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tv   Cross Talk  RT  June 13, 2022 1:30pm-2:01pm EDT

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yeah, as long as i didn't know it's a, we'll get a gym or etsy. we'll screw cynthia station airport. so can you see a modem of sports authority over my eyes are closed or equal to fight phones? 40 percent unbounded 1000000 stars. this some say's a sewing of russian resistance to sanctions and western businesses leaving new hogan growth companies, taking over despite highlighting its losses. mcdonalds hasn't moved away empty handed and there is this new name change. but the one question that everybody wants to know is does it still have bad taste that they love so much? i'm your cards. it seems to me that the taste is even a bit better. i wish you'd, i'd like very glad that mcdonald has returned to russia, but it's the mazda 3 decades ago, i stood in the same to you when mcdonald's 1st open, i was a student able us to, yet to think the new restaurant was unity. that whole stopped will develop further
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and be even better than before. well, there's only one way to find out who i'm loving it. charlotte debowski for asi pushkin square in moscow. a few happy customers on show there. are i delving into the pardon blaine game that's begun in the west over the you train conflict? it is cross talk next. they're closer, peter. and guess the right ahead. ah ah ah
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ah ah. hello in welcome across the dock. were all things considered on people about war fatigue and the blame game has begun was not looking good for ukraine. outsized propaganda is completely at odds with the military reality on the ground. add to this, the unintended consequences. sanctions have had on western economies who if anyone will be held accountable with to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess ladies in our slow, he's a professor at the university of se or norway as well as the author of the book of phobia propaganda in international politics and budapest, we enjoyed some you only. he's a podcast with the goggle,
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which can be found on youtube and locals. are gentlemen cross stock rules, and that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate carly start out with plenty of land. let me read you a few headlines. they won't surprise you, or george, or our viewers are considering our coverage of what's going on in ukraine over the last few months. ukraine, ukraine's at risk of losing war with russia military official. that's from newsweek . a shortage of our, of tillery ammunition saps ukrainian frontline. well, that's new york times. we're almost out of ammunition and relying on western arms as you graham. it's the guardian ukraine is running out of ammunition as prospects on the battlefield. washington post, i could go on and on. but my point in mentioning this one is the narrative is changing, the coverage is changing, but not the policy. so how do you square that? was a good question, i guess because the media has been selling this as a ukrainian victory for so long and i agree this is very also,
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i think he's been obvious, at least since april that this war for them possibly is or so. so with that being said, they've been selling this for so long now, and then at some point in your reality will catch up. you can't ignore it in the more now that, well, all the supply lines have been cut off and you see this huge disparity. but i just have to on very quickly this has been true. this has been the case for most of the war. is a war problem with that with artillery. and when russia has about 20 times more artillery, then they will win everybody pretty much. and this is why it's been slowly breaking down the cranium. defenses. have been winning. now obviously now it's a breaking point. you see a lot of this from this, this defensive lines of the cream is, have been broken through. and also this is a very critical point. close to 7, this is now almost the phone and rush has already reached and a rush across the civic most river is preparing the seats
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for the end of this 3 cities. that's it. this is the norm. 5 buses over. so i think it, you know, what if you told them, if you're telling the people through the media that the ukraine was winning all along, at some point you have to flip it back and i think that's it. i think that's what's happening now. there is need to, to call to, to recognize that something has happened. so this obvious when you want to flip it and say, well actually you came to not waiting and more losing, then you have to explain what happened. and that's why i think it's going to be very interesting to me because nobody wants to be blamed for this ukrainians. don't want to be blamed. the americans don't want to play with us on the plane. so they were looking at a big discussion for, you know, who do crane i think you're going to get to the blame game here. let me go to georgia. my question, glen was very unfair because i asked you in the center who explain the rationale of
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the people making decisions. and you can explain it. ok because i've been absolutely ok without foundation, logical foundation, decision making process here from the, from the get go. even going back to december. so george, i mean, it's quite gratifying. i mean, what we've been saying for so long as being said in mainstream media, but that doesn't seem to impact policy more arms more arms, more money. i mean, how long can i continue without, you know, there's no pitch marks coming? go ahead. a very good question and it is a question that the, the media are essentially preparing the groundwork for the inevitable blame game. no. what's really going on here? are they are shifting the blame on? do you crate? this is going to be is the lead. and the fact is that it
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shouldn't be so it should be the west a responsibility. because in late march, in istanbul, there appears to be an agreement on the table. i mean, we were very close then to the agreement was how many people live school have been saved? if an agreement has been signed in late march, but it was the western came in, it was a western tow. busy lensky don't sign, you know, was johnson said it was just a crocodile gone, negotiate with a crocodile. and from that moment on, just the, would there be no negotiations? no agreement on anything. so now the trying to show it so those, the lens is really, really is and so this is a very familiar refrain in the united states and vietnam as well. we're winning the winning, we're winning winning until we're not winning. and then whose fault is that the sounds, it is that terrible regimes, the corruption to the generals, whatever,
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you know, we did our best, you know, we, you know, we, we gave them everything we got, they just couldn't win. the war is the same in iraq. it's the same with afghanistan . no, it's all gone. it's all the corruption. it's the terrible we did what we call it with the good guys. so they, the, the media essentially laying the groundwork for the justifications and unfortunately the media will probably let them get away with it. well, yeah. and also go back to glen here. now this is a political football, particularly in the united states with elections coming up. because i think it's a characterization. this has been a democratic party driven war. even though your usual, like republicans are neo cons. will going along with it. but i mean, the media is smelling blood in the water here because no one wants to take responsibility. but this could be, and let's be very clear, a catastrophe,
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but the ukranian people. ok, i, i think that we need to point out more on this program. go ahead. i know also in the last point, this is a situation for your brain is this, and there should have been a solution to this even before the war began. so this is a, it is of course are terrible. but i think the reason why they kept pumping in, well, i'm is the thing that to winning is necessary because when you fight a war, you need the public on your side. so you need to components, you have to say your opponent did something awful. and that's where we're bringing justice, we're where we are succeeding, we will, they're being defeated once this and arthur j shifts and you notice that it's all happening in the more that you're losing the work for people with all their support . and of course so, so you want to delay this for us, for as long as possible, but i think the new for a long time that there were losing, i opened it. one has to been the objective of this. so why have them in pumping
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some new weapons in the one can make a moral argument, you know, you should get weapons, they want to give them the right to defend themselves. for example, however, in the united states, i mean, they're open about other objectives as well. i'm thinking like a french french on with their own, they came out and said, well listen, we should send weapons is a good way of killing russians and weakening one of our main other serious and our lives on the line. so in other words, it, which is so often been repeated by many other, other kids of being with us, which is, let's find this to the lost your premium. and as a result will be yes, of course, the payments will pay a price, but the russians will be severely weakened as well. and this is a bonus and we don't have to pay with an american life. so given that this is, has been an objective, i think you have this incentive for a long time to prolong the war. but obviously it's a benefit of prolonging the war to weaken russia. however, it comes out with a cost which is creating an army collapse. now, because they will lose
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a lot of territory and this is the americans wanted primarily the black sea coast. that's why you have so much interest in the last on here. so most of you need to switch quickly and, you know, put the put engine in place for him, moving towards some kind of a diplomatic solution. and of course this is wonderful. loses just very, very critical. mike, when you leave with george, i mean the, the, the, the, the horses bolted, the barn. i mean, why would be interested in negotiations now? ok, i mean, because this is good, cold war. 2 point. oh, when the cold shoulder, whatever you want to call it, we're not going back. i mean, the russians have no incentive, and i have no reason to believe any guarantees coming from the west. no, they're really blown. and that's why it's so reckless and irresponsible not to have taken the deal in late march. because at that moment, at least some kind of
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a rum ukrainian state would have survive. it's not clear to me that any kind of your brain will of the school, because the russians are not going to exact a much heavier prize when they were ready to settle in istanbul. and i don't know that there will be any kind of where you left, the black, the, the black sea coast will be lost. i think it may well be that the opponent is going to move into a grain just to see, you know, just for separate entities of their own or they might join with or a c a so, so there will be anything left. and that's why it's been so be responsible to keep a pressing on the list. and that is, glenn said the objective was just ok. well, let's just seems like as much casualties on russia as possible. you know,
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with the only a proviso is we don't, we don't get into shoot people with russia, you know, we'll send whatever we can kill as many as we can. but we'll just maintain the level deniability that we're just simply giving them the means to defend themselves . we ourselves are not involved in this, and i say ok, we're ok. we have some of the casualties. is that, well, you know the glen, i mean, there's a, there's a kind of a double whammy is that we're here. not only does brain lose lose very bad, i would entertain some things to georgia saying, what the future of ukraine, whatever ukraine will be, is i think in question right now. but the western object was to, to devastate the russian economy in isolate rush at night. one is happened, so it's kind turning into a double defeat, glen. well, definitely, and i, because for the united states have many, many, well 1st this looks like it would be very good war because it wasn't cheap, many things for one and decided that the ukraine could never become another colon
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like a russian country. well, obviously now i think anti russian sentimental dominates for a long time for decades probably in the ukrainian and roles, more national identity at least more so in the western parts, but also throughout the country. there's also, this has been an objective to split new russia and ukraine for forever, but also the 2nd army ties because the united states has been very worried over the past many years now about the economic ties between the europeans and the russians and the chinese and frustrated that there security guarantees have been converted into this economic loyalty, but not with europeans cut themselves over russia. they're also now trying to extend this to china and all over europe. so let me interesting be linked up to washington. so all the strategic autonomy, this is a kind of interesting thing here, is that we keep hearing the mantra of your ukraine sovereignty,
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but george may go to you. i mean, it's the end of european sovereignty is the end of the sovereignty. and so all the dreams that the you entertain since a $992.00 and on dreams here gentlemen have to go to heartbreak. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on some real estate with our team. ah ah ah ah
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a wrong with that you for that? ah, welcome back to cross stuff, we're all things considered. i'm, you know, well this is the home edition, remind you we're discussing some real news with let's go back to georgia in budapest where we're running out of time. the 1st one here,
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finish your point. we're talking about european sovereignty moving forward. so all the way to think since 1992 that europe will become a kind of alternative model of the west. so they'll be essentially 2 power blocks in the west of the united states and you know, capitalism. and then that'll be the kind of social, democratic form of capitalism in europe. and this europe who, because of the mediating between the united states and russia, china was a 2nd player in 1900. that's gone. that europe is going to be a good model of the west. that's the big on. and then, you know, europe is now being that size of, from russia. and it's become dependent on the united states. but they really want to come to energy because it's going to suffer energy rush, which was dependent on the united states on the dependent on the middle east. central europe has gone back was when it comes to that. and so all, you know,
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the americans have got what they want, but this is something that we go back to again, 199192 when both of us wrote his famous memorandum or george w bush. because the, you know, we need to prevent any other power dominating any other com to let you know, united states that's the, dominate every single continent. and therefore, that nightmare that will be a kind of a eurasia that will be free of american dominance that might now, you know, the americans of all the rest of, you know, for a long time, you know what i guess for washington. now, by definition bad, let's, let's knock about europe here, according to the institute for new new social answers and published in the german obligation bill, one in 6 german skipping meals for save money. also holds, it reported to change the law on roland, allowing posted forage for wood forest. they keep their houses warm and there's
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also reports. it's not in on mass yet, but i mean it's maladies. and brands are giving up who, who bonds, because people don't have enough money to buy. i mean, this was supposed to happen to, right, a year i had, but again, i was the prediction within a week or so, the russian economy collapses. a national system will collapse in its currency. instead, we see the economy or some going back to growth, wants to supply change, has been reorganized. the financial system is stabilized and the currencies are getting a bit too strong. i think it was down to $50000.00 roubles a dollar an hour before the war was about $70.00 to $74.00. so it is much stronger than was before. so rough sailed out of this quite well while the europeans now are struggling a lot. i mean, here's the currency of not doing well, the financial system and the economy is becoming more, more broken. and i think part of this goes back to this propaganda with for many
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years because, you know, it's always incentive to exaggerate the weakness or the strength of another series . often we do both with russia, either this overwhelming threat of controls and reelection referendum and you know, figure everything or is this ridiculous country who comment you make a radiator? it's just, you know, there's some backwards. and so i think we wanted to this russian weakness for and you know, that they are sending in the economy is the size of the, you know, spam or something where i think we fail to recognize that. busy and we were talking about economic into dependence to some economic variables as well, which creates more dependency. so for example, in the natural reasons or people know that the key metals, all of this things and food, i mean in many ways. but also high tech with digital johnson versus a very much very self sufficient country. and what we're discovering in europe now is we, we've been very dependent on russia, even if we're successful, that, you know, stop buying russian gas for example. and we can buy more expensive gas,
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other places. it's not going to happen. but even if you were successful, and this would mean for our industries will no longer be competitive. because russia selling a lot of this resource is not on the discounts to the east, simply make also because of the very quickly have to reorganize it's trading under so, so, so, so this has huge consequences model is russian results efficient. but we also, we also discovered that the rest of the world that both really joining on sanctions, you have a few of america and japan is, is, this is the problem kind of waking up. it's still believing it's the 9th is we realizing now just a very different world yet it's, it's very interesting, george, that when selling just counted russian oil and gas to the global south has been knock on effect, making those countries more there, it increases their productivity as productivity in europe decreases because they
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have higher energy. i mean, did anybody kind of bake this through? i already know the answer to that. george. what are the consequences here? i mean, elections have consequences and i cannot see how the any ruling government in continental europe is going to fair very well. i mean, you can, but you know, when you cleaning lag on your lapel, just for so long when you're standing in line to buy. yes. that's right, and really when you think of your, of your was always very vulnerable on the issue of competitive because it was always, you know, they, they had these again, social marketing make, you know, very expensive labor plus, you know, the other, i will say if a mrs was questionable whether they'd be able to compete in a loan against the asian giants, but now that they're shopping. busy in the energy, it's very hard to see how they can compete and more over now this stuck with these
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sanctions because you know, whatever the outcome is going to be here in ukraine. they are going to end the sanctions. and they, you know, they're still talking of the sanctions or some of them the alliance she was in here was yes, on saturday. and again, a ukraine winnie so then now stuck with this, they're stuck with reach with russia. and it's hard to see how we can get around. i mean, the united states, very happy go. we've got rid of our economic rival, asia, obviously have it, but the europe, i mean, i think that really, it really doesn't look. and we can see it politically. i mean, bars, johnson isn't a lot of trouble and it's only, you know, only part of it is because of the, you know, his part is in down, and that is the most important thing. i mean, people see what the cost of living and the dia, the prospects for this coming with this is affecting johnson is obviously go to for
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with other countries. ready shows extremely unpopular, this is going to continue throughout europe to explain it to us here. russia was sanctioned for its military operation and you crane. and then it will be sanction when the ukraine is defeated in that operation. so it's, you know, for the, for steve, all future, don't rush, it will be sanctioned by the west. mean there is no time on line on that. now. go ahead. well, i know a little time, but i think they want to get it off to sanction soon. because if a russia, yes, now you go into their mindset. yes, of course i will come through russia even though the sanctions charge us more. and i guess at some point down realizing that rush is making more money was energy now than ever before our economy. so becoming competitive because of this, this is the higher fuel cost. but that being said,
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i think about that. so it's so important to shift blame for to someone because when you're sending a reward and who's to blame, and i think you see all these different parties started to blame each other. and i mentioned before this debate on last year. and i mean, look at the media new york times, only a few days ago, argued that the overview of the treadmills are a little more about the rush military than you created. obviously this is not true but, but the whole point is that this is the great insult in share intelligence. and that's where they're going. and also you see other ways too. so for example, you can buy administration getting a little bit of ukraine because if they give too much, and if you start crossing territory, russia will strike back and it has the reserves, the right to talk, training camps being in poland or germany. so they want to give to have the weapons to, to, to drug america into it. however, the fact that the given look for drones or, or a couple of those high marks, you know, the point is that it looks like there's preempting a future argument saying, listen,
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we give them everything. we have the most powerful weapons. ukraine is false. i think that this is why it's important about someone to blame because once you start rewarding russia it is by removing the sanction. so someone has to shift the blame just a quick note to also see ukraine doing a little bit of the same because then they've gone out and said that they've been losing losing now hundreds of people are this of 200 then like 500 or so session battalion knocked out every day which is or if you, by the way and but this thing and then adding, think this is always sacrifice. but the west is not giving us the weapon we need. so this is quite interesting. so also kind of the political sort is there's also kind of arguing that we did everything because it's our partners fall. so if we have to make the summer with russia, it looks like we're turning on each other instead to, to see who to blame. and again, that's a lot of blame to grow. so, you know, we're also looking to think time, so i'm not sure if you noticed,
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or people notice that most of our sources, newspapers, they tend to go to this institute for the study of war. and you know, sounds very super academic, but it is actually a thing for ideological things. and how did they didn't want to be informing us about the war? so we might start scrutinizing them because our intelligence is obviously incorrect . ok, george ned. the nail on the head earlier, i mean, it's never the decision makers at all. there's always somebody else. you know, it's bad in tell a bad actors, we should have trusted them. but you know, george and you know, there's one issue even i talk a lot of our is that there's so much money involved in this year. i mean that's one reason to keep it. going to keep for arms, manufacturers, you know, and then you know, revenue transfers, you know, pallets remember, always pallets of money, you know, and then that goes somewhere we don't really know and they don't seem to really
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particularly care, do they? sure. no, that's not. i mean, it's a huge amount of money. i mean, you know, we talked a lot about that for $40000000000.00 package that congress of signed off on in about 2 hours. but that's on top of all of the other money that has already been boring into it, you know, maybe already this year. $80000000000.00 just from the united states alone. and we think of the u. k. and canada, everyone else. so that's an awful lot of money. no one has any idea of where it's gone. so yeah, it is. money is clearly b as in money laundering operate. some people making a maybe a very nice living out of list. and again, you know, the interested party is these things times who funds these things are funded by military contractors. i love the google to study walk, which is run by, it's a neo conservative. i think that gets the kagan so, you know,
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the k goes well in sacramento cost in the iraq paper there, and i'm my basic grand look at it. i call it the kind of was the app and because it's replacing the app and read gentlemen, that's all the time we want to take my guess. and thanks for watching us here. are the see an ex family member? ah ah ah, you can all be american people all the time. on all occasions later, the american people will realize that a marketing innovation, real old development and huge investment in the infrastructure into manufacturing a
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ah, this ours headline stories, 3 people including a child are killed and several more wounded in want to local authority, say was a ukrainian artillery attack on the marketplace and that done yet for public. also, this is the percent of the bring in forces. just outside of the nets can from that they can well they can shoot and shell in all directions. amid fierce clashes on the front lines, our t reports from a battle field near a ukrainian army stronghold on the outskirts, done in a leading italian newspaper identifies individual, did say, are involved in so called russian propaganda. we hear from.

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