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tv   PBS News Hour  PBS  December 8, 2009 7:00pm-8:00pm EST

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captioning sponsed by macneil/lehrerroductions >> lehrer: good evening, i'm j lehrer. deadly bombings in baghdad kill more than 100 people. >> woodruff: and i'm jud odruff. on the pbs newour tonight, the ordinated attacks targeted govement sites. we get the latest from t iraqi capital. >> lehrer: also tonit, on afghanistan the u.s. command anthe top diplomat told congress the boost itroops will halt e taliban within a ye. >> woouff: meantime, britain marked its 100th cbat death in afghanistan this year the newshour margaret warner
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is in london. >> warner: pme minister gordon brown has pledgedo sendn additional 500 troops to afghanistan. but the war is incasingly unpopulahere. i'll have a special report from britain. >> lehrer: psident obama outled new stimulus and jobs proposals and he calleon americans to snd their way out recession. we'lhave a debate about his proposals. >> woodruff: and ray suaz continues our ries on the nation's economy. tonit, how ann arbor, michigan, is being helped by cockroach. >> sort of geiger counter und. >> exactly. >>t's coming from this here? >> exactly. >> lehrer: that's l coming up on tonht's pbs newshour. major funding for the pb newshours provided by: >> this ishe engine that coects abundant grain from the
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and with the ongoingupport of these stitutions and foundation and... thisrogram was made possible by the corporation for public brocasting. anby contributions to your pbs station from viewe like you. thank you. >> lehre a wave of bombings across baghdad killed at lst 127 iraqisoday. at least90 more were injured. thgovernment blamed al-qaeda and saddam hussein lalists. but therwas no immediate claim of respoibility. gwen ill has our coverage. >> ifill: at lea four separate car bombs rocked t iraqi capital in late morning. two of the strikesppeared to be suicide attks. the first targeted a pice patrol in thcity's dora district. the new locationf the finance
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mistry was also hit, as was a court complex, and judicial training institu. the worst was at the cous mplex, where a bomber plowed through a checkpoi and detonated a rload of explosives. the blast brought downarts of buildingand killed several judgesamong dozens of others. the attacks shattered a nth of relative calm. violence in aq has diminished over the last 18 mons and november saw the fewescivilian deaths sce the u.s. invasion in 2003. still, militants havcontinued to mou spectacular, mass- casualty strikes. in late october, bomngs outside threministries killed more than 150 peoplend in august, tacks on two other government targe killed 122. amid today'siolence, iraqi leaders announcelong-delayed parlmentary elections will take place on marc7. that's two mons later that originally plaed.
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>> ( anslated ): we promise the iraqi peop to hold good and honest electio that will meet tir demands and honor theiconfidence. >> ifill: but members ofrime minister nou al-maliki's ruli party said the surgents' mean to shake the publ's confidence. >> ( translated ): today's bloody explosions araimed to hinder theolitical process, specifically the electoral procs. >> ill: other lawmakers said iraqis are angry at the faile of their own forceto secure the cotry as the u.s. military dwdown continues. joining me from baghdad wh reports from iq for the chstian science monitor and global post,n international news website welcome. we he been through a period ofelative calm it seems in iraq. i wonder if today's attacks aren'the beginning of the end of that. >> well certaiy this is a ty that's on edge, gwen. everyone is expecting more violence in the n-up until the elecons in march now. we've seen that in aust.
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we've seen thain october with major bombings of ministries. this was kind of morof the same. the attacks were governmen institutions. in fact, two of th connected to t finance ministry and the justice ministry were bad in buildings that were tually moved after their major ministries we bombed rlier in the year. so this really is connected a lot of people think to underming the government, undeining faith in the security forces d a lot of people believe gredality influencing e election. ifill: that's what i was gog to ask next whether it's a coincince that these attacks should occur just as ty were announcing the date for these ections. >> probably not a cocidence but certainly e feeling is that it takes mo time than a coup of days to plan these kinds attacks. the cycle of what 've seen is actlly they've been about two months at a ti. now the have probably been in theorks and probably have beenitting in me car bomb facty somewhere waiting to
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beetonated and waiting to set out into the cit but that is one of thessues th iraqi security forces are grpling with. ey haven't been able to fully ack down on what they believe is al qaeda in iq on the car bomb facries, on insurgents who mht be creeng in. it's a parcularly tricky time athe u.s. prepares to withdraw. l in all things are pretty edgy here in baghd. >> ill: can we talk about these elections r a moment. the date was final set only after esident obama interved directly? >> he did intervene dictly. it was months of delay and then weeks of political wrangling. they thought they haa deal. you'll pbably remember that the parliant here actually passed an election law i november, but then fairly quicklit was vetoed by the nni prime minister. now ter that, that basically opened theoor for everyone else to say weeally didn't like that law muchither. so the kurdseld firm. ey said they would boycott the eltions. th pretty well stuck to their guns until
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last-minute interventiony president obama with a phone call tohe kurdish president in the nth barzi in which he said that he would support resoing some of these issu that the kurds have wanted resolved f years. th seems to have bken the log jam. what that mes though is that the most difficu work isn't really getting this elecon together. it's what haens after the election. >> ifill: arthere any worries that today's violee had signal the beginning of ramp-up ofiolence like this between now and the elecons? >> there are actually thos fears. the vernment has been sharinthat for quite a while. iraq in the streets have been bcing for that. they've expected vionce. they always expect violenc but they've become st of us to a lull now that the violence haseclined dramatically. what they're seeinthough are these real big high profile attas. d what seems to be an increase in crime that rlly do have people on edge. but certainly a coon theme today out there at one of th bomb sight silts that i waat was that people believeshis was political motivad.
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those who don't beeve it's al qaeda or thba'athists as the government tellshem beeve actually that it's political parties whare trying to in favor and trying to discredit otr parties ahead ofhe elections. the is a lot of cynicism out there. >> ifill: from baghdad jan arraf christian science monitor d global post. thank u for joining us. >> thank you. >> woodruff: and still to co on t pbs newshour, margaret warn reports from britain on falling public supportor the country's litary involvement in afghanistan. we look at president obama proposal to spend re on infrastrucre projects and on tax breaks for smallusinesses. and ray suarez has part two our patchwork nati series. tonit: how college towns are faring in the recessn. that's all ahead. but now, for some ofhe day's other headlines, oveto hari sreenivan in our newsroom. hari. >>ari: thanks, judy. pro-vernment militiamen in iran attacked anti-goverent otesters for a second day.
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theyhrew rocks and tear gas at several thousand unirsity students in tehran. mo than 200 people were arrested aft mass protests on monday in tehran and acrs the country. today, iran's p prosecutor demanded even tougr action. officials in india plan to charge a chicago m with helping tolan the terror attacks in mumbai la year. they said today ey're building e case for an indictment of david coleman heady. he's already facg charges in the u.s. it's alleged headley scoed out the hotelsnd a jewish cent that were targed in mumbai. 166 peop were killed in the siege. the first lethal injtion in the u.s.o use a single drug was carried out ohio today. kenneth biros, 51, was exeted this morning. he was convicted of murderg a woman in 199 and scattering r body parts in ohio and pennsylvania. state officials said thene- drug method would be les painfuthan a three-drug combination used in previous executions.
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the u.s. sene has turned back restrictionon abortion funding in the heah carol bill. the langua was similar to a provion already included in housversion of the bill. for now the sete measure allows insurance planso cover abortionbut not with federal funds. this decad this decade coulturn out to be thwarmest going back to 1850. that word ca today from the ad of the u.n. weather agenc he made those rerks at the conferce on climate change in copeagen, denmark. >> the decade 2000-2009 very likely to the warmest on cord. so, in other wds, this decade is going tbe warmer than the 19s, which itself were warmer than t 1980s and so on. so it isikely to be the warmest onecord. >> hari: t u.n. agency said only the u.s. and canada hav been having cool conditions than avera.
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an ely blizzard has moved to the u.s. midwe, in the region'sirst major storm of the season. the storm blasted westn states a day eaier. by today, ateast a foot of snow was eected to blanket rts of iowa, illinois, and wisconn. the arctic bla brought winds guing to 40 miles an hour. forecasters also wned flights woulbe delayed or canceled om chicago to denver. hureds of police officers rned out in tacoma, washingt today for a memoal service horing four of their fallen. they were shot and killed la moh at a coffee shop. later, police in seattle kled the suspected gunman. today, a processn of hundreds police cars moved from an a force base down reets lined by soer crowds. the merial service was held in the tacomaome. the u.s. govnment will pay americanndian tribes $3.4 billion to ttle a suit over royales. the de ends a 13-year lawsuit brought the tribes. theylaimed the interior departnt cheated them out of billions of dollars in o, gas and timberevenue dating back to 1887.
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the proposed settlemenmust be approvedy congress and a federajudge. wa street had a down day, over a new case of jitts about the glob economy. the dow jones industrialverage lost 104 pnts to close just below 1028 e nasdaq fell 16 points to cle a fraction under 2173. those are some of the day's adlines. i'll be back at thend of the broadct with a look at what you'll find on the new s newshour websi. but for now, back to jim. >> lehrer: hi. no three takes on the allied troop buildup in afgnistan. first, ithe u.s. congress, more testimony. congssional correspondent kwame holman begins our coverage. >> holn: hours before the hearings began in washingt, secretary of dense robert gategot the red carpet treatment in kabul. he was the first u. cabinet member to visit since present obama annound his new war strategy. but afghan president hamid karzaiuickly warned it might
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be fe years before afghanistan can handle i own security, and even then, only with outside nding. >> f a number of years, maybe for other 15 to 20 years afanistan will not be able to sustain a force of that nature and capability with s own resource >> holman: gatesid not dispute karzai but he eressed a desire to see the u.s. timetable play t at leasas well as planned. >> the realitys as the president has made clear iis our expeation that on a gradual conditionsased premise, thawe will reduce our forc after july 2011. >> holman: the u.s. rolen afghanistan coinued to be deted in washington, as well. here at e capitol, the top americ commander and the u.s. ambassadoro afghanistan said th now are united in
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supporting the new plan,espite earlier reports they disreed on the need for moreroops. ambassador karl eikenber had expressed misgivings about a surge, in a seriesf leaked caes to washington. but he told the house armed services committ he now endorseshe approach advocated by general stanley mcchrtal. >> i am unequically in support of ts mission, and i am exactly aligned wi general mcchrystal herto my right in mong forward now to vigorously implemt the assigned mission. >> holman: the gener said he, too, w confident in the president's new war plan, including e provision to start withdring in 18 months. but he also suggesteit could take lger. >> resul may come more quickly, and we y demonstrate progress towardseasurable objeives, but the sober fact is that there are no sver bullets. ultimate success will be t cumulative effect of susined pressure acrs multiple lines of opetion. >> holman: in respon, republicans rewed their skepticism.
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"buck" mckeon of californi asked if the jul2011 timetable would tie mcchryst's hands. >> do you feel tt you will ha the flexibility a year from now, decembeof 2010, to ask for addition forces if your asssment at that point points to those additionaforces need for success? >> i bieve i'll have the respsibility to give my best litary advice, whichever the direction the situion is gog. i do not anticate the requiremt to ask for additional forces. >> holn: on the other hand, some docrats questioned whether the troop increase actually would improve the siation in afghanistan. chellie pingree represts maine. >> in my onion, we've reached a security plateau where n tter how many troops we coit, how many dollars we spend, how manaid workers we send, or elections that we he
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or re- have infghanistan, we caot significantly improve the security situation >> holman: later, the two n crossed the catol to testify bere the senate's armed services comttee. meanwhile, "e new york times" reported the obama administration has putntense pressure opakistan to fight the talibaon its side of the boer. the port said the pakistan were warned last month that unless ty do more, the u.s. is ready to step up attac by drone airaft and resume ecial operations raids in pakistani rritory. >> lehre there is skepticism, as well as support, fromoth democrats anrepublicans in congre. we hear from two skeics now following r newshour intervws the last several days with administration ofcials advancing e president's program. mike pence, republican o indiana is aember of the foreign affaircommittee and hos the third spot in the house g.o. leadership. james mcgovern, decrat of masshusetts, has been a critic
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of the mcchrystal, n the president's an, from the beginning. congressmamcgovern, you remain opposedo sending 30,000 troops to afghanistan? >> i do. i think it's a mtake. i'm not quite re what the missn is. our enemy is al qaed they're in pakistan not afghanisn. we're ld that maybe there's 100 members al qaeda in afghistan. do wneed that many troops to after 100 members of al qaeda? you mentiod earlier on your show that secretary tes meetg with president karzai and president karzaiaying he expects to be there for at least five years. then he says he expes us to bankoll his security forces for thnext 15 to 20 years. this is a huge commitmt that don't believe is in our tional security interest. >> lehr: what general mcchrystal said today to the use committee that he ought that within a year he uld know whether or not at leaswe would know whether or not thtaliban has been ...
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the talibas progress has been thwarted. you don't buthat? >> ion't think anybody believes in a ar or a year-and-a-half 're going to significany drawback our trps. thadministration has spent the last year kind of bendg ov backwards telling people that there really isn'a timetable. its hard for me to see how u're going to train the number of ghan security forces given the fact that0% of theare ill literal. they can't read or writer can't d or subtract. to tin them in a significant way the next year, year-and-a-half. so ion't believe we're going to lve in a year-and-a-half. >> lehrer:ongressman pence, you have been estioning the ve idea of an 18-month withdrawal, t withdrawal deadlineut a target date to begin thwithdrawal. u still feel the same way? >> well, let me sa jim, first what i do ree with the president on. i think house republics like most americans appreciate the president making a decisn to
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respond to t call for reinforcements in the eld. after three nths of deliberations, the predent has essentially given neral mcchrystal, his n picked general r the theater in afghanistathe resources and the manpow that he says he eds to get the job done and come home safe. so we welcome thatnd we support e president's policy. i also think it was importt last week, jim, thathe president took some time a week ago at west pointo remind the amerin people whathe stakes are here. the prident reminded us that we were atcked from the al qaeda. and theihost the taliban from witn afghanistan and that really the secuty of thategion and the security ofhe world depends on our success there. my only hesitation-- and i think it the hesitation of many of my colleague s in congress-- is again is the ggestion of an artificial time line for withdral. you know, i understand
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th jim mcgorn is a very honorae guy and a respected colleague. we respefully disagreed on e last surge in iraq. i think we respectlly disagree on this surge. our concn is now that the president haput this arbitrary timetae to begin the process of withdrawal in julyf 2011 that we're going to see many democrats who oppose these of military force there as ty did in aq to try and impose legislatively arficial timebles on withdrawal and wel be opposing that very strongly. >> lehrer: what abou congressman govern's point that he ju made that he thinks ts is a meaningless target date. >> well, you know, has been encouraging since our heing before the foreign affrs committee lasteek some of thtestimony we heard today is that we're hearin both the secretary of defen, the secretary state and now general mcchrystalimself suggesting tt july, 2011, is
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not hard date for beginning to withdraw, that there's flexibility there. we welcome that. but i'm somebody that belies 's never a good idea to tell the enemy when y're going to it fighting on a battlefield. now that our military commanders arelarifying that this is a looser dat , you know, if jims right on that, then let'sust leave out these arbitrary time lines let's give our soldiers at they need to get the j done and comeome as soon as w can. >> lehrer: you would not support that, would yo congressman? >> ielieve we should have a exit strategy and a timetae. >> lehrer: a realtimtable. >> realtime table. you know, righnow we're stuck in a situation wheree armed and financed a government in afghanistan th is corrupt andncompetent. after eight years of ubank rollinthem and training their...he security forces, thbest we got from them was a rigged electio and a governme that is filled with corruption. that to me is acceptable.
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our al enemy is in pakistan. that'shere al qaeda is. al qaeda is not problem in ghanistan. and we are now involved in this issue trying to do some nation building in afghanistan. quite frankly we need to d more nation building bachere inhe united states. >> lehrer: congressm, let me ask you is. your opposion to this. is istrong enough that you would lead an effort to unfund this 30,000 troop sue? >> well,ere's what i believe we should do. i hope there would b bipartisan agreement on this this escation of 30,000 addition american forces, this is a bideal. and would think that it would be appropriate f the white housto make their request to cgress sooner rather than ter so that all of us in congress, bh crits and supporters of this escalation, n have a full debate and vote or down. as it stands rht now, this eslation is beginning. congress reallhas no role. we're ju sitting here tching this. we'll be asked to fu this war kind of in ae facto way come march or apri
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i don't think that's theight way to do th. >>ehrer: congressman pence, would you agree to that ki of debate? do you think that's a go thing? >> i thinkt would be a very good thing. i think the end of the day you would see congress, mae not jim and a few of his collgues but i think you would see a jority in congress support this effort to respond to geral mcchryst's request for reforcements. i do think as we werable to do in the last congre, i think you uld see a majority vote to oppose the impositn of any artificiatime lines. you know, jim mcgorn knows and jim you should kw, i'm somebody that ally believes in deliberation the ople's house. we would certainly welcome that. but there can be no staking here that an american success in afghastan is the impetive that must be the objective of this nation a
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in my judgme the president has madehe right decision in deciding to ploy reinforcements. we ought to support th thout the artificial time nes for withdrawal. we ought to pport it as strongly as we can. >> lehrer: quickly, gentmen, has a actical matter isn't th barn door already opened? some of these maris are going before christmas isn't this a moot issue, congressn mcgovern some. >> the troops are alrey going. i don't think congss is going to have a opportity to deliberate the way i thi we shou when it comes to issues of war. but, look at. we are ming a major finaial commitment. we are putting ouroung men and women 's lives arisk for an incompetentnd corrupt government. our enemy is in pakistan. al qaeda is our enemy. let's go after thead guys and not get mired downn a war in afghastan that quite frankly i think is mistan. it is costinus a great deal. >> lehrer: in word, congressman penc you digree with that basic premise of conessman
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mcgovern, right? >> i really do. again i think one of the bes thgs the president did last tuesday ght at west point was to remind thamerican peoplehat happened on that day in september o2001. i was re at the capitol that day. i tched the smoke rise from the pentagon. we were attack from afghanista and we must.. and i was there too. i want tgo after al qaeda. >> lehrer: all right. we'll leavit there. thank you bothn that note of digreement. >> tha you, jim. >> thank you. >> lehrer: and now, afgh war support, takthree. margaret warner reports from britain. >> warner: for½ years, this tranquil elish village, woton bassett, has embraced a mourul ritual. everfew weeks, the townspeople close their ops and offices to stand outside as theoffins of british soldiers killed in
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afghanistaare driven through town from a royal air force se nearby. anne bev helps organize the gatherings. >>ur tribute is purely for what that soldier has do. he's given his life for his country so a few ments of our times very little in comparon. >> warner: but local feengs about the afan war are more complicate it's in respect for the lad who lost their les. >> warner: y support the troo. do you supporthe war in afghantan? >> no, don't. very strongli wish, my person feelings, i wish they'd bring them all home. >> i think t people in wootton bassett are representati of a very widspread feeling, which is deep sympathy for t troops ana feeling actually of outrage on their behalf at is quite new in british polits. >> warr: "guardian" newspaper comnist jonathan freedland says british pubc opinion shiftedramatically against the war th year after the current missioin helmand province advertised as peacekeeping turned bloody. nearly 240 british sdiers have been kled, a far higher per- capita death rate than u.
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forces. >> thahad been presented to britain being a deployment that would happen without,n the words the defense cretary at the time, without shot being fired this would be a r with no human st. the simple fact at changed the debate in britain i thinon afghanistan waa matter of blood d lives lost. >> warr: a memorial in this quiet park in reing stands as a symbol of imperial btain's willingnesto fight and die overas in centuries past. it honora british force that fought an erwhelming afghan army 130 years ago near kandar and st some 300 men. >> warr: so the weight of britn's disastrous earlier wars in afghanistan hangheavy here. the question is:o the british people have the stomach fo another afgh campaign that will carve more nameon memorials ke this one?
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prime minister gordon own - who's sending 0 more troops to join the 9,000 the, says they must. hensists the afghan war will make britainafer. as long as three-quarters o the mosterious terroristlots against itain have links to those pakisti-afghan border areas, we would be failingn our duty if we did not worwith our allies tdeal with the problem where it stas. >> warner: his foreignecretary david milliband says briin can't defend ainst terrorism only at home. >> iyou want to avoid the other sidescoring goals or oring points, you don't just mass your defense the goal line. you have to actual get up the fid. >> warner: that's pring a hard sell ta british public that felt it was ed to about the tionale for the iraq war - n the subject of a publiinquiry. there re lots of cynical voices at london's outdoor market in petticoat ne. not one pers we spoke to supported the afgh war. >> my view on the war in afghanistan is, to blair took
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into a war on lies. we send our troops who ain even got a flak cket, don't even got proper boots, to wa let the liticians go out there and do exaly what our soldiers have got to with thequal factor in the dete here is a widespread view that british troops were nt to war without the protective armornd helicopterthey needed. >> there is a strong cse for concern about the way in whi our troops have been equippe its been a natiol shame in many ways. >> warner: retiredrmy col. richarkemp, who commanded british rces in afghanistan in 03 says the government badly under-funded the ay's equipment buet, until recent. without nceding the point, secretary milliband says the government is inveing more now. >>s the number of forces has risen and ashe job has chang because the insurgcy adopted new tactics, we've had to chge and upgrade our equipmt.
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>> warner: but kemp ys the upgrades an't coming fast enough. >> it's taken the british med forces a good six monthsr more to deploy a handful of mern helicopters fr iraq into afghanistan. if we'd had been operati at that kind ofpeed in 1940, we uldn't have won the battle of brain. >> warne many britons also strule with browns rationale thathe fighting in afghanistan will ease the threatf homegrown teorism. commuter sue jkins buys browns gument, but only up to a point. >> if they're helpinme go to work knong i'm going to get to work safety, that's illiant, but at the same time, u do wonders time goes on, is there another way? >> theeality is that not a single terrorist arrested in this country has had a links to afghanistan. >> warner: we met "new statman" magazine columnist mehdi hasan at the kin cross undergrounstop, site of the 2005 bombings perpetrated by
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british citizens opakistani origin. >> what gets people going re, especially the slightlmore hotheaded yoger members of the british muslim popation, especiallyrom pakistani communities, is foren wars. and th see on the news british troops banging dowdoors in the middle of the nit in helmand province in afghanistan, and that cancels out a the counter-extrism work you do at home. >> warner: voters hopi for a quick pull-out don't even gea hearing fromhe opposition. consertive party leader david cameron supports the afgn war, and made aighly publicized tr there his weekend. even in the electionoming up next year, sayshadow foreign minister davididington, the toes don't plan to make the war an iss. >> but we not going to be out scoring political pointsn afghanistan for the sake of . we've gotroops out in the field, what the soldiers want to see is the soldiers figing and giving tm united support with squabbling with each otr. >> warner: han sees a bit more political calcation than that. >> brish political leaders, like polical leaders across the world, don't want to lk
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weak on tional security. >> warner: president obama's plan for a quick sur, with a 2011 datto begin withdrawal, has been a gift to both paies facing voterasking when brith troops are coming home, freedland says. >> presidentbama has allowed em an easy way out of that question, which is, ll, were on a patthat leadsoward the exit, d that's where they want to be. >> wner: for the war-weary british public, that exicant co soon enough. >>oodruff: now we turn our attention to the u.s. onomy and to theuestion of creating jobs. unemoyment remains at 10% the highest level more than 25 yes and it was at the top of the agenda in waington today. ( applse ) >> woodruff:resident obama outlined new multi-billion-
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dollar plans today to cranup the economy with 10% of the workforce unemploy, and public discontent rising. >> for even though we have reduced the deluge of jolosses to a relative trickle, we e not yet creating jobs a pace to help all those falies who have been swept upn the flood. >> the presint said the nation must "spend our way out of ts recession" by cutti taxes to help small businesses grow, funng public works projects, and offeri incentives to ma homes more energy efficient. the monewould come from $200 billion still unspenin the government's finanal rescue program, the tar senate republicaleader mitch mcconnell critized the plan. >> tp was a loan. a an to be paid back and we know in fact that a mber of the banks are ying it back. under the law as understand it, y money paid back goes to the deficit.
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>> woodruff: the psident, in his spch, suggested reblicans helped create today's big defici. and he dmissed partisan critism of his spending plans. >> the are those who claim we have to choose betweenaying down our deficits on the one hand, and investing in job creation and economigrowth on e other. buthis is a lse choice. >> woodruff: sll, a top house publican, eric cantor of virginia, said his par simply believeshe president's ideas are wrong. >> that is not sething that we think woed back in january, nor do we lieve that it'll work again tay. you just can't snd money that we don't have and keep doi it. >>oodruff: in the meantime, a survey today by the "busins roundtab" found the number of major compans planning layoffs in theext six months outnumber those plning to hire. >> woodruff: we get me analysis of r own now about the presidens proposals and
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ether more should be done to spur jobreation. it comesrom paul krugman, profesr of economics a princeton unersity and a coluist for the new rk times. he wonhe nobel prize for econics last year. anbruce bartlett. he serd as an economic adviser in the reagan administrationnd in the treasury department during the george h.w. bush administration. he's aolumnist for forbes and writes a blog on econoc issues. his late book is "the new erican economy." thank you both for being wh us. paul krugman, toou first. you've been callinon the president for some timto do more to create js. what do you think of his proposals today? >> what i've been saying basically ishow me the ney. concept ally it kind of make sense. it's a bunch of ings that are ideas that i and other people have beendvocating. it iclearly a plan to sort of do jocreation on the eat. theye trying to leverage a limid amount funds to do a disproportiote amount of job creation. okay stuff.
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how big? if we're talking aut $60 women i don't kn, this is not going do it. if iis $200 billion, we're talkg at least something haway serious . >> woodruff: you're saying a little bit is ok but he should havdone still more. >> we don't know how mh he's doing, rig? read his speech. i listen to it. 's all general, conceptua stuff. we don'tave a number on what this is ing to be. that makes all t difference. 's the scale of the thing. it's not somethinghere you can sa.. the idea is good. it's a nice menu of stf. but are th adequately funded to do what we needo do, to al with this terrible unemployment pblem? >> woodruff: bruceartlett, what do you make of ? i did see the assoated press said it roughlmaybe relates to what coress is considerg. $170 billion. but whatev the price tag is, what do yothink of the apprch? well i'm an agnostic as far as the details of the prosals the president has put forward. i'm notness sarm opped to them.
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what i'm i'm owe supsed too, hower, is treating the turn money as a slushund that we can use for whever we feel like spending the money on if these proposals t presidenhas put forward are justified it oug to be handled in the normal apopriations process and not just rushed in to action simply because we've gotome money lying ound that we think we can spend. >> woodruf the president's argument, said words to the effect, we ought to take se of this ney that would have gone jt for the banks that we have still to spendnd put it on main street. what's wng with that? >> i just think it oug to be done through congress. i think the problem is the ople don't quite understand where this tarp moy came fr. the origin tarp program was like $700 billion. congress estimed that maybe lf of that money would be lo permanently. so that was the amnt that was actuly budgeted. about 50 billion. now it looks as ifhe money that will lost is only about $150 billion so you'
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got monethat you apropose rated that now ... appropriat that now is availabland that the original assumion was always that that money wld be used to pay down the deficit. i am concerned about t deficit. >> woodruff: i wt to come back to yoon some of the specifics th the president was suggesting. let me ask paul krugmaabout usinthe tarp money, the financial rescue mon, switching that moneyver to create jobs. >> well,ou know, there is money at was not expected to be there. it's available. i unrstand bruce's concern abouthe appropriations mechanism t you have to bear in mind we have an extrely dysfunctional ngress. we have whats really an ongoing economic emergency i mean it's t just what we'rnot creating jobs. the level unemployment we've got doing enormous damage. so i tnk the president is stified in reaching for whateverechanism he can. if he can say, you know,t really dsn't make a difference in tes of the econics, where it's funded from. if he n say, look, what
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're doing is redirecting fundand make it happen, then he needs tdo it. ultimately whawe have is a jobs crisis. action must taken. i think the parwork is relatively lesimportant at thisoint. >> woodruff: you're saying congress is dysfunctional. why not go ts route? >> i thought if we were faci thkind of crisis situation th we were when tarp and the original stimulus were enaed, that wld be one thing. but i dot think we're facing that. i thk we did enact the stimulus. the money. there's a lot of money stilto come from that in the pipeline. i thinwe've only spent about a fourth of it so far. the unemployment rate is coming down. think that there's a case for let's wait a ltle while. why not wait unt after the president submits hibudget in februar why ru to act this minute? it just, you get the feeling it's like you put on aold jack and found a $20 in your pocket that yoforgot about. you feel like thiss free money just spend. i'm worried about that. >> can i just say i violently disagreeith that.
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you masay it's not a crisis situation. you know, we have long-term unemploynt is continuing to rise. peop's savings are being exhausted. young pele are facing the prospe of graduating from college into a dismal bor market. know from a lot of evidence that that will destroyheir earnings prospects not jt for a ar or two but for decade to say let's wait. we're pretty surthat we're not going to get aeally good bounce outf what's left in the stimulus. the peak impact on t economy's grow rate is probably alrea behind us. to say, well, let's ju wait and see. at's easy to say if you have a job, if you're, you knowif you're a person well establisd in his life's reer. but we're suffering enormous rm to the nation's future by not acting now. >> woodruff: what about that >> i aconcerned about unemployment, but ep in mind that the stimulus, original stimulus program that obama's advisors always id would have its peak impact eight
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quarte after its enactment. so they themselveslways said that the money was goi to have its most important pact next year. lot of the stuff that has high iact is things like public worksrograms which the presidenwould fund some more o but it's not clear to me tha there's worthwhile things ou there to be funded that aren already ing funded. you know? >> i mean there's to. we know thathe stimulus original was low-ball. was below what even the administration's only economist ought was appropate. we now have, i don'tnow what they were saying then. buwhat they say now is that the peakmpact on jobs is about the mile of this coming year. thathere is a widespread fear. lot of people, you know, independent business economis are worried that as the stimul fades out, we may be heading for a renewed cession, a double dip. sohe time is wasting. if we sit and don't do anythingwe could be facing a very, ry nasty economy by
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the me we finally get around to doing something >> woodruff: you don agree with that? >> i don't tnk there's a consens by any means that we're goininto a double-dip or anything likehat. the lastime i checked the consensus foreca, economists were lookingt 2.7% real growth next year wch is pretty good. i'm just... one of t things that concerns me is the idea th the adminiration always sa the stimulus is going to ke care of itself as far as the buet is concerned. if we ma these things kind of sempermanent, i worry about thdeficit. >> woodruff:aul krugman let me come ck to you on this ice tag for this jobs plan. i mentioned earlier the associated press through o a number omaybe $170 billion roughly matchinghat congress considering. if that's how much mon it is and if iis what the president described today, infrastrture, spending, tax edits, businesses, what do you think? >>ell, it's way short of what i would like to see. i meanf i could do it. if i thought it could be
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passed through congress, would call for mucmore. i meane are looking, bruce mentioned consensus focast. basically almost eveone is excting unkbloim to remain at levels that wwould have considered total disastrous, unacceptable not just rough next year but for several years to com we're looking at really depressed economy. the kind of mber that if it really is $170 billionyou know, they're doing stf that ght give a fairly big bang for the buck in job creation but it will still lee unemployment almost surely above 8% at the end ofext yearalmost surely above 7% at the end of 2011. those e not things we should be accepting. we should be n saying, "well, that all we can do. we'vgot arbitrary limits set by congressionalotions of what's responsle." 're just not doing enough. i'm much more artened at $170 billion tn some of the numbers i've hrd earlier th afternoon which may or may not ve been right. it's not nearly bienough.
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>> woouff: if you had to put a price tag on whayou think e government should do, what would it be? >> as said before i think we've chb enough. we ought to wait and seehat happens. i just don't think tt the case for rusng forward in a crisis situation with a lot more moneyight now is quite justified. i think we can wait a litt while, a couple months. >>oodruff: bruce bartlett, paul kgman, gentlemen, thank you both. >> lehrer:inally tonight, tchwork nation, our on-air a online collaboraon with the chriian science monitor. this week, ray suarez is reporting on howhe recession is aecting different types of communities across t united states. tonight, he reports from wha the patchwork nationroject calls a "campus ancareer center" the college townf ann arbor, michiga >> suarez: let's say wanted to take y to a city with a brant downtown. cutting edge information technology incubator, lled with smart young entrepreurs.
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and a deli packewith foodies waitinto buy $40 cheese. you might be surpred to find yourself in anarbor, michigan. the citys like a life prerver, floating in a state whose economy has be sinking for a decade. michigan ihome to the nation's highest employment rate, 30% in detroit, ana full-blown collse of its manufacturing econy. but, ann arb, built around the universityf michigan campus is--literally--buzzing with activity. >>that's not a neun, is it? >> suarez: in the bament of a non-deript office builng, greg gage antim marzullo are nkering with a machine that records the neuralctivity of a cockroach's g. so this, this that i hearing, this st of geiger counter sound. >> yeah, ectly. >> suarez:ts coming from this little leg here? >> exactly. what we have here in our hds, these are thuh cockroaches wee using. >> suare gage and marzullo, an engineer and a neurobiolist,
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teamed up as backyard brai, to build inexpensive equipmt for students tmeasure electrical tivity in nerve cells. they hope theiinvention will soon be used in highchool biology clses across the country. they are among a gup of some thirty studentntrepreneurs who make utech arb, an incubator, funded partly by the uversity of michigan,or students and recentraduates, who want to turn their classroom procts into businesses. although tech arb open just this summer, some of its fir, like mobiata, ich makes travel plications for iphones, are already making money. >> we're on target to over a million revenue for the first year. >> suarez: venture citalist marc weiser d u.m. professor thomas zurbuchen startedech arb with the idea that michin needs more homegrown entrepreneurs to propethe state's economy. >> if michigan is ing to
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reinvent itself, its goingo start trying to diversify oursels and reinvent ourselves acro the board and that takes a change of mindset and thbest place to change that mindset is within a unersity environmenwhere you've got ung minds who are eager, who have an opportuny in front of th, and they're still looking forwd, not looking backwar. >> what we wt to be at the university is a placthat is really ahange agent in our envinment. suarez: in a speech to students andaculty in october, universityresident mary sue coleman sa u.m. is capitaling on the economic downtu. >> just as we arrecruiting great scholars when othe univerties have all but shutred their employment office we are moving forward with a research expansiounlike any her. >> srez: coleman points to the pfizer research and velopment campus in ann arbor. when the pharmaceuticagiant left town, so did 2,500 gh- payi jobs, along with an annual $4 million in tax renue for the city. when no commercial buyer w
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interested, the univsity bought the 174 acre si. it's counter intuitive in ugh times to maksuch an audacious play, to spend that kind of money. wee not talking about a million or two, it's a b, big purcha. >> yes, well, it was $10 millio let meive you a relative value he. to build that kind olab space costs $600 a square fo. we g it for less than $50 a square foot, so for ust was a huge bargain. wee making the investments at a good price that we belie is going to be annormous return. >> suarez: colan's betting she can fill the labpace by attracting private companiesnd non-profits loing to partner with the unirsity. ann arbor s already captured more than $100 mlion in federal stimulus fds for research io products like new car batterie acro the country, cities like ann arbor, homes to bipublic universities, e well
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positioned to surve and thrive evenuring economic downturns. they bring itens of thousands of students, all bringing th them, dollars rned, saved and rrowed in other places, to b spent right here >> this an historic district. >>uarez: ann arbor's mayor, john hieftjesees his job as king sure the city remains a desirable place to live. if it is, he says, talented researchers, along with thei ouof-state dollars will continue to come to the university and sete their famili in ann arbor. >> people who are ing this type of search have the world tohoose from. we need maintain a very high quality of lifin our city to be able to aract the, frankly the brilliant people that we need to, to keep things ving forward. >> suarez: one araction is a highoncentration of gourmet food eaties. and no vit to ann arbor is complete without stop at zingerman's deli, a cal institution r the past 27 years. a franand kathy ½ italian sub
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can i have thearge please? en in the midst of a recessi people still flo here and shell t as much as $16 for a sandwich. >> when ople do spend their money they want to spend ion somethinreally good. >> srez: a simple enough formula. zingern's co-founders ari weinzwg and paul saginaw concede, the recession hasit the bottom line. but they're stilhiring new peopleand rolling out new product lines. >> so are we impacted? absotely. do we gout and make a living anyway? absoluly. >> suare zingermans, which has athered tough times before, has grown to a group of 11 distct businesses, with 34 million dollars in annua revenue - and mo than 500 employees. it wouldave been easy to begin moving pies of a growing siness to cheaper parts of t countr or to franchise. but weinzweig and sagiw have stuck to tir original vision statent. >>nd in that vision among
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other things it specifical says that we aren't gog to en anything outside the ann arboarea. >> suarez: mayor heeft says ann arbor aps the benefits of that fierce lolty. but, he alsoarns that succesul local businesses can only buoy the city's enomy for soong. >> the tide that is eeping through thstate, if somehow th wave doesn't turn around 5 years fromow, eventually it'll just wear us dow so, it's going tbe difficult but will, we will certainly be doing our best to me sure th we stay above that wave. >> suarez: still, campusnd career centersike ann arbor are poised to prosr once an economic recery does take hold, says dante cnni, director of e patchwork nation project. >> they're riding t the recession beer, but i also think in the lonrun, once we get past t recession, we're still gointo have a good 20 years of kind of sortinghrough a bigger economic restructing we're going have to do in the country and these places are kind owell positioned to kind of re above that. >>uarez: and keep the campus and career cnties attractive
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to coming genetions of highly educated, highly skilled workers, wh very portable skls. how farmers are fari in the recession. >> woodruff: tomorrow y reports from arica's heartland how farmers are faring in t recession. >> lehrer: again, the mar developments othe day. a wave obombings across ghdad killed at least 127 iraqis. at least 390 more were iured. afan president karzai said his government might nd at least five yrs to take over all security. and the u.s.ommander in afghistan, general stanley mcchrystal, said he thinks he cabegin withdrawing u.s. forces in 2011, without asking for more. judy. >>oodruff: jim, the newshour contues now online. for a preview of what yoll fi this evening on our brand new website. back to harireenivasan in our newsroom. hari. >>ari: judy, on our web site today we've given ecomic correspondenpaul solman's making sense series makeover. u can watch a preview of his upcoming story about older workers in seah of jobs.
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and ask paul questions abo the recession. e president's plan for creating jobor other economic topi on your mind. ray suarez has twoideo postcards fr ann arbor, michigan one on zingerman's deli and e other on the re of digital mea. and jeffrey brown's art beat bl our correspondents pick their favote books, movies and performances of 2009. all of that, and our n blog of ne and insight it'called 'the rundo', and we update it throughout the day. you can find it all judy. >> woodruff: a that's the newshour foronight. i'm judy woodrf. jim. >> lehrer: thanks, judy. we'll see you on-le and again here tomorrow evenin i'm jim lehrer. ank you and good night. major funding for the pbs newshour is providedy:
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