tv [untitled] December 3, 2014 6:30am-7:01am PST
and light and industrial and it stayed the same, and it just changed to sal or sally to emphasize the arts and but it was still no residential, but the one change is that entertainment uses are permitted there now, and also in the wnuo which is the office district, which runs along towns and then also runs along 11th street to capture what is the, you know, the existing entertainment corridor that is there. and so, before, and as commissioner hyde mentioned when the task force is working on this plan, there is no such thing as an llp it exists in name. and it did kind of exist in concept, at some point as accessory entertainment, right? and so there were discussions by the point that i got involved we were actually talking about individual land use and where they are permitted and how they are going to be treated. and we did consider them at that time, but just as accessory entertainment and we also came down was that they
for the most part was treated like entertainment which is they are permitted south of harrison street with the exception of being fulsom street and because that street has a lot of established restaurants, and arts and types of uses where an llp, you know, would seem to fit in better. and it was permitted there, but the other districts north of harrison street ended up not being permitted for llp and that was the way that it was presented and that was the way that it was adopted and the way that is exist and it exists today. and you know, since that, since the adoption, i know that we had the discussions around that time as well. and just this issue was brought up at the planning commission and the board of supervisors and since that time, to my knowledge, we have not had a lot of discussion, and at the department about you know, any specific legislation or any specific changes, that would be proposed. and this is just up for discussion tonight and just it is good to discuss it first and
talk. but that is just kind of the background on, you know, the very high level background on the west soma plan and specifically it is how the llps were regarded in that plan and the ultimate rezoning, and planning code change. but i am happy to answer any questions that, you know, the commissioners may have. >> can you also just for, layman... >> sure. >> i don't know if you have the actual. >> zoning guide in front of you? >> but it talks about you know, each of the columns is obviously a different assumed, and can you talk about how, llps are treated within each? >> i apologize it should be bigger than 11 x 17. on there. but, this is general, and it is breaking down into the
residential uses and institution and retail and the arts and entertainment, and so under arts and entertainment, you have the arts activities in the district and even in the residential enklaifs, and nighttime entertainment as i mentioned only permitted in the office district, wmuo and sally, which is our arts, and basically our pdr district and then limited live performance, and you can see that it is not permitted in the wmeg which is north of harrison street and thes permitted in the wmuo and in the office district and it is permitted in sally and fulsom and the residential districts and the rcd runs along ninth and tenth street from essentially mission to harrison, and it is not permitted there. either. >> great. and we have a firm out too. >> sure. >> and i can put that down on the street. >> that i think it applies just
to the nighttime entertainment but not the llp; is that correct?? >> that is correct. >> and additional protection, again, the concept was north of harrison was primarily residential but there was also a recognition that south of harrison you have the existing housing and they were rezoned as such and any alley that occurred it created these 300 foot buffers where any within 200 feet of any residential enclave you can't have nighttime entertainment or 24-hour animal services like kennels even if the underlying zoning permits it. there is an overlay buffer to protect those enclaves. >> you are right it does not apply to the llp. >> so the llp. >> and so it will be permitted in that if the underlying zoning permits them.
>> so within the wmug, that is mixed use, general? >> yeah. >> it is similar to what it was there before, which is slr. and which is service. and light industrial and residential. >> yeah. >> i am courage and i was not part of the source and maybe commissioner hyde will answer this better, what was the rationale behind why the limited live was not permitted or should not be permitted in a wmug, given the mixed use and if not, fully residential and i think that, like you said, the they are trying to protect the residential. >> my understanding was again, harrison street was really kind of the dividing line for entertainment uses north of harrison it is really a focus on, you know, residential with some of the
ground floor . in the future that is what we are seeing and coming to light with a lot of projects right now between harrison and mission street and so, it is not and if it is less that the mug was left out and more, that full so many was included, right? and so because the base line was north of harrison street was kind of like no entertainment. and so it was like, and the section just for the llp, and because there was essentially already, it was kind of an established and a commercial corridor with a lot of restaurants and arts related types of uses. >> okay. >> it feels to me, and i have to say that i, i have had a lot of problems with this plan since the beginning that harrison seems like an arbitrary dividing line and most of the established places
are north of harrison, currently and if you explore what is in sally, and very few options, you have to basically create, a place of entertainment from the ground up. and my question is what if anything can you done to change it? >> well, any change would be over the legislation. as it is now is in the planning code and the zoning map. >> and the change to the planning, allows the other districts if you want to rezone in the specific property to allow them that would be, you know sh... >> either way it is legislative. >> what it feels to me is that it arbitrarily and at the time i am sure that the people were using the best information that they had. and given that this was a fairly new permit, i can understand that there was some concern around it, but now that we have the data that shows that this particular type of limited live, you know, limited live permit is not a liability.
and that there may be there are businesses that are going in that hey want to seek out the permit and it seems arbitrary to restrict the businesses in that area, i don't know. >> i see, commissioner hyde? >> commissioner? >> yeah, i mean, so, the reason that i brought this up is that it does seem, again, arbitrary that on the major thorough fairs where new businesses are being invested, that one of the things that the city has come up with to help them drive and to create a vibrant neighborhood, you know, limited it to only certain areas and although i do understand why
accelerated major entertainment is probably not necessarily good for the whole area. i really think that a discussion should be had and maybe around the idea of opening it up to the accessory permits. just because as cami has some statistics for us, that they are not permits that are causing the disruption or the mayhem that was considered at the time, and because we have had the people come to us and who have invested in businesses and not realized until afterwards, that there is no ability to have limited live there. just, you know, it seems a little unfair. in a way. on a major thorough fair. and insurance i believe that most major thorough fairs in business or business districts or business how do you say that?
>> nc districts or the neighborhood commercial districts tend to have limited live. >> all of the neighborhood commercial districts across the city, are permitted and the only one that is excluded is the rcd on ninth and tenth and i mean that rcd is kind of, right. >> i mean, that by definition and in the code it is a neighborhood commercial district, functionally it is not really, i mean, the plan call it a neighborhood, but it is regional, by definition so they don't treat it like a neighborhood, like everyone else does if there is polk or union or whatever. and so technically it is an nc district, and functionally it is not exactly, but you are correct, all of the other nc districts allow llps. >> and then i am just wondering like is it extensive code changing, to possibly offer
llps? >> the interesting thing is if you are amending one word or 1,000, the same process. >> right? and that is where, you know, you got to go through all of the process, no matter how much you are changing and that is the, that is the... >> and that is more, not necessarily, yeah you are, and really the amount of changes, really they don't require significant environmental review. and especially since they might, and i mean that if it is was simply something and i take the rcd and right now they don't allow the llp and the legislation and it would allow the llp, that by itself, would not require the environmental review. >> it would trigger the process. >> yeah, there has to be and the sponsor has to come from the supervisor or it has to come from the mayor, or it has to come from a department and it has to go through the planning commission and it has to go through the land use committee and the board of
supervisors and there say whole process there. and usually that tiny of a change, it is not done by itself and it is packaged with other things, not always. but usually, it is not, but, you know, as a whole, >> some of these things came on the before the planning commission voted on it and they were evaluating how different is this or how different is rcd from ncd, and those kinds of questions. you pay attention that this is a contentious process, and obviously what we are interested in is doing the best practice around the entertainment in san francisco. and as a city grows, where do they, and where does the entertainment go as more residents move here, where do they go? do we just crowd out the places that we have now, or what do we
do? so i think that i don't know, i don't feel good about, because you didn't come up, and you are not, the..., and you are not the emperor of the plan, but you have, shed some light on kind of the information that i think that people in the public are hearing about where there my be discrepancies and i know that april is here and so she might be able to tell us about the legislative steps that may or may not happen around this or where the supervisors stand, so thank you corey. >> good evening, commissioners, my name is april and i am with supervisor kim's office, thank you for having us here. and having staff reach out to us in regards to this hearing. and as everybody knows,
supervisor kim was the primary sponsor of the western soma plan and it is a community based plan and in our office, and we worked several years on the plan and in conjunction with the planning department and the community stake holders and we were particularly involved in the last several months of the plan where entertainment was a key issue that came up and we actually sponsored some amendments to the recommended plan to increase entertainment or to allow the entertainment or new entertainment on 11th street, for example, and a little bit, so, 11th street, between folsom and harrison and so, obviously the plan, as corey discussed was intended to promote and preserve the residential character of the soma in particular, and but it also, sought to preserve the historic and the cultural aspects of the western soma which entertainment is one of those
historic and cultural aspects of the plan and it has been about two years since the plan has passed and i think that it is an appropriate time to take a look at the questions of llp, again. and as you know, commission has now the information about who has applied for llps. and in particular, in this area, i understand that there is two applications for a limited live entertainment and permit and there is possibly others, that maybe this commission or commission staff has not necessarily tracked but there is an interest. so it will be good for us to see, kind of moving forward, that information if possible, to see that tracking of projects that may not have gone through the process of applying, because, you know, obviously it is not permitted just so that we understand what the demand is. and i think that we agree with the commission and with the city staff that llps provide a unique opportunity to pick-up sort the small businesses and
accessory entertainment use provides an opportunity for an increased draw to the business and promotes the local business seen and all of those that were in agreement with and we just want to make sure that, that by allowing llps in the conflict with one, or with the intent of the western soma plan. so, we would be laobing really to the commission, to provide recommendations as to where llps, would be most appropriate. you know, when is the conversation was happening around the limit td live permits and the creation of the plan, i think that what was allowed in particular, because entertainment is allowed south of harrison and now 11th street and you know, there is entertainment allowed in the plan, but llps was allowed in the neighborhood, commercial corridors city wide, and so
this and allowing them is consistent with that and so we are really looking at what are the other appropriate places for limited live entertainment and so, as it relates to the regional commercial corridors again we should look at how the commercial corridors are evolving. but i think that the inat the present time of the regional corridors was to have a place in the city that is different from neighborhood scales, and commercial and to allow, larger scale commercial. and i don't know necessarily, how that has been happening, or if adding entertainment might promote that in some way. and so i think that again, we are opened and we are really looking to the commission to help form those recommendations and then we asked the commission in developing the recommendations to reach out with the neighbors, and industry representatives, and businesses, along the corridor,
that would the corridor that would be impacted. >> yeah. >> this is great to hear, thank you for being opened to our recommendations, commissioner hyde did you have something to say? >> thanks for coming out tonight and, secondly, i do just want to say thank you for your office for indeed, taking entertainment into consideration, and helping on the 11th, and other places. because i do feel that your office has been very open and very helpful and i appreciate that continued work. so... >> great. >> commissioner moshoyannis? >> a quick question, i guess that this is directed to staff, is there a capacity for us to kind of assess the nature, like i don't want it create a problem if there isn't a problem and i think that the first step is surveying the businesses to find out, do you know that this permit exists, b, that, if it were available to you, would you apply for one? is there a way to go out and do
that like maybe we could use one of these? >> from the city hall to kind of do that survey work? i don't even know, but, i mean is there something. >> oewd. >> i think that vanhowden could speak to that and he was doing a little bit of fliering and about advertising the llp. and then i know for sure that the two that have been kind of waiting would definitely be interested in spreading the word. >> and they may know of the other neighbors and the other businesses that they talked to. >> and when nicholas was in the office, i know that there was an art gallery, that was looking for one, and i remember there were three or four other businesses that had looked at getting them and that is sort of where the conversation started for me. to move forward. so, i knew that there were a couple of galleries and again, i think that the thought was that everyone was going to go out and get an llp and we are
actually out there i believe, oewd is actually helping to try to get the people to have some more llps in the city. >> commissioner lee? >> so, the thing is, when i look at this map and i see folsom street in purple and there is not a chance to, an llp, and you know, these are all of the businesses that took a chance to folsom when there was no business and it is a shame that we could not give them the support to at least help their happy hours to keep going, because there is not very many spaces left that you can afford. and obviously you can go to the sally and do something from the ground up but who has a couple of million dollars? you know? and so if we can somehow help these businesses that are existing. >> well, pardon me if i am wrong, but folsom and ct allows the limited live, right? >> yes. >> and so would it..., a couple of things, and i think that it is one, the fct allowing the
limited live and so if folsom does and what it does not allow is the new entertainment uses and so that is also, it is kind of related. >> the purple part. >> a related question. >> and so, if i could, so just, cami was smart and she wrote it down and so that the brown, and the mug does not allow, the llc. >> okay. >> and the rcb does not allow the light blue, those two, i think were the conversation no one sort of discussing, and the rnds and they are in there and the nature. and but the brown and the light blue, commissioner lee are what the conversations. >> yeah, the purple and i have been corrected the purple is okay, and we are talking about the browns and light blues. >> but i do hear you voicing not to allow any nighttime
entertainment in the folsom and so i think that it is, and it is probably a planning nerd or a geek talk that understands this to the grain that you need to. but, but i think that what we need to talk about today and what we want to move forward with was the llp, you know, should there be a future plan in 2080. or whenever it may be, you know, that is when we will look at other parts of the code as well. >> correct. >> and just to be clear, i think that our office is open to speaking about and discussing where limited live entertainment permits could or would be allowed in the western soma i want to thank commissioner hyde and so i thank you for continuing to bring it to our office as well as president tan. >> thanks very much. >> great. >> thank you, april.
>> is there any other discussion? >> i will open it up to public comment. >> there is no action, so we will not be voting, ask is there any comment on the western soma plan, related to limited live for permits? >> mark renne and i want to put a historical perspective on this whole thing and a reality check, and on the one hand, south of harrison street you can do the entertainment but i have tried to put the (inaudible) which just won the rolling stone for the best entertainment venue in the building next to the post office on harrison, i think that is townson street could not be done because there is an oncalve there, and it basically takes out about a half to two-thirds of that, you can't
do entertainment and so that was, that is sort of a red hering and so the reality is, and i am going back to the 89 plan which i worked on and this plan. and this happened on 11th street some time in the 90s i believe and these people were very tired and what happened on the folsom and 11th and they were very militant and they basically were championed by ex-commissioner mico and it took a very, and from day one it took a very entertainment, and a slant, and i know ex-commissioner allen was on that and it is the quote entertainment expert and he basically had to get off and he was forced off and then you have scott, who took his place and he was basically kind of forced and marginalized and you have a whole city that is, much
higher density, than south of market and can do the llps but because of commissioner mico, decided that he did not want any entertainment in all of these areas, you can't do it and i think that you got to keep that in mind, and that south of market is sort of, this weird, since the mid 80s when the there was some controls put on in the 89 plan that basically down zoned the entire south of market in the entertainment and so now we are in 25, 30 years of no entertainment and what was the extreme most vibrant is now a waste land and it is a shame and i have lived on the enklaif since 89 and on howard and 8th since 76 and so i have seen it all it has been a down hill slide since the mid 80s thank you. >> thank you, any additional
public comment? >> we will move to item 6, permits. >> this is the basement that was originally heard here on november fourth and it was continued to allow for more neighborhood out reach and continued again and solarry is here, this is at 222 hyde street and it is called the basement and i know that tender loin station has been very involved in this particular issue and the captain is here to express the concerns of the neighborhood and i know that we do have folks here from unified as well and we did receive five letters of opposition in the office and four letters of support and they are included in your binder, and captain, has not, and officer, torres has not submitted any new conditions, because they will
tell you their reasons, but i did include in your binders the conditions that they submitted a month ago so that you have something with a jumping off point, >> thank you, and i want to say that it was on the lot in (inaudible) from 2005, and it was (inaudible) 2009 and the entertainment license and it is been from the place next to (inaudible) it was many bars and clubs and in the last five years it was club and so after the last hearing, i reached out to the police, and the captain, and the officer, that the captain's office and so, he really wanted me to reach out to the next and which is
(inaudible) we had a lively discussion of how to get the noise issues and so, our cost of our system and i have hired them and had a consultation with them and they, they told me some good suggestions about us and like the steel beams and we will form the steel beams and the walls and any like the (inaudible) so we don't have any like noise coming on the outside of the building and so i told the comment and indicated that i am going to contact with them and i passed out to the numbers, and i am going to reach out to them all of the time and i am going to
involve them. and from the lot only from this point, but from the point going forward from this point. and we have a lot of support, you know, coming in, and coming down at that meeting as well and we love and we actually the building in front of the space, and it is, you know, it is a bright light now and we had and a video camera and we are seeing in the street that works for the 49ers and he used to work in the temple nightclub and also, bruno nightclub and so he knows and it is great and he is friendly, and the clients and customers and in our building, and the resident who lives right above our dj, he already, he would not suppose and it was something to do with, and (inaudible) e-mail as well, and so i mean, we will... (inaudible) i am trying to do my best to make it mitigate any issues and noise complaints in the future and i am going to work with the neighbors and the police departments from going forward.
>> thank you. >> all right, thank you, i think that we probably have the questions for you. commissioners? any questions? >> all right. >> your security team and you have one or two on the weekends who is in charge. >> right now i am in charge of that but we are going to have an extra security person, when we will, and when we have a dj on the weekend and so at least we are going to have it, and on, i am going to consider and on the night clubs and so i think that that is, that is the what i am going to do. >> are you going to have one person who has more experience? >> yes. >> is there a supervisor? >> in other words, if the police come, who do they deal with? >> yes, we will have the supervisor on the week ends. yes. >> so what kind of training are you expecting out of this supervisor to have? >>