tv Going Underground RT May 6, 2020 5:30am-6:00am EDT
like even as shortages of lifesaving protection for workers echoed deficiencies in the n.h.s. and questioned the viability of an end to the lockdown coming up in the show why is it called me in this countries do so much better than capitalist ones when it comes to coronavirus cancer specialist professor carol sykora called the n.h.s. the last bastion of communism tells us why it's going to be difficult to read nationalize private health care and big pharma when the lockdown finally ends or will coded to make it easier to democratize parasites of capitalism on wall street as we celebrate post pandemic evidence of a global slowdown that's the perspective of oxford university is professor danny dorling champions deceleration in his brand new multi dimensional analysis of the world we live in all the small going on with today's going undercover 1st with the u.s. and u.k. among the worst cove in $1000.00 affected countries in the world the race is on to find a vaccine u.s. president donald trump claims it could be available by the end of the year critics
accuse him of the trumpet ministration and u.k. prime minister boris johnson's government are being lent to enforce a lockdown but professor carol sykora chief medical officer of private cancer therapy provider rather than health thinks they were right to be late to the game he joins me now via skype from london thanks so much for coming on you know when it comes to public health right in back in february trump correctly said and claimed that the usa was rated number one for preparation for a pandemic britain which he didn't happen to mention was number 2 and yet britain and the united states are the worst affected in the world. they are we've got a lot to learn when this is all over now is probably not the time to do it but we go through much data to analyze not just how countries went into lockdown but also how they've come out of it today this very morning belgium has come out the printer on the streets people are in the parks they're allowed out for the 1st time other countries from britain have had very stringent locked out heavily policed in some
cases fines and even rewards for people informing on their neighbors if they break the and the whole we haven't had that here it's been pretty soft how we get out of it is the big question now that we're all waiting for the art my belief is we have to get out of it quickly and so you recommend the lockdown ending because i have to say in the countries where people are allowed to go out as you say draconian legislation although we are getting a new app apparently worlds with download here that tracks our movements yeah it's really a matter of timing and the grid ational search another was not everything happening next monday for example but rather staggering weekend goals with appropriate social distancing you know there's a lot of control with it about how far you have to be a pop to have social distancing w.h.o.
recommend one reach out here were using to me just there's no science behind all this it's just the 2 meter that was outed by a civil servant at the last moment where job just to make sure people would stay at least one picture of par now the app is very interesting and the idea is it's rather like a reverse tinder app you set of like someone you just like your void p.c. that have been recently infected how useful it will be and how widely ill be adopted you know one and you got civil liberties movement saying this is great for the fringe macian one prove the same. and at the other end you've got older people on the compound loaded up on the phone because they're just like she illiterate and i'm the admit to be one of those people and generational thing i'm afraid is the reason that you said the the government worked well in having a lockdown later and now your urging the lockdown to be stopped earlier because
you're not that confident a vaccine is going to be created we've got to remember of course vaccines are not available for viruses willy nilly there are no vaccines for hiv after billions of dollars was poured into that project. and yet a child is under control certainly in the more affluent countries of the world we can control it using a rock and drugs and so on a vaccine i think the predictions are all too soon the idea that we could be if you know as in people in july it's ridiculous it's going to be next year after christmas we can't afford to stay the way we are until then we've got to sort of gradually release the number of people exposed to the virus and get the herd immunity way before a vaccine to come and also this virus is clever it could mutate at some point which would mean the bug that if you are the the whole immunization program can be thought it through a virus just changes its code so it can no longer be seen so we've got to be
something clever and you know who knows the swedes who never had lockdown bars of restaurants still open in stockholm all the way through their mortality their incidence is no different from ours so let's look at it again and move appropriately obviously sweden's what are the rates always far far catastrophic lee worse than its neighbors in scandinavia what i'm really trying to get at here is in whose interest is it to keep saying that we will have a vaccine in july which is ruled out or even as early as in 18 months time because it is the neo liberal countries. where coronaviruses hit worst cuba vietnam 0 cases of death and china obviously if you believe the figures. much lower mortality rates than here in britain absolutely the only exception in europe is actually germany and that's probably the way they count the death in other words in britain if you have corona virus tested for you and you guys got
counted as a coronavirus death which many cases it isn't many of these people would have died at the same time anyway without the coronavirus in germany it's not just the death certificate that's used it's also a clinical judgment by the team looking after that person in hospital as to the contribution of current to their own and i think that is the reason that germany has a very low mortality but as you said at the stop britain and the us remarkably high for everything it may be that this country is going to learn mortality early in the pandemic actually overall mortality work ever stress it is their job to lock down catch up on the same total number of people guy by the end of it it could be because those politics are saying it is directly because of the version of society the britain the united states represents your a cancer expert and you've always been on the cutting edge you've been criticized
working with prince charles on alternative remedies and so on what do you make of these reports that there's something called happy hypoxia no accident saturation without any kind of distress and then ventilators putting people on ventilators is suddenly becomes lethal what do you think of all this anecdotal evidence that seems to be leading out about all spittles i've heard about it this very morning and i rush for my oxygen saturation we critics find it would be. cost to $2.00 a minute cheap and you just clip it on your finger it tells you what your saturation of oxygen. is in the blood it should be around 98 percent i'm pleased to be able to tell you mine was but i've heard about how happy hypoxia the idea you can drop to even 80 percent saturation and you feel great you don't feel bad you may feel a bit light headed it's like altitude sickness but it doesn't affect you much you don't have any symptoms you don't want to rush of the doctor or the pharmacist to
get something and that can be very deceptive especially in old people of course i should tell viewers it's gone up considerably since $2.00 at oaks a meter on e bay or one of these a shopping sites that scapulars it was applied the moment you call the n.h.s. the last bastion of communism or last bastion of socialism is it intriguing that cuba vietnam china would think with obviously with the communist party running it where you can probably get a oximeter for less than a dollar and they're certainly made in jonah they seem to be doing so much better isn't this proof that universal health care system with all the inefficiencies all the arguably they're far more efficient than private health care insurance systems they're the ones forward for the next pandemic of the coronavirus i think the way forward is health capacity that would be the no or joe our way of looking at it the health capacity we have compared to the world of the country the us has too much
but it's too high tech it's all about very expensive technology keeping striving to keep people alive at old age from cancer from heart disease for all sorts of illnesses that are very expensive to treat at the other end you've got poorer countries that have very poor quality of health care and very little capacity and yet on this they've actually done well why because it tends to be the older people and people with obesity with heart disease with lung disease that don't survive in this and of course those people don't exist in poor cunt. because the health system is not able to treat the poor house on hang on there are surely outcomes in health care systems in cuba and for long for long for decades being better than in the united states you have a far better life expectancy rate in the cuban also middle dinner in a city new york or washington d.c. or spittle absolutely cubas they are always out like you have a normal distribution and the quality of healthcare critic grae depends how much
money you spend on it up to a point and then you reach a plateau beyond which it doesn't matter how much you push you know this is what's happened in the states you're not going to get better results in some countries the system is so well organized and cuba is one of the systems where you do get the maximum gain from the money put in and puts a reasonable amount in per person in britain a lot of that is wasted in france and germany we're going to be very 2nd there on britain it being wasted given that we spend less per centage of g.d.p. on health care as a health care in the n.h.s. than european counterparts and off as much as the united states it's amazing surely that we have a national health service at all. well it's only because it rationed some of the great thing about public systems because i have to ration so you get waiting lists and believe me after this the waiting list for routine surgery is going to go
through the roof you won't be able to get anything done for probably 2 or 3 years out of this and that's the problem with russian care where you stood in this country but when we get back to normal business it's not going to be the same ever again but surely if the questions to be asked whether we should nationalize read actualize pharmaceutical companies really nationalize our entire private health care system all the health insurers that's the debate being had by quite a lot of policy makers not to further privatized elements of the national health service it would be very good. privatized the drug company with their multinational interesting debate is whether you can do something for the private sector health care providers and indeed in the next few months discussions are underway to try and mobilize the stair capacity there and you know i'm involved in the discussions from cancer point of view about how you can mobilize it to make sure bottlenecks
don't occur as we get over this crisis and more and more cancer patients are diagnosed and we have to move forward like a lot of people coming through the same time so they're really important to try to get that ok what if there's no immediate sign of the british people's or communist party running our health service or our health companies even after brics it which would theoretically be allowed to. take over nationalized companies your it to rather chief medical officer you said that testing for the whole population probably not possible we can't do it we know coronavirus is completely discriminatory isn't it i mean disproportionately it's the poor rather than the rich. is it up what do you mean by that why can't we test everyone and you're going to be testing poor people and not the richer people i think we have to test everybody and the reason for that is what you say this virus doesn't believe in
class religion or ethnicity it just goes the risk is greater in the over 70 there are gradations and so then obesity other medical conditions there are also part of the risk pattern now what we really want to the test to know in an individual what will risk really is and what precautions you can take but we don't have it but by testing we can look at how the virus is spreading in whole populations but despite what the government is saying that testing has been disproportionately for the rich not for the rest of us though i mean 190 quid i understand it we don't test people so we tested our start and we wanted to do that always in no cost to them to work out how far the viruses spread amongst all the stuff purely because if we had we wanted to know what the environment was like in terms of the virus then everyone's going to think that the right thing to do with n.h.s. staff haven't been porters and cleaners haven't been until very recently exactly
that you know we don't control that but there's no doubt now is testing stations are everywhere and as we move forward and industrial scale of testing this development ever only will get it reza carol to gorup thank you. often the right why is world population set to decline and why are we living in a world with fewer and fewer technological breakthroughs oxford university's professor danny dorling tells us reasons for optimism after we have buried our hundreds of thousands of coronavirus dead told us of all coming up about to a going underground.
welcome back well some of us have been slowing down because of coronavirus all around the world but should we celebrate the slowdown joining me now via skype from oxford is the author of slow down has a danny dorling danny thanks so much for coming on before we even get to slow down your appraisal of the boris johnson government here in britain and its response to coronavirus well it is a bit unfortunate of course is unlimited to come at any time any point of view a bit and it came as a particularly bad time they become a kind of fairly competent cabinets if a particularly nice couple the fairly competent injuries a man came in she couldn't be there she had with the team and they were the kind of beat when bullies came in he picked the cd if you like and then we markedly in the shuffle done just before the pandemic so we had 2 sets of ministers who had voted like them what they were doing this particular kind of fiscal catastrophe and
who ended up in charge who was the chancellor who will sectors they were how they knew about their mates will be noticed well we invite all of the cabinet ministers on the program i don't think they'll turn up they don't turn up on mainstream media programs half the time over they do give a daily briefings yeah you mentioned the fact that the pandemic was expected your book slow down was written before the pandemic and yet it says absolutely clearly that we will have a pandemic it's only tell me about why we were expecting a pandemic and why a pandemic. almost as part of a slowdown. globally globally now well i mean it's been easiest thing in the world to say that and then mixed. are coming they always come we're always out of that it's a very we've had quite a long period around a serious damage if you ignore a moment which is of
a slow build. the see the last pandemic of this kind was vital. so quite a long time ago well then if the 751 of their own. 80 you look at other countries of the country were to get most a business bill billions being stopped are they not in it is that the one irony is if you look at the previous pandemics as i mentioned the 118 what global g.d.p. i haven't booked for england by 14 percent in 1980 but it was the next year by 60 percent and 190. historically because we were on the excello asian in the past and then is. as big an economical bet as we might have thought to most people come out of the month that is out of order $16081.00 which 1000000 people died while mike and fountain in america swept through this country by dark remember not be able to get out and fight date when i was a baby the difference now 968 is that the world is already slowing down
economically in many many ways for this planet and militarily small and also we reacted to the pandemics so differently the ways of the act it will fall there's a will there's a quote there's a quote in the book from justin trudeau the could they be in the lead they're talking about as politicians so often do that we live in a world constantly changing constantly accelerating new ideas new things coming in all the time we have news of a new technological advance of it this is all rubbish you say in relative terms we are having decelerating for quite a long. yes varies by respect you look at in terms of innovation maybe these images thirty's in terms of population since late 1006. 100 g.d.p. growth. since the early 1950 s. was saying things are moving faster now than before but today appeared to be the slowest eyeing and you know the future will be faster he said without weapons and
he said. but of course we have to be wary that this kind of book arguably obviously without the beautiful prose the beautiful graphics could have been written maybe environment germany good never have i mean we could have string theory multi verses and teleportation just around the corner in that the danger of a book that says that the slowdown right now is unprecedented and to be welcomed. there is a danger of getting it will pass absolutely over and you know trying to look forward to the future is it's kind of silly so the book is constantly about what has happened and how the rate of change has already slowed and how our lives now more symons our children's than our lives were to our parents however we do know now we can almost certainly not get off the surface of the planet there is nowhere else to go we're not going to be colonizing mars another world is going to try to
example airconditioning made a huge difference to our lives the idea that we can change moves so that you can work in no matter where they are on the planet you can't have a number in the ration when you get the temperature we're going to temper that feels even better than nag a lot of the progress that we've had of one of changes and we find it hard to appreciate that the change is much more and that as a more profound level from that example of air conditioning yes people watching this program before the pandemic would have felt perhaps disoriented perhaps disoriented by the austerity that you've articulated before in previous works of yours you believe that the global disoriented ness of people may be a function of this slowdown. because our parents grandparents and their parents were used to incredible speed and change my brown haired little born before the
tractor was invented much bigger change the tween the childhood and the on danger of my. now when you become used to change things not changing becomes dissipating. we become used to economic growth we become used to getting more and more and when i can only grow slaves now we say for instance in terms of japan's been to the last decade we don't actually say japan is the end of a place it's laid down early and now we're not telling people to default. and their future and death are not pay and any provision when they get old but you think that this slowdown could unveil the contract of say student debt of people worried about not having money when they retire from their jobs all these are basically contracts that slow down may uncover necessary that was slowly already uncovering a kind of idea is all based on ever increasing you know our pensions invest in stocks and shares we find the stock market will get bigger and bigger though when i
used to be known as future salaries will be so high that you know at least it off by now houses the enormous amount of monies and is asking my mortgage because some people in the future. these are all the skins that will slowly and madly fall down the bents it is trivially easy now to believe now to say anything pensions games and stocks and shares wasn't a good idea and not in the world does it telling young people to borrow money to go to university is a very bad idea and of course most of us doesn't do that we are always obsessed by the news of what's happening this week is we don't. obviously the key workers are very obvious during this global pandemic their shop workers cleaners porters and medical workers and emergency services you know very kind to the financial services industry do you think the slowdown will expose what you seem to
suggest are basically parasitic destructive forces on on life on earth yes the stones are not the was open up making a lot of yes yes not just last year a teenage girl from sweden was going around the planet launching man a planet trapped in huge following of peoples and this has to stop i grew up in the winter and wish to head teachers a 2nd b. schools and a local doctor well paid more than bankers. very long ago and the idea that the financial industry of london is somehow here forever and 3000 people more than a 1000000 pounds a year. that wasn't really anywhere it was a matalin before current events love them is going down the hierarchy of global financial centers are leading to a break that hardly an inevitability and as for people on television screens around the world in governments in countries all around the world talking about debt the
slowdown exposes there the whole concept of debt is a kind of a myth. well there since that is another person's investments and which is. the growth in the debate that i share in the book that is based on a more tedious things look at the degraded inmates that that has been slang for some time so there's that in the us is there wisely it's not my city as although mortgage debt is still rising it's not my business if we ask my says not going up in the way they went out in the seventy's or only antes and even that on things like buying cars was slowing down but that growth was already fully and went all in the debt growth was devotion and welcome to a few people who invest in. the things that used to be a might happen we would turning into a commodity there is no need for housing to be as expensive as it is nowhere else
in europe or the system quite as bad as the system in u.k. and hence we have the highest house prices of any large cities and the constant. ok weather has finally got to get to population that inspired lots of the bricks of debate here ironically image a great a fun book so many of these green environmentalist continually tell us oh it's the population explosion we have to be aware of this book shows it's those horrible tragedies like what happened in china when a $100000000.00 estimated die during the opium wars it talks about innovation ideas like wikipedia correlating that to fewer and fewer innovations but population fundamentally you're saying that the celebration of population growth is amongst us now it's a lie oh yes an old fart believe the only person to be saying it but it was very
bad i just under that. but. population growth began at the fellow 8 after $960.00 and it is a political sample of how we hold on to the fears the path that we still worry about something which you could bash and you know worried about in my dms it's unsettles that made no sense we're going about now you know the fascinating thing at the moment is that young children born today will be the 1st human beings in it is it is the she's coming trend to continue to watch population decline with out war famine pestilence will play naturally because people choose not to have more children any ideas that there are just 5 things that will not slow me this book i think that should celebrate that is the temperature of the planet the amount of carbon that we released in consumption in other air types who are daily and the mountain international university graduates and the irony is only 5 things that we're celebrating and not selling there if anyone thinking that africa is the
source of a population explosion as ever if it happens are detailed in the book about i.m.f. world bank reduction of women's education on climate change and what you just said because obviously to david attenborough would beg to differ. do you think they think now the slow down will enable humanity be able to work on the biggest threat which of course is climate change we will start to work only to the way the analogy of climate change is nuclear disarmament. for my own life neuters of was the biggest most important thing that they most likely to kill has climate change or similar teenagers and no it really matters matters above all else older people often don't because it isn't the word to go out with when they're young. you have kind of armageddon of one kind or another that's been marked off the millage years in the past now more scientific and little sense if you don't worry about these
things and then we'll each human beings are very very good. president you drawling thank you and that's it for the show will be back on saturday 75 years since stalin declared victory over the nazis after around 26000000 soviet citizens paid for your freedom with that lives in jail that he would touch via social media by following up on you tube twitter facebook instagram and sorry about. that and there was. a part of.
the state headlines from our 2 international as russia registers more records daily infections families grieving for loved ones lost in the early days of the great. want to go home when will you pick me up and those were his last words i raced until the very last moment davis lonely and tell me there had been a mistake my parents did a lot and it's showing he could have done much more. british newspaper reveals that a national health service procurement official has a solid line in selling fifi privately despite shortages and state hospitals. listing the lockdown could almost double the number of cobra deaths in the united states of health food.