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tv   Cross Talk  RT  June 24, 2022 8:30am-9:01am EDT

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[000:00:00;00] a time for ah, lisa canter, russian state full narrative. i've stayed as anton and ignore sam, fevers. mm hm. the american house southland a bill of 55 with
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we will ban in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state on russia today, and split ortiz sputnik given our video agency, roughly all bands on youtube with ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, and i
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know ah, it ah ah hello and welcome to cross awkward. all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. any meaningful relationship is based on the following trust. this is absent in russia's relationship with the west. essentially, moscow does not deem western leaders to be good faith actors. this is the lesson
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learned since the end of a cold war. as we all know, regaining trust is very difficult, if not impossible. ah, cross sucking russia's relations with the west. i'm joined by my guest garlan nixon in washington. he is a political analyst in new york. we have, daniel was our, he is a journalist and author of 3 books on the u. s. constitution. and in philadelphia we cross a bruce marx. he is a former pennsylvania state senator, an attorney for donald trump's 20162020 campaigns are gentlemen cross sack rules and effect. that means he can jump in any time he want. and i always appreciate, daniel, let me go to you 1st in new york. there's no trust left here. ok. and if you look at western media, particularly american media and british media were basically in a state of war, which of course, one has not been declared, but they've made themselves co belligerent in this conflict here. and you know, if we go back a few days,
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president putin in st. petersburg at his annual event basically said, you know, the, the, his interlocutors in the west are not um, people that you can actually trust and believe that's the state of affairs right now. your take on this, go ahead. yeah, well, and 997 big ever since sky one of the half dozen most influential voices and post war american foreign policy wrote a book called the grand chef ford, in which he called for breaking russia off into 3 separate parts under us to live and then the us and then use that as a springboard to, to penetrate into central asia and ultimately going into china. so, so the u. s. has always had the gold, you know, either either on the surface or it's working just below of destroying russia. re eliminating it as a global power, reducing it to a minor, saturate,
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be. and that's what we're seeing now. i mean, russia doesn't. russia doesn't trust the west for a good reason, because the west is out to, to cut russia down. garland the same thing to you because i thought this is all about democracy. ok, i said, i always hear, you know, we have to make these countries democratic whole by the way as we speak right now. ukraine is a military hunter. and if the during this week, the last major opposition party was banned and now there's one television station, but they keep talking about democracy garland go ahead in washington. well, and that's pretty much absurd in that the united states over through the government of ukraine and install the puppy government on. so how could you both overthrow and control the country and argue that it's democratic? at the same time, speaking of which one of the puppets that the united states installed was a dye by the name of petro poorest shinkel. he recently made a very roomy revealing remark when you claim that the minsk accords an agreement
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between um, the, you know, the, the, the, allegedly, ostensibly, the ukrainians and a number of western powers. and, and russia was involved in negotiations though, not actually a party to the missing great misc accords. but petro portion revealed that the medical corps were simply a ruse. it was a fraud, used to hold russia off while the arm, while the u. s. basically armed and trained the ukrainian military for an eventual conflict. so knowing and understanding that even though the west is talking about a deal with russian diplomacy, how could russia possibly do another deal? they had a deal. and now we find out that the deal was just the headache, so they can basically put it like this. i wonder by this there's an old saying that diplomacy is the art of saying nice dog until you can find a rock. that's what that is. how can russia possibly trust these people afterwards, bruce way and who i'm what we have already heard here today. go ahead. well,
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i me with all respect for my american colleagues, this is just a bunch of nonsense. the united states in the west did not attempt to destroy the soviet union to break russia into 3 parts. so may, june was a tall tarion country invaded an occupied all eastern europe after world war 2. what happened is, i'm sorry bruce. so the soviet union shouldn't have liberated europe from naziism. is that what you're saying? they should have occupied eastern. you're ok, yeah, they should have about what you're looking at each i said in my, in bruce with all due respect, please. with all due respect, i said in my introduction, since the end of the cold war, can we, can we draw the line there? ok, i'm not the one who who talked about brzezinski in a book that was written in 1997. it taught, it was talking about trying to break russia into 3 parts, but i think, well,
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he got right that he did write that. and if we, as we see today, as we speak today, and you can check hold of alabama this to, you know, as a fact check for me, go to moon of alabama, the website. there is a conference in washington, d. c. exactly about breaking up russia. go check it. ok, this is not of any c, daniel didn't make it up. ok, this is a pass. go has to be after the end of the cold war and at the end of the call, the cold war ended. thank. thank goodness, because democracy at that time prevailed in russia and the soviet union does all what, what has happened today? is russia under invaded you crate? it invaded a sovereign country, you know, couldn't, has lied about what he's been doing in ukraine since 2004 to has been lying about what's been going on in ukraine. let me throw it to daniel. go ahead with your go ahead, daniel. we have to have equal time for everyone. go ahead the the, the,
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the u. s. fall method, an ultra right lead qu in february, 2014 and key f. that was not a bid for democracy unless you regard step on ban dera, that nazi leader of the world war to collaboration us government and the ukraine as a democratic leader. so the 3rd reich is democratic in your book, then yes, of course in 2014 who was democratic. but it obviously, it obviously was not. and the u. s. isn't lying about that ever since ever since there has never once told the truth. ok, anybody, there's a phone call who was a key of a 2014 other than me before and after the revolution. well, anybody on this phone call was there. i mean, were you on the phone call with victoria newly jeffrey diaz? were you on the phone call with victoria new? i'm jeffrey p. i wasn't, but i wasn't but i was in key of in 2014,
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before and after the protest. step on back, on dera, has been dead. he was by the way, killed by the soviet. what 40 years ago, he wasn't there. there was a public uprising against the the regime. yes so, so there are no, there are. so just a bruce, it's a good clarify there and there are no neo nazis or no nazis and ukraine. is that your position? no, it's not. i'm sure there's 3 or 5 or 10, or 15 in the government, in the government and in the military. okay. yes, they are his, they are only, this is well documented. garland, joey, garland, jump in this john, 1st of all, it's a, there's a logical fallacy going on here. it doesn't matter if you are in kiev in 2014. it doesn't matter where any of us were at any given time in the universe. the fact that you were there doesn't give you some kind of a special knowledge either it happened or it didn't. number one,
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number to the reality is for the united states to overthrow country after country to invade country after country. and then somehow argued that we are against the invasion of countries, is absurd. and i say in this, the united states is involved with ukraine on russia's border, pumping weapons and missiles and everything in the ukraine. same with taiwan. here's my question. what would the united states do if it was mexico? what would the us do if russia in china were involved in the government were training mexican troops, were pumping weapons into mexico, were making plots as to how to wear writing books with the mexicans as to how they were going to divvy the united states up. we don't have to ask that question because we already know about the cuban missile crisis. this is about 3 world powers, one of them pumping weapons on to the border, nations of the other 2, and then claiming that the other 2 of the belligerents, it's absurd and preposterous. you want to react to that verse. well, yeah. first of all, it does make a difference if i were there and you were,
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is there was an allegation that this the day, the revolution that took place in 2014 was by boundaries. and it wasn't, i was in here, i saw the people who are outside the raw. ok. and they weren't. ok. these were people who came for all different regions of ukraine. i know some of them, and they were per pro, to protesting that the president, who ultimately, of course, was corrupt and, and, and left and, and went to russia. so it does make a difference if you, if you're there. and if you have a chance to speak to the people who are either ok, ok, bruce, let's go back to a point that the garland made. i mean there were the men, sco agreements and polish ankle came out and said it was a far see admitted it, that's the whole point of the program. why would the russians deal with these people again? because they lie. let me throw that to daniel. go ahead. well, yes, i mean they'd of course say, i mean this is,
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this is naive to think otherwise. i wouldn't. there are statues or, or plaques, honoring bam, dera in 3 dozen ukrainian cities, including love of there's a giant statue of him, of he is a national hero. he has been officially proclaimed a national hero. zalinski recently declined conferred hero status on the commander of the ass off battalion. the as of italian is the only neo nazi battalion integrated into the rep, regular military structure of any country in the world. now this is completely insane. there was a huge neo nazis segment in the ukraine. doesn't mean that, or it doesn't mean that all ukrainians are nazis and a doesn't mean by the way that that potent invasion was justified. but we've got to be very clear about who is acting here. and what the history of this conflict is and we have a government and yeah,
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which is heavily influenced by nazi elements and decent people should not be siding with that government until and unless it conducts a thorough purge of those elements, which is never going into a chance again, but haven't danny mcdaniel, that does it's worse than you're saying because the u. s. government is aware of this. they're not, they're not oblivious. do they know this? ok, we had, we had congress a few years ago worried that money would be going to the hours of, of the battalion. i mean, they actually talked about it. so it's not a mystery here. are gentlemen, we're coming up to a hard break, and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on russia's relations with the west state. with
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for the 2nd world war affected millions of people. during the conflict, the balance of power was held by the leaders of 3 nations. the united kingdom, the united states, and the u. s. s. on that piece die in one day before the dead man tried christa creek. papa norman, because hitler was weak and knew he would wait and he was bluffing. he was the major political figure, certainly one of the most prominent political leaders of the 20th century. when they were support the germans of the germans, or when we support the russians and that way, let them destroy each other. there was that kind of sentiment in the west at this time. the redrawing of european borders had begun britain and the united states,
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and then just any plan to attack the ussr of britain to survive. russia had to be sacrificed. he is as w. b, i condition davis, mr. boyd from us as the lot of summer holiday capital and miss ramos hall of knowing that the cold war had begun with ah, welcome back to crossing where all things are considered on peter level. and you were discussing russia's relations with the west. ok, let's go back to bruce, obviously the odd man out here,
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and that's why i want to make sure we hear your opinion here. do you want the you with united states and russia, the west in general, rush to have good relations. is that a goal? do you think is worthy? i think it would be outstanding. and peter, i appreciate it. your furnace and you know, always, i always, always. yes, i do. i mean, i'm somebody who lives in the us. you know, the soviet in moscow during the soviet period. i've had a law firm in russia since 1998. i've seen the dissolution of the soviet union and everything good that's happened because of that. i'd very much like to see better relations between united states and russia. so how do we get there? how do we get there? well, you know, it's a very fraud issue. and the number one, i think the russian is to pull its troops out of ukraine. i mean, it's an invading force. it's gone in the areas crank, which are early sharpen parts of ukraine at temple on kia. they've occupied all southern strip of ukraine along, you know,
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the black sea. i think they've got to pull their troops out. i don't think if they don't pull their groups out and it's going to be very hard to that, sir. i in the short term to improve relations because i think united states in the western continue to support ukraine's defense military military. okay. but, you know, if i want to, obviously i want, is he good relations between the 2 countries here? let me go to garland here, but i mean, you know, i don't need to go back to ancient history. i just need to go back a few months. it's go back to december 17th, and russia sent a note to nato into the united states saying, hey, you know, the security situation in europe is untenable for us. we have red lines here. we have 2 proposals. oh, you can call them ultimatums if you want. i don't care, but they said there is the situation is untenable. the status quo can not be maintained. and what did western leaders do? they didn't do anything. they didn't take it seriously. we heard, there will be a military technical reaction and you know what?
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it happened, and that's why i see that is very, very difficult for a lisa russian side to take the western side seriously because they did propose something to sit down and really talk and that was completely dismissed out of hand . that's how we got here. garland, and we understand something, this is bigger, much larger than, than just ukraine. this is about the u. s. having hedge a monic intentions. this is, is about the us being able to dictate on the rules of order for the entire world. and this is about russia saying no, not, not here, not now, not anymore. so you know, in my opinion, what we're looking at here is the develop minute of a new world order. the u. s. and nato nato is simply nato was nothing but an umbrella organization. so that the so that the u. s. can bring all of its vassals together and take power of attorney for the you and for their foreign policy. but
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basically saying, for the most part, libby or whatever country were angry at, do what we tell you, or we will use our power to destroy you. and now the u. s. empire has run up against a, another world power which has grown powerful enough to say no. and the u. s. doesn't know how to deal with that. and the interesting thing is that the u. s. and nato are committing economic suicide. they're swallowing poison and waiting for russia to die. and that's not going to happen. daniel, want, you know, we hear all we hear about the rules based order. if you know what that means, please tell me because i cannot figure out what it means. ok, it really, every day that comes out of the state department, now i need a translator because i have no idea what they're talking about. but, you know, yeah, let's talk about the rule of law. you know, seizing of a private individual's properties and seizing of bank accounts, even of the russian government. i mean, i mean, how is that rule based order? okay. i mean, how can you trust people that are just going to buy fee on steel. okay? because that's what it is, it's theft. yes, i mean,
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i mean the rules based order means that america makes the rules. ready and everybody else snaps to, i mean, i mean in november 2021 or the u. s. and ukraine assigned a joint statement and which they, they said their strategy was to take back the crimean peninsula and the dog bess. could you imagine if russia and syria had signed the document, say that they're showing strive joint strategy was a take back, the goal, an heights from israel. i mean the u. s. would have gone completely fokker. so this empty arctic rules based order is essentially a double standard. it's one standard for the u. s. a 2nd standard for europe and a 3rd standard for all those countries that sort of wind up in america crosshairs. and the problem is that there,
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though that certain category now includes the majority of the world. yeah. which is why the majority of the world is refusing to line up behind the u. s. in this conflict of the ukraine. so the u. s. essentially has back itself into a corner, its policies are so absurd and contradictory that no one is going to follow them. no one can even figure out what the even mean. so the us actually finding itself and growing minority. and meanwhile, garland is totally right. the, the economy is, is, is imploding. and that's the new york times that said yesterday the day before. i mean, the sanctions have completely backfires. so this is, this is one of the really most agree just screw ups in foreign policy, u. s. foreign policy of the last 20 or 25 years and that, and considering that includes the invasion of afghanistan and iraq. that is saying
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a great deal, bruce. i mean, how is current us strategy nato strategy? european union strategy ultimately helping ukraine, because i have noted on this program a number of times, the more the west helps ukraine, the smaller it gets, and it's the smaller its population becomes bruce. why mean one obvious answer is, is it the united states and the west hadn't helped ukraine? russia would have taken over here, would have taken over the entire country. so as a result of us providing military support to ukraine, that they'd beat off the attempt to take over here. we don't know, we don't know that they're going to rush. we don't know. i don't know where to say this is one of these western medium means they got they so everybody knows what the general staff of russia, it's wargames were. nobody knows that. ok. and it's, so this is, this is a myth that's being built up. you know,
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a and another myth and then this fighter you know, the, the ghost of, of care of another myth, the, even, even it made. it was a myth that just by peter peter was, right. if you have you, have you b, have you been a key of i, have you seen the bombing there? if you, i, if the russia general staff want to destroy care, but would have been done in one day. but they don't want to do it. i mean, i mean, cruise, don't you, why don't you find it comical, bruce, that much crawl and johnson, and all these european official and then they waltz around here in the middle of a war? no india or not. i'd say people sitting out in cafes, it's absurd. what you're saying, well, that's because they beat back the invaders because the russians are no longer in your pete. although, of course, there's a lot of bodies to russians killed that are still there. so the glee allegedly what, what happened to that, what i mean, you're a lawyer,
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you don't use his terms anymore. has there been an investigation? has it been conclusive? has it been cooperated, had made their 3rd parties? none of the above. ok allege is one of the alleged dead bodies. if you haven't seen the photographs of the dead bodies you have, if i say i've seen them, i've seen photographs of i see a lot of photographs in video coming out of give, officially sponsor daniel. you want to jump in there, go ahead. yeah, and i haven't looked peter, i bruce's right. i mean there's, there's, there's little doubt to any, you know, for the point of view of an a neutral observer that got that russia was stopped at the outskirts. ok. i agree with, i mean, not a whole that whole it, none of us are military strategist. ok. so let's leave. we can what? ok, fine. but, but that, that, but there's no, there's no doubt that russia encountered resistance that was a good deal stiffer than expected. and found itself stymied for
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a while. now russia has recovered, it's recovered the edge of the war. you know, if you recovered the strategic edge in this war. so i, i think that bruce is correct, that us by weapons western weapons did have an impact. what does that impact is running out? and russia now is argued, well, i have to wait for a few future historians to figure this out here and we've got the darling, you want to jump and go ahead. yeah, it, and number one, number 2, you know, to judge any game in the 1st quarter is irrelevant at the end of this to say that the russians having to have, haven't taken care of, well, once the war is over, you can say that. but right now, to say that the russians have or haven't done anything, as the war goes on, is, is preposterous. but here's my point, also the contradictions about it. and so now all of the sudden bruce is saying the u. s. concerned about dead bodies, a 1000000 dead people in iraq, a 1000000 dead people now sudden were concerned about dead by dead bodies in
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ukraine in my head, if we have any concern about the ukrainians, there is a way to stop that. there's always been a way to stop that in that way was through diplomacy in the u. s. as rejected diplomacy. and i'll add one more contradiction. the united states recently said that they had concern about china having a military basis in the solomons, ireland said they wouldn't rule out a military assault on the solomon's island, the united states group drew a red line, 7391 miles from there sure, that included a possible military response, but the russians can't draw a red line, 1000000000 of a millimeter from their border, which is, which is, which is ukraine. again, the contradictions about, all right, we have one minute left that i want to give it to bruce. go ahead, bruce. well, actually, i think, you know, daniel was right. i mean, there was the invasion ukraine was stopped on the near keith. but i also
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think that both of my colleagues are right, we don't know where this is going, it is only the 1st quarter. and that's a frightening aspect because i do think that russia for now does sort of have an edge in the southern and eastern parts of ukraine. i would like to cc diplomacy, but i think it's gonna require russia to withdraw from portions of, of ukraine that it, it's recently embedded. but i'm all for diplomacy. yeah. i wish i wish they went west the i wish the west we're interested in diplomacy because if they don't gentlemen, there might not be a ukraine at the end of the day at the end of all this. and i think that's a growing likelihood. unfortunately, diplomacy is the only way and no one in the west is talking about it. unfortunately, gentlemen, that's all the time we have want to take my guess in washington, new york and philadelphia. i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time remember
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ah ah, ah, and with my new barbie chauffeur's with a come on the question here with a lease with
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did a year with russia claim some 2000 ukrainian soldiers, including neo nazi formations and foreign mercenaries of billions, circle just 20 kilometers from the heavily impact of city of 0 done yet also ahead on the program today. as the boys joke here, thanks for the ukrainian forces providing extra weapons and munition for their little units for made weapons as well, like these rocket launchers. this is the infamous british made and law fierce fighting comes to ahead in the ever doing yes, get a chance guarantee. visits in nearby and taken by russian forces some days ago.

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