oh, when i was showing wrong, when i just don't want to shave out disdain becomes the advocate. an engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds, the more we choose to look for common ground ah, the history of this you for english, yahoo! recording sticky, unless you only had with her to put you another question. why did with

that you for that ah ah hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, the drive to sanction russia in any one who does business with russia is wrecking havoc on the global economy. the goal is to punish russia so far the russian economy remained stable. this cannot be said for other economies around the world. in fact, those who sanction are feeling enormous pain and suffering ah cross sucking sanctions. i'm joined by my guest, michael hudson in new york. he is

a professor of economics at the university, missouri, kansas city, as well as author of forgive them their debts. in las vegas, we have out horowitz, he is the chief market strategist at baba, crating. and in london, we crossed into a ewing. he is a managing director of concord risk capital or a gentleman cross sock rules and effect. that means he can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate, let me go to michael 1st thing in new york here. will it be? conflicts are about 3 months ago and one of the things that i've been fascinated with michael is the re, a effect of all of these sanctions. i mean, every single day, there's another layer, another unexpected consequence. and there seems to be no reverse of this for the time being. as matter fact, the west wants to double down as where todd is in las vegas may experience a brown outs. i read this morning that francis handing out food stamps. but you know, doubling downs. got to work somehow. i guess go ahead, michael. well,

one of the problems of trying to be a future is this. you always assume that countries are going to act in their own self interest. and that's not what's happening now. are the european countries, and i shouldn't say countries, the european politicians have been back by so much american meddling in europe selections for the last few years. they hide their whole future to the back in the united states. and they really feel that because the united states is sort of running the world, they are representing us interest more than european interest. and the question is now that oil prices are going up, now that all of a sudden europe is essentially being we just out of its chemical industry, fertilizer industry. it's a car industry. and at what point are they going to make a radical change? it can be done under the current social democrats and the christian democrats and

the other politicians there. it's an inherently unstable situation, but it looks like you're going to be squeezed and squeezed by and in a way that's the effect of the nato war against russia. it's really more and more of the united states locking in control over europe in japan is satellites. and by locking it in, it's made a kind of a berlin wall, not keeping russia and out, but keeping its own allies, nato allies and dependencies and satellites in their own expense to depend on american oil, american gas, and basically american exports. and that's why the year was going down, the n is going down toward the british us through and they're both going down to a dollar per year, or a dollar sterling and ah,

the american dollars soaring against the satellites. and you, you can just see where this is leading, yell todd, i mean id for it. when, when speaking of europe, a mean their productivity is going to, it's going to crash. i mean, if you don't have a stable energy relations and, you know, you know, getting off of russian oil and gas. okay. we'll go ahead do your best. but i mean, i don't think anybody voted for it. your consumer certainly aren't happy with it here. i mean, the interesting thing for me is that there's a lot of virtue signaling, but there's not much serious thinking here. i mean, like maybe end the conflict in ukraine. it may be, i get ahead of myself, you know, what europe is doing is self inflicted. what the us is doing is self inflicted go, had taught in las vegas, mom. i agree, a 100 percent. i mean, you know, the, listen. we just heard about talking about oil. you know, the united states stop drilling oil on the, on the flip of a coin. and immediately after president biden took office, we were no longer an expert. in fact, we can even get it,

which is why inflation is going to pluto in united states of america and around the world. but again, you, you hear about the currencies, what's going on. the currencies are, are fraudulent, current thing to begin with. the fayette currency system is central banks are wrong . the globe basically stealing money or giving us taxation without representation, no matter where you live. yes, the dollar is much stronger against the other currencies. however, the dollar doesn't buy anywhere near what it should be by. i mean we're paying here, which is cheaper compared to your, but we're bank by dollars a gallon for gasoline. this is a problem. it is mean self created in self promoted with the idea of bringing in green energy, which is ridiculous because it couldn't be done if they want to get it done tomorrow. and when we have a, the talk of rolling brown house throughout the summer, our power grid couldn't handle a green and power. good anyways. so you know,

you should have said and continue to produce oil. and you should have been a net exporter, which would help the u. k, which would help germany, which would help the united states and bring the price down. and that would really put pressure on russia. but yet russia is now actually driving. just take a look at the rubel, what it is dawn and it's now at about 3 or 4 year highs from or was. so there's a lot of issues you're that are all self created as you should. you know, tony in one who are the biggest one who suffers the most from the sanctions here. and again, these are not voted upon. there's not any that. apparently the west is protecting the so called democracy in ukraine. but with in the west, people are being, are suffering because of decisions made by leaders that there they never consulted anyone with about and, and so the question is, who suffers the most from this? and there, is there any turning back? because the 2nd one part of the program want to talk about this, this great breached it's going on in the global economy. go ahead. tony in london.

yeah, thanks a lot. in my opinion, i guess i probably have a bit of a country and you know, i was in russia when this happened in february and, you know, i think like like most russians, i was in shock. but then i started thinking about things. and if you look at the russian economy, it, it has, it is, it is done well, but it's, it's come back in many ways to, in certain indicators where it was about 20 years ago. and from my point of view, and i'm speaking from a, from a chest playing point of view, from my point of view, the move that the president putting made in, in terms of moving into ukraine was, was, was thoughtful, i think. and i'm not altogether convinced that the american did not anticipate that move. and i think on, on the parts of both the russians and americans there's, and i'm talking about big business. there is a thought about all the natural resources that russia has, has that have been,

that are not being exploited. and that that economy is it. technically, it could be the largest economy in the world by far. it has 3 times the amount of resources that even the united states has. and yet we see an economy that has not done what it could. and so when you talk about those that are being hurt in my, my theory about this, the idea was, was to allow the u. s. and the europeans to, to do the heavy lifting by 1st cutting off a lot of the oligarchs who've been choking the economy and retarding it for the last 20 years. the people that, that have owned a lot of the assets, but have stashed a lot of the money that they've, they've taken from russia and stashed abroad. and 2nd, to, to create a level playing field. that is, when business does resume back in a rush and it will resume when, when companies do come back from the west into russia because they will be forced to. i mean, mercedes will need to, they need to have the largest market for their cars back on track. then in,

in when, when that happens, they're going to come back under different terms. and i think, you know, in a, in a similar way that we saw china, you know, do this to everyone during w t o when, when they came to w t o and they said, look, they're going to be new terms, new, new playing. they got rid of a large number of, of their, you know, sort of would be oligarchs, and were able to neutralize them and to allow foreign companies to come in and to, to operate on new terms of the chinese that were favorable for china. i think, i think that's the goal here in russia and i, i don't think that it's, it's, it's the villain and that of vladimir putin alone. i think this is there, a lot of people involved and i think the u. s. has been jocking for that. i think we saw we saw some of our own politicians and their relatives doing that in ukraine . so yeah, well, i think there's a really good point here. i mean it's another grift here. i'm michael. i mean,

you know, talking about coding well going after all, god. so they're not really called that anymore. that's kind of a ninety's term. and is, are, is confiscating people's property russians property in the west that mean that is a complete breach of law and no due process. and that's going to come back and haunt the west. ok, because people are not going to trust their bank or trust their real estate. they're not going to trust their law. ok, this is another unintended consequences. it shouldn't be done. you might go, i mean, since we're talking about russia, i live here. they, it's a country that is under sanction, but out, other than being able to participate in the global financial system, more or less, everything's ok so far, michael. well, i think it's just doing a favor to russia to have that rely on its own money creation. most of russia's money as an investment is a domestic not born. there is no need for russia or other countries to borrow dollars to create money in their own currency, to build their own factories,

more housing and more real estate. so to build up our economy. so, by cutting russia off from dollars, it's obliged russia, so just create all of its own money that keeps all of the interest charges. and the debt service within russia itself. and actually fries russia out from this drain or russia had been convinced that it somehow needed dollar credits that it doesn't need at all. so again, russia comes out of the net inner on this, i tied to it the strength of the rubel. i've really surprised a lot of people including myself actually i'm, it says because it's more commodity based now because instead of just printing it, it's based on something. it's based on something that people want, you know, oil, gas, grain, things like that, real things, not this imaginary stuff in the west. go ahead. well, i mean again the, the, the rubel is a win win. russian forced people that they want to buy rushes natural gas. you had

to pay and roubles, you couldn't pay in any other currency. so they dictated the terms to the rest of the rural. if you want are goods and, and the, the sanctions that are imaginary leads. there are really not there. and, but i know we're still doing business with russia and rushes. got a key partners all deal, which is china. jain is, you know, they've been trading back in burger china and will continue to do so. and this is in china's somewhere involved in all these things are, but the biggest problem is going to be the famine and the lack of food. and i want to, i went to great, i want to get to that point after we go to our break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on sanctioned state with ah, come to russian state to never see. i've studied this on the most landscape.

american, all sons, a group in the city of abilene. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. when else going on with we will ban in the european union, the kremlin media machine. the state aren't russia today, and school ortiz spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with mm hm. forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders

given by human beings, except where such orders at conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence at the point, obviously is to place trust rather than fear like to take on various job with artificial intelligence, real summoning with a robot most protective own existence with a welcome back to crops like we're all things are considered on people about remind you we're discussing sanctions. ah,

ah, okay, let's go back to tanya in las vegas right before winter break even started mentioning about the issue of a food insecurity in the world. i really would like to point out say when there's no shortage of food, it's sanctions and it's so supply chain issues here. okay. i think a lot of the media has been very, very dishonest and talking about this issue and it's fear mongering. but sanctions to play a role and some supply issues here. so to todd, to take it from there because this is an issue i asked earlier in the program, who suffers the most? what's always going to be the poorest that's going to some of the most in the, in developing world and in the developed world. go ahead, todd. i think the, the biggest sufferers are going to be, obviously, as you said, the poor a lot of africa. and of course, the middle east, which is, is desperate for, for russian wheat and for ukrainian wheat. and the atlas and they supply 30 percent of the world's crops. and you know, we say everything's okay. however you have,

you had a bad year in australia, which is a big producer. you had a bad, your brazil. and if deny of states doesn't produce, it's going to create a lot more of a real shortage of food products as you're in, you're going to do, there's a good chance you will see united states $10.00 for a loaf of bread next year. wow. already running into trouble with these high commodity prices and the inability plus a bag that russia control some key components for fertilizer, which is also short. so you're seeing a lot of things driven for no reason, except for that we have a, a war in ukraine and russia. and we have the outside world trying to dictate terms of are russia analysts, which is not going to work unless you, if you only weaken, hurt them is 3rd them financially. the only way to that is to produce oil in united states, then you could actually hurt russia and are financing. but the way we're going about things is really just making more problems for the rest of the world, including us in the south and is michael,

you erased your finger there. you want to say something. go ahead. yes, you mention north africa and the port, the squeeze on oil prices and food prices is going to cause and balance and payments prices for latin america or africa and for much of asia. and this is coming at a time when their foreign debts are falling due, and there is no way that these countries didn't pay their dollar eyes. and also afford to import the energy and the food to keep them going. so united states is doing is planted assigned bomb that will be exploding by september when the foreign debt service is coming due. and you're about to see a lot of defaults. and at this point, russia and china come in and say, we will provide you with not with the oil, the food around the sanctions, and you're having the chance of the whole world splitting into 2 blood work and

they know blog and russia, china and eurasia, and the southern hemisphere all together. i'm glad you mentioned that tony. let's, let's address. go ahead and jump in. go ahead tony. but i would really, it doesn't seem to be the goal. i mean, it, you know, to me, since, since the cold war ended, and i remember when, when, you know, when i was in graduate school and people that were getting physics, ph. d, 's were talking about, what are they going to do now? because, you know, there's, there's no more enemy for them do to, they can't get high salary going into to government offices because they, you know, there's no more enemy for us to fight. then, you know, since that time we've been, we've been having little wars in the middle east little words here. i think the goal was to get another cold war, isn't it? and to divide the world into, into 2 halves, where we're in effect, we still would have some control over over some domain. and everyone would, would need to rely upon the u. s. for permission to do whatever they need to do. and we really didn't want globalization, so i kinda feel like this is done on purpose and that this is this, but, you know,

isolating. russia was, was that plan? it was, it was, it was never the acceptance of the fact that perhaps we could actually be allies at some point after, after all, the ronald reagan years. we, we kind of thought, well, let's, let's continue and see if we can still get profitable, you know, profitable deals for or defense contractors. they're shooting off those. those javelins that are 250000 pop in ukraine, all 24 hours a day. now, you know, those are things that people are benefiting from. so when you talk about the losers, you also get to talk about the winners in the winter seem to be pushing for this. this sort of 2nd cold for cold war. went away in that on time because, i mean, i, if, whether it was the intent or not. what i see is that we're going to have to globalization 2 separate ones. they're not going to have a whole lot of contact with each other. because while i'm, i'm, i'm very cynical the, the u. s. wants to gemini, they don't like challenger's. ok and if you, if you challenge them either you know, isolate them or destroy them, that may be the best option in here,

just not talk to each other. go ahead, taught in las vegas, i think the united states is driving along with other partners across the globe on identify at the moment, but probably china and others is to bring it into total globalization and ignore and, and break out all the middle classes across the globe and make this an i socialistic world where we don't have any more small business. you have no more competition for the big vendors, the big, the big dealers. you know, whether to be from the defense side of the world or from the facebook and google's of the world, who will no longer have competition. if you break out all the middle of last year, buster everybody out. and you have just one big socialize world. you have no more competition, you have no more real desire to go to work and create. you've destroy an entire class of people and that's what it looks like is happening to me throughout. and that is very much in, on par with what goes on and russia and china all the time. and i think this is

where the united states is headed under the current regime and current. michael way in on that about this, this the, these 2 blocks of globalization, do you see it that way? i, and is it, is it inherently stable or unstable? go ahead. michael is not simply a group of one countries, nato, and the u. s. against others. it's a conflict of economic systems in the united states system is a financial i system that's not real. real capitalism is finance capitalism. and it's a push the united states into a depression, a depth deflation. the united states as d industrialized, because it's so high cost because it's financial ised in russian, china, and eurasia. they can create finance not to increase stock and bond prices are the wealth of the one percent. they can create actual means of production for the 99 percent. so it's a conflict of a jayla can on our tony. what is the fate of the dollar in all of this here?

because i, over the years i've done a number of programs about dollarization, but that was more in theory. it now, it seems like in reality, as i pointed out here, if you're seizing people's assets and things like that, you know, venezuela were russia, iran, and they did the thought is, you know, why should i get involved in their financial system? if you're going to steal it from me, ok. people don't want to do that. ok. and they're working now in their own currencies. that is something that started about 20 years ago and it's certainly accelerated. go ahead, tony. i think the dollars under serious threat. i mean, i think, you know, you, you wouldn't even need to go as far as overseas. if you could look at what's happening domestically. i mean, our colleagues in the show pointed out that we've got, we're, we're, we're facing hyperinflation, where we're facing a situation where in effect, the dollar, regardless of what the, the quoted priorities are abroad. it simply does it by what it used to, whether that's domestic or, or foreign. i think when you do look

a br in you and you, you, you also think about the concept of crypto currency. for example. i mean, we had, the administration come out, you know, a month or so ago talking about a dollar crypto or crypto dollar. but you know, years ago when, when several of us were talking about the need for crypto currency to be embraced, perhaps by the united states. by other countries, no one wanted it, no one had interest in it. now that the dollars under threat to me, i see that that crypto dollars really just you know, grasping at straws them. and i think there there's, there's desperation there to somehow stabilize the dollar. and for the reasons that my colleagues here have said, you know, we, we have, we have a world where there's an energy crisis that's coming. we have a food crisis that's coming, both of which are artificial. you're busy. yeah. trying to take tony, tony, they're artificial. okay. that this is what really gets to me. okay. they are artificial. they're there. it's because of her politics. politics is creating a shortage. ok, that number up and running our time together, we got to 10. let me go to tell her israel as

a production. we know most of the press is full of crap and creates fear in their fear migrate over in this particular case. there is a real shortage and in the united states doesn't have a big crop production with the lack of russia there is going to be a shortage. and, and again, it's going to mean that people are going to pay a lot more to eat. and that's going to really hurt the, the middle east, and some of the small and poor countries. and, and the overall and overwhelming manipulation, fraudulent behavior by the central banks around the world, which really get into destruct currencies, which is trying to get to a digital coin versus a crypto coin. i think there's a big difference there, crypt, those are will because they cannot be interfered with with the by a central banking system. that is the whole theory behind crypto currencies. what the, what the world wants and certainly died said when i was a digital coin, which they can all still it will, did the value and make worth less,

make your spending power were less and make you live harder to live the same life you live before and this is, these are the bigger problems yet are being created by these high dollars and high kurt low currencies across the globe because they're all, no matter what number they're sure quoting are worth less today than they were yesterday. okay, let me go to michael. michael todd said in the program that we could face a $10.00 her loaf of bread. what are the social and political implications of that in what we saw we think of is the prosperous west. michael were in a death deflation, were not in an inflation that there may be after the 3rd world countries in the global south. their current season will go down against the dollar because of their balance and payments deficits. the paper, food and oil for the uh, global south, there will be a currency depreciation. but in the united states, it's written as such heavy dep, that's not the case and other parts of the world in the v as you pointed out,

but it doesn't have to be this way. there's no real shortage. it is an artificial shortage created by american policy and the world does not have to suffer. there's a way for it to get by and it looks to me like the way to get by is to throw in with the countries that are growing with eurasia, with russia, china, iran, india, that is going to be the new center of the world, essentially just leaving the united states and europe ah, to, to shrink. well, i mean michael, i, i essentially agree with you and i don't think there's any turning back. i don't think there's going to be a return to what we had before before a february 24th of this year. i think it is a breach in a very serious one. and it's good. we can rely upon people like my panel here to help us navigate the future. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guess in new york, las vegas and in london. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r t c. next time,

remember crosstalk ah, a doctor about a week with a

lawyer issue. somebody over there, both of those with you up for you was up with the and i do so as you know that way they don't mind. oh when i was showing wrong, when i just don't a have to fill out this thing becomes the advocate

and engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah, the soldiers over there, the quickly make way. do not see cymbals and an o march to the legacy of the nazi germany. we were all from abundant fortifications of ukrainian forces in a done yet people's republic. also, i had a room with from being held to being homeless. ukrainian refugees are facing eviction under coating benefits because you are pros increasingly concerned that the price touch help comes up. marty gets access to a regional.