to russia, in relation to the frank crisis, the the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle may. 9th is one of the most important dates on the calendar for russians was on this day in 1945 fascism in europe was crushed. celebrating the end of this war is no longer i high priority in the west. in fact, there has been a long ongoing attempt to under state the roll. the soviet union played in defeating nazi germany,

the russ talking victory de, i'm joined by my guest, letting me go spinning provident. he is the chair of the department of lubbock, studies at brown university in virginia. we have james jeffers. he is a former us diplomat and a former advisor to us and a republican leadership and in bows. what we have andre solution co, he is a former ukrainian diplomat right, telling cross loc rolls in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciated. let me, let me go to you 1st because you know, you, you were born in the soviet union. you emigrated to the united states, but the calendar is the same. and both countries, essentially in the west, they celebrate the end of the war on may 8th, they celebrated on the 9th here in russia, just because of the, the signing of it. it ended up being the next day for the russians. so it was, there was no other reason than that, but um, it's is uh before the recording i, i told you how the city is all dressed up and there's a lot of anticipation. there's going to be parades. there's going to be all kinds

of things for young people and children. i mean it, it's really, truly spectacular. what you see and it's repeated all across the country. i will imagine my friend where you live, that's not the case. and it's absolutely not, and i are, you know, by good sort of, uh, sort of we had to rush into addition, likes to get together with my friends of the nines and the collect all our relative school software and friends. uh and i, and why is my friends uh, not on the russians. they say why, what's the deal? well, what, what is, what is it? well, this is what do we do? they, they, oh, cool. so basically the one that you gave is people who might kind of, you know, associate with as a for them, it's not, it's not a big deal. and from what i understand it was becoming less and less of a big deal. let's try that. you know, right after they say geez, or asian, or just that why the war as a, remember,

it was hardship and unbelievable. so international contribution, but as time went on, the whole thing was kind of replaced by hollywood is ation of history. and basically, yeah, that was why the dmv and fortunate city when americans and the integrated norman deal or whatever. and that was the validate. so that's, that's kind of the do that nice and hollywood slowly replaces it in concrete memory and categories. so abrasion, govern, please come and my ration these kinds of disappears. yeah, well, you know, a, tim, obviously we've had the hollywood ization of the conflict saving private ryan and things like that, which is all, all right. okay, that's fine. um, but i mean it's, it's, it's a lot of mirrors right. but it's worse because there's an intentional downplaying of the soviet contribution. i mean, the present, it's not, it just states just said a few days ago it was the headed states that primarily won the 1st and 2nd world war. well, you know, that's very trump. and in his mind,

it's about the 1st time he gets his re wrong, this map, i think it's so it's a wrong the most all the time. and that's very painful for where i live, because there is no family in this country in the russian federation that doesn't have a relative of a little past, died in or it was in captivity during that conflict. it is a very, very important unifying cultural, societal issue. but it is, it is being dismissed in the west. they just don't want to admit that the soviet union played a positive role because they equate the soviet union with russia. and obviously we have the context of the ukraine conflict today. go ahead, jim. yeah, peter, i, i think you're right, it is deliberate. i mean, i can't help but think back in the old days and the silver union, when a political figure was disgraced, they would airbrush them out of the pictures or out of the movie isn't the sort of sleep of his story with someone who could accurately predict the past, and then that's sort of where we are now, we're the political needs of the present,

a mean revising history to make it fit. and i think that's what our political leaders do is that, you know, because in the post cold war, another post co post cold war era, we have to justify this american hegemony. that means we did everything that was ever good in history that you mentioned on world war 2. but we're, we're one, frankly, our intrigues, i were probably prolonged that war and, and prevented the negotiated piece of by the end of it earlier and save millions of lives. well, what we've got, we've got to revise that one too, and even revise the history of the co work and how the cold war ended to coming from the western leaders to the soviet. then going to the russian leadership, which help help great, bring us to the conflict we have today. it's, it's a, it's really interesting because what we do is we, we just have the rewriting of history over and over again. there's so many re writes right now. it's hard to create that could keep track of them. andre, your ukranian and only and recently, up until recently ukraine celebrated very much like their russians. colleagues

there cause i cause it called colleagues and except for in the former soviet union, it was a, this, over of the entire, of a former soviet union has the ability or the interest in doing it. they will do it . but i mean, is the cleaning and how do you feel about it? because ukraine was part of the great victory and 1945 as well. yes, i want to congratulate everybody on the switch to day. this is a great victory for not just so you might just pressure and be great, but this was for the whole free, which is the army and the rational brought by cleaning out the time of the facts of the mass of the year. so congratulations to everybody, much of great britain. fathers bought one of the french on the 1st computer from one of the 2nd for your, from one book to prop. i've got to have a hipaa's. i told her she'll there least didn't live, but he's still going to this one and told me about this because

a great day for everybody who does so. but the good that's the will in the, for the destruction of this the, some ration by the west today, the political destruction trying to think of any of this project right. history of this is a total of this price for me, a really premium. and then for me to reprint, and so to list price by today's the keyword fee, which is basically underlying the support of the lots of the facilitating, the support allows us to be afraid it was, but that was all the nazi heroes and what, how far they're done with the bidding and the streets, and battery and the celebration of the victory, the many miles is just the space that my for and i don't want to. so i don't want hard positive this way. and that's why i just don't want to support this really the price of a i don't understand that this is the wrong way to go in history. the wrong path, leading to my talk to because there's a strong our history, the history we're, we're the has brought together

a victim. and that's what the west has to do. just want to undermine and rewrite the article or the previous or part of the victory. this, if we take the, with this victory, this sum of all of them inside us, they're gonna basically destroy the people. that's what they're doing and that's what is it, when destroying you, praying to destroy you bring out the people with taking away the withdrawal takes of the means of lives. the 2nd one or, or the reason why not how they call it was in our country. yeah. you know, invited me or also it's something i'm sure you've probably noticed is that even when i live back in the united states, in the late 19 ninety's, the new york review of books started this debate a completely ridiculous one. but they did none. the less that both the soviet union and nazi germany are responsible for the 2nd world war in europe. and that that mantra is only continued to this day. i mean, and this is making it into the, you know, the halls of academia that you know, they, they, they were equal culpability. go ahead, let me read course. this is

a false history. go ahead. yeah. it's gonna come naturally because they're showing what we already discussed, the ones you united said decide to. so it's a kid gemini and the idea logic of and all in all those views. so they have victors and the good guys and who are the best guys. ready the rest, so you know, the german, he's bad, there actually is bad silence, very few lives read. so then it's of, it was like a matter of technique and it's, so it's in the, you know, kind of unscrupulous historians will begin to push this kind of narrative that the whole of what was present but faded by our he, the, you know, style ribbons are all a more of those, you know, back and, and so on, so forth. so i'll do it. what lies behind it is a very unpleasant project which is not new for the way this is of the immunization immunization overall shot refusal to understand the country. it's concerns, it's history. so it is so the kind of you,

in long for end essentially as or as you're going through a lucian's or i since i wanted to find the way the options confronting this and juggling road. oh oh, and that's a germany. and that's a german you're trying to kind of catch up with you and friends in america and bullshit and fox libyans around mars, they said they were going to do it. just the great grab or i said the resources are, i should enjoy the rest of the people this way. so get through to customize it. just knowledge is the sort of carbonized that russia is it? what was in the l i o, o u. s. and it was kind of legitimate, you know, kind of a, l i o genuine, bought the whole thing. nobody wants to do their own america matters. and consequently, or i should begin to be pushed trust in the kind of, you know, the crazies equipment just kind of do the ends of the, almost like equivalent of, of hitler. and this has got a very unscrupulous and, and that's kind of view sided with some kind of maniacs and

a good email. but knowledge brody really has and bring it in that school textbooks embrace it and, and that's what school she wasn't alone. yeah. but jim, but if denying rushes role in the defeat of, of fascism in europe undermines or actually a gets props to the losing side. i mean, because it's, it's assuming that what russian did was wrong, which was it, which is absurd because it was, as vladimir pointed out, there was a collective thing. they were out. why? so we're allies and the soviet union. so there undermining the, the, the, the true ugliness of fascism in europe. i realize that i think the western allies, even then were somewhat reluctant allies of the soviet union as is bought him are point to, you know, we've, we've seen this, you know, this drive to the east, from the west on many, many occasions long before the sub union came into existence and really now continue after the silver unit seems to exist because of the reasons he suggests

that the west wants one way or the other by hook or by crook to seize those resources. pay for that matter. what's different about that in, in what trump is talking to zip big, literally all we're going to get are minutes on whatever resources happened to lie do for the part of your domains under kim. i agree, and then we're going to continue with this line of thought, gentlemen, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on victory in europe. 80 years on stay with our team . the, the, the, during the 2nd will pull underground power in the industry organizations in poland, occupied by german troops, as well as in the bordering regions of bella, ros were united into the so called home on

a trip to the center or the or the prospect just say it's because i use a blue screen time list and but the thing is i take this to the ship where they put you through this issue of shy sticker who mom a was the main organization that the poet issue was system, the switching against gym and occupation and soviet rule, others dominion army cuz i knew we were tenants. we need to level she plenty of the boys still exciting. and so he's going to put those on anything, isn't this, you know, that's most of the home on the countdown operations to destroy the nazis. but then switch to settling scores with soviet partisans and the civilian population that supported them. they have never bytes. it automatically over it. you destroy your hospitality today. well, i've been in the new dave, i bought it from my goal is to be a good product is on the new prospect is pretty liberal in agreement or just the booklet is devali. 16 those up. let me know 44. when you go to your belittle,

serious deal of when you have no heat. so process jimson. we generally look for use imaging to cheat anymore. so the welcome back to chrome stuck were all things are considered non peter isabel to mind you, but discussing victory day, the ok, let's go back to and today on 3 it was jim brought up a really, really interesting point in the 1st part of the program and i'd like to expand upon it, unfortunately, is it's already been mentioned in we have this hollywood is ation of the 2nd world war. unfortunately, i'm not caesar made kind of cool, which i find very, quite odious. but uh, you know, people like the uniforms and they're rely, alright, we got, we and stuff like that. but historically speaking, there, there is a, a lack of understanding and how russia sees in, in jim brought it up. i mean,

we had napoleon in his coalition of countries, invaded russia. we had the hitler and his coalition. and now we have a western coalition that is actually larger than what nazi germany had because it didn't have the united states involved in it. so we have, so from the russian perspective, we have sentries of the west invading russia. and the no wonder when a, the, the last time it was attempted, it was absolutely crushed, industry to berlin, that it be remembered. but there is no western perspective of how russia sees the threats coming from the west to this day a and today. yeah, we're the, today we see taught the continuation, again to destroy tried to destroy russia. tickets, resources is continuing from the west. and it's happening throughout hundreds of years prior to. ready and it's not, it's not stopping at today's, the west has joined with maddox. h. that's why it was

a joke because after that hold were to what a god of what's called the former. but there was a vendor, right? the former and actually assess the officers to work for the ca. what for nato? they were the ones who took the us, brought them and didn't have much due to coming to the joints, the governments of the, the asked for the so called you for the jasper, which was formed after world war 2 was for mostly out of the bank. the rates and the call operators of the mass of germany. that's like the situation that happened from the west today. and yeah, i never saw after world war to continue or show the was the cold war. then we see today the ukraine, especially what brought one before the special operation started by rushing you praying, the banning of the may not in the bombing of a so itself is the body of the also told about world war 2 words. every breath of those movies, the her, how think it goes to the next 8? sorry. what do you all, sir? yes, i promoting,

telling about so sometimes it's something new and better and we have people on the ground and older people even talking house was even better under lots of germany. the silly times because they saw how much propaganda was pulled into their hands from the to be here. this is what the reality is on the ground, the promotion for right, pushing into the autism and just touch safety training today. well, actually russia a, for the history that we did not do the job right then that's is the most i told this for what, sorry. well, i'm actually be well on today. i can tell you, there are a lot of people around me that say the job wasn't finished off, it needs to be finished off. ok. the that really anger that so many people have, you know, a lot of me are, you know, maybe i'm to said to mental, i was trained as a historian. i mean, this was a my, a tremendous momentous event. the signing the, the german, the nazi signing their surrender. and again, the eisenhower was, it was very, very,

um, um, i sure assured the russians that they would be a joint signing because of the contribution that the soviets had contributed to the war. i mean, this would be a moment for everybody to say, hey, let's step back. let's not be consumed by ukraine, by tariffs, and all of this isn't mobile. we can sit down and have a quiet in learning moment here. and the russians would very much welcome that, but know you have leaders in the european union that are being blackmailed and threatened if they come and celebrate in moscow. i mean what, what, what it kind of message does that send about defeating fascism hall's history? oh this, you know, kind of like is what, you know, what? 3 visiting, what do you remember when you moved? you mentioned the board an invasion after, you know, an important invasion bus in the border and was and forth on one side by the us on the other side. oh, oh, great bridge. and in the right is this to his daughter is a kind, isn't much bridge. and the got very,

very nervous about the russia there as a $100.00. if might move in europe, it might mess up our plans of them in the mean need them. and they do europe and asia and outbreak as on. so really breathing the game. instead of up to being a l i becomes arrival. the same thing happened of the 2nd world war rise up becoming the arrival united states that unbelievable to no risk, but they begin to organize this nato. ivan is ation with your average of bush, which for was was, you know, i was with no to keep rush. i was in germany down and it was like, you know, they got it again at the end of these on both sides and, well, unfortunately i am not, you know, i'm not happy to, to bring up with this concept. but they think it is, you know, a pretty, pretty just it, it goes, it leads right to the 2 separate russia from europe and from germany and the teacher. and so these 2 countries which are basically geographically very close, they could benefit from, from, from kind of working together. and they will actually recently, as very recently they begin to work together with always a good guess deals

a german at john into the lives of, you know, industrial, central europe. and that's, you know, then the brain comes along very, very handily. and again, is nate debris just in america instead, it just uses your brain as a wedge to separate russia from europe and they continue to lose and they will continue to look at that. you know, i hope that people in europe realize that they use and being play that together against the geographical historical cultural mutual history. there is a rich to keep russia out, germany down in unless that's an old indignation. yeah, but tim, that's why we don't have security in europe because russia is not an integral part of it. and that is the solution to europe's security problem is that is the solution to the ukraine. complex is the indivisibility of security for all. and that is something western powers will not agree to, they will not accept it. russia is a legitimate,

equal power. that's the problem. that is the problem. and there's what, 3 more points out the british have it at the heart of this. i mean, let's not forget the crimean we're episode as well. and unfortunately, the united states has stepped into those shoes. i think it early on the trumpet, but as tracing people are hopeful, the divided states can finally come around to beef friends or at least have a correct relationship with russia. and i think that's is increasingly likely. i'm sad to say, i mean i think the big steer and again, i hate to put this way. nicholas, actually the world is that there would be a rep, rosemont, between russia and germany in durham. and of course, in that sense being the core of western europe, and that terrifies the people who have this philosophy craddick view of the world that the c powered, the american or british sea power can dominate the world. and let's remember russia geographically isn't much weaker position that it was during the fully occupational, the russian empire or hitler's the base of the show union. and that it's western frontiers. then they were at that time that what we saw with a break up associated with kind of like

a super rustic task in terms of pushing rusher back from a defensible position. that's why people like we think he says, we need to craig, cuz if we get you kind of russia is no longer an empire is really no longer defensible states. and that's why we got to this war now. yeah, i mean on today we the, you know, we took it, i hear all the, you know, i'll watch podcast to do a lot of reading, you know, and they, they, the topic of european security is often mentioned very academic sometimes. but you know what i find relief and distressing is that? yeah, i think everybody should have security here. rush it was, there's hope for many's. the european the security will be sustained without russia . but without that, without security gives for a security for all ukraine. it ends up being the continuous victim here, and they don't care about ukraine. they want to inflict a defeat on russia. they don't care about you crying or it's people. of course, they never cared about you, frank. they never try to be uh,

they used to crane with the situation. and the claims darma griffin was sold out, probably here is a 30 or so when the parents were selling out step by step after the 1st my don revolutions, 2004, and then rapidly after 2014 the, to the work started out to the west of the united states because that's where the most of their money is. and that's where they wanted to be with symptoms of a lot of government officials are sort of like sites. and we can see where their sons and daughters are doing this for a living in washington, in miami and etc. so this isn't the process of this war, the kilometers of government, every grant itself does he care about his own people's homes, alexi in our, his government is the goal shooting, so call peace. there's a north net piece or anything else. they're looking for themselves. personal games in this conflict. there are also the people, so just the mattress of europe and the global and the united states. they don't care about it and added to that to the security your why?

the searching the fall apart, because russia, the searching was the 1st step for security in your process illegally, eastern german, 30400000 troops. the flesh missing germany were the 1st step for getting a piece of security guarantees for everybody. like states did not go forward or neither did i go forward with that low security steps and guarantees for here the state and their bases are still to date are in europe. so who it is, but what was the one who is the 2nd year up to date? russia, which left basically but brought down to the wall for the united states and the west will still have their army bases in europe today. you know, vladimir to finish up here. well the, the, this thing, they, the, the parade that will be on red, the red square. what the, what western leaders and in pundents, they don't want to see world leader standing next to vladimir putin because that

means that they're missed it. russia is isolated, is, is false. vladimir. yeah, there you event. so that's the message that one of the runaway, everybody who challenges our kind of control to get g. germany in the union. buller wall is a, per, i, is a desk, but is some kind of rewards the garage, which is, you know, the simplification of history. and again, attempt to throw that in front of the eyes, around and not to take the seats and not to take it's concerning shoes. but what is interesting when you're up is worried about themselves. they are, i do a go to balls of stage to born ask who's be volleyball, they fee is over asha and they then after that, oh yeah, we take it seriously, but do they go to russia and ask, are awesome people, how ordinary experience innovations and the west, the bags and the rest of the, you know, was on boarding and that should be considered to provide some concerns that i should be doing and see this thing. but, you know, today let's see, it is a,

requires you overhaul on the whole kind of j j. i believe you go to approach the history and i went away and i've seen a west and leave it as being the value for that, you know, used to be on. that's not that very positive. no, because we very rarely and this pressure on a positive is no, i want to waste all of you a victory day, 80 years on the the, the over the destruction of fascism in your gentlemen. thank you very much. i want to thank my guess gets in part of in providence muscle and in virginia. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. are the see you next time . remember across bottles the

the the victory day is russia's most sacred in church. national holiday ever grant, the rate on red square was a powerful symbol of the people's unity and the head of elizabeth millions. as a solemn reminder of the events cost of which peace was 180 years ago, after the defeat of nancy, germany, the victors, who threw full loan and brutally as fall into this historic victory marked and try him from these couple of stones the

the far as if the southern is see a decent from both as a is a country because you see when we'll have to put on, which would need to keep the keep this, which seldom across the i mean, it was as soon as possible because i, when i read this from me, you don't when one's a lot of this are ups, this label 0 thing, find me taking really commute them, get oil like plastic, you know you. so when you need the action, right hands, you walk into going on the right rule, guessing the world from the home to the middle east and the you a, what do we get to being to the military? industrial complex between you'd be about as india or in pakistan on his right.

them guys are in yemen, the us and iran rusher and ukraine were moving further and further away for when freedom finds it, nelson mandela said, let them be piece for all that. that'd be work red water and salt deferral. it's 31 years since nelson mandela's. an organization is president of south africa robberies or violence as the only means, depending upon the right system, backed by brittany, usa and israel mandela visited here in dubai. and i go to interview in here, but next week it will be the turn of donald trump is visit to this region, coinciding with not collab day, commemorating the 1948. that's the cleansing all of historic palestine. joining me now from jerusalem is the president of the jury's incentive and security and foreign affairs. he's also the co host of the bug cause i'm at least and inside his view and fullness equity general of the world. jewish congress. doctor dan duyka, pleasure to be with you option dan is being 5 years. no, much as out and then those 5 years clearly know a lot has happened and of course it just in the past week and people are watching

this. we don't know what's happening between india and pakistan, whether that's going to be even worse than it has been in the mid portion of this week. and because of, well, the seeing the global south, certainly the celebrations in moscow. the idea of anniversary of the victory of the nazis. but i think the main question then 1st off is what do you make of trump avoiding israel next week? he's coming here to devise no. going to israel had that is just off the trump uh, made a deal with them. so right, uh, the who is of human is a japanese papers, a donald trump said the us would stop in the bombing campaign against the rebels in yemen, in response to assurances from the uranian back group that it would hold attacks on ships. well, 1st we'll have some great to be with you. my 1st question to you is why, why are you? why do you believe what you read? don't believe what you read us and i mean you more than anyone else should know that. and we have to come above ground, we have to come above ground and smell the air and be very clear about what we're