boehner over the weekend has refused to do that. he is standing firm with house conservatives, says he doesn't have the votes to pass it anyway. many people including the white house believe that such a bill could pass easily. this public relations strategy to try to put -- try to get the public behind the white house and democratic efforts to pressure john boehner. going to fema talking about what's needed there talking about the dire impact that this shut down is having. >> mike viqueira joining us live from washington. mike, thank you very much. >>> libby casey covering capitol hill for us. libby has congress made any compromise towards a compromise or are we as mike mentioned marching towards that debt ceiling? >> we are not seeing any sign of compromise. we are in the middle of the are shut down and the debt ceiling, coming ten days away. this may be the quiet, the calm between these two very serious storms. i loved it when you said they are fieting their battle through the media. both sides making their arguments. hearing more

that may hurt boehner in his own caucus. but i think at this point, i think trying to construct -- you know, it's clear nancy pelosi controls at least 190 votes in the house. boehner controls about 30, near as i can tell. >> exactly. >> maybe at this stage it's better to, you know, not stick the knife in, rub salt in the wound, but to try to bring him in and see if they can come up with a budget agreement that is an honorable compromise. >> somehow workable. chairman of the center for american progress john podesta, thank you as always. after the break, according to a new poll, a vast majority of tea partiers do not think tomorrow's debt ceiling deadline is a big deal. you know, the deadline that could trigger default and possibly global turmoil. we'll discuss the right flank's problem with facts when economist justin wolfers joins us. that's next on "now." across america people are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes with non-insulin victoza®. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar, but it didn't get me to m

but ultimately, it rests with speaker boehner. he's got to decide, as congressm congressman van hollen said, he's got to decide is he peeker of the far right republican right wing or speaker of the united states of america? >> mitch mcconnell stalled today. can you trust the guy? here all of a sudden boehner comes up with a proposal, and then mcconnell takes a step back from all of this when he was working so good with harry reid. is mcconnell still stalling in talks with reid? >> well, i don't know if he's stalling. i hope it's only a hiccup, it's only a bit of a delay when the clock is ticking on something so very, very important to our economic future and our reputation as a nation. i am still hopeful that mcconnell does the right thing here. i know he's faced with a difficult tea party primary in kentucky. we know what that makes politicians do sometimes, how fearful some can be. but i'm -- i believe that in the end mcconnell will do the right thing, work this out with reid, send it to the house. and it's up to john boehner to

three weeks ago john boehner wanted to cave on this. he's been forced by his caucus not to give that up. what is he supposed to discuss in a negotiation with the president? the president is going to say i'm not doing something that delays or defunds obama care. boehner has to say i'm not authorized to another gate on that. >> ryan lizza, you have a very good point. >> i want to add thing. >> >> the point i would make to you, are we dealing with essentially two quite weak leaders here? >> yes, look, i think there's something to that. i don't want to suggest that there aren't major differences between obama and boehner and a major problem with their relationship. there are incredible differences between the two parties. all i'm saying here is, we should never shut the government down and one party, whether it's democrats or republicans shouldn't use the threat of a shutdown to get their way to get their policy. all you have to do is pass a continuing resolution and 800,000 employees won't be out of jobs tomorrow or at least temporarily. i

what a tragic figure john boehner is becoming. of thein as the suon barkeep with 11 brothers and sisters. he wept at the time and he must be weeping now. how did this happen to me? >> the question is to go out with a blaze of glory, i am going to give up my speakership but we are going to move past this impasse and it must be attractive to him for the reasons margaret said. it is not like the job is that great. you're hanging onto a job where you are rick -- subject to ritual humiliations. >> he is saying we will not default on the debt. maybe this is his moment. >> the rollout of obamacare. >> more choices, more competition, and in many cases, lower prices. most uninsured americans will find they can get covered for $100 or less. >> and terms of news coverage, the shutdown completely overshadowed the very thing house republicans are trying to reverse, the affordable care act, obamacare. there were glitches as kathleen sebelius says, that we did not talk about that because we had this other thing, this huge elephant up here. >> fo

up next, speaker john boehner. we'll bring that to you live, straight ahead. [ male announcer ] this is claira. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her, she's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. [ claira ] after the deliveries, i was okay. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. [ groans ] all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. >>> we're awaiting a statement from house speaker john boehner any moment now. and here he comes. here he is. >> a pleasant conversation. although i have to say, i was disappointed that the president refuses to negotiate. when it comes to the issue of funding our government, the house has passed four bills. four bills to fund our government and provide fairness to the american people under obama care. each of those four bills was rej

so boehner moved on it today. the koch brothers know that obama care is popular, they are losing in the arena of public opinion. so let's move to something else. according to the latest gallup poll, republican favorability is at an all-time low at 28%. lower than whale manure on the bottom of the ocean. democrats are sitting at 43%. and i think it's pretty clear that the democrats are in a real position of strength here. they just have to realize it. i think that the koch brothers are basically saying drop this obama care thing because the big picture is the big three. this is what we've always wanted to go after the advertisements, the earned benefit programs. republicans think that having a six-week delay that they can swing public opinion against the president, it ain't about the president. it's about people who are sitting home and not working. this leaves them plenty of time to go after the targets that they have always wanted, social security, medicare and medicaid. that's what they want. that's what this is

john boehner has been preventing the entire time. that i think is what is so important here. and as you know -- from, from election night when you were predicting some of the debt ceiling shenanigans. when we looked in the senate. there are always people who vote against it. there were 66 republicans who voted against -- after they got the super committee sequester cut compromise, concessions the president realized he would never issue again. so the 49 members of the tea party. plus a couple other whackos, a nice term for what, what they're doing. may always be against this. the majority including republicans will hike it soon as john boehner gets out of the way of the majority rule. >> want to listen, to another thing, nan seep pelosi said today about what this has already cost us. let's listen to this. >> people are now going to pay more for their interest on loans for student loans, their mortgage, their car payments, their credit card bills. if they're small business owners they're going to pay more interest on their business loans. so, your interest will go up. and your

this a way boehner does not. he is facing a critical challenge from the right and greater general election challenge down the road as he gets through the primary. he is trying to make deals and making a fight against the secretary of state. mcconnell hauled in $2.3 million. in the same time period, 2.throw million. aside from connell being paralyzed, he signals he is ready to deal on the floor earlier this week. >> let me go over the remarks. we had a good day. i had a good day yesterday and another good day today. i think it's safe to say we faced substantial progress and we look forward to making more progress in the near future. >> nothing is done yet, but if the deal gets done, connell is starting on the right, but it's rare. we haven't seen many profiles on capitol hill lately and there is not great leadership going on, but the closest thing that qualifies, he is making a risky move and putting his own career on the line for something that has to get done. shouldn't go unnoticed. the people he loafs, the sen

your ford dealer. >> if john boehner can't control his caucus is anyone in charge? maybe the tortilla caucus according to roll call, in the basement of the tex-mex joint. a small group of house republicans had a not so secret, secret meeting with senator ted cruz. also, at tortilla coast at the time, house majority whip, republican kevin mccarthy. who was apparently not on the invite list to the secret meeting, but just happened to go to dinner there. a source told role call mccarthy seemed particularly interested in what the group was up to. i'll bet he was. ted cruz had no trouble finding the time to dine with house republicans last night. but today, ted cruz and mike lee failed to show up at the all-important senate republican lunch meeting where all republicans, senators have a chance to heard on the latest strategy ted cruz's office and why he missed the single most important thing on his schedule today. the statement said that cruz "had a previous commitment that went long." joining me now, nbc news capitol hill correspondent, like russert, and former congress

john boehner needs 217 to pass a clean bill. so by our count, he is short. there are five republicans who are, for lack of a better way to say it, squishy on this issue. but the thing to keep in mind is even though technically, when you go down number by number, we don't have the votes, two things. one is this is very much a chicken or the egg situation. several republicans have not said publicly that they are -- they would vote for this, and won't do so because why take the political risk if john boehner isn't going to put this on the floor. the other point i would like to make that is i was talking to a senior republican source today who said point blank the main reason john boehner is not putting this on the floor is because that would be the end of his speakership. >> gloria borger is here with us as well and ryan lizza, our contributor from the "new yorker" magazine. a quick follow-up on that. all 200 democrats, every single one, 200 democrats in the house, they are now committed that they would vote in favor of what's called this clean c.r., this resol

boehner right? >> first of all, you have to understand that i think john boehner's talking about the whole question of the continuing resolution to fund the government. i don't think i hear the speaker talking about the debt limit. i think he made a fairly declarative statement on that. the president is linking the two together because he knows whether it be the continuing resolution or the debt ceiling, the republicans get the blame for anything perceived to go wrong. he's very happy in this configuration. he wants nothing settled. the whole world is talking about the mean nasty republicans. he's got a chance to put on a pupg c punctuation on that and doesn't have to defend obama care which he's been afraid of that october 1 would come and he's been talking about obama care. luckily for help he doesn't have to talk about that big massive bell where bill where he failed the american people. he can talk about the nastiness of the republicans. no interest in resolving this situation. >> and howard dea

. >> poor john boehner. poor john boehner. he is in the middle of this republican party civil war. there is a war now going on in the republican party, between the old school republicans and the tea party. and the tea party is running the show. the republican party is like the corpse in "weekend at bernie's." and the tea party is like the two guys who put sunglasses and a party hat on it and drag it around. >> and many on twitter were surprised to find the popular game show "family feud" seemed to be getting in on the action with some harsh words for boehner. quote, speaker boehner stop letting extremists sabotage your economy. end the tea party shutdown now. don't let ted cruz run the u.s. as it turned out, the show says its account was hacked. and the tweet has been taken down. next up, he may have his hands full, but that didn't stop president obama to weigh in on a longtime washington debate. the name over the washington redskins. for years, many have said it's ethnic stereotyping. while the team defenders say it's a test to the courage of the american indians. here's what the

but boehner also has to lead. he cannot allow -- you've talked a lot today about minority of minority. he can't allow them to continue to throw temper tantrums to get what they want. he's got to rule, he's got to lead. and we've got to move this agenda forward. we cannot continue with these shutdown politics. there are people not working and economies suffering because of it. >> all right. angela rye, robert costa and jonathan altar. thanks to you. >>> the president is about to meet with house democrats. we'll talk to a member of congress on her way to the white house. stay with us. hey america, even though she doesn't need them, cheryl burke is cha-cha-ing in depend silhouette briefs for charity, to prove that with soft fabric and waistband, the best protection looks, fits, and feels just like underwear. get a free sample and try for yourself. they don't know it yet, but they're gonna fall in love, get married, have a couple of kids, [ children laughing ] move to the country, and live a long, happy life together

boehner. we're expecting the speaker to walk out any moment to make a final statement after what has been an incredibly long few hours there, i guess, for everybody in congress. as soon as that happens, we'll bring it to you live here on cnn. but despite all of the rancor, joe, there was agreement on one issue. >> reporter: that's right. that one issue was agreeing, the member of the armed forces would be paid in the event of a government shutdown. funding for their salaries for fiscal year 2014. the president issued a video statement about that. listen. >> those of you in uniform will remain on your normal duty status. the threats to our national security have not changed and we need you to be ready for any contingency. ongoing military operations, like our efforts in afghanistan, will continue. if you're serving in harm's way, we're going to make sure you have what you need to succeed in your missions. >> reporter: that bill the president's referring to was passed by both the house and senat

john boehner was there a moment ago. i want to get straight -- mitch mcconnell, i believe, is speaking. he is getting into his suv. let me get straight to jim acosta who is at the white house. we saw john boehner speak. who else spoke? a 90-minute meeting. what happened? >> all we've seen so far, you caught me poking down the driveway for a few moments. all we've seen so far is house speaker john boehner coming out of west wing. he gave a very brief statement saying at this point, the white house will not negotiate over this shutdown that is now into day two. obviously, house republicans would like to see some sort of concession on obama care. the president, if you listen to what john bain her to say right after this meeting, the white house is not offering that. what john boehner said, he still wants to have conferrees pointed. what does that mean? what house republican wos like to have the senate do is send members from the senate into a joint house senate conference to try to work out some sort of agreement. senate de

more than john boehner does. and that's why boehner turned tail. this isn't just if you do what we want you to do we will contribute money to your campaign or if you don't do, then maybe we will run some ads against you. as david is saying they are the ones with all the influence among the base. it's not really the outside groups that these congressmen are fearing. it is the rabid republican base in their districts coming up and showing up at town halls and screaming at them. >> listen, you can't count on outside groups. >> david, there used to be a center of both parties that resisted the impulses that were coming from the left edge of the party and there was also a conservative edge of the democratic party represented by senators that we no longer have. and just like the republican party used to have the different factions. this thing you describe as just a handful. >> john boehner has absolutely no leverage over this radical band of jackals within his own party. they worry about coke money. they don't want it against them. they don't care about

it has been a long, tough few weeks for john boehner. what the speaker of the house has been through and other personalities behind tonight's budget deal when we come back. >>> recent struggles put a bright spotlight on john boehner. the skbreerk admitted he had fought a good fight but lost. tonight chief political correspondent looks at personalities and politics behind the deal to end the stalemate. >> john boehner is the nation's third ranking constitutional officer after the vice president as speaker of the u.s. house, his job to ensure national business gets done on time like a budget, paying bills. boehner has been thwart bid senate democrats unwilling or unable to pass budget resolutions. but this year, reid and democrat dz complete a budget rejecting atempts by freshman republican senators to delay affordable care act as part of it. speaker boehner brought up 45 bills this this year, including such pro visions to fund the government and raise debt ceiling. senate democrats killed every measure, then, yesterday with clock ticking

that was a sad, dejected bonn boehner. that was a john boehner who had one thing to say. he is usually jovial with reporters, likes to talk. he didn't want anything to do with us tonight. he wanted to get to bed or plot the next move about how to keep the government open. as far as that question i posed to him, alex, one of the under reported stories here on the hill is these federal workers who will be furloughed. there's no guarantee they get their pay back. you are from d.c. you know how many federal workers there are in the dmv area. i was speaking to a few of them today and there is a real worry because of the appetite of cutting spending in congress you could see it go on a few dans these folks be presented with house saying why should we pay you for days you didn't work. but where we move on from here your guess is as good as mine. the idea to move from confer rhees, that prized them. they didn't see that coming. that was supposed to be the magic bullet that was supposed to solve this. harry reid will table that later on today. the idea is they have to pass a clean

speaker boehner comes in and says, basically, it's sort of like this. someone goes into your house, takes your wife and children hostage. and then, says, let's negotiate over the price of your house. you know, we could do the same thing on immigration. we believe strongly in immigration reform. we could say we're shutting down the government, we're not going to raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform. >> i know you believe, senator, that the speaker is going to blink, that the house republicans are going to blink. >> i do. >> if they do not, what happens on october 17th? is it preferable to have the default than the negotiations? >> the negotiation you have is one with a gun held to your head. it will lead to a future negotiation like that and a future one. if you go for this hostage-taking once, and the president did in 2011, it doesn't go away. it comes back worse and worse and worse. and the whole full faith and credit in the united states currency and the united states dollar, goes down the drain. it's the damage that's far greater

meantime, speaker boehner is the target of a new act by a democratic super pac. >> speaker john boehner didn't get his way on shutting down health care reform, so he shut down the government. >> we have one bright spot, a positive development with the pentagon calling 300,000 furloughed civilian workers back to work. chuck hagel saying they are essential to supporting the military. that still leads more than 400,000 government workers on furlough and without a paycheck. nbc news capitol hill correspondent luke russert joining us now. what are the chances speaker boehner will take up the president's challenge and hold the clean vote? >> reporter: zero as we stand right now. the speaker of the house was forceful in his interview on sunday show saying the votes aren't there in the house of representativeses. folks on the democratic side say it's not true. the popular conventional wisdom, if they did put it on the floor it would pass because of the fact of the matter, you saw 22 rpz on there. for boehner to strengthen his negotiating hand he wants to keep that out. where this is going and w

boehner set that vote for tonight. that all happened late this afternoon, and the next thing to happen was this. heritage action announced that it would score that vote, it's the political arm of jim demint's heritage foundation. reid has been calling the shutdown a temporary slowdown and we essentially told republicans in congress to keep it going. that left boehner with no choice but to call off the vote, not because he didn't want to pass a bill, not because he didn't want to get this all behind him but because he didn't have the votes. back to senator reid and back to senator mcconnell. there are reports that a deal is imminent. any deal they reach still has to get through the house. john boehner still has to somehow get it done. can he survive getting that done? why should anyone believe he can? he's not been able to do it so far. crashing through the debt ceiling would be -- where does john boehner get the votes to make ur it doesn't happen. joining us right now the robert costa, thanks for being here, robert u a

they have been pitying john boehner instead of this is the guy for hot. >> i don't know if john boehner is the face for messaging, they have tried to do that with with ted cruz. there a difference between boehner and pelosi, pelosi for the most time she was speaker was leading the caucus. boehner the most time as speaker has been following his caucus. he's not the decisive figure pelosi was before. all of this day to day tactical messaging wars, who is responsible for world war ii memorial or bigger boogie man or boogie woman for the american people, all of that, i think, as we get closer to the debt limit as the markets continue to decline because they become more nervous about this, all that is going to fade into the background. all these politicians in washington will have to look at themselves in the mirror and say how much damage am i willing to cause. i'm not talking 30 or 40 hard line people in the house who basically don't think default is a terrible thing or going over the debt limit is a terrible thing. leadership of the house, leadership of the senate, leadership of the white

does john boehner bring that up? and if he does bring it up, do democrats vote for that and does it pass? >> we have got to see what the final deal looks like, but essentially we're expecting something that we can vote for that comes from the senate that is a john boehner product. and john boehner has to decide whether or not he wants to let the full house vote and try to pass it with 218 votes of the whole house or whether he wants to cling to his speakership and insist on it being 217 votes from his members, driven by tea party extremists who think -- who have literally separated themselves from reality. >> people should beware of the math here. if john boehner wants to pass something with just republican votes, he's only about 18 votes he can lose, and there's 80 people that signed the letter to defund obama care. so if nancy pelosi says i'm not giving you any democratic votes and john boehner only has to pass it with republicans, he basically has to bring it to the floor and get democrats to bail him out. >> he c

help boehner get less than they want or cripple boehner and achieve total defeat. i think it's going to be a very, very important evening. and i wouldn't be surprised to see it run over into tomorrow. >> it's a critical evening. look at what we saw today, another credit agency, fitch, said we're on the verge of another credit downgrade of the united states, all because congress can't fix the problem of raising the debt limit. they can't get their act together. if you remember, two weeks ago speaker boehner promised to shut down the government over obama care. i think the american people can't believe this. now look at where we are today. the deal that's on the table is about extending the debt limit, but telling congressional staff that they're not going to get their employer health care. is it all worth it? i want to ask if it's all worth it to two members of the house maryland democrat and iowa republican. congressman king, we've now been warned that a downgrade is possible. this is the first speaker. if this happens, this will be the first speaker to see two dow

boehner said all i want to do is talk. the president offered off rack in which he said i will accept any length of extension meaning i'll extend just a technical one, a short one, couple of weeks. that offer to compromise could start negotiations. he gets a debt ceiling increase so he can say now i can talk. boehner is able to engage in negotiations with what would be a trivial extension whether next week, three weeks. that's irrelevant. that seemed to be the basis. today carney reiterated that obvious offer when he was asked will the president sign a short term signing of the debt limit even if he doesn't get a clean cr, ie opening up of the government. the answer was yes. so boehner has his offer. he goes in to see the president. you expect that you would then have six week extension and discuss all issues. what seems to have happened now there are demands from the president on the reopening of the government which was not what they said earlier in the week which is why i think they're stuck now. i think the republicans

so it's possible that boehner may have changed his proposal. the big question mark, will president obama accept his proposal? i've been talking to senior administration officials who say the president isn't weighing in, and the white house isn't really going to weigh in until they actually see what is on the table. and then of course the other big question here, the other big question, boehner's caucus support and signoff on any deal to increase the debt limit. a lot of people scratching their heads about why lawmakers would offer something that would increase the debt limit and not reopen the government. the easy answer is defaulting on the nation's loans would be an economic catastrophe. treasury secretary jack lew was testifying about that earlier today. but of course anger is mounting with the fact that the government continues to be shut down, now in its tenth day. i have spoken to some republicans on the hill who tell me when they were meeting with house speaker john boehner earlier today they expressed concern this plan doesn't include a

boehner's playing with fire. he's putting all the progress on the line in an effort to tarnish the president, injure the economy and put it on his legacy. and one more thing about these truckers. there are 3.5 million truckers across this country. okay, 3,000 are going to show up. i had a boatload call my radio show today. here's one of them. >> i'm an independent trucker. i drive across the country. and i have no health care. i have a preexisting condition. i sold everything, i liquidated. i've got myself down to where i can scratch out a living. i'm one of the lucky ones, i guess. but on that note, on october 1st, i was tickled pink because i was able to get my insurance back. >> so when the beckster says that we've got to support these people, which ones is he talking about? republicans versus wage earners again. if you're a trucker, may i ask you tonight, what in the hell have republicans done for you? they have let subsidies run wild to the oil companies. they have done nothing to reel in the speculation on

john boehner tells democrats they need to talk. the secretary of state arrives in asia for two summits in place of the president. plus gearing up for tropical storm karen with hears it could turn into a hurricane. >>> the federal government has been shutdown for four days and both sides still refuse to budge, meaning the shutdown could last for some time. house speaker john boehner has denied reports that he'll allow a democratic vote to pass a debt ceiling increase. the president has canceled trips to asia. we have two reports, randall pinkston is in washington, but we begin with libby casey on capitol hill. libby, good afternoon, what is the latest from the hill? >> well the house continues to take this series of votes to fund individual parts of government. today they are focused on fema and the national weather service. and then they will be in at work tomorrow morning voting on getting those furloughed government workers back pay. they passed the house, but they won't go anywhere in the senate. the other body said we're lookin

figure johnc boehner is becoming. coming in as the son of the barkeep who swept the floor and with 11 brothers and sisters. he wept at the time and he must be weeping now. to go outstion is if with a blaze of glory, i am going to give it my speakership but we are going to move past this impasse and it must be attractive to him. it is not like the job is that great. you're hanging onto a job where are subject to ritual humiliation. >> this is his moment. >> the rollout of obamacare. competition, more and more prices. most uninsured americans will get covered for $100 or less. >> in terms of news coverage the shutdown overshadowed the very thing house republicans are trying to reverse, the affordable care act, obamacare. there were glitches as kathleen sebelius says. we did not talk about that because we had this other thing, this huge elephant appear. up here. >> fox talks about this a lot. part of the pie. were really overwhelmed. if you go back and look at massachusetts what happened when they did this, they had abou

the treasonist, john boehner. they will shut down the government and they will not pay the bills to get their way. >> what about williams and brokaw and lawyerer think of this knucklehead. >> i've got to tell you, sean, that's what carl marx believed. >> and today's top trender, ryan's hope. >> i'm very proud of my pro life record. >> paul ryan adds the war on women into the shutdown debate. >> we need to completely rethink government's role in health care. >> there is an extreme faction in the house of representatives that just can't let this go. >> we don't want a country where abortion is simply outlawed. we want a country where it isn't even considered. >> so sean hannity goes to name calling on big eddy. sean, wherever you want to debate, you name the place, the time, you can even take the gate, because i know you like doing that kind of stuff, okay? come on. give me a chance, sean. let's see if i'm the knucklehead that you think i am. let's have a debate, handy. certainly you're punching up, in my opinion. i

>> well, speaker boehner will bring it to the floor. he has said all along he will not allow there not to be an increase in the debt ceiling. that is something that is prudent. he's concerned about the markets, as we all are. i think the real issue at the table is what goes beyond this. this is a temporary fix. we need to be addressing the longer issue and that's the out of control spending. if you're taking in two and a half trillion but spending three and a half trillion, you have a problem. we have a $60 trillion unfunded mandates. this has to be addressed. >> why isn't anybody addressing it, though? why is everybody so hamstrung over the aca, a law that was vetted by both houses of congress, that was sent up and vetted by the supreme court, that the president was re-elected on. it seems like the republicans have backed themselves into a corner over something that the people have spoken out that they are in favor for over and over again. that's why we're in the shutdown. but now we get pushed up as hostages, american hostages get pus

then he brings up a clean cr and gets it to boehner, boehner doesn't feel confident he won't be attacked directly by cruz, cruz will lay down his gun for a couple days and this thing gets done. is there any chance they'll agree to a cease-fire between cruz and boehner? and i don't think john boehner has to go on bended knee to ted cruz. john boehner, what he has to do is work through this problem, come up with a solution and most importantly we've got to get the presidential to start negotiating. we've got to get a deal. this is not just about this short-term budget deal. it's also about the debt limit -- >> okay. let's go -- let's talk about a deal. i agree. let's talk about a deal. let's forget the cr and go to the real fight, which is going to be over the debt ceiling. what can he give them besides dismembering health care? is there something on the outside he could say look, we're going to deal with the corporate tax reform? we're going to deal with entitlement reform, we're going to do something, but i just can't give you the health care, i'll give you something else? is there an ou

hint hint speaker boehner. if you want to do this in five weeks, a five-week window here to force negotiations, so you can say you got the president to negotiate, as long as you pass the clean -- temporary clean funding bill and debt ceiling height for even a small period of time, he'll sign it. the white house spent all day yesterday throwing out these hints in various ways. i suspect we're going to hear the president in some ways say the same thing. so i'm sort of befuddled here. i think boehner has a way out if he wants to take this. >> that's the big question. >> i don't know if he wants to take it or if he can. >> that's the point. right, david? we don't know if boehner -- whether boehner feels like he can put an end to this or whether there needs to be a "d" fault on our debt. >> we don't know if he's driving the car. the car up to now has been hijacked by 30 or 40 tea partiers in the house, ted cruz in the senate. and don't forget koch brother stoked right wing groups for the past months spending tens of

that was boehner's position months ago. he had to climb down from that if he wants to keep his speakership. but in the republican party where the president has few friends, john boehner, as weak as he is is one of the only people that president obama can talk to on the republican side. >> i agree. >> who is in the room with the tea party people. >> here's the question. when is that coalition formed? when is the president and the speaker going to say down the road whatever they're talking about, when are they going to ice a deal and say we can never get a deal with ted cruz. he doesn't want a deal. he wants to destroy the president. don't you think that john boehner knows that? >> of course he does. john boehner and ted cruz come from two completely different planets in terms of their view of their responsibilities and their approach to politics and their ideology. they are farther apart than many democrats were from 10 to 15 years ago. >> do you see this thing? you don't remember the republican party howard and i remember,

what would a gutsy john boehner do? now back to you who are watching this craziness from some distance. the republicans' latest offer would reopen the government but only until december 15th. then would come just before christmas and the holidays another big government shutdown with all the trimmings. just to get that far, the right wing of the republican caucus is filling the president's bags with more lumps of coal. matters so small they don't deserve mention. joining me right now is congresswoman donna edwards of maryland. i want you to try and explain to the people out there who are trying to understand this, what is the republican caucus officially led by john boehner although i don't think he has his heart in it. this attempt you add on more to the load that we have to end up dumping in two days from now. making it harder and harder through all these new additions to the deal if there is one that there won't be a deal. your thoughts. what are they up to? >> i would love to be able to tell you, but what i think of

a little room and perhaps with this going as far as it has, that boehner can retreat and then boehner can give something to the tea party republicans so they don't think it's a complete failure. >> is this something an agreement of raising the debt ceiling for six weeks and then having the discussion? is that the something that dan n move. >> speaker boehner is counting votes. he is counting how many rum republicans may vote against me or spark a new speakership election if i give in to president obama. >> that is about personal politics. david shuster with us. let's get a check on weather now. >> good afternoon i'm meteorologist david warren. they things are a little cooler these are frost and freeze advisories. cooler air here and there is coastal flooding with a storm that is vej. one thing you will notice is a chill in the air. it's calm and the temperature will drop into the 30s. you can see frost on servicings and temperatures down to freezing across the northeast and new england. here is the storm that is developing. area of low pressure off the coast of north and south carolin

ending john boehner's tenure as speaker. and if that happens, i don't think we'll see a lot of laughing over in the gop. joining me now is cynthia tucker. thanks for being here tonight. >> good to be here, reverend. >> cynthia, is this poll a wakeup call for the gop? can't they see they're heading for disaster in the elections. >> there have been many wakeup calls along the way, and they don't seem to have awakened yet. they were warned for months that a government shutdown would not work out well for them. there are veterans, veteran republicans who remember how badly the shutdown went for republicans in the '90s. when they tried to force bill clinton to do things their way. it worked out very poorly for them. so they were warned. the same thing is happening this time around. it's effecting not only republicans in the m swing districts, it's also effecting the virginia governors race. ken cuccinelli is now very afraid that his chances are even worse than they were because virginians are sick of this republican shutdown. and

i like john boehner, a great patriot. but negotiating with john boehner is like negotiating with kermit the frog instead of jim hensen. you need puppeteer, not the puppet. he has allowed himself to be the puppet of the party. he could go to the house and let the housework think will the way the vast majority want to do. it is this tea party fringe that has been wagging the dog, pardon my mixing may metaphors, tea party tale. and someday, john boehner will pull on his big boy pants. do you think john boehner has overplayed his hand? >> i would not talk about bill >> i would not talk about bill clinton's pants like that? honestly. i think that's a little bit of a low. a little bit of a low blow. john bainer could put a clean cr on the floor. sure. but the ultimate point is that the republicans are united on obama care. and obama care is a central policy difference between these two sides. the difference between 1995 and 2013, in 2005, we were only talking about money. this is talking about a fundamental change in the way pe

of course boehner wouldn't specify. what we're hearing from paul ryan and others is the grand bargain and sbientitlements. at a basic level, i think democrats are objecting to the idea that either of these things should be a continuing point of lempl for republicans now or for any party in the future. again, i think that puts -- the onus is on boehner to see if he can get all the republicans in the who us to line up behind this. that's an open question because if he has to start dealing with democrats to get this through, their price is going to be a lot higher than this. >> steve kornacki, so great to have you here with me to roll with the punches. we have david corn from mother jones and msnbc political analyst, sabrina is a reporter for the huffington post and v viviana. i want to get you on record. david, let me start with you. your reaction to what you were able to hear from speaker boehner there and the rest of his republican colleagues talking about the fact that they are willing to offer the temporary extension

i think we all know it's not the boehner shut down. boehner doesn't want the shut down. anyway. >> i think if you keep that all together yesterday, it was not great news for federal employees because it's going to last a while. better news for the full faith and credit of the country because it counts like if you put it all together, you can find a way to get out. >> obviously a lot of the business leaders of the country were relieved that boehner turned to 20, 30 people and said listen, you guys are not going to screw with the full faith and credit of the united states of america. >> it showed courage for the speaker. it was just how i think the president what he was trying to say given the benefit of the doubt and i agree with, but it doesn't help boehner to have the president claim that he is being held hostage, even if it's partial low true. >> right. >> at the same time have the speaker say i'm responsible and mature enough to know there certain things we cannot do. you would hope the bigger, smarter heads can come together. the thing during the speech -- >> you wan

coming up next, where do john boehner's loyalties lie? as the end game approaches, will the speaker stand up to the demands of the hard liners in his caucus? coming up. ♪ wow...look at you. i've always tried to give it my best shot. these days i'm living with a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem. at first, i took warfarin, but i wondered, "could i up my game?" my doctor told me about eliquis. and three important reasons to take eliquis instead. one, in a clinical trial, eliquis was proven to reduce the risk of stroke better than warfarin. two, eliquis had less major bleeding than warfarin. and three... unlike warfarin, there's no routine blood testing. [ male announcer ] don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it

john boehner and barack obama, john boehner and harry reid. there's just not a warmth of barack obama in congress generally, democrats and republicans. so that complicates what is already going to be a difficult policy and political fight, the lack of sort of trust that exists, that's always been the core of how these things ultimately got done and it's just not there. >> chris, the president will have a lot of time to call them over for chats because he's not going to asia this weekend. that does it for us for this edition of quts andrea mitchell reports." msnbc will follow every detail of the shutdown and any negotiations that take place, you'll have it here. follow the show at mitchell reports on twitter. >> hi, andrea, have a great weekend. new information on the mother who led police on the deadly chase through the nation's capitol, including the delusions investigators say may have driven her to those actions. plus, we'll have an update on her child. capitol hill police applauded for their quick response in the middle of the shutdown, wh

i think that's a misconception about speaker boehner. when you watch him in action every day, this is someone who is an independent thinker, used to be a committee chairman, but when it comes to being speaker of the house, he very much walks in step with the right. >> i want to play a clip for you of sheldon whitehouse saying why he's untroubled by a temporary continuing resolution and a temporary raising of the debt ceiling for only four months because he thinks republicans have learned a political lesson from this. listen. >> the republicans, and particularly the tea party republicans, really burned their hands on this hot stove, and the idea that in january they're going to want to grab it again and burn themselves all over again doesn't seem very likely. i think they learned a lesson from the damage that they did to our country with this latest stunt. >> do you think he's right? >> partially. i think republicans privately look at the poll numbers and they see 74% of americans are dissatisfied with the way they're operating. they're a