarre as that video was, yeah, it really does underline the. >> divide. >> the great divide. >> down the middle. >> of donald. >> trump's maga base, you know, 2003, the closest. >> parallel, obviously.

>> the invasion. >> of iraq. >> you had republicans marching. >> lock step step. not only. >> in congress. >> but also. >> outside of. >> congress. >> behind george w bush's decision to go into iraq. >> not so here. >> talk about. >> the divide in the maga base. >> and. also how that. divide rose out of donald. trump opposing, flatly opposing in the campaigns of 2016, 20, 20 and 24. this type of intervention and wars. >> in the middle east. well. >> right, joe, i mean, first of all, if you're going to in a conventional administration, if. >> you're. >> a senior official and you want to try to influence the president's thinking, you generally don't want to leave fingerprints, right? so you you have those you go on background as a senior official or a source familiar in the new york times, you don't put out a highly produced video. >> with your with. >> speaking straight to camera, weighing in and. >> speaking straight to camera. >> basically saying if. >> the president does this, he's going to lead us to world war

three, right? traditional move inside of any administration. >> yes, it looks more like a democratic attack ad than it looks like than a than a, a part of a product of internal debate inside the trump administration. so tulsi gabbard may be on thin ice there because trump does not like to have his him to feel like he's been boxed in by people who work for him. you are right though. you know what she is representing. there is a point of view. it is the point of view of tucker carlson, the point of marjorie taylor greene, the point of view of steve bannon, the point of view of charlie kirk. a lot of very powerful people in donald trump, particularly in the media sphere, but not wholly in the media sphere of donald trump's base on the maga. right. and then you have obviously, this much larger, more traditional piece, largely in the in the legislative branch. people like lindsey graham would be the poster child for those who think that the united states should get involved here. and yes, it is true that trump has throughout not just on the iraq question, but throughout. one of his proudest talking points has always been no wars. i didn't

get us into any wars in my first term. i will not get us into any wars in our second term. he is very been very powerful. he's a place where the maga base is in fact connected to a broader american public, which is in fact sick of forever wars and does feel as though the u.s. has been has often made costly mistakes getting involved in these kinds of conflicts. but trump is a man of absolutes, joe. >> as you. >> know, he loves to be able to say things like, we've gotten into no wars, but he also is on record for a long time saying iran must not have a nuclear weapon. and that's where we get to this conflict. trump normally takes an absolute position where he feels safe, that there won't be another absolutist position that he has raised that will conflict with it. now he is being told by by many that those two things are in opposition. >> that he's. >> going to have to get involved actively in this war if he's going to accomplish the other absolute that he's pledged to, which is iran not getting a nuclear weapon. now, i know the intelligence is murky on this, but this is the kind of situation trump hates where two

absolute promises he's made are in conflict, and i have no idea where he's going to. >> come down in the end. >> he's under a lot of pressure from. both sides, though. jonathan. >> yeah he is. and i wrote on this today. let's remember back in 2020 after the soleimani strike, you. >> talk about the divide in. >> the media. you could go on fox news. back then at 8:00, tucker carlson was talking through trump through the television saying, don't do this, don't retaliate. >> and then at. >> 9:00, sean hannity, a much more hawkish view suggesting this might be the moment. >> to strike on tehran. >> trump, close to both men, spoke to both men privately as well as watched the show eventually sided with carlson. didn't escalate. >> this time around. >> it feels a little different. john is right in this divide. >> the maga base. >> i've written. >> about. it for today. carlson. though trump is called a kook, he doesn't seem to be listening. >> to carlson. >> he seems to be leaning more towards the hawkish viewpoint. and also joe. >> mika, at this. >> moment where it seems like israel is. >> going. >> full force. >> anyway. >> trump wants to. >> associate himself with their success. how much a part. of this was the fact.

>> that donald trump knew that netanyahu wasn't listening to him any more than he was. listening to joe biden, and he didn't want netanyahu. to attack iran while. >> he was. urging restraint. >> yeah, that's a real part of this, is that the relationship between. >> trump and. >> netanyahu has. >> really grown strained. >> over recent months. netanyahu. >> much like you, ignored president biden, ignoring what. >> trump has. >> wanted there in. >> gaza. >> not willing to talk ceasefire. and here in. >> iran. >> netanyahu signaled to him over the last week. and we're going to bring in some more. >> reporting on. >> this in. >> a moment. you know, that israel was forging forward and that trump didn't want to be seen as being completely ignored. still, though, wanted negotiations. >> but once. >> he saw that first wave of israeli attacks go so well, and how weak, how weak iran looked like, in response, he saw a moment there to shift his view. >> and you. >> can read jonathan's piece in the atlantic. let's bring in now investigative reporter for the new york times, mark mazzetti.

he is coauthor of the new piece entitled how trump shifted on iran under pressure from israel. >> so. >> mark. >> walk us through it, if. >> you will. we started. >> talking about it. >> walk us through it. well. as david ignatius pointed out earlier, this show, the you know. >> netanyahu. >> as we know, has been pushing for years, decades for the united states to join in an. israeli attack against iran's nuclear facilities and. >> ultimately. >> several american presidents decided that he was bluffing, because. >> if the united states was not going. >> to join, he would not start the war for several reasons. hezbollah had. >> thousands of missiles. >> in southern. lebanon that. iran could use to retaliate. >> the iranian missile. >> program seemed. >> incredibly capable. >> israel didn't have. >> access to over syrian airspace and iranian airspace. well, a lot of that changed in the fall, where hezbollah was largely knocked out. the syrian

regime fell. >> the iranian. >> missile capability seemed less than previously thought. >> so that led. >> netanyahu to a position. >> of. >> greater leverage. where. >> he could push the new. >> american president. >> to. >> say. >> basically, i'm going to start this. >> war. >> and it may be a fait. accompli that you have to join. >> once i've started. >> so the. >> leverage change. >> and i. think trump began to see. >> that late. >> may. >> american intelligence. >> agencies assessed that netanyahu was likely going. >> to. >> launch an attack. >> with or without the. united states. and then. >> it became. >> a decision for trump about. >> well. >> would he join? and that's kind of obviously where we are now. and this. >> idea of israel. >> being able to start a war, but not being able to finish a war. remains because the united states still has the capabilities that israel doesn't have these bunker buster. bombs to hit facilities. >> the central sort. >> of core. >> of the. >> iranian nuclear program. and so, in many. >> ways, netanyahu. >> is kind of boxed trump in on

this. >> mark. >> this david ignatius. >> in washington as. >> a superb piece. >> of reporting this morning. >> in in the times. i want to ask you whether in your. >> reporting. >> you get any. >> sense of. >> whether u.s. >> or israeli. >> officials have. >> thought clearly. >> and systematically about what comes next. >> if you use. >> this massive ordnance penetrator to take out. >> the remains of the. >> iranian program, if. >> ayatollah khamenei, the supreme leader. >> is, as. >> he appears. >> a target, what happens after those actions are taken? who takes responsibility? have you heard any discussion of that? >> i mean. >> the not. on the i mean. >> the obviously the americans have been thinking about this for some time, but not it's. been this sort of, sort of. >> hypothetical exercise, right, about what if the nuclear. >> program went down and what if. >> the regime fell, right? there's no way, as you've said, that this just is a clean.

>> one shot. >> operation where. >> you drop a bunker. >> buster fordo is gone. >> and everyone can. >> walk away happy. >> i mean. >> that would be would be. >> one course of action, but that's not. what ultimately the aim of. >> the. >> israeli operation is. >> there would have to be. >> some ground. >> element to go in to fordo. >> on the ground. >> to, to, to, to. >> gather information. >> to finish off. >> the program. and it's not the united states. >> i would. >> not think that donald. >> trump would want to authorize a larger. >> ground presence of american troops in iran. so these are. they're they're. certainly thinking through the scenarios of what happens afterwards. but it does not these are not scenarios that would necessarily be in line with what donald trump would want to authorize. >> all right. new york times investigative. >> reporter mark. >> mazzetti. thank you. >> so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> mark.

>> and sharing your important reporting. we greatly appreciate it. jeremy bash, it seems the president. >> finds himself. >> i'm going to. >> use a couple of old southern sayings that i heard growing up. >> between a. >> rock and a hard place. >> and reminds. >> me of what. >> an older member. >> of. >> the armed services committee. >> once told. >> me, which was. >> boy, if you attack. a snake, you better kill the snake. talking about. the provocation. >> that the united. >> states has started. >> and it seems to me. >> that is. >> a gross. >> oversimplification of what situation we. find ourselves in. because if iran. >> survives this, obviously they will. >> have all the more. reason to build. >> a. >> nuclear weapon that's. >> on one side of the. >> ledger that the president has to look at. on the other side of the ledger. >> is, of course, what happened in. iraq 22. >> years ago. >> in march, when everybody was talking about how we were marching. >> to baghdad and. >> how easy that. >> was and. >> and how we were going to

remake. >> the middle east. >> in, in sort of modeled. >> jeffersonian democracy. and a lot of us, i'll include. myself in the initial stages of the war. greatly oversimplified. >> the tragedy that. was about. >> to unfold there. >> the president was defined by. that in many ways. so these are the two things that the president is balancing right now. >> how how. >> based on your. >> experience. how should he. >> how should. >> other policy leaders, how should all of us. sort through that dilemma? >> well, look, i. think one lesson from iraq is boots on the ground and regime change can't be done easily because you got institutions in the country that won't run themselves. and so it kind of falls to the occupying power to rebuild that nation, sort of the colin powell pottery barn rule. you break it, you buy it. but we shouldn't also over learn lessons from the iraq experience in which there are standoff weapons. there are

capabilities that don't involve boots on the ground that don't involve regime change. that can be the precise use of effective military power to get strategic advantage. we've done that against the houthi forces. we've done that in other cases against other iranian surrogates and proxies in iraq. and as mark and david and others have pointed out, the context in the region has changed. and since last year, after iran attacked israel with ballistic missiles twice after its proxy hezbollah fell, after hamas has been degraded and after the syrian regime fell as well. this may be a moment in which israel, working with the united states, could use precise military power to achieve the objective of setting back iran's nuclear program. i'm not arguing for it. i'm just saying there is an inherent logic to it. that doesn't mean we're all going to be in an iraq style war for 20 years, and that there's going to be regime change. we're going to be boots on the ground. there are ways to achieve your objectives short of that. >> all right. former chief of staff at the cia. >> and department of defense jeremy bash. thank you so much, david ignatius. jeremy brought up colin powell's quote before

the first, the second iraq war. >> if you break it. >> you own it. >> yeah. >> what will the united states own? >> i mean. >> people are not going to be looking across the world is for israel to clean this up. we all understand the opportunities of destroying iran's nuclear program once and for all. but on the other side of the ledger is the president's thinking about this. what would you tell him? what does owning this war and breaking this regime, what does. >> that entail? >> so, joe, i think. >> any sensible council begins. with the reality. >> that, as. >> i said earlier, this. >> is not. >> in and out. >> it's not. >> one and done. >> this is. >> a consequential. >> choice that would change donald trump's presidency. >> you can imagine that you'll just go in with a b-2 and drop this. bomb and. blooey there goes the iranian nuclear program. but the follow on. consequences of that, because that would. >> bring the regime.

>> into jeopardy, are enormous. in iran. that becomes an anarchic, ungoverned. >> is a. >> different kind of. >> danger for. >> the region. >> my fear. >> about a limited military option is that we'd end up with something like saddam hussein in. >> iraq in the 1990s. >> we waged a limited. war in 1991, the. >> first gulf war. >> to get the iraqis out of kuwait and then pulled back. president george h.w. bush thought, let's not get into a deep war there. >> the consequence. >> was that you had a. hideously repressive. >> regime of saddam. >> hussein basically taking it out on the iraqi people for the next ten years, in some of the grimmest rule by torture that i've. >> ever. >> ever written about. so. these are not easy questions. >> for the president. >> i wish i think the one thing that troubled me was that he seemed finally. to leave his

position of wanting to try to negotiate a settlement of. >> this. >> seeing the israeli glamorous military. >> victory, you know, then. >> suddenly it was donald trump claiming, we own the skies. well, it's israeli jets and fighter pilots who done that. the idea of jumping into a war at the late stage to claim some of the credit doesn't. >> seem right. >> but he's got a big decision, and you can only imagine the. >> kinds of pressures. >> he, like any. >> american president, would. >> be feeling right now. >> the washington post david ignatius, once again, thank you. we have a feeling we just might see you again tomorrow morning, david. thank you. and still ahead on morning joe, the new republic's michael tomasky says america is at a terrifying turning point, and there's no going back. he'll join us to explain that ominous headline. plus, we'll play for you some of democratic senator alex padilla of california's emotional speech

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>> did it right. >> perfected. find. >> your fit at wear pepper comm. >> i pray you never have a moment like this, but i will tell you in that moment a lot of questions came to my mind. first of all, where are they taking me? because i know i'm not just being escorted out of the building. am i being arrested and what will a city already on edge from being militarized think when they see their united states senator being handcuffed just for trying to ask a question? >> that was democratic senator alex padilla. >> of california. yesterday on the. >> senate floor. his fiery speech was in. >> response to. >> being forcibly removed from. >> homeland security. >> secretary kristi. >> noem's news conference last

week. here's more of what. the senator had to say. now, throughout this country's history, we've had conflict. we've had tumult, but we've never had a tyrant as a commander in chief. and that is not by coincidence. it's because the american people have always been willing to speak up and exercise their first amendment rights to protest, especially when our fundamental rights have been threatened. a united states senator becomes too afraid to speak up. how can we expect any other american to do the same? it doesn't matter if you're a republican or a democrat or an independent. we all have a responsibility to speak up and to push back before it's too late. so i do encourage people to keep peacefully protesting.

there's nothing more patriotic than to peacefully protest for your rights. >> let's bring in the editor of the new republic, michael tomasky, editor. >> of the financial times. >> still with. >> us as. >> well for this conversation. michael, good to see you. your recent. piece reflects. >> on the. consequential events. >> of this past weekend. >> with the headline. >> america is at a terrifying. >> turning point and there's no going back. tell us what you mean. >> well, good morning jonathan. i think. we all. woke up saturday to that absolutely shocking news out of minnesota about the shootings. and it was just very hard to process. and then, of course, we followed the manhunt over the succeeding days and learned more about the assailant, the alleged assailant that was preceded, though, by what happened to senator padilla in los angeles the previous week. and now, ever since i wrote that piece, it's been followed. >> by what happened. >> to brad lander, the mayoral candidate in new york yesterday,

when he also was manhandled by ice agents. you can't watch these things and not see a pattern. they always teach us in journalism that three is a pattern. but but more seriously, i. >> mean. >> you can't watch these things and not suspect that something bad is happening that's new and unique, and that isn't where we've been before. i say in the piece, we did go through a period of pretty extreme political violence in the united states in the late 1960s and early and mid 1970s. this feels worse to me. this feels more permanent. that felt like it was aberrational because it was about a couple of issues that caused a generational convulsion. vietnam and civil rights. this, though, feels different because frankly, one of our two major political parties winks at and sometimes abets and then sometimes literally pardons political violence. >> and editor lewis, you covered similar ground in your latest

piece with this chilling. >> headline. >> return of the american assassin. >> yeah, so i strongly agree with. >> what michael. >> just said, that we're at a we've been at a turning point for a while. the difference between previous periods of political assassination, political violence, fringe sort of terrorist kind of activity in the late 60s. and the 70s was that that was not being exhausted from the white house, that was not being encouraged by the white house. what donald trump has done. and it's the first big act, of course, when he after he was inaugurated this time in january, was to pardon those hundreds of people who who were felons because of the jan six storming and of course, commuting the sentences of those who had plotted it and been involved directly in violence that signaled that trump has your back if you commit violence in his cause. he has also

recently said he's considering pardoning the nine men who were convicted of plotting to kidnap michigan governor gretchen whitmer. again, exactly the same. exactly the same signal green light is being sent from the white house. we never had that coming from the white house, under lbj or under even nixon, let alone under carter. this is a very, very different kind of situation. so i strongly agree with michael's point that there's a pattern here, and that pattern originates from the top, not from the fringes. >> hey, michael, it's heilemann here. i think, you know, you see the it's not doesn't feel. >> coincidental that you've. >> seen the assassinations. you've seen the senator padilla. now, here in new. >> york. >> you've seen a mayoral candidate, the comptroller. take it away. these are, you know, talk about three's a pattern,

you know. et cetera. as you say. and i think in some respects, obviously it feels it feels more focused than the violence in the 60s. the point that you make more i'm not sure, worse or better, because some of the things that the 60s were pretty horrific, from kent state to the bombings of columbia. et cetera. et cetera. but the point you make also is here to stay. and i want to i want to try to get you to comment on that. what makes this feel to you? as though the 60s was transient and that the patterns we're seeing now might be even longer lasting, because you felt. >> the vietnam war was going to end eventually, you felt that the civil rights movement was, you know, that at some point we were going to find some kind of equilibrium there. >> it's arguable. whether we have even yet today. but, you know. >> those those. >> didn't feel like things that were permanent features of. >> our political. >> life and culture. >> but this does now. and because as i wrote and because,

as ed. >> said, it's coming from the top. >> it's being abetted and winked. >> at. >> by the white house. >> and that's a really. different thing. now, will that change? >> maybe that will change. you know, if the republicans lose spectacularly in 2028, assuming. >> there's an election. and the. >> democrats win and republicans. decide to. >> do an. >> autopsy and. >> decide to change course. >> but i think. the maga. grip on the republican. >> party, with its. winking at violence. >> and. >> sometimes even. worse than that. i think that's here to stay. >> for. >> the foreseeable future, for sure. well, michael, of course. >> people on the maga right would would remind you and remind. everybody in this conversation that it was donald trump himself who was a target of two assassination attempts over the past summer during the middle of the campaign. i think one of you, i think it may have been, had talked about hard to imagine the horrific

consequences if those one of those two assassination attempts had been successful. so this obviously is not just a maga right phenomenon. what what what what explains what happened to donald trump twice over the past summer? well, there doesn't. >> seem. >> to have been. a strong political motivation for either of those shooters. obviously, those. >> were horrible events, but there doesn't seem to have been a strong political motivation identified by the fbi in either of those cases. more broadly, though, joe. you make a fair. >> point and. >> a. point that i should address. there's some political. violence that emanates from the left, there's no question about it. >> but, you know. >> here's the difference. antifa, you know, they hate the democratic party. >> as much as they hate the republican party. the democratic party is just part of the capitalist oppressor class. to those people. they weren't running to the polls to vote for kamala harris. >> and, you. >> know, if those kinds of.

>> groups had offered their support to. harris or any. high ranking democrat, it would. >> have been. >> i'm sure, spurned. but not that any such offer. >> would. have been made, because those groups hate the democrats. on the right, there's a different relationship between. >> the extremist groups. >> and the republican. >> party and the sitting president. very different. yeah. >> and i'll ask the same question of you. obviously, you wrote about the two assassination attempts against president trump over the past summer. explain how that fits in to your thesis. >> well. >> what's odd about that is that trump isn't more concerned about the danger of bullets in politics. i mean, as i as i wrote, if trump had been killed last july, goodness knows what the social breakdown would have been, of course, in itself would have been a tragic crime to kill the nominee of one of america's two parties. but the backlash to that is just unknowable, which makes it all the more puzzling

that, you know, when the department of homeland security and the fbi and american threat assessors for domestic violence have consistently over many years been saying, look, the stronger terrorist threat and lone wolf threat of political assassination and other and other terror events comes from these far right militias. it makes it all the more surprising that trump's administration is dismantling those units that were set up at the department of homeland security and the fbi to monitor those groups and try and preempt such violence. so i don't think there's any allegation, not that trump's used to it, that he's being consistent here, but he was within a quarter of inch of losing his life. and i think some of the actions he's taken to remove these monitoring groups at federal agencies are making it likely that other, other such tragedies like we saw in in minnesota are going to

take place, that i mean, that's just a real puzzle and it shouldn't it shouldn't be happening. >> yeah. >> and jonathan lemire, talk about the reporting from inside the white house, the white house. donald trump obviously sent out words of, of consolation of, of condolences after those heinous assassinations in minnesota. some democrats, though upset that he hasn't spoken out more, that he hasn't talked to tim walz, that he and other members of the republican party haven't condemned mike lee. what is the white house saying? post minnesota about those slayings? and is there any going to be any attempt by this white house to curb political violence coming from the right or the left? >> this is one of those situations where the. >> white house. >> and the. >> president don't always march.

>> in lockstep from the white house aides. i've talked to a recent days, of course, horrified. >> by what. >> happened in minnesota and concerned about the rise of political violence, which is. becoming far. >> far too common in our society. and you're right, president trump immediately. >> very quickly after the news of the shooting broke, took to social media. >> to offer. >> his condolences. to condemn. >> what happened. >> he's been. >> asked now. >> a. >> couple of. >> times. >> however, why haven't. you called governor walz? and he just basically said. >> well, i don't. >> like the guy. i think he's an idiot. i'm paraphrasing, but was very critical of him because he was vice president harris, his running mate in 2024 and basically says he has no interest in talking to him. so there's the inherent contradiction there with with trump. and look, temperature is entirely too high in the political discourse in this country. we have well chronicled over the years how trump has contributed to that. but there is certainly. >> a hope that. >> the temperature will lower. but we have yet to see concrete steps from anyone in washington, including at the white house, to really bring. >> it down. >> and one data point that we haven't brought up yet. one

other thing that has been brought up yet is, of course, after the vicious attack on nancy pelosi's husband. not only did donald trump not condemn those attacks, but donald trump openly mocked and ridiculed paul pelosi, mocked and ridiculed nancy pelosi, mocked and ridiculed the security situation around our home. something obviously very shocking for everybody in the political sphere. >> and luce of the financial times, thank you. he's the author of the new book entitled zbig the life of zbigniew brzezinski, america's great power prophet. and joe, you brought up nancy pelosi and paul. i saw them this past weekend at an event. and ed, she's halfway through the book and loves. >> the book about her old friend. >> so another fan of zbig. thank you, ed luce. all right. editor of the new republic, michael tomasky, thank you so much for being on this morning. >> and michael and john

heilemann. yeah, i know, veering veering wildly here. we could we could talk about the passing of brian wilson, of course, which was tragic, but we have 30s actually to wish one of his biggest fans a happy birthday this morning. paul mccartney. michael, i'll start with you. i was going to text you before the show started, actually, joe, to make sure you knew. i'm glad you brought it up, sir. paul, if you're. >> watching. >> you know. yeah, i know, i don't. i'm glad i don't. happy 83rd, sir. all right, john. >> 83 years old and still kicking it, joe. i mean, i think about the things that the blessings that we have, the fact that we have been allowed to be alive on this planet at the same time as paul mccartney. it's like being on the planet with mozart or bach or beethoven. >> there you go. >> exactly. >> roll, roll over, sir paul. see you later. happy birthday. >> there you go. >> still ahead on morning joe, we're going to be joined by former u.s. ambassador to ukraine bridget brink for insight on the state of the trump administration's

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>> who's dale? >> american home shield now provides video chat with live repair experts for home fixes over the phone. let's go fix that oven. >> okay, dale. >> sign up today at. com. >> it is the top of the second hour of morning joe. a live look at new york city. welcome back everyone. it's wednesday, june 18th. jonathan lemire is still with us. and joining the conversation, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle joining us. let's get right to our top story this hour as israel and iran trade fire for the sixth straight day, president trump is calling for iran's, quote, unconditional surrender. he made the comment in a truth social post yesterday, shortly after meeting with the national security council in the situation room.

the president claimed the u.s. knows exactly where iran's supreme leader is hiding, writing, quote, he is an easy target. we're not going to take him out, at least not for now. but we don't want missiles shot at civilians or american soldiers. our patience is wearing thin. and just moments ago, iran's supreme leader responded to president trump's call for the country to surrender, warning that any u.s. strike will have serious, irreparable consequences. >> let's bring in right now foreign affairs columnist for the new york times, tom friedman, tom's book from beirut to jerusalem is on sale now. and his recent piece for the new york times titled the smart way for trump to end the israel-iran war. tom, not a lot of easy choices here in front of the president this morning. the possibility to disarm, nuke, disarm iran and to stop them from developing nuclear weapons.

but on the other side of that ledger, of course, all we have to do is look back to the consequences of the iraq invasion 22 years ago. so what's the president's best step forward, in your opinion? >> well, joe, since this started, i've. >> been. advocating coercive diplomacy. the israelis have provided. >> the coercion. >> very effectively. >> they've done enormous. >> damage to iran's military capacities. >> its missiles. >> and its nuclear. supply chain. >> i think. >> now would be a good. time for the diplomacy side to. >> to, to basically. >> for trump to send witkoff. back to say we made you an. >> offer before. >> we're going to. >> make you an offer one. >> last time. >> you see what israel is capable of. >> you see where you are. >> you see where we're capable of. are you ready. to basically disassemble. >> your nuclear program. >> under the. >> auspices of the international

atomic energy commission? >> and if you. >> do. >> we will we will. >> move on and. >> reduce this threat. >> but i. >> think now. >> is the time to make that offer. you know. >> joe. >> back in 1991, i'm an old guy. i was with jim baker when he met with. >> tariq aziz in geneva on the eve of gulf. >> war one. >> and made a very. similar offer. the world saw that it gave america enormous legitimacy. then when tariq aziz. >> regrettably. >> as as. baker said. >> turned us down. >> gave the united states. >> the ability. >> to. put a whole. >> global coalition together against iraq, and i would be. >> sending our secretary of state or whoever is secretary. >> of state in this administration. >> i have no. >> clue anymore who does the. negotiating to. >> be making the. >> same kind of offer. to the iranians right now. so, tom, given all. >> that has happened in the last 5 or. >> 6 days, and given all that might happen within the next 3 or 4 days, apparently with budget bunker buster. >> bombs and talk. >> and everything. >> like that.

>> this increasingly volatile. region of the world, what is going on in riyadh and. >> dubai. >> what is going on there? >> well, mike, actually let me. >> talk about both riyadh and dubai. >> and even. >> more importantly. in beirut, damascus and baghdad. you know, we tend to look at this conflict as simply between iran and israel. >> in fact. >> the people rooting for this iranian regime to be defanged are not just israelis. they're lebanese, they're syrians. >> they're iraqis. >> who have lived. >> under the. boot of iranian. >> colonialism since 1979. >> iran's business model in. >> the middle east. >> was to. >> hire arab shiites to kill arab sunnis. >> in lebanon. >> syria and iraq. >> and through that, keep these countries permanently on a. >> boil. >> unable to basically coalesce any kind of democratic alternative, iran provided. >> the foot. >> soldiers through hezbollah. >> for bashar. >> assad in. >> syria to murder thousands. >> of his people in order to stay in power.

>> so you have a whole arab audience. >> forget the gulf, who are quietly, i. >> can tell you. rooting for israel. >> to take out the. >> iranian threat. >> they have benefited. enormously from the weakening. >> of iran. lebanon now. >> has a really good prime minister, a really good president. syria has a democratic. >> option, and. >> iraq actually is feeling a lot easier. >> also has. >> its own frail democracy. so nothing would be more welcome in these countries, let alone in israel, than to see the end of iranian imperialism. >> this is a. >> bad regime, and it's been bad for arabs. >> every bit. as much. >> as jews. >> so, tom, let's get your. >> take on a topic of conversation we had a short time ago. let's say the u.s. does go through this. president trump gives the go ahead and these bunker buster bombs are used. and you know, the devastation that follows for iran, what comes the day after. what comes the day after in. >> iran, particularly. >> for the united states? >> you know, and. >> if the colin powell maxim of

if you break it, you buy it, what does it look like next? >> just for the record. >> i wrote a column february 12th, 2001, 2003. excuse me. called you break it, you own it. the pottery store rule. >> that. >> started with me before the. >> iraq war. you get credit then? yeah. okay. >> look, i think we can't predict. but i do believe. >> that, first of all. >> what worries me is. >> that the iranian. >> leader is completely disconnected. >> how much information. >> can he be getting? he's sitting. >> in a bunker somewhere, hiding. his entire top military and military. >> intelligence leadership has been wiped out. >> and so. >> who knows. >> how much. >> he even. >> understands about what's going on. but that. >> said. >> somebody there does. and i do believe that if we made. one last attempt at at coercive diplomacy, and again, i would be demanding the end of their nuclear. >> program. >> who knows what they. >> what. >> they would answer. now. >> i think on one hand. >> you have to say karim

sadjadpour. >> the iran expert. >> at carnegie, likes to say the iranians. >> are homicidal but not suicidal. >> and so i think if we did go to war with them or take out this nuclear facility, they'd. >> have a big. >> decision whether they attack our forces, because that would that would truly mean the end of their regime. but that's that's on day. >> one or that's the morning after what i'm always looking at in. >> the middle. >> east, jonathan, is. >> the morning after. >> the morning after. that's when things get. >> really interesting and interesting. >> not always in a pleasant way. >> does iran begin, the regime begin to crumble. >> we're talking about a country. >> of. >> 95 million people. >> what kind of disorder flows from there? do you get a crazy general there who decides to sink some tankers in the straits of hormuz? it's just totally unpredictable. and i wouldn't even attempt to try to say what could happen. right now, i'm focused on this idea of we've developed the coercion very effectively. let's give one more shot at diplomacy.

>> so. so, tom, let me ask you a couple of questions. again. no, no easy answers here. but it's very easy for us to sketch out because it's so probable the chaos that would. flow from the toppling of the regime in iran. it is a frightening specter. we've seen it time and time again, even over the past 20, 25 years. on the other side of that ledger, though, is again, something i said earlier that an old southern member of the armed services committee told me one time, if you if you attack the snake, you better kill the snake. if israel if the united states does not follow through with the destruction of their nuclear program. wouldn't iran be motivated to move more quickly toward putting that nuclear program back together and building a bomb and using it against us? >> i'm not. >> sure they would. >> use it against us, but but certainly they could use it against israel.

>> yeah, yeah. >> joe, this. >> is a hellish problem. it's a. >> hellish choice. it always has been. and that's why i favor. >> a. >> kind of step by step methodical approach to it. i want the whole world to see that what iran has, every effort we made to avoid war. because if there is a war, joe, it's going to be a long war. and you want maximum legitimacy, you want the world behind us. that also creates leverage. and so how you get into this war, i think, really matters. i would say another thing, joe, you know, donald trump is now paying for paying for the fact that he appointed a cabinet of knuckleheads. you know, he's got a defense minister who is a former sunday weekend host on fox, his dni. he's repudiated because she's another knucklehead. you know, you hire clowns, you get a circus. and who is in the room? they're giving him advice right now. that is really scary. >> and this. >> is. >> why. you know, when. >> you hire people just for their slavish loyalty to you. >> not for their. >> expertise and willingness to

say no to you and to question you. that is really scary to me. and he's paying the price for that right now. >> and the next thing to bring up and again, you've you've obviously been through the first gulf war reporting on it from deep inside the administration and across the middle east, the second gulf war. i know you remember george w bush's axis of evil speech. it always struck many as tragically ironic that in the axis of evil, george w bush decided to go to war with the one member of that axis that was the furthest away from developing nuclear weapons, developing weapons of mass destruction. and i remember reading a column years ago where you had talked to somebody in tehran who said, why didn't you

guys come here? why we we're the ones who needed regime change. most of all, this is this is the best opportunity to change this regime that has been the epicenter of global terrorism since 1979. again, it just seems this is an existential bet. either way, the president goes with it. talk. talk about what the world looks like, though, with the threat of a nuclear iran. removed. >> yeah, i think, joe, i'm among that group that believes that, you know, this is a it it's not. an exact analogy, but it's a berlin wall kind of moment. and that this is this iranian regime is a really bad actor, not just regionally most of all, of course, for its own people. we're talking about a country that is a an incredible civilization. you know, going back thousands of years. the

potential of the persian nation, you know, to contribute to the to the region and to the world is enormous. and that has been completely stifled by this regime. i mean, and it's a tragedy for these people. but this regime has also stifled the opportunities of lebanon, of syria, of iraq. you know, it is no accident, joe, that people have pointed out the president of syria today. syria is like one country that hasn't even given the titular, oh, you shouldn't do this, america. like there are just a lot of arabs really rooting for this bad regime to leave. that's on the upside. and the downside is a vast country and instability from there can really spill over. and the transition will not be overnight. we're not going to go from this regime, you know, to a wonderful leader. and therefore i say what, what what i say in iraq. and today, if you're going to do this, this is a long road, you want maximum legitimacy to do this. and the maximum legitimacy. legitimacy is produced by going about this

in a very systematic way. israel has generated enormous coercive power on the iranians. whatever they're saying, they are really hurting and the israelis aren't done. okay, let's leverage that. so the whole world sees for one last time, we're going to go to this regime and say, you need to end this program in a verifiable way right now, okay? and if you don't, all right, that coercion is going to go to its final conclusion. let the whole world see that we are avoiding war every way we possibly can, but we're not. the world will not be a stable place if this regime is allowed to pursue this nuclear program, which is clearly not about generating electricity. so, tom. >> you've mentioned. >> the. >> danger of. the lack. of counsel. >> around president trump. what happens. >> if this war phases. >> out if. >> we. >> participate in. >> the bombing. >> and we think, okay. >> we've done our. >> job. >> is there? what's your. >> sense of our ability to. >> defend ourselves.

>> against the very. >> very excellent cyber. attack people who. >> come out. >> of iran. >> they really. >> know cyber. >> they know cyber warfare. >> honestly. >> mike, i think if the war were to go ahead, iran would be in disarray after this. i mean, if the war is going ahead, i mean, if we blow up all its nuclear facilities, they've they've been decapitated militarily. i think the biggest fear i have, what do we learn from all these middle east wars, from the decapitation of gadhafi, for instance, the decapitation of saddam hussein, that in the middle east, the alternative to autocracy is not democracy. it's very often disorder. okay. we'd like to think we get rid of a bad regime. a good one comes. that's not necessarily what happens here. we'd be very lucky if that happens. and it's the spread of disorder and trying to manage disorder spilling out from a giant country like iran, which i think would be the biggest diplomatic and security challenge from this and trying

to keep this place together. so it may be inevitable, it may be the necessary condition. but what was look what we were worried about with the collapse of the soviet union. you know, what was spreading? disorder. we got lucky because there was a gorbachev. could we get lucky in there emerge an iranian gorbachev. we might. absolutely. all i'm saying is, let's go about this in the most methodical way, because we're going to need the maximum help, the maximum legitimacy to manage what would be a giant mess after this. >> you know, it's such an extraordinarily important point. we always talk about what happens the day after a war, or as tom says, the day after the day after a war ends. tom's point here is so important. we need to be concerned here about what happens the days, the weeks before the war and building the legitimacy that's needed worldwide, globally. because this is not going to be a one and done operation. this is going to require buy in from our

allies and even those who don't consider themselves to be natural allies of the united states or israel. >> new york times columnist tom friedman, thank you very much. >> thank you. tom. >> tom. tom. >> go ahead. >> i want to say that my point in my column yesterday is that we need to pair two things. one is coercive diplomacy in the middle east, and the other is support for a palestinian-israeli peace process in gaza, because that's not over either. let's remember. and that also enhances our legitimacy if we're seen as pursuing both at the same time. >> agreed. >> don't forget ukraine. tom's latest piece, is available to read online right now. still ahead on morning joe. when president trump left the g7 summit earlier than planned yesterday, he also left behind a scheduled meeting with ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky. we're going to dig into what this could mean for kyiv as it continues to fend off attacks from russia. plus, we'll bring you the latest from capitol hill as the congressional budget office releases new estimates on

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>> say that that was a mistake. >> because i think you wouldn't have a war right now if you. >> had russia. >> in and you. >> wouldn't have a. >> war right now. if trump were president four years ago. >> that was president trump at the g7 in canada earlier this week, criticizing the decision to remove russia from the group of world powers. ukrainian president. >> of course they. >> did it. >> because they invaded crimea. >> they invaded. >> crimea because vladimir putin violated international treaty that everybody signed, saying that, you know, we were going to the whole world would defend ukraine's borders if they gave up their nuclear weapons. and of course, vladimir putin violated. that in 2014. >> trudeau. >> and so now, of course, another invasion savaging civilians in ukraine. and he's % putin and russia not being in

the g8. >> so ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky had hoped to use the gathering to win guarantees from the united states. but trump left the summit early to focus on escalations in the middle east before the two leaders were set to meet. the frustrations for ukraine are mounting as russia continues its deadly onslaught. joining us now, former u.s. ambassador to ukraine bridget brink, she resigned from her post last month, citing the administration's policy toward ukraine. and now she is running for u.s. congress in michigan as a democrat. so we want to talk about the war in ukraine. but let's start there with your new political ambitions. tell us why you are running for congress. madam ambassador. thanks so. >> much. mika and joe, for. having me on. >> it's great to be here. >> i have to say, i've dedicated

my entire life to serving our country, fighting for freedom and protecting democracy under five presidents over 28 years. and i was incredibly proud to do this job. >> every. >> single day. >> but the. policies of the trump. >> administration are not only. >> detrimental to our power and our influence overseas, they're also bad for us back home, including for michigan families in my home state. >> here in michigan. >> and because of. >> that. >> i am running for as a democrat. >> for. >> michigan's seventh district. and this is going to be. >> a key. >> battleground state. i think that the stakes are just. >> too high. >> and that we need leaders of. principle who are going to step up and go to washington and do the right thing. and i encourage supporters to join me at bridget brink.com. >> madam ambassador, good morning. well, to ask you a little bit. more about your race in. >> a second, but if we just the latest on. what you. see on. >> the situation there in the

war with ukraine, it does feel like the united states, to your point, continues to pull back from the conflict that the recent days there had been a working group within the white house looking to explore means of potentially punishing russia, turning up the pressure on moscow. that group has been disbanded. also, the us senate, which has a lot of support for really tough sanctions bill against russia and secondary sanctions for those who back russia, have tabled that, putting it on the back burner until not revisiting now until later in the summer. so with that vacuum, what dangers is it pose? >> well, this is. >> exactly why. i left my position. >> as u.s. ambassador to ukraine. >> i left a couple. >> months ago because. >> of. >> the pressure that. >> was. being put on our democratic ally. in response to putin's. >> terrible war of aggression in ukraine and letting russia off the hook. >> and i feel that the trump administration's. >> policy is one of. >> trying to solve the. >> problem by. >> appeasing russia.

>> and its. >> in its. demands to take over ukraine. >> but the problem. >> is, is that russia and putin. have a much bigger strategy and a much. >> bigger agenda. >> and it's not only to subjugate. >> ukraine, but. >> it's to divide. >> europe, threaten europe, and also undermine the united states. >> and so i believe that what we. >> need to do. >> is use muscular. diplomacy to try. >> to solve. >> this war, and to put pressure. >> on putin. >> to come to the table. and what we're doing is exactly the opposite. >> so, ambassador. >> brink, what. >> everything you just said was. >> totally accurate and the world sees it playing out each and every day as ukrainians die. >> each and. >> every night. >> under attack. >> from moscow. >> what do you figure the deal. >> is between. >> president trump. >> and vladimir putin? >> well. >> i. >> think actually the. >> deal should be. >> between russia. >> and ukraine. >> i think putin started. >> this war. >> and it can be finished, but it requires. >> us to put pressure. >> on putin. and that means more

sanctions, additional sanctions. i would love to see the. >> package that. >> is in. >> congress right now passed as quickly as possible. >> i think that gives. >> us more leverage. it gives the ukrainians more leverage. >> i also. >> think there needs to be continued military and intelligence assistance given to ukraine by us. >> but also. >> importantly, by our allies. and ukraine's friends. and we also need to get access. >> to the 300. >> billion. >> in russian sovereign assets that's just sitting in europe and could. >> be used. >> to buy weapons. u.s. weapons. >> to defend ukraine. and that could be something. >> that helps. >> ukraine defend itself also in future. so there is. >> a deal. >> to be had. but the first thing that needs to be solved is we need to support ukraine and provide guaranteed security for ukraine. that's what's going to bring 10 million displaced people. >> home, allow. >> ukraine to restart its economy and to move forward in a way that could be positive for not just ukraine, but the entire region. >> back to your political campaign, madame ambassador. how

much do you think. >> the. >> war in ukraine and the concept of support for ukraine will play in your campaign? do you think voters are engaged on supporting ukraine? >> well, what i hear. >> back home and i'm. >> now in lansing. >> michigan. >> is that people are actually most concerned. >> about. >> you know, what we call kitchen table issues. so it's basically the economy. >> it's prices. >> it's the effect that the. >> reckless tariffs are having. >> and raising prices. >> here, including a 24% increase. >> in baby. >> products in. >> the cost of baby. >> products for. >> new parents. it's things like how. >> and whether. >> the. >> budget that's currently moving through congress. >> is going to. >> affect people. who need health insurance. hundreds of thousands of people may. >> lose their health insurance if the current. >> budget goes through as is. and it's also this effect of the doge slash and burn. technique to make government more

efficient. but actually what it's done is just cut services to seniors, to. children and to veterans. and those are the kinds of things that people are. worried about every day. issues at the kitchen table. >> former u.s. ambassador to ukraine and candidate for congress now in michigan, bridget brink. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> thanks a lot. you know jonathan lemire. if i were a candidate running as a democrat in next year's election, i mean, timing is everything. i would, i would, i would and i remember i've had friends call me certain years. i had a republican friend call me in 2005 going, hey, i think i'm going to run in 2006. i said, don't do that. i've told democratic friends certain years they shouldn't run. next year should be a banner year for democrats running just because of not only because of historical trends, but because

republicans seem like they're not going to be able to help themselves. and passing the biggest, most bloated, bloated budget of all time that still manages to slash health care for americans. it still manages to slash research for cancer, research for alzheimer's, research, for parkinson's research that that the united states has led the world in research r&d for. i could go down the laundry list of it. and yet there is a dnc fight going on right now that shows, despite all the opportunities democrats like the ambassador has, democrats just can't help themselves. they can't get out of their own way. they are now. they they have a civil war going on at the dnc. and it just strikes me as absolute madness. and i've got to say, the new dnc chair seems to be like wringing his hands and seems incapable of

bringing these sides together. and there's fighting from all sides, union leaders leaving, david hogg leading. you go down the list. it looks like absolute chaos when actually the stars are aligning for a great year for democrats next year. >> yeah. >> all really. >> good points. we've had the civil war, the dnc, david hogg, ken martin, the chair there, randi weingarten, other union leaders leaving. there's audio of martin, you know, saying that, you know, he's captured on audio saying he's not sure he wants to do the job anymore. he is not he's pushed back on that. but there's a lot of chaos in the organization, but also still a lot of soul searching and hand-wringing within the party that is still trying to pick up the pieces from november. and we have seen polls that suggest, look, president trump and republicans, their approval rating has sunk, well, democrats just as bad. so you're right, there is. >> a there. >> is a real. window here because of this legislation that's working its way through congress, because of perhaps some of president trump's

decisions overseas, because of what we saw in terms of deploying the military on the streets of american city ice agents, the like, you can go down the list. there's no shortage of things for democrats to run on. but at least right now, at least right now, they haven't been able to, you know, kind of get out of their own way. now. we'll see. there's plenty of time between now and november and 2026. we'll see what candidates step forward. we will. there's time for that to change. but this is the moment. it feels like it's a party that's still completely in crisis. >> you know, mike, a lot of times when you're running a political campaign, it's like you're standing at the plate and you've got a guy that can throw a 99 mile an hour fastball high and follow it up with like an 82 mile an hour sweeper right down low here for democrats. republicans said, here's the tea, and we're going to put a big softball wiffle ball. and here's a bat the size of your.

>> head. >> and you hit it. and democrats can't do it. no, no they can't. they can't. not right now. mike. mike, you've been around democratic leaders for a very long time. what is wrong with this democratic party, this organized democratic party? why? in the face of all the things that are happening, why do they have the lowest approval rating they have ever had? >> because they all assembled. together in washington, >> d.c. >> those democrats. >> if you go out to the country. >> and look at. >> democratic governors. >> democratic legislators in various states. you'll see a different. >> democratic party. you'll see people fighting back, you'll see people organizing protests. you saw. >> the. >> huge reaction this weekend. >> millions of people. >> 5 million. people around the country. >> parading against donald. >> trump and. >> the. >> military parades and all of that. >> and they were largely led. by

local. >> democrats, state democrats, from state to. >> state to state. >> washington dc. forget it. they are hopeless. >> there you go. all right. speaking of democratic governors, maura healey of massachusetts discussed the impact of president trump's tariffs with several canadian premiers this week. she joins us straight ahead with a look at the economic partnership she's hoping to secure. morning joe. >> will be. >> right back. >> it's your ice versus mine. >> one free afternoon. >> one free afternoon. >> under my belt. >> the chances have. >> what? the hotel. >> and only $250. >> a. >> night for my favorite fight. what, you didn't. >> check trivago? >> i got mine for 155. >> check trivago to compare prices and save up to 40%.

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dream. >> find your fit at where? pepper comm. >> 15 seconds. >> gustav forsling holds. >> the panthers. >> begin to celebrate. panther perfection. >> the florida panthers win their second consecutive. stanley cup. >> the florida. panthers big, physical. >> fast, maybe a little dirty, and maybe a burgeoning dynasty. they are now back to back stanley cup champions, securing the title on home ice last night with a51 win over the edmonton oilers in game six, sam reinhart scored four goals to clinch it

for the panthers, becoming just the sixth nhl player and the first since 1957. with that many in a game during the stanley cup final. sam bennett earned the honors for playoff mvp after a league high 15 goals this postseason, and the panthers won their rematch against the oilers to become the nhl's third repeat champion in the last decade. former bruins brad marchand also had a great playoff. so, joe, the florida panthers, i mean, they're the best in the sport. the last couple of years they made they've made the finals three years in a row. they've won two. you know, they've got good fans down there in south florida. and canada's run of disappointment continues. it's a remarkable statistic. the country that birthed this sport, the oilers, had the best player in the world, connor mcdavid. but they've lost in the finals two straight years now and canada has not won a championship. they have not won a cup since 1993. >> yeah. you know, you are right about florida fans. i mean it is it is surprising. i mean it

sports world comes to a stop for a hockey team. yeah it plays around fort lauderdale. it is it is a sight to see. but mike barnicle i'm a grumpy old man. when i was growing up, it was the canadians. it was the bruins. it was the maple leafs, it was the blackhawks. it was the rangers. it was the red wings. i mean, come on, man, like vegas, florida. i mean, you know, i remember being shocked in the early 90s when anaheim was was winning stanley i mean, it it was it was a stretch when the islanders the islanders have a team instead of the rangers. it is i mean, it has really i mean and now canada, 32 years since they've won. and the canadians, man, they were such a dominant force in hockey. but no more. >> no. well we're a long ways

from the. original six joe. and you. just outlined who the original. >> six teams were. >> it was a great league then. >> it's a better. >> league now. and one of the best teams ever assembled. the florida panthers have. >> two cups. >> in a row and. >> as. >> jonathan indicated. >> they were. >> playing against. >> a team led. >> by connor mcdavid, a. generational player in hockey. >> and what. >> happened in this series. >> according to. >> my eye, watching it in game four. >> they won the series. >> because they. >> forced the. >> edmonton oilers. >> to change. >> their game. >> and. >> try to. >> compete with. >> florida in. >> terms of toughness. >> speed, skill. >> and. >> fooling around. >> you know. >> i mean, banging players. >> around. >> taking penalties. and edmonton tried to play. florida's game and they. >> never, ever recovered. >> yeah it's crazy. and of course, speaking of this rivalry between the united states and canada and hockey also in trade. there's and there are two ways to do. >> it, a different dynamic. >> there are two ways to do it. you can do it the donald trump way and try to fight canada at

its own game. or you can do it the way the governor of massachusetts has been. >> doing it. right. let's get to that. president trump met with canadian prime minister mark carney on monday during the g7 summit. the two leaders reportedly committed to pursuing a trade deal within the next month. also on monday, democratic governor maura healey of massachusetts hosted a meeting in boston with other governors from the northeast and canadian premiers for their own strategic talks. and governor healey joins us now. maura, it's great to see you. so tell us about these conversations and what you hope to accomplish. >> yeah. well. >> great to be with you. and i. >> just want to say brad marchand, the. >> boston bruin. also nova scotian from. >> canada. >> now a. >> stanley cup winner once again. >> so not. >> all. >> is lost for. >> our canadian friends. >> you know, look, this this is this this is.

>> serious stuff. >> you know. >> everyone knows that. canada is. >> our. >> greatest trading partner. >> and that's. >> certainly true. >> in the northeast. >> and. >> you know, given what. >> donald trump was doing with. >> tariffs and other things, i. >> thought it was. >> important to get. >> a group of us together. so i invited governor. >> hochul from new. >> york, the. >> other new england. >> governors. >> to meet. >> with canadian premiers in. >> boston the other. day to. >> talk about how we can move forward with. >> our own. >> relationships, our. >> own partnerships. >> around trade. >> around energy supply. >> around tourism, for example. and so we had a. >> really good conversation. in boston. we're going. >> to continue that. >> it was a it was. >> important that to. >> me that we. >> affirm canada is an. ally here. >> and we are. >> stronger working together. >> i hope. >> and would. >> hope that. >> donald trump cleans. >> up the mess he. made and. >> reaches a deal with mark. >> carney. but in the interim. >> we can't. wait and we. >> need to. >> do. >> everything that we can as governors.

>> to make sure. >> that that. >> relationship is. >> made stronger. >> and that. >> we're working. >> to protect. >> our residents and our businesses. >> and our local economies. >> so. so, governor, speaking of local economies, i heard governors from florida to maine, business leaders, excuse me, and community leaders from florida to maine, very concerned about the loss of canadian tourism. i know of several people from canada who have left florida, sold their homes, sold their condos, moved out of florida and gone back to canada. i'm curious, is massachusetts feeling right now in any sting from from from some of the back and forth between president trump and canada over the past six months? what's happening with tourism? is it slowing down for you like it is for other states? >> absolutely, absolutely.

>> and joe, that. >> was the consensus of. >> all the governors. >> we've seen. >> a drop in our. >> states of between 20. >> and 60%, 20. >> and 60%. >> drop in canadian tourism in our states alone. and we're. >> only in june. >> so that's really devastating. >> you know. >> i. >> i also know. >> that canadian flights. >> people into and. >> out. >> of boston. >> from canada. >> are also down. >> we've heard the stories about florida. >> this is a. >> serious issue. >> for us. >> and. >> you know. >> it's real. the feeling on the. part of canadians, you know, that took. >> tremendous offense. >> of course. >> to. >> being labeled. >> the 51st. >> state by. >> our president. >> are making decisions. >> to spend. >> their tourism dollars elsewhere. so part of what we were trying to do the. other day, joe, is just to say, hey. >> you know, we're. >> still open for business. >> remember. >> we're. your friends. >> were your neighbors. >> we have. >> such. >> close cultural and familial ties with. >> the canadians here in the. >> northeast, and we wanted to do everything. >> that we could. >> to cement that.

>> but that's a big problem. >> tourism is a huge problem economically. >> i'll tell you. >> the other issue. >> we're trying to build housing here in the northeast. >> all of our lumber. >> comes from canada. >> the tariffs are. >> raising the. >> cost of. >> building housing in. my state and in. >> states around the northeast. and the. last point. >> on energy, what he's. >> done with tariffs. >> we estimate. >> that people's home. heating and. >> gas bills are going to go up an. >> additional $2.5 billion over the next. >> few years. >> that's what folks in new. >> england are going to. >> be forced to pay. >> donald trump. >> is taxing us an additional $2.5 billion with his canadian. tariffs on energy alone. and so, you know, serious. >> economic consequences. for our residents, for our businesses and. >> for the. >> regional economy. >> so, governor, what. impact is all of that had on massachusetts. >> business. >> if any, that plus. >> immigration rates in the state of massachusetts. >> affecting employment? what impact has it had?

>> yeah. >> well, look, you know. >> mike, i'm somebody. >> who. >> grew up. >> waitressing on a, on a at a coastal. >> coastal town. >> and i could. >> tell you the. >> hits. to hospitality. >> in massachusetts hotels. >> restaurants. >> numbers are. down with. >> canadian visits dropping. >> and that. >> means we're looking. >> at. >> lost jobs as. servers and. >> staff get. get laid off because, you know, they're. >> not. >> bringing in what they did. that kind of thing. >> hurts a lot. >> the you talk to suppliers. >> i convened. >> a number of. >> our manufacturers. >> recently around the state. and, you know, you think about a lot. >> of the materials. >> and raw. >> materials that come from. >> canada. >> aluminum, for example. we've got. >> a big craft beer industry here. >> where do. >> you. think our cans come from? this hurts. >> and people are. >> seeing the consequences both in. >> terms of, you know. >> end users. consumers paying. >> more for. >> these goods, but. >> also these. >> companies can't. >> make it. >> work with. the cost. >> of their. >> supplies increasing. >> they just can't make the. >> math work. and that means.

layoffs here in massachusetts. >> and around the region. and. >> you know, it's just so. >> the thing, the thing. >> that's so. >> upsetting is. >> you know, we've got any. >> number of things we're. >> trying to manage. >> in the. >> world and. >> and deal with. especially as. >> governors right now. >> with this big. >> awful. >> terrible bill out. >> there that's. >> going to gut, you. >> know, funding. >> for nursing homes and. >> our rural hospitals. >> and then to have to deal with a. president who is effectively put a tax on all of our businesses, all of our residents and consumers. through these tariffs, by the way, with our. >> best friend and. >> ally. >> you know. >> it just it's ludicrous. so as governors, we figured let's see what. >> we can do. >> let's see what we can work out. for our own. deals and our own relationships. you know, what can we do. to have a. >> cable come from. >> the north and. eastern canadian provinces down into new england, to bring us the energy that we need. >> you. >> know. >> how can we work out deals around tourism and trade, even if, you know, the president can't get his act together with

with the prime minister? this is this is the attitude i think we need to have right. >> now. >> because we've got to forge ahead and make things work for our residents and make things. >> work for our local economies. >> right. it is so important and it's so important to have a positive attitude. and speaking of positive attitudes and trade, i want to get you thrown into the middle of the biggest controversy in boston. right now. we're the red sox. did they make the right move in trading? rafi differs to san francisco. >> i was. >> sorry to see rafi. >> devers go. you know, it reminds me of. >> mookie betts a few years ago. michael. remember this? you know. >> we. >> were. >> red sox fans, red sox nation. we always, always hope for the best. and you know, they've got months to go and a lot of games to play. we need bregman back and healthy. >> so you know. >> go. >> go sox. but devers. >> is a great player and i appreciate the contributions.

>> he. >> made here. >> how's that all right. >> maybe we'll. >> see you at a game. democratic governor maura healey of massachusetts, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. >> great to be. >> with you. >> thank you so much. and i, mike barnicle, speaking of raffy devers, raffy made no new fans in new england when he went out to san francisco and joyfully said, i'll play any position you want me to play. and then we keep hearing about big papi saying, tried to help him try to. he wouldn't even return my phone calls. yeah, don't show that. i don't want to see that. no, take that down. take that down. i don't want to see that. if you want to show the yankees losing yet again, i will look at that video. but not not not of devers. but mike, i'm serious

here. i mean, the fact that raffy devers said that cora and to john henry, i will never play first base for the boston red sox. and then he goes out there yesterday joyfully saying, i'll play wherever you want me to play. i think that just about says everything you need to know. on why he's playing on the west coast now. well, he's. >> working out at first base, and i would not be surprised if he were at first base on friday night when. >> the. >> red sox come to san francisco to play the giants. and the question i have, if that happens, if raffy is at first base, his first at bat. jonathan, do you hit him? do you throw at him? >> i mean, that would we know baseball. >> players don't love distractions. >> that would create a. >> firestorm for days. i my guess would be no, but we'll see. but it is this quirk of the scheduling. jamaica. the fact that we will see devers so soon. he might be playing first base. and he did have two hits last night in his giants debut.

>> okay. >> up next we're going to bring you an update on the legal fight for control over the california national guard. as the pentagon prepares to send more troops to los angeles. and new polling shows a somewhat tighter race in the new york city mayoral democratic primary race. with less than a week before election day. morning joe is coming right back. >> toe fungus is tough to kill. and it can spread. >> it's time to start using funky nail. >> maximum strength. funky nail is so powerful it cures and prevents fungal infections. plus it has. insurify. itat insurify we make it easy >> aloe and tea tre to cut your car insurance bill in half. half? how? just go to insurify.com and compare dozens of quotes in a few clicks. cut out the middleman, so you can cut your bill in half. go to insurify.com and and save up to 50% on your car insurance. it all started with a small business idea. it's a pillow with a speaker in it!

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>> all right, welcome back. a few minutes before the top of the hour. new polling points to a two person race in the democratic primary for new york city mayor. former governor andrew cuomo has the lead, but assemblyman zoran mamdani has closed the gap significantly. the survey shows 38% of likely voters plan to put cuomo first on their ranked choice ballots. that's compared to 27% for mamdani. the polls simulation shows cuomo would beat mamdani by ten percentage points in the seventh round of balloting to win the nomination. in this ranked choice voting. jonathan. >> yes, jonathan. talk us through this. obviously, the assemblyman is considered by many to be far left of center and not what the democrats need right now. but there are others who say the same thing of andrew cuomo. where does this put us?

if the assemblyman wins the primary? >> yeah. mamdani no question is closing strong here. yes. he is far to the left of others in the field. real concerns about his experience. he's only 33. you know, he he would bring a pretty thin resume to the table, but there's energy there. cuomo of course, the former governor, but resigned amidst a number of scandals. he's pushing for a more moderate approach to governing. standing up to trump. trump trying to bring more competency back to the race. it is to the city, i should say. election is tuesday. the wild card here is what happened yesterday. we talked about it briefly earlier. brad lander, the city comptroller, as well as a mayoral candidate arrested by masked ice agents at an immigration court. does that provide him with some last bit of momentum? perhaps. he's all over the headlines today. we will, of course, be covering it. still ahead here on morning joe, we switch gears and the federal reserve meets today and it's expected to hold interest rates steady. we'll check in with cnbc's dom chu for how wall street is reacting to that.

plus, we'll bring you a live report from israel as the idf continues to trade fire with tehran. while iran's supreme leader warns against any leader warns against any involvement from the united ♪ limu emu and doug ♪ ♪(melancholic music)♪ looks like we've told people liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need ... for the last time. goodbye, my friend. huh. i thought it was deeper than that. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty ♪ at&t business, we guarantee our best deals on any smartphone with your choice of our best plans. what we can't guarantee...your employees having a similar work style. you hired them. or your staff all having the same vibe... i like their style. and your design team being on the same page?

bold choice... for 2002. gasp! what at&t does guarantee: our best deals on any smartphone with your choice of our best plans for any employee...and we mean any. (mnemonic) threats to your organization? >> hi. so no one knows that means. >> what's happening. >> just explain. i want to help secure digital identity. keep it simple. like what? like when delivering. >> a fresh uniform. >> or viewing your results. >> yeah. it's bad. >> or making brad. swoon at the high school reunion. >> oh, i love that color. whoo! that was a lot. >> oh, there's more, like, lots more. >> good morning, and welcome to morning joe. it is wednesday, june 18th. we have a lot to get to this morning as the situation in the middle east continues to escalate, with israel's military

announcing overnight it struck a centrifuge production site in tehran. we'll bring you a live report from the region in just a moment. this all comes as president trump is weighing his options on the growing conflict. we'll go through the new reporting on how and why the president's perspective on iran has shifted over the past week. meanwhile, new analysis of the president's massive spending and tax bill is revealing more issues with its fiscal impact. plus, we'll show you the big moments from democratic senator alex padilla. speech on the senate floor yesterday in response to being detained last week. tackled by dhs. handcuffed agents. with us, we have the co-host of our fourth hour contributing writer at the atlantic, jonathan lemire. nbc news national affairs analyst and a partner in chief. political columnist at puck. john heilemann, columnist and associate editor for the washington post. david ignatius is back with us this morning,

and former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense jeremy bash is here also with us. us national editor at the financial times and loose. and we'll get right started right now is israel and iran trade fire for the sixth straight day. president trump is calling for iran's, quote, unconditional surrender. he made the comment in a truth social post yesterday, shortly after meeting with the national security council in the situation room. the president claimed the us knows exactly where iran's supreme leader is hiding, writing, quote, he is an easy target. we are not going to take him out, at least not for now. but we don't want missiles shot at civilians or american soldiers. our patience is wearing thin. videos posted on social media show huge lines of bumper to bumper traffic as people stream out of the iranian capital this week. there was also gridlock at gas stations.

multiple current and former administration officials tell nbc news. the president is now considering a variety of options, including launching a possible strike on iran. this comes as israel wants the united states to drop its largest bunker busting bomb on a nuclear site that's deep underground. a white house official tells nbc news the president has spoken with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. no other details were provided so far. it all comes as israel's military says it struck a centrifuge production site in tehran, along with several weapons manufacturing facilities, part of the ongoing exchange of fire between israel and iran. missiles continue to be intercepted over tel aviv by israel's iron dome defense system overnight. the civilian death toll in israel now stands at 24, according to officials

there in iran. strikes continue throughout the day and into the night, with a large explosion reported just before dawn today. state media says at least 224 people have been killed since last friday, and as the two sides exchange fire, there are signs iran is scaling back its attacks on israel. the new york times reports it could be part strategy, part necessity. while israel strikes have diminished iran's ability to hit back, the islamic republic may also be making a deliberate shift toward lower intensity attacks sustained over a longer period. at the same time, israel is reportedly running low on a key piece of weaponry that intercepts long range ballistic missiles, a us official says the pentagon has been aware of the capacity problems for months. it raises concerns about israel's

ability to shield its population centers if the conflict isn't resolved soon. >> david. yeah. >> i'm sorry. brings us all up to date. >> yeah, thank you for that. and, david ignatius, i'm curious about your latest reporting and obviously the one word, two letter word that everybody focused on yesterday for good reason was the word we when donald trump talked about. we have control over the skies of iran, over tehran. what's your latest reporting? is the president moving towards bringing america into this war with israel against iran? joe. i think. >> from the language coming out of the white house, what we know about. >> the. >> meetings that are taking place, there's no question that that president trump is on the edge of making what would be a very consequential decision. to use u.s. military force in this conflict. this is not an in and out, one and done kind of intervention to join the war at

this late date really does mean. >> you're. >> going to be involved in trying to obliterate the essence of, of rule by ayatollah ali khamenei and in a sense, share. >> responsibility for. >> what comes after. from the beginning of this, joe, there has been concern among u.s. officials that israel can start a war against iran, but it can't finish it without u.s. help. that's something that bothered president trump back in february, when prime minister netanyahu first began proposing the kinds of attacks that we've seen beginning last, last friday. and trump was was wary of being drawn into something that he wasn't sure was was required. he thought that maybe diplomacy could accomplish the same. but this issue that in the end there would be this deep, deep underground iranian facility at fordo, south of tehran, that could only be taken

out where iranians keep many of their most sophisticated centrifuges, could only be taken out by a u.s. weapon, the so-called massive ordnance trainer. that that would penetrator would require american intervention. and we're now on the edge of that. as i said at the beginning. but trump seems still uncertain what he wants, what he wants to do, how to make up his mind. he should be uncertain. it's a big, big choice. one of the most consequential of his presidency. right? >> well, and you know, jonathan amir, you obviously have been reporting out of the white house over the past 24 hours. some of the divides inside trump's own coalition. and part of the reason there's a divide inside of donald trump's own coalition is there's been a divide, it seems internally with donald trump over the past 20 years. he's been talking for 20 years about how george w bush made a mistake going into iraq. it's one of the things he constantly talked about on the campaign trail. and if somebody thinks

that attacking iraq and then dealing with the aftermath is difficult, try iran. that's i mean, my god, that's not that's not stating anything but the facts. i mean, what an absolute what an absolute complicated mess that would be, not just humanitarian but strategic. the warnings we've heard for years about the possibility of terrorism spawning off of that. i'm curious, where is donald trump right now and how does this line up with what he's been saying about the united states getting involved in middle eastern wars over the past 20 years, and how he's always thought those wars were mistakes? >> yeah, it feels like so long ago. but one of the animating principles of his 2015 2016 campaign was to was to be sharply critical of these forever wars, iraq and afghanistan, and say he would not do the same, that he did not want further american

intervention in the middle east because of how inevitably messy and prolonged it would be. he now seems to be on the brink of doing just that. and right now, from people i've talked to inside the building and just outside close trump allies, all the signs, all the momentum is pointing one way, which is the u.s. getting involved fully. but that has not happened yet. and we know that during president trump's first term, both two separate times in 2019 and 2020, he was on the brink of real escalation of using u.s. forces, u.s. weaponry on iran, and both times held back. so there is a chance here he could again, this could just be a negotiating tactic. we know as of a week ago that was his hope to bluster, to use the threat of american force to get iran back to the negotiating table. he does seem, though, the events of the last few of the last week or so being pushed along by prime minister netanyahu, who has who has convinced him that iran is close to a weapon. now, i will say u.s. intelligence does not agree

with that assessment. they do not believe that iran is on the brink of that. and, jeremy bash, that is where we are right now. and because if president trump gives the go ahead, if they do this, my understanding is to use these bunker busting bombs. it's not just a b-2. it's not just an american bomb. it would need to be an american aircraft, and an american pilot needed to deliver them, which would mean this would be an american strike. we'd be all in. walk us through this calculation. >> so for the last ten years or so, jonathan, the u.s. and israel have been discussing how to destroy, dismantle, degrade the underground enrichment facility at fordow, outside of the city of qom. this is a deep, buried underground facility with cascades spinning centrifuges that are enriching uranium and that can be enriched to what the iaea said last week was 60%, which is approaching bomb grade fuel. now that cascade hall is too small to power a civilian

energy program for the iranian people, it is really a facility that's kind of tailor made for a weapons program, and the u.s. has had its eye on that facility for many years. we've engaged in several operations, including sabotage operations to go after it. but of course, that facility still exists. and you're right, jonathan, the only way to access it would be through a b-2 stealth bomber, which is based out of whiteman air force base in missouri. the pilots will have to fly a round trip mission all the way there, getting, gaining, aerial refueling and carrying that 30,000 pound massive ordnance penetrator. there's really no scenario in which we would give the plane to another country or let other countries pilots fly it. and so this is kind of squarely the president's call. i would just say, jonathan, on the intelligence, you know, yes, you're right that u.s. intelligence has said we're not close. we do not believe that iran is close. i think you said we're close or on the brink of having a weapon, but let's just be precise. they suspended a weaponization program, but we

have seen them enriching to higher levels necessary than civilian fuel. we've seen the program dispersed. we've seen an extensive iranian nuclear program all over the country. and if you kind of take just kind of take a big step back and say, look, israel destroyed osirak the iraqi reactor in 1981. it destroyed al khobar, the syrian reactor, in 2007, in a post october 7th world israel and any country really can't kind of wait for threats to gather and kind of wait till we're on the brink of having a nuclear weapon. this defensive, preemptive action by israel does make logical sense. the question really is how much will the united states become involved? >> all right. >> let's go straight to israel. joining us now from israel, just south of tel aviv is nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. richard, what are you seeing there? >> well, let me just start by. >> describing the site where i am right now. i am just. >> south of tel aviv, as you mentioned. this is where one of. >> the. >> iranian ballistic. missiles

landed a couple of days ago. >> but there. is still an active. >> search and rescue. operation here. >> at least. six people. >> were killed. >> in the initial strike. >> and. >> rescue workers have recovered another. >> two. >> bodies, bringing the death toll so far. to eight. in just. >> this just this attack. and let me just step out of camera for a second. >> you can get a. >> sense. >> of. >> the extent. >> of the damage. >> this bomb landing right in the middle. >> this missile, i. >> should say, right in the. >> middle of a residential area, shearing off the side of the apartment. >> building. >> obliterating all of. >> the buildings. >> around it. >> actually, when you look. >> at it. >> it's quite surprising that the death toll was relatively low. considering this city is still full. there are. >> no evacuation orders. >> in place. >> there is a semi. >> state of emergency where people are. >> told to. >> stay near shelters. >> they're told not to. >> congregate. >> but people are. >> not evacuating. this city. >> despite what was a. >> threat by. >> iran for israelis to. >> to, for. >> their. >> own safety. >> get out of this country.

>> but i must say that over the last 24 hours or so, there have been. >> more iranian barrages. >> but they. >> are not. >> that we saw. >> in the. >> first days. >> there are still. >> barrages. but not. >> hundreds of ballistic missiles at a time, not hundreds per day even. instead, last night there were. >> two batches fired. >> more or less back to. >> back. >> about 15 minutes apart, and each one only had about a dozen missiles in it. nearly all of them were shot down. the israeli. >> military is systematically taking. >> out iran's. >> military capabilities. its nuclear program. it's its fighter jets, its launch sites. and now we. >> are there's this open. >> question will. >> the united states. >> get involved? >> and president trump issued. that ultimatum of calling for an unconditional surrender. >> iran's supreme leader. >> has said. >> that unconditional. >> surrender is. >> effectively out. >> of. >> the question. he issued. >> some some bellicose.

statements on x. >> saying that the war. >> is only. >> beginning and that israel and that. >> iran will. >> show. no mercy. but the real. >> question. >> is. >> do they have the capacity to do. >> much. >> more than they are already doing? >> so. >> richard, if you could describe the domestic debate right now or the opposition, the support for this all out war against iran inside of israel, but also about any discussions, debate about the united states becoming involved. where do the israeli people seem to be on this? >> i would say at this stage, most israelis seem to be behind this conflict. once iran. >> started launching ballistic missiles. creating scenes of devastation like this in the in the heart of tel aviv and in in the surrounding suburbs like i am right now, a lot of israelis pulled together. we're not. >> seeing the same. >> kind of anti-netanyahu. >> protests on the streets that we did even a few.

>> weeks. >> even a few. >> months ago. instead, israelis. >> seem to say that. >> this is a war. >> that they had no choice but. >> to. >> but to but to launch that. that it is. >> better to. >> fight against iran now while it is weak, than wait for it to have a nuclear weapon. so yes, of course, israel, israeli society is divided. it's divided socially, it's divided politically, but there are no protests. >> and when we're talking to. >> people on the streets, most of. >> them seem behind the operation. >> all right. >> nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel, as always, thank you so much. and you look at reaction around the world and especially in europe, we did have german chancellor merkel come out saying that israel is doing the dirty work, the hard work for the rest of us. other european leaders seemed a bit more reserved in their support for the united states getting involved. or is israel's actions in iran give

us, give us a reaction that you're picking up across europe, in the world? >> well, i think, you know, they're all calling for restraint. the british, the french, they, of course, have just been in the g7 meeting in alaska that donald trump left early. but they're they're fairly peripheral to this situation. i think far more interesting is russia's relative restraint on this. they like the fact that the focus has shifted from ukraine to the middle east, even though iran is really a protege of russia's. putin hasn't been robust in support of iran. he hasn't been providing it with the weapons it's been asking for since it's been really exposed over the last few months, and is indicating that he's not going to get in the way of whatever trump is up to in the middle, middle east. this is a different kind of relationship, of course, to the one that he had with biden. but

ultimately, i think there's real skepticism about netanyahu's grounds for launching this war on iran right now. they the europeans, british, i know, have similar intelligence to what the american intelligence agencies have been saying, which that is, that iran is not moved dramatically closer to break out nuclear situation, that it was a few months ago. there is this view, and i think it's pretty well grounded that netanyahu stays in power because of war and that he's run out of road with gaza. there's been a real growing backlash internationally, but also at home. former prime ministers like ehud olmert criticizing his conduct of war in gaza and that there was some nervousness by netanyahu that trump's talks with iran, that steve witkoff negotiations there in the region with iran might be might be

coming close to some kind of a deal, a deal that trump pulled out of in his first term. and that, of course, would would have shut off netanyahu's ability to conduct an operation like this. so i think the view is that this is a war of choice and a war that is essentially sabotaging any, any negotiations that that trump was planning to continue with iran. a lot of skepticism about the grounds for this war. >> all right, everybody, stand by. coming up, we're going to bring in new york times investigative reporter mark mazzetti, talking about how trump. has shifted on this issue. also, the very interesting developments. between the relationship between donald trump and his dni director tulsi gabbard, as he flatly rejects her assessment of flatly rejects her assessment of an overall situation here. w pronamel clinical enamel strength can help us to keep our enamel for a lifetime.

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the anti-war wing of. his party. maybe he'll listen to the anti-war wing of his own administration, like tulsi gabbard. >> his own director. >> of national intelligence. >> tulsi gabbard, testified in march that the intelligence. >> community said. iran wasn't building a nuclear weapon. >> what she said, i think they were very close to having one. >> this is the benefit. >> of appointing unqualified. crazy people to your team. >> you can always be.

>> like, do you know how crazy and unqualified she is? i don't care. >> what she said. >> that's a clip from the daily show on president trump blowing off tulsi gabbard, his own director of national intelligence. politico is reporting on the tensions between the two, stemming in part from gabbard's recent social media post warning about nuclear annihilation. according to politico, quote, trump saw the unauthorized video and became incensed, complaining to associates at the white house that she had spoken out of turn. trump reportedly saw it as an audacious attempt to steer him toward her anti interventionist approach to foreign policy. >> it was a bizarre thing to do, obviously, a bizarre thing to do, especially if you hadn't spoken with the president who appointed you, and the president whose administration you work for. i mean, look at it just seriously, john heilemann, i

will say, is bizarre as that video was. it really does underline the divide, the great divide down the middle of donald trump's maga base, you know, 2003, the closest parallel, obviously, the invasion of iraq. you had republicans marching lockstep step not only in congress, but also outside of congress, behind george w bush's decision to go into iraq. not so here. talk about the divide in the maga base and also how that divide rose out of donald trump opposing, flatly opposing in the campaigns of 2016, 20, 20 and 20 for this type of intervention and wars in the middle east. >> well, right, joe. i mean. >> first of all, if you're going to. >> in. >> a conventional administration. >> if you're a senior official and you want to try to influence the president's thinking, you generally don't want to leave fingerprints, right? so you you have those. you go on background

as a senior official or a source familiar in the new york times. you don't put out a highly produced video. >> with your with. >> speaking straight to camera. >> weighing in and speaking straight to camera, basically saying if the president does this, he's going to lead us to world war three, right? traditional move inside of any administration. >> yes, it looks more like. >> a democratic. >> attack ad than it looks like than a than some part of a product of internal debate inside the trump administration. so tulsi gabbard may be on thin ice there because trump does not like to have his him to feel like he's been boxed in by people who work for him. you are right though. you know what she is representing. there is a point of view is the point of view of tucker carlson, the point of marjorie taylor greene, the point of view of steve bannon, the point of view of charlie kirk. a lot of very powerful people in donald trump, particularly. >> in the. >> media sphere, but not wholly. >> in. >> the media sphere of donald trump's base on the maga. right. and then you have obviously, this much larger, more traditional piece, largely in the in the legislative branch.

people like lindsey graham would be the poster child for those who think that the united states should get involved here. and yes, it is true that trump has throughout not just on the iraq question, but throughout. one of his proudest talking points has always been. no wars. i didn't get us. >> into any. >> wars in my first term. i will not. get us. >> into. >> any wars in our second term. he has very been very powerful. he has a place where the maga base is in fact connected to a broader american public, which is in fact sick of forever wars and does feel as though the u.s. has been has often made costly mistakes getting involved in these kinds of conflicts. but trump is a man of absolutes, joe. >> as. >> you know. >> he loves. >> to be able to say things like, we've gotten to know wars, but. >> he also. >> is on record for a long time saying iran must not have a nuclear weapon. >> and that's. >> where we get to this conflict. >> trump normally. >> takes an. absolute position where he feels safe. that there won't be another absolutist position that he has raised that will conflict with it. >> now he. >> is being. told by by many

that those two things are in opposition, that he's going to have to get involved actively in this war if he's going to accomplish the other absolute that he's pledged to, which is iran. >> not. >> getting a nuclear weapon. now, i know the intelligence is murky on this, but this is the kind of situation trump hates where two absolute promises he's made are in conflict, and i have no idea where he's. >> going to. >> come down in the end. he's under a lot of pressure from both sides, though. jonathan. >> yeah he is. and i wrote on this today. let's remember back in 2020 after the soleimani strike. you talk about the divide in the media. you could go on fox. back then at 8:00 tucker carlson was talking through trump through the television saying, don't do this, don't retaliate. and then at 9:00, sean hannity, a much more hawkish view suggesting this might be the moment to strike on tehran. trump, close to both men, spoke to both men privately as well as watch the show, eventually sided with carlson. didn't escalate this time around. it feels a little different. john is right in this divide, the maga base. i've written about it for today. carlson. though trump is called a kook, he doesn't seem to be listening to carlson. he seems to be leaning more towards the

hawkish viewpoint. and also joe mika, at this moment where it seems like israel is going full force anyway, trump wants to associate himself with their success. >> coming up, we'll go live to cnbc for what's driving the day on wall street. here's a live look at the markets as investors keep a close eye on the fighting overseas and a looming fed decision here at home. business before the bell straight ahead before the bell straight ahead on morning joe. eczema... isn't always obvious. eczema isn't always red, but now eczema isn't always going to stop you, with ebglyss. ebglyss is a once monthly treatment to help those with moderate to severe eczema find real itch relief and real results. like skin that's still more clear at one year. don't use if you're allergic to ebglyss.

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new york times, mark mazzetti. he is coauthor of the new piece entitled how trump shifted on iran under pressure from israel. >> so, mark, walk us through it, if you will. we started talking about it. walk us through it. >> well. >> as david. >> ignatius pointed out earlier. this show. >> the you know, netanyahu, as we know, has. >> been pushing for years, decades. >> for the united states to join an israeli attack against iran's. nuclear facilities and ultimately, several. american presidents. >> decided that. >> he was bluffing, because if the united states was not going to join, he would not start the war for several reasons. >> hezbollah had. >> thousands of missiles in southern lebanon that iran could use to retaliate. the iranian missile program seemed incredibly capable. israel didn't have access to over syrian airspace and iranian

airspace. >> well, a lot of that. changed in the fall, where. >> hezbollah was largely knocked out. the syrian. regime fell. the iranian missile capability seemed less than previously thought. so that led netanyahu to a position of greater. leverage. he could push the new american president to say, basically, i'm going to. start this war, and it may be a fait accompli that you have to join once i've started. so the leverage change, and i think trump began to see that late may, american intelligence agencies assessed. >> that netanyahu. >> was likely going to launch an attack with or without the united states. and then it became a decision for trump about, well, would he join? and that's kind of obviously where we are now. and this idea of israel being. >> able to. >> start a war, but not being able to finish a war remains because the united states still has the capabilities that israel doesn't have these bunker buster bombs to hit facilities. the

central sort of core of the iranian nuclear program. and so, in many ways, netanyahu is kind of boxed trump in on this. >> mark. >> this david ignatius in. washington as a superb piece of reporting. >> this morning. >> in in the times. i want to ask you whether in your reporting, you get any sense of whether u.s. or israeli officials have thought clearly and systematically about what comes next. if you use this massive ordnance penetrator to take out the remains of the iranian program, if ayatollah khamenei, the supreme leader, is. as he appears, a target, what happens after those actions are taken? who takes responsibility? have you heard any discussion of that? >> i mean, the not on the i mean, the obviously the americans have been thinking about this for some time, but not it's been this sort of, sort of hypothetical exercise, right, about what if the nuclear

program went down and what if the regime fell, right? there's no way, as you said, that this just is a clean, one shot operation where you drop a bunker buster fordo is gone and everyone can walk away happy. i mean, that would be it would be one course of action. but that's not what ultimately the aim of the israeli operation is. there would have to be some ground element to go in to florida on the ground to, to, to, to gather information to finish off the program. and it's not the united states. i would not think that donald trump would want to authorize a larger ground presence of american troops in iran. so these are they're they're certainly thinking through the scenarios of what happens afterwards. but it does not these are not scenarios that would necessarily be in line with what donald trump would want to authorize.

>> still ahead on morning joe, we'll play for you. some of democratic senator alex padilla of california's emotional speech on the floor of the upper chamber after he was forcibly removed from a press conference with homeland security secretary kristi noem. and a reminder the morning joe podcast, available each weekday, featuring our full conversations on the latest news and analysis. you can listen wherever you get your podcasts. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. >> on the. >> left, your mouthwash with the. burning sensation, and on the right. >> closest, the alcohol free gentle. >> mouthwash that. >> works without the burn. closest mouthwash is fresh and breath. improve gum health and strengthen teeth. closest works without the burn. >> closest. anyone home in huron? jane. how's it going, honey? there's a lot to take care of. more sympathy cards. your mom was well loved. i hope

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give it to me. i'll take a bite and we'll give. oh my goodness, give a bite. really going to do that? >> why not? you have. >> to do it when you're here. >> take a bite from. one end. start on the hoof. >> oh my god! >> oh. >> see what this is? >> we're brothers. >> we do it. >> you're going. >> to do it. i ain't going to do it. no, >> all right. >> it's a tradition. >> the bone of peace. >> yeah. >> there he is. >> wow. >> all right. >> wow. >> isn't that good? >> that's incredible. >> somebody. >> only stole. >> my somebody's feet. this. >> and that was a look. >> at the eighth. >> season of the hit netflix travel series somebody feed phil. this year, host phil rosenthal, the emmy winning creator of everybody loves raymond, travels to countries all around the world, including

the netherlands, australia and guatemala, just to name a few, with the goal of expanding his cultural knowledge and palate. we're happy to say phil rosenthal joins us now. he's the creator, executive producer and host of the show, which now is officially the longest running unscripted series on netflix. phil, congratulations on that. thanks. thank you for being here. so let's just start with how do you pick how do you decide where to go. well i. >> it's. >> kind of. >> a wish list of places i've. always wanted. >> to go. we also get. incoming requests from tourism boards around. the world now. >> and i'm open to all suggestions. >> and i have this wonderful team. >> here in new york. >> that advises me as well. so i'm. >> happy to. go anywhere we. >> find a story. so what would you say. >> are the countries you just we just mentioned here where you visited this current season? what's what's surprised you the most and why? wow.

>> okay. >> guatemala okay. i. >> i we had a nanny. >> in our house who's guatemalan and sometimes she'd fix us. >> some food and it was always delicious. her name. >> is claudia. >> and when guatemala came up as a possibility, i thought, what. >> if we. >> brought her with us? >> what if we brought her home and. >> she could experience this with the. >> family. >> and me? and i thought guatemala was going to be something like mexico. and it's a cuisine all of its own, a. >> culture. >> all on its own. >> and it's just such a great lesson. you think you have a. >> preconceived notion of a. >> place, but we always. have our. >> minds blown when. >> we. >> go and find it. >> to be. >> way better and different than. >> we thought. >> it was going to be. so you traveled. >> to georgia. the country? yes. the country, not the state, yes. what makes georgian food? >> okay. first interesting.

>> thing about that part of the world is. >> wine was. >> invented there 7000. >> years ago. >> it's a. >> unesco world heritage site. >> but then the food itself is also fantastic. the soil, it's all about the soil. like just like in guatemala. the soil is. >> so fantastic that. >> everything that grows is delicious. the produce. >> all the vegetables. >> fruits, everything is great. >> and then there's these. >> giant soup. >> dumplings called pelmeni. there's probably georgian restaurants here in new york. >> right. >> i would. >> advise you to. >> go to the georgia. there does seem to be a an upswing in number of georgian restaurants around. so let's take a look now at a clip from the new season. were you enjoy a novel twist on the timeless cheeseburger? >> one thing we do do is a cheeseburger. >> and i wanted to show you that. >> i'm happy to look at that. >> for you. >> two patties. >> yellowfin tuna, ground cheddar. >> a. little bit of onion. >> pickles, mustard. barbecue sauce. and then.

>> you've got. smoked swordfish belly bacon. >> whoa. >> that's gorgeous. >> look at that. oh, boy. so this. >> burger to. >> us summarizes a lot of the work that. >> we've. >> ever done. >> what's happening. >> like interpreting. >> fish more. >> as meat, utilizing. >> the entirety. >> of the tuna. >> so there's. >> every part of the tuna ground. >> into that patty. >> oh my god. wow. >> this is. >> the best i'm going to say. burger i've ever had. >> so that's. >> an australia. >> you're there. >> with your wife. >> that's a happy memory. >> i was going to say to be clear, that's. >> a cheeseburger. but that's but. >> that's tuna. and salmon also looks delicious. >> it is. >> absolutely fantastic. >> as i said, i've had i've had. burgers that are not as good as that, beef burgers that are not as good as that burger. >> and lastly, and very briefly, i know you visit boston in the new series. i'm from outside the city, i love it. it's a city that really has taken off as a

food capital. yeah. give us 1 or 2 recommendations. >> oh. >> sarma is awesome. >> i love the i want to shout out the. >> galley diner. >> i love a diner and. >> neptune oyster house. >> i mean, there's a. lot comfort kitchen. >> there's a lot going on in boston. >> i know we have a sports rivalries, but worth visiting. >> all right, well, i know where i stand in the sports rivalries, but. >> it's been a. >> tough, tough. stretch here. all episodes of season eight of somebody feed phil, streaming now on netflix. host phil rosenthal, thank you again. >> thanks. >> all right. up next here on morning joe, we'll turn back to the news and bring you the latest from the middle east as president trump weighs his options on the growing conflict between israel and iran. democratic senator jeff merkley of oregon, a senior member of the senate foreign relations committee, will join us to weigh in on that. plus, we'll show you the key moments from an emotional speech by his colleague, democratic senator alex padilla of california, in response to being detained by dhs agents last week. a jam

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meet pepper. find your perfect fit at wear pepper. >> com hey everyone, it's nicole wallace. listen to my new podcast called the best people. i get to speak to some of the smartest, funniest, and wisest people i have ever encountered. people like kara swisher, rachel maddow, doc rivers, jason bateman, jeff daniels, and sarah jessica parker. >> they'll often say, hey, kerry, you know, they'll call. >> me kerry. >> and that's all right. >> to the best people with nicole wallace for early access, ad free listening and bonus content, subscribe to msnbc premium on apple podcasts weekdays. ana cabrera from 10 a.m. to noon. chris jansing from

noon to 2 p.m. and katie terror from 2 p.m. to four. msnbc reports weekdays on msnbc. >> a live shot there of the us. >> capitol. >> this wednesday morning, welcome to a very busy fourth hour of morning joe. it's coming up on 6 a.m. out on the west coast, 9 a.m. here in the east. and we begin this hour with the middle east. iran's supreme leader is urging president trump against launching an attack, writing in a statement that any military intervention by the united states will undoubtedly result in irreparable damage. nbc news senior white house correspondent garrett hake brings us the latest on the escalating conflict. >> this morning. president trump. >> weighing a range of options for how the u.s. could respond to iran, including a possible u.s. military. >> strike. >> according to multiple. >> current and former

administration officials. the president, speaking to israeli prime minister netanyahu by phone tuesday. >> and huddling. >> with his national security team in the situation room for more than an hour, making no public comment on the crisis afterwards. but earlier, trump seemed to allude to one possible option posting we know exactly where the so-called supreme leader of iran is hiding. we are not going to take him out. kill. >> at. >> least for now. but adding our patience is wearing thin. the president also demanding iran's unconditional surrender. >> and claiming. >> we now have complete and total control of the skies over iran. after long pressing iran to negotiate to end its nuclear program, the president suggested monday that the window to talk may now be closed. >> they should have done the deal, i told them. >> do the deal. >> so i don't know. i'm not too. much in the mood to negotiate. >> the status of that nuclear program remains an open question. in march, trump's director of national intelligence, tulsi gabbard, testifying on capitol hill. >> the ic continues. >> to assess that. >> iran is. >> not building a nuclear

weapon. >> and supreme leader. >> khamenei has not authorized the nuclear weapons. program that he suspended. in 2003. >> the president asked about those comments monday. >> i don't. >> care what she said. i think they were very close to having. >> but vice president vance, noting the un nuclear watchdog, recently determined iran. >> is. >> not complying with its nuclear nonproliferation obligations. >> if you want safety. part of safety, and i think all americans want that is ensuring. >> that the worst. >> people in the world don't have a nuclear bomb. >> during last year's campaign, candidate trump drew a hard line with iran. >> my terms are. >> very easy. they can't have a nuclear weapon. >> but also promised to be a peacemaker, especially in the middle east. >> i will stop. the chaos in the middle east and i will prevent world war three, most importantly, from happening now. >> as president trump, he faces a pivotal decision that could require taking one path and abandoning the other. >> that was nbc's garrett hake with that report. joining us now live from tel aviv is nbc news international correspondent matt

bradley. matt, good to see you today. as the world watches, to see what president trump will decide. give us the latest there from the ground in israel. >> yeah. well, as you mentioned. >> those ayatollahs. >> comments are some. >> of the most interesting. >> really directly. >> reaching out to the american president and. >> saying, among other things. >> not just these threats against the u.s, but saying that the iranian nation stands firm, whether it's a. >> forced war, forced peace, or any other kind of pressure. >> so the iranian supreme. leader basically saying he's also standing. against what. >> he would. >> consider to be a forced peace, some sort of deal of the kind that the trump administration still seems. determined to pursue that. is forced. >> upon them. >> so he's kind of doubling down against these. >> negotiations as well. >> but the fact is, here. >> in tel aviv, we've. endured the past two nights without. >> any fatalities, which is quite a different. >> thing from what we had before. the first couple of nights, there were several people who. >> were. killed by iranian

weapons. >> almost every. >> single night. and now for at least 36 hours. >> we haven't seen really any fatalities. >> we haven't seen. >> any real injuries. most of the injuries that we've heard about over the past couple of sirens that we've heard have been related to people who injured. >> themselves trying to. rush to. >> their safe rooms. >> or who were experiencing anxiety. >> so really, there's been. something of a reprieve over the past couple of days. >> and the. >> israeli military people that we've been speaking to, you. >> know, they. >> are barely able to conceal their pleasure with how this has gone so far. it looks as though they've managed. >> to get air dominance. >> very quickly, maybe. surprising a lot of people in the upper echelons of israel's military, just how. fast they were able. >> to establish. >> this air deterrence. >> and essentially. >> now they're able to loiter over tehran, the. capital of iran. we heard about. >> an operation. >> this morning that involved 50 fighter jets. >> and it took several hours. hitting many targets. >> so being. >> able to, you know, move around. >> iran completely unmolested. >> has changed the. way this.

>> war is being conducted. >> the israelis. now feel. >> as though they very much have the upper. >> hand, especially when. >> it comes to the air. and so now they're moving on to further questions. how does this end? does this end. with destroying. >> the rest. >> of iran's uranium enrichment capability, which would. essentially mean a strike on that enrichment plant at fordo that. >> would require almost certainly. >> american weapons. these moab, the mother of all bombs, these bunker buster bombs that would sink deep into the mountains of that fordo plant and destroy those enrichment centrifuges. but the. >> other thing is that the israelis. >> have also left open the door, that they might take this upon themselves to do it. >> and the israeli. military officials that i've been speaking to have. >> said that this has been planned to a hilt and that they. >> are. >> planning on destroying iran's nuclear capabilities. they were. >> not relying. >> and this is something we keep hearing on american help when they made these plans. so whether it comes to. >> donald trump's decision. if he decides. >> to he's. going to participate in this fordo facility or not,

you know, attacking it, that is going to be a question that the israelis say they already have an answer to. they're going to go into fordo whether they get american help or not. >> nbc's matt bradley, live from israel. matt, thank you so much. joining us now, retired cia officer mark polymeropoulos. mark spent his career in the middle east as an operations officer and is now an nbc news security and intelligence analyst. mark, good to see you. so walk us through as best you can what we know about this facility. in in iran, in the mountain, as it's known, it's reporting as mine included that israel is pushing the us saying that look we believe iran is closer than believed to having the sort of weapon u.s. intelligence does not necessarily agree. the president trump certainly at this moment, certainly all signs suggest that he's considering strongly considering giving the go ahead. >> so, jonathan, i. >> think this is. >> kind of the last remaining target that may be out of reach of the israelis. i know from

matt's previous report that the israelis, you know, might take a crack at it on. >> their. >> own if. they have to. >> they will. >> but the. >> u.s. air force b-2 with a gbu 57, that's this 30,000 pound bomb that can go 200ft underground. i mean, it's absolutely ideally suited to take care of this uranium enrichment facility. and, you know, many people in kind of in the proliferation world are saying that this is the last really remaining target that needs to be destroyed or certainly degraded significantly in order for the israeli military to kind of call this a success. you know, donald trump has a really a key decision to make. it's going to be a historic decision because the iranian nuclear program has been. >> a. foreign policy. >> challenge to the united states. >> for. >> multiple administrations. >> and i. think as, as we know. >> the skies over tehran, it's almost israeli aircraft flying freely there. so you would think that the b-2 aircraft, along with us fighters, would have kind of similar freedom of movement. so here's the decision. right now it's going to be a historic one. but again. the iranian nuclear program has

been. >> a. >> foreign policy challenge. and it's something that i think will really cement president trump, in his view, a legacy achievement. if we can take. >> care of this. >> and you're right to that point, the president trump has mused openly about wanting a nobel peace prize. perhaps this aides have said this could be part of his legacy. instead, let's bring into the conversation retired four star army general barry mccaffrey, also at nbc news and msnbc military analyst general. i'll go to you now because this wouldn't just be like the americans loaning the israelis a plane. this would be an american aircraft with american pilots, we believe, with american weapons on board in american operations. so if president trump, in your estimation, does give the go ahead, what does that look like for the day after in iran, in the region? >> well. >> that's the question, isn't it? if you're. >> a. >> lieutenant colonel in the revolutionary guard right now. in iran, you're looking at a world where iran is beleaguered. their ally, russia, can't

intercede. their proxies. >> have been devastated. hamas, hezbollah, the houthis, the syrian. regime's gone. >> the idf has. savaged their nuclear program. >> to a. >> great extent. and the president of the united states seems to be on the verge of assassinating the ayatollah and taking part in the war. and by the way, there's a lot of f-16s, f-15s. f-35s flowing into the region. the navy's got a carrier battle group en route to join the one in the arabian sea. >> so i. >> think it's a tremendous package to push the iranians toward the diplomatic exit. i'm not sure they're going to take it, so we'll have to see what's going to happen. but mr. trump's language has been simply unbelievable. i mean, whoever says things like unconditional surrender. >> to who?

>> to us, the israelis, never mind some of the other rhetoric. so perilous point. i think the iranians are on the verge of creating 1 to 15 nuclear devices. i don't think this is netanyahu domestic politics. these people are about to be a nuclear power, and that's a bad outcome for the united states and the middle east. >> the general, to your point about the president's language, unconditional surrender. yes. he also urged tehran, a city of 10 million people, to people to evacuate. and then yesterday caught a lot of people's attention when he used the word we in terms of controlling the iranian airspace. so it seems like, at least to a degree, he's bought in. tell us a little bit more, though, about what this mission would entail. if he does give the go ahead and the b-2 flies to the mountain there, what do you know about the weapon involved and its likelihood of success? you know, obviously there are some question marks. we don't know everything there is to know about the secret iranian

facility. >> well, look. >> we know. >> a lot. >> about the israelis got hundreds of thousands of pages of. >> iranian nuclear. >> descriptions out of out of iran. somehow it's about 300ft down. it's five giant tunnels under the earth. we know where the air filtration access points are. we know where the entrances are. i think if it was a us attack, it wouldn't be one 30,000 pound bunker buster bomb. it would be a half dozen or more. and it would likely work. i've been i've during the gulf war, watched one of the 20 zero zero 0 pound bunker busters go off, and it probably was 15 miles away, and it sounded like a nuclear weapon. so this thing probably would smash the existing facility. that's not the end of the nuclear program in iran until they politically decide to give up, and we get

inspectors on the ground with free access, all we're going to do is delay the delay the problem. so again, historic decision is mark says, my guess is, though, that we're trying to get a diplomatic solution. >> certainly this could be part of a pressure pressure campaign to do just that. israel, of course, also using things like cyber attacks, rolling blackouts in iran and the like. so, mark, let me close with you on what if the us does this, what iran's retaliatory steps could be. we know the revolutionary guard decimated, their military is weakened. they seem to be running out of missiles. but there are other things they could do here, including cyber attacks. and what's the fear that they could try to activate even as their proxies are damaged? hezbollah, hamas? they could try to activate perhaps terrorist cells throughout the west. >> right. so there's a. >> there's, you know. >> a cost benefit. >> calculus to this decision. >> that. >> president trump has in front of him. and there's there could be a cost. on this. >> iran has a very. >> robust terrorist apparatus.

>> they've used this in the past. they also, of course, have proxies who could conduct operations and proxies who could take shots at u.s. facilities, both embassies and us military military facilities in the region. >> i would imagine. in any. >> kind of package that goes in, as the general noted, it's not just the b-2. you're also going to have us fighters. >> basically hunting for. >> you know, the ballistic. >> missile launchers. so there. >> would be an idea to. >> try to. >> preempt any kind. >> of type of retaliatory attacks. but look, in. >> these types of decisions, there's cost. >> there's costs that. >> we're going to bear. >> and so i. >> think the american. >> people have to. >> understand that while we. president trump may take this decision, may really be able to dismantle the. iranian nuclear program. there might be some retaliatory actions that are going to cause us a lot of pain. >> retired four star army general barry mccaffrey and retired cia officer marc polymeropoulos, a strong pair were grateful that they joined us this morning. thank you both, gentlemen. and joining us now, democratic senator jeff merkley of oregon. he's a member of the foreign relations committee. senator, thank you so much for

being with us this morning. let's start with what you know is the threat posed by iran. what's our what's your best assessment as to whether they are on the verge of obtaining one of these weapons? well, they. >> certainly have done. a serious amount of enrichment to 60%. and then you're. >> able to go from 60%. >> to 90% quite easily. we should remember, however, that under president obama, through a diplomatic arrangement, they agreed to ship out and did ship out their higher enriched uranium. they kept their production to. >> under just the civilian level. >> of 3 to 5%. we had. inspectors and sensors. >> all over. >> the place. so both the and they dismantled their iraq reactor. so their plutonium reactor. so they stopped the plutonium route, the uranium route, the surreptitious route. and all of that was dismantled because president trump took us out of the jcpoa. so just a little bit of historical background that a lot of what's being attempted now was achieved

through diplomatic means before before president trump and his first administration undid it. >> yeah, a fine point there. president trump sort of reflexively undoing his predecessor, president obama did. senator, let's get your assessment here on those in congress, democrats, to be sure, but some republicans, too, trying to reclaim congressional authority over going use of military action, of going to war. do you think right now that president trump has the authority, is lawful authority to order the strike if he does so? >> i think it's. >> quite clear that he does not have authority under the war powers act, because there hasn't been a direct attack on our military personnel or on our, our, our territory, which are the standards in the, in the war powers act. but listen, every time a president, whether they're democrat or republican, wants to make a decision like this, they cite article two powers, meaning the president is head of the military. and there's been a lot of deference to that kind of implied ability

to respond to conditions in the world when this potential security of the united states is, is involved. >> so, senator, let's turn to some. matters here at home. you are a ranking member of the budget committee, and there is a new analysis from the congressional budget office, the cbo, that estimates that the republicans, so-called one big beautiful bill would increase the debt by about $3.4 trillion over the next decade. and even after factoring in spending cuts, the proposal would still add almost 2.8 trillion to federal deficits over the next nine years. meanwhile, the senate gop's plan to extract more savings from medicaid than the bill has triggered a real backlash within the party. the wall street journal is now reporting that some gop senators said they were caught off guard by the steep reductions and indicated they could be deal breakers. so, senator merkley, you, of course, are standing in opposition to this bill. but what are some things right now it feels like republicans, their

own bill are still learning things about it. what are some things that have caught your attention that the american people should know? well. >> certainly there is a lot of disagreement among republicans over medicaid, and it isn't just the first level effects, which is some 16 million people would lose health care, health insurance. but then the second level is that the revenues for the rural hospitals and rural clinics would be very significantly affected, and that affects everyone who lives in a in a rural area. and so it is certainly a point of contention. other issues over the salt provisions, essentially how what kind of deduction you get for state and local taxes, you have provisions that have been pushed into this bill, like the sale of public lands. a lot of americans, including rural americans, hunters, fishermen and so forth, value our public lands and don't want to see 250 million acres sold off to billionaires like elon musk. why should we sell off the

inheritance that we have in our generation and would be passing on to the generations to come? so elon musk and his friends can have massive multi-million acre private preserves. so that's another piece of it. certainly the nutrition for children is a factor. and then we have the energy provisions, and the energy provisions are a significant issue because 80% of the value of the tax credits in driving both wind and solar have gone to republican territory, to republican states. and we were hoping and really thought we had made progress in a compromise on the ability of these projects to go forward. but in fact, what we saw were very tiny, modest changes in the bill that just came out. >> and it will be certainly a major topic of conversation in the weeks ahead. right there on capitol hill, ranking member of the senate budget committee and member of the foreign relations committee, democratic senator jeff merkley of oregon. senator, thank you so much. >> good to be with you. >> turning to business now, the federal reserve is set to make

its next rate decision later this afternoon. investors anticipate the fed will hold rates steady as it continues to gauge the fallout from president trump's trade policies, as well as this conflict in the middle east. for more, let's bring in cnbc's dom chu. dom, good to see you this morning. we know what president trump wants. he a couple times a week takes the truth social and blasts jerome powell saying it's time for a cut. but seems like the fed not willing to do that just yet. >> no, i think the fed is going to be a little bit more data dependent. >> and to your point here, we're. >> not expecting fireworks at the actual. >> decision itself. where as you point. >> out, things are near certainty for. >> no change. >> so let's put some numbers behind it. according to data. >> from. >> the cme. group's fedwatch tool, jonathan, which looks at futures prices. tied to interest rate. >> policy. >> there is, as of this morning. >> a 99.99%. >> chance for no action. >> whatsoever from the fed today. that does not.

>> mean that there won't potentially be some fireworks around the decision. so in conjunction with rate policy decisions. every march, june. >> september and december, of which this is one of them. >> the fed is going to release its summary of economic projections, its sep. that's also known. >> to some folks out there as the fed's. >> dot plot. that's where. >> fed board. >> members, regional. >> fed presidents give. >> their forecast for where they think things like. >> gdp, employment. inflation data and. >> future interest. >> rate policy. >> will go. the last time. >> the fed. >> updated its dot plot was. >> back in. >> march. >> and the consensus was. >> for two interest rate. >> cuts later on this year. >> so traders and investors are going. >> to. >> be keeping. >> a close eye on whether any. >> developments on the. >> trade and tariff fronts. also. >> the conflict in the middle. >> east will affect any of those fed economic projections. that's something to watch. but one direct. >> effect we are seeing in the markets and the economy. >> right now is the rise. >> in oil prices. >> given all the military. >> action between israel and.

iran and the prospects and speculation. >> about maybe, maybe. >> direct u.s. involvement. >> in the region, that has been the biggest driving force for the recent. rise in oil and. >> by extension, gasoline prices here and. >> around the world. there is some. >> hope and expectation, though. >> that we won't see a massive new. spike higher. and that's because much of iran's oil and gas export. >> infrastructure has been spared. >> from israeli strikes. iran may also be more measured in. >> cutting off shipping lanes tied to the strait of hormuz. >> at least for now. >> but if something were to. >> happen. >> to iranian. >> oil. >> the country that. >> could be the most. >> affected is china, which has become the single. >> biggest consumer. >> of iranian crude. they account for. >> nearly all of. >> iran's export market. now, that dynamic. >> between iran and china could. >> mean that. >> china may become more vocal if there's any further. >> military escalation in the middle east. and we're going to cap things off with a check. >> on the intersection.

>> of washington, dc and silicon valley. >> where the trump administration. >> is planning on extending the deadline. that would require chinese tech company. bytedance to divest. >> of. the popular. >> tiktok social media platform. >> here. >> in the united states. >> this is, by the way, the third time. >> the. deadline has been extended. white house press secretary caroline. >> leavitt issued a statement. >> saying that the president does not. >> want tiktok to go dark and that this. >> new 90. >> day extension will give time for the. administration to work on getting a deal. >> done to keep the app. >> available for. >> all americans. a number. >> of parties reportedly have been. >> interested in. >> buying tiktok's. >> u.s. operations. including names like tech. >> titan oracle, also applovin. >> and billionaire frank mccourt's. project liberty consortium. so an interesting move here. >> we'll see if a tiktok deal. >> actually gets done sometime soon, guys. >> all right. cnbc's dom chu dom, thank you again. coming up next here on morning joe, we're going to keep an eye on capitol hill, where defense secretary pete hegseth will soon begin testifying before the senate

armed services committee. plus senator alex padilla of california responds to being detained last week by dhs agents. we'll show you some of the senators emotional speech on the senate floor. and also ahead, an appeals court appears to be taking a side in the legal fight for control over california's national guard. we'll have that update for you as well. and a reminder the morning joe podcast is available each weekday, featuring our full conversations and analysis. you can, of course, listen wherever you get your podcasts. you get your podcasts. >> chain of. it all started with a small business idea. it's a pillow with a speaker in it! that's right craig. pulling in the perfect team to get the job done. i'm just here for the internets. at&t, it's super-fast! you locked us out?! and when thrown a curveball...

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first of all, where are they taking me? because i know i'm not just being escorted out of the building. am i being arrested here? and what will a city already on edge from being militarized think when they see their united states senator being handcuffed just for trying to ask a question? >> that was democratic senator alex padilla of california yesterday on the senate floor. his emotional speech was, of course, in response to being forcibly removed from homeland security secretary kristi noem's news conference last week. here's more of what padilla had to say. now, throughout this country's history, we've had conflict, we've had tumult, but we've never had a tyrant as a commander in chief. and that is not by coincidence. it's because

the american people have always been willing to speak up and exercise their first amendment rights to protest, especially when our fundamental rights have been threatened. a united states senator becomes too afraid to speak up. how can we expect any other american to do the same? it doesn't matter if you're a republican or a democrat or an independent. we all have a responsibility to speak up and to push back before it's too late. so i do encourage people to keep peacefully protesting. there's nothing more patriotic than to peacefully protest for your rights. >> meanwhile, a federal appeals appeals court appears poised to let president trump's deployment of 4000 national guard troops to los angeles continue despite pushback from that state's

governor, gavin newsom. in an hour long hearing yesterday, a three judge panel seemed skeptical of newsom's argument that trump did not justify his decision to send the guard to protect federal buildings amid the city's anti ice protests. the judges instead leaned on ice. that gave the president discretion to deploy the military to suppress civil unrest. as for the situation on the ground there in la, that city's mayor, karen bass, has now lifted the curfew of la's downtown area. the restriction was put in place at the height of anti-immigration enforcement protests last week, despite tensions easing in los angeles, defense secretary pete hegseth is ramping up the military presence there. the dod announced yesterday it's activating another 2000 national guard troops to support federal operations. joining us now, we have the president of the national action network, the host of msnbc's politics nation,

the reverend al sharpton, and the co-founder and ceo of all in together, lauren leader. good to see you both this morning. rev, starting with you. certainly an eventful stretch there in southern california. padilla's emotional speech, getting at the heart of this idea that this is maybe not the america he thought we lived in, that he thinks we should live in. and you have a n los angeles that seems like it's calming down. curfew has been lifted, and yet the president and his defense secretary, some say for political reasons, are just increasing the military presence there. >> i think. >> it is. >> definitely political reasons. somehow, i think president trump has been convinced that taking a hard line on deportation. is a is politically to. >> his advantage. >> there are a lot of people in his base that have been complaining for years about the question of migrants, illegal migrants coming across the border. >> they're the gangsters, they're. >> the drug dealers, they're the

violent people. what i don't think he's getting is the fact that that does not mean people want to see it go too far. and arresting a city controller in new york yesterday, manhandling a u.s. senator in a federal building in la, many people that took a hard line are saying, wait a minute, this has nothing to do with what we were worried about. we thought you were going after criminals, not manhandling senators and breaking up families. i think they missed the call. >> and lauren. >> the president and his team could be emboldened, perhaps, by this decision because let's recall just a couple of days ago where trump, you know, more or less declared war on blue cities, name checking a few chicago and la, new york included, say these ice raids are going to step up. and suggesting that national guard, in his estimation, if needed, would be there to help. >> i mean, the hypocrisy of all of this is so unbelievable, especially from, you know, a

group of people that are, you know, spent the biden years screaming about federal overreach. i'm old enough to remember when greg abbott believed that the united states military was invading texas because the national guard was conducting, under obama, conducting exercises in, in at a texas airbase. i mean, it's just unbelievable that this is where we are. i think what. >> is disturbing. >> to so many americans, as rev said, you know, it's not the deportation of people that may be criminals. it is the sense of lawlessness from this kind of goon squad that seems. >> to. >> be emerging from ice and these sort of unnamed masked enforcers who are, you know, at rallies, who are showing up and arresting people without warrants. you know, in lander's case yesterday, what was he saying repeatedly on the tape? where is the judicial warrant? and we've been seeing lots of, you know, videos online, facebook, etc. you know, the social media, youtube of people who are being arrested and

asking for warrants, which they are not being presented. so it's that is the kind of stuff that americans start to go, hold on a second. like what is where is the due process? where are some of these fundamental rights that americans believe they should have? >> and a dhs dhs spokesperson afterwards, a claim that lander assaulted an ice agent when that claim is clearly. >> they keep saying. >> that clearly contradicted by video. we all saw the video of the arrest. it didn't happen. okay. you both please stay with us. defense secretary pete hegseth back on capitol hill this morning, where he will testify before the senate armed services committee. we're monitoring the hearing. you can see the secretary there, especially for any comments he may make about the situation in the middle east. morning joe the middle east. morning joe will be right back. advil targeted relief. the only topical pain reliever with 4 powerful pain-fighting ingredients that start working on contact to target tough pain at the source. for up to 8 hours of powerful relief.

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pick a. cleaner and enjoy a spotless house. >> for $19. >> welcome back. we're taking a live look at capitol hill. that's senator wicker, the chairman of the armed services

committee, presiding over a hearing where defense secretary pete hegseth will testify. hegseth expected to be questioned on a wide range of issues, from the ongoing conflict in the middle east to the deployment of the national guard to los angeles. there's ranking member, senator reed. he's speaking next. then we'll get some opening statements from the secretary. we will dip in back to that hearing room in the capitol when news warrants. but in the meantime, as israel and iran trade fire for the sixth straight day, americans with loved ones in both countries are watching from afar, fearing for their friends and family. joining us now we have elisha wiesel. he is chairman of the elie wiesel foundation. his father was a holocaust survivor and renowned author, professor, nobel laureate and human rights activist. thank you so much for being here. and you sat down saying just a moment ago, your son, i believe, is in israel at this moment, is that correct? >> yeah. >> and i heard from him what's,

what's the latest. >> we hear from him all the. >> time and it has. >> incredible family resonance. >> for us. my father. >> went to israel. whenever it was under attack. and in. >> gulf war one. >> you know. >> he wrote a letter to me while scuds were falling in a bunker that i. >> really discovered only. >> after his. >> passing. >> where he told me sort of how. >> precious some. >> of these things. >> in life are. >> and now, of. >> course, we. >> have my son there. >> and i have all these messages. >> that. >> i want to send. >> to him. of course, we're able. >> to it's. >> not it's not 1991. >> it's much easier. >> but i. >> feel such tremendous. >> pride for him. you know, american jews and. >> lovers of. >> freedom and democracy have. >> a choice. >> right now. >> as to whether or not to lean in. >> and be. >> there for. >> our brothers and sisters in. america's only democratic. >> ally in. >> the middle. >> east, israel. >> and we need to be. >> there for them. and the fact that my son is there, doing what. >> my. >> father used. >> to do fills me with tremendous meaning and purpose. >> and what are your your thoughts? we know since october 7th now, coming well over a year and a half ago, there has been a rise of anti-semitic incidents both abroad and here in the united states. do you have concerns that with the spotlight

yet again on the middle east, another conflict there that involves israel? are you fearful that there could be an unwanted resonance elsewhere? >> i mean, the war. >> is already here. >> american jews. >> are already. >> in danger. >> jews being burned alive in boulder. >> colorado. >> for protesting. >> for the safe return of the hostages. >> you know. >> israeli embassy staffers murdered. in cold blood in dc. the war is already here. american jews are already. >> in danger. >> we have a mayoral. >> candidate on the ballot who. >> refuses to. >> condemn the. >> phrase, you know, globalize the. >> intifada, which is code switching for kill the jews. >> so you have zoran mamdani running for office. the war. is here. it's not something fictional. >> and. >> far away. >> now, you have said this is the assemblyman. he he just he disputes the definition. he says it's more that he thinks palestinians should be free. but you're right, it has that. it has a certain meaning for certain people. he's gotten. >> a lot. >> of it has a pretty indisputable meaning, which he's manipulating and changing for his own political purposes, because he knew he can't win a huge part of the new york vote if he doesn't find some way to change his tune on that front.

but i did want to ask you about i was thinking about your father and about his work. i wonder about how you feel and how you've been thinking about the sort of vast acceptance of the idea that israel is committing genocide in gaza, which, of course, there are international organizations who claim they are. i think most jews find that really offensive in the context of the genocide of the holocaust, etc. and other genocides that have happened against against a backdrop when the news and there's so many big institutions that continue to push. i mean, bbc yesterday, another fake story about the israeli army, when so many institutions are pushing either wrong or sort of anti-semitic narratives, how do you think about responding? >> my father wrote a great. >> piece in. >> 1975 called. zionism and. >> racism in response to the. >> un. >> when that. horrible thing was passed. zionism is racism. and he said what. >> the. enemy does and has always. >> done to the jewish. >> people is. >> they accuse us of what. >> they've done to us. they took

all our possessions. they call us misers and greedy. they, you. >> know. >> killed our children and. >> they accuse us of. >> ritual murder. the same thing is true with genocide. the definition of. >> genocide is very. clearly spelled out. >> it requires intent. israel has no desire to. murder gazans. it's not doing that. it doesn't want. >> to kill gazans. >> israel is. issuing work permits to thousands of gazan workers in the days and months before october. >> 7th, to try to. >> create a thaw and give them an opportunity to earn a living. so the idea that israel wanted. >> that war is ridiculous. >> but if we're talking about genocide, we should talk about a pledge that the president made in 2017. in his first term. >> the president made a pledge of a holocaust. >> memorial museum when and he invoked my father. and he said that when israel is threatened with total destruction, we will act. and he did that invoking my father and. never again. he then. just over a year. >> later, helped. >> sign into law. >> the elie wiesel genocide prevention act. >> now there is a genocide on the. >> table. >> and my father could never

understand. >> or. >> forgive president roosevelt. >> for not. >> bombing the. >> crematoria at auschwitz. >> in 1944. he knew that the united. >> states. >> knew what was going on, and. >> we didn't take action. the nuclear. >> sites in. >> iran are the next auschwitz. >> 6 million. >> jews or more. could die. >> if those things are assembled to fruition, as they've stated that they want to do. and tehran has. said they want to. >> wipe the jewish state off. >> the map. >> it's a. >> very clear. >> it has that intent. >> part of. >> the. >> genocide definition, and they're almost able to do it now. the israeli people are incredibly resourceful. i want to tell. >> you a very. >> short story about auschwitz. >> which. is that. >> in 1944, october 7th, after seven months, a group of four young jewish women under their fingernails. a teaspoon a day, they brought gunpowder. >> to the crematoria. >> over seven months, and they. used that gunpowder to destroy

crematoria four, and they actually stopped the crematoria from operating and. blocked the killing machine and slowed it down. israel is also patient. it will do what. >> it has to do. the united. >> states can make this happen much faster and end this. >> war. >> much, much more quickly. and that, i think, would send. >> a. >> message to the world once again that when the united states says that there is a red line, whether it's to a tyrant gassing their own people in syria, or whether it's a theocrat trying to become a nuclear power, that the united states red line means something. again. >> a remarkable story. and israel has made clear they will act with or without the united states. we expect a decision from president trump in the hours and days ahead. chairman of the elie wiesel foundation, alicia wiesel, thank you so much. >> thank you for your. >> time this morning. we really appreciate it. still ahead here on morning joe, we're going to keep watching the senate armed services hearing, where defense secretary pete hegseth is set to testify soon. there's still an opening statements. now, this of course, happening as president trump is about to hold, as

mentioned, an event at the white house for the raising of 100 foot flagpoles on both the north and south lawns. some suggestion he might speak to the media there. we haven't heard from him in a few days about iran. we will keep an eye on it. more morning joe for you. straight ahead. >> oh. >> hey, did you. >> find the manual? >> yes, of course i found it. no, i need that summon. >> dale. who's dale? a real human, i'm dale. >> american home show. >> now provides. >> video chat. >> with live. repair experts. >> for home. >> fixes over. >> the phone. >> let's go fix that oven. >> okay. dale. >> i need my phone back. >> fix it over. video chat with american home shield. sign up today at work, play, blink. relief work. play blink. relief. relief work. play blink. relief. the only 3

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[ low roar ] no. come on. run. [ roar ] july 2nd. >> welcome back. we're taking a live look at capitol hill. there is secretary of defense pete hegseth testifying to the senate armed services committee, appearing alongside the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and the acting undersecretary of defense. let's listen in. >> president trump is. >> correcting that. >> we're reviving our defense. >> industrial base, reforming our acquisitions. >> process, rapidly. >> fielding emerging. technologies and new weapons to. >> meet the challenges. >> of the future. >> this budget invests. $25 billion. >> in. golden dome. >> for america a down payment. >> on president. >> trump's priority. >> to defend our homeland. it also. >> commits more than. >> $62 billion. >> to modernize. >> and sustain our. >> nuclear forces.

>> as we face rising. >> nuclear dangers. >> the budget. >> allocates 3.5. >> billion for the f 47. >> the world's first. >> sixth. >> generation air. superiority fighter. >> the budget will revitalize. >> our. >> shipbuilding industrial base. with $6 billion in. funding in fy 26, and that's on top. >> of 47 billion overall for shipbuilding. the budget significantly increases funds. >> to. >> buy next generation technology, including. >> autonomous systems, long range. >> drones, long range fires. >> and hypersonics. >> we will put these capabilities in the hands of. our warfighters. >> ensuring we remain the most lethal force in the world for generations to come. >> and third, we're. >> reestablishing deterrence. when an opponent sees our well-equipped and tough as nails. >> warriors. >> they will decide that today is not the day to test. u.s. resolve credible deterrence. it starts. >> at home, and. >> it starts with securing. >> our. >> borders. >> as was mentioned by the chairman. >> we've achieved. >> we. >> are working to achieve. 100% operational control of the

border. >> illegal crossings have. decreased 99.9% and. >> it was. >> just reported today. >> that cbp released zero illegals into the u.s. >> last month, down. >> from 62,000. >> released into the. >> interior secretary defense talking about the pentagon's budget. they're on the right side of your screen. on the left, there's president trump. he just stepped out of the white house constructing some very towering flags on the north and south lawns, both of the white house. in fact, as the world was watching last night to see what he would announce on truth social about iran, he put up a post about this. he's talking to construction workers there. we, the white house, gave guidance that he may address the press. they're not sure yet. if they do, we, of course, will bring it to you. we will sneak in a quick break as we keep our eyes here on two scenes. well, looks like president trump might be strolling over to the media now.

want to stay with it for one more beat? let's see what he let's see what he has to say. we're listening in now. president trump at the white house lawn. >> before that just a tad. and i've always said why doesn't have a flagpole from the grass. they call it a flagpole from the grass. >> they have. >> a little one on top. very little one. this is. a about the largest you'll ever see. and it's tapered. it's an equality that you guys rarely get to even put up. they do. >> that for a living. >> they're incredible people. i don't. >> know them, but. >> i love them. >> and i. >> would bet. >> that they all. >> voted for trump. i mean, i don't know for a fact, but i think so. but we're about to lift it. >> and we. >> also have one. >> going on what's called the front of the north. >> we have one going. they're identical. >> so we'll. >> have one on this side of the building. >> we'll have. >> one on. >> that side. >> of. >> the building properly placed. in this case we had a lot of choices putting. >> it on that hill, putting. >> it different places. it's such a beautiful pole. we thought. >> we'd.

>> put it near. i mean, it always looks best when it's near. >> a doral. >> i put it right near. i have a. similar pole. >> and these are the best. polls anywhere in the. >> country or in. the world. actually. they're tapered. they have the nice top. you know. >> i don't know if you people. >> are esthetic. you know, they're the fake news i don't know. >> i don't know over there. >> but it's a very exciting project to me. and then. >> at 11:00 we're lifting the flag. >> but we're going to lift the. >> pole now. >> then they're. >> going to the. >> other side. get that and then. >> we're going to do. >> i. >> think, two flag lifting. >> we'll be. >> putting it up. >> at 11:00 here. >> and a. >> couple of minutes. later on the other side, we'll. >> start. >> here at 11. >> so that'll be. >> very nice a very patriotic we're doing well. >> well. >> and as a country if the fed. would ever lower rates, you know, would buy debt for a. >> lot less. >> it's a shame. this guy i have a guy. do you ever have a guy. >> that's not. >> a. smart person and you're dealing with him and you have to deal. >> he's not a smart guy. he's worried. >> about inflation. >> i said, that's right. if there's inflation. in six months or nine months, you lower the rates or you raise the rates.

you can do whatever you want, brian. >> right. >> so let's say there's rampant inflation. >> which there's none. >> you know what? there is a success. i got. >> a call from. >> congress last night, sir. >> there's a problem. >> i said. >> what is it? >> money is pouring in. >> we don't know how to. >> account for it. >> i said, check the tariffs. $88 billion came in. from tariffs. no inflation. and it's going to get even more. >> so i know what i'm doing. >> so we have a stupid person frankly at the fed he probably. won't cut. today europe had ten. cuts and we had none. and i guess he's a political guy i don't know. he's a. political guy who's. >> not a smart. >> person. >> but he's costing. >> the country a fortune. so what i'm going to do is, you know, he gets. >> out in about nine months. >> he has to he gets. >> fortunately terminated. >> biden i would. >> have never. >> reappointed him. >> biden reappointed him. >> i don't know why that is, but i guess maybe he was. >> a democrat. >> you know, i got great. >> advice from mnuchin on. >> this one. a great. >> advice. >> but he's done a poor job. so we have no inflation. we have

only success. and i'd like to see interest rates get down now. biden did a lot. >> of very. >> short. >> term debt. so we have. >> short term. debt coming due. and because of. >> this guy's. >> rates. >> you know. if he'd. lowered a point, i'd pay about a point less than if it lowered two points, i'd pay about two points less. and that's for ten years, 12 years, 15 years, five years. it's hundreds of billions. it's even trillions of dollars that we're going to lose because of this. too late. >> i call them too late. >> pal. >> because he's always too late. >> i mean, if you. >> look at him every time i did. >> this, i. >> was right 100%. >> he was wrong. maybe i. >> should. >> go to the fed. do you think? am i allowed to appoint myself, doug? i don't know. am i allowed to appoint. myself at. >> the fed? i do a much better job than these people. >> so anyway. >> we should. >> be two points lower. >> it'd be nice to be two and a half points lower. >> we'd be saving. >> $800 billion. 700 billion is a lot. >> of money, right? >> take it for nothing. for

absolutely nothing. we'd save six, seven, $800 billion. we have. i think we're 38th. >> now. >> in interest. and we should. >> be number one. >> we should be the lowest. but and by the way, if he's worried about inflation, that's okay, i understand that. i don't think there's. >> going. >> to be any so far there hasn't i mean we have. almost no inflation. we've done a great job. we had when i came in we had a lot of inflation. we went through four years of the highest inflation in the history. >> of our country. with sleepy joe. biden and. >> sleepy joe. >> and he. >> didn't know what the hell. >> he was doing. and so we had. >> the highest. inflation we've ever. >> had in the history of our country. and then it came down because when i got elected, it started dropping because people understood that i knew what. >> i was doing. >> but now we have a man that just refuses. >> to lower. >> the fed rate, just refuses to do it. and he's not a smart person. >> i don't even think. >> he's that political. i think he hates me. but that's okay. >> you know.

>> he should. he should. i call. >> him every name. >> in the. >> book trying to get him to do something? i've been nice to him. i do it always. i don't know how to sell. i've been so nice to him. fellas, you wouldn't believe. let's have dinner. too late. >> i'd come. >> too late. come on. too late. let's have dinner. >> i do it every. >> way in the book. i'm nasty, i'm nice. >> nothing works. >> he's like just a. >> stupid person. but i don't expect anything. >> maybe he does. >> a little bit. >> but we should be two and a half points. >> remember. >> europe had ten cuts. we had none. we're paying more rate, more interest than a lot of european nations that that can't carry our suitcase. i'm going to be nice. there's another expression. you know what the other. >> expression can't. >> carry or you know what it is, but i can't use it in front of the fake news. so it's very sad to see it. and what i'm going to do is i'm going to go very short. >> president trump first with some lots of thoughts. about flagpoles now attacking fed chair jerome powell while standing on the white house lawn looking for interest rate cuts. let's keep listening.

>> appetite for our debt because our country is doing well. but think of it. i got. >> a call from. >> congress three nights ago, sir. we can't. >> account for the money. >> coming in. >> i said, that's a good problem. you know, the bad. problem is we don't have any money. they can't account. >> there's so much. >> more money than we thought. >> is coming. >> into the treasury. >> we don't know where. >> it's coming. >> from, sir. i said check out the tariffs. >> he calls back about a day later. >> wow. >> i think you were right, i was right. >> that's nothing. you haven't seen. >> anything yet. more importantly than the money coming in, we have factories being built, i auto factories. >> two of them stopped. yesterday in mexico. you read? >> and they're coming. >> here because. >> they. >> don't want. >> to. >> pay the tariffs. they can't pay the tariffs. it doesn't work. >> so i. >> just want to. >> wish you a lot of luck with the new flagpole. >> we have two of them. >> and we're going to do this one now. then we're going to do the other one at 11:00 or so. we're going to have a flag raising which will be great. >> and i. >> got to get these guys back to work. they're making a fortune.

>> they're standing. >> around making. >> a fortune. but remember this somewhere in this group, there's somebody. that is going to captivate some movie producer, not harvey weinstein, but somebody else. >> harvey seen a better day. >> so it won't be harvey, but it will be somebody. and i'll say that that guy. >> is perfect. >> for a movie. and you're going to become. >> a star and. >> your friends are going to call you, and you won't even return their phone. >> call. >> anymore, you know, because you say, what do you. >> do for a living? >> i put up flagpoles. i'm not even. >> going to talk. >> to you. i'm a big movie star. so somewhere here. you have that. >> anyway, let's have a good. >> they call it a lifting. >> they also use another word. >> but i'm not. >> going to use that word. >> do you know what that is? the word. it starts with an e. you know what the word is? if i ever. >> used it, i'd be run out of. >> town by you people. all right, so enjoy it, doug. >> you're but this is pretty excitin