on to say something that i just think means everything. if people have been taught to hate, they should be taught to love. amen. wise words from the grandmother of juneteenth taking us off the air tonight. and on that very beautiful note, i wish you a good, good. night from all of us here at msnbc. thanks for staying up late with me. i'll see. >> you at the end. >> of tomorrow. >> tonight on all in. >> when i'm back in the white house, we will expel the warmongers, the profiteers, and take over our government. and we will restore world peace. >> the world. >> peace candidate wants to think about it a little more. >> i will make my decision whether or not to go within the next two weeks. that's a quote tonight. >> trumpian timeline for an attack. despite everything we

learned from the last debacle. >> we should have never been in iraq. we have destabilized the middle east. >> they lied. >> they said there were weapons of mass destruction. there were none. >> then federal agents blocked from entering dodger stadium, and allegations of retaliation from the federal government. >> i don't know if trump would. do it. >> but my goodness will. >> can you imagine if they. >> did an ice raid. >> in the. >> parking lot. >> of the l.a. >> dodger stadium. >> and what american citizens need to know about the papers, please. evolution of the police state. >> literally, literally based off of skin color. my homie was born here just because of the way he looks. >> when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. the white house now says donald trump will decide in two weeks whether the united states will join israel's war on iran. of course, as many have

noted when he says two weeks, it often just means he's not going to make a decision either way. of course, war with iran would be madness, and we know that. well, we can be pretty sure about it because we all live through the last reckless regime change war of choice in the region initiated by a republican president, the iraq war, of course, an unmitigated disaster. perhaps the biggest foreign policy blunder in my lifetime. thousands of american soldiers lost their lives. hundreds of thousands of iraqi civilians were killed. it led to the creation of isis. it was a disaster for america's standing abroad. the region was completely destabilized for over a decade. and here we are at home, where it really hurt the republican party, which led directly to the nomination and subsequent election of none other than donald trump in 2016. of course, we entered that war in iraq under false pretenses as early as the day of the september 11th attacks,

secretary of defense donald rumsfeld was working to somehow use the attacks as justification for an unrelated war in iraq. the bush administration lied about the connections between saddam hussein and al qaeda. they lied about hussein having or imminently developing weapons of mass destruction. >> we have no. >> indication that saddam hussein is. ever abandon. >> his nuclear. >> weapons program. on the. >> contrary, we have more. >> than a. >> decade of proof. >> that he. >> remains determined. >> to acquire nuclear weapons. >> but i want. >> to bring to your attention today. >> is the potentially much more sinister. nexus between iraq and the al. >> qaeda terrorist network. >> a nexus. >> that. >> combines classic terrorist organizations and. modern methods of murder. >> iraq today. >> harbors a deadly. terrorist network. headed by. >> abu musab al zarqawi. >> an associate and collaborator. >> of. >> osama bin. >> laden and. >> his al. >> qaeda lieutenants. >> now, that speech was based on faulty intelligence and over the objections of multiple reports from the state department questioning that intelligence.

iraq did not have an active biological weapons program, nor did it have an active nuclear weapons program when the bush administration used them as justification for the war. there was no credible link between iraq and al qaeda. now, colin powell insisted he did not knowingly lie to the un and to the world. he later said the origins of the speech did not come from the intelligence agencies or his own state department, but rather from vice president dick cheney's office. the bush administration wanted to exploit secretary powell's reputation in order to launder faulty intelligence. well, here we are. it's 22 years later, and, god, it sure looks like it's happening again. we are being told without evidence or with faulty intelligence, that iran is actively developing weapons of mass destruction. therefore, war is not only inevitable, but necessary. but as it turns out, it's much easier this time. the trump administration doesn't need a speech at the un when they can just deceptively edit video of their own director of national intelligence saying that iran is

not close to obtaining a nuke to make it sound like she was saying the opposite. here's what the white house tweeted out yesterday. >> in the past. >> year, we've seen an erosion. >> of a decades long taboo in iran. on discussing nuclear weapons in public, likely emboldening nuclear weapons. advocates within iran's decision making apparatus. iran's enriched uranium. stockpile is at its highest levels and. >> is. >> unprecedented for a state without nuclear weapons. >> sounds ominous. that sounds threatening. here's what director gabbard actually said in context. the ic continues. >> to assess. >> that. >> iran is not. building a nuclear weapon, and. >> supreme leader. >> khamenei has not authorized the nuclear weapons program that he suspended in 2003. the ic continues to. >> monitor closely. >> if tehran. >> decides to reauthorize. >> its. >> nuclear weapons program. >> in the. >> past year. >> we've seen an erosion of a decades long taboo in iran. on discussing nuclear weapons in public, likely emboldening

nuclear weapons. advocates within iran's decision making apparatus. iran's enriched uranium. stockpile is at its highest levels and is unprecedented for a state without nuclear weapons. >> okay, that's a pretty big difference, right? the critical first line the intelligence community continues to assess that iran is not building a nuclear weapon, that, in fact, it hasn't been authorized by the supreme leader. that's a pretty important context. of course, the white house has found someone who will say iran is days away from a nuke, regardless of the intelligence. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, the same guy who came to congress on the anniversary of nine over 11 to call for war with iraq, and who has been claiming that iran will have a nuke any day now for decades. are there. >> any other. >> nations that you would recommend that the united states launch preemptive attacks upon at this point? >> no, the issue is not. the issue. >> is not. first of all, are there other nations that are.

>> developing nuclear weapons? >> yes. >> should we. >> should we launch any other preemptive attack? >> first, let me say what they are, and then. >> let me make a suggestion on how to proceed. >> thank you. >> the answer is categorically yes. >> the two. nations that are vying. >> competing with each. >> other, who will. >> be the first to achieve nuclear. >> weapons is iraq and iran. >> and iran, by the. >> way, is also outpacing iraq in the development of ballistic missile systems. this is not a hypothesis. >> it is fact. iraq. >> iran and libya are. >> racing to develop. >> nuclear weapons. obviously, we'd like to. >> see a regime change, at. >> least i would in iran, just as i would like to see in iraq. it's not a question of whether. iraq's regime. should be taken out, but when. >> should it be taken out? >> it's not a question of whether. >> you'd like to see a regime change. >> in iran. >> but how to achieve it. >> of course, it wasn't a fact at all. quite famously. deeply not a fact. exact same playbook, right down to the letter. in 2002, ken adelman on the pentagon's advisory board, told americans in the washington post, quote, i believe demolishing hussein's military

power and liberating iraq would be a cakewalk. now, fox news is sending basically the same message directly to its biggest fan, donald trump. >> honestly, if we ever even got into a conflict with iran, it would be over within two days, if that. >> well, if the guy on fox news says it'll be over in two days, well, then i'm sure it will be. it's a hauntingly familiar. the only reason that donald trump is deliberating at all this two week deadline, which again, you know, who knows what that means, is because there is a rift in his base with hardcore maga republicans telling him, do not do this because he promised them no new wars. >> when i'm back in the white house, we will expel the warmongers, the profiteers, and take over our government, and we will restore world peace. we're going to end these endless wars. endless wars. they never stop. you ever see these wars? they go

on for 14 years. 20 years. we will measure our success not only by the battles we win, but also by the wars that we end. and perhaps most importantly, the wars we never get into. >> that's inauguration day. the wars we never get into. now he's in office, and we're already at a point where a new war has started in the middle east that was started by israel, right? it sure looks like we're about to go to war. and here's the thing. every single democrat in both houses could sign on to congressional resolutions trying to block him from bombing iran, and he wouldn't blink an eye. but he cares about angering his base. >> i don't know if they're. >> trying to get us into a. war with iran or not. america if israel is trying to. i don't trust the. >> israel leader at all. >> i don't. believe anything that guy says. and i. >> i don't think that.

>> our soldiers. >> should have to go and defend. >> stuff that. >> they start. it feels. >> like. >> they're trying to push trump to go do that. >> and it's like, who makes that choice? does he make that choice? and then. >> what do. >> we get? you know. >> what's the win. >> for us? we're just involved. >> in some other. >> thing. >> while we have suffering here at home. >> now that individual theo von, he's got millions and millions and millions of listeners and he's been a trump friendly guy. and the threat of another forever war has been enough to incite the likes of maga friendly podcaster theo von and disgraced cable news host tucker carlson and former trump aide steve bannon. in fact, bannon even coincidentally showed up at the white house for lunch with donald trump today. the other thing is that war with iran is unpopular. republican voters don't like it. democratic voters don't like it. independent voters don't like it. and yet there's a concerted effort to, frankly, lie us into yet another

conflict with bs and faulty intelligence. i mean, they keep saying like they can't have nuclear weapons. they were not on the precipice of having nuclear weapons. they just weren't. you could say they were, but they weren't. or they straight up deceptively edited videos. and i think this is a political opportunity for democrats not to duck their head and see which way the wind blows, not to try to just stay silent, which a lot of them are doing, but to stand up and say, no war with iran? absolutely not. it should be the bare minimum for our elected leaders, many of whom have already seen this scheme play out before. colonel lawrence wilkerson served in the army and as chief of staff to secretary of state colin powell. he's an outspoken critic of the us war against iraq, and he joins me now. colonel, i'm so glad to get a chance to speak to you. obviously, you lived through that history. we replayed a little bit in that block, but also at the time there was discussions about iran. this is these are this is 20 years i've been hearing this. what do you

think about what's happening now and the wisdom of u.s. entrance into this conflict? >> well, i'm. >> surprised you missed the line that bibi stole from george w bush in his 2003 speech to a joint session of congress. we must not allow the world's most dangerous regime to acquire the world's most dangerous weapons. bibi just takes the same sheet of music out anytime he needs it, for whatever country he happens to be angry at at the moment. and he's particularly concerned with iran because it's the last one. he will have a clean sweep of the levant, a clean, a clean sweep of all those who might oppose him in some way in southwest asia, if iran goes and he can't do it by himself. in fact, i got videos this morning smuggled out of israel showing me that israel is being pummeled right now,

pummeled in ways that bibi netanyahu probably never envisioned. and certainly the israeli citizens of israel didn't envision. so he's in a trick bag right now, and i think it's only going to deepen and get worse. so he needs the united states desperately needs them. if he's going to complete this mission, which is almost messianic with him, to destroy this final regime in southwest asia called iran. >> there's i mean, there is a distinction, i guess i should say here, in the interest of fairness, there is not, as far as i know, a discussion of a discussion of ground troops. and i'll give the argument that that people who are pushing for this say the regime is a hostile one towards israel and the us. there's no question about that. it it has been very dangerous and deadly towards both the us and israel. it appears to be weakened. you've got a chance now. it having a nuclear weapon would be bad. you could sort of push on and push on an open

door, essentially, and achieve this big tactical victory with very little effort. what do you say to that argument? >> as a military professional? i say that's absolute poppycock, because we saw how difficult iraq became and we never really did conquer iraq in the sense that we won over the people. iran is going to be 10 or 15 times more difficult. they are far more capable than iraq was, militarily speaking, and they have not been treated to the point where i would say they were weakened severely. so if you want assurance that you're going to eliminate a nuclear program that is so underground that even these b-2 bunker busters aren't going to do anything, think al ansar and the houthis, if you will, not going to do a thing except rattle the rocks a little bit. if you want to assure that they do not have a program, you're going to have to invade and go root it out lemon branch. and that's going

to require ten years of battle with 90,000 people, all of whom will be steeled against you. i've war planned for the zagros mountains and those tough terrains in iraq. we were contemplating having to stop the soviets in 1979 when they first went into afghanistan, and we thought they might make a run down to chabahar and bandar abbas, something the russian empire, soviet empire too, had always wanted a warm water port in the gulf. those are very difficult mountains to fight in, extremely difficult mountains to fight in. you want a really long war that will cost 2 or $3 trillion. it cost a lot of casualties on both sides, and not give you much more of a result than we got in iraq. try. ron. >> you just mentioned something that has been the subject of much of the sort of debate here, which is there. we know there is a site at fordo which is very, very deep underground where

there are some nuclear facility. and there's a question about, you know, and again, i'm putting aside like, i don't think any of this is constitutional. i don't think i don't think any of it is wise. i don't think any of it's warranted by international law. but i just want to make that clear. i'm just putting that to the side for a second on just like purely tactical grounds. right. there's this site underground that what seems to be being contemplated from the reporting we have is the use of specific us bombers to attack the site that we have that israel doesn't have, that could take it out in a way that israeli planes couldn't. and what i'm hearing from you is you are skeptical. it could. >> very much so i know the capacity of these b-2 bombers, and i know the capacity of the bombs which they haul. and i know how deep the facilities are, and i know the north koreans helped them build them. we didn't even detect the first nuclear test the north koreans

performed because they were so deeply underground. so it's an almost impossible task. and on the other, on the other score that you brought up in your opening, there is absolutely no real smoking gun. as condi rice said about the mushroom cloud in iraq, which turned out to be a farce with iran. i don't think they have made that decision to go fully to a nuclear weapon. and when someone said, even tulsi said it, japan is a threshold nuclear state. i suspect they have uranium enriched to that level too. so if you want to be a threshold nuclear state, you can do that. but, but, but japan has all the technology to go ahead and build out a full panoply of nuclear weapons, just like our own. and just like moscow's iran doesn't have that. it would take them some time to build the warhead so it could withstand the reentry heat and such, and to

build a ballistic missile that mated with that warhead. look at the north koreans. took them quite a while to do that. so i believe tulsi is right. 2 to 3 years probably. even if they made a decision and put that uranium there and said 90%. >> final question, you just i wonder what it how you feel watching that edited video from the white house in which they cut out the part in which their own dni says, we assess they're not building a weapon to try to tell people that they are. >> i think it's farcical, but i think all i've heard about this president and intelligence, quote unquote, is farcical. he doesn't even take the presidential daily brief. j.d. vance, the vice president, takes that. and there are even contemplating building a fox like tv so that they can put bullets in there like fox does, and do that for donald trump. he won't read anything. so intelligence is roughly

meaningless to him. i'm i'm very pleased that he's just come out and announced what he's announced, because i think what he's doing is playing games with the regime in tehran, and he wants to bring them back to the negotiating table. i got news for him that might be quite difficult now that they've been bloodied, but at least that looks like what he's trying to do. >> i mean, that's the i guess that's the best case scenario though. i'm just not quite sure what is going to happen from minute to minute. colonel lawrence wilkerson, thank you, sir, for making time for us. really appreciate it. >> surely. >> coming up, the surreal scene in los angeles where federal agents attempted to enter the grounds at dodger stadium and were turned away by the organization and by the lapd. organization and by the lapd. jacob choose advil liqui-gels for faster, stronger and longer-lasting relief than tylenol rapid release gels because advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. so for faster pain relief, advil the pain away.

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>> solution with. >> iran instead of going. >> to war. how do you think other law firms will respond given these recent rulings? >> hundreds of people's lives are being upended, families are being torn apart, and more importantly, the rule of law in this country. >> is being undermined. >> the weekend prime time, saturdays and sundays at six on msnbc. >> the head of new. >> that spanish language version of the national anthem. the official us government version, by the way, commissioned by fdr shortly before his death, set off a firestorm of controversy around the la dodgers, at least in some quarters. the dodgers, of course, reigning world

champions and american cultural touchstone their fan bases as multicultural as any in the country, as is their roster. they've got players from japan, south korea, dominican republic, cuba, venezuela. it's like the melting pot on a baseball field. but the dodgers had not engaged in the ongoing fight over immigration enforcement in the city until that game saturday night, when they were suddenly at the center of the protests over ice raids and militarized american streets before the first pitch. of course, the folks over at fox felt aggrieved somehow. enter frequent guest and sports commentator clay travis, who gleefully put forward a plan for the trump administration. i don't. >> know if trump would do it, but. >> my goodness will. can you imagine. >> if they. >> did an ice. >> raid in the parking lot of. >> the la dodgers stadium. >> as. >> a fire. >> back situation here? >> that would be kind. >> of amazing. >> remember this fire back he's chortling about is over the official government translation of the anthem. well, lo and behold, today armed department

of homeland security agents did show up at the stadium, but they didn't get very far. according to the dodgers own social media account. this morning, ice agents came to dodger stadium and requested permission to access the parking lots. they were denied entry to the grounds by the organization. tonight's game will be played as scheduled as the team's stance on la ice raids on la ice raids broadly, a spokesperson told the la times that today the team would announce their plans to assist immigrant communities recently. impact in los angeles. nbc news national correspondent jacob soboroff is live outside dodger stadium, where first pitch is set for less than two hours from now. jacob, what? what is going on? chris. it was an unbelievable scene here today. you know, tom homan, when i talked to him on the first saturday night after these raids started, said that every day in los angeles there would. >> be. >> some sort of immigration enforcement. some days would be big days. some days would not be. >> so big. >> today feels like. >> it was a big day, because.

>> the morning started off with a raid at a home depot in hollywood, and there were reports of raids all over los. angeles eventually today. thank you so much for coming in for the game, chris. eventually today, those agents showed up here at dodger stadium and they were cornered by protesters. >> because the. >> dodgers did not let them into the parking lot behind me, where people are going in for the game right now, there's a chain link fence that is closed when the games are not being played. and so these federal agents isis, it wasn't them. >> but cbp says. >> it was their agents. >> so border. >> patrol. >> they tried to. >> get in and the dodgers rejected them. so they were quickly, frankly boxed in by protesters. and that's when we showed up on the scene today. and those basically this, this, this standoff, for lack of a better term, unfolded between those border patrol, those federal agents and the protesters here who have been out in force. >> every single day. >> because of the scale and the scope of the protests on the streets of los angeles, and what it means to the people here in los angeles. chris. >> yeah. >> there's a weird kind of gaslighting here, right? so the dodgers say, look, ice came

here. we had there were reporters who were there at the moment. there was video online. right. and then ice says false. we were never there. and dhs says cbp vehicles were in the stadium parking lot, very briefly unrelated to any operation or enforcement, but that feels like not that credible. >> this all played. >> out. >> before the eyes of our own viewers on msnbc live. i've been here virtually the entire day, and i watched i drove here as soon as i heard that this was going on, and we watched those federal agents basically be rescued by the los angeles police department, who opened the gates here and allowed them to go out a different side of chavez ravine. they didn't have to go through the protesters. one thing i want to say about this is why it's particularly raw for the people of los angeles, particularly the latino community. is the relationship between the dodgers and the latino community is complicated? when walter o'malley brought the dodgers to los angeles in the 50s, chavez ravine was three neighborhoods palo verde, bishop, and la loma was latino. families that were forcibly

evicted to create. >> the. >> construction of dodger stadium, and over the years, they have won back the trust of the latino fan base to where i believe it's the majority of the fan base of the. dodgers today. but the idea that. >> ice. >> would be in or around the parking lot, the idea that that controversy over the national anthem happened was very was very disturbing to a lot of people who, i think in another circumstance, call this place blue heaven on earth. and so right away, there was a lot of people out here because because this team means something to this city in a way that ice enforcement means something to this city. it's sort of in the opposite, in the opposite way. and so they want to make very clear. >> this isn't. >> going to be tolerated here. and i guess the dodgers got on board eventually with that today. really remarkable scene there. looks like the game is proceeding smoothly now jacob soboroff who's been there reporting on this all day. thanks so much. thanks, chris. still to come, in the middle of a trade war and on the verge of war in the middle east. why donald trump's economy is having a very hard time living up to his promise. that's next.

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huge amount of american home building, his raids on home depots and even on construction sites, it's not that surprising to see this headline that housing starts are now down to the lowest level in five years. steve liesman is senior economics reporter for cnbc, and he joins me now. this headline and i thought to myself, well, that's not good. the one thing that everyone agrees about across the political spectrum right now in america, right, is we need more housing, right? particularly in big, high density metro areas with high housing prices. we need to build more. we need to build more. with a huge fallow period coming out of the great recession, we never caught back up. >> maybe a. >> decade, maybe a decade. and we've got housing starts falling to the lowest in in five years. what's it mean to you? >> well, i think that's. >> just one. >> aspect of. >> what's happening. i think the. >> change in prices lumber. >> you look at tools. tools are something that have kept down housing prices. you think about the amount. >> of. >> time that. like a. >> construction company goes through a ripsaw, you know, you

cycle that. >> stuff. >> you. buy it a lot. yeah, it helps bring it down. >> also, you're going to have challenges. >> when it comes. >> to labor. immigrants are. >> a big part of the construction industry. none of that's going to help. now, it is true. >> that we. >> have had a decline in some housing because in housing prices overall, and that's. >> because you've had. >> this big downdraft in housing in places like florida. >> and other. >> places, and that could be a sign. >> of economic weakness. >> yeah. and one of the things that, you know, we've also got relatively high interest rates, at least higher than. other piece of the puzzle a long time. you've got trump trying to do everything he can to get powell to cut. right. and he did this the first time around. we should be clear. this is a huge no no before trump. >> no president has ever harangued a. >> fed chair. >> the way president trump has harangued powell. >> never. there's a very famous picture of lbj with his fed chair. >> they've done it. >> in a. >> quiet corner. right. >> this is trump every day being like, you idiot, cut rates. >> you didn't say idiot. you just called. >> them stupid.

>> sorry. yes, you're right. stupid. and the other day. >> he. did this. >> too late, powell. >> too late because says he's too late. what? what do you do? you think it matters? and you were at the powell's press conference the other day. what do you think. >> of it? does it does matter a lot. right. so let's talk about. >> a. >> normal economy, okay? a normal economy, let's. >> say demand weakens. >> prices are supposed to fall, okay. growth goes. >> down and. >> unemployment goes up. prices fall. what happens when you impose tariffs? okay. you can have weaker. demand but higher prices because of the tariffs. and that combination is called stagflation. if you look at what the federal. reserve did with its own forecast, what did they say? they said weaker growth for the. >> second time in a row. >> they said higher inflation for the second time in a row and higher unemployment for the second time in a row. so that's both their december sorry, their december to march. and now the march to june forecast all forecasts, essentially a mild stagflationary environment where and this is really hard for the fed because the fed.

>> then what do they want to do. >> they want to raise interest rates to lower inflation. they want to cut interest rates to good demand. so what are they supposed. >> to do? they're cross. >> what powell said is look, the may inflation numbers were relatively quiescent because you had offsets to the tariffs. he says. we believe that there's inflation or higher prices coming in the summer. and that's when we're going to figure it out. >> and he said we're seeing it in the data. the other thing is we you and i have been talking. it's so hard to keep focus on things. right. the tariff apocalypse, right. liberation day right back and forth, on and off. announce all of those those retaliatory tariffs. >> the 2nd april ninth. >> then. >> paused and. >> then went to 145% in china, then came back, then somewhere in the middle, right. >> and now they've put this new steel. >> tariffs on. >> they got new steel tariffs. >> there was. >> our friend justin. wolfers did. >> an. >> intraday tariff chart. >> so which is sort of. >> funny for. >> us econ nerds. >> carl carl quintanilla your your colleague was noting that

tomorrow marks three weeks since reuters headline saying u.s. expects more trade deals in next week or two. they keep talking about. >> two week thing. >> exactly. they keep talking about how we're going to get all these deals. so far there's none. there's uk and that's it. >> but we had a surplus with. >> the uk so that. >> doesn't matter. >> look there's something interesting to think. >> about here. >> either the tariffs hurt the economy or they don't work okay. >> so that's a. >> great way. >> so let me. >> if you have a minute i can work. >> through it okay. >> so if the tariffs end up hurting the economy because they. >> raised prices and. >> weaken growth, let's say they don't work. because the importers are essentially exporters reduce their prices, take care of it. they had weaker growth and prices fell. there's no impact on us manufacturing. >> right then you're not protecting protectionism. >> protecting anything. >> so look there's a reason. >> that's such a good point. >> it's such an. >> interesting has to be one or the other. >> it has to be one or the other. >> right. >> so i've been thinking about

like this plinko ball. right. it comes down. it's going to land on the side of either weaker growth or higher inflation. there's really only two options here. it's the opponents of tariffs are starting about this idea, which i call immaculate taxation. right. you cannot. >> raise the amount. >> of money they're raising without either you hurt profits or you raise prices one or the other. >> right. >> and the. >> money has to come from somewhere. >> has to come from somewhere. look, that's the other weird thing, right? they're talking about something like 3 or $400 billion worth of. revenue coming in that way. okay. what is that times ten? 3 or $4 trillion? what is the tax cuts? 4 or $5 trillion. so how could it be that the tax cuts are so amazingly impactful at 4 to 5 trillion. but the tariffs make no difference at all at 3 to. >> 4 trillion. >> another. see this is why you keep having you back steve. thanks for having me. always a pleasure. thank you. still ahead, show me your papers. new reporting on how american citizens are getting caught up in donald trump's mass in donald trump's mass surveillance deportation every 15 seconds, someone will hear the words,

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and it's happening more and more and more in trump's america. >> what's up guys? >> 23 year old elson lemus, an electrician, was in his work van with a coworker when they were pulled over by ice agents in westbury. >> you look like somebody. looking for. >> we're looking for. >> lemus asks why they need his id. >> i'm just going to go one. >> of two. >> ways here. >> okay? >> i need. >> to see your id. if you're not the guy i'm looking for, you're not the guy i'm. >> looking for, okay? >> but we need your id. >> no. >> you don't get your id, then we're going to have to figure out another way to id. >> you. >> and it may. >> not work out well for you. listen, i'm not holding up. get down. >> i keep it down. >> what are you doing? >> the agent. >> forces the. >> door open and demands. >> lemus stops recording. lemus was born. >> and. >> raised in. >> new york. >> and was stunned. >> i felt like my rights were. >> just like out the window. >> so those agents pulled that 23 year old from the van. they

handcuffed him, later released him after confirming whoopsies, he's an american. no apologies. and he's not alone. brian gavidia, who was born and raised in los angeles, was working on a car and a tow yard last week when he steps out. when he stepped outside, he was thrown into a metal fence by federal agents who asked him where he was born. >> i'm american bro. these guys are literally, literally based off of skin color. i can show you. my homie was born here just because of the way he looks. >> again. you're working. you're outside. armed masked federal agents come up and say, show me your papers. push you up against the fence. he was not arrested, but he told the la times those agents took his real id and never returned it. that's the proof that he's an american. it was the worst experience i've ever felt, he said. i felt honestly like i was going to die. these are the cruel

absurdities people are now facing every day. like this car full of members of an arizona based native american tribe who were followed for miles and then pulled over by border patrol last week. >> everybody in here, us citizen. >> were the. >> first ones. >> we're native american, we're the first ones. >> oh, perfect. perfect. what are you. what are you are you an american citizen? no, you're not. you're not a. >> first born. you're not. >> from this land, and neither are you. >> this is the america that donald trump and stephen miller want. that what they're tryingrw unfold at dodger stadium earlier today and at home depot in hollywood, just as we saw it on the other side of la over the weekend at a flea market that was effectively shut down by ice and border patrol agents armed with m-16s wearing masks, full military body armor. they look like they're going to go kill

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>> kpmg women's pga. >> champion live on nbc. >> and. streaming on peacock. >> i do believe the most important office in a democracy is the office of citizen. that change happens because. ordinary people get together and reimagine what their. lives could. be and push on the system. we now have a situation in which all of us are going to be tested in some way, and we are going to have to then decide what our commitments are. >> earlier this week at a forum in connecticut, former president barack obama warned the audience about what this moment in our politics is doing to our understanding of what it means to be american and what we might

have to do in this moment. as masked ice agents are grabbing some people off the street and demanding their papers as the trump administration rolls back civil rights, what is all this doing to the idea of america itself at this moment? jelani cobb is a staff writer at the new yorker and dean of the columbia journalism school, and he joins me now. you know, the former president was talking about sort of this notion of what we are as americans. i want to play another clip in just a second. but it does strike me that, like so many things that i took for granted as a kind of like civic canon, you know, like just the cliche stuff of american pluralism, right? like jackie robinson. right. like has been attacked in ways that i have found a little shocking. >> i mean, i think it's shocking, but but, chris, we know that there will always people there was always a contingent of people who did not believe in this. they never did. they were able to find each other. the internet facilitated that in some ways. but, you

know, they had this now, this new esprit decor, like they feel like they are an army on the march, on the move. and there's one other thing that i want to say about, you know, the ice raids that we're seeing. and i want to make a comparison. and that is when i talk with my students about the fugitive slave act in 1850 and how it pushed the nation closer to the brink of civil war, because they began snatching people out of communities, people who had lived in communities, the people who had escaped slavery. and, you know, my students are like, oh, so these people who came out against the fugitive slave act were all abolitionists. and i said, no, these were people who could not countenance the idea of their neighbors being taken from them. the idea. >> that is such a good point. >> the fundamental civic unit in this nation is neighbor, and that is the people who live in your community. are you prepared to see them treated in this way? and people simply were not? >> i think the civic response to

what we're seeing there is very encouraging in the same way. right. that as an abstraction, oh, i support mass deportation. get them all out of here as a reality. your neighbor. >> your neighbor. >> this is something else the president had to say about the sort of stories that that are being these sort of competing stories about america at this moment. take a listen. >> what we're seeing is a politics that is reasserting a bad story of america, which is that even if there aren't technically ranks. we like the idea of. >> caste. >> and we like the idea of hierarchy. and some people. this is our country, the real americans. and these other folks are the phony and the fake americans, or not even american. and that story also has a deep

history in this country, right? that says, okay, the first americans aren't americans. and slaves are not americans. >> i think that neat there's a division that trump has tried to wage on that ground. and they feel feel very confident about it. you talk about the esprit de corps. i have taken some heart that i feel like that argument is faltering more and more just over the last few weeks. what do you think. >> it does? i mean, well, first off, this was always kind of a house of cards. it was a pyramid scheme where they were kind of trying to use to counterbalance the contempt that someone may express for you in your interests, versus the contempt they express for some other group that you don't like. and so, you know, there's less about, you know, the basic question of a democracy is, what are you going to do for me? you know, it relies on this idea of self-interest. but, but, but trump in some ways inverted that

which is to say, how much of your self-interest are you willing to forego to see me really take it to these other people who you hate? and so at some point, this kind of house of cards starts to falter, because it's never a really kind of solid civic foundation for something to operate on. and then you go like, wait, wait, like this person's doing these things to me, and i really don't see the commensurate around the suffering that i want from these other people. or maybe that doesn't give the bang for the buck that i expected. >> or maybe the people that i thought you were going to go after. one of them turns out to be like the guy at my local store who i've known for 15 years and i know is a good guy, right. which we've seen. i mean, i cannot tell you how many of those stories. i look at them every day on local news across this country of exactly that story. >> we had no idea, you know, because they were talking in abstractions, you know, but we live in concrete realities. and so if we're taking the abstract of these people who are doing this, these people are doing

this, but not bob. bob, i know that guy. he's he's i went to high school with this guy or whatever the story is. and so, yeah, i think that it's also a kind of prestidigitation that that trump is a master of, quite frankly. >> yeah. and here we are on the thursday after a weekend that we saw 3 to 5 million people out on the streets. by some accounts, the largest anti-trump protests that are ever happened and some of the largest in recent memory. i do think there's something happening right now that that's encouraging. jelani cobb, always good to have you. >> good. thank you. >> that is all in on this thursday night. the briefing with jen psaki starts right now. good evening jen. >> hey chris i watched your a block today and your comparisons that you drew to the lead up to the iraq war, which i have been thinking about a lot too. we saw you were going to do it. we're like, we're watch what chris does. but one of the things that it made me think about, and i've been thinking about today, is also the press briefings around the iraq war. oh, yeah. and the press secretaries around the awake, the iraq war. i mean, scott mcclellan wrote a whole book about it. >> and the sort