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tv   Cross Talk  RT  November 28, 2022 5:00pm-5:31pm EST

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[000:00:00;00] ah ah ah hello and welcome the cross walk where all things are considered on people about the lights are going out all across ukraine infrastructure that cannot be easily replaced any time. soon. nato continues its proxy war against russia, saying as long as it takes will ukrainian state and society collapse before it's military,
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is defeated on the battlefield. ah, discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, martin j america. she is an award winning journalist and commentator, and here in moscow we have to meet re, bobby cheese, a political analyst and editor. and in this me internet media project. for a gentleman crosswalk rules and the fact that means you can jump in any time you want and i always appreciated when i start out with america martin, you know the, the 1st one is a hallmark of this entire conflict is the amount of propaganda that has come out of the western governments and media. i mean, this is extraordinary because everything is very, it's inverted here. while it, there has been a lot of prescott coverage of rushes initiative to disable ukraine's electricity grid, its power a grid. i me, there seems like, you know, the,
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there's this narrative that ukraine is still winning, which is so counter, it's counter intuitive to what reality is on the ground, the more the electricity grid and infrastructure that is destroyed in ukraine, the less likely russia will have any interest in any kind of cease fire, i mean, will decide it wants to see fire this society. that's losing. but the west gives the perception that russia wants to cease fire. and so this is so counterproductive and really destructive to ukraine because there is no reason why if you're winning, there's no reason why you shouldn't talk. go ahead mark. yeah, and i think fake news is actually keeping this war going on. and the people who are losing the realist is the people who really play the price, so just humble ukrainians, you know, really feel sorry for them. just recently this week, sort interviewed by the bbc's correspondent with mr. and mr. sons,
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his wife. and she asked the 1st lady, you know, what's gonna happen with the electricity will not goes. and she replied, well, you know we, we've spoken to ukrainians and you guys are told us that they can handle that. so in that couple of years, well, you know, i find it very hard to believe and i've spoken to your kindness, but the do. i didn't see the referendum. i didn't see that pop up anywhere. you know what she remains is, she probably spoke to a few of her cronies in the car which make up the elite around the central indicated family. and some of those billionaires drive around. ready bulletproof, mercedes are said, well, we can put up with it for a couple of years. you know, we've got the generators and we can buy black market diesel. there we go to the french movie era when it gets cold. yeah. you know, but you know, british virgin islands, wherever they special, there's money, you know, there's been enough reporting on that. so we do know that this is going on. but fake news and distortion news and the mission. and that's really my, my bud channel is it's not as often it's not distortion of the news. it's the
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emission of reporting and there's not enough reporting that's going on by western janice to actually show that actually does this destruction of the infrastructure. electricity is, is a usually powerful leverage in this war. and if people start to really fill the winter and can't get water because water pump electricity, they can't get saying they can't get drugs. congress food, you know, that is a massive point of leverage from the russian side. so this is being misreported all the time. and there's a lot of lies being pumped out there. i mean, i'm just not checking this. so there's that. it's not giving us the. ready facts that we need on the ground. so the result of that unfortunately, is that the world gets prolonged and there's just no hope for any piece towards because you have this defiance this, this ignorance, this is blinded by their own dogma attitude by the european union, particularly officials in brussels. you know that there is no new and there is no grades or there is no middle ground that we can talk. there's only one solution,
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which is what we will win and we will carry on backing landscape government. but you know, you have to learn in that sense in the, in the narrative gets it right. but for the wrong reasons, let me go to d. my there in, in the west is this kind of mentor. you know, this all the time when, when right? but demon, in this way, this conflict was constructed by nato, with ukraine as a willing volunteer, not a victim as a volunteer into this is going to be a win lose situation. and it will be one of those situations where it is actually quite black and white. one side is going to win and one side is going to lose in the loser, is going to be vanquished. and the implications of that for the neo liberal ideology and their worldview was going to be devastating. that's why we keep hearing the narrative. ukraine is winning because in intellectually and they cannot even intellectually,
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but psychologically they can accept the fact that they are going to lose a war that they started or start with like, your stress that no one here it. and what about of electricity grieving? your grain, you know, is able with about people staying without water and electricity, especially the old ones. no one here is happy about that. and if the russian nationalism has never been particularly strong in russia, never came out in the beginning of the 20th century, nor often 1991. when the state collapsed. there are very few se question nationalists actually consider themselves, you know, if your greens most the russians consider your green yes. part of themselves. you know, these are the same people who have the same rights and they should be, they can have their own state, but that they should be
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a problem. is that since 2014, the whole reason ben, green and state was to try to rush, you know, russia top with the fact that you had not been a friendly state until 2014. ok. they have their own country fine, but to make it completely hor, style was a huge, huge adventure is a step on the part of the last. so in that sense, president jim is not the worst choice. i mean he can see this green yes. the same people with russians for that reason he did not give the green electricity system for 9 months, you know, he had been waiting for some kind of diplomatic solution for some kind of a way to resolve. we started doing it only after that, that was the cranium breach, which was if you were there is you know,
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in which 2 people died by the way. so basically i went to say to when, you know, in russian language there is. and so what, what for, for the, for the, for when you can win in the gamble, we don't use that. what will be great. we or you can always go, you go, eat, eat, which means you know, overcome the difficult to believe that trouble behind you. so we want to overcome and we will do it. but just look at the facts on the ground. water. com. it's the so analyst is absolutely right. when he says that basically a russia will certainly win this winter because the kind of 80000 men are coming. you know that it was troops. a radius are given in boss is not reported to the west, but every day small a small
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a me about a fish degree. we did 11 months, something that the americans did with iraq and survey in the 1st the 1st 3 weeks. all taken all the pieces and they can out and we didn't even think out then it. so basically a story that is a mystery in the west coast. you're absolutely right about the reason these people are terrified or losing, you know, and not personally there. i do all of you and then who will listen to the greens in drug, you know, a regression where i call sensors. you know, she said when she came in ukraine, that these people going to be us and even go magazine, which completely supports them. now, the bro merritt, if you will, they wrote this was a lot, you know,
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these people died later. they most likely were killed by the, or they were actually down to victims of the board, exposed to say what you said was simply and why. and that's what you speak to, right? you know, so you know what the ways you're absolutely right. these people out there, you find out that they would you what this is a beauty ideological thing. and the fact that the european parliament, a russia sponsor of terrorism, doing something that even the writer stays, did it shows you that, well, no, get in with george here. it's not where did with ideology and in the european union a, that's what makes it. and that's what makes it so dangerous. you know, martin, one of the oddities of all of this year when we think of the sub stations that are being destroyed, the electricity grid, there's only one country in the world that can replace them. and it's not
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a nato country, it's actually russia. and there is a precedent for after 2014, when crimea returned to russia, main ukrainian, the care of officials, they cut off electricity to crimea, and russia had to solve for citizens, a tricity issue. and it was resolved, so there's no western technology, there's no magic bullet out there. there's nothing that can be done. it will take years. and they like, and like i point out all of this, a soviet era technology and it's not being produced in ukraine and certainly not in the nato country. your thoughts energy just keeps coming back to energy time and trying to get that, you know, so many times. and if we take a look at the big picture we need, when we use energy as a sort of measuring tool, you know, who is really when in this war, it's america, america is just cleaning up america, is selling gas to the europeans, 4 times, the price americans pay, you know, america is really flexing his muscles more and more,
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more than ever with european union countries. and they are quite happy to play that service. and i agree with you, they're cleaning up what they're doing. i don't know what the ratio is, but paying 4 times more for energy they used to get for russia that was relatively cheap. i don't know what the ratio is, but i'm sure it's the productivity is gone. maybe down inversely 4 times less productivity because of the high cost of the energy. so it's, it's a double where maybe you, american companies are cleaning up, but it's destroying the competitiveness of the european economy. go ahead. exactly . and this new bill, the inflation all crudely cool. the re, i mean, they really need to work on that. i mean, this is really we're in the european right now for the 1st time since this war started with the beginning to see real voices of concern. real complaints coming from brussels from the french government from the germans because it's
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a little after this rate act, the buttons putting now you know that just completely tips the competitiveness towards the americans even more and, you know, many top officials are asking the americans really aren't as you know, so this is a result of the ukraine and more, you know, 1st of all, i think there will be a division. at some point there is going to be a certain split between europe and his relationship with america. and for the, for the moment, but it seems to be in a comfortable position. he, there's no incentive from the americans whatsoever to end this war. they want it to go on forever, right. mark. and we have to go to a hard break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on some real estate with our tea. ah ah,
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lou needs to come to russian state total narrative. i've stayed on the most landscape div kinko's house lamps and up with 55 when okay, so 9 is too bad. must be the one else with we will van in the european union, the kremlin media machine. the state aren't russia today, and split ortiz spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with ah,
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ah ah, welcome at the cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter. well, this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah, we had a moment to continue with the discussion that i was having with martin eva martin really gave the type ology really quite well. and it's very interesting and it's not what media, western media, what you're reporting, essentially, you know, they use russia is the object of hatred, right? it's russia's fault, unprovoked attack. all of this kind of stuff here. everything started on february 24th of this year. nothing has talked about what happened to the over the last 8
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years, you know, with, with russia special military operation. the european union, nato is mobilized against russia. and the us comes and picks everybody's pockets and they continue to pick everyone's pockets. the productivity goes down and whose fault of is it? it's russian is a cherry on top of everything here. is we all agree, they want to keep this going. name the west. that is, they know that russia is not going to stop until it gets what it wants. not means. we have to go back to december 17 and look at those 2 documents that were sent to nato and to washington. they still are in effect gentlemen, nothing has changed. ok. so this is the gambit here. so and this is that you were when martin had to say that i have kind of tightened up. here is the narrative western audiences. if they were told it wouldn't even comprehend it. dema. yes, well, you're absolutely right. there are some suggestions are still in course,
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and it's interesting that the in the united states, i was fascinated by this article in the heel by bruce funding congress. i'm really the headlights congress and the green by was going it you know, a year course. the real reason why a roommate in february, they did not begin, you know, they did not started that they ever wasn't because natal kept expanding and your grade was becoming a defacto effectual spirit or nato. right. and here you see a little bit with with martin spain is right, right here that the united states. so it's been great. $100000000000.00, you know, support for your grade. was
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a review and no, no, no, no, no, no the man i got to push back against you pushing back more. that's not money. that's paper that's printed ok. that's debt. ok. it's not real. ok. it's ok. ok, so that, you know, but the other side is yet, this debt is enriching the arms company that is real for them. ok. but you know, the, when it gets that don't get away from the productivity issue here. because when you can take monetary policy at all, you want, ok, it's complicated, and it's political productivity is real. ok? it's real and how much it is something costs. go ahead. yeah, well, so the state is, in fact it did, we can in europe, in several ways a by basically making this warning ukraine thinking you,
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why is the war and you can continue because there is a 9th of states, right? nothing about your grade without a crate. right. well, i mean, the ukranian people, i kept hostage by their oh frank, i, petro, right. you're right, no responsible state. he reminds us that a come back to the pool in korea before another in 2014, about joining russia. 91 percent, a 91 percent premiums in favor of russia. go for the 83 percent. so the fevers, for example, in cash or 87 percent of the people are support. they're basically correct. they're all of them in don't pass for it's 98 percent because people suffer for 8 years in here. so it's like what the biggest, real so when you say, well the writing says nothing about complete without brilliant government.
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basically they are saying something, right? nothing about that hostage without its cap, right? so that will make war continue indefinitely. you're absolutely right about that. but this is only one of the ways in which are stages we can in europe are nice. this is a real with china. and you can only qual immediately while, and there is even more expenses in perspective. there's, you know, it's like, obviously the american elite will continue to promote american edge money around the world. what would release the sad comment about this is the weakness of european leads. ok. i mean, it's obvious for anyone to see that, you know, you know, martin, the, the interesting thing about this, as i said in my introduction, is that you know, the more arms and more arms. now the u. s. is going to pick up the budgetary obligations of ukraine in government, really with no oversight in auditing
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a recipe for absolute plunder. ok, but me, the longer this goes on, when i think this weekend, we're going to be going to see protests all across europe. is it the so this is the story about the conflict in ukraine is about the deterioration of living standards in europe. and because that's what i get more and more stories about the cost of energy and the cost of food. and there's going to be any diesel in the u. s. in 10 days. that that's how the store. it was. it wasn't designed that way, but that's how it's going. because the, if you look at american wars with its nato allies, afghanistan's, syria, iraq, libya, so those are all abstractions for western public schools. most of them couldn't find out where they were on the map. this contact ukraine is not an abstraction to western publics. and consumers now,
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and that's what i think that's what's going to be the pivot point in how the west will it in, in weeks, months pursue this conflict. go ahead learn. yeah. and i think so you have to remember that some, some of those notes are tax, particularly the one and show me love you not, not if i were illegal, they were actually, you know, clinton went ahead without the support of the united nations. totally legally, totally against it, but excuse me, international laws, but i think of your right to say the emphasis now will be on european citizens and how they cope with this winter. it's been very mile so far. we've had a few weeks of very, very mild weather, but when that starts to get worse, perhaps some point in december, and then the political dynamic will completely change. and i think that is being sentenced now by the european union and leaders like micron. we recently said, look, this gus arrangement we have with america, it's not really very friendly. you know, i mean these are allies and so it starts in this antagonism, this sort of baker's narrative is beginning and that is are directly linked to
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european suffering. so i think the energy issue, the, he told me to learn if i could jump in here and it's no coincidence that the north stream pipelines were destroyed because there's no attorney. there's no, you know, i mean, the big winner was america. and now the thing that was was planned in the longer term, you know, but if we talk about the longer term, i think it's important now to look at the look at the timeline and take a step back when congress, back $37000000000.00 a military a, the button is pushing unlikely. now the republicans has the house, it may will be watered down, it may be delayed, but, you know, the republican republican side is always banging on about transparency. and you know, he had the opportunity to create transparency tools. he didn't do that, so that is going to have a major impact on the ground in the ukraine. and i think the russians know that i think that played a longer game. and with the destruction of utilities, with the military 8 now dropping quite considerably, we will see
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a different ukraine war in the next few weeks, the next few months. and you know, where is europe and all this? you know, it has this puppet preposterous polymer in stroudsburg, which was why my ad was created one year after the you created itself, there was a man dashed his panic. oh, we don't have a democratic institution. what we're going to do. so the creative european palm at one year later as built on, it's the only parliament in the entire world. we don't have the authority to reverse draft legislation. think about that for a minute. you know, and what does it do? it just name cools, it just says, oh russia is a sponsored this estate, terrorism, you know, without sure the and piece are compensated well, it's a good, it's a good, good given it, it's a great number. yeah. you know, and i'm also going to look at the green impact of moving 100 kilometers every 2 weeks from brussels to stroudsburg, just to keep the french happy. you know, some of the study on this years ago, you know, the carbon footprint is just gigantic. so they have, oversee,
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is absolutely stunning and corruption rules and you know, the you is really standing by now and alone. this will continue, but you know where it will end. i just, i don't see the ukrainians being the winners in the let's of lemons. i see, i think this explains why the lens is starting to panic. now there's enough on the internet, whether we can believe it or not, that he has a cocaine addiction. very possibly even losing his mind when we looked at the last few months, the last few weeks, sorry, of the attack on the black sea for please, you know, which was pretty crazy in itself and, and his press statements which were released seconds afterwards. taking the high moral ground that we need to feed the starving africans and you know, supporting what's going on here. but they didn't expect the russians 2 days later to come back to dealer carry on, or even offer to give brain freeze for the africans. you know, so that was really bullshit. thought it was, you know, the attack component with that stray missile, which was actually a russian missile, but no one believes to put him to that is just completely out of the question. i'm
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pretty sure that came from his people as well. you know, a now more recently starting to sort of rang and big people. you know, british prime minister just flew in very recently. hilarious. you know, big, big bear hug. and cynex said, i've come with 50000000 pounds, 50000000 pounds. wow. you know, i mean, his, his cronies behind it must have been so good giggling a lunch at least. you know, it's very interesting because it takes real people that understand the military, how military and conventional military works. so when, when the washington post of the f t, they x number of millions of rounds and all that for us it's like, wow, like a big number. but then i'm told, well peter, let's like for today or amana miller 10. ok. and so they, they overwhelmed me with, you know, gaming little shiny things in front of you, but it has no meaning whatsoever. it's
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a virtue signaling that's all they're doing is virtually in 30 seconds. go ahead. before we finish, go ahead. i was watching that european powell in the sense this and it's, it's nice that sounds well. well, they adopted a notion, what in russia states wants to, and there is they basically create the growl for decoupling, for the cotton european economy, the russian, together with the department from the chinese economy. this will berry, you repeat it, this will just make it that, wow, deem a you and you have a buckle of dig ending of all time on crowds down here. bad. well, the don't we have a gentleman, i think my guess in medication here in moscow on i think our be worse for watching us here at our dc and next time. remember cross black roles. ah,
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my name is frank, i'm a retired from philadelphia. got in the movement in any age, 13 or 14. we were violent towards those people because we believe there were this race. we were here 1st. this is our country being part of that movement. i got your sense of power. when i felt powerless, we got attention when i felt visible and accepted when i talked to level life after, hey, is an organization that was founded by for a white supremacist in the us and canada. and they found each other. and they knew that they wanted to help other guys get out is 2 parts to getting out of a violent extremes with the 1st part of disengagement which is where you leave the social group. and then the next part is d. radicalization where belief systems audiology are removed. it was very impactful when someone finally came along with no fear, no judgement,
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you heard my story did not seem to challenge with ah, ah ukrainian nationalists don't look at it. it's just a politic. they consider themselves their own people and you might speak ukrainian, but if you're not a nationalist,
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you're not there people. you're less than people. and when you start to humanizing human beings like that, we treat animals better. we're at that we will not forget memorial and the grades right here are the greys of people that the ukranian army killed in 2014. these a civilians there over $200.00 victim. i can't think of a time. i haven't been under threat, but you know, that's just if this is what you deal with, what you do, it's, you know, that's part of part of life. i'm from boston, massachusetts. my wife from here in 2012, we moved to dom bus. i investigate some of the war crimes i've actually got

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