tv Full Measure With Sharyl Attkisson ABC October 15, 2017 10:00am-10:30am EDT
alberto martinez: puerto rico was already suffering a financial crisis, now it's been wrecked by hurricane maria. sharyl: he blames more than a decade of poor tax and business policies. it's the reason why, before hurricane maria, puerto rico governor ricardo rossello already faced a near impossible climb. how bad is it in a word or two? gov. rossello: government was run, essentially, as a big ponzi scheme. sharyl: it sounds like at least mismanagement, and perhaps even corruption. gov. rossello: certainly a total lack of accountability in puerto rico, managerial foresight, and certainly corruption. scott: in paris, france in 2015, there were two seemingly
the two incidents were linked by the women in the attackers' lives, who had exchanged more than 500 messages in the days leading up to the bloodshed. audrey alexander: are they the most likely to take up arms and attack a concert venue? statistically speaking, no, but the threat picture is a lot more dynamic. scott: in chat rooms and on twitter, alexander tracks the women behind some of the virulent anti-western rants posted on social media on a daily basis. sharyl: what kinds of questions dominate media and culture today, in your view? frank sesno: i think, in this diet of questions, types of questions, we're bingeing on the confrontation. >> since you're attacking us, can you give us a question? >> is a question an attack? sharyl: when it comes to the media, why do you think they are, as you say, binging on the confrontational questions? frank sesno: i think the binge on confrontation is because that's where the drama is.
national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ sharyl: welcome to "full measure." i'm sharyl attkisson. by now, you're familiar with the sights of devastation from puerto rico after hurricane maria. what you may not know is just how bad things were for the u.s. territory before the storm hit. it's a story of corruption and waste and, puerto rican officials say, a lesson for all of us. alberto martinez was born and raised in puerto rico. he recorded these pictures after hurricane maria. prof. alberto martinez: puerto rico was already suffering a financial crisis, now it's been wrecked by hurricane maria. sharyl: martinez also showed us around puerto rico over the summer, before hurricane maria. for all intents and purposes, already bankrupt. prof. martinez: this is the ponce de leon avenue on santurce.
sharyl: a college professor, martinez is planning to include puerto rico's example in a course at the university of texas on money and corruption. prof. martinez: now it's just a bunch of shut down storefronts with graffiti. sharyl: he blames more than a decade of poor tax and business policies and big banks that convinced politicians to borrow like there was no tomorrow. prof. martinez: sales taxes are too high. rent prices are too high. business to business expenses are too high. so if you can't do business in puerto rico and customers just don't have the money, eventually store after store have to shut down. sharyl: rodrigo masses has also been tracking puerto rico's financial downfall as the head of a group representing manufacturing and service industries. puerto rico racked up, as of 2016, $118 billion in debt and unfunded pension liabilities with no way to pay it back. in simple terms, what's your understanding of how we got here?
rodrigo masses: well, basically, you know, the answer is very simple, in the way that all countries get in debt. we tried to finance debt with debt. and at the end, we forget to grow the economy, or we cannot grow the economy, and therefore there's no way to comply with our obligations. sharyl: who do you blame for getting in that situation in the first place? rodrigo masses: i think we blame ourselves, we were supposed to not default in this process. so, we together, politicians, public sector, we are the one to blame. sharyl: it's the reason why, before hurricane maria, puerto rico governor ricardo rossello already faced a near impossible climb. with the fiscal crisis, you were handed quite a mess. gov. ricardo rossello: that's right. sharyl: you knew that going in. gov. rossello: we just didn't know the magnitude of it. we knew it was bad. sharyl: on his first day as governor last january, rossello declared a fiscal emergency and ordered government operating ex
board. how bad is it, in a word or two? gov. rossello: this might be hard for some of our viewers to explain to. but we had sort of a bank, a government-owned bank, which had the purpose of developing infrastructure and so forth, but essentially became another agency, and did not serve its purpose. it became a black hole in and of itself. government was ran, essentially, as a big ponzi scheme, and we were at the last level. sharyl: it sounds like, at least, mismanagement and perhaps even corruption. gov. rossello: yes, certainly. certainly mismanagement, certainly a total lack of accountability in puerto rico, managerial foresight, and certainly corruption. sharyl: as puerto rico silently accrued deep debt, a stunning 46% of puerto ricans fell into poverty. and government became wildly bloated.
of education makes more from her government work than the u.s. secretary of education, who is not taking the salary. puerto rico's chief of security makes 50% more than the head of the fbi. the whole territory is smaller than los angeles county, just 100 miles long and 35 miles wide. but it has 78 municipalities, each with its own separate governing structure. 78 mayors, 78 legislatures. and 135 government agencies. gov. rosello: i have 135 agencies, which we have in puerto rico, can i consolidate many of them? can i eliminate some of them? we are doing that path. so our expectations is, by the end of the four years, we're going to reduce 135-agency government to about a 30- to 35-agency government. that's going to provoke a lot of savings for puerto rico. sharyl: and criticism. gov. rossello: and criticism, but i ran on that platform. sharyl: the governor's supporters are behind hi
but his austerity measures aren't popular with residents, like single mom ana candelario. with basic groceries costing more than the u.s. average, she and other government workers may be facing a pay cut. ana candelario: last week, i went to the bank to make an arrangement to reduce my mortgage and also the student loan that i have right now. sharyl: even if puerto rico wanted to ignore its fiscal crisis, it couldn't. congress took control last year by passing promesa, the puerto rico oversight, management, and economic stability act. a seven-member board appointed by president obama was given the power to restructure and negotiate with creditors. then maria hit. rob bishop: they have to start over again. so they came up with a plan originally, this changes the dynamics of that plan. so they're gonna have to redo the overall funding plan again. sharyl: cong
committee that oversees puerto rico. can you explain how puerto rico's bad financial situation will impact how they recover from the hurricane? rob bishop: it exacerbates the problem for them. when you're that far in debt and you have to restructure everything, including the grid, yes. it makes it more difficult to borrow money. people are not going to lend money if they don't think it's going to be paid back. sharyl: as the fiscal oversight board promesa goes back to the drawing board, it's drawing criticism for the money it's spending to rein in puerto rico's spending. the congressional budget office estimates that operating promesa will cost $370 million over five years. promesa executive director natalie jaresko is getting paid $625,000 a year. 50% more than the salary of the president of the united states. it's one reason promesa has stoked longstanding resentment of u.s. domain over puerto rico.
prof. martinez: this sign right here, "no white person, no rich person represents us. go to hell, the fiscal control board and the gringo government," that is the american government. sharyl: the head of the fiscal board is making $625,000 a year, which is roughly 50% more than the president of the united states. what do you think of those criticisms that they have about the cost of this? rep. rob bishop: that's one of the things we will be looking at in oversight hearings as time goes on. this is not an easy process. sharyl: as puerto rico grapples with its double disasters, the hurricane and fiscal crisis, governor rossello warns there are lessons for those of us on the mainland. gov. rosello: there needs to be a continuous question asked on any country, the united states or any country, if i continue this rate of debt or fiscal liabilities, where am i going to end up in ten years? what is that going to have in terms of the impact to services we can give our communities and our citizens?
what's that gonna do to healthcare, for example, or education? so, yes, it is a critical question that needs to be asked. prof. martinez: twenty years ago, it used to be a main business center, instead now we have dozens and dozens of shut down stores. sharyl: as for professor martinez, he says he's got all the material he needs to teach the puerto rico section of his college course on money and corruption. prof. martinez: the synopsis would be, puerto rico allowed itself to be hoodwinked by big bankers into creating debt it could never possibly pay. there were no consequences for the politicians, and there still are no consequences. instead, they're filthy rich and this is happening in many other places throughout the states. sharyl: jaresko, the head of the fiscal board appointed to guide puerto rico, was busy on the job and not available for an interview. as for her $625,000 salary, a spokesman told us her success in her former job as finance minister of ukraine qualifies
road to recovery in its "long-running financial crisis of staggering complexity." ahead on "full measure" -- scott thuman with a surprising look at the women supporting and engaging in terrorism. female jihadis, up next. your internet deserves the 100% fiber-optic network. engaging in terrorism. female jihadis, up next. with fios gigabit connection, you get the fastest internet available with download speeds up to 940 megs. it's your last chance to get fios gigabit connection with tv and phone for $79.99 a month online for the first year. plus, your choice of hbo or multi-room dvr service included for 2 years, all with a two year agreement. and verizon wireless customers can stream tv on the fios mobile app, data-free. hurry and switch now, this offer ends november 4th. go to getfios.com
every successful radical islamic terrorist is a woman. a wife or mother playing an important, if indirect, role in jihad. the rise of homegrown, female jihadis in america is a phenomenon being tracked by one researcher at george washington university. scott thuman spoke with her about a threat she says is being overlooked, but is growing. scott: in paris, france in 2015, there were two seemingly separate terrorist attacks, one at the "charlie hebdo" newspaper, and later that week, at a grocery store. the two incidents were linked by the women in the attackers' lives, who had exchanged more than 500 messages in the days leading up to the bloodshed. audrey alexander: i think, as a society, i hate to say it, but we have latent biases about the threat posed by women. scott: audrey alexander is a research fellow at george washington university's program on extremism. audrey: this is, like, my database. scott: in chat rooms and on twitter, alexander tracks the women behind some of the virulent anti-western
women like "muslimah" have weaponized twitter. audrey: toy gun this year, ak-47 next year. scott: using it as a platform to spread jihad. audrey: so she is talking about armed protests at 20 mosques, muslims should come armed too. "inshallah, the markets crash and burn." scott: "muslimah" was actually safya roe yassin, a u.s. citizen from missouri, with 97 different handles on twitter and thousands of followers. in february of 2016, she was arrested. in february of 2016, she was arrested. according to the fbi, yassin retweeted personally identifiable information about two fbi agents, under the headline, "wanted to kill." would people be surprised if they knew the role that women have played in terrorism? audrey: i think now, more than ever, it's come to the surface. in part because social media allows us
before. scott: prime example, tashfeen malik. she captured headlines as the woman who, alongside her husband, opened fire and killed 14 people and injured 22 others in san bernardino, california in december, 2015. >> we got officers running here, back eastbound, chasing them now on foot, look at all those units here. okay, we've got a graphic situation here, we've got a black suv, the suspect is down, we've got a long rifle in the street. scott: though alexander says female jihadists aren't usually doing the killing, the real threat is their ability to inspire. consider someone like abu musab al-zarqawi, a jordanian who fought in iraq and was considered the godfather of modern-day isis. audrey: zarqawi's mother was the one who first got him into religious classes. when he was the most wanted man in jordan, he traveled back for her funeral in disguise.
on top of that, when he first went to wage jihad in peshawar, he took his mother. but i think that when we look at the role of wife and mother, we should take seriously the fact that they see their role as teaching their children the merits of jihad and raising them to be combatants. scott: how significant then would you say is the threat from female jihadists? audrey: are they are they the most likely to take up arms and attack a concert venue? statistically speaking, no, they don't pose a real threat. but the threat picture is a lot more dynamic, especially considering contributions of women are long-term. scott: and they're getting others to contribute as well, through fundraising and encouraging them to join the fight. audrey: women are great facilitators. so looking at women's accounts online and how they can facilitate introductions and they're great recruiters. i think that that's a real threat. scott: alexander says law enforcement needs to crack down on the women, as harshly as they
conley attempted to join isis in syria, but may have gotten more lenient handling because she is a woman. audrey: the fbi agents treated her quite differently than they would in a lot of cases, basically trying to set her up to give her an out. can you do anything but this? in communicating with her family, you know a lot of steps were afforded to shannon conley that weren't afforded to other cases that could have been a great out for people who are on the path of violent extremism. scott: alexander's dossier continues to grow. audrey: these are all accounts. scott: she says that preventing attacks means spotlighting not just the men grabbing the headlines, but the women behind them. of course, it's debatable if some of these postings are actually criminal. "muslimah," who we told you about, goes on trial in federal court in december. her attorney claims her postings are just protected free speech. prosecutors argued that even if they are just retweets, they are still inciting violence.
>> today at 10:30 on "government matters." building soldiers for life, as the army is planning to recrui sharyl: one recent poll this summer stated that more americans trust the white house than the media. another poll said more trust the media than the president. and a good number of people trust neither. if you're having a problem getting the basic facts on a story, instead of so much spin, there might be a good reason. it might just be because we, the media, are asking the wrong questions. frank sesno, educator, journalist, and author of the book "ask more," knows why. frank: the idea behind the book "ask more" is that, i've had so much opportunity, myself, to ask questions all my life and discover. and i realized that there is, actually, sort of a taxonomy to this, there are types of questions. and each type of question connects to a different outcome,
questions are framed differently. and we listen for different things. and if we can understand that and pursue that, we can be better in business, we can be better in relationships, and we can be better citizens. sharyl: what kinds of questions dominate media and culture today, in your view? frank: i think, in this diet of questions, types of questions, we're bingeing on the confrontation. we're asking too many confrontational questions, so that we get this sense that all we're doing is carping and fighting. >> since you're attacking us, can you give us a question? >> is a question an attack? is a question an attack? >> you've been labeled a racist, you've been called a sexist, how do you respond to that? frank: and we're not getting the deeper understanding of things that gives us the context, that gives us the empathy, that allows us to diagnose the problem. you have to diagnose a problem before you can treat it. those questions are often self-serving. they reinforce our own biases, and our own opinions, rather than challenging others and
ourselves to figure out first what's going on and why. sharyl: when it comes to the media, why do you think they are, as you say, binging on the confrontational questions? frank: when it comes to the media, i think the binge on confrontation is because that's where the drama is. that's where the ratings are, that's where the clicks and the eyeballs are. it's not where the deeper understanding and context are. sharyl: can you think of any confrontational exchanges or questions that stand out from the past six months or year? frank: well, the confrontational questions that stand out to me over the past six months or year are the ones where you're constantly hearing people harp on what donald trump has said, or done, or the latest tweet. >> the president appearing to refer to kim jong-un as "rocket man." he also retweeted this fan fiction video of trump hitting what seems to be hillary clinton with a golf ball. frank: over and over and over, it's fine to ask about that, it's fine to confront and push. the media, journalists, should do that.
it. it's that they should also, must also, make time to ask the why questions, the how does it work question, the what's the problem here question, the what are the trade-off questions. sharyl: what can people learn from this, who aren't in the media? frank: how to ask. how to listen. i think we need to change the term "q&a" to "q&l." so ask a question and really listen. not just to formulate a response, but to deeply understand. i think that empathetic questioning, where we're really trying to understand our partner, our colleague, our employee, our elected leaders, those we serve, are the most neglected and most important questions of all. that's why people pay to go to therapists, because that really is empathetic questioning to draw you out. we need more of that. and so, really good questioning prompts us to slow down and get to know somebody. listen, maybe be comfortable with silence.
and get in touch with ourselves, question ourselves too, challenge ourselves. sharyl: did i ask the right questions today? frank: you asked brilliant questions. [laughter] sesno bandai were reporters that cnn together years ago. sesno says one of the frustrations for reporters today is getting politicians away from prepared talking points. he says persistence can pay off, eventually. next on "full measure" -- there's a lot of talk about the fi this season do your holiday shopping on us. introducing the monumental gift shop at mgm national harbor. just use your m life rewards card when you play now through november 7. the more you play, the more gift bucks you'll earn to redeem for monumental gifts like jewelry and electronics. come in today and play to earn your private shopping event for the holidays. play to win. win to shop. the monumental gift shop at mgm national harbor. now through november 7. this is monumental.
sharyl: a social media alternative to twitter, called gab, is suing google, saying the internet giant falsely labeled it a hate speech forum. google has banned gab from its popular store that sells applications. earlier this year, in our cover story the "sum of knowledge," we introduced you to gab founder andrew torba. the former silicon valley worker says the industry colleagues discriminated against him when they learned he was a trump supporter. he started gab promising not to limit legal speech, saying conservative voices are routinely suppressed on social media. torba told us gab has been smeared as alt-right and white supremacist, even though his co-founder is a turkish muslim who opposed trump. the lawsuit claims google has an unfair, monopolistic advantage over startups like his and is violating antitrust law. the head of google's parent company, alphabet, worked on the hillary clinton campaign. alphabet was clinton's second largest donor. gab has about 268,000 users.
next week on "full measure" -- in 1972, title ix was passed to open up women's college athletics and put them on the same competitive field as men. it was supposed to stop discrimination against women in all areas of education. the obama administration refocused it to target cases of alleged sexual assault. now the trump administration is changing course. laura kipnis: colleges just went crazy to try to stay in compliance and what that meant was they just abandoned due process, first of all, for those accused students and professors. and the horror stories that have come out have been really shocking. sharyl: "rethinking title ix" is scott thuman's cover story next week. before we go this week, a big welcome to new stations carrying "full measure" and joining the sinclair group. thanks for watching. stations stretching from california to north carolina. welcome aboard. until then, we'll be looking for more stories that hold powers accountable. thanks for
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