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tv   Cross Talk  RT  May 17, 2022 12:30am-1:01am EDT

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ah, ah ah ah hello and welcome to cross stock world things are considered on peter lavelle. the conflict in ukraine continues to pace the situation on the battlefield for the camp regime is going from bad to worse. none the less, the u. s. and it's nato allies continue to pour in massive amounts of 8 and weapons . diplomacy is still not on the agenda.
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ah. to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess when these and in our slow here is a professor at the university of se or norway as well as the author of the new book usa, phobia propaganda in international politics and in russia. on done, we have exempt row, he is the founder of the center of political strategic analysis strap. all right, gentleman cross talk rules and effect. that means you can jump in any time you want . and i always appreciated chris and also the big news over the last few days. one is that we have defense secretary lloyd austin, call his counterpart is russian count or are sort of a shy group. and it was at the behest of the u. s. side, requesting a cease fire. so can you explain to me something if you're following western media? ukraine is winning rushes, losing. but the winning side wants to have
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a cease fire isn't usually the other way around. thoughts, my friend. oh, yes, you are. when you call in for a cease fire or try to start up diplomacy to war, it's not going your way. but of course, the idea of having a c, r and i was also very problematic because it is not followed up with diplomatic suggestion, like a solution to the conflict if you just a sci fi without any diplomatic solution. well, it almost seems like it is just a way to stall in order to get your weapons to the, from the front lines. we can't one week say you're going to push $50000000000.00 worth of weapons to ukraine. and the next, they say less of a cease fire until the so i can reach the found life. but i guess i see some changes on and the reasoning behind it, because the main war in ukraine is where half of ukraine's main forces are the best forces that is and they have out the very strong frontline again in the south on their southern front line for the ukrainians and have been fortifications over the
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past 8 years. the trenches with bush holds against artillery and they have the juggling against the armored vehicles have been trying to storm it. and in the north you have a forest, you have the the river. so there's a lot of natural boundaries about what we've seen over the past week or 2 has been well. week sublease on russia, pierced through a lot of these front lines because for the 1st 2 months they were down the defenses . in the last 2 weeks, you see they came down from if you, they came into a surround it on the top of my f l, which is very significant in both russian ukraine. them, you know, recognize how devastating disease because now the russians can come up behind their front lines and create lots of pockets in the western media. it's not mentioned or this is a tactical withdrawal, which is kind of interesting that like the, the cream, this convention, how horrible this is about. we can't do it in our media. and also you see further
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to the west, which is a closer to a cutting off the entire region, a huge interest coming up. we're from, from russia. so there's a, there's a, it looks like the front lines are collapsing, which and then you can have a snowball effect then, because for every collapse of your credit, defense a free saw thousands of russian or soldiers who can then just move on. so it does look like we're or the next 2 weeks, we will see the critical point of this war. turning your exam, you know, i looked at to read out of the the call between the ministers and again, you know, can you explain to me, i mean the americans on behalf of ukrainians. i guess ukrainians are not in play anymore. it's the u. s. me calling all the shots. why didn't i lloyd austin say, a cease fire and you know, maybe we'll talk about those 6400 sanctions. so, i mean,
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it's kind of like nothing for nothing. i mean, what kind you gambit is, this is almost the point of being juvenile. go ahead, i mean, in my opinion, they want to repeat what the means to it mean. so talking, talking, using this time to reinforce the army. and you know, actually is it ask for a ceasefire. 2 days after the beginning of the operation. if you remember, give us for negotiation and they get the 1st and it goes titian after 4 days. because in my opinion, there is some people, you know, if and especially in washington or in london, that perfectly understood that on the operative point of view, russia is willing to work after the 1st week of fight. because it's a block completely, all their economy for pre beating in the possibility of a fancied, i mean, according it offensive on the, on the plan. so i said,
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is it what did it do is the last 7 years? it's a trying to get, this is 53, and 4. but in my opinion, i was a big problem for them is, are you because the, during the last 2 months is the promise to the my up all the nicest fighting. and in the other style that there will be a free from the russian army because says to me, there are variations, things to i remember operations thanks to negotiation things to because the, you know, the 1st time in the story of war that people were willing to we're asking to be if i created, you know, so country, but you know, it's very, very, it's not just a joke is very important because the, what the plan of care is to is to organize my, your point everywhere in the grant territory. you know, in a civil done it in this a chance and soon in a part of it. but it will work if people inside the fortress of
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believes that there will be any a possibility to like you to retreat or to win the war. and then when russia will take all those 2 quantities did our lives in the other style, it will be the evidence for every i think. also, it's very important to point out for our viewers is that there's a great deal of interest, particularly on the russian side is who are these people? what, what nationalities are they? what are they? no individuals in nature, uniforms, and other things. it will be very, very curious to find out about this because mary always very important to the, to the ukrainian slash nato side because that was supposed to be the bastion that we keep this out. and that is not the case you're going. i mean, that's another thing, you know, it's all these things in play here. when you, we've talked about it many times. so you have this massive, massive a package,
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you know, a 6 times the, the in the military budget of ukraine before the complex started. almost the same size is a russian, russian annual military budget. so you have and then we have rand paul, thank goodness, getting some breaks out of here. but i mean, i'm a massive of spending bill and then a ceasefire. i mean, it does the left hand know what the right hand is doing here. go ahead. no, it will, it doesn't seem compatible because again, only 2 weeks ago. so austin, that's all as a british pound, are going out saying that the goal of this war is it is not so simpler to repel the russians. you know, full victory, take back all territories including crimea, bradley and also break the back of russia, weakening and significant place on the project. and if for some years to come, i mean this is, this is a very extreme objective to set. and then for the and to pumping all these weapons
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and then to call asking for a c spy. it does seem, it doesn't seem likely, but also i think that's a good reason why it doesn't seem very sincere. this is a proposal for a c or for an actual to in the work because again, it is not supplemented with some suggestion or how to. ready work then it doesn't work. and again, that's also the crane and me there concerns the british and americans, they know they came in and convinced ukrainians to abandon negotiations with the russians in the you know, they were making, you know, they were, they were still far apart, but they were making it moving towards some kind of a compromise, they were expecting some concession to spend the war. but again, i think, you know, it's understand a lot of this. i think it's important to realize that this is a large extent, a proxy or i mean, even if the crane is tomorrow, would say listen, they will, will give everything between them. boston kind of song. and this is not acceptable
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to the americans again, for 20 years now. america and its eyes on your credit is invested millions of dollars. this black sea coast is a key objective and you know, it doesn't matter. ukrainians wouldn't want it. this is, you know, this, it sometimes trying to comfort, tell people that, you know, it's a state invest in billions of dollars is not to promote democracy or human rights. they do have strategic objectives. and this is not a conspiracy there. so this is not just the rest of this, how all states behave, states how strategic objectives, they communicate them in the language or values that this is how are we going to work? it's just, this is stronger. it's very interested in the negotiations and assemble already been mentioned, you know, and it's very interesting exactly how you know, they have to maybe give, put in an offer and give them an out. you know, i mean, they, they believe their own propaganda actually. ok. because the way i look at it, and you've already brought up the minutes, go courts here. why should rush it,
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leave any politicians in the west when it comes to ukraine. it's been one line, one line after another. ok. and so my city, the way i assess it, is that russia has always been on its own timeline and it will, it will decide when the conflict is over in conflict, can be over on its terms. what do you say? i guess, i guess in washington, in london, the perfectly understand that russia won't stop and actually put in change is a war and during on a 22 off approval. so it's no more question off the bus and crew made it's question of controlling all the source of the, of the coast. and in my opinion, the next step. as soon as the battle in don't bus will be finished for putting will already, the ministry of defense will announce the new targets. and in my opinion,
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it would be more to read or your current directory or the store for just saw in my opinion at this time the west is no, i can't understand what, what they can do to, to, to find, to find a solution. in this i guess your request is just it just i guess i should, right. you know, they've already done that because i, you know, there is, there is a blue screen. the last, i mean, the west, the last the economy with it's created as their last strongly and each day it showed that it's worse and worse than they can imagine. and in front of them, i mean the west. there is a crisis concerning foods and in san antonio, the west, but all the world and russia is one of the actors that can solve this crisis. so in front of the west, there is, they're going to lose the war they're doing to face
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a crisis. i, we, we never saw for a long time, and there is a, it's a no. so is asking for a sci fi, no, it's a. well, i mean, it seems very obvious to me. in retrospect, is that the russians had long play unless they look at every single possible contingency. because j. p. morgan came out with that desk know to its investors and that the russian economy is doing more or less. okay. you may have a sharper session, but it will only cover from an end by 2024, back to the back to business as usual, or a gentleman. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after lunch break will, can you know our discussion some real in stay ah ah, ah
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ah l look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except where such orders at conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. and the point obviously is to grapes trust, or rather than fear with take on various charlene with artificial intelligence,
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real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with oh, well the magic crossed up were all things considered on peter lavelle? this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. ah let's go back to us. so let's talk about what nobody in western media wants to talk about either because they don't have the imagination or they don't have the guts to face reality. but this whole conflict is really all been about russia, security goals and demands, you know,
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people can focus in on the battlefield and i'm amazed with your knowledge of all the geography at all. it's really quite impressive. but at the end of the day, because russia had put forth ideas about reworking european security architecture, got completely blown off by washington in london in brussels. and then now rush is going through the process of making for the force of arms and its own arguments. and i would even say using international law to create its own conditions for european security. the west is not prepared for this at all. are they? no, no, no, not at all. and i think that this is the key problem ahead of us because, you know, for this war conflict to really stop when they, we, we, we, we do need to have a settlement on european security because again, this all goes back to the, to the concept of the problem, the european security, and we delayed it and escalated the whole way. keep in mind that this whole began
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after the cold war, when the west withdrew from all this pan european security agreements. and just said, is that a ruling dividing lines of europe? we're just going to move them to the east, the respective all academics, politicians and intelligence people said that this will probably to warrant. and again, this is what happened in your credit and they have government to commit themselves to the child. you know, we always say, which was a russian brought it to law and not joining in the military alliance. i mean it's either russian leg or american. but then when the west, back to toppling on the, on the commission 2014, we removed the then the neutrality. unless you know the cia director william burns, you're going to want in 2008. if this will never happen. and need to membership will be a possibility. it will probably be a civil war. and you argue that the russians will feel compelled, even in hero, not me. so just make it clear that the russian would feel compelled to go in there wouldn't want to embed, but they would feel compelled to do so to protect the people and on the bus,
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but also prevent me from coming to the border. this is not the normative argument from my perspective, saying what is right. i'm just saying this is what even the americans talk and tell us people are recognized. so. so my, my whole point is that we have to deal with the question of neutrality and european security. and again, this is what the russians also when the 1st storm towards q in leaving their supply lines are very open exposing them. and they want to pressure your grant, they want to think about issue and coming to charlotte. and again, americans have good a skip snowballing into a bigger, bigger war. but at some point we do have to deal with this issue is going to the beginning. what are we going to do about european security? this idea we have in europe as long as we get a bigger done, closer and closer to russia, said that this is the recipe for security. i think we have to rethink some of this . doesn't mean we can still call them the russian world. we can do other one we do
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have to recognize are so fundamental problems are all this. so i, i don't see, i don't see it coming in. the problem is, is we rush, it's mine right now is fighting a military campaign. the west is fighting some kind of ideological one. it has no room for bearing on reality whatsoever. let me i want to cite. we change a topic, then one in sweden, joining the alliance. i completely dumbfounded by this sweden and finland have done very well with the trial. and now they want to stabilize their neighborhood by taking a side, by joining nato, they are recognizing rush. it is an enemy country. they, for decades, they could no, no, we have no enemies. we're just, you know, projecting security was going on right now. that makes it definitively clear. those 2 countries they want to join nato, they deem russia is an enemy rushmore. have every right you no concerning
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a sin is not a very original because it is basically known that the military in the, in the push for that during the last 70 years, we can say so at least as we get what they want. and it won't change anything because actually trade on is not so close to russia. and i'm quite to some point by finally because as you say, i'm not going to win. so in my opinion is the question of the, of the current elite in this country. but i'm not sure that it will be so popular in the, in the finish population. and so let's see what happened. and let's see if we're going to will agree to let them know because he's a very surprising guy. actually a what we had before. we talked numerous times in december, january and february for the conflict,
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and just been in the russian side. made it very clear that if their demands are not met, that they would re a reply with military technical response. they've already said that now when it comes to sweden and finland, does anybody understand the, the causality here in the ukraine, dumbass thing cannot be resolved. there will be military technical reaction. they said this again now when it comes to sweden and finland, that should tell everybody everything about what's going on and they are not members of nato. at this point. i'm not sure that the fish and the finish population will be happy to know that. know, since, know the size will be in the direction of the country. and of course i just said glen, it's very important to rebuild, but not only a security system in europe, but in the world. because actually the 2nd phase of the united is on the world is
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a allied, if you look at what happened in the us and they refused to put to condemn the origin of variation in the final act of the meetings i just up and let me go to glen on this here, glen, russia in europe, their geographical location, so they're not going anywhere. ok, they are neighbors and not will never change. ok. so where do we move forward here? i mean, they, i mean, is it possible when this is that when we have the end of this conflict here, russia presents its ultimatums because it's in a position to do that. how do we move beyond that, or is, are we just going to be in this kind of frozen environment for our generation? go ahead and transfer seeing a discussion which you have and this is, this is my criticism. if, if this is our plan in europe or in or just continue to push natal closer
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to russian voters. and so just bring security, well, at least have some discussions on it, but i don't, i don't see any base on going back to that in a swedish sweden joining they don't. ready it's, it's quite extraordinary that there's no debate august in england, 80 years, almost on has very success story. i've been being neutral, and now they're going to join in my, my main question was, why is the big rush this know the big debates being hacked or you know, no referendums, nothing like this. and obviously now during this conflict, emotions are running high. so there's a paranoia about that hysteria. so, so right now, you know, you have a lot of people who want to join it and i think they just want ok, let's get this done. now we have on our side, why not discuss this what this is actually mean for security and, and wait for things to calm down before we rush before the russian. it's amazing
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because again, when you, when you see the media coverage as well, the need to cover some main line is a look at what did he want to keep it away. and the chief, the opposite. now we're going to come into the similar but, you know, is the point of this alliance time security, or is it to rub it into space? it just, it seems so self, self destructive or, and also the implicit aspect is if we recognize that russia went into your crank to prevent paper expansionism. and then we're going to spend, then we have to fill in a specific calm area during the entire cold war. exactly, because there wasn't any presence here in sweden. we're neutral, norway. we didn't have any american troops on our soil. now we do have american troops for military bases, which can be used against the russians. and are you going to assume land sweden? i mean, i'm never going to be a key northern front line against russia. and again, this is good for power project. sure. so good for security and i think we need to
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go and have this actual discussions, but we're not having them at the moment to spend. we're having this debates, whether or not we're running something in space, it's very, very dangerous for and, and, and i mean what we've learned from this, i mean with been in sweden. it's all, keep in mind that turkey does have a vote on and they turkey has issues with finland, enter d, and they're supportive the kurds. and you have another complicated layer there. so it's not a done deal knowing air to on. he want something for something, everything is the bizarre for him. so we have to put that on the side here. but you know what, what this is then once we get in the alliance, it makes very clear that this isn't a ukraine problem. it's a brushy versus a nato, nato versus russian, that it becomes very clear because ukraine, the way the u. s. in its allies are treating ukraine. they want this conflict to go on to the last ukranian. i mean with allies like that. ok,
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you neutrality could be the possible things to happen to you. and the way things stand now is there is a neutral ukraine. it's going to be kind of small. don't you think? go ahead. yes, of course, as i would you like me to put in change on the 22 of april? no, we are talking about never actually and in my opinion again after the button and done bus. if, if, if this is a sponsor, don't understand the exact situation where they are. so we will, we will hear new claim, new request for the written part and, and what will stay as a grain. i'm not sure it will be so important to have them 12, not 12, because it will be very short. it will be smaller. and glen does last 30 seconds to you. and it looks to me that if there's some state of view crane,
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which is very much in the cards right now, that will just be kind of a board of us. you do take care of, you know, like a kind of a cost developing, you know, just a, a very small, very poor place that they're going to have to my take on is their responsibility last 2015. so i can see when i agree, and i think this has been the main cause. i'm on a suffering all this because they were going to been put in the middle. and we were trying to decide you dividing lines from europe and just being torn from both sides and suffering greatly because of this. so hopefully that should be a point of departure and discussion. how can we, can we stabilize your for the benefit to be a great way to end this program in a positive note with a very tragic situation. that's all the time we have. i think my guess in oslo and ross of on. and i want to thank you for watching us here or to see you next time. remember
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ah, with ah, the 1st time in history, an entire country's culture has been cancelled the very modern weapon console culture. really desperate, wonderful language, sheffield my love. so thought william kit just me sitting around it with the phrase now, particularly for us to counseling russian culture. yet i know what to create the fuel does it can when you're my fuel over your child. so
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that the most of the temperature random e. normally, what rushes created over the past 1500 years. there's no question. partially condemned, reviled, and rejected to sit in line and you said it's funny at the will of bell. there's a lot closer on a whole bunch. anytime i guess, it'll show all the list. joining total condemnation, gross daily, and now include dostoevsky to cascade shostakovich that i need to you all the pool left. but yes, you can see that what they may just be the time when you do obama lee. you're not going to do that enough with
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the 1st group of ukrainian fighters to renders the besieged variable are those to be your plans. some of the wounded have been taken to all those in the done yet region just by the surrender of those tubes of the floods. the western media joins keep in portraying the situation as an evacuation was a thing as an inclination wall. this is a battle perception over reality. ukraine is spinning in a way that makes it look as though ukraine somehow um on this battle and was able to negotiate the evacuation of the survivors. also they saw a china left his out of the g 7, so they need to mind its own business and not sleep night could revolutions around the world of the group demands beijing.


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