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tv   World Apart with Oxana Boyko  RT  June 16, 2013 2:29am-3:01am EDT

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but baiting turning a country from a model muslim democracy just a month ago into a case study of growing authoritarianism there are both of these descriptions well to stop that i'm now joined by like and columnist for the mana one of turkey's leading newspapers thank you very much for your time sir. we've seen a lot of protests in recent years both in the region and beyond and i think it's fairly easy to cost turkey as just another country to getting into the rally mood but i would argue that what we're seeing in turkey of these days is very different fundamentally different from what we saw in the arab spring countries and in the west of it they occupy movement would you agree with that yes i would definitely agree with not making a comparison with the arab spring. has been made at the start of what you're into now i think turkey of today is in a totally different position than egypt or tunisia or libya in two thousand and
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eleven. the prime minister with all the criticism that i think he deserves has been elected three times democratic elections all going to have the comparison with the occupy movement to a certain extent. correct i mean they're occupying a small piece of land that's happened in other parts of you know in the states with the occupy movement there they're reflecting or they're voicing concerns about the present government shared by many people outside of the park but i think you're actually hearing a very important point that's where i think the the protests are so different is because during the occupy protests and actually and some of the arab spring protests as well the main grievances for economic of course there were some political slogans but people were primarily concerned about the economy inflation unemployment but turks. i cannot really complain on this front because the economy
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exceeded all their expectations so this is really the first round of products that are purely political and i wonder how deep seated do you think these political grievances really are it is indeed political it's about democracy it's about the style of government one can see the grievances focus more and more i would say on the on the person the personality of the prime minister who has a style that is seen by some as blunt and this is where these protests really get to being authoritarian because as you pointed out ultimately it's all about him obviously he has the support of the party he still has the support of the significant portion of the turkish population but it's all about he's views and he's somewhat uncompromising way of implementing those views so it is indeed authoritarian in nature i mean the prime minister has done
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a lot of good things for turkey one should not forget that in criticizing him no one should also look back ten years and see where he took turkey from two thousand and two two thousand and twelve having said that it's true that especially since his reelection in two thousand and eleven when he got fifty percent of the votes he has the tendency probably was always there but no one can see it more in the open to to to to to say to tell people to do push his lifestyle or his idea of what is a good life to push back on the rest of turkey and i think. that there's a lot of people in turkey. but they don't want to be told by the prime minister not by anyone how they should lead to their life speaking about the economy you just mentioned that turkey has been doing very well on the economic front and much of it is probably here to the credit of our don but i have seen some
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turkish observer suggesting that at least partially these protests in taxi was due to a growing resentment among turned towards these very cozy relationship between the government on the one hand and real estate companies on the other hand we have to keep in mind that one of the proposed ideas here was to build this shopping mall now i don't believe that this is of course the main reason but since it's the ball is in the midst of never and construction boom do you feel like people are really getting tired of these never ending building and construction process yes there are two different things one is indeed as you mentioned the close links. within the past with previous governments one has to admit that between the present government and big construction companies and clearly there's an interest among the big construction companies for this building and construction wave to continue that's
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one thing and the second thing and that is where many of the protesters come in these people feel not involved in all these major decisions whether it's about the rich across the bosphorus. port people have the feeling that this is being decided in the small circle the prime minister and some of his aides because we know that may be done it's pushed upon society i first got my first wind of this growing resentment of it in to turkish society about a year ago when my turkish friend. frustrated about islamic courses being added to the primary school curriculum you've been covering turned. for quite some time i wonder whether these protests and the persistence came as a surprise to you did you expect something like that you. know i think in the nobody could predict or has predicted what is taking blues now as you rightly said
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it was known also among my friends that there was a lot of unhappiness frustration with some of the measures and especially again the style of governing of the of the prime minister that was known but nobody knew when this would. get together and explode in the way that we are seeing now and i want to mention one interesting point you know that russia. really on different ideological sides when it comes to syria these days there's a lot of disagreement between the leaders but whenever we have the meetings been on and put in for example they're always very amicable so it's not like mr are the one cannot tolerate any dissent or any divergent opinion it's just it seems that he's not able to take it from his own people no i mean to be honest i don't want to insult anybody in russia but there's a comparison made by many and i would share that is that what we're seeing mr
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everyone doing is in the way a copy of what mr putin has been doing a russia. leader you know and i agree with that so we are seeing a sort of put to ask the one that is not something that many turks want to buy i want to put a block for mr putin if i may obviously russia has seen a wave of public protests earlier this year or last year and i think the the main difference is that these protests were tolerated there are people who dislike putin but they can take to the streets and voice that opinion openly without being. gassed without being showered by water seriously i mean what was the last time when you saw. russian people being subjected to tear gas attacks when was the last time i haven't seen i. know not to guess at that but i mean i'm not convinced to be honest by the fact that people can go out on the street really in moscow and say that they don't like us to put this policy this is what was happening all last year
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but again this is not a program about mr putin it's a program about mr nair though and. i want to go back to the issue of protest and what what was interesting to me is that he used all sorts of belligerent language to discredit protesters he called them losers he called them looters he called them foreign agents but i think that it really got to a very high level probably over the top when he started using the word terrorism and here is exactly how he phrased it. not only will we end the actions we will be at the necks of the. terrorists and no one will get away with it. i think that's quite a charge for turkey especially given that thankfully we haven't seen so many casualties that we've seen in some of their other protests in the region do you think there is any chance any unfortunate potential for these unrest to be used by some
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hostile a group some hostile powers to bring violence to an even higher level probably for some political goals no one should be careful there i mean on the prime minister has fortunately on several occasions also made the difference between on the one hand the protesters the peaceful protesters in the parking gezi park people who stay there for for many nights and days now and who haven't used any violence then what we can see on the square of the taksim central square is that there's a bunch of i would say radical left extreme left organizations. much more radical and violent and among them is is there. marxist leninist organization that has taken responsibility for a terrorist attack on the american embassy. in tehran and so that's ok so this context it's a rather sweeping up of course there i mean i would definitely despise these people
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from this organization called to say they are there they are protesting and they have been involved in terrorist attacks but it's would be a major mistake and that's why i didn't like the way the prime minister said it in general suggesting that many of these people at the square are terrorists they're not protesters also accused the government of. using some sort of provocateurs you know some individuals throwing molotov cocktails attacking protesters i know you've been reporting on there on this issue. quite a in detail have you seen any of that are those reports credible of provoke a tourist police provocateurs being here. i mean to be honest i don't know i've seen the images i've seen the accusations and i can tell playing cloth it's a person who throws a lot of cocktail whether he's part of a leftist organization or where he's a police spy i don't know there are all kinds of claims. going around these days.
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i think i should be very careful in saying yes there were police organized provocateurs i simply don't know ok and just before we go into the break very quickly. we mentioned the uncompromising language used by the prime minister but also within his own party there are people who sound far more conciliatory for example president putin he seems to be willing to reach out to protesters from your experience i wonder whether it is. playing good cop bad cop game or just a sign of you know some diversity of political diversity within the party itself i think it that for me a sign of political diversity within the ruling party it's clear and this is not the first time that the president missed one of the founders of the party a long time friend of the of the prime minister is not happy with some of the policies of the prime minister and this includes the way he handles this particular issue the problem is that the prime minister over the last ten years has got such
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a big grip on the party that it's more than one party he decides and he makes he makes all the major decisions that's the problem but there's definitely a lot on these within his own party right now and will continue discussing these and other problems just after a short break. well . this month high tech means good health whether it be the latest laser cutters or lifesaving heartfelt russian innovators are working hard to keep you healthy for some companies it's been a winding road from car simulators to cutting edge streaming systems for others it's been a lifetime of work along the mysteries of this chicken on technology are we going to the future.
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welcome back to all the parts we are discussing become plot cities of turkish protests but we also like a columnist for a daily them on. mr larkin dyke i think the turkish prime minister
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almost made it his specialty over the last couple of years to disband he's advised the other leaders on how not to be authoritarian and i believe back in early two thousand and eleven he told hosni mubarak before he's told that quote no government can survive against the will of its people and a bit later he really elaborated that idea in his address to bashar al assad in november two thousand and eleven here's what he had to say back then can you hold to if you want to see someone who fought against his own people until his own death chick nazi germany hitler chick mussolini remain is before there's more bloodshed before there's more torture for the sake of your own people country and region give up your power step down. now do you think the people in turkey see any of the parallels between the speeches he made back then and what he's saying now people definitely make the comparison. as we discussed before one should be
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careful in comparing mubarak with the one i think the comparison doesn't run very smoothly but these words these calls from the prime in the prime minister all his colleagues to take the concerns of the people seriously of course that has been voiced now in turkey as well saying ok you called upon and mobarak situations that was different but the call could be done on him now but the concerns you mentioned like so mr i can tell you can i challenge you on that because you you say that this station is totally different but i think the first. impulse of arizona was pretty much the same as the first impulse that is to suppress the protest both have used accusations of some foreign meddling both called protesters terrorists and the only difference from my point of view is that in syria small arms were readily
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available and turkey has something to do with that as well no i disagree there syria was and is a dictatorship to democracy so there's a fundamental difference between the situation both with all the criticism that i have told the prime minister he's not a dictator one should not call him a dictator he's in the street there you leave the democracy. of. those that have been there but it's not just about how a leader is elected into office but also how he behaves himself in office and i think it was sad that democracy is not just about elections and the treatment of protesters at least in be initial stages of the protests back in syria and what we're now seeing in turkey while they're pretty similar they're pretty similar i was in syria from the very early days of that uprising and in the beginning is what it looked pretty much the same the only difference is that they did not use that much tear gas no but i would really caution you to make this comparison with assad
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i don't agree i mean mr assad was was a big act like a dictator mr. has been elected and he's acting in the wrong way no he should act differently and much more like the reaction of president but don't go in with the comparison with syria it doesn't fly well it doesn't fly for you and that's fair enough can we discuss the issue all of syria or how it is perceived within the protest crowd i understand that within the protesters in the park some of them even named those. trees contest the trees after the victims of the. a family bombing which is also in found way connected to the issue of security and syria how much is the syrian issue how prominent is the syria syrian issue is in the minds of the protestors in turkey these days i don't think it's a big issue among the protestors it is true that there are quite
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a lot of people inside turkey who are not happy with the policies of the government on syria they don't want to get a government they don't want turkey to be involved that much with the syrian opposition that's definitely true. but it's not a big issue with the protests is that there's much more with the prime minister's behavior and not so much within syria let me a quote one of the latest polls that was conducted by an anchor based agents in that poll and they found that only twenty eight percent of people in turkey now support policies in syria now the level of support was significantly greater. just two years ago what do you thing explains this very precipitous fall in the in the level of public support for what they are there on government is doing in syria i mean most turks are afraid that the violence that we're seeing the horrible violence that we've seen in syria will come to turkey as well and they're afraid
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that because the government is so involved and has taken one side in the conflict that people suffer and that's why there was the bomb that's why fifty people died and the many people are afraid that this will continue or this might continue on the other hand in general i agree with the position of the turkish government to support the syrian opposition but i understand as well the many turks are getting frustrated and afraid that the violence will come to turkey now i may sound a bit parses in here but i think this is a very tricky issue because in iraq in the beginning of the u.s. led invasion back then. much of american population supported the invasion and it was only later a couple of years they don't when the cost started mounting that you know many people started having second thoughts and they started blaming bush for that but maybe in the same manner or the on is being blamed for that as well but how fair is it in a democratic society to you know select one person i'll even prime minister as
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a scapegoat for what is essentially a policy of an entire country. no i mean the prime minister has been elected this is a legitimate government they have a certain syria policy that they get our support in broad lines. only true that at the moment the support for the policy has gone down that has to do with the bombing attacks fear of the people that's not the reason or shouldn't be a reason for government to change policies all the time you can't make policies on foreign policy or domestic policies based on opinion polls but with opinions quite volatile what was he. saying the syrian issue what do you think could force public opinions change in a more positive direction i mean. turkey has in so many refugees it's already has a major security problem on its south and border there flaw of arms again across the border between syria and turkey it is now clear that the opposition in syria is
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not as democratic as it was i guess initially presented in turkey so what are some of the. arguments that could force the turkish people to change their mind on on syria. to be honest i don't think is going to change very soon the refugees are there probably even more refugees will come to turkey are really welcomed the policies of the government in that respect treat them very good as guests but of course it is creating in the border areas frustration irritation with the local turks who happen in any country to receive. four hundred thousand or more refugees secondly. delivering over to syria. in the civil war in syria i mean russia is giving arms to assad to key is helping others to get weapons from from from other sources as well so we should not be on this there is well i don't want to i'm not the supply of arms of arms by the russian government but i think you know that
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this is in accordance with international law and legal quite contrary when this in turkey and in syria i believe the groups that turkey supported. well hardly legitimate i mean i'm sure you yourself have probably have some. concerns about their tactics and their altima goals and i don't need to mention the names like i don't know other groups as well yeah but i'm not i'm not talking i'm not talking about the nuestra he's not supporting i'm not supporting all nusra. if you're the league is purely legally stick me you know what's happening with the russian weapons it's a fake argument to say this is illegal where you provide the arms to a dictator which kills his own people but i did see what he and what is happening with a little bit if you will actually does go to charity to syria i mean nobody knows what's happened what is happening to those weapons as well i'm sorry we're talking
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about the civil war we talk about the dictator to has killed eighty thousand of his people and there is resistance on persistence there as well from ordinary syrians i'm in favor of that they get weapons to resist mr like. the west if you believe in the democratic argument and in the democratic process we just mentioned that the majority two thirds of turkish residents don't support the policy of die a government in syria and i want to quote one more paul showing that sixty six percent two thirds of turks. do not want that government to accept syrian refugees there. we won the border to be closed and i think that's a rather difficult position for turkey to be in given again all that substantial howl that it provides to the syrian rebels but the population is not really willing to bear the brunt of all of that war and i'm happy to the government is not
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listening to those voices you want what would your conclusion be that we spoke to syrians at the border and look to be killed by our sons i'm happy that the government receives them as guests in turkey if assad advances as he's been doing over the past few weeks and months and if he pushes the rebels that you support so strongly across the border into turkey and down some of the border it is then be charged kish army that will have to deal with those rebels and from what we've seen so far all. in see it is around the border you know that there was confrontations can get quite violent are you concerned about that of course of course i am and i think also the government is and is very concerned about that i mean you're right i mean if your scenario would come through the the rebels would cross the border into turkey that would create enormous problems for the turkish government. and probably will have an effect on the elections we will have in turkey next year is there any
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chance of the situation inter care radicalizing. or militarized militarizing in any way especially given the fact that there is access to weapons from syria are you concerned that if indeed those protests in taksim and around the country go on that you know sooner or later people may resort not just to violence but actually take up arms no i don't think so there might always be some small groups of four. that we've seen in the past. i think democracy has come to a level that people will prefer. peaceful means to voice their protests that is what's happening in the park i heard something very similar in syria two and a half years ago and unfortunately it didn't turn out the way many people thought
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nobody in syria believe that that country could be. turned into a war zone but before we finish with the government the turkish government the government is not killing its own citizens in the north yeah i mean even though protests. have been killed there are going to be keeping in mind what we've already discussed the police brutality. resistance new dialogue at least for now. increasing security problem on the southern border what kind of bearing to do you think that could have on turkey's european integration is it damaging its chances or the perception of those chances in the european eyes it does it does one can see the reactions in the european parliament in several european capitals nobody really likes the scenes of. police brutality. square
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and i think if this doesn't stop soon it will definitely have an impact on the negative impact. to join the european union mr legan thanks very much for your time this is all we have time for but please join us again same place same time here on worlds apart. i've.
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the highway bill some the bones of its make its the winds through one of the wildest and most beautiful regions of russia a place that's home to less than a million people and the keepers of the great frosts. join me james brown as i
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travel to the coldest inhabited place in the world. and meet some of the toughest people i'm told this time is on the planets. just make sure that you keep your eyes on the road. race to the poll of polls only on o.t. . limbo live. lives. that speech. live.
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our lives. currently. live in a. little knowledge. a little. live . let's see.
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turkish police. new waves of protesters from reaching taksim square forcefully. on the white house says it will put lethal weapons into the hands of syrian rebels over a no fly zone says the red line has been crossed and this could see some dramatic twists and turns in the course of the two year old civil war. to worse this week for washington as more details of global surveillance web board leaked onto the public with america's closest allies and partners. hope to change among western countries.


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