the the, me, the me ah, welcome 12, the part of the great power politics is not different from the jostling place in a high school hierarchy. the guys playing games of him against one another. well, trying to marshal bothers, apply the pacific journey, you have a combustible mix of national interest by the ever present political rivalry. no wonder the great reading that the next big war will break out in asia is not a credible threat. well, it's not that i'm now joined by for a while just for me or foreign secretary. you actually see it's a great pleasure, great honor for me to talk to you. thank you very much for finding the time. my

pleasure. thank you very much. been right, and now you gave me several days more than 4 days of your life to be diplomatic service. diplomacy, especially in your region, has never been short on rivalry, intrigues and all sorts of complicated relationships. when you look back at your long career, do you think current diplomat, those who are in service right now, do they have it easier or more difficult? when i think this is, jason has become much more complex in the full in nature. things are become very difficult because all the idols, china, and the inability of not only the neighboring countries of china, but also europe and the united states to come to terms with it. and we have only spoke about the 2 cities as being policy for established.

all the reasons for a conflict. what happened is that the united states has now in recent years, under even under bite and become very vocal about the central training and, and designating it as a slow adversity along with russia. and therefore. busy i think how this will play out is going to effect agreed the security an issue because there's no reason the security. ready architecture cannot hear about india threats perception because at the time when i entered my profession, this, the tension in india and pakistan were considered to be the chief rivalry of the continent. but you just mentioned that your disagreements with china, and i wonder if they have already starting started to overpaid the, the tensions with packets. and i mean, who is india's she rival or she's concerned at this point of time?

is it packaged or is it china already? was it had already been shy except that in the side to manage a relationship with china in a different way because it hasn't, you know, history or autism and they all the focus on trying to apply. so the world against india, or putting in blame on india with regard to a new capability and thinking that china gave to the messiah and nuclear capability. and china has, after the occupation of tibet become for the 1st time in history. the 1st time in history neighbor and we had the $962.00 conflict in which india was sort of a deal on the border. and since then into the economic some years,

india has title manage the relationship with china. digging into account the fact that it's a neva, it's a big follow and ominous enmity with it would not be helpful and try and find some common ground rich china and do until jaya in recent years started becoming much more aggressive, especially from 2005 we've got to get it audio pains on china, and then we've had recent direct conflict in the east on the dock, which is continuing. and you know, china is a nuclear country focused on the nuclear country board and you bought nuclear, please claim india and dentistry. they are in league with each other. now you have the startup august on economic got it off. so we have chasing a very big challenge from china. so we'll go answer your question. china is our major energy. now in this concerns, we're trying to chime with those of the united states and its allies,

you know, better than i do that it gave rise to i knew so far in form of grouping, the so called cooperation apart from india in the united states. and japan, australia, i'm in your writing, you've been pretty straight forward and saying that, you know, foremost statements besides these group the quad is intended to counter is the growing china thread. i wonder what our current and possible means of countering we primarily talking about medic signaling some coordination me you know, psychological pressure or do you think may soon or later come down to some joint kinetic action? no, no, no, that i don't think it's likely and i don't think any in any country wants. it'll harm everybody. it is that china is expanding his navy in a totally unprecedented for the 1st time in history,

a country has expanded its navy so rapidly. why is it doing it as clearly said that they want to build a blue water? they want to protect s. s abroad, building porch all over the place. they're maritime c, food chickens, indian national security because of the positioning themselves in baker countries in, in ocean. now they have these 2, got it all going as important and i should let you to let me make this point which is developing, talk on why from united to me on my to be able to bring all the other from sion. janet to back us on into the indian into the a, b and c. and then they have a general initiative in which will, which is a dominate english. yes. so it will be the 1st time in history that a continental in asia will also see to dominate whether they succeeded the different battle when the little indian ocean. and that's why i think

we have to devise some days and means to those that missions and the very end and the place to start coming is the south china sea, the western pacific. because of the expand in the indian ocean and create a much larger for the security of india. and now this jigsaw puzzle won't be complete without russia. and i'm sure you know that the russians are instinctively very mistrustful of any initiatives, especially security initiatives involving the united states or minister law on a recent visit to an interest to the region alluded to was as asian made. so do you think that's an appropriate comparison and do you think because the members would law like to be seen or perceived that we as members of some sort of

a military align? well, to begin with this, the chinese will 1st started calling a nation back in 2007 when the 1st actual exercise took place, in fact, also joint so. so it's not as if foreign minister was focused on an issue natal number to japan, australia and united states. ready are already allies, so they wanted to have a natal natal holiday dad. but simply because if india is going to have military exercises with the other country, the sort of a, the, the for, for into kind of a military allies. number 3, and there was no joint military. this is not in our dna. i think it is an exercise to send signals to china that it must garbage is ambitions must play by letter will,

must not violate international law must not make sovereignty claims which are not supported by last and explain what is it intention in terms of developing navy with so many across got years for the purpose. it's a gemini domination. i'm a bit surprised that the foreign minister law probably speaks team the experienced and i might implemented for diplomatic skills as to why despite to us, despite explanations, still expresses some informations about how the quotes and the indoor. but he understands what india is concerned, divisions, but also understanding what our russian concerns in reservations are having search here as an ambassador for russia, china is a natural counter pounds. again, the us a call just that is for india, the united states is a natural counterbalance again, china and i want to ask you, was there sort of triangulation on, you know,

what i've always inviting in a big guy to manage biological relationship is that is our destiny in this region. i mean, is it an average of all the powers in this part of the world will always have to call on others to come in and how them manage wanted one another. well, you know, if you look at what is happening on down, india is a very keen to manage this relationship within the ation context. that is why we still participate despite all our differences with china and russia. and yet we are off the bricks. and of course we are back of a seal, which is a clear signal to do that. despite our problem with china wheatley, it's a lot of these forums which will initiate essentially by russia. and there are from a bilateral relish finished with russia. it is another lateral forum in which we

can develop better understanding with russia and assassinations and have a platform also for discussing these issues, it china. now united states is a central issue. i mean, they don't have any foothold. they are from a very, very i never understood and want to go out of a gun in a shuttle. so the only place that can be in need is a seas because you use any navy which can go anywhere in the world. and we have common interest with them in order to protect the feelings of communication from chinese encroachments indian the notion best of asheville for bringing the united states in the maritime domain to be able to counter china's ambitions, but on land. no, we are not interested in steaming off with the united states or anybody else. not let me ask you about the humanitarian aspect,

all such relationship because when he found his south face to face with an avalanche of corbet, 19 china seemed to be far more forthcoming in offering his help and bring assistance to get down the united states. i know that washington has tried to change the course and resigned his offer as more empathic. but i wonder if this initial unbounded meant of india by the united states was disheartening and also revealing. i mean, i understand what you're saying that, you know, you treat this military corporation as you want to hear. i mean, you can have a different position on another rounds of corporation, but you know, military aspect is an important one and it's about trust. it's about coming to each other, help it in the time of raise me then. i wonder if india is expecting was expecting

that from the united states because it's ready to cooperate for that on such a sensitive issue as the fans is the one where the china and the problem with the one lighters india then health is not as if we didn't make that gesture, so i suppose for diplomatic reason, china fees that visual rhetoric brocade that just so it's not as if it is one side . secondly, just now, well knows that the relationship has gone southwards, very steep. because off there aggression in east, on the dock where the violation of all our border demons beginning from 993. it's a new game that john is playing. devil. this kind of manager and gesture is neither here nor there. in towns off, there's real issues, relationships, so i just say yes, you're right. initially, not on the jump,

but the biden. norma restrictions on the defense act to prevent off vaccines and radians to manufacture vaccines to india. anybody else for that matter? and it was a bit of a problem, but since then they have relaxed their position. nato assistance has come into the next scene. in turns off ingredients. we are negotiating with them, be in touch with them. i think there will be somebody like us in this community has gone forward in a very big way. and of course, not just a supported south african, the engine proposal in the w g o to just spend agents temporarily fight over crisis listing. so let's see how it goes, but i think united states have been selfish to begin by making amends about we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just

a few moments state you the me or the what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy plantation, let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic development. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical time time to sit down and talk the the me

or i welcome back to all the way to kind of all ship all indian former secretary and mr. st. about before they break, we started talking about home with 19 experienced i wonder if it's very difficult. ordeal is going to have any implications for in foreign policy and india overall assessment of priorities. because all of our countries spending billions, if not trillions on or defying against one another. while many, many thousands of people are dying from the lack of necessary woodman. do you think the call that 9 in experience that you have had will affect its priorities and it's assessment all threads in any way? well, you know, want to assume that this is going to be a very long,

long limited to india, the world. and i always so much independent and so much link to each other, that india i'll be able to control this than i have spent as on the other hand unfortunately, there is a lot of negative propaganda on this against india because it will be in this part of the houses that india has escaped the worst crisis. and therefore when the 2nd wave stuck struck, there is a lot of that i things in the rest on media and this and that. but if you look at the hard to guess, hard for it goes, we are going to see people who look proportionately at either the number of inspections or the guess it is way, way, way smaller than any other any other countries. this factor because india, the, the, the appetite figures are not mentioned at all. even now the 2nd

wave has begun to receive at one moment be 400000 infections every day. just come down to about 2 161-227-0000. and the number to odessa also gone down. so if you look at the book after saying only one percent will be in the us population hadn't been as effective if so it's not a lot of places, but because of the recent oxygen shorted is and the obviously the given to that and those are the how doing scenes only the projected as the major major thing, which in some senses in terms of human life last was the case. but if you look at the overall picture, it is, it is by no means you just add it as being in france or germany or united states or, or italy or any of these countries. now i want to add position to base that our bilateral aspect of india is relation. you are the best person

to talk about that because in addition to serving as a secretary, you served as ambassador to a host of countries including russia. reach has always prize its relationship with india, but i have a feeling that this relationship has always been falling short of potential. are we destined to be sympathetic to one another, but sort of descendant too preoccupied by other challenges, to give this relationship a fair chance? no, i think we have to accept certain as realities if fortunately or unfortunately me out and after contiguous to each other. if we were, then you would fuel our economy and economy like daughter country can because you got such as horses and the kind of that nice forest. but we are not contiguous number one. number 2 in terms of defense still remains of it. yes. although

proportionately the share of russian exposed to india has fallen, but still far ahead of us. far ahead. number number 2, we are the only country building nuclear power plants in india. we have invested a lot in that are shown as like $1415000000000.00 invested by $13000000000.00 in energy potential. we have our relationship. it demands very, very good. but we'd like to address that when brown with the movie was invited to the last we had to say and be meant to participate in the development of the east, including its oil and gas resources. we have sets about this on paper, at least the auction. i got it all which actually makes in if you bought as a bitch artist abandoned the concept off and i think you're all

a show in, in very material terms. the relationship with shots means very important for us and it's not my view for a long time. that russia is absolutely critical in terms of getting balanced in policy. and despite this set of us, frank shows if you go to the s for under yeah, going we are going to know what he can do to us who are different spots. now you just alluded to that there is a configure a difference in how rushman engine diplomat for your part of the world. the russians call it the asia pacific, while the indians insist on the in the pacific. isn't just the linguist picking or is it truly reflective on how different maybe 2 hours conceptualize this asian when you know, i think the russian side to the bush, she had that when 1st the concert felicia pacific was developed. it was not

included because it stopped at me on my india, there's never part of asia, even the when the europe set up this awesome india was excluded. we told them how can explore the 2nd biggest country in asia in an asian european dial in earlier on when they set up the impacts. so the asia pacific india was excluded so enormous if it actually is recognition that in there you cannot be an issue without india because he's using a china centric banner that it was a mistake is being nobody or china pacific either. right, for the simple reason that if you are going to talk about it and then you must include india. now you want to call it in though is that that's a very unreal leak formulation. but you can call it just like, but in the pacific. i mean,

there should be condition that india and pacific are linked because the security of india and pacific and linked on it applies to also your models, technology, interest, indian, and his region. so this semantic defenses to my mind are not very helpful because it continues to call in the city. the implication is that they've gone to consider, i'm sure it is not the case in the but at least the appearance is that you do not come to the us. india, as well as speaking about the americans are old, you're happy, you know, give the indian this verbal recognition because in official document that they department 1000 and need to refer to this region as the in the pacific. how susceptible how sensitive are they? indians do these kind of verbal flattery from them, eric and no,

it's not love us actually, frankly, because the, the security of the indian ocean is absolutely linked to the security of the rest and pacific dialogue. talking about the difference is that ex country may, i would like on the western pacific about, you know, if the chinese, some means are going to come in the, in the notion and doc at the colombo bought how they will look up. they're going to come from the rest of the pacific, and therefore it is our job political interest, which i'm sure there's a huge experience. so you know, politics interest to see that giant us naval ambitions. and they don't create a problem for us in the indian ocean because they clearly made this known to the maritime su project. therefore, it is quite normal that we think the security of the indian ocean to that of the western pacific. but beyond that, i can't see why anybody should have any questions

about the concept all in the, in the pacific go, i agree that from the american point of view, they want to emphasize the china offset. from our point of view, we want to talk about the security of the indian ocean, including the western indian ocean, where we have joined up with france and india and foster become say, very states a good cooperative players with regard to the security of the western indian just about if i may please. one more question about interest relationship with, with the american the united states seems to put a premium on its relations, but india, they are willing to go. they asked her mom for you make certain accessions for you that they would not make well other than yes, your reasons or role that compared to the differences you have with russia, those with the united states much less confine. what do you mean by that? you know, the thing is that relationship with america has gone dimensions,

which i relationship with no other country has. apart from the fact that we have a big data. and some of the leaders are actually heading the big social media giants in the united states. $200000.00 indian students in the united states, i went by that to stated on a $45000000000.00 offense street, also growing up in the sector. we are closely intertwined. and in fact, we have a balance of trade with, with last economy like the united states. so there's a lot going in on addition, she buck in the united states as being the biggest strategic all american, differently in the united states has done the biggest strategic damage to india or decades, sanctioning us preventing corporation in, in various sectors,

denying us technology getting in general and gets me back in august on even now on on they're just leaving or gone on. i think it will be the other bar and they're giving focused on a major role in august and knowing that collateral damage will be to india about doing it because they're pursuing their own interest. so we are very clear about what our relations with united states. fortunately with abiding some difference in that regard on this on. if you don't have any cash offer geopolitical interest, you will also shine. i'm a real issue because we understand what a couple issues are and i stanley, dot com to understand for the life of me why united states has both shots and try not to get a job. politics wouldn't demand that this did reach out to russia to try and break this down as well and give some openings. so that sounds, but that's another story. well, mississippi all you have too much experience for my brain power, you know,

ponder questions like that. i, i don't think there are many people in the american administration or on the same level. that's why they're not asking those questions, but anyways, we have to leave it there. i really appreciate your, with them today. thank you very much for finding the time. and thank you very much . like all the best. i'm thank you for watching hope to hear again next week on walter part. ah. in the me ah, join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guess in the

world, the politics sport. business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. me our military mission against them will conclude on august 31st. one sounds good to us, all the quote unquote, a young girl who will bundle you proof so much you got to be subtle company, so the cut, the cut over the whatever the month. okay. that i'm going to get a quote to ship from very good. this was the right weapon against the right and the local no, no bought it from but it was on the o through z o o z the, the signing of the us to all about agreement. and i laid the groundwork for the road ahead toward

a lasting peace in afghanistan. and i know that i'm a dunaway and does i have the the, the, the, the do want to know weekly on our t international has a ton of surrounds called black hole with extra forces as foreign countries, race against time to evacuate that troops on citizens to meet the end of the month deadline, the, the extra security comes off to the airport was rocks by a suicide bomb attack on thursday, which claimed at least 170 lives, including 13 us.