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tv   Worlds Apart  RT  November 14, 2019 9:30am-10:01am EST

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allies who follow to god. who sucker far is that a great deal with. precociousness or understanding came as a shock a great disappointment to everybody really not only to the kurds but to all. us our allies in the region as a whole. but honestly. that is a lack of clarity and policy and a confused. i mean they're pulled back and then went back 1 again to protect the oil. still the situation is very divided. government going we in iraqi kurdistan. receiving refugees coming across the border zone of the turkish military incursion so far we have nearly $15000.00.
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who have crossed into northern iraq now mr zebari there's a lot of talk right now about the u.s. so-called betrayal of the kurds but there merican decision to rely more heavily on the kurdish military units in eastern syria grew out directly of what some see as the american betrayal of the turks it's no secret that the obama administration actively sought to draw and correct into the syrian war only to abandon its slavery was it realistic for the kurds to expect that the americans would have their backs for longer than it suited washington. no. american themselves u.s. leaders congressional leaders diploma it's cold the this is an arbitrary no. this has created. mistrust.
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with the united states. mainly because of this. abundant greenlighting the turkish army to intervene. so far to. russia. we are encouraging some kind of a dialogue between the. syrian regime for the syrian forces to come by russia patrols also in certain parts of the of the border but the situation in south. america i think they reconsider their position somehow they went back to. did a zoo or but the situation is very very unsettled everybody is watching the upcoming visit of president order gone to see president trump to see what will come
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out of it i will definitely ask you more questions about that but before we go into there let me ask you one more question about the kurdish the syrian kurdish decision to align themselves more closely with the americans now you obviously come from a rack and formally speaking the iraqi kurds are a separate entity but i'm pretty sure that you've been following the developments across the syrian border very closely do you know even what word the syrian kurds x. picked a chanst when they aligned themselves with the panther gone back in 2015 avoid the promised anything concrete no archery nothing has been promised to them body. because government when. foreign minister love rule visited iraq on a visit to kurdistan and i met him in i b m. we asked him really to initiate some kind of dialogue between the mosque goes on that as they have been this was before that and perish
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because we believe they will have a better future we're trying to reach some accommodation of the region is also a lot of fighting much still it is acting or behaving in the old mentality of the ba'ath regime unfortunately but the recently that has been some positive movements i think some interaction. of course we look forward to this meetings that happen in suits in geneva the un is trying to do to have 1 a constitutional conference on for the kurds also to be represented that. they have legitimate rights and can say with the. new see the new constitutional 'd hopefully democratic syria mr zebari you've been talking about the lack of promises on the part of the demographic of government but my question
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was about what the americans promised that we didn't promise to the kurds back in 2015 they are they are there just to protect them they have fallen. on the ground to fight the isis. these were the promises then when they pulled out all of us knew so there could this reaction which was very angry young also international reaction and american reaction by congress by the media by the think tank so all this pressure is i think convinced that mr asian to . consider the position. some forces may involve protecting the our views not to fall into unsafe hound's that's part of the. reason i'm asking this question is because i covered the syrian war extensively from from the ground and in the 1st years of the conflict there was
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a tacit agreement between the assad government and the many kurdish communities in syria and not chad taki chad that there was. a bit of a neutrality in the works and then the kurds decided to abandon that neutrality for the sake of what we now see to be a very short sleeved alliance with the americans in hindsight do you think it was a mistake to for the courage to align themselves with the pentagon that dot time back in 2015 of the moment they were facing this existence will threat by isis by. terrorism. what happened in many parts of the could this. is where the constant through. the kurdish communities so they're looking for support or for.
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that assistance from other countries that. seized on the fortunate to step in to provide. logistical support for the. forces they formed. so really it was our current of. convenience the support to the way. in order to fire their common enemy but there could should not see them so. out of younes to be honest with you too far to be a good fighters and so on the should have a political agenda. we are using all up influence to encourage them really to be part of the political process speaking about this political agenda the kurds in iraq where the main beneficiaries of the iraqi invasion your people managed to secure very good terms for for that tommy both politically and economically as far
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as you know were they similar assumptions assurances may be hold in the case of the syrian kurds going back to 2015 did they hold that this alliance with the americans would pave the way for larger autonomy and hopefully maybe even independence. of independence is not on the table let's be very frank with you but some form of autonomy. regional council autonomy yes our experience differs with the syrian brothers are to move come a long way. in the kurdish struggle for freedom for recognition as it goes through. the foundation of the iraqi states from the twenty's onward but. honestly we secured a rise with the iraqi constitution earmarked for their own state and we have a federal entity or region where we are able to run out on affairs we have on the
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elected parliament of all and regional government we have the board the. regions the guard which is the pitch mario forces and also working very closely with back that so our experience differed from them i think they are aspiring they look forward to copy what we have achieved but the situation and see the journey graphically demographically is a little bit different somehow you just mentioned that the issue of independence is all of the table. and yet nothing is permanent in the middle east and i think the iraqi kurds joe that message home for everybody 2 years ago when the masoud barzani left government held an independence referendum don't you think that that referendum despite its non-binding nature in a way the how to bring the american pullout from syria bowed because it definitely
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made the turks far more perhaps if i'm perhaps far more persistent with the trumpet ministration in communicating its apprehensions yes we. went into different to exercise our right of self-determination 1920172 years ago. it was an overwhelming successful process 92 percent voted for that but the other. 2 the war the really the carrying out of that affirm the does not mean automatically to establish an independent kurdish state but this is a message by the kurdish popular to the war that this is the desire of this world how that could be translated it should have been worked out with iraqi government and you have it is also in crimea. which also you call for that
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the relation you see absolutely but we acted on the results of those referendums and like the kurdish people bad there is a big difference there no no i think we have those discussions with our russian friends by the times the standard should be called to see to judge. this is. the right of self-determination of having a nation but the political situation differs definitely from different parts. we do have that a thought on them but also. we would resist the not only by turkey by iran by the iraqi army but by the iraqis security forces who tried to restock as that of control but they failed because the people resist they felt they haven't done something wrong just express their views so i think we had on on
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a stronger footing with our people and also in our relations with baghdad medellin neighbors to ok well mr zebari we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments statement. your government and our government and all the other major governments of the world know what's going to happen and when it's going. but they haven't told you and they haven't told me they haven't announced. imagine something is biggest earth. is
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going to cause tidal waves or earthquakes volcanoes are going to wrapped and it's going to chill. so very for a while right. my great grandfather's quote. nobody would care about the law or prison so you'd have wallace the should have. a terrible life between now and the. join me every thursday on the alex i'm unsure and i'll be speaking to the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. the tense situation in venezuela is still all over the news the problem in venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has
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been faced only temperament from the inside venezuela things are different we're going to announce sanctions against petroleum to venezuela associate. famous will have a son of a moment to flee the tempest and that political battle to stay on the moon the people who come up to the moment the focus of the who story isn't new nixon called in henry kissinger to tell him that it would not be tolerated in latin america an alternative economic and social system could take hold and therefore the policy would be to make the economy scream so what's now making the economy of venezuela screed.
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welcome back to worlds apart because she has the body of a prominent iraqi kurdish politician and former foreign affairs minister of iraq mr zebari just before the break we were talking about the strategic process and cons of the kurdish alliance with the americans and you said that it was a marriage of convenience which is hard to deny because both sides needed each other to fight isis but what i'm struck by is the sheer gap in casualties d. as d.f. is believed to have lost 11000 of its fighters while the americans in the same period recorded 5 combat casualties while still maintaining that they are the ones who defeated i says how do you take it. well it was very painful definitely i mean after all this lawsuit has been over 11000 people that have lost their jobs and softens of people hundreds of thousands of displaced people doesn't mean it was it
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was very painful i mean to look back to recent history with this. was it was new and. found of that a bit of taste to be honest with you with the kurds that our laws for the. not reliable. have abundant and they have abandoned the. and the past all soul money ok zhang's but the united states is the. foot proposed fact of. interest to we have to be realistic really how to do with this changing position. as i said they have reconsidered the. position there are small of number but we hear from.
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the still commit to somehow they would prevent through c. a massive circus incursion or invasion. of he has been one of our men concerns are sure there is ethnic cleansing in this kurdish areas or demographic changes this is extremely rewarding and we are also awarded the exodus of people from issue of freight is from kurdish areas and see the into iraq occurred this that doesn't give you the example i checked today with an interior minister he confirmed that over 15000 refugees have crossed into iraq or kurdistan recent now are i think you don't have to agree with me but i think there is a definite tendency on the part of the united states to kind of short change the kurds and i think it was while demonstrated in the recent story with the killing of the isis leader
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a bubble card but died because the americans claimed all of the credit and yet according to the as the af all intelligence had access to all but died as well as the identification of his location of his identity were the results of the kurds own work who are you more prone to believe in this case whose achievement is that reading the world of that horrible man well if i understood you to questions yes they were hopeful archer sound that defining the location of. the head of isis is a terrorist organization and also. have been helpful tool and the kurdistan region as well as the iraqi intelligence organization have all collaborated some people believe i don't know how true. i'm not a believer in the conspirators if you could but seek some some do you have been struck between. turkey. over this issue
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i'm in but all of us there are enough believe it a conspiracy theory here but they would have full instrumental in tracking or following 'd the location of a bunker about the yes when the obama administration managed to eliminate the some of bin lot and their well there was a lot of talk about decapitating al qaeda but it simply didn't stop being a major security challenge with al baghdadi hopefully gone do you think i see it will continue being a problem for your country and for your region as a whole no isis would remain a threat the ideology of isis is the environment which led to isis to rise really is still available both here in iraq and we can sense it we can smell it and also in syria so the head of isis is the capital but the
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organization the ideology is still there just 2 days ago there was an explosion. near much more south of our b. guess on italian special forces unit which led to the injury of 5 of them this is the most recent incident and therefore they are regrouping they have sleeping cells not only hit in iraq about in syria too so we have to deal with this problem actually for a long term it's not the media. as was been loved and was decapitated but it still was oprah to so i think a certain logic applied to this terrorist organization which have a global. now one of the most pressing issues as far as isis is concerned right now is the refugee camps the security of refugee camps in syria
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some of them are being still being guarded by the kurdish units there are a lot of. women and children there are some of them are many of them in fact are iraqi citizens and not many countries want to take them back how do you think this issue should be handled. this is the comeback of the whole cum. really holds thousands of isis families and children that is why there are former members and some of the double nationality from european countries french of british german and saw. through to receive. those looking after this comes but the danger actually if this god will be removed definitely and i will go back to that old tactics most of the iraq is not all of
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that. really within the iraqi government there are discussions and debates we should. they have this 5000000 years or this people or try those who have committed crimes. by iraqi laws so this discussion is not all go away but it is an embarrassment to everybody what to do with this sons of isis or their wives who are stark and come well it's not only the embarrassment it's also a major security challenge and president erred on of turkey when mentioned a couple of times during this conversation just earlier this week sad that turkey is going to x. sure that those fighters regardless whether their home countries want them are not i think he already sent one of the former isis fighters to america to the united states that there are 7 aves who will be sent to germany and perhaps other
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countries what do you think about this initiative do you think that's a way to handle the issue really the news or compressive solution not by piece smell. some dollars. cases i think this is a problem that not a concern seat. iraq are such but all those countries who. listen to fight isis and some of the other nationals have taken part and crimes and war crimes and the thing to do this should not be used bargaining chip. to the security of our people of our countries. there has to be different solutions i think i mean to screen these people to suffer those who are wanted. by the court in iraq or in cabo or whatever
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countries the rest of the truth of the families should be rehabilitated in my view now you mentioned just a moment ago that these people are very dangerous people some of them should not be used as a bargaining chip in geopolitics and some accuse president are there on of doing exactly that because he's conditioning his relations with the european union on what turkey die as with many of those rebels or that many of those jihadi fighters as we are talking president are there on his visiting the united states do you have any concerns about what may result from that meeting because he already said that he wants to turn a new page with the trumpet ministration and develop a new call peroration based on security do you have any concerns that he's in charge of security may come with insecurity or for your brother and across the border in syria. no definitely there are concerns on this the fate of this
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people should not be used as a bargaining chips against european and other countries that has to be there is a problem of security problems and needs to be dealt with collectively. and we have codes of this people are released. they will pose a threat on a danger to our security to the security of others but. so far according to my information i mean these people are still under the protection under god. they have not used the control of this car. for them also is not our good policy at this recount all do we would release the. this is also not acceptable i think we have to to engage other countries let's to deal with this issue collectively to find some last things so do so and it's not.
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convenient solutions or symbolic solutions to this major problem and how thick now we've talked a lot about the syrians and the iraqis and there's a lot of mutual grievances between these 2 countries the syrian government has been accused of providing safe haven for the iraqi insurgency and vice versa iraq has been accused of a betting the insurgency in syria now that to be are sort of back to square one do you think these 2 governments these 2 countries could come up with a more new chile accommodating and arrangement one that would focus on the security of their own people rather than the interests of foreign players. but definitely have an iraqi government relations with the syrian regime or government. it's called for in terms of security in terms of visits by security officials there
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is that counters and so on the ground yes and the possible suffer from all this jihad al qaida coming from different countries foreign countries through see them turn and that has been a problem between iraq and syria but no i think. there is a better understanding between the 2 countries because of the threat of isis because of the civil war and see. that this may spill over to across iraq already has suffered from. major protests these days and back that in other. southern provinces and iraq. really all out of to try to contain this peacefully and to seek solutions to respond to the demands of the demonstrators because the whole region is boiling to
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be honest with you while mr zebari we have to leave it there thank you very much for sharing your perspective but that's today most of us most of our viewers can keep this conversation going in our social media pages ask me in the team we hold again same place same time one of the worlds apart. is your media a reflection of reality. in
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a world transformed. what will make you feel safe. isolation community. are you going the right way or are you being led. by. what is true what is right. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. or a maybe in the shallows. i suggest is a call the reverse hunger games then we must understand our randomly pick $10.00 to $15.00 billionaires every year and strip them of everything get it down to 0 and course i'm out there make it into the world of commerce and see if they can build it up scratch again introduce risk back into the american capital system once you
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have a certain amount of money there's no more risk you're just clipping coupons for vanity and you have no stake in the game whatsoever. a college student goes on a shooting rampage in russia's foreign east killing. 3 others before turning the gun on himself we have to leave those details also coming up in the program. supporters of bolivia has always stood president flush with polio demanding the new government leave bring the old one. on america's a.b.c. news is under pressure to explain convincingly while he had told the explosive story on convicted paedophile jeffrey epstein instead it appears the broadcaster.


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