tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC October 1, 2013 3:00am-4:00am EDT
>> i know we're going to be sticking with you into the next hour as we continue to watch what happens on capitol hill. now we want to start our new special live edition of the last word. we are expecting to be hearing live from john boehner. after 1:00, this is going to be awesome. have a great night. stay with us. midnight came, and midnight went. congress did not keep the government runs. and still, amazingly, ironically, republicans did not stop obamacare. >> what a shameful day this is. >> the government of the united states of america will close. >> they're talking now about not raising the debt creeling. >> i'd like to say good evening, but it isn't a very good one. >> the president is the one who's driving the government shut down. >> the president's not willing to come to the table.
>> he wants the checkbook. >> maybe he's not the problem. >> the president's not asking for anything. >> you've got to get a life. >> this is not a game of chicken. >> i sort of feel sorry for speaker boehner. >> the sheer ridiculousness. >> the republicans have left the plane of reason. >> tomorrow will be a bad day for government, a day of celebration in the house. >> government shut down watch. >> this one is a complete shutdown. >> the finale. >> as a result, you're about to shut down the government. >> i didn't come here to shut down the government. >> in just 237 seasons, it has turned into a self-destructive maniac. at this hour, the federal government is closed for business. federal firefighters, cia agent, fbi agents, federal prison
guards are now being asked to protect us without pay. national park ranger and zoo keepers are now out of work. thousands of children might find the doors of their head start schools closed. the military will be unaffected by the shut down, but the thousands of civilian defense workers who support them will not. tonight the president had this message for them. >> to all our dod civilians, i know the days ahead could mean more uncertainty, including possible furloughs. and i know this comes on top of the furloughs that nanny of you already endured this summer. you and your families deserve better than the dysfunction we're seeing in congress. your talent and dedication keep our military the best in the work. that's while i'll keep working with congress to get you back to work as soon as possible.
what happens next? they are leaving it in the hands of the republicans in the house. >> the only way to keep the government open would be for the house to pass the resolution that we've already september them, that's correct? >> that's right. it keeps the government funded. and they've had that for days now. they could do it, with the way they vote in a matter of ten minutes. >> republicans have been huddled together since 9:00 working on a plan d. the plan would call for a conference committee to negotiate a continuing resolution. up until this point, house republicans refused to go to conference on the federal budget which is how we round up with the continuing resolution. basically budget duct tape that keeps the government open while a long-term plan is worked out. >> we passed a budget.
we passed a budget because it's the right thing to do. senator murray has for more than six months requested a conference on the budget. 18 times. so we like to resolve issues. but we will not go to conference with a gun to our head. the first thing that the house has to do is pass a clean six week cr. they have that before them. they can do it right now. >> congressman chris van holland exposed the real reason they don't want to negotiate on the budget. they can't. why not? the ted cruz whacko bird side won't let them. >> yes, then we should go to conference on the budget. mr. speaker. we've been trying to go to
conference and negotiate on our differences since march. on 18 occasion, senator lee and other republican senators blocked the budget to go to negotiations. some said that was insane for the senate to do. he pointed out that our republican colleagues wanted to work on these all along. why would you block that, mr. speaker? because when you go to a budget negotiation you've got to compromise. you've got to meet the other party halfway. and you've got a tea party right wing in this house that refuses to compromise. >> joining me is robert costa and ashley parker. i dwoonts start with you. you broke the news of branplan few hours ago. is there a plan e at this point for house republicans? >> reporter: i think the plan e sound as little bit like their.
the house republicans will endure the shut down. they'll try to feel the pain. i think this is a generational divide. the older congress men knew that this was not a great play. some elected in 2010, 2012, need to feel the pain. >> ashley, there's so many flaws. so many chunks in the armor. what are the problems with the conferen conference committee is it is a reminder that they rejected their 18 times before as steny hoyer pointed out. it sounds like they're going to keep beating that drum. >> reporter: sure, well, the first problem with the conference committee is that it involves both chambers. and the house may want to go to conference, as you said, harry reed has pointed out that it's dead on arrival. so it's unlikely that the
conference will be an avenue for negotiations in this fight. >> robert, where's john boehner. >> we know that he's going to be giving a statement in a few minutes. but in terms of his power within the caucus, is it weakened? is it status quo? >> reporter: i think it's weakened. john boehner was elected in 1990. he's an institutionalist. i don't think he personally wanted to see it shut down, baugh he wasn't able to bring his caucus around his perspective. he did not bring a clean cr to the floor, even though a lot of house republicans at the end of the day would have been willing to support a clean cr. john boehner stumbles ahead right now. doesn't have a coherent strategy. trying to use a conference in a messaging war with the senate. but he doesn't have an out right now. and that's what he's going to have to spend the next few days tries to find. >> the democrats have stood
pretty much in lock step through all of this. and i twoonts play a little bit of sound from nancy pelosi earlier tonight at a press conference. >> to get out of a shut down, could democrats accept any small narrow change to obamacare at all? >> no. no. in this setting. in other words, we always think that any bill passed can be improved upon. but you do not use the threat of shutting down government to try to advance your policy agenda. that's just not the way it works. >> it's like a study in contrast, john boehner who has very little sway with his own caucus and nancy pelosi, the fearless general putting down any roadblock on anything to do with obamacare.
what is your feeling about how much she keeps her caucus together in the coming days? >> reporter: democrats have been stunningly unified. no chunks in the armor. and you know, part of that is democrats feel when it comes to defunding or delaying the health care law, this is law that became law on the books in 2010. we've had three years to fight about it. we've had a presidential election to fight about it. at this point, president obama is still the president. the democrats control the senate and they don't see any reason to cave on this. >> for people who haven't been following this closely, who don't have their own at home government shut down clocks on their desks, they may wake up tomorrow and wonder what's going on on a number of levels, because the aca is rolled out at the same time that this happened. obamacare is now, the exchanges are open. they did, the republicans have done nothing to stop that. and so i think that really
double underscores the futility of all this. >> there is definitely aur ra of futility. within the conservative ranks, there's a real fear that come obje october 1st, once obamacare starts, it's going to be a bureaucratic program that people actually like. they want to stop to before it starts and before it potentially becomes popular. and that's really causing problems for boehners shall because he's dealing not only with a tough scenario, but with members pulling their hair out about the implementation of obamacare. >> i was talking about the game
of hot potato. that nobody wants to be seen as the last person standing in the way, but it seems and it sounds like the republicans actually have ended up with the hot potato. and that is expressed in some part by the fact that john boehner has not yet spoken. everybody's waiting to see what his excuse or explanation is. in terms of this game of back and forth, it does seem like the democrats have the upper hand. >> reporter: this is something that republicans, especially house republican leadership feared all along. they said while repeating obamacare is a very popular motto and rallying cry and unites all members of their party, it's sort of a pr nightmare, and if a government shut down happens, the only other unpopular thing was going to be a shut down of the government. they knew they were going to get stuck with the blame no matter who ping-ponged the last bill
when it struck midnight. >> how far do you think republicans can make that talking point? how much can that be a talking point in the coming days? >> reporter: i think republicans are going to try to win the pr war. i think ashley brings up a good point. when i was walking around the capitol, there's a real sense of nervousness of republicans. they're not sure how this is going to play out. they're hoping the president will shoulder some of the blame. but they're not sure that's going to happen. right now there's a lot of wariness about how to proceed. does boehner have the ability to get anything through his own conference. >> robert costa and ashley parker, thank you for your time. coming up, how many times do you need to warn a child not to touch a hot stove before that child learns the hard way? tonight john boehner is finally allowing tea party republicans to touch the hot stove, which in
you know, kid, the kitchen ain't a playground. there's a lot of things that can burn you. by itself, it's harmless, but filled with scalding hot water -- >> the shut down -- >> the senate has continued to reject our offers. but under the constitution, there's a wray to resolve this process. and that is to go to conference and talk through your differences, and i would hope that the senate would accept our
offer to go to conference and discuss this so that we can resolve this with the american people. questions? >> reporter: so the stakes have really been raised in this now, and you have members on both parties who want to vote on a clean cr. will you permit a vote on a clean cr? >> we are hoping that the senate will take our offer to go to conference and resolve our differences. >> reporter: the workers will receive notices they are no longer needed on the job. do you have a plan to restore back pay to them. ? >> the house has voted to keep the government open, but we also want basic fairness for all americans under obamacare. >> joining me now, the former secretary for president bush.
bruce, a very shortby the speaker of the house. we want to find some avenue for compromise, rings a little bit false after 18 rounds of rejecting compromise on the budget before. what do you make of it? >> first of all, let me clear up something. those 18 votes on the budget had to do not with appropriations but with the overall guidelines for appropriations under the budget act of 1974. so that is important, because it guides the appropriations process. and right now, what we're faced with is there are no appropriations. and under the anti-deficiency act of 1868, this requires that the government be shut down. so while the two are related, they're really different issues. and i don't want people to get confused about that. >> let me just follow on that.
because we're not actually even arguing about a budget here. we're arguing about a stopgap measure. and i want to get your thoughts on the point others have mad which is the reason no real bills can come to the house is there is no consensus because john boehner cannot pull the two ends of his party together. >> well, actually, i think he could if he wanted to. i don't think -- the republicans have 233 votes in the house. and so only 16 republicans would have to switch to vote with all the democrats to do whatever they want to do. and there's clearly more than that who would follow john boehner if he released them. but they won't do that because the tea party cookes will not allow that to happen. they believe they should get whatever the hell they want.
>> there's been a lot of talk about the has terd rule. and how reluctant he has been to break it. where is the hastert rule now? it is that the majority of republicans have to support something before it's brought to the floor of the house. it seems like a majority of republican the don't want a government shut down, so why did one happen? >> i think what you're seeing right now is that john boehner is actually really trying to protect his majority. and by not allowing, by, you know, holding onto the hastert rule and doing all of this obamacare defunding delay, he's preventing primary challenges for a lot of his members. and i think that that's, it's very difficult position for him to be in, both legislatively and politically. i think in his heart of heart, he doesn't want to see a shutdown. but his hands are tied by members and by conservative
outside groups who are saying, you know, we are willing to primary anyone who goes against us right now. >> i guess, i take, i don't take issue with what kate is saying because i think she's right. but this idea that somehow boehner would go down if he did the statesman like thing, which is of course to listen to the will of the american people and to continue forward with a project of american democracy and a representative democracy and introduce legislation that would pass in ten minutes in a bipartisan fashion. i mean john boehner wants an oil portrait hanging in the halls of congress after he retires from the speakership. and given that, why doesn't he take the high road? you treated earlier that there's a slight possibility that boehner's a genius and the tea party will dia well deserved death in the next few days. where do you think we are in that pross now that the government has been shut down? >> a lot will depend, or it will
entirely depend on the political reaction to the shut down. and as every polling organization in the united states is probably out right this minute trying to get the pulse of the american people, and if the polls and the buzz and the phone calls and the e-mails to the members of congress, if it turns very, very heavily negative against the government shut down, then you will see them change their positions overnight. and that's what we're really waiting for is for the american people to speak in some way that allows them to finally move forward. >> kate, we began this segment with an awesome, but actually in terms of timing ended up being slightly awkward bugs bunny clip of the dangers of touching a hot stove. but that was in reference to a politico story that said john boehner needs to let his party touch the hot stove and get burned so they don't approach it
again. that was in reference to the fight or fights in the future. do you think costa related to a divide. and that these younger guys don't remember '95 and '96 and need to experience this pain. do you think that's true? and do you think they can feel pain at this point? >> certainly, i've spoken to a lot of members in the last couple days running around on the hill who were here. and the staffers who were here who said that the government shut down in the '90s was just miserable. you have constituents calling your office, you know, every five to ten minutes. needing some kind of government service, needing help with something and there's nothing you can do. and at the end of the day, the feeling is, is that people will come back being more willing to compromise, being more willing to say, all right, let's pass a clean cr and then move on and
compromise in the regular legislative process. that's a big hope, though, because a lot of the republican members come from very republican districts. and this is exactly what their constituents have been asking for. it's difficult to tell them or convince them that this is not a good idea, because they really feel like they're hearing from their constituents to say please, please continue to, to stand on this principle, and don't, don't negotiate and hold the line there. >> bruce, where, where does ted cruz pop-up in the hours and days after this? i mean, he's been both cheering on the sidelines for an extreme stance and egging members of the house on over the edge in my opinion. and yet owning the government shut down is something he want does have no part in. we haven't heard from him in evening. his cohort mike lee came out and said obamacare, he started
working to defund obamacare because it's the president's own decision three wouldn't follow the law. americans would never have looked at this and seen the hypocrisy. does ted cruz weakened or strengthened at this point? >> it depends on how you define the terms. i think in terms of what he is ultimately trying to accomplish, which is to make himself president of the united states or at least the republican nominee for president in 2016, i think he has nothing whatsoever to lose. i think he's moving ahead. insofar as his influence within the congress, within the senate is concerned, i think he's certainly moved backwards in that respect, but i think he cares absolutely nothing about that. so it's a matter of no importance to him. but i think the important thing to understand here is that only half of americans vote in general elections and only a tiny percent vote if primary elections and a little over half
of that is what is needed to control one of the political parties and the tea party people are very fer vent, very disciplined. very well funded by pollute krats. and that's the whole reason why we have this problem. there's a very tiny minority of one party is really the tail wagging the entire dog. >> tyranny of the minority. thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you and congratulations. coming up, president obama said he would not let republicans use funding the government as a way to cave into their demands. president obama was not bluffing. that's next.
you don't have the votes! because the people elected democrats as the majority in the senate and the president of the united states. and they don't agree with you. you had to compromise. and what compromise are we talking about? we're taking your number! your number. and you will not take yes for an answer. how sad. what a shameful day this is. >> up next, president obama was not bluffing. that's coming up. i'm only in my 60's.
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pts the idea of putting the american people's hard earned work at risk is irresponsible and it does not have to happen. let me repeat this. it does not have to happen. the same way other congresses have for more than 200 years. >> in the spotlight tonight, president obama say no, sir to negotiations. seven hours before midnight, president obama stepped-up to the mic and once again told house republicans that despite
their delusional strategies, the affordable care act is law of the land. >> let me be clear about their. an important part of the affordable care act takes effect tomorrow, no matter what congress decide does do today. the affordable care act is moving forward. you can't shut it down. >> then the president clearly laid out his bottom line. >> i'm always willing to work with anyone of either party to make sure the affordable care act works better, to make sure our government works better. i'm always willing to work with anyone to grow our economy tags -- faster or to get our fiscal house in line for the long run. one faction of one party in one
house of congress in one branch of government doesn't get to shut down the entire government just to refight the results of an election. >> joining me now, msnbc's crystal ball, and former congressman patrick murphy. john boehner just had a press conference. it was almost more of a statement. you asked him if he had a response to the 800,000 government workers who now find themselves furloughed. and it didn't really sound like speaker boehner had an answer. >> reporter: i asked him that question. and he said the house has voted to keep the government open but we also want fairness for all americans under obamacare. i've covered john boehner since the day he became speaker, and i can tell you the only time i've ever seen him like this was he held a late press conference
when he announced he was no longer going to talk to president obama anymore. that was a sad john boehner, that was a dejektsed john boehner. he had one thing to say. he's usually quite jovial with reporters. he didn't want anything to do with us. he wanted to go to bed or plot the next step. one of the more underreported stories here on the hill is these federal workers are going to be furloughed. there's no guarantee they get their pay back. you're from dc. you know how many federal workers there are in the area. there's a real worry that because of the appetite for cutting spending in this congress, you can see this shut down go on for a few days and these phones be presefolks be p the house republicans saying why
should we pay you when you didn't work. but as far as where we move on from here your guess is as good as mine. apparently, that was supposed to be the magic bullet that was going to solve that. harry rooeeid is going to table later on today. they're still going to have to pass a clean cr bill. it's a question of when, not if. and we don't know. we do not know. there could be some more riders attached on the bills going back to the senate. but the house gop conference, they're not expected to meet until early in the morning. yes, house republicans, we can weather the first day or two of the government shut down okay. the longest i've heard is four or five days. the shortest is tomorrow at noon. >> congressman murphy, it is
fairly easy, i guess if you're a house republican to shut down the government, but actually getting it back up and running depends on democratic votes. and as trent franks says, i brief you have to have barack obama's permission as it were. you need democrats' help to get it going again. that is a very tough position for republicans. >> that is a tough position but completely false, by the way. the democrats aren't the ones that are holding our economy hostage right now and to go to an earlier point, my brother is an air force major. he's a thousand miles from his family right now. he's doing search and rescue for the air force. he was just told i'm not sure if he should report to work either. and he's not sure how he's going to get home when his tour is over. this is really going to cripple
the economy and hurt every day families. and these folks are laid off and you don't know if they're getting back pay. but for trent franks to say, the democrats -- the democrats are willing to put forth a clean cr. >> the thing we haven't talked about as much as we have talked about house republicans in disarray and terrible strategy is the power that the democrats now woeld and the fact that the president drew that tough line. and very shrewdly brought to bear that real people are going to suffer. these are cousinsen a brothers and sisters and neighbors of people. the effects of this will be felt around the country, fairly immediately unlike the sequester. >> they will be. we have seen the friend r president. he has a lot of credibility here. he has gone to the republicans. he has negotiated in the past. he has at times when myself and
other democrats have said you really should draw the line here. finally he said this is it. let's keep in mind, we're talking about a six-week cr, six weeks. so let's say that he gave them whatever ridiculous absurd thing that they want at this point. who's to say at six weeks from now they're not going to be demanding some other list of goodies. you are upsetting what the will of the people are and we're not even talking about a majority of the republican caucus. we're talking about 30, 40, 50 members of the republican caucus shutting down the government. it's an absurdity. and i was reminded of that famous will rogers quote, i don't belong to an organized party, i'm a democrat. finally, the democrats have a strategy and heading strong to their principles.
>> i have a quote from paul ryan and in the margin i wrote fool hardiness. nobody believes that. the president himself negotiated bowles simpson. i think most people think he's just posturing for now. i don't know that he should bet against the president's convictions at this point. >> reporter: it seemed that he left the door open on negotiating on entitlements. but i don't think you will see it to the degree of the past few years. there's not the time to have those grand bargaining discussions. you're now seeing this narrative which is being crafted by folks on the left and folks within the speaker's realm. it makes raising the debt limit that much easier by showing the
public pr the controversy. they've always felt that he's given away way too much. and nancy pelosi, she had a great line. she said i wish he'd never gaven away the 14th amendment option. you can see where house democrats minds are on this. and i think moving forward, they're going to be emboldened by their stance here. it's the most unified they've been. the republicans are left holding the hot potato and no one knows what's going to happen next. >> thank you all for your time tonight. >> reporter: good morning. have a good morning. >> coming up, despite all the insan its and heart break, the republicans did not succeed in stopping obamacare.
senate democrats chose to shut down the government rather than discuss the failures of obamacare. joining me now democratic congressman. what do you make of speaker boehner's line of argument? >> it's unbelievable. since april 23rd, we have been asking the speaker to appoint people to a conference committee to work out the differences in the budget. suddenly, 15 minutes before government shuts down they decide to make an offer to have a conference committee, when the real question is why aren't we just taking up the senate-passed cr. the president will sign it. the senate's already passed it. we know that a majority of the house would support it. so this notion that suddenly they want to talk when for seven months or six months we've been trying to get them to conference with the senate on a budget, it's just really insincere, and it's unfortunately, just another
example of john boehner's failed leadership. he's not the speaker of the house. i don't know what his job is, but he's certainly not the speaker. >> a searing assessment. what have you been given in terms of next steps here? the democratic caucus has seemed very much in line and organized surprisingly to those who have watched democrats over the years. but in terms of strategy, insofar as you can divulge what is the next move, what are we to expect from the left? >> we're going to be consistent. we have given a lot. the cr that we were ready to agree to was at the republican number. this is time for the adults in the room to take charge. we're going to continue to press, to just get government open again. and if the republicans want to have conversations about the affordable care act, about entitlements, about whatever, they know where to find us.
it's not like we've been missing. we've been waiting to talk to them. all we're doing, the reason that we're unified is that we're sticking to the principles that guided us as we were elected here. republicans talk about prince ppp pl. they have purposely set up to wreck the government, because they have a group of political arsonists over there that want to sit back and watch the house burn. and i've got to tell you, they are enjoying this. and it's really a sad day to see that. >> you said it's a priority of democrats to get the government back up and running, but do you see this as perhaps a point of leverage? for me, if we could just pass the senate cr and get back to discussion, i would be satisfied. it's really lard to tell because nobody's in charge in the republican conference. so it would be easier for us to
develop a strategy of engagement with them. unlike them. they don't know from one day to the next. it would be easier to have a strategy of engagement if we could figure out who we're supposed to talk to over there. it seems like the speaker of the house is ted cruz. they don't know who's running the show. >> it is hard to negotiate with an empty chair. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. up next, the government has shut down, and still republicans failed to defund obamacare.
549 of nasa's 18,250 employees will be at work because of the government shut down. only nasa employees working with ast astronauts on the space station and those who need to keep satellites running will be at work. even the mars rover curiosity is being furloughed. the explorer will be put in a protective mode for the duration of the shut down and will not collect any new data during that time.
the comedy writers at funny or die are trying to help spread the word on obamacare with help from jennifer hudson as a washington, d.c. fixer. >> this is my son. he doesn't have any health insurance. >> i thought you said this was a scandal. under the affordable care act, you will stay under your parents' plan until you're 26. >> my company's health care. it doesn't cover mammograms. >> the aca covers preventive care for women's health. that's it. girl, go find a scandal. >> it's my mistress. she's pregnant. >> finally, an actual scandal. >> she doesn't have health insurance. >> thank you fixer. >> go to health care.gov.
joining me now is national reporter for msnbc.com. a recent poll shows that the majority of americans, 59% of them oppose defunding the affordable care act if it is tied to a government shut down, and now, susie, weigh are in a government shut down. what are the repercussions for the republicans at this point? >> reporter: it's very interesting. a shut down was never going to stop this major piece of obamacare from taking effect. now at the very same minute that the shut down started, health care.gov is now live. the problem is now people are signs up for health care and they mike actually like it. it's going to be a while before people get on plans. even if you sign up now, it won't start until january. this is the democrats' hope, that this is going to be the major part of obamacare that's
going into effect and americans will understand what this was all about. >> beyond the obstruction and delay, house republicans have also tried to tie a couple thins to a continuing resolution, including a medical device tax, the addition of a conscience clause, to opt out of contraceptive coverage and the vitter amendment which would force the president and his staff and members of congress and their staff to participate in the health care exchanges. at what point do you think the republicans put a clean continuing resolution on the floor for a vote? >> reporter: i spoke with house members right after this plan was announced, right before they were going to go vote on it, and they, themselves, don't really know what the nest step is. the senate has already, basically vowed to regent this idea to go to conference. and basically democrats are going to sit back and wait and see what happens. you know, honestly, at every
turn of the day today, this last week, house republicans and outside observers alike have just been wondering what's going do happen. and i think that remains an open question. >> on the aca, the weirdness of the strategy cannot be overstated. republicans are pretty sure at the end of the day americans are going to love it. there seems to be an ever shrinking window for republicans to ten vilifying the aca because americans are going to like it. >> reporter: that's something you're hearing from a lot of democrats. i think democrats themselves and folks around the country are waiting to see what obamacare is going to be about. there are going to be technical glitches and bumps along the road. i think a core constituency of them are core believers. they believe obamacare is the end of america. i don't think it's a ploy to hurt the democrats it
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