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tv   [untitled]    October 20, 2010 7:00pm-7:30pm EDT

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she's available in the tills. the new entries being called a new mother told blanco switzer to look cool cool grown to make you a punk. go these photos literally photo then the princess radisson hotel going cold dream hotel buncoed so if it sells until a ground bone cold comes the city kowtowed blanco told blanco close enough and even called a role in the region. the
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french government stands firm on its plan to raise the retirement age is violent protests and industrial action paralyze the country and unions say around three million people have taken to the streets energy supplies have also been hit or seen in france to import electricity. and with the british government announcing the biggest reduction in public spending since the second world war some economists are saying the cuts should have gone even deeper almost five hundred thousand public sector jobs will go along with multi-billion pound cuts to the defense budget game is to reduce record deads well during the global financial crisis. and a show of loyalty to the terror attack on the chechen parliament on tuesday may have been a pledge of allegiance to al qaida that's according to the republic's interior ministry three people died seventeen were injured when four terrorists tried to seize the government building. headlines up next as crosstalk where host peter lavelle asas gas whether multi-culturalism has failed in the world stay with us
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here on our. first. and you can. follow me and welcome the crosstalk i'm here to about the issue of immigration has leapt to the top of the agenda throughout europe and the united states german chancellor angela merkel says attempts to build a multicultural society in germany have utterly failed is multiculturalism evolution or is it merely the stuff of cheap populist politics and elections coming
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. to. discuss multiculturalism today i'm joined by an ability to me in london she's a french journalist and commentator and in stockholm we we go to kent and go to all he's a member of parliament for sweden's democrat party and another member of our team on the hunger all right i think it's really important discuss our terms what multiculturalism is and i'd like to go to well now be infamous comments from the german chancellor let's listen what chancellor merkel had to say about multiculturalism in germany. of course the multicultural approach living side by side and being happy with each other this approach has failed. right now bill if i go to you is that how you understand the concepts the policy of multiculturalism the way it is expressed by the german chancellor and the german
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example. well i think if i may quote anglo-american mo calls were words she said we kidded ourselves a while we said they want to stay some time they will be gone but this isn't reality and she was obviously talking about the migrant workers who came to germany in the night in sixty's invited by the german government to rebuild the country after the war but this sentence testifies very clearly to the fact that the german government the successive german governments since world war two have made no genuine effort whatsoever to integrate these migrants within the wider german community they were not expected to stay they were not expected to settle down and have families and be in the build a life of their own they were expected to go back and therefore got the governments in germany have made no genuine effort to make them part of german society and
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made them feel comfortable and at home ok kendall if i can go to you i mean what is multiculturalism mean to you and again keeping the reference of chancellor merkel in mind. well i think her remarks are completely true and from what i've seen in germany multicultural multiculturalism hasn't worked there and had certainly not worked in sweden so you know our party is opposing multiculturalism and i don't know how the situation is in germany but for sweden we have given the immigrants we have had for the last thirty five years every chance every chance and every possibility to adapt this we decided education or work you name it they got it all but some groups they just didn't take it they have no interest in becoming swedish and becoming a part of our society and what we're seeing now in sweden in germany in england in the rest of europe is this same example everywhere that multicultural doesn't work
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and it's never never has worked and never will work in a bill i mean the immigrants have gone to your two respective countries for reasons because people don't want to do certain work that swedes used to do french used to do the english used to do they just don't want to do that work so i think there's kind of a dilemma here i mean these immigrants if we look at the german example were supposed to go home so someone else was supposed to pick up and do this work was disposed to be germans i mean i don't understand that we thought they were going to go home but who is going to do the work i mean it doesn't make any sense to me. that you're going to know a first person go ahead. it has to be noted that i'm going to merck as the speech was very clear in the sense that it was very nationalistic indeed she made it clear that germany had to make sure that german nationals were given a chance on the job market first before migrant communities. and hence that
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migrants immigrant workers or even now we're talking about their children second third and fourth generation of immigrants who have now become german themselves shouldn't be given a chance before anybody else well that's absolutely ludicrous when you listen to other politicians and commentators within german society who made it abundantly clear that there is a shortage a labor shortage in germany that they are indeed more people getting out of germany then people entering germany and that wherever possible the hurdles. to make which makes it complicated for people to come in should be. released a bit and make it more made it more flexible to welcome people can't you want to genuinely did it because you want to jump in and go ahead i think we have to differ
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between migration in sweden in the fifty's in the sixty's we had labor force immigration and mostly from european countries that are culturally closer to sweden than the immigrant groups we're taking in today but for the last thirty five or forty years we have not had workforce integration we have had an asylum and close to kin immigration has nothing to do with the labor market that's not why the motivate the mass immigration that sweden has nothing to do with labor market it's about helping people they see and thus in the night and simplifies sweden decided that we're gonna adopt a multicultural society and that was different from the kind of policy we had in the fifty's in the sixty's. were immigrants were expected to adapt to the swedish society and not the other way around and also this argument about aging population and we need workforce they've been saying that for thirty forty years this they say that all the time it never it's never true when they talk about the people going into pension in sweden but over half of them are already pensioners and we're still
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having unemployment of ten percent so in all of those arguments it's not really what it's about ten percent if we can stay with that number that percentage or that's about the number of immigrants or migrants in europe right now ten percent of. the bill if i can go to you is that really big number i mean ten percent is this what this is all about just ten percent. i think governments in europe in general are facing dire economic problems and it's very easy in such a context to play on anti immigrant feelings within societies and to conjure up the fantasy specter of foreigners who are to be blamed for economic social and political problems when clearly governments are failing to tackle these very problems and we have seen a resurgence of islamophobia within europe in general when governments have
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attempted to link very clearly everything that's foreign and everything that's muslim in particular with crime of all sorts and that's the case in germany that's the case in france where sarkozy's government and sarkozy himself doesn't have made several a keynote speeches were his he was determined to link everything that's alien with a crime thus criminalise in coal communities to expel them this was the case with the roma community with afghans whom he sent back to afghanistan to a war zone effectively this is now the case with immigrants who if caught committing a crime in it will be expelled from france and this has been extended the government in france wants to now extended to young french nationals of foreign background who should be deprived of their citizenship if they are caught breaking the law so this
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determination mr link no bill is known is like an interesting time for example here is that is that legal under european union standards and law. well if you take the roma situation for example the french government is clearly breaking every e.u. legislation it's even ignoring warnings from human rights organizations like amnesty international which stresses very strongly that rumor as european citizens are free to move within the e.u. so there is no such thing as being deported back home home is the european community they are free to move everywhere within that within those bought borders ok came to if i can do go to you do you think the czar causey's model is a good one for the rest of europe and why well i'm not entirely up to speed what the legal requirements that france i mean you mean changes what do you what does your party want to do with the the element of immigration what your elbows your
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what your platform where. we want to restrict immigration from especially middle eastern african countries were saying that asylum and close to kin immigration should be lowered by ninety percent in sweden and in addition to that we want assimilation instead of integration integration means that you meet halfway but we want to sweden to adapt to swedish society not the other way around so want assimilation policy that we actually had in the fifty's and the sixty's in this when and if we had had this policy for the last thirty five forty years we could have avoided the dire economic consequences that the mass immigration has brought to sweden and every survey both nationally in sweden and international shows that the kind of immigration and sweden many other your pink countries have today hurt the economy very bad and then in addition to that we have social factors and cultural factors that affect sweden and negatively ok the vilifying go do you i
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mean everyone talks about the cost of immigrants and governments what's your opinion on that i mean they pay taxes than today. absolutely they are part and parcel of societies and they are to do the jobs that let's be honest about it nationals are not really ready to do and it's again a fantasy argument to say that they tap into the. social benefits for example or they tap into society to take advantage of society without bringing any contribution whatsoever this is absolutely ludicrous many many surveys have showed the exact opposite there are huge asset to any society they move into and i daresay the core problem when you talk about integration or simulation is to deal with discrimination and societies should have effective bodies to tackle discrimination
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problems on the job market in housing in education many surveys show very explicitly that foreigners are targeted are often the victims of anti discrimination policies and they usually come from the state itself so all governments need to implement a very strong anti discrimination policy and we're going to in order to make people feel it and then return to that point when we come back after the break we'll continue with our discussion on immigration stay with dark. like millions of americans i've lost thousands of dollars in retirement funds and i
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haven't had as bad as many it's not just about yeah it's about the. brown. that is. insane. and g.-d. . needed. now . since this is my film i get the last word this financial crisis will not be turned off like a light switch. every month we give you the future we help you understand how to get there and what tomorrow brings the best in science and technology from across russia and around
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the world. join us for technology update on our g.
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welcome back to talk i'm peter look i'll remind you we're talking about policies towards immigrants. but before let's look at russia's experience one shouldn't venture into other's homes well the plan of one's own it's
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a proverb that is rapidly becoming more than that after german chancellor angela merkel's claim that the german forty year multicultural project has failed while debate on the issue is right in europe in russia it's not so acute the russian public opinion research center asked citizens if they had ever faced discrimination because of their ethnicity it to one percent said they had never had such problems and only thirteen percent said they had moreover most russians tend to believe interaction and openness toilets other nations cultures and religions are inherent to the nation. and now we're joined by carl erik norman in berlin he is the founder and general secretary of the european cultural parliament our i know you were listening first part of the program i'd like to ask everyone here this there's a chicken in the egg vicious circle going on here if their image grants don't
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assimilate it causes racism but if there is racism there is very little reason to assimilate or to be integrated goes around in around karl fine go to use and jam it on the program and how do you resolve that it isn't any different than is eight different countries experiencing different experiences with this to different degrees. well if i understand your question correctly i think. i would answer the question in the following way neither in germany nor in sweden there is in a bet any basic races. but if we're the wrong kind of policy and if politicians for instance which has been the case in germany and which was addressed by the consulate in the article the other day if a tendency has been that the policy is failing for because they have neglected various aspects then they scanned in the first inverse case even lead to respond to
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most against. various groups of foreigners in the host countries can't you want before the break you want to address something similar to the bill brought up in the first part of the program go ahead. first and foremost about a canonical issue as i said every survey in sweden shows that it's a huge cost even taking account tax benefits from immigrants and the immigrants that i'm talking about is not western it is not norwegians or english or whatever it's mostly from cultural countries that are cultural far from sweden those so you are using are saying muslims right is that what you're saying i'm saying i'm saying mostly from the middle east and africa ok well then to say that way ok yeah and in addition to that i'd say you're talking about discrimination in sweden there's a what reverse discrimination against swedish people the government has introduced laws that actually discriminate swedish people for being swedish on the labor
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market and worse in this way that the government pays immigrants is that part of the salary every job category and what job categories are that. for people studying swedish and if they are looking for a job somewhere the state pays up to seventy five percent of that salary but if you swedish you don't get this benefit which means you have an ethnic demonstration this commission against a very decent that is not promoting assimilation if you do all these things you get a reward that's what you want you want these people to blend in right we can never accept ethnic discrimination against swedes in their own country this is the wrong way to do it so when you talking about formal discrimination from the government and the below mentioned in sweden we have it against swedish people ok now bill if i go to you i mean this whole issue of maybe i should have stressed more discrimination like in the job force you know i mean if you are discriminated you can't. if you're a second or third generation and you can't make it it would never however that's defined that it creates
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a sense of resentment and then that that turns the the outgroup to look inward again i mean you know there's six million muslims that live in russia and they seem to be quite content here for the most part because they're given the same opportunities it doesn't matter what your background is what kind of job you're going to get ahead. yeah i think the question of racism and discrimination is really the crux of the matter france actually stands out in terms of its model of integration as it doesn't promote multiculturalism and it promotes a simulation which means that the emphasis is on equality instead now the reality is very different. when you see that french people of ethnic minority backgrounds are very much discriminated against when it comes to job opportunities or access to education or housing even for example the national figures for the national unemployment rate is ten percent it reaches twenty seven percent for immigrants and
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goes as high as forty percent for young people of foreign background they do not have the same access to education they're not given you know access to decent accommodate education let alone access to elite schools as far as accommodation is concerned they are stuck on housing estates literally cutout from the rest of society so this is actually very staggering and worry and worrying and when you look at britain for example when you have very strong antidiscrimination bodies like the commission for racial equality now the human rights commission which was founded in one thousand nine hundred seventy six it's french equivalent was only founded in two thousand and five and every year it didn't it's it's blatant failure to tackle discrimination so that that doesn't help people to feel you know at home and part of french society or any other society if you're not being treated as
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a first class citizen ok. coming there from where you are just going to you anyway go right ahead. ok yes i think there is less of a problem that people have to say that the state or the authorities have to spend money on learning swedish in sweden i'm swedish also as you know or learning german in germany the problem has rather be even that not enough effort has been put on this integration through language which is a very important step another thing which has been neglected i think in both these countries that i know best and in some other european countries as well. that is the fact that the countries have not taken care of the resources that the immigrants have scaled that labor germany right now are shouting for three hundred to four hundred thousand. jobs which are places at the labor market to
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fail and at the same time engineers and high qualified. demolitions are driving taxi or an inert or doing secondary nurse job in hospitals so that it's a bigger problem that their most global problem however. own another level namely the fact that their population growth in africa for instance and subcontinental india is so big and that the western countries have totally neglected their family planning in this part of the world ok inability ok can't if i go to you can i ask everybody this here about identity is europe now more intolerant of having a hyphenated identity i mean i think the bill you point out in france they don't go
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for that too much but i mean those days coming to an end where you know if you. to live in sweden you have to be swedish which defined on the ground ok and germany and france excedrin mean you know because we use always think or maybe it was just a myth about europe about multiple identities european identity and sub one swedish german french accent and there's no room for a muslim identity if i go to the bill of first on that one yeah i think there is a very clear intent in there is governments in europe to suppress the muslim legacy or muslim roots within the european community it's no coincidence that merkel's made his speech in front of a christian democratic union party and this states and were taken of by other christian parties so there they are there's a definite attempt here to exclude everything that muslim or the muslim legacy within the european union. in the instance of france for example the french model
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suppresses the expression of differences and. if you put forth if you manifest you know your foreign culture or religion then you are being seen as disloyal and i don't think it's fair people when people migrate they come with a religion with a culture with a history and there should be room for that it's very unfair to tell people to drop all these very valuable luggage at the doorstep to become french only it doesn't make sense to me of course they have to take this new citizenship extremely seriously and this you know goes through mastering the language and abiding by the law but the vast majority of migrants do that anyway ken what do you think about that. well i think you're missing the point. at the general level it's not about social factors not about or they poor their living bad housing or anything of
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that matter what what matter is cultural matters you bring with you a culture and that culture is going to define how well you will adapt to western a swedish society etc there's actually surveys in sweden when it comes to crime that shows that immigrant groups especially from middle east and africa are grossly over a presented when it comes to violent crimes rape murder abuse and so on and even taken account social factors they're still grossly over of a center when it comes to us and we believe that this has to do with the values values on how you see and you should treat women values and how you see crime and punishment cultural matters it's what's what's important here and you can see that all around europe i mean in sweden you have no excuse for not behaving you get access. to time and i want to go to karl because karl has been heard enough go ahead errol thank thank you well i think the value was certainly important but in my.


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