tv Morning Joe MSNBC December 14, 2010 6:00am-9:00am EST
wondering if andy got a new football coach. >> i think that's a little dig. we were supposed to get the auburn offensive coordinator, that's looking dicey right now. out to "morning joe" with a little christmas. >> well, it's been a long time since i was the new anything. >> i guess it's changing. >> yeah, it does that a lot, doesn't it? [ inaudible ] >> he lets me use the piano when he's not around, he's not around, is he? >> i can honestly say i haven't seen him. but come on in. one of the reasons i like to come on your program is that whether i agree or not with your comments, which are mainly critical, i think you made your program kind of the epicenter of
discussion of afghanistan. and i would add pakistan, which we talked about last time on television, and i think that's a very useful public service. >> all right. a friend of "morning joe" and someone widely considered one of the most brilliant and gifted diplomats of his generation, richard holbrooke, has died. good morning, everyone, it is tuesday, december 14. welcome to "morning joe." >> with us on set, msnbc and "time" magazine senior analyst maura calpern. and pulitzer-prize winning author, john meacham. mika, we were going into this event last night and got the news. >> we were at the apollo and about to get into a crowd and literally crossed our blackberries. >> yeah. just stunning. you know, he was 69. y had certainly seemed younger. >> full of life. >> a lot more energetic.
and you can't -- john, you know, we -- a lot of people had fun at richard's expense from time to time. joe biden earlier said he was the most arrogant s.o.b., and then he goes, "he's also the right guy for the job." mika and i were talking last night, diplomats have to be big men. and richard holbrooke was and what he did in dayton can never be overestimated. >> he was the last, i think, embodiment of an establishment that he understood intuitively. richard adored politics. >> uh-huh. >> one of the things people may not know is he co-authored clark clifford's memoir called "counsel to the president." a handbook for anyone who wants to understand the practicalities of power. he was called a master of the science of human relationships.
>> yes. >> right. >> he understood personal diplomacy. if he could get them in a room, he thought he could get a deal. >> right. >> he wouldn't compromise on principle, but he would get a deal. and the third i think is that he was this extraordinary humanitarian. beyond all the bluster, the toughness. >> yeah. >> he was just a terrific advocate, hiv/aids, any number of things. >> i remember him at the atlantic council event with the the president of georgia, you're much smarter about this than me. that was his approach, psychologically, you know, reverse psychology. and of course he had this fabulous ego. >> which -- and this as you are familiar -- you've got to have it. >> yeah. >> he was political. >> yeah. >> and you couldn't be as effective as he was without being political. one of the verbal jousts we had was when he was on the show and said, "well, i will let you political worry about that,"
sort of with a snicker. i said, "oh, richard, there's nothing political about you." mark halpern of the "washington post" reported that his last word, his family said his last words had to do with afghanistan. holbrooke was sedated, his final words to the pakistani surgeon, family members said, "you've got to stop this war in afghanistan." and there was a real disconnect between what richard said to the president and then what richard would say when he came on shows like ours because he had to do what the administration wanted. but his private concerns, he has been concerned about there war in afghanistan for a very long time. >> both richard and his close friend, joe biden, had private reservations about the policy. and as you said, in private argued strenuously for it. he cared so much about this country and the world and worked on it. he didn't shy away from tough problems. throughout his career he was drawn toward the toughest problems that america faced, economic, foreign policy, and
his last mission, afghanistan and pakistan, where he did have real reservations and fought really hard and tirelessly. and a lot of people watching know him. not everybody but a lot of people. everyone who knew him was touchdo touched by his life. he's going to be missed in a lot of places all over the world. >> this really has been life's work for him. hoe jo he joined the service, went to vietnam, went to the carter white house, assistant secretary of state at 35. that's how old i am and look what i'm doing. >> you should be ashamed of yourself. >> a hell of a life. >> talk about a misspent life. >> that's a parallel. all right. >> of course, i'm sure a lot of our friends that come on, friends of the show, will be talking about richard. >> absolutely. >> and are certainly -- our thoughts and prayers are with his wife and family. she's been on the job herself. >> yeah. a lot to get to this morning. obviously big news out of washington, final senate passage is expected today on the tax cut
proposal after it cleared a key hurdle last night. republicans and democrats joined forces, voting 83-14, surpassing the 60 votes needed to advance the $900 billion package. if the bill sails through the senate as expected, it would go to the house where progressive democrats remain strongly opposed to continuing tax breaks for upper income households, as well as what they call a generous 35% estate tax. the president acknowledged those concerns but urged his party to consider the consequences. >> taken as a whole, the bill that the senate will allow to proceed does some very good things for america's economy and the american people. first and foremost, it is a substantial victory for middle-class families crass the country who would no longer have to worry about a massive tax hike come january 1. i urge the house of representatives to act quickly on this important matter.
if there's one thing we can agree on, it's the urgent work of protecting middle-class families, removing uncertainty for america's businesses and giving our economy a boost as we head into the new year. >> and robert gibbs, for the first time, responded to the nearly nine-hour filibuster led by independent vermont senator bernie sanders in protest of the tax deal. >> let me address -- just what you said about sanders. look, i think the president the would be the first to agree that there are -- there are aspects this that he doesn't like. rather than threaten our economic recovery, the president believed that this bipartisan agreement was the best way to go. >> you know, so much of this white house has to do with tone. and i talked to former press secretaries and former
presidents over the past two years, and they all understand that the press secretary does the president's bidding. >> right. >> they've been concerned by roberts' approach the first two years. that's changed markedly since the offyear elections, sorts of this pit bull persona has gone away, and he's back to the robert that we loved during the campaign. there is -- i know the president the's tacking wildly right now, right? but just the tone. he didn't lash out at bernie sanders, and he hasn't been lashing out at people on the right. and as buchanan says, said of nixon, you know, you go out there and say what the old man tells you to say. this seems to be a white house right now emotionally more at peace with themselves. >> i think that's right. i think that -- i continue to believe and people don't agree
with this, this was never an ideological white house. >> oh, you're wrong. >> i know. it just wasn't. these were not -- this was not -- >> so what -- >> i just -- >> so what was it because they were the most progressive despite -- >> they were goal oriented. >> despite what bloggers write, they were the most aggressive administration since lbj. >> sure. within the constraints that we've talked about, that the country is essentially center right. yes, they were progressive, but in context. >> uh-huh. >> and i continue to believe that it was a very successful job on the part of the conservative opposition to cast the president as more radical than he was. >> the president, i believe, is deeply, deeply ideological. and there's no problem with that. reagan, i believe, was ideological. look at the tax cut deal. overwhelming support for it. the halpern theory burst through again. but that's fascinating that you look at everything the president
did over the past two years, and you don't think he's ideological. >> i think it goes -- >> again, i'm not knocking him. listen, i like people who -- >> i don't think he is a doctrineaire liberal, i don't. >> what happened the first two years? i don't want to do too much looking backward because i was talking to a senator, democratic senator yesterday, who said they're trying to figure out what he believes. >> i think what happened is on crisis footing from day one. he hitched his wagon to the liberal leaders of the democratic party on capitol hill. >> yeah. >> and dared republicans to oppose him. >> you don't think he's an ideological leader? >> i don't. >> really? i find this fascinating two years later -- >> well, if halpern says it -- >> come on. halprin is gunning for an obama interview. the first two weeks have been shameless. >> i'm calling it as i see it.
>> i know. >> i think next year you will see the president prove to you that he's not a doctrinaire liberal. >> ask paul krugman -- >> seriously? no, ask him if barney frank is a liberal. he probably thinks barney frank is too conservative. >> look at the way he could have done financial regulation. could have done is in a much more liberal way. >> okay. >> financial reform, health care, stimulus -- >> don't ask, don't tell. adoption. >> guns. >> yeah. >> seriously. >> and a recess halfway through, the president evolving as he learns to deal with a very difficult opposition. >> i think more importantly, mika, than even ideology -- and we're talking about ideology -- but so much of what happens is tone. we have been critical of day one. remember carville did a push poll to see who the most unpopular republican was and they found it was rush limbaugh
before obama went in there. and they trashed limbaugh. then they trashed jim kramer. then they trashed glenn beck. then they trashed fox news. this was a strategy i guess to keep the base agenda, but that isn't what got him elected in iowa. it was rising above that. i think it's good. it looks like that's what they're doing. they're going to need to keep their lead heads with this hea care. >> i think it was less to get their base up than it was to destroy the republican party. >> maybe so. >> the health care law that the president passed suffered its first major legal setback after a federal judge in virginia called part of it unconstitutional. u.s. district judge henry hudson, a george w. bush appointye, ruled that congress overstepped its authority by requiring americans to buy health insurance. >> i'm curious, and it was our staff that did it. i am curious whether there is a controversial issue -- memorial
meacham, you know this is true -- they will always say a george w. bush appointee. >> you don't think it's legitimate. >> it would be and -- john, you know this to be true -- when a democratic appointee does something unpopular, they never say clinton appointee, never, never. >> why is that, john? >> mention it to me next time. >> why is that, john? >> i think that it shows a certain tendency to caricature the right. >> okay. >> i think at this point it just offers perspective as to what that judge's point of view might be. >> well, if you could offer perspective on the other side -- >> you point it out to me when we've missed it, i'll be happy to be open-minded. >> let's find out what judge hudson's senate confirmation was. find the numbers. i bet it was 90-10. >> however, since the plan's minimum coverage requirement isn't scheduled to take effect until 2014, the law is going to remain in effect while further
appeals play out. >> yep. >> it is a -- a pretty critical setback. >> it is. and robert gibbs predicts the administration will eventually prevail if the fight makes its way to the supreme court. >> i love that. >> first and foremost, obviously, the administration argued on the other side of this case and disagrees with the ruling. we're confident that it is constitutional and, quite frankly, of the three courts that have rendered decisions on this question, two have ruled in our favor. >> obviously the president is going to be fighting this. the health care bill remains abc -- at least abc was reporting yesterday -- more unpopular than ever before. i don't know how much they want to weigh into this, but we'll see. mika, chris has the president's latest approval rating -- >> right. put them up again. they're at an all-time low. but they have been throughout the past many months. we've been saying on the show here, surprisingly high.
what do you make -- >> it's just a snapshot. i got to say, though, i got to say and -- this is a bloomberg poll, does he deserve to be re-elected? 42%. while washington is applauding this health care bill, i've got to say even among republicans, tax cuts for millionaires. doesn't make sense. the ideologues will say cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. but republicans like myself will say, well, instead of giving millionaires this continuation of the bush tax cuts, move that to eliminating capital gains for two years or some way that's going to spur business more. i just -- i think and we've disagreed on this -- >> i know -- is it okay to take a moral stand at this time, or does the republican not say that? >> i mean, you wouldn't know, would you? but -- >> i think that when the president proposes substantial deficit reduction next year he's going to include a surcharge tax on millionaires.
then he can have the fight -- >> next year? >> next year. >> why not this year? >> a couple months from now. >> next year's a month away. >> why not -- >> if you're a historian of "morning joe," you'll know that he said all summer that december it was the tough choices. this target's moving, john. i mean, mark -- >> you mean calendarically? >> i didn't go to harvard so i'm sure it is moving that way. >> he did try it with the commission, it didn't work. he's got the another chance. >> i want to talk about, quickly, we went to this great mccartney event. >> my gosh, last night. >> serious -- x.m. sirius put on at the apollo. it was a followup, just a followup. you asked me, how was his voice. because "snl," it wasn't good. >> huh-uh. >> but it was a mixing or the monitors or something because i got to tell you, i've seen mccartney half a dozen times. and last night his voice was the best it's ever been. >> and he looked amazing.
>> it was incredible. >> yeah. we'll talk about that later. maybe in "news you can't use." >> it sounds like one of those beatlemania commercials. no, it was great. >> did you throw your underwear at him? >> when i go to a mccartney concert, i never wear it. >> oh, gosh. >> you know? a shoe. i threw the shoes. coming up, former british prime minister gordon brown, virginia governor bob mcdonnell, republican senator john ensign, and former white house chief of staff andy card. >> by the way, ensign voted against the bill and said it would blow a trillion dollar hole in the deficit. >> there you go. coming up, business on the go headlines. who's quietly urging senator joe lieberman to run for a fifth term? first, we'll go to bill karins with a check of the forecast. bill? >> i got new respect for commando joe. a new nickname. >> no. let's talk about the
forecast. a little surprise snow for our friends on long island. heard reports of three to four inches in nassau county. new york city got a dusting. sidewalks are icy. the roads have been salted. hopefully they're okay. it's a very cold morning out there. windchills are in the single digits today. we don't even get up to 30 in really any of the big cities. watch out for heavy lake-effect snow near buffalo. one of the big stories, what's happening in florida. it's 29 in orlando, the freezing line is all the way down to lake okeechobee, even miami at the 37. damage is being done to the oranges and the strawberries and the spinach crops this morning. you'll feel it in the markets in the weeks ahead. the rest of the country, look at the windchill currently. 10 in new york. minus 6 in chicago. this right now is the peak of the arctic blast. from here on out we'll warm it up toward the weekend. today's forecast, just bundle up if you're east of the rockies. the west coast, you're getting drenched with a lot of heavy rain.
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the bill for an officer who died while breathing toxic dust at ground zero. it would set up a fund to treat illnesses for those working at ground zero and compensate sufferers for economic losses. aka, the least we can do/no brainer act of 2010. [ laughter ] >> since republicans took to the floor to discuss the dream act and took to the floor to discuss don't ask, don't tell, i can't wait to see them take to the floor to talk about why their party hates first responders. i know what it is -- it's the calendars, isn't it, fellas? >> all right. 22 past the hour. >> boy, that's unfortunate.
>> the calendars? >> no, republican senators. >> yes, that's true. you've said that many times before. let's start with the morning papers now. "los angeles times," president obama met the back-to-back champion los angeles lakers. >> there's a basketball team. >> i know that. instead of going to the white house, they joined the president for communities service at the boys and girls club of greater washington. >> that's a great idea. >> very nice. cool. >> i love that. >> cool. >> and "the arizona daily star," law of lunchrooms changed. yesterday, president obama signed into law changes to school lunches as parts of the administration's wide effort to combat childhood obesity. >> excellent. >> let me say it so you don't have to -- >> thank you. >> i'm sure willie will agree, if tax dollars are paying for schoolroom lunches, they better be healthy for our kids. >> every child deserves a good meal. >> unanimously consent. >> thank you, joe. >> nothing like a big tater tot. >> "new york times,"
underperforming teachers in new york city no longer guaranteed tenure. an elaborate system asks principals to vigorously rate prospective lifetime school employees on their performance in and outside of the classroom. >> i love it. >> i think -- >> outside. >> there's studies that show this other states that this makes a difference. so -- >> well, i love that. time now for your business on the go. let's go to cnbc headquarters in new jersey. >> did this in florida, as well. >> i know, that's where i saw the study. >> they're going to pass ---en the tenure in florida. >> there you go. let's get our headlines. "business on the go." nicole? take it away. how you doing? what you got? great, good morning, guys. a few market-moving reports coming out. i want to alert you to. the first polls track on inflation is coming out with producer prices. we look ahead to retail sales. yes, it's the holiday and yes, it's cyber-monday, green monday, manic monday, whatever you want to call it, but economic data of all shapes and sighs,
including -- sizes, including retail sales numbers, have been quite strong. if things are doing great -- >> that's good. >> yes, "morning joe," dow joe, investors want to know, why did the fed then need to keep buying up treasuries, joe? >> i think, mika, we need to call this -- and nicole has labeled it. she's brilliant. >> yes. >> we're going to -- >> she must have gone to northwestern. >> called it the dow joe. >> that wouldn't exemplify any ego. >> no. >> it's a sort of -- >> branding. >> branding. >> brand the recovery. >> nicole, thank you. >> good idea. >> thanks. we'll see you tomorrow. you talk too much because you -- >> everyone starts talking. she goes -- we've got 12 seconds in the window. >> that's because you jabber away too much. you need to be quiet. you need shut your pie hole so we can move on. >> pie hole. do you know how to do that? >> you don't hear that enough. pie hole. >> chris? i thought that she wasn't supposed to yell at us this way
until friday after the week. >> we did have that conversation. she's jumping the gun. >> really? we have, meacham, a meeting every friday -- >> no, we don't. this is an exaggeration. >> swear to god. no, chris will tell you. we sit on the couch -- >> we had one meeting. >> chris is here and i'm here. she stands over us and goes through the week yelling. >> that's just no -- >> mel gibson. >> we had one bad week where you all needed seriously to take a look in the mirror. >> it happens every friday. >> and someone needed to say it. >> chris, does it happen every friday? >> damn right i did. >> it's off the calendar. >> get ready. bundle up. >> ass whooping by mika, friday, 10:00 a.m. don't be late. >> we could just do it now if you'd like. >> no. more of an offcamera thing. >> you brought it on camera, so we're saying, why don't you wait. >> could willie tell us what judge hudson's vote in the senate was? >> okay. >> are you doing the tough --
did you just do that, meacham? >> researched in the break and got emails. unanimous consent for judge hudson in 2002. >> a george w. bush appointee. >> works for a public p.r. firm. >> john? good morning. >> good to see you. >> a few weeks ago you were ranting and rave, telling us about the grim 2012 re-election prospects for joe lieberman. >> crazy talk. >> now you say some on the hill are urging him to run. who's doing it? >> katie couric writing for you guys now? >> we hoped that you hadn't remembered that previous article. it's still true, but -- he definitely has uncertain prospects in 2012. but right here at the end of 2010, joe lieberman finds him the toast of capitol hill. two years ago, he was so unpopular, democrats didn't even want him at their weekly caucus meetings. lieberman didn't really want to go. now everybody is courting -- it's a closely divided senate,
everybody, both sides, courting joe lieberman, trying to make nice. he's loving it. democrats reaching out, saying he's welcome to rejoin the party. they hope he will in 2012. republicans, even john cornyn, who heads the republican senate committee, said he's had friendly banter with lieberman. >> wow. this is fascinating because his approval rating in the state of connecticut -- i'm rounding up here -- is three. i'm just trying to figure out why either party would want joe lieberman. i'm not knocking him -- >> what -- >> no, he's -- his approval rate regula ings are low. >> it's a closely divided senate. they want him for every vote. he's loving the role of being in the middle. >> even jim dement said, "we'd love to have him," of joe lieberman. >> that's good. >> thank you very much. we'll talk to you later. >> see you in a couple of hours. coming up, an unscheduled monday night doubleheader. first the vikings lose their stadium. and then their quarterback.
brett favre's streak is over. date back, 1992. >> where were you in 1992 when brett favre last did not play? >> september 20, 1992? ridgewood high school. >> were you really? >> going door to door -- >> covering bill clinton. >> what about you? >> i was covering the -- i was at the "chattanooga times." >> wow. mika? >> what year? >> 1992. >> junior high. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. executor of efficiency. you can spot an amateur from a mile away... while going shoeless and metal-free in seconds. and you...rent from national.
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♪ back to "morning joe." we are showing you the absolutely moving, gorgeous -- >> sparkling -- >> rockefeller plaza tree. the last year for the g.e. commerce tree. next year will be the comcast -- cabletown. >> green is universal. >> we're looking forward to that. a quick look at the news -- >> by the way, does tina fey write the "30 rock" scripts two days before? timely. >> ripped from today's headlines. >> they are ripped from the headlines. >> alec baldwin was at the concert. >> yes, he was. >> didn't say hi to me, but said hi to you. >> no -- >> were you surprised? >> no, you were busy. i was happy to see him. didn't even know he remembered
us. nice. >> keith richards was there. >> was he really? standing? >> no -- there -- >> there was somebody from the "wedding crashers" there that excited joe. >> will ferrell. >> the most famous comedian in the world, you mean? >> perhaps the lawrence olivier of our time. >> okay. tony bennett was there. >> tony bennett. >> tony bennett. still kicking. >> no, this was great. this was a great concert. >> nice. >> is there anybody there who wasn't famous? >> yeah. >> it was weird. martha stewart took our picture. i got the that was like a weird moment. i didn't understand what was going on. it was really fun. i've never been to anything like it in my life. >> it was -- >> glamorous. >> it was glamorous. great. >> what were we doing there? >> you were adding gravitasse glamor. >> opened with the magical mystery tour. his voice was as good as it's ever been. >> he's very physically fit. >> seriously.
"saturday night live" -- paul mccartney. unbelievable. >> don't do this to me meacham. >> okay. >> oak ridge boys, come on, man, keep up. >> garth brooks. >> andy gibb. >> no. >> singing senator -- >> we just -- >> willie wanted to -- >> are there pictures of last night? guess we won't show them. >> we would show them if we did them in a place where we were supposed to do the story. >> right. here's sports with willie. >> big baseball news. cliff lee, the most coveted pitcher in baseball. yankees, red sox, rangers, no. he pulled a fast one on everybody. he's going back to the philadelphia phillies. cliff lee, the man everybody wanted. and guess what, he's doing it for less money and for fewer years than either the yankees or rangers were giving him. >> you know -- >> turned his back on the money. >> did you read in the "times" who the last man to do this was in a big way? greg maddux, 1993. >> that's right. spurned the yankees. >> turned down the yankees for the braves. >> likes a good cheesecake.
>> yes. >> they don't like it when players aren't clamoring to join the deal. don't feel bad, five years, $100 million. yankees were offering seven years, $150 million. lee was on the phillies in 2009 but was traded to seattle so that the phillies could bring in roy halladay. so the philadelphia rotation, roy halladay, roy oswalt, coy h hamills and cliff lee. >> if those guys stay healthy through the year, who beats them? >> red sox-phillies. two great lineups. let's talk football. yesterday we showed you pictures from minneapolis. sunday the roof gave. caved in at the metrodome in the twin cities. giants and vikings were supposed to play there, but they had to move the game to detroit on a hand night. but the big news last night, the streak officially over. brett favre declared inactive for the game between the giants and vikings because of a shoulder injury that ends his
consecutive game starting streak at 297. the largest in nfl history. he last missed a start on september 20, 1992. unbelievable. on the field, the giants running all over the vikings in detroit. here ahmad bradshaw, 48-yard touchdown run. giants beat minnesota 21-3. they're tied with the eagles in the nfc east. after the game, favre looked back on his streak. >> i think as a kid, goals, dreams, i far exceeded all those that i had. so i never dreamed of playing 300-plus straight games. i just dreamed of playing in the nfl. >> favre wasted no time capitalizing on his streak. as soon as he was announced inactive, his official web site began offering signed footballs inscribed with the number 297. a nice stocking stuffer at $500. >> let the me ask you this, i'm just curious about this. these guys -- and i don't knock them making all the money they make because, guess what, it's a
free market. and if people are going to pay -- why do they like sign footballs and -- he's got all the money he's going to ever need. right? >> it's a little pathetic that he's doing it. i get why some of the old-time players did it, they didn't make the big money. they can make money now. brett favre doesn't need it. >> i never understood why people did this. >> make more money. get a taste for money, i'm told. >> you know what? it's the republican tax cut. the obama tax cut. >> appointee. george w. bush. >> a tax cut for millionaires he gets to keep 65% of it. >> the other game, ravens kept it in the third quarter, then in the fourth back come the texans. with a few seconds left, the quarterback rolls right, finds andre johnson who gets it to the end zone. great catch, boom. texans get the two-point conversions, tied it at 28.
pushed it to overtime. you hate to see a game end this way after a nice comeback in. overtime, dropping back. just can't throw this one, young man. right into the waiting arms of josh wilson. walks it in for the game-win be touchdown. 34-28, ravens win, 9-1. one game behind the steelers. >> quick football question. if you didn't reside in texas or baltimore, why would you watch that game? >> a lot of people like watching ray lewis, the ravens defense. >> when they hit -- >> didn't do that. >> what? >> kill anybody. >> i was talking he hit so hard, man, he's going to kill him. >> you watch for the love of of the game or because you had money wagered on it. >> that's it. >> seriously -- >> what else, willie? >> many, many people watch for money. >> keep it moving on. auburn quarterback cam newton -- >> has he been arrested? >> won the heisman. taking some victory laps in new york city last night on "the late show with david letterman"
doing the top ten. >> top ten things cam newton can say now that he is your 2010 heisman trophy winner. number three -- >> i'm not playing in the national championship game. i have a math quiz the next day. >> a math quiz. [ applause ] >> it's a quiz. number two -- >> even i have no idea how the heck this bcs works. >> yeah. nobody knows. and the number-one thing cam newton can say now that he's won the heisman trophy -- >> need to see i.d., how about this -- [ applause ] >> yeah. >> that's nice. >> cute. >> cam newton. >> i'm serious what you -- >> he seems like -- what's the deal? >> what do you think? >> you know, he didn't know anything. it was just his father. these things happen so fast, joe. as you know. up next -- >> right. >> the best. >> you turn around -- >> that's right. who would have seen the ncaa
investigators coming? they've been swarming the campus for five years, pete carroll was shot. seriously. are they going to find -- anyway. we'll see. >> there's a lot of smoke. >> i wish him luck. >> he's a great athlete. >> he should go pro and put it behind him. >> yeah. quickly. up next, embattled rnc chairman michael steele announces he will seek re-election. >> that's not going to go well. >> his reason for running coming up. and mika's opinion pages. ♪ [ male announcer ] open up a cadillac during our season's best sales event. and receive the gift of asphalt. experience the cadillac of crossovers, the striking srx. it's the one gift you can open up all year long. see your cadillac dealer for this attractive offer.
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i think that the work we began on behalf of the party will continue as we set our sights to 2012 and what we hope will be the election of a republican president in 2012. >> i think we have a chance to move forward in a very aggressive way to take on the obama administration and his agenda. that's what we're going to do. my style is different than most conventional republican party chairmen. my style is inner grassroots oriented. i'm more of a street guy, i prefer the boardrooms but am it the neighborhoods and communities. >> welcome back. that was michael steele saying he will continue to fight. even though there's like five others who want to -- >> yeah. so what's his problem? >> he's too straight. i've run into that a lot. >> you have? >> i think you'll be fine. >> mike brassco was straight, too -- >> i own the strip from the garage to zebars.
that's my block. >> okay. >> p.j. clark's, all the way to magnolia bakery. if you come into my hood, you're going to pay the piper, okay. it's my hood. and keep your hands -- seriously. keep your hands off my cupcakes. >> ooh. all right. >> we have things to -- they have cream inside. >> an italian doughnut place. >> what's it called? >> boboni's. >> he's avoiding the fact that i've choen h chosen his piece i politico, op-ed, because we did a piece on no labels, check it out at nolabels.org. >> a big fan -- >> we talked about hyper bipartisanship and the way forward for this country. and we brought up joe's piece that he had just posted on line in politico. >> i need to lose weight. >> yesterday.
you look all right. you could lose 20 pounds. okay. so let's go to your column. "gop budget hawks chicken out early." how could republicans who campaigned on fiscal restraint eagerly champion a stimulus bill that puts us deeper in debt than the one nancy pelosi drew up in 2009? easy, the president waved tax cuts in front of republican leaders like pavlov's dogs. they began to drool when the salivating stops, america will be $1 trillion deeper in debt to china. are you surprised by their duplicity? after all, in 2001 republicans inherited a $155 billion surplus and turned it into a $1 trillion deficit. for now. there is little difference between republicans and democrats when it comes to taking care of this country's long-term fiscal health. i wish both parties, both parties, the best of luck in the 2012 elections. judging from last week's pathetic performance, they will both need it. so what i asked when you were writing this is what would you
have done differently this time around. and you did have an answer for that. >> sure. i mean -- i talk about it in the piece. you send a message to the bond markets across the world. you send a message to everybody, to our allies and our foes alike, that we're not going to be like greece and ireland. we're -- if we're going -- we're going to extend unemployment benefits, we're going to pay for it. if we're going to extend tax cuts, we're going to pay for it. we haven't done that. and these republicans that come on this show and say you got to pay for unemployment benefits but you don't have to offset the $600 billion or so in revenue that you're going to lose, that the cbo says you're going to lose to tax cuts are reckless. i want to call out charles ch t krauthammer, the first to call this, other than us, president obama's economic stimulus package. john ensign said he couldn't vote for something that blew a trillion dollar hole in the deficit. coburn, ensign, demint, and voinovich. >> there you go. your honor roll.
>> an honor roll of five. seriously, the hypocrisy of it, john meacham, is stunning to me. another trillion dollars. now i thought the first stimulus package was bad because they added $800 billion. >> right. you're right. >> there you go. >> i bring a pulitzer nobel peace prize winner on. that's all you got for me? >> you should take it and run. >> exactly. i wouldn't mock that. still ahead -- no. >> a comment about what are the republicans thinking? >> it's happening in three months, joe. just be -- >> my gosh. okay. still ahead, former white house chief of staff andy card will be on the show. and willie, what's next? >> good times. remember 1977? bing crosby, david bowie? >> great. >> getting together around the piano. we've got an updated version for you. ♪ [ male announcer ] if you've had a heart attack caused by a completely blocked artery,
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and like that, we had a new side to our business. [ male announcer ] when businesses see an opportunity, the hartford is there. protecting their employees and property and helping them prepare for the future. nice boots. nice bag. [ male announcer ] see how the hartford helps businesses at achievewhatsahead.com. it better be time to talk -- >> it is. tim for news you can't use. you know what we want to do first? mark a very special anniversary today. >> whose? a birthday? >> two years ago this happened. >> what? oh. >> crowd noise. [ scream ] >> that was hard to believe it was two years ago. >> two years ago. >> what a day. >> that's actually how haley barbour's confidante joe --
>> joseph. >> how he spend his birthdays with a shoe on a birthday cake. >> ducking shoes thrown at him by friends and neighbors. happy birthday. >> happy birthday, joe. >> happy birthday. >> we're going to "the view." >> want to do "the view"? >> john boehner, we played the clip. he was weepy. fine, leave him alone. >> an amazing story. he is an -- >> there's a point to be made that i think you will like, what if nancy pelosi had gone through and sobbed? let's watch. let's watch. >> you could not keep -- he could not keep himself from getting really emotional. take a look. >> this guy had an, emotional -- has an emotional problem that every time he talks about anything that's not raise taxes he cries. and if you had seen nancy pelosi all these past years crying, what would you say? >> she's weak. can't handle the pressure. >> so when -- i hope he's a good speaker of the house. he's got a problem. >> i think that it's interesting
to watch him cry. there's -- i've been watching him now. we call him the weeper of the house. and he -- he cries -- >> there you go. >> tough. >> what do you think, mika? he ought to be able to cry if he wants to. a free country. >> i wouldn't do, it but you know -- >> it's a little glenn beck-y. no, that's fair. it is -- it is i -- i think that there is a modicum of realty and a modicum of letting it happen. >> you can't do that. what do you think this is, "broadcast news"? >> you think he's faking it? >> no, i think he doesn't hold back because he had an incredible story and it's emotional. i think the point about nancy pelosi is fabulous. kind of writing a book about this. i got to tell you. there are different rules for men and women. while crying for him can be effective, it would not be for a female politician.
at all. maybe once. maybe hillary in new hampshire was okay at that time. but it wasn't. it was picked apart. >> what faif boehner tried to wr three-inch heels? >> come on. >> not a good point. >> come on. seriously? give him a break. let him do it if he wants to. i think it helps actually with the swing voters. do you remember 1977? let's look at the this photograph right here. this was a magical moment in the history of christmas, if i may be so bold. >> you may. >> bing crosby -- >> that was david bowie's android stage. >> bing crosby on the right, david bowie. an unlikely duo getting together to sing "little drummer boy." right before crosby's death in 1977. >> a month before. >> yesterday, will ferry, john c. riley, partners in crime, came out with a shot-for-shot remake. same lines -- >> spooky. >> same home. same everything. john c. riley as bing crosby. will ferrell as david bowie.
♪ our newborn king to see pa rum pa pum pum ♪ ♪ our finest gifts we bring pa rum pa pum pum ♪ ♪ pa rum pa pum pum ♪ peace on earth ♪ pa rum pa pum pum ♪ can it be >> pretty little thing. >> nice. >> bobby, you have a merry christmas. >> it's bowie. david [ bleep ] bowie. >> and it's bing [ bleep ] crosby, pal. >> um -- ♪ >> it is amazing. going watch this and then watch the original one. it's amazing. >> that was the only part that was different.
>> by the way, if you don't have an itunes, get the original song. one of the best ever. >> yeah. up next, senator john ensign of nevada and andy card next. etfs? exchange traded funds? don't just give me ten or twenty to choose from. come on. td ameritrade introduces commission-free etfs with a difference-- more choice. over a hundred etfs.... ...chosen by the unbiased experts at morningstar associates. let me pick what works for me. for me. for me. the etf market center at td ameritrade. before investing, carefully consider the fund's investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses. contact td ameritrade for a prospectus containing
going to have to be able to sit down at the table like adults, discuss issues like adults, come out of that room and get results for the american people like adults. i think if adulthood can break out, that's a good thing. >> oh, did he say what would break out? adulthood? grish us -- gracious, in washington? welcome back to "morning joe." that is a beautiful shot of the capitol. >> when i say it's a beautiful shot, you stay on the shot. >> we were trying to -- >> look at the pastel skies. that is a beautiful picture. >> like a painting. >> i'm not sure when they got the ticker at the bottom -- >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> the founders added it -- >> seriously -- >> that's the airport. >> pretty from the airport. >> wow. mark halprin and john meacham joining us. joining us from capitol hill, republican senator from nevada, senator john ensign, who was one of the five republicans to vote
against advancing the tax bill. and also in washington, former white house chief of staff andy card. gentlemen, thanks to you both for being with us. >> why don't you take us through the tax cut deal. >> yeah. >> then we'll go to our guests. >> go round. the tax cut proposal cleared a key hurdle last night and is expected to pass through the senate today. if it sails through as expected, it would go to the house where progressives remain strongly opposed to continuing tax breaks for upper income households, as well as what they call a generous 35% estate tax. the president acknowledged those concerns. >> taken as a whole, the bill that the senate will allow to proceed does some very good things for america's economy and the american people. first and foremost, it is a substantial victory for middle-class families across the country who would no longer have to worry about a massive tax hike come january 1. i urge the house of representatives to act quickly on this important matter because if there's one thing we can
agree on, it's the urgent work of protecting middle-class families, removing uncertainty for america's businesses, and giving our economy a boosta we head into the new year. >> you know, you look at this debate, there's certainly hypocrisy -- >> on both sides. >> both sides. and we've got two great guests to bring that out with us. first is john ensign. friend of mine, good friend of mine. came in with me in 1994. john, i was heartened to see that you voted against this bill and even more excited to hear why you did it. you've got real concerns, as do i, and tom coburn and others that came in with us in '94, with a trillion additional dollars borrowed from china. what is the long-term impact of borrowing a trillion dollars from china every two years that we want to have a new stimulus bill? >> well, and that's exactly the problem is that we have a short-term mentality in this country instead of a longer term
mentality. short term, is this going to help the economy, yes, it is. no question it will short term. but the longer term effects to the economy because of the extra borrowing, the higher interest rates that we're going to have to pay, moody's just threatened today to downgrade the united states bond rating. that means that we'll pay higher borrowing costs. we're already paying over $200 -- >> john, let me ask you, did they just do that? did moody's just do that in response to the vote? >> yes. exactly. and they actually said because of this tax bill, that moody's is threatening to down grade our aaa rating which is disastrous. >> can i ask you something? you get it. tom coburn gets it. jim demint gets it. voipvich gets it. who am i leaving off? >> romney, sarah palin -- >> sessions gets it. this isn't that difficult. we've got examples of greece, ireland, closer to home, california. what don't they get on the hill
that awe keyou can't keep borro trillion dollars? >> what should have been done? what was a better option? >> well, there's no question we should not be raising taxes on anybody. i think we can all agree on that now during an economic downturn. but there's new taxes in this bill, there's spending in this bill that should have been offset. we should have at least said to the world, we're serious about deficit reduction. well the's do a couple hundred billion dollars in offsets, spending cuts. go back to the 2008 levels. tom wcoburn and i have co-parre legislation, we're hoping -- co-sponsored legislation, we're hoping to get an amendment, programs at the bush administration and the obama administration, waste programs. there's literally over $100 billion in cuts that we can make. wasting government spending. you all hear about wasteful government spending, when it comes time to vote on it, the people seem to hide from the votes. we need to get serious about deficit reduction. >> no doubt about it, amen.
charles krauthammer called this a second stimulus package and said there were egregious examples. i think he talked about a windmill subsidy or something like that. i mean, why would people -- >> well, there's ethanol subsidies in there. there's all kinds -- even the payroll tax, whether you agree or not, that's a new tax cut that should have been paid for. if you want to do this, this is different even than it was ten years ago. we have a $14 trillion debt. we're seeing economies around the world where they've taken on too much debt and are starting to collapse. the difference with the united states and countries like greece and ireland, we don't have the european union to bail us out. if we go down, the rest of the world's economy comes down with us. and that's why we have to get serious about this debt. this debt can literally destroy this country. >> it can, and andy card, when we start going over that cliff, it all happens very quickly. i want to talk about hypocrisy now on the democratic side. for eight years, we've been hearing that the bush tax cuts
destroyed this country in every way imaginable. over the past week, we've had the democratic president who ran against bush tax cuts embracing them and saying that if we raise taxes, it would destroy this economy. >> well, first of all, it was important for congress to -- and it is important for congress to finish acting this week to -- hopefully today and tomorrow, to put these tax increases on hold because that's what would have happened. the taxes would have gone up for every american. and this compromise is not the best, but it's good. and perfectly good is what we need right now to stimulate this economy. >> are you not concerned about the fact that as senator ensign reported right now, moody's has already downgraded us. our threat -- threatened to downgrade us because they've added another trillion dollars to our debt? >> that assumes that we're going on spend all the money that we are taking -- going to spend all the money that we're taking in.
i think congress should say, we have cut taxes, we've got to cut spending. there will be opportunities for congress to cut spending over the course of the next three years. >> why haven't they done it up until now? >> hey, first of all, we don't have the right congress there to cut spending right now. we're going to have a different congress in january. on january 3. it's going to make a big difference. so yes, i'm supporting the discipline that senator ensign wants to bring to congress. i think that discipline will show up in january. it's not there today. and i would have preferred a better deal. but this is a perfectly good deal. >> okay. so joe, forgive me, but if -- i'm reminded correctly, when the president was pushing through the stimulus, the big argument on the side of the republicans was how are you going to pay for it, how are you going to pay for it. why aren't the republicans asking the same question about their own policies? >> we heard for two years that the stimulus bill was reckless -- >> right. >> it spent too much -- >> uh-huh. >> put us into debt. >> that's correct. >> it was called the pork-ulus
spending bill. and it was $800 million. >> how much is this? >> this is $950 billion. >> where's the outcry? >> john ensign, where's the outcry? >> listen, i was criticizing republicans during the bush administration. president bush had the right tax policies, but we spent too much money during the bush years. and it wasn't nearly as bad. you said that democrats ran against that. i mean, that was mild compared to what we've had for the last couple of years. but when are we going to get serious about this, you know, spending cuts? everybody talks about it, in generic terms. but when we actually get specific with spending cut proposals, i have been offering amendment after amendment for the last couple of years, and we get, you know, maybe 20, 25 votes. i don't care whether it's republicans or whether it's democrats. the debt is an american problem, and we need to look at it as americans and not as republicans or democrats and who has the political advantage or not. we need to get serious about this because we are going to destroy the very country that has been so good to all of us.
admiral mullen, the chairman of the joint chiefs, said the greatest threat to the united states is not from al qaeda. it's from our debt. because if we have too much debt in this country, we cannot project the kind of military force that we need to in the world. we cannot have the kind of foreign policy that we need. because we don't have a strong enough economy. this debt can be a serious, long-term threat to our economy. >> it is. >> and that's why i don't think that we should have gone forward with this stimulus bill the way that it is. we should be cutting spending at the same time as keeping tax rates the same. >> let's bring in -- i couldn't agree more, john. john meacham. >> i want to ask andy, the senator said we spent too much money in the bush years. you were there. do you agree? >> in part, yes. i mean, we also had to build our way out of a recession by cutting taxes and stimulating the economy, then we had that horrible attack on september 11. and we had to mount two wars or at least a war on two significant fronts, afghanistan
and iraq. and there was a lot of spending done there. and yes, the president pushed through medicare prescription drug coverage for seniors. he also pushed through education reforms. and yes, congress was predispoed to spend more than even the president wanted. so, you know, it was a spending time during the bush years. even though the president tried to bring discipline, and i think he did in a number of areas. >> wait. andy, i've got the to stop threw, buddy. we fought two wars. we had two massive tax cuts. we added $8 trillion to a medicare system already going bankrupt. with the largest increase in domestic discretionary spending since lbj. we had the largest increase in military spending since lbj. there -- the recklessness during the first six years of bush -- >> was not reckless. >> it was ugly. >> that's not a credible statement. >> what do you mean that's not a credible statement, andy? it's a matter of record. >> first of all, you fight a war to win a war.
you support the troops that are out there fighting a war. >> do you pay for wars or do you just borrow the money from the chinese to fight your wars? >> you fight the war and then you worry about paying for it. >> is it the same with tax cuts, andy? do you give tax cuts while you're fighting wars and worry about that later, too? >> the president inherited a recession. and then we had the shock of september 11 which created another recession in our country. the tax cuts came at the right time to keep america working. >> so you don't pay for it there either. what about the $8 trillion medicare drug plan. do you pay for that or say you know what, we need seniors voting for us, we'll add $8 trillion to a medicare system that's already going under? >> it was a social reform that was important. congress wanted to do even more than the president the wanted to do. i thought the president was restrained and -- yes, it was historic. >> there's always something. >> well, so and now we have barack obama coming in -- >> there's always something. >> we have to pass a stimulus bill and these bailouts are -- we got to pass a stimulus bill and we've got to pass a bailout
bill. we've got to pass -- >> senator ensign -- >> and that bills -- >> we need more discipline in washington. i want government to work. i'm optimistic that the republicans that will take control of the house will give more backbone to the congressional branch. >> well -- >> of our government. and hopefully cause the president to wake up and deal with the realty of the economic crisis. >> let me ask john ensign. john, it is a matter of historical record that republicans took $155 billion surplus and turned it into a $1 trillion deficit. they doubled the national debt during the bush term. is there any reason why we should believe as small government conservatives that these republicans coming in are going to be any different? >> i think what you saw in the election, that republicans better have learned their lesson because i agree with you, by the way. i voted against the prescription drug bill. >> thank you again. >> you forgot the to mention farm subsidies and the like. there were a lot of things i wish the president would have been stronger on, cutting spending.
andy card's right, 9/11 devastated the economy. i think the tax cuts were the right policy. at the same time we should have been cutting spending at that time, not adding a new entitlement. we got the thrown out of office because we violated our principles on spending. we were supposed to be fiscal conservatives, and we were not during the -- during the bush years. and we need to get back to that. that's what i'm saying is, okay, we made mistakes in the past. let's admit the mistakes. but let's go forward in a better way. let's take this new freshman class that's coming in. both in the senate and in the house. people who ran on fiscal discipline, who said washington doesn't get it. there's too much spending here. and let's join together and actually start getting our books in order and get back to where we're not just putting more and more debt on to our children and grandchildren. >> all right. senator john ensign, let's hope it happens this time. thank you very much for being with us. andy card, let us come together. let us talk about something we can agree on, and that is the boston red sox. >> all right. >> we're looking good, right, bud? >> we're looking good. >> there you go. all right. thank you, gentlemen.
>> we don't buy championships like the yankees, willie. >> exactly. >> we come close. >> we don't sell out. still ahead, governor bob mcdonnell of virginia. and host of "the last word," lawrence o'donnell will join us. and coming up, developing headlines out of the white house. and we've got florida's only ways and means committee member -- >> yes. >> vern jordan is with us. >> vern buchanan -- >> i've got the vern jordan from earlier today. vern buchanan is with us. >> on the set coming up in a moment. >> first -- >> i don't want to go to him. >> i can't stand it. >> no. hideous. >> all right. bill? you got -- bad weather for us, don't you? >> just do it, bill. i'll just do it. i've got to show up every day, too. let's talk about this. we keep getting colder and colder in the east. and now florida's joining the party. let's talk about the windchills. minus five at pittsburgh, nine in new york. look at philly, three right now. in boston, don't get used to. it the cold air is rushing your way shortly.
snow, areas of long island, picked up two to three inches. you favor the lake effect areas, erie, buffalo, syracuse, rochester, cleveland, you'll see snow today. a very cold winter day, as cold as it gets. highs not even getting to 30 degrees. and look at florida. miami is 36 degrees right now. that's rare. 29 in orlando. we're having a deep freeze. the agricultural is going to take a big hit here as we go throughout today and tomorrow. look at these windchills. you get the picture. it's just cold everywhere. west coast, are you rainy. at northern trust, we understand... that while you may come from the same family... you know, son, you should take up something more strenuous. you have different needs and desires. - i'm reading a book. - what's a book? so we tailor plans for individuals, featuring a range of integrated solutions. you at your usual restaurant? son: maybe. see you tomorrow.
you're taking. so i think that's what happened in the senate. i think that may well happen and probably will happen in the house. >> mika, i talked with extendy yesterday on the phone -- >> you did? >> yes, the national press club yesterday. we were talking about the way things used to be. when tom foley was speaker of the house, before he did anything, he would pick up the phone and would say to friends, "let's go, bob," let him know what we're doing. we're not going to ask permission, but maybe we can work something out. and stenny was talking about how he's hopeful. he went to a boehner party the other night and thinks there's going to be good talking back and forth. and you heard this national press event was something. >> he made -- was interesting. >> he made the point that the obligation of a legislator is not simply to legislate for the next two years but beyond. >> yeah. >> and that that has beening that that's been lost in terms of the bipartisanship. but if you're pushing -- you have to have your eye down the road.
>> yeah. >> and that the house in a weird way -- this is my phrase, not his -- the house is almost too responsi responsive, too in the moment. >> interesting. joining the table, republican representative from florida and member of the house ways and means committee, congressman vern buchanan. and from the white house, nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and co-host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd. chuck, good morning. good to have you. >> good morning. we've got a fast conversation. had andy card coming on and defending bush's spending. i don't know how he did it. i love the guy, but i have no idea how you can do that. again, i'm going to make the japanese guy fighting on -- >> okinawa -- >> okinawa like ten years later. give up, the war's over. you lost. but in this case, republicans blowing a trillion dollar hole in the deficit along with obama. what do you guys do when you take over in the house to make things different? >> let me say the first thing, i think they're serious about
moving forward on spending. but i've been hearing this for a long time. you've been involved a long time in politics. >> right. >> the reality is in the last 50 years, they've only balanced the budget five times. but yet, 49 out of 50 governors have to balance it. mayors, county -- >> what's the big difference? by the way, mika, you know i don't like talking about myself. >> no. >> four out of five times that it was balanced, i was there. so what -- >> almost -- >> what restraints did governors have on him that congress does not? >> well, because we borrow from, as you mentioned, from the chinese or anybody else. it's like crack-cocaine, we are hooked on credit. that's a bad thing. people, businesses are, and the government is. and if you look at the that, for example, we had $70 billion budget four or five years ago. they're down to $58 billion, $60 botto being. they're making hard choices. >> we voted for the balanced budget amendment, it came up one vote short. you introduced it the balanced budget amendment, will it work? >> i think so. everybody has a reason why they
ran. i'm sure you had a reason why you ran. my number-one reason was spending. it was out of control. my first year in, we did $2.7 trillion in revenues. revenues were up 10%. yet we still overspent the budget, $130 billion. now fast forward four years. a trillion four last year, a trillion four this year, a trillion four next year, we need a constitutional balanced budget amendment so if you take in $3 trillion, you spend $3 trillion and gives the taxpayers the best deal. >> you pass that in the house in '95 and came up one vote short. chuck todd will tell you why i went to congress because he was reporting on mow then. it was because i liked the ties with the congressional seals. they're green -- >> made you feel important. >> so important. >> the voting cards, too. they get you free drinks. >> free drinks. >> at the old ebit i think. >> exactly right. so this bill is going to pass through the senate, obviously. and what about the house?
is it clear sailing for the president the? the republicans? >> it's not clear sailing but you see a path on how it gets through the path. the rhetoric changed in the last 48 hours. last week, house democrats, a lot of the progressives in the caucus, they were upset not just about the estate tax but about extending all of the bush tax rates. well, now they're just going after the estate tax deal. the fact that they've narrowed their focus -- >> why is that? >> i think one is they think that's -- they've at least looked and said, well, maybe they have a shot at dealing with that. although i don't think that's true. i think the fact that john kyl, a part of s.t.a.r.t. and a part of this deal on the estate tax, is signed off on it. i think that's why you have a lot of democrats, a lot of senate republicans in the white house saying, you know what, the framework is the famework, you
can't mess with it. the white house is saying let's go after this part of it. in an odd way, i think that undercuts their argument by only going after that. >> right. >> then they're basically saying, well, we're just looking for the path of least resistance here in trying to impose this thing. >> can i ask you a question as our political director and as nbc's's political director -- nbc news' political director? the polls show most americans don't support tax cuts for people making over $1 million. yet polls out this morning show overwhelming support overall for this tax bill. what's going on here? >> look, the fact is it's how you ask the question and how many -- there is not a majority for any part of this -- of extending the bush tax rates. we did it four different ways. you have about 25% of the country that's extend them all. you have about 25% that says, you know what, scrap them all. and then you have the other two 25%s that are somewhere in between that. so, you know, that's why you're
not seeing -- you're not seeg a definitive way in either direction on these tax cuts. then on the deal, look inside the numbers, joe. yes, it's a classic mile wide, support is mile wide, but it's only an inch deep. nobody's emphatically in favor of the plan. they're like, you know what, i don't hate it, fine, and you know, i do think there's a sent. here that says, you know what, wow. an actual bipartisan plan, even if i'm not crazy about it. there's that sense of relief -- >> people working together. >> with that attitude, though, i don't understand -- and with the numbers that you put out there, and i know it's about the question and how the question is asked. i don't understand, mark pal pri -- mark halprin, why a compromise couldn't be sold, at least to have the filthy rich -- >> don't talk about him. he's right here. >> wouldn't it have been the right thing to do especially since the very rich are doing better than ever? >> define filthy.
there are people in the white house think that taxes shouldn't be raised on anyone. >> i know, but why couldn't we sell a compromise on that? >> the republicans in the senate wouldn't go for it, and the president wanted quick action. it can be revisited next year. >> say you had the balanced budget amendment, what are the elements of the buchanan plan to cut the spending that would be sufficient to bring down the debt and deficit? what are the elements? what are elements of major cuts you think we need to see? >> i think over a period of five years, it needs to be phased in. it's not something you'll do overnight. everybody comes together and decides that. if you take in $2.7 trillion, it's like florida this year, say they take in $60 billion, they've got to make the hard choices. >> what are your hard choices? what are the things you want to cut to reach the deficit reduction levels you'd like to see as a balanced budget? >> i would have everything on the table and look at every possibility. >> it's on the table today. you know what the elements of the budget are. what are the things the buchanan plan, once you have a balanced budget amendment, your hand is forced. what do you want to cut?
>> i think the discretionary spending that's out there. it's clearly got to be looked at. it's a small part, but they're talking about 5% cut in terms of -- of members of congress and what we're going to do up there. there's a lot of things along that line i think we need to continue. >> do you agree with marco rubio that the big issue or entitlement program, social security, medicare, and we're going to have to look over time at -- as marco said. say you're in the 40s. telling people in their 40s you're not going to get your social security until you're a little bit older? >> i not there's no question of the viability of social security. i'm in a district that has more seniors than anywhere. have almost 292,000 seniors. there's a lot in florida. i think the bottom line, we've got to figure out a way to make it viable long term. because people are living longer, medicine's better, prescription drugs. my father-in-law passed away a year ago at 90. and, you know, a generation ago he might have passed away at 70.
we have to look at this and come together on a bipartisan basis and address it because it is a big issue. governors are talking about like medicaid. it's just busting the budget with all the governors. >> medicaid, medicaid is going to wipe these state governments out. >> and chuck todd, real quick before you go, obviously a virginia judge has ruled that part of the president's health care plan is unconstitutional. is there a strategy to counter this? >> well, that will be interesting to see. we haven't seen a lot of pushback. we've seen a little from the white house. i think they're trying to take the long view, trying to say, hey, you know what, we've won two court cases. this is the first one we've lost. yes, it's a big p.r. blow. and they have to deal with sort of -- they've got two problems here. they've got the legal issues that they've got to deal with, but they also have the public relations issue on this. i mean, the conservative movement yesterday seemed more excited about what happened yesterday than on election night. by the way, guys, one thing i want to put out there, i know
governors get a lot of credit about balancing the budget. let's remember they do it on the backs of the federal government. most of these states balance their budget by basically begging for money from the federal government. and it's a -- that's the -- an issue here that i think in a way we don't deal with and states don't deal with enough. they don't really -- many states don't really balance their budget with the revenues that they get in. they're begging for federal dollars. >> but it's certainly gotten worse in recent years. and john over the next couple of years, this is going to be the big crisis, california's going to need a bailout. new york's going to need a bailout. a lot of states are in terrible shape. >> it could be the great crisis, the depression we missed. and the problem with seemingly simple fixes is they aren't because a balanced budget amendment in the federal government sends everything back to the states. the states, as chuck says, look to the federal government. this is about controlling our
appetites. >> i've got to say, though, the thing i like about the balanced budget on the federal level is that when the federal government's credit rating goes down, everybody collapses. overnight. >> all right. >> i think the brutal -- the brutal choices are going to be made on the state levels or else if we don't start balancing our budget, we've got ireland and greece to look at. >> great. got to go to break. chuck todd, thank you very much. you can catch cluck and savannah on "the daily rundown." and congressman vern buchanan. mr. ways and means.
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these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you or anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. with 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses, it's stelara®. welcome back to "morning joe," 36 past the hour. a quick look at the news. a new poll gives president obama the lowest approval rating since taking office. according to the survey, 42% of registered voters approve of the job the president is doing, while half disapprove. and a bloomberg survey finds that 45% of americans believe obama doesn't deserve re-election. while 42% do. and mcdonald's chief executive is criticizing what he calls the food police.
accusing them of undermining parents and making decisions for their families, please. in an interview with the "financial times," jim skinner slammed the san francisco vote left month to effectively ban toys with happy meals saying it takes away the personal choices from families who are "more than capable of making their own decisions." that's terrific because we have an obesity epidemic. and a lot of people who really can't afford to buy their groceries and work three, four, five shifts go to fast food restaurants three, four times a week. needs to stop. next, governor bob mcdonnell and lawrence o'donnell. holy sci-fi. steve. no, i know. it's great, right? but, dude, i've been thinking like, this is such a great opportunity for us to write at least an hour to two every single day. you can see this? of course i can see you. but, steve, i'm thinking-- it's like you're standing-- it's like you're standing right there. it's like i'm touching you.
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joining us from richmond, republican governor of virginia, bob mcdonnell. good to have him on the show. bob's for jobs. in new york, host of msnbc's "the last word," having the first word this morning, lawrence o'donnell. >> not sure what lawrence is for. what are you for? bob's for jobs. what are you for? >> i'm for jobs, i think. >> really? >> i created 20 jobs right here. >> okay. >> you did. >> 20 -- more than us. wait a minute. >> he does have more than us. >> did you just say 20? what number -- >> i don't actually know all of the staff. so that's just a guess. there's a lot of people -- >> there might be more? what are you saying? >> he outed phil griffin. let's go to bob mcdonnell. bob, news out of your state yet, the health care law ruled unconstitutional. tell us about it. >> well, we were really happy with that decision. i had signed a bill back in march saying that it was illegal to force citizens of virginia to buy a product of insurance or
get fined. and shortly after that, the bill passed and we filed suit. and the central contention of the lawsuit was that the commerce clause of the u.s. constitution is not so broad, that gives congress the ability to force a person to buy a product of insurance or suffer a penalty. meaning get fined. that's exactly what judge hudson ruled yesterday in his decision striking down that part of the law, saying it's unconstitutional. we think that's exactly the right decision. but ultimately that will be decided in the u.s. supreme court. but the judge's ruling is a good start. >> do you think governor -- i'm going to you ask to be a pundit. do you think it comes down to like many cases how anthony kennedy feels the morning he wakes up before he makes his decision? i would guess it's going to be a 5-4 vote, wouldn't you? >> well, i think justice kennedy's a lot more thoughtful than that. but i would say that i would expect a close votes. i tell you what we're trying to
do, we send a letter to every governor in the country asking them -- i sent it last week. asking them to, regardless of what they thought about the health care law itself, is to join me in asking the supreme court to take the case directly. in other words, have us bypass the circuit courts of appeal, go directly to the supreme court. i hope the justice department will be open to doing that because we need to get certainty and finality in this suit. and know exactly what the law is going to be. don't waste another year or two years in litigation. let's get to the supreme court where everybody knows it's going to be. i hope we can get that done and get certainty for the businesses and the health care community. >> lawrence, what do you think the possibilities are that you could actually have this law overturned as being overly broad? >> i think it's unlikely to be overturned. not based on the commerce clause. i am not an expert on the commerce clause. >> right. >> you don't hear me say i'm not an expert on much. but the real linchpin of the
bill, and of this provision, is actually the tax code. it is the power to tax because the individual mandate is enforced through the tax code. judge hudson was very dismissive of the tax provision in here, which is enforced through the irs. >> yeah. >> calling it a penalty instead of a tax. now, it is money collected by the internal revenue service through -- through a provision that will now exist on your tax return. for him to simply say that is not a tax, i don't think will hold up long term. i think he may very well be sustained on the commerce clause interpretation. >> you know what was fascinate being this is the -- on the tax issue, the president told george stephanopoulos this is not a tax. >> it is a tax. >> let's run the president denying that this health care bill contained a tax. >> under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fighting you if you don't. so how that not a tax? >> well, hold on a second. for us to say that you've got to
take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. >> merriam webster's dictionary, tax -- a charge usually of money imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes. >> george, the fact that you looked up hmerriam's definition indicates to me that you're stretching. >> your critics say it's a tabs increase. >> my critics say everything is a tax increase. i reject that notion. >> and what's fascinating is in arguing the case the administration then went forward and the secretary said it's a tax. >> of course it is. >> what you say on "good morning america" is actually not part of the court record when you're fighting these cases. >> but the white house is saying it's a tax now. >> of course. i always knew they were going to say it was a tax once they went to court. by the way, that's how social security withstood constitutional challenges. it was entirely within the power to tax. without the tax, the specific
tax for social security, it would have been ruled unconstitution unconstitutional. >> let's bring in a lawyer here. governor, you agreed with -- i heard you agreeing with lawrence. of course it's a tax. do you agree with lawrence also, his take on the judge being a bit too flippant in dismissing this as a tax? >> no, not at all. i thought it was actually funny what the democratic congressman in washington, of course, said oh, of course it's not a tax. then the lawyers arguing just the opposite for the benefit of the legal issues. and of course now judge hudson saying no, it's not a tax. it is actually a penalty. i think they just flat lose on a commerce clause issue because here's what judge hudson said. he said the decision to not engage in commerce, meaning to not buy a product of insurance, is not engaging in commerce for purposes of the commerce clause which means that the federal government doesn't have the ability to regulate. so i think they lose on that issue at the u.s. supreme court. and if they lose on that, i
think the rest of the insurance provisions faili s fail in the the whole system doesn't work if you don't have the individual mandate. so look, i think everybody wants to see greater access to health care at lower cost. but you can't do it in a way that violates the constitution. that's what the court said. >> i think one of the ironic things of this entire legal exercise is that you guys are fighting a mirage. the individual mandate is a ghost. it doesn't actually exist in the law because when you get this there and read the enfor enforceability of the mandate, there is none. the statute specifically says that you will have to pay this penalty if you don't have health insurance. but the most important thing to read about the penalty is what follows that. which is what is the penalty for not paying the penalty on your tax return? and the penalty for not paying the penalty on your tax return is absolutely nothing. the irs is specifically
forbidden from trying to collect your penalty fee either through criminal action or civil action. so it's actually just a ghost. there really is no individual mandate in the bill, and as soon as the public finds that out, if this provision survives, the bill will actually have tremendous internal difficulty just on its own because without the individual mandate, i can just wait and buy my insurance when i need it. >> governor -- >> it is so -- this bill had been so convoluted there the beginning. you talked to members of congress about these points that lawrence has been bringing up for six months. they have -- the people that have been their loudest champion this health care bill, they don't even know what's in it. >> well, it's only 3,500 pages. i don't know why they haven't read every page of it before they voted. i tell you what we've done. you know, i am for jobs. we helped to hire 63 new people to go up and figure out what's in there including three new ones from virginia. >> there you go. >> hopefully they'll get that
right. and the bottom line is, look, this thing needs to be decided quickly. i hope the u.s. supreme court will take it up quickly. and bypass the circuits. i hope governors will join us in approving that because this is creating terrible uncertainty for business. for the health care profession, and for the american people. it's got to get resolved one way or the other quickly. >> governor bob mcdonnell, thank you very much for being on the show. >> great to have you. >> we'll be right back.
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i would like to say to the kids out there -- you talk about a role model, this is a role model. don't be like me. >> that was mickey mantle a month after his liver transplant and just a month before his death, warning kids of the dangers of his hard-partying ways. joining us is jane leff virk author "the new york times" best sell question, the last boy, mickey mantle and the end of america's childhood." great to see you. >> great tough on the show. >> mickey was one of your great heroes and you dug extraordinarily deep into -- and discovered a lot of demons when you did was this a hard book to write? >> i think it took maybe five years off my life. >> how deep did you have to dig after jim boughten's amazing book that came out, what in the '70s? >> 1970.
>> revealing what baseball players were really like, including mickey mantle hitting one home run not while hungover but while actually drunk? >> i think that was the baltimore home run as the pitcher, mike mccormick said, sobered which is hist way around the bases, it was really hard to dig. you think you know the story, the kid from commerce, oklahoma, dad's a miner, comes to new york, tries succeed joe dimaggio, wrecks up his knee in center field in his first world series. you think you know the whole deal but it turns out that a lot of what we thought we knew we don't. for example, when mickey wrecked his knee in the 1951 world series it was because a grounds keeper forgot to push the drain cover down on the drain embedded in the sod. and so, fate really conspired with, you know, just human error to set in motion a career that ended up with him spending 17 years with the new york yankees after that year, trying to be as good as he could be, knowing he
would never be as good as he might have become. >> tore up his knee, basically. and a lot of his problems, of course, stem from his drinking as he alluded to in that final press conference. how bad was his problem? >> he was an alcoholic and he was a high-functioning alcoholic but he started drinking at a time in new york when it was it -- it was a liquid world. you didn't just have one for the road, you had 12 for the road and every white guy of a certain age in america wanted to buy mickey mantle a round and be able to say, hey, i bought the mick a drink, you know? and even if they could see that he was stumbling down drunk -- >> so he was being kind? >> yeah. yeah. wouldn't want to turn it down. >> the 1960s fulfill their dream. >> he wouldn't want to disappoint the fans. >> willie, you are that way? >> the same problem. it affected the way he treated his family and also the fans. you tell some kind of ugly stories one where he signs a baseball for somebody says, hey, kid, you're lucky your mom has nice breasts, the only reason i signed this ball.
>> okay. >> dark moments, certainly. >> there are dark moments. >> joe scarborough, that is not funny what are you -- >> what's that? >> what is the matter with you? >> what are you talking -- >> the thing about signing the bull to the kid -- what are you laughing about on that? >> just reading ziggy cartoons. >> thinking about decision points, george w. bush. >> so how do we -- >> mickey was really fun, okay? let's just get that on the table, including some of that stuff. >> how do you, as a fan, and how does america square this? hero but dark hero? >> people ask me all the time is he still your guy and i say, you know, now actually he is a guy, which is an okay thing to be. he's guy. he is back in some sort of human proportion where you can see the flaws and yet still be astonished at what he was able to do physiologically. >> more astonished. >> yeah, more astonished. >> actually drunk when he hits the home run. >> more astonished when you find
out he tore his acl, mcl, cartilage his rookie year and played on it the next 17 years. >> amazing. >> did he come to new york as an alcoholic? was that in his make up? was he was an oklahoma kid trying to adapt to new york, trying to replace dimaggio? what was it? >> i think it is both. there was a lot of alcoholism on his mother's side of the family, but you know, he didn't know that one of his aunts was found dead in her bed a week after she was -- after she was gone thanks to alcoholism, by his half older brother. nobody talked about it. >> yeah. >> nobody said, hey, kid, you better be careful, your mother's whole side of the family. >> yeah. >> so it was a setup. >> passed on to his kids, too? it is a really great book, you don't need our help. it lives on the best seller list. jane levy. >> i need your help. >> the book is "the last boy." jane, thanks for coming in. still ahead, form prime minister gordon brown and more with this fella, lawrence o'donnell, next. >> that's big. this was me, best ribs in nelson county,
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america is not convinced that either party has all the answers. and on november 2nd, i believe that the voters called us to find common ground on real solutions rather than simplistic sound bites. for real problems, problems like unemployment, economic growth and deficit and debt reduction. >> welcome back to "morning
joe." beautiful shot of the upper west side from the top of the rock. steny hoyer yesterday at the press club. i talked to steny yesterday, he was talking about the way congress used to work and how he believe it is may work the next few years. he says boehner reached out to him and talking back and forth and lawrence will remember. i mean what steny talked about yesterday, it sounds revolutionary yesterday but it is the way america has done business for over 200 years. steny said that it used to be when he worked under tom foley, any time the democrats had an idea, foley would stop and call bob, pick up the phone, call bob michael, not for permission, just to say, hey, bob this is what we are talking about and figure out how to go from here, expand this out, get as many as you guys as possible, that was always the starting point. i know it has to happen that way
in the senate, right? >> ended with speaker newt gingrich. i thought you were going to run a clip of steny hoyer with the last word with lawrence o'donnell that is the freshest video that exists. >> yeah. yeah. >> been fascinating to watch him step up to the obama deal being very welcoming, right from the start. where is nancy pelosi as this thing unfolds? steny hoyer has stepped right up to the microphone, nancy pelosi staying in the office with the door closed. i think because for nancy pelosi it is harder to do the rhetorical reversal. >> i don't think she can. >> she will absolutely bring this thing up for vote, going to support it. >> really? >> she has a bigger distance to travel from these very, very strong statements they were making with both top tax bracket and absolutely must not extend it. >> what is so interesting, lawrence, the first night this came out, was one of the few people that i saw certainly that
progressives worship. you know, all progressives worship lawrence. lawrence from day one said this is a great deal for the president. of course, mark halperin said the same thing, i am dismiss sive of him. >> why are you dismiss sive of mark halperin? >> trying to get an interview with the president. lawrence knew from day one this was a good deal. >> a poll saying 69% support this deal. by the way, great deal, which is to say great compromise. it doesn't mean it is great policy. a compromise is never going to be great policy. >> why, lawrence, could we not have gotten like the tax cut for the millionaire? >> i think the democrats have been flag rhetorically wrong for a long time. they keep saying millionaires and billionaires and the country knows they are talking about dentists who make $251,000. >> no we are not and the country knows that. >> here is the problem, here is the problem, their law says that they are. yes, you can have a $250,000
bracket, but you must not stop there. you must have a million-dollar break, you must have a 10 million-dollar bracket f they were serious about billionaires, they would with have these brackets that went up into these ridiculously high incomes. >> why is it because we have been arguing for a year two, years, you can't raise taxes the way they were talking about raising because i kept talking about, the $250,000 dentist who has four chairs and wants to have five, this will hurt him. it seems to me, and this is what mark and i were debating it would be so easy for democrats to say, all right, i tell you what, we are going to give that you tax break for the $250,000 dentist but if you make $1 million, your rate's going to go up to 36%. if you make $2 million it is going to go up to 38%, if you make, you know -- why didn't obama do that? >> my specific version would be at 250, we do have an increase, but not 4 1/2% increase, then up
to a million, start to have the larger increase and 10 million. we do not the have 100 million tax bracket. why don't we? we have with $50 million shortstops in this country. in 1936, the top break was $5 million because we recognized that there were high incomes that cannot be treated the same. there are some that are 100 times less. >> lawrence, why now in this day and able with this crisis we face, the rich doing better than ever, people hurting why couldn't we get this done now? why couldn't than found in the deal? >> republicans were dug in. they have no problem digging in on this. and you can't govern in the united states without getting -- >> so it is the republicans? >> republicans get elected in states with -- they all ran on it not like john mccain ran on this, you know, saying he was going to do the other thing. john mccain got elected to vote against tax increases, reelected to do that and he is doing that.
and that's what republicans got re-elected or elected to do. so it's not surprising that's what they are doing. they are -- at the moment, a minority in the senate but that's enough to stop it. look, it got -- the obama position of raise above 250 got 53 vote notice united states senate. you know where we got the 250 black set in we got it in 1993 when i participated in senate in getting the biggest tax increase in history. >> you are proud of that? >> i would like it to be called the o'donnell bracket here on this show. so we got that with 50 votes in the united states senate, plus the vice president. so, the clinton increase in taxes only got 50 votes in the senate and it passed. the obama vote got 53 but not in reconciliation so it couldn't pass. >> why couldn't they do it in rec reconciliation? that is how bush got his tax cuts through? >> you can't do a reconciliation bill without a budget resolution. you can't do that in the lame
duck session. >> all revisited next year and the democrats can, if they played better than 2010 have a debate about people who make over $1 million. >> they get nothing now, because the republicans are going of the 70, 80-vote majority. >> not if there is a bargain -- >> i think bill just saying here is 2% tax increase on incomes over $100 million. >> right. >> let me just see -- let me get that roll call vote so you can use it in 30-second ads. >> set it up. set it up. you know what that is actually -- you could even do this and i know a lot of republicans would not go there, you could say we are just going to raise taxes on billionaires up to 39%, the o'donnell bracket. >> who would with argue that? >> republicans would still vote against that. >> the republicans would? >> let's find out. why haven't democrats run the test? >> i don't get it. >> that was my entire argument from the very beginning. i would have -- i would have pushed republicans and gotten them on the record to say they
wanted to throw people out -- in the streets, unemployment benefits, the bill clinton language, giving billionaires tax cuts. >> easier to say if they would have dug in. now we look at the president's approval rating, mcclatchy -- marist poll gives president obama the lowest approval rating since taking office. 432% of the registered voters aprove of the job the president is doing, half disapprove a bloomberg survey finds 45% of americans believe obama doesn't deserve re-election while 42% do. >> willie gite, i think those numbers go up. >> lawrence, you said nancy pelosi is going to come around on this, those do rhetorical reversal. >> right out of the gate. she gave a statement saying here is what is good about it a couple things bad about it she stayed silent, let steny lead. >> what about anthony wiener, was it theater? >> most was theater. anthony wiener doesn't have to vote for this, most of the people making noise about it and raising their objections to it,
in the end, will be voting for this tax cut, including the ten democratic senators who voted not to, you know shall did not vote for cloture yesterday. some of them will move over and vote for final passage. the vote yesterday was not on final passage. >> what would motivate nancy pell lows toy is vote for it if the vote was not needed for passage? >> the speaker doesn't vote on most things but she is going to bring this to a vote. >> alou a vote without coming out and supporting it? >> she has, in effect, already voted for it. the house position has been we are not going to vote on it as is. the day the president issued his framework, which wasn't even a bill, we are not going to vote for that okay. that is easy to say. all you have to do is get some changes, pelosi wanted a change, which she got, which is an energy tax credit she he got that, max baucus worked it, the republicans approved, by the way it is just another tax break for business. you can call it an environmental piece, which it is, but it is a
tax break for business, big surprise republicans are on board. the house got a change already that is the face-saving change they need. they will probably get some more there might be a little bit of give on the estate tax and, you know, then you are done. >> why is mitch mcconnell and other republicans in the senate supporting it? >> well, look, they -- every once in a while, you need the other party to solve your problems. mitch mcconnell has a party that would not vote for an extension of unemployment benefits, however, if you are mitch mcconnell, do you really want the democrats throwing unemployment benefits at you all year? sometimes you let the other party get this cap off your doorstep and that is what they are doing them don't like the political pressure that's on them for that so some people interpreting the extension of unemployment benefits as something the republicans respect really giving up, that's correct -- that is a correct perception of that. republicans are letting democrats do them the favor of getting that pressure off them. >> hmm.
okay. >>. >> and they get their top tax brackets and all the rates. >> i'm curious, barack obama is now saying he is going to take care of this last year s there any hope of that? >> it is the correct conceptual place to go after this. everyone made the mistake of thinking tax brackets are everything. that is not the case, as the deficit commission and others have shown it is the tax deductionses that are key. if you, for example, were to take the over million dollar tax deduction for home mortgages and pull that down to $500,000, you have immediately changed the effective rate of the high earners, if you change all -- say charitable deductible built from 35% to 28%, you changed the top tax rate indirectly, plenty of twice get more money out of the rich in the tax code by playing with the deductions that they are using. and so it is a good direction to
go, ultimately great to do it. you can have lower tax rates, marginal tax rates for everyone, the more deductions you pull out. and the rich can end up paying more income tax at a lower bracket if you have pulled their deduction out. it is the whole thing that you always hear from buffet. >> pack wood wood and bradley did this in 1986 with danny rostenkowski, 1986, we simplified the code and pulled out deduction and provision, we have done nothing but pile them back in. >> and we tried to do all sorts of social engineering in the tax code we try to create these incentives, for example, for new energy in the tax code instead of through direct subsidy. we have been governing through the tax code and social policy now for a couple of decades. in the process, we have jump it had up with a lot of messy stuff. good stuff, like the earned income tax credit one of the most effective anti-above vert programs we have, built into the tax code but a lot of messy
stuff thrown in there. >> mika, very sad news. >> yes. >> our friend, richard holbrooke, passed away surprisingly. >> ambassador richard holbrooke died last night. he was in a hospital in washington. he suffered a tear in his aorta. he underwent hours and hours, about 20 hours of grueling surgery and didn't make it he had a government career that spanned nearly five decades and he worked for every democratic president since the late 1960s with a style that earned him nicknames such as the bulldozer and raging bull. one of his signature achievements was brokering the date peace accord signed exactly 15 years ago today that ended the war in bosnia. apparently his last word as well also touched on one of the crises that we -- >> afghanistan. >> foreign policy today. richard was a friend of the show, a friend of our family. and he will be missed. i mean, he had a very, very colorful personality, a very
large ego and we have a lot of fun with him on the show. >> a lot of diplomats growing up, mika and they are large personalities and need to be for many reasons. willie geist earlier, you were recounting his remarkable career. >> truly a life's work. took a little break to do on wall street, do publishing, right out of school, out of college, went to vietnam, worked in foreign service, came back, worked under lbj, was assistant secretary of state under jimmy carter at the age of 35 and then again later under bill clinton. >> he is one of those people who knew from college, possibly before, exactly what he wanted to do with his life, dedicated himself to it. >> you know, meachum told us last hour he helped clark clifford write his classic. >> that is news. >> yeah. mark hall britain, he was such an integral part of the diplomatic accord.
nothing, nothing really has surprised, i think a lot of diplomats able to do 15 years ago, remarkable achievement. >> vietnam forward, part of every foreign policy story and took on tough tests, dealing with bosnia, a huge test, taking on what he was working on at the end of his life, afghanistan and pakistan. when a president, a democratic president needed a diplomat to deal with something tough, richard holbrooke, his big personality, experience and talents the person presidents went to and cared about america's role in the world in a way that was not political, although he loved politics, he cared about trying to do the right thing. >> his dream was to be secretary of state, of course, only made it to 69 years old. if hillary clinton is not do the possible eight years in that job, we have -- he was on the short list and would have been on the short list to succeed her. >> no doubt about it last words the family reported to the
"washington post" was we have got to stop this war in afghanistan. >> which the president actually is scheduled to meet with top national security advisers today to assess the progress there. all right. former british prime minister gordon brown coming up on "morning joe." we will be right back. >> one with of the reasons i like to come on your program is that whether i agree or not with your comments, which are mainly critical, i think you have made your program kind of the epicenter of discussion of afghanistan and i would add pakistan, which we talked about last time on television and i think that's very useful public service. barack obama ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] at&t covers 97% of all americans. rethink possible.
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the best tweets of the year and according to "time" magazine, the top tweet of 2010 was written by john mccain. that's right. experts say it is more impressive because he thought he was opening his garage door. >> cnn. take a look at this watch. >> bill clinton made a surprise appearance at a white house press briefing last week to endorse president obama's tax compromise with republicans. in a similar show of support, george w. bush returned to the white house to speak to the press this afternoon. >> it is a -- i think it is a -- i think it is -- it is -- it's a -- >> cnn will return in a moment. >> you know what you cannot go back to the well. it is done. okay. time now to take a look -- >> whatever you can do to bring george bush back. >> at the morning papers, "new york times" underperforming teachers in new york city are no
longer guaranteed to receive tenure. an elaborate new system asks principals to rank prospective lifetime employees in and outside the classroom. >> the financial times, strong sales in asia pushed google's android operating system well ahead of apple in the race for smartphone dominance. google says it activates 300,000 new android handsets each day. >> wow. >> 300,000 a day compared to 150,000 a day for the iphone. related story, mark halperin striking out against the android as a communist plot to undermine american ingenuity. >> i don't even know what that is. >> what the kids in middle america. >> like a stork the apple store? >> i have no idea. i'm on the upper west side. >> okay. "usa today," the jets' strength coach caught on camera tripping a dolphins player during sunday's game has been suspended by the team for the -- he really did that on purpose?
look at this. god. suspended without pay for the rest of the season, also defined $25,000 for the incident. how do you not get fired for that? >> you know what you know what i usually complain about them not disciplining people enough. that is a strong -- >> that s. >> rex ryan, he should have done t. >> rex took care of business. >> good for rex are. >> go to politico now plate books, editor-in-chief there, mr. john harris. >> hello, willie. good to he sue. >> talk crossroads gps, the conservative group that flooded midterm elections with ads about to launch another offensive ahead of the 2012 elections. what are they up to? >> no time like the present to get going on the next election and spend what they are trying to do is put pressure on democrats, specifically folks and democrats who just barely got over the finish line in the 2010 elections to vote in favor of this tax deal. >> so, what are they doing, they running ads? >> yeah, they are about to put
ads in districts, people like jerry connolly here in northern virginia didn't even know for a week or so after election whether he had won or not, it was so close, saying, hey, vote for this tax deal. what i think is interesting about it though, these ads show a split among conservatives about what they think about this tax deal. we had mitt romney in an op ed in usa today coming out against it saying it is going to grow the deficit, short-term stimulus doesn't do anything for the long-term health of the country. joe scarborough in politico -- >> yep. >> denouncing this deal as something that's throwing everybody's supposed concerns about the deficit out the window. >> i am surprised, john harris, mitt romney actually is opposing this deal text that steppeds the bush tax cuts 'cause he is concerned about the deficit? >> you get mitt romney and joe scar bore rent same side, tells
you something important. >> mitt romney rewriting the charles krauthumaner article from last week. he created a great sensation in the conservative world by saying obama won big on this deal, great deal or obama. bad deal for republicans. >> like you create a sensation on the progressive side, among progressives that watch your show by saying this is a great deal. there is a more fundamental split here and we saw it in 1994 ben we enter up there, there were the supplysiders who said cut tax no, sir matter what cut taxes doesn't matter how big the deficit goes. then those of us that came in and said, yes, not going to raise taxes and cut taxes when we can but we keeping an eye on the deficit as well and there was we had those battles in '95, '96, '97, we had the tax cuts, going to grow the economy but battle budget at the same time.
>> the interesting thing is what happens to john thune's vote in the senate, since presidential candidate romney has come out stake out this anti-deal position? i believe thune was one of the people voted to proceed yesterday. demint voted against proceeding. final passage, thune is going to rethink this thing, wait a minute is that the new position. >> this is crazy out of whack with our normal politics, you have divisions within each party pretty big. governor romney has another objection, a legitimate one, a lot of the things are too temporary, wants something more definitive. mitt romney, sarah palin, some conservative pundits, john boehner, mitch mcconnell supporting it and democratic party, split between pelosi and obama, rare any our politics these days have an issue that divides one party, normally lock step partisan support this is a big moment for the republican party. >> it is not easy for mitt romney, always accuse of playing it too safe, not easy for any republican, you know this to say
no to an extension of tax cuts. >> see, he doesn't have a vote. >> he gets to say what he he wants. >> krautheimer said last week, the impact it had, said where i'm going to go, i'm going to go in this position and i'm not a position of responsibility where the tax rates would go up on january 1st if people followed my advice. a great anti-washington stance. >> john? >> joe, one question about this though is whether this kind of represents a last binge before people go into treatment or one last big skies will of cheesecake before the year's diet. new members coming in in january and a lot of them really believe their deficit message, not just a talking point. and if that's true the division that mark is talking about is going to become much, much more acute. because i think many of these new members actually mean it, they are serious about the deficit. >> that would be ground-breaking. >> that is what i've been subjecting all along this is a
very cynical ploy by republican tons say, okay, while democrats are in charge going to tack on another $1 trillion t will stimulate the economy and then when our people come in next year, 112th congress they don't have to have $1 trillion added, because rand paul said woe vote against this, willey demint has voted against it. a all right of the tea party people would not blindly walk lockstep with the republican establishment and add $1 trillion to the deficit. >> mitt romney saying his op ed, president obama has reason to celebrate with this tax package. >> okay that is sort of rewriting. >> yes it does. >> john harris, thanks so much. >> i agree with mitt romney. -never heard that. >> lawrence stayed this from day one. >> pretty smart, lawrence. >> pretty smart. >> a little annoying but -- >> exactly what the glasses are b. >> mark halperin, hall prin doctrine come to fruition? >> alive and well.
>> there's always something, isn't there? it is a crisis. >> 83 votes yesterday it will get more on final passage. >> erin is next. hey, guys. printer's out of ink. just shake it. [ rattling ] [ male announcer ] need ink? staples has a low price guarantee on all the ink you need. find a lower price at another store, and we'll match it. that was easy.
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let's get a check on business before the bell with cnbc's international superstar, erin burnett. >> hey. >> erin what are the traders expecting this morning from gentle ben? >> oh, they are expecting lots of gentleness. obviously, not going to move interest rates and reiterate going ahead with the $600 billion plan to try to keep interest rates low, even though, by the way, as we all know, interest rates the past couple of weeks have been creeping higher. look if they go up because the economy is getting better, not the end of the world for ben, would be fine with that. this morning, the data into the fed decision, a one-day meeting, them be using the data today on price and retail sales. retail sales, better than expected no question about it, that is for november and in a sense, doesn't surprise me, we know there is was a lot of holiday shopping going on. also, a lot to gasoline. i'm going to write that up completely, gasoline receipts up not a good thing for anybody. producer prices up more than expected because of food and fuel. you take those out, they were in line.
again, i don't think it is fair to take them out at this point that is a big part of costs for everybody. a little bit of inflation and the economy doing okay. ben will do nothing. >> okay. willie and i since this iran series has broken, so inspire that we actually, willie, classes going well. >> yeah, berlitz, going great. >> learning farsi? >> learning farsi. we want to know more about this strange and exotic country that you call iran. but you have an update and even though willie and i can speak farsi now. >> she has an update on the company in the forbidden zone. >> we figured out a couple of things, where is the bathroom, two, that is not my friend, i do not know her and three, please don't kill me. outside of that it gets shake kim you have an update on your iran series. >> you all know we profiled a company, a giant chemical companies, the largest private
shipper in the world. >> talking about t moving amony ya through the straits. >> that's right. and this company that we profiled sent an e-mail last night to the democratic and republican chairman of the banking homeland security and international and foreign affairs committees saying, guess what our subsidiary is going to be ending all ties in iran. so as a result of the report, they are going to be stopping all of their business in iran and it is an interesting story. >> wait, hold on. what? >> the unemployment rate goes up, that was willie's summer job. >> willie was -- >> tell us, will you ever write a book about moving ammonia? >> behind the weaves an ammonia rig, yeah, a sumner the straits. >> yeah, okay. the shocking story. >> ammonia -- ammonia, to be serious though -- >> willie's best book since westchester nights. go ahead. i'm sorry, erin. i'm sorry. >> amin ya is used in crops, it is used in windex, also used in 95% of the roadside bombs in
afghanistan. store, is an important thing and it is an important driver for the iranian economy. it is good that this company is no longer doing it, but it is fair to note a lot of foreign companies still are sanctions are going to work, we have to deal with that issue and the issue of subsidiaries, we will tackle that, go to our website to see the whole forbidden zones report and a report on transammonia. >> willie on there right now. >> you better be, willie. >> blogging in farsi now. >> erin, thank you for doing this serious work. >> thank you so much, erin burnett. >> see you guys tomorrow. >> all right. speaking of international superstars, this session siting. >> standing by in the green room, former british prime minister gordon brown, right here on "morning joe." hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices?
sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business.
welcome back to morning joe, 39 past the hour. joining us now, the former prime minister gordon brown, the author of the new book "beyond the crash, overcoming the first crisis of globalization" very good to have you on the show this morning. >> good to be on. >> i hear you have heard of it before. >> in britain. >> a good reputation? >> no. got to be wrong. plchblts prime minister, we have been debating this morning about the united states. >> yeah.
>> adding another $1 trillion to our debt. >> how does that look from over there? >> you got to look at the long-term perspective here. the short-term, looks as if you are adding to your debt n long-term, you have to get growth. you don't have growth, you don't have jobs, you don't have jobs, revenues go down. you don't have revenues, you have a bigger debt and deficit. people haven't quite realized that this crisis that we have had it is nothing like anything before since the 1930s. and you can't recover from it overnight. you can't just go back to normal. i think a lot of countries are trying to go back to normal, cut public expenditure, let the economy's investments start again. >> you call this the first crisis of globalization. tell us what you mean by that. >> that every country in the world was affected by that is really the result of what you might call the global flows of capital so capital can go to anywhere around the world. global association of goods buy your goods from anywhere around the world and we don't manage it properly, it is out of control. that is why we have had prices,
that is why we have had the oil volatility that's why we have got climate change problems. we are not managing it probablerly. >> how do we get an international construct since there are no boundaries now for capital? >> yeah. >> it flies across borders in split seconds how do we get america and britain and asia together? >> politics have got to get a grip, haven't they? you have got global financial markets and national supervisor sitting in new york, you are not likely to know what is happening in the rest of the world. if you have got a growth dependent on trade and you just sit back and let people put up trade barriers and then, you know, the whole world economy then goes into a downswing. so we started the g-20, which was a leaders group, biggest dmets world, india, china involved, everything else, you have got to do that in a better way. you cannot have growth in america and europe in the next few years at the level you want getting unemployment down as fast as you want without some corporation without with other countries that is the reality. you got to get china on board.
don't talk about the currency. talk about why china isn't consuming more, why the middle class is not rising, why there's too many people in poverty and tell the chinese they have to increase their consumption, we will increase investment and rebalance the world economy that way. in the 19th century, we had national economies, right, the only decisions that matter, would you build the railroads, build welfare systems, would you get the sort of infrastructure moving? the 21st censure ray all right of the decisions are now international and governments have got to look to the rest of the world and a america's got to take the lead. america is the premiere economy in the world it has got brilliant innovative talents, you got the best technology and the best industries. you got to lead this but to get growth, you got talk to other countries. >> but, okay go ahead, mark. >> if america has to take the lead what does our president, president obama have to do more of than he has done so far? >> i think president obama was great when he took the leadership of the g-20 in
pittsburgh in 2009 and now need something similar in again n 2009, trying to stop the banks from collapsing in 2009, trying to stop a great depression. in 2011, we are facing a decade of low growth. you get the figures every day, some goes up, some goes down, basically, a low-growth decade, high unemployment, you don't so do something about it that is how it is going to be. i reckon you could create $50 million the next few years in industrialized countries you have a pattern of decision making that got china, india, europe, america, these are the main participants, involved in a strategy for growth. that's how it could be done and america should and can take the lead. >> we have not yet started what will surely be a big deficit reduction effort in this country, probably once the president feels we are clear enough of the recession, you have started some government cut cutbacks in britain which have sparked student protests, the likes of which we have never seen last week. >> yeah. yeah. >> what -- what's the next
chapter of the government cutbacks and student protests? >> i think you have riots in greece, portugal, general strike in spain. the student vie ben in britain, completely unacceptable, violence in the pursuit of a cause of a democracy is completely unacceptable and unjustifiable. but there is a fundamental issue here. if you are going to prepare -- sbhat biggest change the next ten years? biggest change is going tonight the rise of these massive consumer markets in asia, a billion consumers, twice the size of the american consumer market. you have to get into these markete is, america, britain, europe can you afford cut become on education? can you afford to cut back on technology? can you afford to cut become on scenes? no, if you are going to win in these markets and sell goods that are technology driven and got the high skill content that we can uniquely produce, how can you afford a cut back in education? that is the fundamental division of opinion of in britain at the
moment, yes, a deficit reduction plan but does it make any sense to cut become on your skilled workforces and any sense to cut become on science and technology? and in america, if you are going to export to the rest of the world, can you afford to leave the technology advances to china or to india or to someone else? you can't do that. so i think you have deficit reduction but got to expand your education and technology and your science and got to think ahead. at the moment, we are just thinking how do we get through this year? >> stop the dam right here. >> so, have are the leaders in britain gone too far? it san experiment. it is an experiment. >> an experiment that causes you great concern? >> in the 1930s they can tried similar experiment and pretty disastrous for britain. and a great philosopher and economist said how to conquer unemployment, the treasury of the day, they wrote inflation, extravagance, bankruptcy and rejected it he was right.
the language you are hearing today is almost exactly the same as the language of the 1930s it san experiment. i don't want to say it is going to work or not work. >> a dangerous ex-peer tonight turn your back on cains's? >> a dangerous ex-peer tonight expects after this huge shock, the biggest shock for 70 years, somehow, something can just come back to normal overnight, you do what you traditionally do, you don't have inflation but you are dealing with it as if it is an inflation problem, you cut public spending, you hope private investment is going to return but all the evidence says it is not going to return at the levels it was before and therefore, you got low growth and the growth figures for britain are going down, you know, the rate of growth is going down the beginning of next year, having grown this year as a result of the stimulus so you end up with a low-growth decade when actually, the huge opportunity is out there you see, america -- the american dream can be reinvented, in my view, as a career path for skilled people, getting educational and training
qualifications and being the skilled workforce of the world that is the new american dream. you have got to investment. >> yes, we do let's talk about germany for a minute because conservatives the past several months are saying, look at the german austerity program it has led to the quickest growth since reunification, tell us what your take is on that. another side to that story? >> yeah, germany for ten years, for ten years, germany had high unemployment and lower wages and germany picking up the growth, spain is uncompetitive, greece is uncompetitive, ireland is uncompetitive. germany getting the benefit of wage restraint for ten years, germany cannot continue to grow that fast, the rest of europe doesn't grow because of most its exports are to the rest of europe, not china. >> is the rest of europe a burden in germany they certainly feel like it s. >> yeah they do feel like it is, three european problems, the
three european problems, big deficits to deal with bank that are in trouble or big liabilities and they have got no growth or very little growth for the foreseeable future. i think you have to have some sort of high noon, have european leaders together like 2009 and say you have got to solve these three problems in one, if you just solve the deficit and no growth, you have got a problem. if you leave the bank liabilities undealt with, you have got a looming problem, so you have got to get these throw problems solved in one and not just a problem of the periphery, a problem for the whole of europe. >> so you are -- you are living a pretty darn good life. you have written this great book, "beyond the crash, overcoming the first crisis of globalization." you don't have to wake with up every morning worrying about those damn tabloids and what awful things they will say about you. >> the british press is sort of -- >> something. >> up on politician and football stars, but do you -- do you feel sorry for barack obama right now, that he is having to endure what you had to endure regarding
an economy that has undergone a fundamental change? >> you know, barack obama is a great man and he has got a great heart and it has always been a privilege to deal with him. you know, look around the world and what's happening in america, japan, australia, belgium, netherlands, austria, italy, everybody's hit. the incumbent government is hit because people rightly, they feel insecure. they don't know where the jobs are going to come from what's going to happen to their kids. they are worried about their mortgages and people are want answers and easy to say we will find an answer in america, we will find an answer in britain but actually, you are going to have to cooperate with other countries to get this answer. you need an american plan for the world arrange american plan not just for itself but says to china do this europe do that and i think again you could get the growth we need. >> mika, this is so important, because coming from him, not because's former prime minister, but the ex-chouquer a very long time. >> prime minister gordon brown, thank you, the book "beyond the
crash" thanks very much, sir. >> thank you. up next, will ferrell's remix to a 1977 christmas classic, next on "morning joe." i'd like one of those desserts and some coffee. - sure, cake or pie? - pie. - apple or cherry? - cherry. oil or cream? oil or cream? cream. some use hydrogenated oil. reddi-wip uses real dairy cream. nothing's more real than reddi-wip. princess of the powerpoint.
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lawrence o'donnell. here for the best fill n drama category, "the king's speech," "social network" the fighter" the mark wahlberg film "inception" and "black swan." >> wicked tough for me, i'm from boston, from the same neighborhood as marky mark, mark wall brerg, aaron soson a friend of mine, i go with my friends i'm going with "social network." i have seen none of the movies. i pick "social network" i work every night of my life, i can't get to a movie theater. seen none of them, going with "social network." >> mortal lock. >> really? one more thing, remember the david bowie/bing crosby 1977 classic, here to is here, "little drummer boy" before bing died, brought back to life now years later by the great will farrell and his partner john c. reilly. let's enjoy. ♪
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