feels their gender identity doesn't match their sex at birth. and the department fully intends to treat everyone impacted by the policy with dignity and respect. >> we will get transgender. >> under that new policy. the department of defense is urging trans service members to sign a waiver if they want to stay in service. but trans service members are saying those requirements on that waiver are nearly impossible. and with the july 7th deadline coming up for members in the reserve, we can expect that number of trans service members separated from the military to grow. back to you. >> nbc's jay. thank you jay. and that's going to do it for me on this edition of alex witt report. see you again tomorrow, 1 p.m. eastern. up next, the beat weekend. >> the nationwide broad. >> resistance against president trump's agenda. is growing

measurably. we saw the no kings protest with over 5 million people across 2000 cities and towns, and the media covered it as it happened, which undercuts some of the other. narrative in d.c, especially about a supposedly weakened or exhausted trump resistance. >> demonstrators gathered in large cities and small towns from coast to coast to oppose president trump's policies. >> demonstrations spotted in phoenix, raleigh. >> and west palm beach, just to name. >> a few. >> accused the president of stepping into authoritarianism. >> about 100. >> to. >> 250,000 protesters. >> have filled. >> the street. >> this was a historic day of protest in the u.s. >> the opposition against. >> him. >> is big, deep. growing. >> confident and increasingly unstoppable. >> growing and. >> increasingly unstoppable, as rachel put it. and that reflects something that we can measure. this is a big deal. it wasn't just a one off or a one day,

even though it was quite the historic turnout for a day. and if you get out of sort of the endless sort of political narrative thing and just look at, say, how papers and people on the ground saw it, major cities to small towns, this is front page. this was big. it happened in a way that really got that local traction as the lived experience of huge gatherings far outside a campaign season. around the world, many look over at the united states and recognize this as huge civic action, something that in some countries is a more common and, frankly, sometimes more respected contemporary occurrence than it is here. and yet, tonight, days later, here we are. much of the political world has moved on, and the d.c. press and. >> again. >> like any grouping, there's caveats and exceptions, but a lot of the d.c. press viewed this as a 1 or 2 day story. but is it? these protests are

ongoing, and if they're just a 1 or 2 day story, the premise would be that it's somehow routine thing happened. tell you about the day of day after move on. but right now, i want to go through the evidence that states otherwise that we are not witnessing some small or routine thing, but rather and o century sending the national guard. no one's tried that without a governor's approval in 60 years, telling the supreme court, sometimes they might not follow things. and then weeks later, following it. we don't have that on the modern record. not since the civil war. now, if this isn't getting the right coverage, by which i mean accurate, it could partly be

because the media landscape is changing. much of the more modern new media spaces are on digital and podcast platforms, and they currently lean right. and that might be a space where the protests are not a week long story, not something they're celebrating, maybe not something they even want to get into the day it happens. now a longtime media member and critic, the guardian's margaret sullivan, who has worked as an ombudsman, thinks deeply about how the press works. even before the protests, she wrote about how the media in d.c. and elsewhere sometimes ignores anti-trump protests because the companies are afraid that prominent protest coverage will be criticized by the right as partizan. and they, the press, cannot bear that label. she also argues that not only is the problem of fear going on, which is, ironically, protests are pog

you're partizan. but that's what the protesters are saying. we should have free speech that gos on when conservatives have the upper hand right now, and they did show improving numbers in the elections, quote, corporate media decision makers are fearful of losing right leaning readers and viewers, she argues. so that's some of the concern from a very experienced member of the press. she's worked with big outlets about what's happening. but honest press is supposed to be honest, not catering to a bottom line. and that takes us to another piece of this tonight, because some of the same types of outlets looking at another protest movement that was smaller than this one, thought it was more important, treated it as a long term story, even with far smaller numbers in this past weekend. any guesses out there? if i can hear you in your living rooms? i'm talking about the

right wing tea party, which grew in response to obama being elected and had people out in the streets and was treated by these same outlets. i'm mentioning by as a huge, big, important deal. it was treated as a political fact almost among many outlets in dc types, that the democrats and obama himself, newly elected with a mandate, would have to take this seriously and respond to the concerns of this big protest movement. it was covered more than 1 or 2 days, and their turnout numbers were much lower than this past weekend. but many in the press thought the tea party was a game changer. the media, all they're talking about, or strangely not talking about, are the tea parties for the life of them. they can't figure out what these tea parties are. >> thousands of activists. >> held. >> rallies in cities across the country. protests in big government. >> fox news covered these tea parties. >> and we. >> were one.

>> of the only organizations. >> to give. >> it any. publicity or pr. >> a movement championed. >> everything is big. >> in texas. >> by high. >> profile conservatives. >> we watched on fox news with her, you know, 12 protesters. and that's. >> really where. >> it started. >> so what started as perhaps organic and then also had a lot of money from the koch brothers and other things got some momentum, but it also got a lot of air cover, a lot of national emphasis on the tea party. and it wasn't an isolated incident. >> here's fox correspondent. >> griff jenkins. >> doing a. live shot. >> and keep. >> an. eye on what his producer is doing. >> in. now, call me old fashioned. i don't think a producer should be whipping up the crowd. if glenn beck wants to be. >> a.

>> cheerleader for conservative protests, fine. but what you. just saw. >> amounts to. >> choreographing the story. >> to get. >> people hollering. >> people were hollering. but given that we have this actual recent comparison, the trump era came after the obama era. let's just look at the facts of those protests, because at the time, the demonstrators numbered into the tens of thousands. according to a september 2009 account in the new york times. now that's a big protest. i've been to cover protests. sometimes a few thousand feels like a lot if they're packed in and loud. tens of thousands is certainly big, and you can cover it. but where does that compare to 5 million people in one day this weekend? indeed, at their height, the tea party estimates would still have you, and we checked this today be 1/20 of what we saw just this weekend alone, 20 times the number of protests. and

remember, unlike some of that glenn beck stuff, the no king's rally. shout out to some of the organizers, best we can tell was organized. but from the ground up, you did not see a glenn beck type on the left, let alone many elected democrats actually taking the lead. now, there's a broader history in this country, of course, protests so large they could not be ignored. consider back in the early 60s, when mlk led the history making march on washington, and within months there was polling that most americans thought even a peaceful protest like that. and again, there was other controversies in that era, but even peaceful protests, mass demonstrations would hurt the fight for racial equality. we mentioned that with a note of humility. the people then, like the people now, including me, the voice you're hearing don't know what's going to happen. we could be wrong. they were wrong because they overwhelmingly thought it would hurt, and they

were skeptical of getting out there. today, we have millions of americans mobilized in a way that is absolutely huge. now, one harvard study, the tea party, showed that republicans thought they were improving their voter turnout because the protests did bring in new people. and there's a long running debate over whether that kind of energy ultimately was a precursor to the maga era, and a party that was once seen as back on its heels definitely got aggressive. does any of this translate to the democrats and the coming elections? we don't know, but apart from elections themselves, we are living through something that is as big as the people involved and the narrators, whether they're on podcasts or traditional dc media, might be missing. it might be treating this as a 1 or 2 day thing that's not as big as the tea party, when if you check the numbers at its height, it's

20 times the turnout. a national movement of that sometimes very hyped tea party movement. so where do we go from here? i have someone who's been in politics so long, he was deeply enmeshed in that obama era commentary in that obama era commentary with prilosec knows, for a fire... one fire extinguisher beats 10 buckets of water, and for zero heartburn 1 prilosec a day... beats taking up to 10 antacids a day. it's that simple, for 24 hour heartburn relief... one beats ten. prilosec otc. ♪♪ when i found out i had diabetes i was told my life would change completely. it felt like a door slamming shut on my dreams. i wish i could go back and tell that 13-year-old kid that it will be ok. ♪♪ that with the help of dexcom g7, he'll see his sugars in real time giving him the knowledge to control diabetes, so he can worry less and accomplish even more than he ever dreamed possible.

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the wifi is booming. ♪ jardiance is really swell ♪ booming! and everyone's getting iphone 16 when they get xfinity mobile. point is, pair iphone 16 with xfinity mobile wifi powerboost... oh we're talkin' maximum performance with laptop speeds on the go. ...and, with apple intelligence, ms. barba has created 731 genmoji. 733! yes... darryl. where can i get iphone 16? at your xfinity store. new and existing customers can get iphone 16 on us with a new xfinity mobile premium unlimited line. >> it's time to breathe better. >> it's actually. >> most important. >> in the moments when someone is accused. of doing. >> something wrong. >> that's why due process matters.

>> i think president trump actually. >> wanted to. try a diplomatic. >> solution with iran instead of going to war. >> how do you think other law. firms will respond given. >> these recent rulings? >> hundreds of people's lives are being upended, families are being torn apart, and more importantly. the rule of law in this country is being undermined. >> the weekend prime time, saturdays and sundays at six on msnbc. >> i do believe. >> the most important. >> office in a democracy. >> is the office of citizen. >> that change. >> happens because. >> ordinary people. >> get together and reimagine what their. >> lives could be. >> and push on the system. >> president obama this week on citizens pushing. we're joined by an obama veteran, che comandante che. do people know? and is it covered as the truth that just this weekend dwarfed

the tea party by 20 times? >> it's really not. >> been covered. >> that way. the no kings protests. >> have only. >> gotten a. >> fraction of. the coverage that the. >> tea party got. the tea. >> party was. >> able. >> to. >> sustain a narrative that lasted from oh. 9 to 2010. >> into the midterms and then beyond. and i think. >> that there's probably two reasons. >> for that. >> one is psychologically, it is very. >> ingrained in americans and in the american. >> in the media. >> that the tea party. >> people were the. >> real america. and this was an uprising from the real america. you know, when. >> we say somebody. >> is a. >> typical american, you know, we think of the couple in the grant wood american gothic painting. we think of the we talk about americana. we think about the stuff that you buy at the gift store of a cracker barrel. it is very, very ingrained in the media, in americans themselves, both consciously and subconsciously,

that the real america are the people who go to tea party rallies, are the people who vote for maga. they are white, they are rural, and they are often very angry. but the no kings protests are portrayed as a bunch of urban elites on the coasts. they represent a small fraction of ivy league graduates, and none of this is true. the no kings protest was nationwide. places like chattanooga, tennessee saw large protests as much as places like new york and los angeles. and that's that's the narrative that really that the both people who care about american politics and care about where american culture is going need to push back on. >> and how aware or unaware do you think people are of what you're calling those? perhaps subconscious or or other biases?

>> you know, i think that it's so it's so ingrained in the way that we think about this country. i mean, you know, i remember when morgan whalen, just a few months ago, walked off the set of snl and said, i'm going back to god's country as if new york city is a godless place. i mean, if you go to harlem on a sunday morning, you know, it's those churches. they look like god's country to me. there's religious as anybody in this country, you know, people in new york city, you have great, great churches and great, great church attendance in new york city. but we just have this idea that democrats are just these coastal elites, and we kind of miss the larger picture about the democratic party. i mean, a democrat was just elected mayor of omaha. we have elected democrat senators, democratic senators from wisconsin, from michigan, from pennsylvania, from arizona, from georgia. you know, the democratic party is a nationwide party. progressives are all over this country. there are working class progressives who bring tremendous energy to their

causes. and they are. and it's often very much underreported by the national media. i also think a big difference between the tea party and the no kings protests, quite frankly, is that the republican party really embraced the tea party. they embraced the tea party message, they became a tea party. and that also helped trump to really kind of take maga to end up taking over the party. you know, you're making such a. >> i want to slow you down. you make it such a deep point that it's like it's like sitting right there. but when you put it like that, ted cruz ran as a primary candidate against a more experienced individual in texas, and he said he was a tea party candidate. now, he had an ivy league education and at one time was talked about as the supreme court person nominee potential. and suddenly he said, no, no, i'm the populist tea party thing. and then we know what maga came after that. and so the corollary here would be if the ted cruz's of the democratic party, people who are presidential candidates, who are elites, were out there saying,

i'm a no king's candidate or i'm an ice candidate. and while we have seen a little more action with padilla and cory booker and others, i don't want to over serve the point. i think your the evidence supports what you're saying, that that's the exception, not the rule. and you're saying the gop did well by boldly going to its base? >> yeah, the gop went worthy. and the democratic leadership, quite frankly, has done the opposite. i mean, they were talking points that were being circulated calling la a distraction, a distraction. i mean, this is what the democratic party cared about. this is what the american people care about. and democrats would be well to harness that energy and embrace it. >> great point. really interesting. i know you've worked on several presidential campaigns, so maybe some folks are listening. as you know, che, sometimes we quote movies, right? sometimes we quote musicians. but you don't know where i'm going. not unlike

trump said, nobody knows if he's going to bomb iran. they don't. you don't know where i'm going. do you. >> know i'm breathlessly anticipating what's what's what's going to come next here? >> a classic in the world of dark arts, politics, what the kids might call a banger. okay, i'm talking about classic nixon aide john ehrlichman explaining exactly what you just referred to as the negative depiction of what are even mass movements. i mean, you go back, you watch the right movie now and you say, gosh, thank goodness there was a vietnam war protest or civil rights. i mean, these are looked at almost through the lens of nostalgia, of progress that had to occur, or even a good and good and evil narrative, although its history is more complicated. but but here's ehrlichman, j. the nixon white house had two enemies, the antiwar left and quote and i'm quoting from him at that time, obviously, quote, black people. we knew we couldn't make it illegal to be against the war or

black. but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities, vilify them night after night on the evening news. for erlichman, channeling the dark arts of nixon president who was removed, ousted, pushed out as a republican president for all kinds of misconduct, ehrlichman viewed the legal crackdown and the evening news as synonymously important to undercut what otherwise was, in their view, a potently powerful protest movement. do you see any echo of that today? >> i do not see an echo of that on the democratic side. i do see a lot of echoes of that on the republican side and the trump side. that is exactly what they're doing with, with with the ice raids as well, which is you go towards both the conscious and the unconscious. you go, you go. you consciously talk about enforcing the law and

saying that the these people are lawbreakers and they should be deported, all of those things. but then you subconsciously go towards tribalism, towards a sense that we are losing our identity as a white christian nation. >> the mass protests and how democrats can actually break through what was once seen as the maga broadcasting platforms. >> i want you to have good public. transit to get to where you're going. and then when you get to that job, i want you to be paid well. and if you're about to have a kid, i want you about to have a kid, i want you to know that as a person living with diabetes i'm all about making progress. woah it's sherri shepherd in my roller rink. progress isn't about overhauling your life, or always being perfect. ooop. my progress is making smart choices to help lower my a1c with my freestyle libre 3 plus sensor. it's the little wins, baby. and getting one at half the cost of other cgms, well, that's a big win.

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do have cleavage. find your fit at wear pepper. >> com work play, blink. work play. blink. >> relief. >> the only. >> 3 in. >> 1 extended relief formula for dry eyes. blink. >> the current opposition to donald trump. his governance. his movement is large and clearly broad. 5 million people taking hours to be out in the streets. and yet liberals and democrats are still lagging in getting that message out.

millions believe in it. but who's hearing it? they're not getting it necessarily to younger people who we now know clearly, get most of their information online because trump and maga voices dominate those spaces. those podcasts and digital realms. and that just matters politically. tv news also plays a distinct role in our politics, particularly with day to day governance. we can tell you it is still where most elected officials in both parties will go first. day to day. and yet the new media of ponds and streams and youtube shows reach many millions who do not buy or watch cable news. and these top sort of digital stars already reach far more people than traditional tv. joe rogan 20 million youtube subscribers, 14 million spotify listeners. others building those big audiences, rogan's podcast often ties or beats the new york times

daily pod, and he has more subscribers than the times. with 12 million. now, politicos may notice these pause when they have the political guests. but let's be clear many started as more whimsical, fun, offbeat talk show hangouts with comics and creatives just chatting about all kinds of topics. politics comes up, but it's not the focus. and while democratic leaders once viewed these so-called bro pods as a kind of risk full of divisive and admittedly offensive takes, sometimes more, democrats are now wading into these new waters. >> i went to japan recently and i got both of you guys gifts. this is a. palestinian movement in japan. thank you. solidarity with palestine. and this is a little train. >> oh. >> if the. >> democratic party. >> cannot win. >> the votes of union workers. >> who are they for? >> okay. >> all right, let's. >> take a deep breath.

>> you ready? >> okay. >> i'm ready. >> my son's a big fan of yours, baron. >> really? baron is. >> yeah. >> oh, nice. he just. >> graduated high. >> school, right? >> that's right. he just did. >> he? >> he knows you. >> very well. >> he's a dad. >> he's big. >> wow. >> big one. >> that's cool. >> fact check. true. that podcaster comic theo vaughn is big. and it tells you something that in an age gap from, you know, about 19 years old, the president pushing 80, that's where they overlap. now after trump's election win, some democrats talked about just building your own digital spaces from scratch. that's a separate kind of longer term idea. but plowing into even the right leaning digital spaces could have a much faster impact than trying to build something for years to catch up with them, especially if candidates use this as a chance to talk like non-politicians to go mix it up. that's the lesson recommended by a reality tv pioneer and trump critic michael hirschhorn, writing in the new york times at the so-called broadcasters began

as political novices honing their kind of real talk style as touring comics and learning how to talk to people without talking down to them. simple enough. and again, you might say, all right, ari, but what do punchlines have to do with politics? well, i'll tell you. hirschhorn here makes a simple point skilled comics and politicians both know how to work a crowd, how to deal with where they are, not where you just think they should be. and the realness matters. especially right now. authenticity is what fills the void when authority dies, he writes. so these mediums are new, but the core point is actually not new or controversial. you may recall the old saying, the medium is the message. mcluhan or how people have talked about. and if you take a political science class, everyone will remind you

how politics went through radio. and then it went through tv and the kennedy nixon debate and all that stuff. the mediums of those times defined the political stars of those times. so nowadays being, you know, authentic and compelling in these long form conversations is different than how you would present in a sunday public affairs show on tv. and it doesn't mean mimicking the hosts. it just means making the case on their turf, which is something a skilled politician is supposed to be able to do. now, several of these so-called bro pods have a kind of breezy, anti-pc, anti-establishment attitude, including about what might pass for basic civility or sensitivity, especially depending on where you are in the country. but that, we should note, did not stop pete buttigieg from going in there as himself and really opening up, seeming to share more about his personal journey from the military to coming out.

>> right around the time i came out, which is like a terrifying thing to do as a elected official in indiana. right? this is after. >> you got back from afghanistan. >> yeah, exactly. exactly what happened. >> what did you eat. >> out there? >> yes. okay. >> no, honestly, what happened was, you know, you when you get deployed, they tell you to write a letter. and i still have it in a drawer somewhere. and it's the letter. it just says just in case on the outside. >> wow. >> and it's everything from that you want your loved ones to know from your internet passwords to like how you feel your life went. i'm a grown man in a position of responsibility, and i don't actually know what it's like to be in love. and if i get back, i'm not going to let that continue. like, whatever the implications, i'll just i'd rather deal with that than once

again contemplate the idea that i could go to my grave not knowing what it's like to be in love. >> on tv. we're supposed to keep it moving, right? jump to the next thing, and the next thing was just, you see that there's a different vibe there. the medium is the message. if you're willing to catch up with that vibe on a sofa, a bunch of people around, less formal. and yet pete buttigieg did something that seems very real and important there. and it wasn't one of these democratic lists of eight points. maybe he changed some minds. he certainly avoided the tone of like, a workplace sensitivity training, which plenty of people need. and everyone should be respected at work. but this is politics and culture and life. and he shared it in a very different way there. there's another classic line from a conservative culture warrior, the late andrew breitbart. it actually echoes an

earlier point from the democrat pat moynihan. breitbart said politics is downstream from the culture. mitch hirschhorn notes. the idea is that people's stances about guns or feminism flow down from the culture they're steeped in, just as moynihan, from the left, argued that liberals could use politics to reform culture and save society from its worst instincts. well, today, culture now is politics, and these podcasters are broadcasters are the example of why hirschhorn writes this. media veteran and a writes this. media veteran and a veteran of the beat these dishes just aren't getting clean. the problem isn't your machine. it's likely your detergent. —really? —really. i recommend switching to cascade platinum plus. these new pods dissolve completely, releasing more soaking, scrubbing, and rinsing action, plus the grease fighting power of dawn. breaking down up to 100% of tough stuck-on foods. that's impressive. and it works so well, it even keeps your filter clean.

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oh! >> this is a good discussion. >> why are you shocked? >> i'm shocked. >> because i. >> you're asking you questions. >> that are not often asked. >> don't be shocked when you have a good podcast discussion. that was bernie wading into the waters. we're joined by michael hirschhorn, who's really one of the most perfect guests you could ask for. he's a reality show producer and pioneer. he helped develop the concept of celebrity reality tv. he was head of programing at vh1. he's run his own shop. and while he and donald trump share the history of reality tv, you have been a writer and leader of the resistance against trump for a long time. you've put a lot of your mindshare into that. welcome. >> thank you. so much. >> you write this new york times piece. we explored some of the points. what stands out to you? >> i think.

>> we're in an age. >> when being a real person matters more than what. >> your. >> particular position is. and i think the republican candidates have. >> understood that. >> they can. >> use this. >> podcast medium to. >> really. >> you know, lock in with their voters. and get intimate and get trust with their voters. and it was. >> really notable. >> that kamala. >> refused to. >> go on a lot of these podcasts. she went on a couple safer podcasts. >> but she missed this. >> opportunity. >> which is. >> how most voters under. >> the age of. >> 40 get their news and get. >> their allegiances. >> and it's continuing. we'll put this box we had back up because i want to show folks, you look at this box, you got some people you might know. we just saw schultz with bernie sanders lower left. rogan's pretty known, but upper left is theo vaughn. funny comic. not not particularly right wing with jd vance recently. republicans continue to engage this space, not just during election season. >> that's right. and they they understand. that young people are not consuming traditional

news. young people are not reading the new york times, they're not reading the atlantic. and if they want to reach them and they and they want to continue to connect with them, this is how they have to do it. >> you mentioned being authentic. reality tv offers the promise of something more real than script. but as you've written, eventually everyone is unscripted. performing, right? >> right. >> you're performing authenticity. and i and i, and i wonder if podcasts are going to get to that point at some point. but right now, i think these remarkable moments, like the pete buttigieg clips that. you showed earlier, they're deeply moving. and i think that there's a the reason they're so moving is because there's so much distrust of politicians in general. right. and that's what these podcasters are saying. and there's a reason they like bernie and they like it doesn't really make sense, except that they trust that bernie is an authentic human

being who is willing to stand by. >> his. >> issues, who's consistent, who's self-deprecating sense of humor that that those people on the margins are more authentic than your kind of traditional, mealy mouthed politician. >> so let's let's turn to populism. it's a word that means, like everything and nothing, but the idea that your leaders should genuinely care about what everyone's going through and try to reflect their experience, needs, and aspirations is a version of populism. yes. for sure. and these podcasters come at politics like a lot of people, not junkies. not assuming one side is the absolute monopoly truth, and then kind of bsing about it. right. because it's not sacred to them, right? people who might not be us about a carburetor or something else they care about, like, no,

there's an answer to that. but and that seems to offend liberal elites or democratic party leaders, whatever you wanna call it, more than conservatives. is that a fair observation? and then how do you address that? >> well, i think that's yeah, absolutely right. i think the thing with, with democrats is that they still are working out of an old paradigm. and that paradigm is not ideological. it's partly linguistic. it's the way people talk, the way politicians talk carefully parsing their positions, thinking about all the different interest groups versus populists. and we see this time and again with trump, who gets away with saying incredibly unpopular things. and there's this, the old new yorker cartoon where, you know, there's the wolf on the on the billboard and the sheep are saying, well, he tells it like it is. like he or the trump characters like, i'm going to eat you. yeah. and so somehow we've moved into this paradigm where anything that's perceived as authentic is better

than anything that's seen as explicitly political. >> they say history rhymes or whatever. you go back far enough, and i'm sure some of our our beat viewers will will remember this or know their history. you got adlai stevenson and the eggheads. you had the whole technocratic thing. you had the east coast elite thing. how is it that the democratic party, which cared about labor and civil rights and the diverse future of america that could become something durable, ended up being caricatured at as but sometimes sounding like you're back to adlai and the 50s eggheads who didn't connect with the country. >> and then gary hart in the 80s, who very explicitly said that the democrats should position themselves as technocratic, urban, aspirational, as opposed to pro-labor like mondale was probably the last properly pro-labor candidate. the part i can't quite get is biden was

incredibly pro-labor, and you understood. i think i'm not in the labor union, but i would imagine if you were in a labor union, you would understand that biden cared about you. >> well, it helped him in 20 and the primary in the general. yes. and then i don't know, because you're you know, you're a hollywood guy at the end of the day. so i don't know how showbiz how closely you follow this. but there was a perception over time that he had just become too old for the job, for sure. i don't know if you remember that. >> i have a vague memory. >> it was a thing for. >> a bit. >> it was so. then it didn't. the things that powered him in 20 were biden as biden, and he did something no other democrat has done, which is he beat trump in the electoral college, right? i can't take that from him once. and then later it was biden as old biden. and you talk about these people watching online, that he was disqualified to them in a way that similarly elderly trump was not. >> that's right. and i think the democrats wanted to talk about the inflation reduction act,

euphemistically titled bill, that did a. >> lot of. >> amazing things. and yet they were speaking about it in a way that was unable to break through. yeah. and so i think there's a communication failure that precedes a policy failure. there's a way of talking that people. there's a certain way of talking that nobody talks that way anymore, which is largely the way democrats talk. and there's a new mode of discourse that they have to embrace if they want to be heard. right. you don't have to go on these podcasts and be stupid. no. buttigieg and sanders were themselves. the questions actually rose to the level, to their level. they were smarter questions than they might have gotten asked in an editorial board meeting. they were more pertinent and more pertinent to people, and gave them the opportunity to make their points right. if you were on cnn, let's say, or on a sunday morning show, someone would be would be trying to string you up about

changing your position or policy on something or some gotcha language. they're trying to get a scoop. these guys aren't trying to do anything like that. they're trying to get at who you are as a person. and that's an incredible opportunity. >> yeah. and what you wrote and what you're saying today speaks to the other important point, which is having confidence in who you are and your ideas goes a long way. that means you can withstand jokes, attacks, even misinformation. if you go on rogan the way he is these days, there's going to be some back and forth. he's going to refer to things that aren't true, but you don't have to have your whole worldview astounded by that. you say, i get it. i get why you've heard that. let's talk about it right? rather than we couldn't possibly engage with that. well, everyone's got a phone full of misinformation, so we don't have the luxury of not engaging with that. so i thought you made some good points. as you know, i have a somewhat deadpan style. so what i said about biden's age and you being strictly hollywood were both sarcastic comments. not well. >> i appreciate the clarification. and your audience does as well. >> okay, good. michael

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bonus content, and all of your favorite msnbc shows now ad free. subscribe on apple podcasts. >> time for a special edition of fall back. and we have two special guests together msnbc's alex wagner, the enterprising anchor and reporter host of the trumpland podcast, former editor in chief of the acclaimed music magazine fader. ayo. >> ayo. >> look. at that. >> what? >> yeah. >> that's a long time ago. >> and rapper. warren g. >> pioneer of the g-funk sound who worked with tupac, doctor dre and snoop, who's a longtime collaborator on hits like ain't no fun the homies can't have none. the two also reunited just recently at the bet awards. on stage, warren g is cemented as a hip hop icon for his triple platinum album regulate g funk era, featuring the grammy nominated hit regulate. rolling stone found it one of the best west coast rap songs of all time. it peaked at number two among all genres on the billboard hot 100. with a much

imitated flow that mixed it smooth, kind of streetwise energy with the cadence of edgar allen poe. quote. it was a clear black night, a clear white moon. >> i think i'm going. >> down. >> i can't. >> believe it's happening in my own town. wings i would fly, let me. >> contemplate i glance. >> in the cut. >> and i see my. homie nate. >> funk on. >> a whole new level. >> the rhythm is the base. >> and the base is. >> the treble. >> murder was the case that they. >> gave me. falling for the trap. do a rap. that's what saved me. >> hey warren g and alex w. >> so happy. >> i don't even know how to. great to have you. >> guys together. >> i can't contain my enthusiasm. >> you didn't talk about this dj? one of my personal hits. >> but not mine. >> great to have. >> you here. >> i'm happy. >> to be here. >> yeah. we're very respect. >> well, we always go home team first. so, alex, what's on your fallback list? >> i've thrown a lot of birthday parties. >> for myself. none of them have cost $45 million. and i'd like

to thank everyone at this table that if i threw $45 million party, it would be a lot more fun. >> than. >> whatever president trump threw for himself in terms of this military parade that has cost the american. taxpayer $45 million. it is offensive for the party. >> that pretends. >> to be that of. fiscal conservatism to stomach this. it is offensive for representative democracy to be so in thrall of its dear leader that they allow these displays of military. hardware in his in honor of his ego, and not much else. but also it's just a terrible party. if you're going to throw a big party for your 7770 ninth birthday, i can't even remember which one it is at this. at this point. shouldn't it be better than that? >> yeah, and look, there are people who overspend. sometimes they end up getting bottle service, they get sparklers. and you say this was too expensive of a birthday, but at least that's their own. >> i never thought a sparkler. >> was too expensive.

>> well, that service, that service can be extra. yeah, yeah, it can be, but that's their money. your point is, he's also spending the people's money. >> spending the people's money on something that's completely unnecessary, as they're literally trying to take health care from millions of americans casting immigration dragnets that are going to have an incredibly negative effect on the american economy, to say nothing of american society. and we have what is, you know, just a stunning display of ego and selfishness. >> i think it's a fair fallback. warren g, what's on your list? i know you were looking at the trump musk feud and then musk backing down. >> i think it's just. >> two friends. >> just having a friendly. >> argument. real quick. >> and you. >> know you're ready to move. >> past it. yeah. >> you maybe didn't take it that serious because, you know, they they're both entertainers. they're both big on socials. and so they have a week where they do this. and you kind of knew they were going to keep it moving. >> yeah. but is. >> there a red line like is there. >> something your friend can't. there's something like snoop could say to you could have said to you back in the day that

would have been like, nope, we're we're not good anymore. or is it all good? >> it's all good. we all. we've been. >> around each other. >> since. >> elementary school. >> so it's. >> you know. >> we can. >> we talk. >> to each other here and there. >> but. >> you know, i might. >> be mad for. >> a second. then i'll be. >> like, look. >> you know, let's let's, you know, life. >> is. >> too short to be going back and forth. >> so. >> you know, let's, let's. >> that's generous. >> to short. >> generous friendship. >> too short. also a california rapper. >> yes, indeed. >> yes, indeed. >> that's my guy. is there. >> a question there? that is correct. >> i'm just hanging out with you guys. yeah. >> we're just talking about friendship. >> red. >> lines and snoop. >> yes, indeed. >> do you know how to spell two short alex. >> with a. >> dollar sign? >> come on. >> who do you think. >> i am? ari? >> thanks for watching the beat >> thanks for watching the beat weekend. and (wife) saving for retirement was tough enough. (husband) and navigating markets can be challenging at times. (fisher investments) i understand. that's why at fisher investments, we keep a disciplined approach with your portfolio, helping you through the market's ups and downs.

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free. text k to 231231. >> good evening and. >> welcome to. >> politics nation. >> tonight's lead. >> the decider. >> tonight, our notoriously. >> impulsive president. >> has a lot. >> of tough decisions to make as the nation. faces a crisis within. >> our borders and around. >> the world. >> hanging over. >> it all. >> is the. >> escalating war between israel and iran.