tv Sophie Co. Visionaries RT February 11, 2022 3:30pm-4:01pm EST
just for sure, the only way this can end is by a return to mail wards and female wards. and if there is a problem with my mail trans women in my awards, then the solution is not to put them in shame. i wrote the solution is for them to find another way of dealing with this we have seen for so if you go with visionaries next there were back in the office with the latest news here. noisy, international join us again that ah, join me every thursday on the alex simon, sure. i'll be speaking to get us on the world politics, sport. business. i'm sure business. i'll see you then. mm. ah.
bring you the very latest every out the day. this is all he's national moment. everyone here with walking to so think or visionaries me. so if you share it, not an organ transplant. can save a life, but at least 20 people die. ha, wedding for a new heart or liver. can science put an end to this long waiting list? i talked to dr. re, are meeting that, how would she stem cell biologists and professor
o genetics at stanford university. dr. erica woochie stem cell biology professor of genetics at stanford university. great. you're happy with us today. thank you so much. thank you for having me. i. so i want to start from the following up. the camera is a monster as creature from greek mythology. i personally associate with something or a task evil. yet in modern microbiology genetics, it's used for something that can potentially be used to save human lives. isn't a choice of words somewhat misleading in this regard? can there be like a better? do you agree? yes, i do agree. yeah. many people, you know, just imagine when i say a greek mythology, you know, consisting of, you know, based upon finding most lions heads, no sheep body and snake tail. so that
gives us many people very about impression was kyra, but actually is very useful. just so, i mean, biology is just a mix up to a different service of 3 different genetic or is it just a mix? so 1st of 2 different identity. different says so canary research is needed in order to basically grow human organs inside animals for transplants. but an animal, beta chamber a pick already has a heart. so how do you make good have a human one instead? yeah, if we just mix sure, most stem cells and early embryo, we just made a hold of issues. so, so that mix of both to my sense, but they won't, i need to do is,
is to use a host animal that has been genetically modified so that this has about cannot fall off of one of those, all those genesis disabled. and so when they go up, and then i make a comment on the schuman i p s. him of some sort of the live says, can make a hot postal service to not. so, although it's basically a mixture, you know, 2 different cell types of origins. but in hot should be home and totally made up of like human a sensor the lab says, so the, you know, the body is mixture of human stairs, but heart is only from the human stem cells. that is the trick that i introduced.
right? so basically when jack the embryo with cells for a human patient and then the heart, crows, and is transplanted back into the patients body. the what if and it's likely the patient has really bad, hard tonight, like hard is, is for 10 generations back. is this patient stuck with a bad genetics, or can that be fixed while growing the new heart? ideally, you know, with a technology and quarter crisper. now it is very easy to genetically correct the letter to effect of the special has. so after collecting the senate to dinner at the level of foss themselves, then we can go and put it back to the patient as a patient to be, you know, norma thought because, you know, the genetic data has been fixed by genetic engineering o time to research we may be able to simply transfer this newly in our created data
hot to the patient because of, you know, some diseases. it takes time to develop a phenotype the symptoms. so it might help to delay the process of the disease depending on this piece. and patience condition, you know, the figure alternatives. is it possible theoretically, at least to grow several oregon's at the same time in the same animal? yes, that's posted. we have recently found a way to do that and not just one single organ. but basically i, we may be able to make up similar, you know, an internal for one and that is also a possible approach. why do we need host animals to cro? oregon's can't way do it without having to use embryos. just in a lab, i mean,
scientists are able to grow, meet in the lab. why not human, oregon? ah, you know, those of many different types such as are the sounds broad, nervous that you know, so many other components are required. and also it has a 3 d dimension. ah, so it's not quite got to make those organs in a test tube well, in this room. so i came up with an idea of using animals body about developing environment as a sort of followed by reactor. instead of, you know, mission hold us in a to see so that, that is how we thought it, ah, the spot project. you know, one of the reasons for this line of research is a long line of those waiting for available transference. so if we learn to grow
hearts, people want in theory, have to wait for a heart transplant if they need one. but you know, what you're working on isn't an instant solution since it takes at least a year before an animal can grow to a full size and to be used as a donor. i mean, this means a person waiting for a transplant one probably last to this moment in the same all the same rate. how could this time frame be reduced to more? right. so again, a ways to, you know, answer this question. so yeah, it will probably take about a year to generate a human, a functional transplant and say in pigs in livestock times, ah, however, you know, a, for example, hot or kidneys, people can survive. patients can survive over here,
easy with artificial organs. so this is one approach. oh so we may be able to prepare. oh so oh guess if we you know pick her up. oh as oh, different ha, type for you know, wider a matching. we may be able to wait, sort of, you know, the order for the patients are different data types. this is one this, i think this is part of it. he thought the alternative is we may be able to generate a gas duct, how much 2 different people know universal matching, 2 different types of people working on this because you go so are you both
on sales? so with this approach, we may be able to prepare off the self organs, who are any people with different data types? yes, so fire growing human organs and picks isn't really working. the anatomy is, might similar. but the species are too far apart, biologically for this to work. you call it the zito genic barrier, a barrier that prevents cells from one spaces from going in other. how do you go around that mariel? theoretically, of course, we do not have an answer to that. we're working on it. this is charlotte. a phonetic me. i think the major reason for this 0 barrier is c l, usually this us genetic, this us between human and animals because ah, what,
oh ah, we, we a boat from the same cubby ancestor. you know, it's been many, many years since we 1st so some of the molecules important for the development of, say, embryo, ah, they could differ. you know the receptor and who one can be active may not have good affinity to bind together because both no animal and ass diverse, no, you don't genetically. so one potential, of course, is we have to probably schumer nice some of the molecules necessary for the development of a t p embryos to match with a human. ah, cytokines, hormones? well, some of the things saw that liz, the a course that we're taking we're trying to know humanise some more to
choose the past. he's a question from a skeptic. i mean, do you think these xeno genetic barrier might be there for? i don't know. good evolutionary reason. for instance, we don't mess with cross breeding cameras species. no, i don't know if this any bios can reason for that just by test. ah, we don't we have they both based on the maybe outside involvement. ah, so maybe be difficult. ah, just like our lives of us, they can grow very fast because they have been to preston. so all you know, the men of the that easy. but i think this would be a way to do that. that is our touch doctor neck. our children take a short break right now when we're back. we'll continue talking to dr. iran meet soon back. how would she stem cell biologists and professor of genetics at stanford
university. stay with us. ah ah, and i make no borders line to nationalities. and you guys as a merge, we don't have authority, we don't to look back seen the whole world leads to take action to be ready. people are judge, you know, common crisis with we can do better, we should be doing better. every one is contributing each in their own way,
but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is great. the response has been met. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together with oh, is your media a reflection of reality? in a world transformed what will make you feel safe? isolation for community. are you going the right way? or are you being led somewhere? direct. what is true? what is great?
ah the and we're back what doctor re roommates are like, how would she stem cell biologist, professor of genetics at stanford university doctor and a couch. him, you know, if years back another team of scientists, they announced that they're making human monkey cameras. as a human monkey came eric, going to have more chances of successfully growing an organ? yes, i think so, but we also have some preliminary data. as i said, i think this 0 barrier is very much all based on the yeah. is that a distance genetic distance between the 2 species? and obviously non human premise, they're much closer in terms of 5 or you study distance. so i'm,
i'm pretty sure that, you know, if we try to generate human organs in non human climates, monkeys, it would work much better than between a human and paste. but it has some problems, you know, madison to the ethical issues. ah, you know, national climate want to center go slower and it may take more than a year, maybe for 5 years to get, you know, certain size get to the certain size. and also i don't worry about, i do notice, you know, the fiction of southern dog biopsy. so you know, yes that monkeys have because they're so close, they may indeed affect us. so the, some, i think you know, that many issues with so monkey is but it's not like using
a picks or sheep they, they're very much more difficult to do some developmental biology today to make kind of suck it. at least we know that the size of an animal is crucial. but what about add their genetic factors? for instance, pick scro age and die sooner than humans is or is that a hard grounding to pick well where are faster than a human heart? for instance? now that's another interesting point. now, so we have a very interesting data using our modem, starting from the studies that is when we generate rock pancreas in mass, roughly a different different species that brought this 10 times bigger than mass. but when we generated a question mass to 5 and chris mouse size,
so somehow the owner of the size of the whole and is determined by the environment, not by the sense to making a so we also tried ariba experiment. we tried to write mouse pancreas in russ, and then we followed huge rug size hub mouse pancreas. so again, you know, these experiments suggest that you know, the size of the whole room is determined not by the 1st, but the in one. so if it is too big matter difficult, but you know, if the science is mr. not too big was transplanted. i think the, you said the cold, i was determined by the environment. so, you know, that's what we said. you know, i don't know if he read it,
but there is this manslow popular old russian novel, the heart of a dog where a doctor transplants human order in oregon into a dog which dang, rosen to human, but keeps a lot of dogs habits like chasing cats and such, it sounds silly, but in the same like sy, fy way will and monkey grown organ inside me make me behave more like a monkey. even a little bit maybe. wow. well, if you transfer, say monkey sub brain to you 1st. and then you may get some behavior monkeys, a monkey monkey monkey have pursued that. something that we did not know, but i do not think, you know, trans translation of, you know, monkey, i know
a few heart generated a monkeys will, you know, change you know. ok. ok. ok, you know, thinking by that so you know, i need to say it's to your own heart. it's not monkey hot. we're transplanting with there just to make it within monkey. but not that i think that makes a difference. what organ theoretically, could be crowned this way. liver har, pancreatic well can a brain he worked out using this method. yeah, we have a study. we're not trying to create that piece of human. just the between mom that we have, you know, have made out. in this case, rob brain, mouse, and mouse play, rock, they do us. this is the old as we tested. the
basic principle i've tried to say ok. i think any, you know, trans, trans, accountable organs to shoes says we can use, you know, those generated in pix, when i'm us, it has to be transplanted. branch has not, has to get transplanted. i know it took you 10 years to get the approval to do whatever you doing the current research. how long before this technology can be fully implemented? our patients were like a century. ok. ah, my good are your predictions maybe 5 to 10 years then the deposit oh no experimental basis. hopefully within 5 years, if you want to bring it to the clinic, we have to do a lot of safety, you know, saturdays,
many other studies on necessarily before actually bringing this to the clinic. so i would say, hopefully within 10 years, we're able to use this whole concern. i took it out in the grid. you know, the health benefits, they appear to be enormous. however, really, the whole thing is it's a little gory. to create an animal that can grow heart 1st, then you put a human heart in that animal and then you cut the heart out. i mean, poor animal rights, how do you deal with these kinds of concerns? i, i'd say ethical concerns. i know your research is government approved and is monitored by ethics commissions and all of that. but personally, do you have reservations about this? i mean i'm, this is the whole methodology thing. yeah, of course, you know, i like i saw, i feel sorry for them. but in, on the other hand, i see patients,
you know, dying to waiting for donna organs. and if you think we're certainly fine, maybe billions of piece for us to our food. and so what we need probably is pigs in the auto fall clouds to help those places and, and stay sell them paid. so you know, this, i know this is not a perfect solution for the treatment with patients, but no, we need to help those. so patients and since we are eating many, many are peaks. i think this. yeah, i mean, i agree because we'd, we'd baker and we'd piggly it. but what does the fact that we farm pigs justify the use of their embryos like that? i think it's justified. you know, yeah,
another concern is that the human cells in an animal can stray beyond the targeted organs into the animals brain and then create some form of consciousness. is this even possible? i don't at this moment, all of this a contribution of human services very small. so some likely, but as a scientist, i can't say it would never happen. so ah, what i'm, what we're trying to do is we have already generated i p assess human like yourselves from outside yourself. and that to not differentiate into brain cells who are dumb says for this low test of having those r i p a satellite human sensor be like human cells in the brain. ok, animals. so dentist, i think a very clear to listen to this ethical concern. you know the team that announced
their experiments on monkey human came marriage a little while back. they said that they did the research in china to avoid legal complications. wondering, are government regulations around the world making kind of research difficult in general? so difficult question because you know, i could not do this kind of research in japan years ago. i moved to stifle more is the same thing. i moved to the country. well, this kind of research is awesome. so i, i think, you know, we need a international guideline for this type of research who are many other researchers that probably require some sort of restrictions. so in the we have international society of stem cell research and they recently revised the ethical guidelines to do this credit for research. so i think the whole
tree, you know, for the funding agencies or just a like a major sciences. so, you know, many journals there. so they should require the, you know, proof of the approval by the, you know, i'll be a committee of that scientist did that experiments. otherwise they shouldn't accept. i grant proposal for public 18 of the papers. this could be a good thing for sent to, you know, oh, so some, rob, problematic is security risk and i collection, thank you very much for this talk. it was informative. well, wish you all the best of luck with your research. let's see where it can bring us
and hopefully can really help humans suffer less not stain lines for human organs and find some sort of medical guidelines we're animals don't suffer that much, but anyways, it's been too interesting talking to you. thanks a lot for your time. thank you so much for letting me take care. bye bye bye. ah. with funding? well, they directly re sell advertise as a content to us and decide who sees what content like when and how much of it. facebook claims that these algorithms are there to learn about our specific
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