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tv   The Whistleblowers  RT  November 25, 2022 10:30pm-11:01pm EST

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as a boob laneesa will take him to the net almost as i get a slump. the silver load slowly i'm over there where did some little of 32 river carson bra. and he said a shy finish that he just doesn't want to give a cameras. national wouldn't become saying to do friday, that is a month when you order a book before we move the shirt. intronis another jewish hospital. 30 convention isn't this ah, with today we're going to tell you about whistle blowing in africa. not only are there brave whistleblowers calling out government and corporate malfeasance, but they're doing so at great personal risk. will speak with
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a whistleblower from south africa who literally put his life on the line to report on police criminality. i'm junkie reaku. you're watching the whistleblowers. 2 2 2 2 2 a suit is now been filed against american social media giant meta and samar. it's main contractor for content moderation in africa. the companies are being sued over claims of exploitation and a union busting law firm representing facebook whistleblower, daniel mo. tongue, a former content moderator, who was making $2.20 an hour. originally from south africa, he was working in kenya, but then was allegedly laid off after he led more than 100 of his colleagues in a unionization effort for better pay and working conditions. he claims that meta and sam are quote, subjected to current and former contact moderators to forced labor and human trafficking for labor, unquote. and he suffers from as to magic stress disorder as
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a result of his work. now in an application, the law firm said sam, i also carried out a deceptive recruitment process by opening up vacancies and, failing to mention the nature of the job that successful applicants would do. the moderators at the note nairobi hub, or sourced from a number of different countries, including ethiopia, uganda and somalia. and they work day and night working as outsourced facebook content moderators. they're basically the emergency response force for social media . they're in charge of viewing and removing a legal or band content from facebook before it's seen by the average user. we're now joined by our e denique, his research fellow at blueprint for free speech and a fellow whistleblower. ari, we will get to your story in the 2nd half of this show. but 1st, what's your take on the lawsuit that this man and his former colleagues are claiming or victims of forced labor, human trafficking and union busting. this is soaking off,
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but you have to see the big picture in south africa. you know, i, i, we haven't even distribution of wealth. and are you house nearly 50000000 of africans living in south africa? i, you have a few 1000000 south, non africans. and sir, however you have a like i said, the uneven distribution of wealth. so 90 percent of the wealth goes towards whites and, and africans. that's a recipe for disaster. now in recent years, whistleblowers politicians and critics have accused facebook of a slew of things from facilitating drug and human trafficking, allowing extremist groups to coordinate online fueling conspiracy theories and misinformation and promoting even eating disorders. now facebook denies many of these allegations are they say they're issues that are more complicated than they appear to be. former facebook executive francis hogan, testified in front of
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a senate subcommittee in october. that facebook is, in fact damaging girls body image, dividing the nation and allowing extremists to thrive even worse, that the company knows they're doing this and they choose to largely ignore it. and so let's take a listen actually to this testimony from francis hogan here today, because i believe facebook's products harm children, stoked division and week in our democracy. yesterday we saw facebook taken off the internet. i don't know why i went down, but i know that for more than 5 hours facebook wasn't used to deepen, divides to stabilize democracies and make young girls and women feel bad about their bodies. francis hogan has led the most arguably threatening scandal and facebook's history. and recently, the former facebook executive and a whistleblower spoke to daniel mo, tongue, and is calling for solidarity with non unionized content moderators in africa. the
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2 met at an event in london that was organized by mo, tongues attorneys. but it's interesting here because we know now that the tale of 2 whistleblowers who are completely different, but who are bound together by a common experience and a single company. hogan was a top executive at one of the biggest social networking sites in the world, while mo tongue, on the other hand, was a part of the company's more invisible workforce. about 15000 people, often in developing countries. now they both have spoken out about their ordeal in the press quite a bit. but a lawyer representing facebook's parent company, meta called on a judge to quote crack the whip unquote against the company, requesting a gag order to prevent mo tongue. from speaking to the press, are you why do you think facebook is trying to silence mo tongue in this case? but as let hogan speak freely. well, that's a typical slap suit, isn't it? i'm with scissors are all around the world. and we tried to actually get the
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legislation in order to prevent such a slob suits against whistleblowers eve, the canter sciences by physically killing us. you know, that would try to intimidate as by any other means that can be fake news. calculus, initial effect, news, or slop, since it's a standard procedure though they follow. so this is something that you've seen in your experience, but now i want to talk about the media and how it's praised the efficacy of it's a i systems in the past. mark zuckerberg is even told congressional hearings, at least in march of last year, that the company relies on a i to weed out about 95 percent of heat speech content. and that it wants to get it's a i technology to a human level of intelligence. but according to hogan and mo tongue, this is just a smokescreen that obscures the work done by thousands of human moderators some who even suffer from severe mental issues they say, which come as a result of their work. what's your take on this?
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i can tell you now that i keep my kids away from face mucus. my 2nd asked suffered her from facebook's head of speech. when my identity was, you know, this, it was out a couple of years ago, you know, asked there was a blur who blizzard whistle on, on human rights violations, african police force. and i was horrified to open 1st book. you know, there was a system metric for my guns against me and there was no control. i've tried to al, right t z and, you know, officials on facebook i cannot get any reply and eventually had to leave with it. it's traumatic and creates more and more pressure to, to whistleblowers. absolutely, i can only imagine the type of pressure these whistleblowers are under and it probably deters a lot of other potential whistleblowers from coming forward or their resources in africa to help whistleblowers or their private organizations like your blueprint
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for free speech that can help whistleblowers in africa well, john, recently we, i started it, you know, public awareness campaign over the last a year or 2 in nor did to assist further. in south africa. i'm currently, there is a new legislation already form legislation though, which the, which blog protection are and published closer. but i'll be honest to you. i'm a truly believed that it's for the privileged and elite, i'm irish. i came to the, stood that certain age years in south africa are peaky, and choosing on the celebrity case. it's very tragic and the left. a lot of lead seat whistleblowers to dry. i'm. we have for a recent term you know, story all the late there,
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but better the koran who i go, the sonata in front of your house in front of your daughter because she become it was a blower, and supervisor whistle on a corruption and procurement of for medical aid, you mentioned medical aid, full coverage. it was terrible them in case like that and actually says a mrs. we say us in us ari in brooklyn, before you know, south africa stop killing also blurs visits. there's just no support. at the moment . we're trying a burst to help them, but it's difficult. it's difficult, it's a tall order. thank you, ari, but don't go away. ari de nicholas will return after the break to discuss his own whistleblower story where he reveal the existence of deaths was. that's right. death squads that were murdering people, suspected of minor crimes in south africa when he did that. his own life and the
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lives of his family members were immediately put in danger, stating. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 lou ah, a if you speak russian, keep your voice down while out and about a couple don't put your human symbols on display a guy so you guys don't talk to strangers. 7
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i avoid noisy gatherings with your colleagues and perhaps also your friends think you're guilty because you'll russian a specific social with ah, with a
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a a ah, we're back with a whistleblowers. 2 i'm john curiosity under apartheid south africa police for notorious for extra judicial killings and for the routine use of torture against political dissidence. only later did it emerge that these same techniques were being used well after the fall of apartheid when the victims were only suspected of criminal behavior and minor criminal behavior at that ari denique and began secretly documenting the atrocities he witnessed when he was an auxiliary policeman . and he was soon forced to flee south africa for greece,
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where he posted all the videos he recorded on youtube. he blew the whistle on his own co workers in the south african police. and they tried to label him a liar and a disgruntled employee. but for our e, denique is and other whistleblowers, some things are either right or they're wrong. there's no grey area. and what he was witnessing the police killing of men who had not even been formerly accused of a crime, was just plain wrong. he decided to go public knowing what the cost was going to be to himself and to his family. now we're rejoined by our guest, ari denique. us. he's a research fellow at blueprint for free speech. already tell us about your case. what did you do that made you blow the whistle? thank you, john. well, in 2001. ah, it was invited to join the reserve police force. now to me that was a great opportunity since i come from a family of 4 use officers. i mean,
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my brother was a police officer, my uncle, my cousin. so everybody was a voice officer. now i was the gig of the family. i was think there was a computers, but in south africa. but to put you in your eyes and i joined the force now in 2004 . i was, i witnessed a, the 1st torture of the unit and it was horrific. it was terrible. i mean, i grew up in greece, up until 17, in the democratic country. and you know, that's of the well being brought up. so when i saw an african suspect, he was a suspect of standing laptop, been stripped naked place into a chair, and then police officers putting a bag over his head and suffocate him. you know, that was at any point for me. so what i did at this point was, at the time the smart forms just i coming out stop, took out my smartphone,
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and i pretend i was talking to my mother in greece in greek. now, you know, the guys knew this greek, you know, you all speak to his family overseas so that he was suspicious at the same time as, as going ella manna, which means holla, mum, i took 3 shots through video clips of the actually torture. no hard. they discover me at the time. i will be here talking to you. so after that i did what i know now it's a textbook, internal disclosure. i went to my commanding officer who was also a supposed to close friend of mine. and i think you look, those guys, he knows are the criminals, they doing gross, valid of human rights. this with a jing and i saw him the video clip, the men, you know, he just laughed. and you said that my boys, that's how we'll make progress. get rid of it. of course i didn't. that was a 1st time that i become a was floor. and that's what started mob problems in south africa. you were talking
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about that pivotal moment when you saw police putting a bag over this person's head. and you made a decision right there to become a whistleblower. did you take into consideration the long term effects from this and how it might impact your life and the lives of your family members? and what would you say the most challenging aspect of this has been for you at the time? had no idea what it was. a blur was, they demonology whistleblower did not exist. my vocabulary, m, internal disclosure, public disclosure didn't exist. my vocabulary, i wasn't trained about it and nobody had ever told me what to do. it would discipline tanya's movement. and that is the difference between whistleblowers and bathing formers. a whistleblower is a citizen of consciousness. ok. we follow conscious. and at the time, i didn't know what the future will bring,
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i didn't know the repercussions. the dancer was in, i just acted. and obviously i asked him us, i said like he was harassing to do it. thus for i did, we sought knowing the danger that will follow later on r e in 2015. the greek government asked me to help them write a new whistleblower protection law. and so i went to greece 3 or 4 times that year . in one of those meetings i was seeing the minister of justice when we were speaking. i kept using the word whistleblower, and finally he stopped me and he said, what exactly is this word? you keep using whistleblower and so i explained what it was and he said, oh, you mean like a rat or a snitch? and i said no, not at all like a rat or a snitch. we had a separate conversation about what to call a whistleblower in the greek language. the word that we came up with translates to sentinel of the public trust. i think that best describes what a whistleblower is. whether you intend to be
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a whistle blower or not is irrelevant. if you make a revelation that reports on waste fraud abuse illegality, or threats to the public health or public safety. you are a whistleblower. now, what they don't tell you is what's going to happen to psychologically after you make that revelation, we heard about daniel mo, tongue, and the fact that he had p t s d, which he still suffers from. what did you go through after you made your revelation? and especially after you realised that you were going to have to leave south africa with your family in order to save yourselves. johnny was a nightmare. i'm off soft a suffer saw such a heart as dilation that's i mean i end up living like a see from the middle the night with my wife a literally were we were you know, taking away it from by a colleague a soft can greg actually actually smuggle us to johannesburg from durban, with his scar, keep buried with his own credit card for the one with ticket
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t grease. and i can tell you, after i landed, i actually went down on my knees and i kissed the ground that wasn't. but the problem for me started when i decided while i was increased to have this african authorities prosecute those people responsible for human rights violations. and that's all a how, how big lose because i am, i am a living example of how not to handle whistleblowers. i am we suffering from p t s d a both be my wife i have been attending, you know, over the i'm you know, over the internet sir, with an african, a doctor or some, you know, sac and psychological and consultations to try to be able to know how to breathe probably, and how to control our fears. i'm. it's not an easy process,
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especially when you have young children and a farm along the way. so it's how it really tell, and especially when you left, you know, i'm protected and you been a full by the authorities and you become the scapegoat due to political and you know, interest, it's complicated. and eventually the whistleblower becomes a scapegoat. so it is a very complicated process to digest. absolutely true. r e. i happened to meet with an american medical whistleblower, and she told me the p t s. d was the most difficult and most unexpected part of her experience. she said that she has struggled with depression since she went public with her revelations and nobody but other whistleblowers really understands why she's having a hard time. and in my experience, and i know in years as well. ready that's an ongoing theme among whistleblowers
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feelings of depression and abandonment. a feeling of having to fight the whole world by yourself. what advice would you give to other people considering blowing the whistle to protect their mental health? john, i've been asked to squish and foreign sicilian motivational speeches, when advocates for whistleblowers by vice now. but i'm 51 years old and i've dealt with wish, blowing over 20 years is know your rides. know your look a loss and make sure that you know what you're getting into. so do your homework. first. bombs have changed. we know have secure mechanisms or protection secure mechanisms for whistleblowers to do anonymous tipping. or, you know, of, of public disclosure. we have now an in europe, a directive full, the protection of whistleblowers act,
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2019. so we have mechanisms in place for exactly this problem. so the whistleblower doesn't go through that ordeal. and to me discuss with your family. make sure you have your family support, make sure you know what, what you're going into and be prepared for everything. a, make sure you have an escape plan. and also i will say i i it's, it's difficult, it's difficult now because i get emotional through that process. single family 1st . it impacts everybody. it doesn't just impact the one person who's coming out and speaking their truth. and i would imagine that every circumstance is different. so overall, would you say the essence of whistleblower trauma is rejection and persecution. do you think that the key to the recovery process involves empowerment in communal
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acceptance? why? what do you think will is separated to the support i did to we have whistleblowers at the law office directly in danger. so that might be a certainly assassination attempt against them. now those people for that other lives will have to look behind the buck. ok. that is something that you can get over to me, constance therapy for each. and you got you have the other side, were you suffer humiliation? you suffer a character nationwide by fake news media. you have been isolated by your community, your family, and also you have dropped down your a standard of living, you've lost her job, you're unemployed, you have lost your income. so that's not a different subject altogether that to different things. so it depends on which category you fall into. there is certain degree of stress and, and obviously post traumatic stress disorder. the biggest take away here is for
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whistleblowers or people considering coming forward them with important information is to protect themselves. ale press, and his railey journalist wrote a book a few years ago, offering psychological profiles of for whistleblowers throughout history. the book is called beautiful souls. he found that all whistleblowers share several traits in common. whistleblowers have an unusually well defined sense of right and wrong. far more well defined than the population at large, they tend to see the world in cases of black and white. they never regret blowing the whistle even if the cost to them is very high. and sadly, they almost never make a financial come back. would you agree with this assessment? has that been your experience soon? absolutely. i mean, i was a prominent bisman. so africa, not any great to when i was 17. and because i was, you know, like us that gig in electronics and it was a hardworking imogen greek or car that create the business by the age of 2425. uh
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huh. businessman, house mancha. and it was, you know, i had no family, no liabilities, and but 2008 because i decided to offered to my community and be a volunteer for the police force, mo, love to just, you know, crumble under my feet. i've lost everything. i had to do to go and xle was virtually nothing. i had to start again in a country which was strange country to me. i mean, i was away for 20 years. i grew up educate myself and i become immense of africa so . so africa was my country, and then i start to process, you know, information of how to adapt in a new country in a language. i almost forgot about it. and also i become a parent i had to, you know, kitchen away. so it was, it was extremely difficult because the years go by because you change environment
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a bins, vomas' so drastically it is very likely you're going to recover financially to be one a 1000000. i don't see us recover and as the right when our living ass good us or better. now that than before, when before will be the whistle. ari denique, as thank you so much for joining us. that's all we have for you today. we'll catch you next time. i'm john kerry aku and this has been the whistleblowers. ah. 2 2 ah the for the
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the business and you agree in the 3 day notice shoes and you made it comes graham, when you wrote, you got to will use the function up quickly when you such a circle. even arthur of the different city impala chelton wishing that you get thrown with them probably and you're still not sure if you're here take if you bought it not be studies on that was the venue of stuff coming to you which and it was just up to just a moment because i knew you were and you don't know which i know for the don't know if i should just to do given the other than that, you're going to go to these just opinions. so not come
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on in lisa. russian state. never. i've gone in the northland scheme again, the 50000 speedy one else was about the even we will ban in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on russia today and was given our video agency roughly all fans on youtube. and she did receive a request for the a
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a while we have which are ours, we make, you know, let you to really, you care about me. if you care about to play. i wish somebody could just tell me why they're all lynching beating poverty. why supremacy is the disgusting amber? the people in mississippi voted on a flyer and 65 percent of the people voted to keep the car flag. our purpose is to to plan the good labor to get better help because of these monuments that you see everywhere or not. can they not monuments to the kids that are there monuments to the soldiers, to the battery. you know, if we're going to be offended by everything, every negative part of our history,
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we have to get rid of everything a mm . a, a disturbing images up ahead. civilians are killed the latest ukrainian bombardment i've done. now it's, it's true shell, the russian region $39.00 times in the past 24 hours. we report from the attack a u. s. military base and syria comes under attack. i made rising tensions between nato allies, turkey and the us. and in the latest news from africa gonna announce is a shift towards using goal instead of the us dollar for oil purchases.


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