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tv   Going Underground  RT  February 14, 2022 2:30am-3:01am EST

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ah, i'm african retents and you're watching going underground on valentine's day, coming up with the show says he is on from the signing of the master treaty that established the european union is the economic superpower losing its muscle after arguably, succumbing to u. s. influence over russia, ukraine, and made fresh disputes of the post breaks in northern ireland protocol, we ask you nato into locator in the form of special assistance. the u. s. president barack obama, and it's 70 years since the then princess elizabeth was told she was queen amidst the brutal ma my rebellion and kenya. but his kenya really free from british colonialism. 59 years of independence and still over 50 percent of children in kenya and living in poverty. we investigate all the small coming up in today's going underground. but 1st that he has this month, the maastricht treaty was signed by 12 nations establishing the european union and paving the way for the single currency the your own that he has on. it's deemed an economic superpower, while arguably dividing many on its future existence. in recent days though,
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there were been fresh disputes of a v post brexton with an island protocol with the you calling for a suspension. meanwhile, standing firm on its position of a russian tensions with non e u. member ukraine will. joining me now from chevy chase in maryland is professor charles cope john senior fellow and director of european studies at the council of foreign relations. thank you so much all for coming back on 30 years. of course, people may remember your boss, president obama, when you a national security council, european affairs, a direct era trying to get britain to remain in the european union. what do you think that he is a success? you know, if we had this conversation 5 years ago and i would, i would have said, europe looks pretty shaky and match because you know, breaks it was on the horizon in france, you had been national rally and germany, the alternatives for, for germany. and then you had the pandemic and one could have said, whoa,
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the populists are gonna are going to prevail. yes, breaks it has happened. it's been pretty ugly. but the e. u, i think, is, is in remarkably good shape. i'm pretty beat about development on the continent in part because the center has hell. we just had a normal election in germany, italy, it wasn't pretty. but martha rella, the president drago the prime minister, have agreed to stay put. i think it's probably likely that my crime is going to be re elected. so the center is holding. you've had a mutual ization of debt that nobody expect them to try to get your economies back up on their feet. immigration is under control again, not pretty bribing era to want to keep syrians in turkey, bribing libyans to keep africans in libya, but you know, it's for now working. so and then the final thing is,
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is the relationship with the united states is back in pretty good shape. europeans are happy that biden is in office. i think everybody is asking for how long is he going to lose? the house in november is a republican, maybe even trump going to be re elected, but at least for now we're seeing a level of us european solidarity. that's pretty impressive. okay, well i, i should just say that obviously the german government certainly schultz is readers as a medical denies. he bribed any one and cause you k provenance to force johnson completely rejects that breakfast, has been ever, i think, any kind of a mess. but i mean, i suppose, i should say that the off to used phrase that the, you prevented a war that's not true. you just love your, of course, was a war when the european union was around. well, i think you have to give your a pretty high marks for preserving peace in large swath of europe. the
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border between france and germany wide open the border between germany and poland open. it's worked, integration has largely achieved its objectives. has europe emerged as a geopolitical heavy way now? is mac crohn trying to address that issue? yes. is he going to succeed? probably not any time soon. but the bottom line here is that you have in europe an integrated market. pretty strong political unity. it is one of the most successful political revolutions if you will, of the 20th century. and of course, there are these tensions now, as regards the northern and protocol, what do you think? the view is in the by the administration, joe biden, as we sometimes mentioned on this program, there were room. is that the ira a rebel songs sung at his house in new jersey?
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in the old days, you think he's going to definitely take the you side over the unilateral decision, apparently in the last few days by the british government to break the northern and protocol. well, you know, having worked in the white house during the obama error, i was, it was pretty clear that obama, bye, and others were not very keen on breaks it. and you'll remember that president obama or the u. k. and tried to say, hey, don't do this, this is not a good idea. not sure whether that helped or hurt, but the body, this is really you who is bricks. if that's what you're saying, there is no, i'm not going to own that one. but we can take that discussion offline the, you know, i think that at things are trending in a, in a reasonably good direction on the, on the northern iowa. you, you know, we saw a cabinet reshuffle not that long ago, which i think was in part about johnson's desire to find some way forward on,
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on northern ireland biden wants that to happen. he does not want to see some kind of a bus stop that, that affects the relationship between the republic and northern ireland. so stay tuned. we're not across the finish line yet, but i have a sense that the british government wants to put this behind it and met some kind of compromise deal with the e. u is forthcoming. well, of course, for us, johnson is in battle because of police investigation, but any fears you might have had about britain looking to the far east, perhaps that need to china. ukraine seems to show that the nato alliance. certainly the lines between leading and members, britain in the united states never been stronger over ukraine. well, you know, it's, i worried in the aftermath of breakfast it, that britain would turn in were,
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in part because i think breaks it was the result of a somewhat isolationist turn within the british electorate. but that has not happened. in fact, in some ways, johnson has attempted to compensate for britain's departure from you by trying to punch above its weight elsewhere. all the focus deal the submarine, deal with australia, britain flexing its muscles in ukraine, sending a warship to the black sea, now standing shoulder to shoulder in trying to push back against putin's threats to ukraine. so i would say that right now, the u. s. u k. relationship despite the differences over breakfast it is, is in pretty good shape and that london is turning out to be the partner that washington had hoped for. is that going to continue? we'll have to see, but so far so good. i mean, watching the progress of the,
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by to ministrations a raising of the issue of ukraine. what have you, what have you made of it? oversee the by to ministration came to russian invasion was imminent, then dropped the word imminent aud pieces of intelligence. actually some of it repeated from, from britain, the british intelligence, claiming that a person actually banned from russia was being prepared to take power in give very odd bits of intelligence being reported by all the newspapers. how do you think the by demonstrations handling all of us? i think the bible folks have broadly gotten it right now. nobody knows. probably including proven himself whether russia is going to invade ukraine. but they've got enough force on the border, including ships in the black sea that one has to take very seriously the prospect of a huge russian invasion that would perhaps include besieging key s, sacking the government and installed out of that. and i any intention of doing that?
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well, what would be the point? well, you know, this is, this is where i, i have a hard time figuring out exactly what, what the point is in the sense that you know, a potent is a trouble maker pollutant, has invaded or tried to interfere in most of his, his neighboring countries from georgia to ukraine, nego or no car bach, moldova. he went into syria, but these actions have generally been low cost, low risk, a low cost, low risk operation in ukraine doesn't really get him much. ok, so let's say he wants to annex done boss, or he wants to connect don boss to crimea. he still loses the rest of ukraine. so if his goal here is to try to pull the country back into rushes here, influence he really does have to invade the country. that's a huge tor to be near. i'm not sure he's got the stomach for that so that he'd be
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nearer weston nato nations. i mean, i have to say on, on those the different things, syria, i'm sure the russian government would immediately say that there was british, in american backing for the rebels on the ground to go to carry back fusion, intervene to solve a, as a by john and armenia, and as, as regards don, bess and elegance can so and you know that even western powers of ad through accept the un security council resolution on the minsk agreements, 2202. they've accepted it to the misc agreements is fine for russia, which isn't even mentioned in the agreement that you don't see that. and you're talking about isolation earlier. and i suppose the trump elements here and certainly your cable channels, like fox news, saying this is about biden's presidency in taxes, worried about mid terms. and it was born johnson here being investigated by the
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police. well, you know, in terms of, of what rush has been up to in its neighborhood. i think the facts speak for themselves and russians ought to look in the mirror and ask themselves, why is it that everyone who lives near us wants to join nato? and i think it's for 2 reasons. russia keeps interfering, sending troops and its neighbors, and they want some protection number to everything else being equal. i think people want to live in a democracy, not in a repressive autocracy. they don't want to worry that if they he got, they're going to get poisoned or thrown in jail. that's why i think so many countries have been interested in joining nato. where is, is driving right now. i think he is engaging in dog and diplomacy with the europeans. i mean, almost every day somebody is flying to either kiev or moscow. the channels of communication are open. there is a real serious effort to get diplomacy to avoid
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a war, including by looking at the mentor agreements that you just mentioned. but there's also a realistic assessment that the diplomacy might fail. and that's why biden is taking 2 additional steps. one is putting more troops in eastern europe to tell the russians, hey, you don't like ne, that, well, it's going to get worse. you're going to have a lot more capability on the eastern flank than you did before. and number 2, putting up in the window very significant sanctions, including against the inner circle, which should get him to ask, is it really worth it? do i really want to suffer the economic punishment that will come with an invasion of ukraine. professor up general, stop you there. more from the former special assistant of u. s. president barack obama, after this break plus did then princess elizabeth know about the mamma, rebellion with $90000.00 may have been killed. mango, tortured by british imperialist, as she was told 70 years ago,
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that she was to become queen all the small coming up and bought 2 of going underground. ah, to what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy foundation, let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical time time to sit down and talk well, and i make no sense, you know, borders and blind to nationalities and you as emerge. we don't have a therapy. we don't to look back. see,
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the whole world leads to take action that would be ready. people are judgment, common crisis with we can do better, we should be doing better. everyone is contributing each in their own way. but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is great, the response has been met. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together with ah, welcome back. i'm still here with professor charles scott, john senior fellow and director of european studies at the council of foreign relations and form a special assistant to you as president barack obama. vladimir putin was elected democratically. and of course yes, you know,
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the russians are very quick to talk about human rights and about guantanamo bay, still being opened. you mentioned sanctions. do you believe this sort of economic warfare is good travel bands as it freezes? a mastercard visa blacklist though, i think that was around your time. it was around 500 entities between 200-2021. the us treasury says 933 percent increase would impact us sanctions have on russia. well, you know, biden has, has explicitly stated that no us combat troops are going to ukraine, that the united states and they know partners are not going to go to war with russia over ukraine. so the question then is, what should be the response? if russia goes and invade it's neighbor, and the main response is sanctions, that's how you create a disincentive. both deter, to try to get them to set,
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to decide not to go in and to put pressure on russia. if it does go in these are, these are major sanctions, you know, after the 2014 events, the annexation of crimea interference and don bos sanctions were imposed, but they really didn't go deep into the russian. i mean, i know you dropped. i mean, i don't know the actions are, would be like that, but they are much more far reaching and 2014 people can watch are if you're john bolton trumps. the national security adviser about sanctions and cuba let alone all the other countries. i don't know how many countries the u. s. know, sanctions in the relevance here, of course is to this foreign affairs magazine piece. you wrote that one us priority was to help manage china's rise of the global stage. the usa should, for me to strategy to peel russia away from china. as we know that the sanctions this economic wolf has just strengthened the relationship between most couldn't be jasmine. yes, it has in some ways one negative knock on effect of sanctions
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is pushing russia closer to china. that happened after 2014, where we saw russia compensate for its economic isolation by trading more with russia, with china moving closer to china. if russia invades ukraine, van, i, assuming that the sanctions will push china and russia closer, closer together. that is something that seems to me to be unavoidable, and in my mind, does not outweigh the importance of reacting with a serious set of sanctions against a native. what's the point, what does it, what do they do? what's the point to the sanction? they would create? number one, a deterrent? putin has to ask, are russians going to be better off if we occupy ukraine and they'll be body bags
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coming home? you can be sure of that, and if major russian banks and companies are cut off from the west, we hear that there will be a ban on certain kinds of technologies that will make it very hard for russians to buy cell phones and other other basic electronic items, so the idea here is to create dis, incentives for ukraine to, to suffer a rush. where is it, where is it, where is this your sleep? if, where is this whole russia does use force against it? where is this, what is it worked in iran, in venezuela or in syria? where is this sanction policy ever ever worked? it's, it's worked in in iran. right? i mean, we, that we got it. we got an agreement. it looks like we may get a re start of the j c p o way. why is iran going to the negotiating table in part because they want to get out from under sanctions. ok, well i mean,
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a lot of people in are on arguably a saying why, why bother given of course, the reneging of the un security council resolution by the trump administration. in any case, do you think her, do you think that if, if russia is definitely not going to invade ukraine, the sanctions are going to be in place that russia and china and the global south, because we've seen chinese massive investment all across the global south means that the european union, an u. s. power is basically on the decline. no. well, you know, i think that if we do get a d escalation, if we do avoid a major war and this would probably be the biggest war in europe since 1945, it's conceivable that you could see russia's relationship with the, with the united states, move in a better direction,
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maybe we can get the main sc agreement implemented. maybe the dispute over ukraine can turn into a broader discussion that would include conventional arms control that would include nuclear arms control. so it's right now that doesn't seem to me very likely, but it's, it's conceivable. i also think, as i wrote in the piece that you mentioned that russia is over the longer term uncomfortable in the relationship with china because it is the junior partner. and over time, i think russia will be looking for a western option because chinese power is going to make the russians uncomfortable . yes, you're right to say that china is a rising power. it will soon have the world's largest economy. but it's important to keep in mind, but if you add up the collective weight of the united states and it's democratic partners in dramatically outweighs china or a combination of russia and china,
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it's important to keep that in mind. and that's one of the reasons that biden has been working so hard to promote solidarity, not just with europeans, but also with south korea, japan, taiwan, australia, and democracies in east asia. professor charles scott, john, thank you. my pleasure. ah, in recent days the u. k. monarch queen elizabeth the 2nd celebrated hood platinum, jubilee mocking 70 years or the british throne. when she found out her father george the 6th had died. the queen was on a 4 day trip to kenya, the east african nation was declared an independent state in 90. 63 after the spark of the mo, mo uprising. joining me now from the capital kenyon, i rebuke senior lecture from day star university, a member of gender africa, dr. wendy and joy. thank you so much, wendy, for coming back on. yeah, britain. her big celebrations for the platinum jubilee. she was told she was queen at treetops. i understand that her shut down hotel now surprised no big mention
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that her what perhaps a 160000 were being held in u. k. concentration camps at the same time. yeah, yeah, during their mom, mom, i insurrection against their colonial government. it's kind of ironical that it would elaborating, actually mentioning at the circumstances in which she became queen. and in fact, the president's office was also celebrating that event. so it's kind of ironical. although of course, as we noted that the people that took over a drama kenyata or his son of course is now president distance himself big time from ma ma just remind us because i mean what 90000 may have been killed named or, or tortured. yeah. yeah. i'm not sure about the numbers, but it was a huge number of millions in and sensation and so far about tie a t as say it was not tab treaty period at the end. those great brutal. and as the
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canyon human rights commission of the fact, you don't know what symptomatic of the education that's happened since post independence in your country. read writing a lot about what you call a colonial education in kenya. regardless of how we are educated here in britain about colonial and imperialist atrocities. yeah, we got, i didn't education system that's more about telling us the benefits of mpeg colonialism and very little about the resistance of many, many canals against colonialism right from the 1895. when they set foot t and b, say that that kenya would be long period british battery company. so there have been rebellions there have been armed struggles. the one that catches the imagination, of course, is them are low because of the extent. but they're,
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all these rebellions are hardly talked about in the curriculum. and it's really strange that even at this level at the present, you have to go over what colonialism is with my students because they don't know, they don't know. many of them just heat it. don't even know why it was here in the 1st place. and that's a combination of the education system that we have wise. otherwise i should say one of the princess elizabeth for them. princess elizabeth porters, sean murray. he was interviewed. he, he joined a rebellion after being the porter for the green tree jobs. why, why is the educational system like that? because it was set up to prep the colonial admin. so in fact, one of the ways in which the british government, one of the tactics against mount a rebellion, was to increase the number of schools, especially in central province where the larger mo, mo,
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was based. so the point was to get people who it would not be loyal to, would not give their loyalty to their mom. and that would support the british government. so that legacy has continued because now the people who got education while those who are not active and then when you came in and you get to the next generation to think more in terms of maintaining the colonial system that had been left behind. and then as having a different education system that was inclusive and that reflected our study, but as regards imperialism and it's a connection to racism. you've actually talked about class here. and even where the queen was staying, the princess or queen was staying working class whites. boas. of course, the church was concentration camps in south africa against the white boys. there
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was a class system around the new key area which, you know, in the western imagination is karen blix and his wife, mischief, happy valley. those are the those are the stories of kenya so far is yeah. what can i was cast to be colonized by the elite of the british colonial. so other people who went to the brand of africa, why he's not there is people or just civil servants who are working on behalf of the state. but the people who came to kenya and settled in a new key area that's, you know, you and all of those. so they came with that all day. then you know the values of daddy stock trustee. that's what they brought here. you have a problem for can, can you had highest number of it on high school bureaucrats? so it was not just a was also that you ation system. many of it on your office has had been to
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the public schools and to breach. so i really, mr. boss johnson went to that school. i'm sure he'd say that. yeah, good, good back. ok. i mean, i should ask, i mean, barbados obviously is left the commonwealth. i don't know what your views about. can you leaving the commonwealth? would it be possible for princess elizabeth, on the 5th of february $9052.00 not to know about the mass extermination of canyon's going on at the time she was staying there, even if she knew it was inconvenient for her to know, and that's another legacy we have in that we have remained from britain, which is out of the special and secrecy and spin that what is more important is that you have the system in fact, and any stories that they inconvenient you just keep them under the rad, or you don't to mention them i thought so even if she knew it was inconvenient for
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empire, so it was, it was easy and they found not to know. and that's, that's a legacy which we have remain even in kenya. right now. a lot of the problems that we have are swept under the rug and we talk elephant in the room, but we never mentioned the elephant. what is that? the commonwealth imperialism of the i, m f. all, all of them, all of them. you know, for example, in education i education system was, are we got a new system from the class and from i m f and world bank. all those kinds of fellows, but we can't talk about it even if it's in the documents. so when you hear civil servants they, they behave like lord chroma, who, who wrote their handbook for civil service. they just pretend it didn't tap and they just keep away the documents. and just, you know, brand the system as efficient as efficient. and that's
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a british pin for you. this is a pretty good that it's well we had in government and i, and refute all the allegations. of course, we invite the ambassador to london only, surely i am after a few things to want to enjoy. i thank you. thank you very much. over the show will be back on wednesday, 17 years to the day, the un mobilized the kyoto protocol, the international treaty, which extended the you and framework. conventional climate change until then keep in touch by social media and let us know whether you think kenya is free from british imperialist. ah. join me every thursday on the alex salmon. sure. i'll be speaking to guess of the world of politics, sport, business. i'm sure business. i'll see you then. mm . ah.
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ah, it is breaking news that our on off the international as russian figure skating dog camila belyea is cleared to compete in the beijing winter olympics. a sports top cord rejected a wide, a bid to ban the athlete after recently immersed shoot failed a doping test back in december off the claims of an invasion of ukraine. by the middle of the week, the u. s. rose back a little on making a definite prediction. now saying it could be any day in canada police clear road. p border crossing with america of truckers protesting vaccine mandates . but peaceful rallies and the capital continue in support of the so called freedom convoy. now entering the 3rd week we have to take her.

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