tv Full Measure With Sharyl Attkisson ABC July 2, 2017 10:00am-10:30am EDT
kaiser permanente. thrive. pete hoekstra: they know who you're talking to, they know your communications patterns, so whether you're doing it through social media, or through emails, or through phone calls, they know who you are talking to. sharyl: former congressman pete hoekstra is describing the extent of government surveillance. pete: they can profile you as to the kind of person you are, and the kind of people that you interact with. sharyl: in 2011, the government vastly expanded its surveillance powers to include u.s. citizens who merely mentioned a foreign target. pete: it's absolutely outrageous. the executive branch cannot spy on congress, and they cannot spy on the american people.
pete: but they are. sharyl: coverage of candidate and president donald trump has pumped up deep party divides when it comes to attitudes about the news media. nearly 90% of democrats say news media criticism serves to keep leaders in line. but less than half of republicans say the same. katerina matsa: that was one of the widest gaps that we saw between republicans and democrats. sharyl: how did you first hear that you were getting sort of this resurgence with the chuck norris facts? chuck norris: about 11 years ago, a college kid from brown university sent me three chuck norris facts. and i'm reading them and the first one was, "they wanted to put chuck norris on mt. rushmore, but the granite wasn't tough enough for his beard." [laughter] chuck: i thought, you know, this is pretty funny. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪
sharyl: welcome to folding." -- "full measure." i'm sharyl attkisson. under the law that created the cia in 1947, there was a bright line barring the agency from spying on americans, partly over concerns about civil liberties, privacy, and political abuse. after the september 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, there was widespread support for stepped up security, even if it meant stepping on jealously-guarded constitutional protections. some worried -- would the government take its new powers too far? with recent disclosures, the answer may be yes. today's cover story examines "the surveillance state." pete hoekstra: they know who you're talking to, they know your communications patterns. so whether you're doing it through social media, or know through emails or through phone calls or these types of things, they know who you're talking to. sharyl: former congressman pete hoekstra is de
surveillance. pete: we use it to profile people who may be threats to the united states. but at the same time, they can profile you as to the kind of person you are, and the kind of people that you interact with. sharyl: even if i've done nothing wrong? pete: even if you've done nothing wrong. sharyl: as a relatively new member of the intelligence committee, hoekstra helped usher in the modern surveillance state after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. he supported the patriot act that greatly expanded the powers of u.s. intelligence agencies. in 2004, he became chairman of the house intelligence committee. pete: i was called over to the white house and i met with mike hayden who, at that time, was the director of the nsa and i met with the vice president. sharyl: they read him in on a government practice that was unheard of by the public -- a secret program to gather "bulk" data on nearly every american. pete: we collect americans who, you know, who are part of the system and through this huge dragnet that we have out there and this is what we do to make sure that their "conversations" are minimized.
sharyl: the program was so secretive that director of national intelligence james clapper was still publicly denying it in 2013. sen. wyden: does the nsa collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of americans? dir. clapper: no, sir. sen. wyden: it does not? dir. clapper: not wittingly. sharyl: a month later, national security agency whistleblower edward snowden exposed the shocking extent to which the u.s. government had been spying on law-abiding citizens, including so-called "incidental" surveillance, without a court warrant, of americans who simply communicated with a foreign target. on that basis, the government has secretly recorded members of congress, we've learned, including jane harmon speaking with pro-israel lobbyists and dennis kucinich speaking with a libyan official.
someone illegally leaked the conversations to the press. some people today may not realize that privacy of our citizens and controlling the government from doing these sorts of things is sort of a basic tenet in our society. elizabeth goitein: it is. i mean, it's right there in the fourth amendment. sharyl: elizabeth goitein leads the liberty and national security program at the brennan center for justice policy group. elizabeth: essentially every administration, starting from fdr up through nixon, had abused the surveillance authorities that were in their power in order to go after personal enemies, in order to go after political opponents, journalists, lobbyists, executive officials. sharyl: they had enemies lists. elizabeth: they had enemies lists. congressional staffers, disfavored minorities, or political viewpoints. sharyl: but goitein says the post-9/11 surveillance state dwarfs anything imagined by j. edgar hoover, fbi director from 1935 to 1972, known for his covert acts against political opponents. exhibit one is a bombshell in a
reported in may by circa news. in 2011, the government vastly expanded its surveillance powers to include u.s. citizens who merely mentioned a foreign target in "a single discrete communication." there was concern back then that government would ultimately abuse these tools. do you think that's happened? pete: i think it has. and i've admitted that. sharyl: in recent years, the government has also gotten caught monitoring journalists at fox news, associated press, and, as i allege in a federal lawsuit, my computer while i worked at cbs news. also under president obama, the government spied on multiple congress members speaking with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. in 2014, the cia even got caught spying on senate intelligence committee staffers, though cia director john brennan had explicitly denied that. he later apologized. pete: it's absolutely outrageous, and i think, you know, should have led for the removal of the people in the
authorized that behavior, even if it went all the way to the director of the cia. the executive branch cannot spy on congress and they cannot spy on the american people. sharyl: but they are. pete: but they are. sharyl: with the recent presidential election came new possibilities for intelligence collection and abuses. several revealed in just the past few weeks. we've learned that in january 2016, a top secret inspector general report found the national security agency violated the very laws designed to prevent abuse. throughout the election year, obama officials searched through intelligence on u.s. citizens a record 30,000 times -- up from 9500 in 2013. two weeks before the election, there was a secret hearing before the court overseeing government surveillance. national security agency officials confessed they'd violated privacy safeguards
the judge accused them of "institutional lack of candor" and said "this is a very serious fourth amendment issue." president trump: you can talk all you want about russia. sharyl: after donald trump was elected, he questioned the intelligence community's claims that russia interfered in u.s. elections and drew a warning from lead democrat senator chuck schumer. sen. schumer: you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from sunday of getting back at you. sharyl: days later, president obama took action to allow intelligence gathered by the national security agency to be shared more easily with other intel officials. soon, secret intercepts of conversations between trump national security adviser michael flynn and russia's ambassador were leaked to the press and flynn resigned. pres. trump: he didn't tell the vice president of the united states the facts and then he
didn't remember, and that's just not acceptable to me. sharyl: while the media focused on russia, some began asking who had been surveilled and why. also, which obama officials had asked to view the intel and "unmask" names of u.s. citizens normally hidden for privacy reasons. in april, former obama official susan rice admitted she unmasked and reviewed, but denied political spying. susan rice: the effort to ask for the identity of an american citizen is necessary to understand the importance of an intelligence report, in some instances. sharyl: we now know that some political figures, including susan rice, have asked to see those names and read that intelligence in some cases. what thoughts does that evoke for you? pete: it's of great concern, because i think most of the time for these kinds of conversations you really don't need to, you don't need the unmasking to really figure it out. sharyl: in may, two more high-ranking obama officials
secretly collected communications from political figures. sen. grassley: did either of you ever review classified documents in which mr. trump, his associates, or members of congress had been unmasked? dir. clapper: oh, yes. sen. grassley: you have? can you give us details here in this? dir. clapper: no, i can't. sen. grassley: ms. yates, have you? sally yates: yes, i have and, no, i can't give you details. sharyl: all concerned have said their actions were not politically motivated and were in the interest of national security. it's in this context that congress will decide whether to renew government surveillance powers that expire at the end of the year. hoekstra says significant new safeguards should be added. pete: i think in too many cases, congress has become deferential to the intelligence community and to the executive branch, and they have to exert themselves. sharyl: interestingly, erosions that you say occurred under republicans continued under democrats with president obama. what does that tell you?
elizabeth: it tells me that when congress or the president invokes an emergency to expand surveillance authorities, those authorities have a way of becoming institutionalized. sharyl: the national security agency recently instituted some court-approved changes to prevent further violations of surveillance rules. ahead on "full measure." do you trust the media? we have the results of a new survey and a new divide.
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sharyl: today, it seems like a lot of americans are arguing over the news media. "fake news." who to trust and who not to trust. how fair or unfair we are. we dug into a recent eye-opening survey by pew research center. >> you've now said that he is being investigated after saying that. >> no! >> you just said that. >> he's not being investigated. >> you just said that he's being investigated. sharyl: russia hysteria or top-notch reporting? >> and it's a grotesque abuse of power by the president of the united states. sharyl: coverage of candidate and president donald trump has pumped up deep party divides when it comes to attitudes about the news media. katerina matsa: in 2017, we decided to re-ask a number of questions on american's media attitudes that we already had asked in 2016. sharyl: katerina matsa is a senior researcher at the pew research center. in the early days of the trump administration, what did you learn about whether americans feel tha
of political leaders is productive or not productive? katerina: that was one of the widest gaps that we saw between republicans and democrats. sharyl: historically, republicans are more likely to see media criticism as a positive thing if there's a democrat in the white house and vice versa. but today's divide is the largest, by far, in the 32 years that pew has been asking the question. nearly 90% of democrats say news media criticism serves to keep leaders in line. but less than half of republicans say the same. katerina: that was a 47% point gap between republicans and democrats on that question. sharyl: is that a big difference from past surveys? katerina: from 2016, that is a big difference. sharyl: in fact, in early 2016, in the middle of presidential primary season, democrats and republicans saw eye-to-eye on this particular question. at that time, support for the media's watchdog role was about the same among democrats and republicans.
before now, the biggest gap was under president george w. bush, when democrats were 28 points more likely than republicans to appreciate the media as watchdog. pew also measured "interest" in national news and found an increase. 33% a year ago said they closely followed national news. that's now up to 40%, but the increase is due almost entirely to democrats. their level of interest jumped from 33% to 49%. and what about bias? there's a strong party split when it comes to perceived media fairness. what is it? katerina: yes, and what we found was that republicans are actually more likely than democrats to say that news organizations tend to favor one side. sharyl: 87% of republicans said news organizations tend to favor one side. only about half of democrats said so. that's the widest gap between the two parties since the george w. bush administration in 2007
another partisan divide is evident when it comes to "trust" in national news organizations. 34% of democrats trust the national news, more than triple the percentage of republicans. again, a much larger gap than a year ago. and finally, although americans are turning to social media more than ever for information, they claim they trust it the least. sharyl: what is the americans trust or reliance on social media for accurate news? katerina: so, it's 5% in 2017. sharyl: just 5%? katerina: yes, just 5%, which, granted the information that americans get on social media is friends and family, so it's good to take that into consideration. sharyl: in a finding that seems a bit at odds with other results, pew says about 75% of americans said the media does a good or fairly good job of keeping them well-informed. coming up on "full measure." we talk to americans abroad in berlin and hear their concerns about foreign travel in a time of terrorism.
sharyl: the peak travel season is here and many americans are taking their holidays abroad. recently, our scott thuman was in berlin and spoke with some americans about their travel and terrorism. scott: for tourists, whether it's a bike ride beneath the brandenburg gate or a stroll along the painted remaining panels of the berlin wall, the german capital is like a living history book. it is a city that has endured dark times of division and then felt the relief of reunification. today, a different struggle -- one of assimilating a surging refugee population and attempting to ensure safety after a series of attacks. >> people are very -- they're helpful, regardless of what your nationality is or which country you come from. at least tha
>> i don't feel less safe here with more refugees than i do in the states. scott: for this family from northern california, any worries are met with perspective. >> when you have terrorism, it's an isolated case, who knows when you're gonna go? so you just live your life and you just say, hey, if it happens, it's my time. other than that, i'm living my life, going wherever i want to go, see what i want to see. scott: dayna and jack brockbank are backpacking across europe. what's your level of concern or worry when you hit these big cities? dayna: well, honestly, our parents were pretty concerned when we were going out and we got a lot of questions, like, "aren't you scared to be traveling europe at this time?" and we just didn't really feel that kind of fear, the point of terrorism is to make us feel scared to travel the world, we just wanted to be above that. scott: before berlin, they'd been in london, another constant target, just like paris or brussels, all now debating despite the threats, how to maintain their melting pot mentalities. according to this german couple, it's simple. it's a matter of humanity.
their home countries because of war or anything else, it's our duty to welcome them here. scott: do you worry about your country changing too much, culturally? or any of that? >> i think it might be necessary, to change. maybe it's time for a change. sharyl: president trump will be visiting hamburg this week, attending an international economic meeting known as the g20 summit. next on "full measure." we lighten up. chuck norris gets personal, and z2e2hz z1a2z y2e2hy y1a2y
y2e2gy y1a2y sharyl: as we approach this fourth of july, there's perhaps few things more all-american than icon chuck norris. i recently got the chance to visit his texas ranch, where he shared a few true chuck norris facts i'll bet you didn't know. first of all, his real name isn't chuck. it's carlos. who gave you the nickname first? chuck norris: i joined, i went in the military, and i'm in boot camp and a hispanic guy says, "you know what the name carlos means in english?" i said, "yeah, it's charles." and he says, "yeah, and the nickname for charles is chuck and i'm gonna call you chuck." for some reason, it stuck with me and, from that point on, everyone called me chuck, so, i just stuck with it. sharyl: it worked well for you. chuck: yeah, it did. and, of course, these are all my books that i've written over the years. i've done two trips to iraq, 2006 and 2007. so i went over and i went to 17 different bases and camps and shook nd
with 20,000 troops in 2006 and then i went over and did it again in 2007. sharyl: are you really popular among the military guys? chuck: oh my gosh, one guy, they said show -- one of the troopers had a jumpsuit on, they said, "show chuck, show chuck." he pulls down his arm, he's got a picture of me on his arm. i go, "guy, that's on there for the rest of your life!" [laughter] chuck: but they had my name on tanks and, you know, carriers and all this stuff here. sharyl: are you surprised when you understand the scope of your popularity? chuck: it's kind of mind-boggling, really. sharyl: were you in the army? chuck: air force. sharyl: air force. chuck: yeah. my brother, this is my brother's dress uniform. he was killed in vietnam. sharyl: i'm sorry. chuck: and so we have his dress uniform and he was one of my black belts, too. this is his black belt certificate and he was on my fighting team. sharyl: i think people know, most people know, obviously you aren't an actor who dabbles in
martial arts, you are a true martial artist. chuck: that dabbles in acting, really. [laughter] chuck: yeah, this is when i won the title right here. that's louis delgado and i'm going down to punch him in the head. this photo came out. louis came over and says, "that must have been your mother down in the audience taking that picture." i said, "i don't know who took it, louis." this here is missing in action and i'm rescuing pow's and so the scene is for me to get the pow's into this helicopter out over the ocean. well, of course, i have a stuntman to do that. but the wind was blowing so hard that they said, "no, it's too dangerous. so what we will do is pick you up out of the water about three feet, then drop you back down and cut." i said, ok. so anyway, pow's go in the helicopter, i grab ahold of there and the pilot takes off, takes off with me out over the ocean.
and i'm hanging no safety or anything, i'm just hanging on. so anyway, i'm flying out over the ocean, i'm looking down about 300 feet up and i said, if i drop would it kill me, you know? and finally my brother, who was on the set, calls and they finally get ahold of the pilot and they bring me back to the beach and drop me down. i held so tight that they had to peel my fingers off. sharyl: goodness. chuck: so i've had pretty fun experiences. sharyl: how did you first hear that you were getting sort of this resurgence with the chuck norris facts? chuck: about 11 years ago, a college kid from brown university sent me three chuck norris facts. and i'm reading them and the first one was, "they wanted to put chuck norris on mt. rushmore, but the granite wasn't tough enough for his beard." [laughter] chuck: i thought, you know, this is pretty funny. well, the college crowd started gravitating to them and started making up their own chuck norris facts. then it went to high school, elementary school, and then it's just started going worldwide.
sharyl: did you ever want to be in law enforcement? chuck: yes, i did. actually, that was my goal. you know, i grew up planning on being in law enforcement and so, when i joined the military, i got in military police with the purpose of preparing myself for law enforcement. in fact, when i got out of the service, i was married and had, you know, i had to start working right away so i took my exams for the lapd, but i had like a four-month waiting list. so, in the meantime, i worked at northrop aircraft and i decided to start a little karate club in my mom's backyard. and i started teaching and, in about three months, i fell in love with teaching and i decided to make that my career. and so i changed my mind at the last minute and that's history. sharyl: wow. by the way, chuck is 77 years old and we're told he still works out fanatically. you can see more of the interview on our "full measure" facebook page.
until next time, thanks for watching. i'm sharyl attkisson. did you know slow internet can actually hold your business back? say goodbye to slow downloads, slow backups, slow everything. comcast business offers blazing fast and reliable internet that's up to 16 times faster than slow internet from the phone company. say hello to faster downloads with internet speeds up to 250 megabits per second. get fast internet and add phone and tv now for only $24.90 more per month. our lowest price ever on this offer. but only for a limited time. call today. comcast business. built for business.
>> >> washington d.c. and around the world, this is "government matters" with francis rose. >> thanks for watching the weekend edition of "government matters," the only show covering the latest news, trends, and topics that matter to the business of government. i'm your host, francis rose. senate version of the national defense authorization act would dramatically reshape information technology management at the department of defense. it would split the responsibilities of the chief information officer when department of defense's chief management officer and a new chief information warfare