tv Democracy Now WHUT September 24, 2013 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT
they didn't connect him to the ap disclosures until after they secretly obtained a trove of phone logs from ap reporters and what the news agency's president termed a massive and unprecedented intrusion involving offices were more than 100 journalists work. donald sachtleben's prosecution is the age related to the leagues under obama. before his presidency, there are only three such cases in all of u.s. history. iran's foreign minister will meet this week with diplomats from other countries including john kerry. they will discuss iran's disputed nuclear program. it is expected to mark the highest level in person meeting of the -- between representatives since the 1979 iranian revolution. announced theon plan on monday after meeting with the iranian foreign minister. issuesmber of important that focus on the nuclear issue.
we had a good and constructive discussion. the foreign minister joined the meeting later this week, which i will be chairing, in order to have a short discussion. we have agreed that he and i will meet with our teams in geneva in october. click the white house has said it's open to a meeting between the iranian president hassan rouhani and president obama, both of whom are addressing the u n assembly meeting today. banned all court has activities at the muslim brotherhood and its spinoff groups and ordered its assets to be seized. the group has 10 days to appeal the ban. it comes as part of the crackdown on supporters of ousted president morsi by the military backed government that is in some 1000 killed in 2000 people arrested, including many of the brotherhood leaders. the core issue the injunction after lawyers for the leftist
party accused the muslim brotherhood of terrorism. the group -- the brotherhood has been banned for most of its 85 your history. u.s. military says it will stop reporting the number of prisoners on hunger strike at guantanamo bay after its official tally has dropped to just 19 prisoners. 18 of the prisoners are listed for force-feeding with nasal tubes. the hunger strike against indefinite detention began in february. at its peak, the military counted 106 participants, while christer lawyer said the number was higher, with nearly all 166 prisoners taking part. the strike forced president obama to publicly address his failure to deliver in a promise to close guantánamo. two prisoners were moved to algeria the first transfer out of guantanamo nearly a year, last month. chiquita companies asking a federal appeals court to dismiss lawsuits brought against it by thousands of colombians who hold the company responsible for the murders of their loved ones at the hands of their militaries.
chiquita pleaded guilty in 2000 72 giving funds to the united states offense forces of colombia, known as the auc, a right wing: military alliance supported by top leaders and blamed for giving tens of thousands of people, most of them civilians, beginning in the light 1990s. the supreme court limiting the ability of people outside the u.s. to sue corporations for human rights abuses in u.s. courts. he was attorney general eric holder is the former general counsel of chiquita. prior to joining the obama administration, he represented the company and lawsuits related to chiquita's dealings in columbia. a member of the russian feminist punk group pussy riot has launched a hunger strike to protest harsh conditions and a more jovian penal colony where she is serving a two-year sentence for protesting russian leader vladimir putin and said a moscow cathedral. in an open letter, not jack
describes "slavery like conditions" including beatings carried out with the approval of prison officials and sewing work shifts that last 17 hours. not he is husband said she has also faced death threats. >> in the last several weeks, she tried to change it from inside the prison but obviously, she understood this was impossible and it led to [indiscernible] >> nadia is one of two members of pussy riot now i'm penal colonies further protest in 2011 when they danced to get putin out. the second member staged an 11- day hunger strike earlier this year. in germany, angela merkel is moving to form a new coalition government after winning a third term as chancellor.
she is been criticized for pushing harsh austerity policies that have sparked mass protests in countries across europe, including greece, spain, and ireland. in the u.s., the internal revenue service official who became the focus of the scandal over the targeting of political groups has resigned. lois lerner was reportedly set to be ousted by an internal review board. she came under fire from republicans earlier this year for heading a division they give extra scrutiny to put -- political groups, particularly those tied to right-wing causes. the family of a 28-year-old african college student shot dead by new york city police last year has filed a federal law rights lawsuit seeking changes in how police responded people with mental health issues. according to the lawsuit, mohamed bah was shot at least eight times in his own home in harlem after his mother called 911 seeking an ambulance to bring her son to the hospital because he seemed depressed. while mohamed bah assisted he was fine and asked police to
leave, they allegedly yelled at him over a. of hours, taunted him, kicked his door, and eventually force the door open. , fired a thebah back and then fatally shot him. police later accused mohamed bah a stabbing to officers. the lawsuit seeks a shift in nypd policies after "long series of wrongful death incidents" involving people with emotional disturbances. the suit was filed by the same lawyers who represent the family kenneththat -- chamberlain who was shot dead in his own home by police in his home after accidentally activating his medical alert pendant. you can go to democracynow.org to see our extensive coverage of the chamberlain case. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. leaders, including president obama, are gathering this week here in new york for the united nations general
assembly. on monday, i had a chance to sit down with ecuador's foreign at ther ricardo patiño united nations. ecuador has been at the center of several major international stories in recent years. granted ecuador wikileaks founder julian assange asylum. he has spent more than merely ecuadorian embassy in london. over the summer, ecuador played a role in the drama surrounding national security agency leaker edward snowden and his attempt to secure political asylum. the center ofo at a closely watched environmental legal battle. between 1964 1990, texaco drilled for oil in the ecuadorian amazon and dumped as much as 18.5 billion gallons of highly toxic waste sludge into the rain forest. the waste contaminated the streams and rivers used by local people for drinking, bathing, and fishing. past two decades, there's been a legal battle over the cleanup. in 2011, and a gregorian court
order the oil giant chevron, which acquired texaco in 2011, to pay $19 billion to indigenous and rule ecuadorians. the chevron has refused to pay. last week, chevron was dealt a partial victory with an international arbitration panel based at the hague delivered an interim ruling questioning the validity of the 2011 verdict. the arbitration panel claimed the lawsuit against chevron lack a legitimate legal foundation because ecuador had released texaco of all potential liability back in the 1990s, they said. ecuador has rejected the findings saying indigenous plaintiffs should not be precluded from suing chevron. yesterday, i sat down with ecuadorian foreign minister and i began by asking him to explain this latest twist in the chevron saga. has issued some
decisions. thatf those decisions is ecuador, of course, never sued , butt and we chevrontexaco could be sued by individuals for the impact on those individuals, and not for impacts on collectives. that has toomething be looked at further, but the government of ecuador considers that the court of arbitration lacks jurisdiction. and that this bilateral investment treatment is not
available retroactively. so just to conclude the issue of chevrontexaco, it is important to note that chevron has been millions of dollars on a campaign to discredit the ecuadorian government, arguing there were problems with the legal process. if that is the case, then they need to address those as such in the ecuadorian legal system. but one of the things they argue they cleaned up after devastating the amazon and they .idn't leave anything amiss
chevrontexaco argues that any that is still fail is -- visible wasn't their fault and corresponds to the ecuadorian government to address. agoident correa a few days when to an area where chevrontexaco was operating in the president put his hand in the toxic waste pit that chevrontexaco left, and raised his oil-stained hand up to show the world how chevrontexaco has destroyed the ecuadorian amazon, and did not use the cleanup methodology that were available mitigate or even
avoid environmental damages. so chevrontexaco didn't care at all about the destruction of the environment that it caused, and that is why we are now inviting the world to come to the ecuadorian amazon and see for themselves the destruction that caused.exaco has even though texaco left the country in 1992, these damages .re still very much evident we have no interest in taking weal action in this regard, simply want to show the world they are lying. >> ecuadoran foreign minister ricardo patiño. after the break, we talk about ecuador's new plan to drill for oil in the amazon rain forest.
>> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we continue our conversation with ecuador's foreign minister ricardo patiño. i interviewed him monday at the permanent mission of ecuador to the united nations. we discussed the united nations general simply meeting and why ecuadorian president correa isn't attending, as well as the plight of wikileaks founder julian assange who has spent more than 450 days in the
ecuadorian embassy in london. we also talked about the health of cuba's revolutionary leader fidel castro in the legacy of venezuelan president hugo chavez. first, i asked the foreign minister why ecuador recently dropped a plan to preserve large areas of the amazon rain forest from oil drilling by having wealthy countries pay them not to drill. president correa said the plan to say parts of the yes in the national park and not attracted sufficient funding. unesco has said it is a world biosphere reserve because it contains 100,000 species of animals, many of which are not found anywhere else in the world. ,nvironmentalists vandana shiva naomi klein, james hansen and others recently wrote an open letter to correa president forea, asking him to not sake the initiative. the letter read in part --
say,does the initiative basically? it says, well, we would like to preserve the extraordinary biodiversity on the surface of yasuni and that we want to exploit the oil in the subsurface, that is to say, underground, and that we also to avoid drilling and selling and burning this oil and thus avoid polluting the atmosphere. the initiative said the following, the ecuadorian government is willing to of the resources that this oil could generate for
ecuador. resources that we need. ecuador is not a rich country. resources for its development. there is still quite a lot of poverty. in the lastanged six years. a lot has been improved, but we need to work quickly to achieve even better conditions and we need these resources. all over the world, natural resources are being exploited without a great deal of concern about the impact of that exploitation. andwe appeal to the world we said we are willing to income that% of the could potentially be generated, contributeld has to
appeals and appeals and not seen an echo to our appeal, ecuador decided to exploit the oil. without affecting the surface of yasuni. this is very important. will have some impact, but it will be minimal. criteria that were expressed in that open letter. itthe people who signed could raise the awareness of the [indiscernible] unfortunately, we did not achieve what we have proposed
and maybe there are other issues the world is more concerned about or interested in. the world spends $2 billion in or $2 trillion, and the rich countries and companies did not want to contribute to the fund for yasuni. even in very rich, wealthy, and countries, itean was the local authorities that contributed to the fund, but not the federal governments and
the world has other priorities, but we also need to try and thatnate the miseries people are suffering in ecuador. there are a lot of people who still die from intestinal illness and a lack of drinking water, so we need these resources. >> what about the call for public referendum in ecuador on yasuni? ecuador cannment of make the decision through its legislative body, and that is why the president has sent this proposal to the national assembly to analyze it and make a decision on it.
a significant part of the population wants to organize a public referendum, then they can do so and they can collect on signatures to that effect, then we can go and have a public referendum. we don't have any problem in doing that. nothy is president correa addressing the you in general simply like so many world leaders are? doesn't havecorrea thet of expectations about meetings of the general assembly. he attended one general assembly , but there were no world leaders in the room at the time to hear what he had to say.
so there is concern about the methodology of how things are organized here. and since he had the experience that he had here in the human -- in the you and, quite frankly, he was frustrated and he is not really interested in whereipating in an event nobody really seems to be interested in hearing each other . >> foreign minister, what about edward snowden and what you have learned from the leaks of this nsa contractor, the exposé after exposé of surveillance inside the united states and outside? edward snowden open the eyes
to an international .rime the nsa's spying on the whole , and that is a violation of international law. doesn't justre, it violate international law, it violates international trust. of one's friends and enemies, and that in and of itself is grave. there are countries that are friends and countries that are enemies. andll deserve respect
should be categorized as such. but in the rhetoric of the u.s. government and that even the u.s. government so-called friends were respected. they wanted to know absolutely everything that was going on. so what snowden denounced, this is very useful and allows us to correct what is been going on. these issues are not addressed. agenda of thehe human assembly. and that is unfortunate. president use of a brazil has canceled her state visit to
washington because of the information that is come out based on the leaks that she was being spied on that the ecuadorian energy company petrobras was being spied on. think that ecuador is being spied on? you.ll, i couldn't tell but when i was visiting julian assange a few weeks ago -- >> in your embassy -- >> in london, and the ecuadorian embassy, they found a few days before my visit a hidden microphone in the office of our ambassador. and we still haven't been able to ascertain who planted it.
but we can imagine who put it there. the information that snowden provides indicates that everyone is spied on. and so one should probably assume that we have been spied on as well. >> venezuela has offered edward snowden political asylum. ecuador -- is ecuador weighing this like you have julian assange? >> well, let's see. we are a very sovereign country with very from positions. protected bye is asylum that ecuador has provided him with. when the case of edward snowden arose, ecuador was the first
country that offered to analyze his request. while many countries immediately rejected the request. that it wouldered be best not to be alone in this ght because it is a very to beult, sticky matter given the political landscape of , and we can't ignore that fact. that is why we spoke with the outlook countries and we addressed the issue of snowden we thought them that it was important that other countries also offer a possible
.sylum to him because of that, venezuela, nicaragua, and bolivia offered asylum to him directly. and we thought that was good ecuador can't terry the weight -- can't carry the weight of these issues as if we were very powerful country. that is not the case. that is why we are pleased these other countries have offered solum and made that decision that they don't gang up on us. >> and julian assange's fate? he remains in the ecuadorian mission in london, in the embassy in london. it has been more than a year. >> yes. and unfortunately, the united
kingdom still has not provided .im with safe conduct i have spoken a number of times , and we havehague also provided him with the legal argument which don't just allow the united kingdom, but actually compel and force the united conduct,o provide safe but they have continued to to provide it. so the decision is in the hands of the u.k. >> president correa was just visiting with fidel castro in cuba. what is fidel castro's influence on latin america and his significance, and also if you could and, finally, by talking
about the legacy of them are venezuelan president hugo chavez? castro is anl international figure. who managed to liberate his country from the that --editorship dictatorship and laid the isndation for society that beneficial for all of the cubans. unfortunately, the reaction of the united states government was to attack cuba and to impose a criminal embargo. but the cuban government, despite these problems, has
managed to defend the life and well-being and health of its people. not only, it is offered international cooperation despite its own economic limitations, it has offered international cooperation with other countries. they offered it to ecuador, in fact. i say it with a certain amount of concern. we would have loved that europe over thenited states thousands of scholarships that cuba has offered to ecuadorian students, to study medicine. there were 2000 ecuadorian students were studying medicine in cuba. other countries, only want to train our military personnel. that is quite a contrast. just a way to begin to
respond your question, what is the influence of fetal castro? i think it is a moral influence. i participated in the conversation the president correa had with fidel castro. i was present at the last conversation. fidel castro- never offered advice to us. we talk about the state of the , how to achieve better development, how to improve health care and protection of our natural resources. that is what we talk about. >> how is his health? he is a bit challenged in
terms of mobility. lucidity andof reasoning in his concern for world issues, it is quite extraordinary what one learns from him. and a incredible memory capacity to analyze current and to for see what is going to happen. he is already 30 years or 50 years ahead of the curve. but his mobility is a bit problematic. >> and the legacy of chavez? >> the legacy is extraordinary. , 1998the cuban revolution , he hugo chavez took office
was totally alone in latin america. or were a lot of right wing and neoliberal governments and he would stance and international events and it was really hard because he was isolated. imagine how difficult it is to be the lone voice and have everybody against you, but little by little, other progressive governments came to power and now there is made progressive governments -- brazil, ecuador, bolivia, nicaragua, many other progressive governments in the -- that havewell changed the face of latin america. power oftrength and
the discourse and the proposal create thevez to integration of latin america is legendary. also, he contributed to strengthening a latin american and caribbean consciousness about the need for greater unity. and so that is why we always speak of hugo chavez with a lot of respect and endearment, ecuadorhe stood with when times were tough like you did with other countries, supported our process and andributed to the dream making the treatment reality. >> ecuadorian foreign minister ricardo patiño. i interviewed him on monday at
the permanent mission of ecuador to the united nations. president correa has decided not to address the u n general a year. you can visit democracynow.org to watch more of our interview. as the foreign minister talks about the crisis in syria, ecuador's controversial new media law come and ricardo patiño plus time working in nicaragua. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. head northe back, we to talk about the keystone xl. here in the united states -- not here in the united states, but canada. stay with us. ♪ [music break]
democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. five years ago this month, the firm transcanada submitted a permit request to build the keystone xl oil pipeline, which would bring tar sands oil from canada to refineries on the gulf coast. the project has sparked one of the nation's most contentious environmental battles in decades. the obama administration initially appeared ready to prove keystone xl, but an unprecedented wave of activism from environmentalists and residents of the states along its path has forced several delays. in the summer 2011, 1200 people were arrested outside the white house. on saturday, protests were held once again around the country in a national day of action urging president obama to reject keystone's construction. president obama also faces continued pressure from backers of the keystone xl. in her latest push for the project come a house republicans have announced plans to tie the
pipeline's construction to the upcoming vote on raising the nations debt ceiling. well, on monday, delegates at the 2013 international women's earth and climate summit held in new york called on obama to reject the keystone xl, saying -- at the conference, a member of the loop a concrete first nation , described the impact that massive oil and gas extraction is had on her family and its traditional land in northern alberta. >> i come from a small northern community. there is nothing on it that
compares with the destruction going on. i just think the world-renowned people experts are releasing this as one of the major issues and that is why it is one of the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in canada and why canada pulled out of the kyoto protocol. this is what it looks like. not fluid, so it takes a lot more energy and water and produces a lot more byproduct. it is equaling to why it is such a big area, 141 thousand square kilometers, equal to that of destroying england, wales combined, or the state of florida for american folks. there are about six or seven cities, could be up to nine. oil, formperial example, would be bigger than washington, d.c. alone. this is some of the biggest dump trucks in the world.
a lot of the issues of toxicity we're talking with, which relates to water, ponds, but there really toxic sludge lakes. they currently spend 180 square kilometers. every day one million leaders are reaching to the watershed, which is where our families drink from. arctic ap into the sin. that is where the northern folks will be getting these toxins that contain cyanide, lead, synthetic assets. there are a lot of issues we're dealing with healthwise. >> that was a member of the first nation in northern alberta. all of this comes as canadian prime minister stephen harper recently sent president obama letter, offering a greater pleasure produced carbon emissions of the keystone xl pipeline is built to bring tar sands oil from canada to the united states. for more enjoyed by one of
canada's leading a terminal activists, tzeporah berman, whose campaign for decades around clean energy him and his the former codirector of greenpeace internationals climate unit. she is now focused on stopping tar sands extraction as a member of the steering committee for the tar sand solutions network. she is also the cofounder of forestethics and the author of the book, "this crazy time: living our environmental challenge." welcome to 09/24/13 09/24/13 democracy now! forain what tar sands means you and how it is affected are all country. >> the tar sands of the singers -- single largest industrial. the scale is almost incomprehensible. they are not only the single pollutiont canada's is going up, that we will not meet even the weak target set up, but the most toxic project in the country.
they're polluting our water and air. the toxic sludge is pumped into open pit lakes that now stretch about 170 kilometers across canada. one of the important things about what is happening in canada right now is that canadian policy on climate change, on environment, on many issues is being held hostage to the goal that this federal government, the harper government and the oil industry, have of expanding the tar sands no matter what the cost. oil corrodes. it is corroding our pipelines and leading to leaks that are threatening our communities, but also corroding our democracy. what we're seeing in canada is, literally, the elimination of 40 years of environmental laws in the last two years in order to make way for quick expansion of tar sands and pipeline. the keystone is not the only pipeline in this industry is opposing. it is a spider of pipelines they
want to expand this dirty oil as quickly as possible. >> why is it so dirty? >> you oil is mixed with sand. in order to get that oil out, they have to use natural gas. more natural gas is used in the tar sands than all homes in canada. they use natural gas and freshwater to actually remove the oil from the sand. the result is that each barrel of oil from the tar sands has three to four times more emissions, more climate pollution than conventional oil. talks explain how this pipeline would traverse canada and the united states and where it goes, what it is for. does the u.s. benefit from the oil going through the pipeline? >> no, this is an export pipeline. the industry wants to get this oil off the continent because they will get a better price. so all of the pipelines currently being proposed are in orders of the industry can export the oil. so the keystone, for example, we'll go from alberta straley through the u.s. and out to the
golf. it is not for u.s. consumption. the majority of that oil is destined -- really, it just be in the way. the result is this is a pipeline that presents enormous risk to the american people as a result of the terrible records of oil spill's and leaks. and not a lot of benefit. >> you have been meeting with a number of scientists. there was an interesting editorial in "the new york times ." is said over the last two years, it is been harder and harder for publicly financed scientist to communicate with the public and with other scientists. what is going on? >> first of all, the government has shut down the majority of scientific research in the country that had to deal with climate change. they don't want to talk about climate change. laster they shut down the atmospheric research station, which was one of the most important places in the world to get climate data.
they fired hundreds of scientists. the ones left are being told they can't release the research to us, even though it is a tax funded research. there are told they cannot speak to the press unless they have a handler, so the scientists i've talked to are embarrassed, frustrated, protesting. last week in canada we had hundreds of scientists hit the streets in their lab coats protesting the federal government because they can't speak. they are being muzzled. , it was published last year sang it is time for canada to set its scientists free. >> we know in the u.s. under the bush administration you had james hansen who was head of the goddard institute for space studies at nasa who had a handler who had not graduated from college. i think his credential was that he been active on the bush campaign committee, reelection committee, and james
hansen had to go through him to do with the media. >> right. and he still got to speak to the media. most of the scientists i'm talking to in canada can't speak to the media at all. if they want to talk about climate change, they're definitely not going to get those interviews approved. it is not just the scientists being muzzled and the climate research being shut down and people that are being fired, we have also seen an unprecedented attack on charitable organizations that deal with environmental research. the canadian government has the majority of environmental organizations under canadian revenue audit, so the result is coming up the majority of the country's environmental leaders not able to be watchdogs on what the government is doing. secret documents revealed through freedom of information this year show the government illuminated all these environment to laws in canada at the request of the oil industry because the environmental laws
were in their way. a northern pipeline that crosses 1000 streams and that would normally trigger in of our process.sessment when you have no laws, you have no environmental assessment. 3000 environmental assessments were canceled. now the projects are just approved. >> what does it mean for you and activists in canada and the u.s. when clearly president obama has the forced to delay keystone xl because of the massive protest? isi think what we're seeing an unprecedented climate movement. these pipelines have provided a tangible focus for communities on the ground in the oil industry and the government have, in a sense, created their own perfect storm. while before it may and people
concerned about climate change that would get involved and tar sands are pipeline issues, now it is people worried about their groundwater, first nations and indigenous people across north theira who are protesting rights. it is land owners. now you have this perfect storm. >> earlier this month, neil young spoke out against the extraction of tar sands oil in canada and its export to the u.s. to be proposed keystone xl pipeline. he was speaking to a national farmers union rally and washington, d.c., described his recent visit to a tar sands community in alberta, canada. >> the fact is, it looks like hiroshima. it is a wasteland. the indians and the native peoples are dying. fumes everywhere. you can smell it when you get to town. the closest place that is doing the tar sands work is 25 or 30 miles out of town, and you can taste it when you get to fort
mcmurray. people are sick. people are dying of cancer because of this. >> that was legendary singer neil young. he is canadian. of himnificance coming, and what did jim hansen call it? >> he is referred to the keystone xl pipeline as the fumes to the largest carbon bomb on the planet. his studies are showing if we allow the tar sands to expand at the rates the government and industry wanted to expand, then it is game over for the planet. >> tzeporah berman, i saw you at the summit and you talked about your son having to respond to a question of his. we only have a minute, but explain. >> one night at dinner my son, who was eight years old at the time, said, mommy, what is the government think you are a terrorist? which is not really the conversation you want to have with your son. yet heard on the radio, on the
senate floor, the harbor government was proposing that we turn the definition to include environmentalists. >> what does that mean for you and for environmental activist? where are you headed now? what are you going to do around tar sands? >> canadian to care about these issues are under attack iran government. we are being told that if we -- what we do is not in the national interests unless we support the oil industry's agenda. but i think this government has overreached and we're now finding -- our phones are ringing off the hook. people are joining the campaign and stepping up. let's be clear. canadians want clean energy. any canadians are very embarrassed about what our government is doing internationally, so our movement is growing. so far, we have slowed down all of these pipelines and expansion. >> what is the alternative? >> for canada, not only clean energy, renewable energy, which we can build and we know it, but
also supporting other aspects of our economy. we support only one aspect of your economy, the most capital- intensive sector in the country, then it starts to destroy your manufacturing base, your service industry, your tourism industry. we need a diversified canopy -- economy in canada. >> tzeporah berman, thank you for being with us. campaign for decades to run clean energy, former codirector of greenpeace internationals, unit, now focused on stopping tar sands extension. democracy now! is looking for feedback from people who appreciate the closed captioning. e-mail your comments to firstname.lastname@example.org or mail them to democracy now! p.o. box 693 new york, new york 10013.
you. tavis: more than a decade of four has resulted in a separation from the american public and their professional military that fights in our name basovich.es andrew at a professor of history boston university he joins us tonight from that campus. good to have you on the program. thanks for your time. >> thank you for having me on. >> how have we as americans failed our soldiers? surface americans hold their soldiers in very high regard.
on publict manifested occasions whether it is the super bowl or the world series. my argument is that that is pretty thin. and substantively we have not provided support. i think the proper expression of support should be that we would want to ensure that our soldiers are never sent and harm's way unless absolutely necessary. when they go to fight the fight in wars that are properly managed. as a practical matter neither of those has retained create we have allowed a government to dispatch our soldiers to unnecessary wars with iraq being the principal example. afghanistan,and our soldiers have been subjected to mismanaged, poorly managed wars and the american people for the most part have stood aside
and simply allow that to happen. >> i take your logic, let me present little further. when you look at polls and studies and surveys, even the president with this mess that we have gotten into with syria has said repeatedly he knows the american public is were wary. i you saying that the american public at large, those of us who make up the electric have let the soldiers down? person to occupy the oval office, who said on capitol hill and make these decisions in our name, they have let the soldiers down. those are two different things, i think. >> i do not know. i think they are connected. we have allowed this people who we elected to get away with perpetrating ill-advised policies. we have not insisted upon accountability. i am not even persuaded by the argument that in the recent syria crisis that th