tv [untitled] July 27, 2011 11:30am-12:00pm EDT
welcome back you're with alex you live from moscow with me over a century a quick recap now the headlines notorious american security firm blackwater goes on trial for billing the government for killing civilians in iraq i'm just like claims of atrocities against innocent people the u.s. resorts to using more contractors on for. norwegian intelligence says the far right suspects who admitted to deadly terrorist that they claim seventy six did act alone
but europe's a growing and nationalistic mood is feeling fears of more violence elsewhere. britain is officially recognizing in libya's opposition as the country's legitimately stepping up the diplomatic offensive against colonel gadhafi it's also on freezing one hundred fifty million dollars over libyan oil assets to help fund the red. carpet to stick around in half an hour's time. but for now people have. no way atrocities could set in motion unseen islamic movements across europe thanks for the watch. well see british science. because.
markets. can find out what's really happening to the global economy for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to cause a report on our g. keep. following the welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle the color of charism as norway comes to terms with its most horrific attack on its soil since the second world war a plethora of questions than answers how could this assault be planned and executed under the radar of the authorities and as the west focused too much on islamic groups instead of homegrown extremists and terrorists. can. start. to cross talk the rise of far right
nationalism i'm joined by my guest in london ali he's chair of the muslim safety forum and stephen gassy a spokesperson for stop islamization of europe all right gentlemen this is cross type that means you can jump in anytime you want but first let's see how the oslo attacks may influence political discourse in europe. wow ok the tragedy that struck norway on friday has become yet another grim reminder of the growing threat of far right extremism a problem long since recognized but unresolved in europe with the body count still in progress authorities and politicians in europe are left to re-evaluate the spread of domestic radicalism and possibly recast the profile of a modern day terrorist i am the overall sense of grief over such a high death toll as a result of the bombing of a federal building and are slow and the shooting rampage at a labor party youth camp. will be lawyers. but we have. more democracy. in. the region
people to the admission of the need to ask hard questions particularly how one man was able to burn such destruction without being stopped will want to make sure that we like all those any lessons there are to learn about how to be more secure against horrific rages like this indeed lessons need to be learned to identify terrorist threats such as the charge anders behring breivik long before they happen has fifteen hundred word manifesto posted hours before the carnage denounced the government's failure to protect norway from islamic influence nurtured and europe's growing climate of hatred that comprises a mix of anti immigrant sentiments racism and economic recession brave exposition mirrors a civilised political debate about multiculturalism across europe. this is not a cultural approach to simply leave. and a hippie brought each other his approach his field onto the field the attacks upon
the old questions that strike a chord with politicians across the entire political spectrum what does it mean to be european tolerant and open the answers to these questions until very different outcomes the most extreme of which will spoil it out in our slow was the question but now hans public opinion and policymakers since the nine eleven attacks against the us the western world has focused its attention and resources on what it deems as security threats from the islamic world so will the attacks on our slow carried out meticulously by a right wing christian prompt the worst to college the new face of a modern day terrorist suspect. it was a channel for class stock. market as i'd like to start with you in london do you think how do you look at it this horrific attack in our so this is it extensions of the type of rhetoric that we hear from right wing political parties in europe this gentleman before he pulled off this horrific.
attack used the language that you can hear it very often across europe about. about immigrants immigration about islam about the koran except for so here's a man that spoke in extreme terms in attitude even more extreme yes absolutely and let me add my condolences and heartfelt sorrow for what did take place i mean this barbaric acts of terrorism that took place is an extension of and see muslim islamophobia a trend that is sweeping europe and it is like you mentioned the extreme end of that wedge and unfortunately i think i do agree with a lot of what your reporter said earlier which is that disproportionate amount of resources and time has been allocated in dealing with one strand of terrorism at the expense of others we have europol and others who have indicated for years way
back from two thousand and six that the threat from extremism and acts of terrorism is something real and should be taken seriously ok stephen what do you think about this attack here because again this is norwegian man i mean he was part of a lot of these different groups had repaired european that were very anti immigration and i'm muslim and here's and he step further he stepped way over the line in our slow what is the difference between the rhetoric that we hear across europe and the little bit of the an inch further where you get this kind of attack . well first of all i have to join my fellow guest in offering my condolences and commiserations to the families of the victims and also in norway itself is a complete disgusting act the this man perpetrated you get your question i actually think this man is a one off he's reported as being an anti islam and but it's notable that the target
that he chose was wasn't muslims it wasn't gnostics or anything like that it was indeed the ruling party of norway the rhetoric that he espoused and. a myriad some of the language that he used against islamist at the moment but he is diametrically opposed to stop islamization of europe's tactics and methods and strategies because we have always been a peaceful organization we've always had demonstrations conferences and i've written articles. and such events are always authorized and okayed by the police the north or it is here we are a peaceful organization and this woman is in my view a one off i live in the north of england and recently we've had i just want to make this point because. this is an exception that proves the rule really in north of england not far from where i live we had
a similar event of mass murder and nobody knows what the motivations were for the her horrific attacks this man is reported to be in an anti islamist we have no record of him joining our group at all he was summarily thrown out of the facebook group which is the fleetest contact that he had with us. so if he was found out that he had not see links on your nazi links he was thrown off because we're fundamentally anti totalitarian as a group we oppose not only the army here or corporate communism or nazis ok is that there is going to be there you want to find out i had as i yeah i mean. i think stephen what he says is his half right which is that met the tactics are different but the rhetoric is the same this man is in his own words he is an anti muslim and he hates muslims and the reason he chose his government and these young people on a holiday island is because he sees them as the people who failed to protect
norwegian society from this influence of islam in his own eyes and his links to far right extremist organizations like the english defense league is well documented and we had last night the leader of the english defense league actually issued a threat on live on national television saying you know in five years' time you can expect similar attacks in the in the u.k. so the link there is very very strong ideology ideologically they come from the same place yes the tactic this individual decided to take was different however he's not alone he's already told the police but you know there's fifteen to eighty people there who are ready to do what he's done is declaring himself to be belong to the knights templars you know where we're going back into history here he is bringing up. the rhetoric of the crusades so this man is not acting alone his not
deranged he's not a lunatic he knows exactly what he's doing and he did it in a calm collected and very very well organized way how on earth can this be done the planning there was for years without being detected from the security services or anyone else simply the answer is simply because this property. now amount of time has been placed on looking at one strand of terrorism at the expense of the other what do you think about that stephen because you know if it's the we can call this blonde on blonde terrorism here because we will talk a little bit later about the disproportional focus on islam in europe when it comes to terrorism which actually i did some research it's miniscule can compared to other terrorist acts committed by nationalist groups in europe but what about that i mean you know if you look at the media the first thing you hear was oh it's the islamic attack on europe and then they shifted it ok and then all the sudden it became a fundamentalist i mean even the rhetoric and how we talk about these things is so
completely different because of a skin color of a religion and war some people come from in the world. well first of all i'd like to say that the react the immediate reaction shows that. it was the exception that proves the rule the automatic assumption was that it was not from terrorism because that is the norm for our present valley's. sorry that is like the saying you're sorry. i didn't did i didn't interrupt you and i'm not i will have my story on the air and i'm very sensitive and sure. but basically. i don't believe he has any links at all to any right wing groups and the language i agree with the fellow i guess the language actually has to change the left wing and right wing far right far left it is meaningless now people are more sophisticated in that we go people from a broad spectrum of political persuasions on our demonstrations are not left wing
the not right wing they perceive a threat to their culture and identity and they come out and demonstrate against it . this knights templar thing i think it's complete boning i don't believe they exist it's something that historically are manipulation nationalist and a fervent english nationalist and i know of the groups that are involved with english nationalism in this knights templar to me is a complete fabrication so i don't believe it is got any links in torah with any english nationalists. the thing i was going to say was i going to want to jump in there before we go to break my head here and i mean what what stephen fails to recognize and this of problematic is since nine eleven there has been a concerted and well organized orchestrated campaign for many a conservative islamophobia groups think tanks in patrolling anything that happens in the world as you know the support of islam is the fault of muslims etc etc
that's why you had when this horrific act took place that's why you had experts one after the other coming in and saying things like i would this has. the whole months of al qaeda this is an islamist that's ok so i mean jump in here we're going to go after a substantial and short break we'll continue our discussion on the oslo tragedy stay with r.t. . just sunk deep into. the if. you want to call. the last time the close of team was in the cool gun region where men flock from all over the world to have a few centimeters to their self-confidence. this time archie goes to the on the region the fall for the cold war still gets people like joe good morning to try to fight to save its culture. where cranes are protected in the
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can. be. well. you're all about to remind you we're talking about extremism in europe. can. live. ok as i want to go back to you in a comment that you made before we went to the break about how the media and al qaeda it's quite interesting that in the fifteen hundred page manifesto that was left behind there was an enormous amount of admiration actually for al qaeda because of its tactics i mean that is going to be one of the greatest ironies in all this considering that media and many politicians including the united states and simply said this is al qaeda or al qaeda like operation this is this telling us they were missing this is a huge security lapse on the part of western governments because it's their own
homegrown people that are committing most of these acts of terrorism. yeah i mean before i answer that if i could finish the point i was trying to make earlier even today you would find mainstream media do not call what took place in wall a a terrorism out they don't report it as a terrorist act there that you know they call it everything but terrorists acts that's one thing second thing is like we heard our prime minister and he doesn't use the word terrorism this man's admiration for terrorism is of plain if he using his own words to admire another terrorist organization and here we are denying that this man is have his committed is anything but an act of terrorism and i think this rhetoric that the media has you know over over the last ten years been caught aerated in moscow what we need to do is we need to work on facts you know if we so really believe in one society many cultures here where we are one society but we allow for many cultures and people to have the individual freedoms human rights to
do as they please within the boundaries of the law but for us to and sustain this and maintain this we have to operate. with integrity and unfortunately a lot of our commentators politicians and media do not meet those requirements. are the same it is a fact it is a fact of media then we went from a terrorist attack to a lunatic a nutcase christian fundamentalists i mean it should be but the act is no different than a now could carry that would be nine eleven oklahoma city seven seven in london i mean it's the same thing but it's a fundamental sense and that case. well i agree entirely with that site cyo has the view that anders breivik is every bit as much an enemy of democracy as those who bombed the london buses and tubes and that's not only most famous it also includes irish fascists who found london island back in the eighty's so you know
this is a strategy which is a terrorist strategy and i'm pleased the points being made because i totally agree this was an act of terrorism the thing about other to get back to the point about. bravery and. what was said regarding the fact that the leader of the d.l. on the program. british television last night i was invited to speak on our program and i wish to make a point made the point that he was a one off he isn't. he doesn't resemble or is not representative of the groups that are demonstrating or and here's the missed if you like he's a one off so i don't think there's kind of a any more of these kinds of actions search you know that work other than a real story so you can we all agree i just heard the news and they did hear you just does that does that make one point i think what we will see we will see the
kind of actions that peter tatchell talk against the church of england synod where he invaded and i think we're going to see maybe mosques personality invaded or muslim gatherings being disrupted that may happen so those are still going to. be and i don't believe i don't believe you know again i'm going to see any. can carry on and go ahead so i mean you were just going to you were just going to say there was a going to be an act of terrorism we have five mosques there has been sent powder wipe out a substance that the police are treating very very seriously we have mosques that are daily vandalize we have muslims that have been killed we have an elderly man who was killed on a bus simply because he was a muslim and with. the language of you muslim go back home look see i did say really very very seriously this we have we have a senior research scholar i am going to have
a senior police officer said well and you are saying terrorist the way out the right wing is very very likely ok this is the reality when he was it it was well received. i had i did a freedom of information request to crown process prosecution service about that murder at the bus stop and asked why it wasn't treated as a racist attack as it was in the first place and the reason was it was it wasn't right wing nationalist as you like to call them who perpetrated that murder it was a group of local youths had nothing to do with any right wing groups a tour and the crown prosecution service actually out for skated all the requests i may and in the end they said they were going going to give me no information because it. was it was concerned with the case notes and they weren't subjects people like people like the leader of the e.t.l. they admire i mean he wasn't a national television green with many of the messages out of the fifteen hundred words he only disagreed with one thing which was the terrorist act itself but he
agreed with everything else the rhetoric was there and then before he finished he categorically issued a threat saying in five years' time this is going to happen unless you wake up unless you wake up it is the this is the last thing is i want to say this person is alone when he was seriously on the whole inishmaan point similarly from what is. what this person in europe he told the norwegian police there's another two cells ok he's put in his own manifesto and he's mentioned that in the weeks and police already he's worked with english defense league there are seven million dollars i literally stand in regard to that that's an important point stephen you can reply to that please go ahead are i said to serve on news papers and television that i don't believe that this sort of thing is going to happen again that underline threat that you've got if we're not listen to you're going to see more terrorist attacks i just think sir i believe it's a load of rubbish we're not going to see this kind of thing happen in england we're not going to see it happening across europe this man was
a one off nobody will ever get to know what his motivations were but i will say this about that i would praise that his hearing is being held in secret because we've been trying for years to get to the place of islam in western democracy discussed and all we've been called a fascist and a phobic race is ok because this is not just any good anyway the point so this man for forfeited his rights by this atrocious act of mass murder i don't want to hear is views because he is a murderer he focused even steven he laughed his usual line teary nobody's views are he left fifteen hundred pages of mine i thought i'd like to go to you when the police when the police apprehended him they called him by his name they knew who he was. exactly how this is something i think is very interesting i mean they know the music he was around he knew it is views were but he bought six tons of
fertilizer that's a huge security last can you imagine someone with the name vine sick son fertilizer there will be a raid immediately and this is the point i was making earlier i wasn't. going to follow you when you do you know allocate your resources disproportionately the you will make these be clearing mistakes ok then this is known to notifying interests and he bought the ball. but that's not what he said point is second point is very very naive force the verne and very very dangerous and you know and we all hope there are no more terrorism acts but it's very very naive to think that this was a one off and it's not like it's a happened if you look at the right wing and slimy and sunni muslim rhetoric in europe it is far higher than the u.k. for sure we have countries in the u.k. countries in europe who are banning certain acts of islam so they've banned the
minaret they've banned the wearing of all of these things i don't even use that in the u.k. it's not that bad at the moment they go he says it's good so now we knew impinge on people's human rights and what are you talking about a liberal democracy you talk about democracy you could model and even require that you must do it i replied that i had stephen replied that's a very good point because you look at saudi arabia which is the center of islam that's where america is all of the religions are banned and yet the western governments germany has just so i just. wanted to finish go let me interrupt you will not be interrupted here stephen. germany is just so two hundred tanks to. saudi arabia and we've sold jet fighters stead dubiously now you can bet your life not one of those tanks will find its way to afghanistan to fight the taliban nor will it will they find their way into iraq to fight al qaida in the fall of their.
own little telling her prefer surge perverse forms of islam is not the jewel to lead us to be attacked islamiah last night or do we have a woman's decision to wear a certain type of clothing what on earth are you. going to run. and how do you know you guys story are you going towards your salary is a like we're very lucky because i'd like to ask you let me give you the last word in the program and in the figs where do you think the multiculturalism discussion is going to go now in europe after this horrific event. i think people with common sense will see that we need to be one society with many cultures and we need to be on the front four which is being positive building relationships understanding each other i think the rhetoric of what's the even represents and his organization represents is is the cause of the things that we have just like it is for any religion any ideology extremists you know we need to shun them and we need to
marginalize them and unfortunately stephen represents those kind of views so the way forward is that we are working on our farm for bill positive relationship and recognize that we are one society with many cultures ok stephen you're a pilot and before we end well mohammed was the original terrorist he was the one who coined the phrase which is in the koran which is taught in every mosque throughout the world muslims make war on the co far who dwell around you and you are need say no nor he was the original terrorist he was the original not say who clones the i review peninsular of all jews all right gentlemen there was a very heated debate here many thanks to my guest today in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time and remember rascals. in the. street. if you come.