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tv   Cross Talk  RT  November 15, 2019 10:30am-11:00am EST

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playbook was on display for anyone paying attention libya's democracy is in retreat . cross talking bolivia i'm joined by my guest problem no but at the in london he is a journalist and documentary filmmaker as well as coeditor of dot net an independent voice on latin american politics culture and media in washington we have what. she is an associate professor at the shar school of policy and government at george mason university and in santiago we crossed to francisco he is a political analyst as well as a former u.n. officer in asia and africa or across the uk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it but i will let me go to you 1st in london i peruse the american media landscape about the events that happened in bolivia the coup i will use the word but they won't a.b.c. news morales resigned simply c.b.s.
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news because of weist widespread protests the new york times said because of an infuriated pop population fox news said the people were angry over election fraud none has been shown to date and the miami herald well said that it was what was overthrown was a full blown dictatorship what's the media coverage in the u.k. i bet it's similar. very much so i mean i think the british media and this this includes from the rights to so-called progressive left have been very much on the playing the fact that it's the coup that's taken place in bolivia they talk of a power vacuum they talk of resignation but they don't really use the words and i think this is not surprising for anyone that's been looking at the media the british media's reporting on the outs in america and especially on the left and lots of america very much echoes the u.s. media which again very much cuz there seems to be
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a correlation between the degree to which a country is an official enemy of the u.s. and the degree to which they were saved hostile reporting from the u.s. and u.k. media what a little pay this is remarkably similar to what we saw in you goes in serbia you go slavia what we saw in ukraine in 2014 and now we're seeing it in bolivia this is this. color revolution playbook it's remarkably similar in each one of these cases here you have these fake n.g.o.s fake social. social groups that are supported by foreign money training and of course we have the military that all of latin america's military is trained in the united states so there's so many different avenues to go after a government and bolivia's was open to it i want to talk about maybe why i'm where i was didn't have more fire walls because they've been doing it to venezuela for a while now they've been able to push back he wasn't go ahead what a loop. absolutely i mean that the democratic car there were fights for the
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moderates the it's just like faking what really is really happening. the mexican government recognized at these. events i mean this event if a coup and that financially we could see how the elites prepare the to happen but in reality the basis i mean this was not this was not. arresting nation from the press then when the military for us says a president they mean retire i mean takes out its support if you know it doesn't leave any space and mexico was a very i mean the mexican president the mexican minister of foreign affairs with very straightforward this is a coup and that's why we are we are assigning political asylum to the bolivian president evo morales definitely this is the result of a so-called color revolution or a revolution for the market that turning into a quit at that and there's no question about that and of course the media covering
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it correctly you know francisco you talk about some of the opposition leaders here i think of the truth were known about their ideology and their own world view people would be and should be shocked but nobody's ever told about neo fascist ideas and times to these types of groups in the past i mean it's all out there if you want to know but the media what were reported princes go talk about that. well fascism is the word that exploded very much use in american politics i mean i mean the people are afraid i mean even the left is politician he's afraid of the use of the word fascist because you know it turned out to be a very aggressive definition of the political moment but basically what the usa is doing is going to be over very germany and primitive in that region is to apply to use force in the region. structurally speak it is
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country. i mean this is. the singers that i mean. it's a very very. recent example and i believe the sense i mean. was there. you know there was a kind of a. cover up sort of say very sure humane carburetor. what i'm trying to say what country has made a very strong progress in iraq. but it wasn't the case i mean racial expression. in the school. you know pablo it's go back to london i mean if you look at the stats of the time that was in power i mean any politician would be very gratified about that a legacy dealing with poverty dealing with the literacy it's really quite extraordinary some of the things that he did now my viewers know very well i am a conservative and i am not a supporter of socialism however i am
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a supporter of success and i'm a supporter of democracy and this is what people voted for and given given the logic that the last election was unfair then why don't you just let him finish his term ok and where is the evidence there was fraud there's none been presented to the public that i'm aware of go ahead in london. i think the most robust exploration of the publicly available electoral figures by the sea think tank in washington to show that that's absolutely no evidence of fraud and i think what i this made a mistake inviting the us to bolivia the oas has completely discredited the any type of little legitimacy it had on the list of about us become an open supporter of the. regime change operations in that most notably in venezuela and really this is not about whether a government does well in terms of socio economic indicators microeconomic
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indicators believe it did very well but it's not really about that it's about and the government tries to reassert at the greed of sovereignty over its economic policy over its political decision making that tries to incorporate previously marginalized sectors into the political process will come up against the u.s. government's interest and its local allies this is happened remember francisco is in chile. the birthplace of neo liberal capitalism where supposedly came through by force and we talk about fascism the people should dictatorship the greed to which they've forced for cystic policies torture huge gross human rights violations this is the model which is hedge of money it was born in chile in 1973 it's what people in chile today are trying to change and have there's a mass uprising which is being brutally repressed of course the oas and the us government don't have any qualms with going along with the right wing panetta government in bolivia they will they will come up with all manner of excuses to
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justify the use a transfer that's taking place one of the big can you just briefly tell our viewers what outside forces were involved in this illegal coup overthrowing a democratically elected government go ahead and do you see. if this very interesting because. like the one that we saw cannot take place if you don't have supporters and they're finitely the organization of american states show on. what we're talking about. some involvement of the international community led by possibly the united states. and the recognition of the no self declared president of of bolivia receiving support and the recognition that that that that the elections can take place without believe ians electing this person as a president and the problem is that. when you recognize when when the united states recognize
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a government that with not elected and does not recognize. that. you know it justifies the these this takeover of of government so there finitely here there are players that are you know very well recognized that are supporting the of. of a country that has over 40 percent of the toller resource of libya and you know it a natural resource. this that we're going to take into account you know francisco can you talk about that i mean you know 1st of all i think it's ideological and i think pablo said it really well any government that wants to be to maintain its sovereignty and be able to determine its destiny is always a target of these tactics here but there is an economic angle to this here and the bolivian government was beginning to work closely with countries like china is this a tipping point where you say this is that when they make this move because this is being planned for a long time they're doing it with venezuela they're doing it with nicaragua except for this is the timing of this a coincidence i don't know what i'm just asking you go ahead well the u.s.
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intent on. buying or even as well nicaragua cuba of course. america means. being sort of can become one i mean the paranoid regarding their rebirth. in the region pink tie for. and. there are a birth of total me or independence in that sense i mean i meet american foreign policy are you starting to get into the circle on your policy towards the region or so for america i mean this this and i'm they feel that they have to take care of the image here. in the tree. was their responsibility i mean europe to. japan to asia i'm the usa thinks atlantic and the pacific i mean in terms of the cold and gone to so. stunned their policy
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in american foreign policy to control and now they've lost all their loss to the new guy rob or the loss of the cubans well of the loss to argentina it's never sure that's going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on bolivia stay with our key. financials along with it it was all about money laundering 1st to visit this industry different. this is a good start well we have our 3 banks all set up here maybe something in your something in america something over the cayman islands or do we know all these banks are complicit in the kleptocracy we just have to deal with all that said to
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do some serious money laundering ok let's see how we did while we've got a nice luxury watch for max and for stacey beautiful jewelry and how about. bill again from that you know what money you want to hire. watch as a record. say to my harvester or dash or sticker but that's. optimism and. i think is the name of the bin. laden or ricky.
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they say country because people assume it's holy officiality make us tell us if they survive because suddenly 1. 100 neighbors who. see. him on the hook in the movie. as opposed. to what it is you just said come from. the us so we don't the last young man who's young they say if. i said i smoked the soup he choose to sing on. such and such.
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welcome back to crossfire where are all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing bolivia. ok let's go back to london with my question i will date myself unfortunately but i remember very well i was a young man very young i been and been politically active for a long time aware of politics but i remember the military dictatorships ok in south
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america and how the us would say give the people the voice bring democracy to the region it will bring prosperity eccentric cedric well now we've had democracy for for 2 generations and shocks people vote the wrong way it's amazing the evolution of the of the democratic idea for the western hemisphere because when people vote the wrong way they get punished go ahead in london absolutely i mean with the famous quote by nixon i believe will kissinger that was when the chileans voted in again the in 1970 was which we won't let the irresponsibility of the chilean people get you know we won't let that get in the way of what we want so you're also in the us i think it kissinger also said that he would make the economy how all i think is not a term you know scream scream he said you know and these are kind of recipes that the u.s. government has for an acting regime change we've seen that with the sanctions in
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venezuela but just quickly going back to the issue of lithium i mean i think again to make an interesting comparison between chile the number one current world producer in lithium where the pineta government effectively hands over lithium production to western multinationals with no value added in chile in bolivia the the that model is government was attempting to create an industry where value was added within the country. we know it said the lithium is the fuel of the of the future essential for electric cars and it was a very complicated process because of partly because of the type of scenery there is in bolivia and western companies had been unable to accept that the moms that the more i was government had put on the on coming into partnerships with with the government and the government had turned to chinese companies and then also i think also this is a very interesting part of the story which is the degree to which this new cold war between china and the u.s. how things are playing out in bolivia that might have affected the decision to sort
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of up the ante in terms of getting rid of my list by the u.s. government what a little bit you know we could use the venezuela example is that a not allowing the venezuelan government to fruits of its own exports i mean you have the u.s. government taking over venezuelan companies then they get the cash now for the government so it looks like this is also a tried and tested pattern not allowing these countries to profit from their own natural resources mazing go ahead. exactly and again desist this is this is enough for us to pair with the elites of a country there for your question who is behind this economic interests that are connected to foreign governments not what eilis was able to provide for its people to get the highest rates of growth in the hall continent and a great distribution of resources for for the people in bolivia and unfortunately
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now as in the case of venice well of venice what on colombia had a history where the elites were connected to the military and were connected to foreign powers so they can profit from the sun and resources they didn't get to the to the people when leftwing governments were governments and were more connected to the people arrived that generated a lot of unrest from the elites but now the elites are able to i mean to pair with with foreign governments with foreign companies this is going to go back to what. they history a country like libya where their resources and go to the people you know francisco what happens next to the bolivian people i mean what i was was obviously a popular figure i mean even his detractors cannot deny that ok even if they want to call him a dictator he was the people supported him here what is going to happen to these people now because up until the his leaving office for mexico there were there were
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his party there were officials in his party that were there the houses were being victims of arsonists members individuals that were tortured publicly i mean this is from some of the minute information i've gleaned from sources like the gray zone which i encourage our viewers to look at. which we highlighted in this program before what's going to happen to the people who are going to be a retribution is there's going to be some kind of lustration i mean it was morales's government to mean is it going to be completely cleaned out go ahead in santiago. well i think it's more of a quick departure or spectacle it because he will threaten to do we're going to be killed i particularly are fairly narrow and other going to be very hard i mean repression against come when it's in flood or. first war but it sure will grow. the country will get very fermented political speaking on it in the return term
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because there will be in the indians or the indigenous people you could mark the us people will get marginalized completely from the benefits i mean it's going to be a rat's. against those measures so they're going to these months will socialist policies whatever socially is where functioning there in terms of distribution of resources so i think would be not chaos but the press which is your point the press the western press when. and they believe in pretty well how did i think we have to do to go for programs at your school board press and to get it and to dig into these iceberg which is not the iceberg to the really good metaphor because believe you see a very hot country but if you're going to be a sick day or of fake you know of lies and they're going to be you know what i call 'd it. against the leftists in bolivia definitely and this is
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marian policy particularly from those policy speech trying to recall the very quickly if you want to in the region use the basic point in the region stop allowing certain states is fabulous and any regime against you say pretty much c. or germany. which is pretty bad because you know if you read steven ward's your if john mayer sharman yet or accident if you go to scientists i mean do. craig parr no american primacy is making complimentary yeah well america i mean are all able all these regime changes in machinations do cause population movements in the united states will have itself to blame for that is well ok the immigration issue is very complicated but the us there is itself no favors by meddling with its southern neighbors problem let me go back to you in line we started out the program
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talking about may simply white washing the events in bolivia and it kind of react to what francisco i did say i mean if there is a dirty war committed against the bolivian people we're not going to hear much about it from the mainstream are we salute and i think the media need to the western mainstream media have to have a long look at themselves in the mirror i mean they haven't learned the lessons of iraq when they essentially went along and if you skated the reasons for the growth you know human rights violations that followed the illegal occupation and invasion of iraq with a 1000000 with a 1000000 there if not more and they continue to systematically to store misrepresent these processes in latin america and then you know we saw it with the coup against dilma rousseff in brazil when there was a kind of reporting that made it very nebulous around corruption and that and then they often selves years down the line how did we get to a situation where we have a fascist in power so there seems to be they want to have it both ways where they
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they kind of play the game go along with it obfuscate misreport and then once you have a far right leader like trump in the u.s. also not oh in brazil they say oh how did we get to this position we don't know it was terrible you know we the liberal censor. completely against this so i think the media have a very very. big role in the unfolding of events and how they report things and i think they need to take responsibility because what they're doing now is really contributing to. and human rights abuses you're overly optimistic my friend i mean considering their behavior with all these foreign wars i mean i could spend a lot of time you know syria comes to mind you're right shameful role here what a loopy let's tell our viewers how they can find out what's really going on in bolivia i mentioned the gray zone which i encourage people to go to where else can they go to besides argy and cross talk of course but were else can they go to learn
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about these important events i will tell you something and this is because this is this gives me hope and that has to do with my country with mexico because the government of mexico has recognized that there is i mean that there with a coup in believe via and it's providing support to the government of i mean to the to the elected president of libya to have a more that is well he resigned but he is there and also mexico and the mexican media if they are you know they are covering what's happening so i see i think the thoughtful media overall i see mexican government the mexican official communiques but also the social media blogs people there are conscious of what's happening you know. i think twitter every day i check it very frequently and people are conscious so i'm hopeful many people are not happy with what is happening in
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body b. and they are expressing their different and not in the mainstream media but people are seeing that there's something that's not right happening in our hemisphere ok francisco let it go it's also well i mean the way they accepted morello's was a very honorable thing to do and they openly expressed what really happened which was actually very positive for me because so many other governments want to francisco i'm going to give you the last word in the program one minute goes to you in santiago won't just you hold. i mean going to know what the loop power will show up over the media i mean the western media liberal media has to challenge some people to need to know to go to truth we truth on the facts because they're contributing to this will be even confusion i mean western media by not revealing the reader will scoff and believe you it's contributing to another you know wave of the they don't shoot. in the region which is the
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euro which is coming pretty close you know we should be but what they what i would also maybe the lot maal give myself the last word here is that what is being diminished the most is the very idea of participation in democracy the indigenous people of bolivia for the 1st time under their ex-president former president now had that opportunity and that shouldn't be denied anyone no matter what your skin color is or your views you should fight for democracy that's all the time we have many thanks to my guests in london washington and in santiago and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember trust.
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your government and our government and all the other major governments of the world know what's going to them when it's gone. but they haven't told you and they haven't told me they haven't announced. imagine something as big as the earth. is going to cause tidal waves earthquakes volcanoes erupt and it's going to tell. so we're in for a while right. my great grandfather's quote. nobody would care about the law or prison so you know wallace though should have. a turbo lights on between now and.
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and very well now i can see you you're watching us inside. you know world of big partisan. and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the bad and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the
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truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. this hour's headlines stories of. 'd government activists in the territories justice minister in london pushing. to the ground leaving her. all to come to your church did a pretty good following a high school shooting in los angeles that occurred on the very morning the suspect turned 16. on child abuse in the u.k. linked to beliefs including witchcraft is on the rise with many saying political correctness is becoming a priority or to protecting vulnerable children.


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