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tv   Documentary  RT  April 29, 2022 7:30pm-8:01pm EDT

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ah ah ah, i can understand why russia would feel uncomfortable with nato coming closer and closer to his borders. but that's why i think this is an issue that could have been should have been resolved at the negotiating table. but let's be honest. you frame was not given the kinds of weaponry and it's still not be given the kinds of weaponry that pose a threat to moscow or russian territory that is simply a false claim. ah
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ah, ah, with hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things considered? i'm peter lavelle. he went secretary defense lloyd austin says he will move heaven and earth to assist you craig, at the same time the ears, foreign policy chief exclaims relations with russia should be rebuilt. talk about a united messaging problem. this is akin to saying to save ukraine, the west must destroy it. ah cross stock in the ukraine situation. i'm joined by my guess url rasmussen in
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washington. he is the executive vice president of the ration center in paris. we have john laughlin. he is a university lecture in history and political philosophy and we have alex me, however, he is a foreign affairs analyst and, and archie contributor, i generally cross stock rules. and if that means you can jump in anytime you want. i always appreciate, john, let me go to you 1st and paris liz trust, who's started her political career in child care. apparently, it was her portfolio. now as she saw foreign secretary, she said the following, the last few days. the war in ukraine is our war. it is every one's war because ukraine's victory is a strategic imperative for all of us. so we're at war. all of us are at war. and it's not, it's something she said, the quiet part out loud rushes at war with nato rushes at war with the u. k wrote the, we have a british official saying, the british weapons used by ukrainians to kill russians in russia is okay. i wonder refresh is going to reciprocate john. well,
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that's what everyone i suppose is afraid of. but the fact that this is a war not between russia and ukraine, but between russia and nato. we've known this since the beginning of the conflict. ukraine is just the theatre of this conflict. there belligerence are nato and russia. how we known this? well? because president lensky told us, he told us, i think, 3 days into the war, 27th of february or something like that. he said he'd wrung up all the nato member states and asked them, could ukraine join the alliance? and they all said no. but publicly the doors will remain open. in other words, war is not about letting ukraine shoes make a sovereign choice about its future as the nato idealogue said at the time, because they're not prepared to admit it to their lines. instead, it is. as you've quoted peter less trust saying all joe biden or the other week saying that the goal was to we can russia. so that is the goal. and that's why the
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british foreign secretary says it's everybody's war because what she means is that the west london, washington, the european allies, want this war in ukraine in order to weaken russia. that's what biden said to, we can russia. that's why they were rearming ukraine. that's why the united kingdom signed a military corporation agreement with ukraine in summer 2021. that's why the united states signed one, a few months later. goal was to increase, to ratchet up the arming of ukraine in order to pose a threat to russia. and that is now the conflict that's being played out. ok, but alex here, if i could still use this quote here, ukraine's victory is a strategic imperative for all of us. what if ukraine loses, as it will if you look it for solid, let's remember. and this little thing we're talking about the beginning of this war . this war started in 2014 and the war started when nato was involved in 2014,
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i covered this from canada, j t f 2, which are special forces along with the s a s n u s. special forces were all on the ground and it could have been on the ground before 2014 helping what we know as the, as on battalion at robbie sector at the same time. so this is something that has been going on for an extended period of time. now when lose it, it's, we're living in 2 parallel universes here because what we're seeing in the west is something that we've never seen before. this unprecedented type of propaganda that i can only say has to have come from the coven epidemic because get large, just as hyped about this, as they have been in the past 2 years about what cove it was. it's unbelievable. and where you look in the west, the flags or hang the commercials or on tv, or see just blue and yellow. absolutely. everywhere. so from that perspective, this war has turned into something very different year. and so it's one of those things where everybody's patting each other on the back and say, hey, i'm with this teen younger either way with us or ality precisely what whirlpool. no,
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it's alex, make it the same people that where the pins on their lapels and the banners and all that. if you ask them, do you know what the don bass is? what do you think their reaction would be? they'd say, what's that? okay, of course the whole finances, italy, you've put it into context and this is this propaganda intentionally has no context . earl, i mean i want, i want to stick with this winning and losing thing because that's a we keep hearing about. what if the west lose? i mean a and that's in the cards here. i mean, ukraine as it stood on february 24th. we'll never return to that ever. okay. and when we hear the foreign secretary of the u. k. lloyd austin, you know, they're all in here. i mean, this is good and very, very badly because there will be a winner, and there will be a loser. and my hunch is, given that it's a neighboring country to russia, with russia, with overwhelming military force, is going to be a disaster for nato. and it is a disaster for nato. go ahead, earl peter,
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you can actually go back even further before 2014. you can look at woodstock and you can look at the grant, just bored by as a new to brzezinski and rand study in 2019 ukraine is a strategic importance in order to to didn't really have a strategic importance to us for existence. but as far as weakening to russia is, and so that's why it's focused here, and that's what the, this is all about to weaken and contain russia and to prevent them from researching and to, to coming back up. what's going to happen if obviously the militarily, it's not going to, unless there's an intervention and then who knows what happens ukraine's going to lose the and so what, what could happen is we could see a fragmentation of ukraine yet. we could definitely see a, a pseudo new cold war potentially who knows how it would look with
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3 fourths of the world, a 2 thirds to 3 fourths of the world, citing and keeping good relationships with russia and china. and then we have the european group with some stragglers. japan and u. s. u k. lead by the us, obviously in that in the other camp. so, so it's, it's a definitely a dangerous direction and, and it's dangerous from a, from an economic. we're looking at a potential economic lapse in europe. i thank you for the oil. i'm glad you brought that up because let me go to john and in paris is what i find really interesting to watch is that there's this enormous attempt to isolate russia. but the end result, the way i look at john, is that europe is isolating itself absolutely only question of winning and losing in a way the question is rather old fashioned that you've put peter,
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are in my view, what the west wants, what the united states wants is for russia to engage in a war of attrition, a general milly, the supreme commander of the head of the chief of staff of the american army, said that before the war broke out, he said if that right russia were to invade the westwood almond insurrection in ukraine, and this has been said by many commentators that the american model is to have an afghanistan for ukraine. so the war could carry on as a war of attrition. a protracted period during which russia would, for example, occupy a certain number of cities in ukraine. it already i civil as it is and those cities would be subject to a long war of attrition. and should be very easy to wage in the sense that obviously there are no physical borders between the cities and the rest of the country. easy for people to come in at night and, you know,
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blow things up or whatever, and a low level war like that or to try and maintain territories like council, no matter what ever. which russia has already taken would, in the american calculation, be very costly and dangerous for russia. and i think that is the goal. in other words, i don't think there is a, a win or lose with, well, i say your line of argument perfectly and it will i be whistling say, right, you know, one nail to nature will to one to rush or whatever. it's going to, the ukraine is a trap. sure. and that is the, how the american see it. all outcomes are bad at the moment to russia. yes, they're very bad for europe and i think euro was isolated itself. and europe is very l. a very vulnerable economically and russia may well resist much better than europe calculates, but it doesn't mean that the come is not bad for us rank, it is bad. i absolutely agree with you. but alex, if i go to you,
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but the worst outcome is for the ukranian people, that's the worst outcome here. and that's not in the western calculation whatsoever . i mean, lloyd austin, say, you know, to, to, the goal is to weaken russia as, as john said here, he didn't mention anything about ukraine. and that's ever go head out. this is, this is something that we, i think as journalists and as animals that we've, we've saw from the outside looking at, i mean, i've covered wars for a long time. and it's usually the united states of american baiting, somebody for writers of mass destruction or some other obscure reason that doesn't really exist. there is no calculation and they don't really care how many people are going to be killed on the ground. ukraine. i as much as i sympathize with the ukrainian people and i feel for the credit people, i have a lot of ukrainian friends. i grew up in the ukranian neighbourhood in toronto, canada. i understand what they're going through. i was in the balkans during the award there. i understand what's happening. but at the same time that ukraine is not the point. you know, it's a, it's a war in
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a proxy war between the united states and russia. what happened with russia now i believe that this was a big mistake. they got basically lured into a situation where you had lincoln constantly saying, no, no, yeah, the well, going to do whatever it was. of course, if they want to join nato could join natal ukraine was a coast joining me when there's an election in 2024. if it's still happening in ukraine works, lensky probably would have been booted out, and russia hadn't done the exact same thing that the united states did in 2014. and that was a coup on the exact same way. and it could have done this in a way that there would not be so much bloodshed, but at the same time, you have to remember as much as russia was baited. and who did the beating and who doesn't care about lives. a did see over and over again. it's basically the u. k and the u. s. that 11 alec, there's one thing that you might could have mentioned, well, never know is that in between time, the don baths could have been invaded by care of. okay. and that was the impetus for us. history will judge. okay, but i'm not sure i agree with your timeline there. okay. we'll find out what,
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eventually, what the, the timeline was and why the decisions were made. i gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the situation in ukraine. stay with ah, need to come to the russian state will never. i've stayed as i phone and being no son, steve, asking him, i'm not getting all sons and up for a group in the 55 when. okay, so mine is 25 and speaking with we will van in the european union the kremlin. yup. machine. the state on russia for
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date and square r t spoke neck, even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with me so called and chance interrogation techniques used by the u. s. officials were basically designed as techniques to break down the human mind. if you force a human being to stay in a certain position doesn't take very long to the pain involved to become absolutely excruciating, but nobody's lean finger on you. you are doing it to yourself. we started adopting those techniques when i was station and mosul among them were stress positions,
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sleep deprivation, a hyper thermo. there's already beginning to be evidence that these old techniques are now being used on immigrants and children, whatever you do in war comes home. nobody has been held accountable for the torture that happened in the past. the moral authority, the made america war later. sacrifice the show of sectors in target ah, ah ah ah welcome back across sack. we're all things considered. i'm peter le belt remind
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. we're discussing the situation in ukraine. ah. okay, early one of the interesting things that i find in watching this conflict here is alex mentioned in the 1st part of the program that he's covered to foreign wars around the world. most of them initiated if not all of them by the united states and its allies. but the impact of those wars on western voters and western consumers i would say was quite limited. ok, it's, they wasn't a high profile thing. some of us have very strong interest in foreign policy, but the average voter doesn't. now we have this situation here. we have supply chains. we have inflation. ah, the fate of the dollar is at stake in many ways people are not aware of it, but that's true. um, so this endeavor to support ukraine that has have no strategic value whatsoever for europe in the united states is beginning to cost something go hetero. i think peter, you remember, i think the whole initiative, this is and all the other work tooth is maintaining us supremacy dominance around
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the world at any cost essentially. but, but yeah, i, i do not, i would agree. i do not think that they fully thought this out. i think they thought there was going to be some ramification, some blow back on sanctions and stuff. but i mean, they went all in with section all it, i mean, it ridiculous. this is direct company and, and i think, i think they also were thinking that they would get more people, those court, the sanctions, other than just the u. s. in europe and they're close satellites. and that hasn't been the case. so i think this is a major, major threat to, to the global economy in the global financial system. we also what's happened here, you hear them saying that russia's using oil or whatever for, and gas for blackmail. but what has the u. s. allies done as far as the
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global financial system and the dollar and the europe, blackmail exact and, and what they've done by using the, we basically basically have damage themselves as far as credibility. as far as the whole global financial structure, i think it's really being challenged right now and, and it's going to have, i think rush is going to have some tough times, but i think we'll get through it. europe. i think it's going to have a very challenging time and some blowback will come back to us too, but it will definitely be affecting on the long term the supremacy of the dollar as a, as a reserved currency. so i think it really hurts the european and the u. s. reputation globally and in a, in its as a result that you're not getting the actions that they thought they were going to. that's why they keep doing after this. freya. yes, you, john, you know, i, i'm,
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i'm living in moscow. i've been here for almost a quarter century now and i'm very well aware of the sanctions here, but life more or less just goes on. there are some inconveniences. yes. particularly when it comes to financial system, but you know, totally destroying the economy. now, the rubel a tumble than it is right, right back where it was before. ah, as the earl was pointed out um, on the global south is mom. now, could he get involved in this? say, see, this is a, something well beyond their interests are these countries are looking out for their sovereignty and their citizens here, going along with the europeans and the americans are not in their interest here. so this endeavor, propaganda and using the financial system and trade is not panning out because it hasn't brought rushes to it to its knees. as i've been telling people they've been preparing for this for since 2014, they've been thinking about it a lot. go ahead, john. well, in fact, when you get back in time,
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russia that before the soviet union has been under sanctions, western sanctions since, since before i was born, you may remember comic on which was a body that designed to restrict the export of technology to the soviet union. so the use of sanctions to try and we can russia is decades old and i very much agree with what alex just said about using the dollar. and also incidentally, the euro as instruments of blackmail as russia is accused of doing with gas. there's a big difference, however, a gas is a real thing. oil is a real thing at the dollar and the euro and not real things. they just bits of paper which of another purpose, namely to buy whatever it is you want to buy. but some people are always going to want gas or we're going to want oil. now they're not necessarily going to always want dollars if they can instead buy the oil gas in the chinese currency or in the russian currency or in the indian currency or whatever you want. and one of the extraordinary things about this war is that, i'm sure, like many people,
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many people may have, have asked what exactly are russians war aims, you know, what, what is the end game from the russian point of view. one of the consequences of this war has been to fro the pack of cards up into the and see which way they settle. and we have seen the answer to that already with india and china and brazil is gigantic countries, the gigantic economies. of course, citing with russia, as you said, just now the global south, including by the way, the middle east, saudi arabia, the gulf states, these, these economic power houses have not cited with the 2 sides of the atlantic. and that is indeed indeed indicates that as you asked me in a previous question, europe is isolated. you know, alex, you know, the, that there is this issue of using an energy as a form of blackmail. well, i think we should kind of put it into perspective here are over $300000000000.00 of
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rushes. reserves have been frozen if not stolen, and you have, you have nato officials giving a nod for the ukrainians. the use nato weaponry to a hit targets inside of russia. i mean, why shouldn't russia just turn off the gas? i mean, that's a war. how, what, in what war can you, any of the way you think of where? well, you know, we're going to be fighting each other, killing each other, but we're going to keep commerce going on. doesn't happen. i don't think it's ever happened here. so, i mean, there, there should be a point in time and say, well, i mean, if you want to kill our people, then why should we sell you energy? go ahead, alex. well, absolutely, i mean, look in and it's, it's are for exactly what you said. i mean, this goes a, it, it's a what the u. s. thought would be a win for them in this, in the sense that north street chew, it's not working. i, they thought that they, they basically shut their oil into europe. exactly the way that they plan to, but a, it's a little bit more difficult than, than what they imagined to do in the 1st place. and as far as i don't correct me if i'm wrong, they're still a pipeline. they runs 3 am praying from russia into europe. so ha, ha, ha,
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we're in the middle of a war. this type of i still flying, saw it from the very beginning. got from my lease, from my humble opinion. i was like, why doesn't russia just turn that tap off after college campbell alex, i will even add a layer to that. that yes, that pipeline. it's the, i'm out there through a pipeline and they're shipping it through ukraine and they're paying the ukranian government transit fees as we speak. okay. or you go, okay, and these are 2 countries that have been at war for how long now, and you have flights between kevin and moscow every day for how many years. so it's just one of those situations, i mean and back to the sanctions. i just want to touch upon this. i was in serbia and the former yugoslavia during sanctions. there are some people say i wrote a book on when i was with a you in organization. i co wrote a book actually. but the fact of the matter is that sanctions do not work. some of the best times my life were under sanctions, where you grab a bottle of wine and guitar, the lights are off and everybody had the best time of their lives. you still could
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get food, serbia was prepared for it and you could be sure that rushes prepared for it. yes, but earl has the west prepared for it. that's the question here. and i don't think they have and certainly the european solomon. i mean, i've been watching media coverage of germany hemming and hawing of what kids can do . it, it can't really do very much. there is a choice. turn off the lights and closed the door in the entire year. european economy will collapse. ok, but they're still these buffoons in the u. k. and the u. s. forcing the germans to do it. i mean, the chancellor of germany, i com. sergeant schultz because that's exactly how he acts. go ahead url. yeah, absolutely here, and then this is going to have a i don't think the west completely prepared for this. ah, but i also think get a secondary intent of this not only was, was directed towards russia, but i think also was directed towards europe because one of the, the,
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one of the things all the docs vince is to prevent europe from researching and create inter revenge to close of business ties. ah, yeah, but with her to maintain us dominant hero, i agree with you. i agree with you, but isn't it kind of a hollow victory? i mean, you want had gemini, you want to maintain your hegemony in europe. but then europe just becomes a poor house. i mean, how is that a victory in the long term? let me throw that to john. go ahead, john. you react to that? well, it's not a victory. it's, it's caught making a desert and calling it piece that i think that the cutting off of gas is going to be the next escalation. it's already started with poland and bulgaria, or the europeans for one minute say that they will pay in roubles in another minute, say that they won't. and unless the escalation, which has been explicitly threatened by vladimir putin notably against britain,
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unless at escalation takes a military form. i don't know what exactly he means. maybe he means some kind of a hypersonic strike on a british target. unless he means that the logical next step is indeed the escalation that you have mentioned, namely cutting off the gas supplies. even if those gas supplies were only cut off for, let's say, a week, the rise in gas prices would be so catastrophic, and the effect on the markets would be so immense that that would itself strike a very severe blow. as of course would a permanent cutoff. so yes, i think europe is stuck in the middle. europe has cooled the wrong as, as back the wrong hold on this because europe has happened. this happened so many times in the past takes the flag, but decisions which are taken in the united states. well, alex, i mean let me finish it with you here. i mean, they are the are western publics prepared for the long term long. busy cold war,
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even if it flares up with that, with russia, they prepared for that 30 seconds. no, you're not. absolutely not lucky. europe right now, it's taking a look at the euro. is right now, i mean we saw this during 1999 during castillo, europe was hit, the euro was hit, the un was hit ignored completely, as well as russia, 3 birds with one stone back. then this is exactly the same type of thing and it makes you fake why this could have been predicted at this could be this paradigm shift. everybody's talking about. russia could be a useful step by actually shutting down oil. what is it? we're going electric? what are we doing there should be some mastermind up there who's completely off his rocker? who thinks that this is a good thing? it'll always be what could have been gentlemen? that's all the time we have here. i want to thank my guest and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here archie's. see you next time and remember articles.
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i have often said transparency for the powerful privacy for the bell. this bitter case about privacy. what people care about is power. tuning into sanchez become a symbol of the battle. the privacy information is power. that's what's going on in the world. a huge struggle with governments and corporations to want to keep information secret and others who the democratic rights a should be pushed forward. and people have a right to know when you are doing, watch how assumption helped shift the conversation around transparency. come see what the battle has done to him. i feel like julian's life might be coming to an end. we are in a conference situation with the largest and most powerful employee in such a situation. it's remarkable to survive.
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so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic, development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time. time to sit down and talk ah, i can understand why russia would feel uncomfortable with nato coming closer, closer to his borders. but that's why i think this is an issue that could have been, should have been resolved at the negotiating table. but let's be honest, you frame was not given the kinds of weaponry and is still not be given the kinds of weaponry that pose a threat to moscow or russian territory. that is simply
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a false claim. mm hm. if anybody's been trapped in an elevator, 20 minutes could be pretty long time right. and the load trapped in an elevator for 20 minutes. not knowing what's gonna happen, not knowing where he wore a sense of sensory deprivation. i think that is your life. now 20 minutes about an hour. not at all. yeah. and the intercom is nothing i was trying to get you out. i was keeping you in is your communication? ah and i think distance ah.


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