tv Going Underground RT July 8, 2020 5:30am-6:00am EDT
that's included major bridges a business people from excess specie swear jarden you know from standard charter in the those some politics and try to criticize them that's wrong because they believe that stability and prosperity in hong kong is in their interests you can't do business you can't live a normal life without a peaceful environment look at what happened last year camp people people do not even dare to walk in the streets and there's this so-called black terror so people cry for chaos to end as quickly as possible about hot that the the birth of the national security act. chinese ambassador the u.k. new jamming there joining me now via skype from beijing is one of experimenting to
deng xiaoping's former translators and director of the china national association of international studies victor gal thanks so much for coming back on do you not believe your phone former colonial masters britain have the right to criticize human rights in china i think britain has the right to do whatever it wants by a need to really consider what's the impact on the fundamental interest of the british people and if what he comments on constitutes an interference in channels domestic affairs then definitely there will be dire consequences of these are arguably empty threats and you're echoing there what the ambassador said that there might be consequences even when nato destroyed the chinese embassy in yugoslavia china said there would be consequences china never does anything except some harsh words briefly and then are probably retire what what is china's position going to be as sanctions are applied as individual sanctions may be applied by the british
foreign office and of course as chinese companies are being discriminated against 1st of all if you do not have justice for one day doesn't mean it does not work it will not come back to haunt you look at what's happening in the united states and in the united kingdom for example for the black lives matter which really is taking many skeletons out of the closets in the u.k. and in the united states and you will know that injustice whenever inflict it may be exposed and it may have consequences many many years or decades or couple of centuries later so whatever the british government will do now which will be conceived as injustice to china will have consequences i that immediately or in the medium or longer term fundamentally in the chinese people want to. the friends with the british people and china wants to be
a friend of the united kingdom while there's a big talk here of a cold war we all remember the opium war but are you not just becoming as bad as washington how can you have an article 38 of this new acting this mortal apply to offenses under this more committed against the special administrative region from outside the region by a person who is not a permanent resident of the region this is like julian assange and his extradition warrant to have a junior court when he's an australian citizen well if you had read the national security law on calm very closely you will know that 1st of all it's not ritual active that's very important he only applies to the current or the future activities of this is a very important benchmark secondly it doesn't mean that hong kong as they are. police or national security officers can roll around the world and bring all our accused of these offenses to justice in hong kong i think the key is if anyone
. passes by hong kong then they will be up branded and they may be brought to justice i'm not sure that's accurate if they're a citizen of switzerland or wherever i mean there's a professor of constitutional law gruen parity has been arrested by chinese security forces for criticizing ji jinping he writes for the national endowment for democracy is that the kind of thing we should expect pure criticism itself is neutral and it should not be our problem but if you for example convey messages aimed at overthrowing the communist party of china then that's a very very different situation you're not oh you're not arrested in this country as far as i understand it for printing something that desires the overthrow of the british government in fact britain is a bizarre cleena plays a refugees karl marx one of the. inspirations of the chinese revolution preached
the overthrow of the british government he wasn't imprisoned why is it in china you can't preach the overthrow of the communist party well 1st of all different countries have different levels of sensitivities and in different jurisdictions there are trouble was about what you can do or what you cannot do and it applies to the united states of the united kingdom there are short about a hot button things in the united kingdom you cannot talk about or you know very sure that that there are these offenses you cannot even think about it for example and in china as a whole you cannot talk about subversion of china you cannot talk about the splitting of hong kong away into independent territory you cannot talk about toppling the communist party of china so let's be honest each country has a short list off means that you cannot talk about is china torturing people as the un alleges julian assange is being tortured here for revealing important pieces of information that educate the citizenship of china now i'm not. aware of these
direct information and for the. 3rd party reports i hope you would really do a lot of homework to verify their truth of this i think if we'd really apply honest a decent a rule or julian assange should be freed and you should probably even give him award for outstanding journalistic reporting which actually exposes some of the very dark secrets in the world there have been some debunking of the claims about torture camps concentration camps of muslims the being associations between the evidence and us government sources let alone far right homophobic sources what do you make about possible u.k. censorship age. sea off calm cracked down on c.g. t.n.
of course the british censorship agency and edges that the chinese television company has been airing forced confessions 1st of all if you talk about let's talk about you know for sure john borders with afghanistan and the war led by the united states in afghanistan has been raging for 20 years and the spill over of terrorism extremism into she is for everyone with decency of the mind to see just imagine if the united kingdom borders with afghanistan what a terrible situation the british people will face in terms of extremism and terrorism if california borders with afghanistan you look for what kind of bloodshed there will be in afghanistan or in california this is the situation we are faced with john charism and extremism coupled with separatism are constituting a very very deadly dulls each of situation there therefore i think china as
a sovereign country has absolute the power to bring the situation back to stability to prevent innocent people from being killed to prevent terrorism from gaining the upper hand and i think this is the crux of the matter in sheen john but just finally and briefly if china really cared about human rights would it not be 10 talking more about britain's role in yemen or venezuela or wherever and these consequences that the ambassador here talked about this week u.k. power network says owned by chinese companies could presumably turn off the electricity in southeast england eastern england london the london underground heathrow airport the docklands light railway canary wharf where are the consequences or is this bluff as even dissidents in the west are saying from the people's republic of china doesn't bluff whenever china means a. it it can deliver secondly i think china is
a country of decency so whatever it commits it will and therefore don't be frightened about normal business deals between china and the united kingdom these deals are for the benefit of the british people as well as for the chinese people there are a lot of consequences you look at what's happening between china and australia the chinese government is giving warning for chinese tourists to go to australia why because there have been about 300 cases of anti chinese or anti asian incidents in australia over the past several months the chinese government of course has to a roadies all people to avoid australia as a major destination of tourism from for the chinese tourists i hope this will not happen to china u.k. relations i hope the united kingdom can be a very good a destination for thousands of thousands of chinese students chinese tourists shuns
business people going to prison or possibly through britain to other destinations if you talk about consequences if china and the united kingdom view each other as an enemy then we are talking about gaia consequences both for china and the united kingdom both of us will be losers let's make a britain and china up both winners and also i think and that's a little said one thing the the united kingdom is called the great britain don't to belittle this great you need to have your own independence you need to avoid a following another superpower as a running dog that's the least that the british people and great britain deserve i would say show your own dignity of being great britain thank you. thank you for having me after the break we go through the mind of a protest to before they make headlines all around the world and can we expect more civil disobedience this summer heightened by coronavirus we ask you good government
no this. point ch your thirst for action. welcome back in paul one we had about unrest in the streets of hong kong when it comes to unrest in the usa president trump's response has been to speak at the arguably stolen indigenous land around amount of in south dakota threatening 10 year mandatory jail sentences for defacing a statue but is this something different in the uprisings around the world that followed the murder of george floyd in minnesota and in fact is the militarized response from police a distraction from the principles of policing by consent and what does the 819 peterloo massacre in man just have to do with it joining me now via skype from is the site is one of the ukase government's scientific advisory group on emergency. subgroup advisors behavioral psychologist professor clifford stuart thank you so much coverage for coming on i should say before we get on do george floyd we did
hear from beijing a moment ago i did raise the end i think he did about how there has been foreign influences perceived by the communist party in beijing over the protests how does that change the psychological behavioral dynamic of protests in all go who are we just about to publish or a study of the evolution of the protests in hong kong in 2019 and i would refute from the outset any idea that these protests been caused by foreign interference is dynamics on the ground particularly relationship to poor government decision making and poor poor policing the primary factors the radicalize those protests and develop them from from large go peaceful perceptions into far more violent confrontations nothing to do with the national endowment for democracy pouring money in claims that propaganda about we good muslims from homophobic right wing is and us backed n.g.o.s producing propaganda well i think that the fact that the
government has introduced this new security legislation has elevated the situation to one of international relevance and we certainly need to see governments now taking action in relationship to the very intrusive legislation that's been introduced and we shouldn't be surprised that china seeks to demolish any kind of inquiry into what's going on by attributing blown 2 to 2 other governments and yet most of the world sides with china it's the minority of governments nato governments of course that are attacking china this is not something about imperial power rather than actual human rights or the protests well i think that as we move forward coming out of the process are covered in going to feature crosses around around climate change i think that what we all need. to face up to the reality that the real bargaining chip in this is going to be economic relations so we see what relation. has in relation to those deliberations around the economy i think
things coming out of china say there is not going to be any relation given the words coming out of a foreign office do you think the corona virus has had an influence on the global protests that are occurring around the world in the past few months yeah i think very much so i think what we're looking at these situations of increasing inequality in awareness of of the differential impacts of of the virus and indeed of the lockdown measures that making the issue much much more relevant and decided in people's minds and i think that helps us to understand why it spread so globally and to address it we need to start to address the issue of inequality the fact that the un special rapporteur available alston talked about gruesome inequality by design he alleged by the british government you really think the coronavirus some of our understanding of food banks and what 40000000
in poverty here in britain but i think we've been naive to ignore the central a t of the very obvious data that comes out already showing your far more likely to die twice as likely to to die from covered if you if you live in the lower echelons of the economic structure than the higher echelons you're far more likely to contract and die from the virus if you will from a black or ethnic minority in the u.k. and you do globally and as we move through this crisis we are going to see that amplified as unemployment starts to heat it will hit to those in precarious employment far more severely than those who more stable salary positions so dealing with that reality is going to leave. very very challenging for us as a society particularly if we want to retain any semblance of a liberal democracy in a world that he's being towards polarize ocean and as we see in certain certain
quarters totalitarianism but so coronavirus enables us to understand something like perceived police bias better i mean there's been a recent case the metropolitan police here deny all wrongdoing is where they understand it but a commonwealth gold medalist bianca williams alleging that they were stopped in the past few days because of their color racial profiling couric calling on the head of the mit scotland yard to resign do you think this is given more traction because we're in a pandemic yeah absolutely i think one of the things that is most important about the pandemic from a policing perspective is the way in which it changes our everyday understanding of the legitimacy of policing most let's bear in mind we in most countries have experienced quite draconian forms of lock down i think recently in melbourne where
we're looking at a tower block being. locked down and the changing context has profound changes in how the public views the legitimacy of what the police does and their ability to navigate that rapidly changing social context of a very short period of time is incredibly precarious such that these minor incidents of the stop and search that might otherwise go unnoticed suddenly become world news and in that context we see it by it's about the legitimacy of the policing and police decision making has profound implications for how sections of the community perceive their relation to the police and what we know from the science of rioting is that perceptions of police illegitimacy. and inequality are really fundamental to the conditions through which rights can develop and so you're expecting civil disobedience on our streets the some of what we're already seeing
aren't we we're seeing certainly london several instances over the last few weekends where the police are trying to break up so-called block parties the question is when if and where will these minor incidents proliferate out into much wider urban disorder of the kind of we saw for example in england in 2011 in the summer following the shooting of mark duggan we have able to watch our interview with morgan's a on our you tube channel but then this is we have big cars dimension here because you're talking about block parties working class people of color and of course some . communities white communities and yet they're relatively well heeled they all crowd in soho in the west end of london can afford to buy drinks on a day in a band that no police at all but go that's that that's certainly a really really powerful example of the way in which perceptions of policing
illegitimacy can start to develop that where we get large gatherings of predominantly white people on a sunny day in a beach in bournemouth but we get gatherings of people from from black and working class communities we see very very different and contrasting pools of policing much more like say fair in regard to the former and much more oppressive in regard to the latter but the other thing that needs to be borne in mind here are shifting power relations but one of the things about crowds is that they are places in which normally disempowered people can become powerful to turn the relations of power and reverse them in relation to the police on an everyday basis there disempowered in a subject going to as we see in the stop and search episode with the with the car but when knows people are gathered to. gather in large crowds and couldn't work together in those crowds they can dispute that stop and search they can do things about stop and search i know you spend your life working on this as you know well
the mainstream media would characterize this group dynamic as mindless violence in fact bars johnson even said taking a knee was a gesture that he didn't believe in secure stomach later and apologized for it said black lives matter is just a moment this is just mindless violence by an underclass is how it's portrayed in elite media yeah very very commonly heard and i would argue ideologically i mean the difficulty i have is that i'm a scientist and i have to work with ideas that actually make sense of what it is that we're trying to explain to don't have the liberty to draw on outdated and rather useless representations of why this violence happens now political actors often do don't really have to care about the facts they don't really have to care about the validity of the in our system put forward these forms of analysis as a form of politics and we've got a really strong and powerful track record in working directly with the police to implement winds of policing crowds that don't amplify violence and all we are
asking is that really that kind of understanding and that kind of approach is given the credibility it deserves over and above these ideological and politicized representations of the violence that might absolutely no sense at all because they simply don't explain how where why these things happen now as a dispassionate academic you can't alas tell us what happens at the government advisory groups it's all secret and confidential but if you were advising the government. unrest this summer would you say that government should fall of the arab spring example of 2011 to destroy any empowerment by group dynamics on the streets of major cities in europe well i certainly wouldn't describe myself. as dispassionate about what i do i'm very passionate about academic ideas i'm very passionate about the understanding its relevance for how we
need to respond to current events and of course when we think about the arab spring 20111 of the things that we have to acknowledge is that we're only different countries in different locations across a whole period of time and let's take the example of syria and focus on cracking down well that was that worked well didn't it turn into civil war so what we have to recognize is that indeed this moment solve social and political crisis there are ways of deescalating that try says by focusing on the underlying causes through which people mobilize in opposition to the government and that mobilisation is often built around perceptions of the illegitimacy of governments and the solutions of that is to try to repair the underlying grievances rather than amplify them through cressy of miller tries policing reaction that shifts us away from any sense that that society is democratic and represents that the will to
a more dictatorial cressy form of policing and state power join other arab leaders would say president as has been on this program said it was external forces again that was responsible for what happened in syria i just finally i mean we talked on this program in the past about how the creation of the police force was to protect private property of the elites why is there a relevance of the peterloo massacre as we perhaps witness violence on the streets of capitals in western europe this summer well it was interesting that you refer back to peter lou and peter lou it was a was a protest a massacre of protestors who were chartists seeking to gain universal suffrage in the tail end of the 19th century and in that massacre then created a secure. for the development of what we now understand to be the police and it's built around an idea introduced by the former i'm 16 in.
peel policing old the public for the public by the public focus on these things we have to draw it back to some of the fundamentals of what it actually means to be a democracy itself reza good start thank you pleasure that's it for the show 48 hours after the death of legendary communist composer ennio morricone famous for his collaboration with without a resolution says you leona doggedly he will internationally live forever for his work on want to quote her as guerrilla warfare classic the battle algiers widely seen as one of the most important revolutionary films of all time will be back on saturday it will then wash your hands join the underground you tube south at instagram and facebook. to rest in charging glenn maxwell the jeffrey epstein saga states an eternal what about the trying and the specific indictments what kind of defense can be expected
is a deal in the cards will justice be served. so we were the sinners in terms of searches going in with memphis in the new mall. nothing new. there mother he just came up with a ticket in your hear that oh. antarctica is a very international community you. mean you through the traffic and you're going to play. with this is if it is this. new orleans. there's a position at the least in the business so there you can see a comparison is everything refuse to believe that we are going to do with.
the. fun i have that would affect the bank but i decided that the safety of the flight. would make it can tell you that. 54 jets and more than 1300 military personnel are headed to heal some air force base in alaska where is that to say come on i'll show you what's the reason for any type of enhanced u.s. military presence in this area russia. what is it suddenly about the south china sea that makes it so that it 11 s. map who really owns what kind of says no it belongs to us india says no we claim that that belongs to us both of these countries have nuclear weapons capabilities
do research shows delays take counter treatment in the u.k. due to the corona virus could cause an extra 6000 deaths we speak to a man who only discovered he had a conflict when he finally got a much to lay down. to it was nothing. new words were ordered for you. no words destroyed. i'm just devastated. and the world races to find a coronavirus vaccine i knew says they were billed surprising amounts of people who wouldn't be willing to take it we had to the streets to find out what the concerns . i'd want to read it would be information 1st to be deceptive it worked i wouldn't risk it will try.