the idea of rick perry ul p better than rick perry himself. >> he saw his numbers drop from double to single digits. the polls have him at 6%. he takes aims at former massachusetts governor, mitt romney. >> i consider him to be a fat cat but it doesn't matter to me what anybody says about this. i know what will work. >> what he thinks will work is his flat tax plan. it includes giving taxpayers a choice. stick with the current rate or take a flat rate of 20%, reducing the corporate rate to 20%. allowing younger workers to opt out of social security and capping spending to 18%. >> for those at the top, it is hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars for them. >> but i don't care about that. >> something else perry claims not to care about, the so-called birther issue he helped revive. >> that's all a distraction. i get it. i am really not worried about the president's birth certificate. it is fun to poke at him a little bit. >> a good candidate who is trying to do a relaunch around an issue like taxes does not allow this thing to step on every headline. >> cnbc's chief washington

perry with immigration. the difference with christie is this, if you watch him in action, there's this authenticity. he has the effect on republicans. he makes them want to like him. they work backwards and rationalize a way to like him. >> i think that personality could come back to really be a detriment. joe, what do you think? >> i agree. that's style over substance. i mean, and see, that's why the democrat -- president obama is really sitting back. he doesn't have to say a word because they -- it's a circular firing squad. they'll start shooting at each other and by the time you look up, whoever's left, you can talk about moving to the center or the establishment, but it will be one hell of a republican convention because the tea party folks are not going to stand for it. >> one quick answer from both of you. joe, does rick perry get past this latest controversy of his hunting ranch? >> i think this -- you know, to answer, my feeling is, no. because i don't think he has the consciousness that it would ta

governor perry is in iowa. we have a producer with him, he's at a barbecue in iowa, if he says anything we'll turn it around as quickly as possible. you say it's a burden on governor perry to say more. how does governor romney deal with this in the age of theness net, everything else, this will be circulated especially into places liiowa and south carolin. a new poll in new hampshire, wmur has mitt romney way ahead in new hampshire. if he can local that decent in iowa, he needs to win south carolina, he's on his way, that is going to be the biggest question mark. >> john, i think in a context of tomorrow, he doesn't want to continue stirring this controversy up. he's going to be asked about it in some interviews and then he needs to address it. and i think he'll have answers that will be persuasive for most americans, probably not all. it may be that sometime later in the campaign just as john kennedy had to give a speech, as you remember in texas to christian ministers, really compelling speech about his relig

the latest gop poll shows perry is floundering. they have romney at 30%, cain at 26%, perry at 13%. so you have romney who people say flip-flops and perry's just flopping. >> that's true. he very much is. he came in with so much energy and fanfare and shot to the top of the polls immediately. and then those debate performances that were so poor really affected his candidacy and of course romney was all too happy to point that out in the debate saying that no wonder perry was getting so testy in those debates, because he had so many poor debate performances. but i think in some ways this does play into the white house's hands. i got some e-mails -- >> what does it mean for the president? >> i got e-mails from democrats who were very happy with the way mitt romney especially came off in this debate. he came off as out of touch, like the harvard hall monitor who knew everything, calling on anderson cooper to rescue him as he was in this debate with rick perry. so they were very happy with the way he came off especially. and i think just in general all the republicans up there really bi

they like it that perry, at least perry people hope they do, they like it that perry is not afraid of obama. that he's going to poke obama. that he's the guy that will go after obama. that really is a more fundamental message in this birther -- this birther kind of clown show, frankly. >> in terms of what you have seen from him in previous campaigns, politico is reporting that texas republicans are slow even to endorse perry this time or around. of course, he is way down at 6%. have you ever seen perry this far behind in a race with so little support from his party? is there any way to know how he will react? >> no. he finished 39% in the election six, eight years ago. i have never really seen him that far behind. the only time i've seen him an underdog in a statewide election was 1990 against jim hightower. very popular republican. with karl rove's help on rick perry's side, you had karl rove leaking to newspapers including our own information and testimony from a secret grand jury investigating the agriculture department raising questions about corruption. stories in the newspaper.

while rick perry was running the program, perry repeatedly told this lie. this has not cost texans money. in fact, the program cost texans -- texas taxpayers $50 million in bad loans and then governor perry once he became governor had the pleasure in 2009 of signing his own government bailout of the failed loan program he ran when he was agriculture socialism commissioner. an auditor found that perry had guaranteed loans to applicants with a negative net worth. have you ever tried to get a loan with a negative net worth? these are applicants who couldn't have paid back those loans. the auditor found that perry had violated the lending guidelines. perry's successor, susan colmes, also a republican, found the program in such hopeless condition that she simply stopped making agriculture socialism loans. now, good socialists like me like good socialism. programs that work as designed that we simply couldn't live without like unemployment insurance, social security, medicare. but bad socialists like rick perry, like bad socialism, like agriculture socialism and

perry. and again not even close. griffin perry did have to give us his job at deutch bank because he's been raising money for his father's campaign and the securities and exchange commission has rules governing political activities. in other words to keep people who may want to get investments in a state pension program like the one in texas from trying to buy political sway through campaign contributions. those rules were tightened effective last year because of shenanigans too many to mention related to the 2008 mortgage mess and broader financial meltdown. griffin perry, the son in question, told abc news recently, he decided to put his career on hold to help his dad. he said it was his choice. so for mrs. perry to say "my son lost his job because of this administration" doesn't pass the truth test. or to borrow, you might say it's all hat and no cattle. >>> breaking news over the scandal involving the obama's administration's multimillion dollar payment loan to a company. [ male announcer ] what if we told you th

perry folks. they hunker down and go block by block and do old fashioned blocking and tackling when it comes to campaigning. that's why folks shouldn't write him off. >> they should not write him off. but he has a serious challenge from michele bachmann in iowa. she's been there longer. has been to more towns, knows more people. she could win iowa. >> one more thing before you go, watching herman cain, whenever he's had a chance to take a shot at perry, he's taken it. he took personal offense to this story. it gave the story legs, made it harder for the perry people to write it off as the liberal media coming to get a southern politician. mccain benefitted from people like mike huckabee who didn't like romney. how much does that benefit romney that herman cain and santorum, michele bachmann all have a problem with perry, not romney now. >> perry entered the race and became the front-runner although he never was. he was first in the national polls. if romney becomes the front runner they will all p

perry has a following. the fact that matthew said that he didn't do well in debates, again, he is going to grow as a candidate if he wins the nomination. romney is going to grow as a candidate. herman cain is going to grow as a candidate if he wins the nomination. >> is cain, does he have sticking power? >> i think the problem is, cain, attractive though he is and intelligent, his 9-9-9 program, i think he has a low ceiling. >> can i ask haley a question? >> please. >> haley, george will, in the last five election cycles the republican presidential candidate have received 79% of their electoral votes from the south. that -- weigh that against the fact that these elections have to be won or loss in the north, obama has to carrying three of four of these states, ohio, pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin. all of which elected republican governors in 2010. now, do you think that rick perry is a good candidate to win those states in the north? >> look, he's had a very good record as the governor of texas. been

and for team perry, bobby jindal, the republican governor of louisiana who endorsed governor perry of his neighboring state of texas last month. welcome to both you. governor pawlenty, i have to ask you, any regrets about getting out of th republican race? >> , i have no regrets. we took it as far as we could, and for me it meant we had to fold up the tent. but i'm really excited and honored to be supporting mitt romney. the number one issue in this race going to be who can get this economy going and jobs going, and he is the best candidate to do that by far. >> you did say recently the decision you made after iowa was perhaps premature. did yo look at the complion of this race now, you think you cou have stayedin and been a contender? >> that was in reference to some tactical decisions we had made during the campaign, not the decision to get out. certainly not the decision to support mitt. >> all right, let's talk about negatives on both sides. because thes are negatives that have to be dealt with and overcome at this stage of the race. you heard from herman cain, who is now, accordi

. >> what are you smoking, rick perry? >> it is supposed to be taxation tuesday for rick perry. the moment when he reveals his plans for a flat tax for all americans. i'm afraid we must start with the candidate who is smoking up the charts. the got father himself, herman cain. in a brand-new "new york times" poll leads with a full quarter of voters, cruising past mitt romney's 21%. just weeks ago, the two were tied at 17%. the cain train is not only driving the polls, but pushing the gop in terms of policy and influencing the other candidates, jumping on the 9-9-9 bandwagon, the flat tax is the centerpiece of rick perry's plan as announced in the battle ground state of south carolina. today the cain campaign has everyone a twitter. not about taxes, but tobacco as featured in a new web ad. take a look. >> we have run a campaign like no one has seen and america has never seen a candidate like herman cain. together we can do this and take this country back. . >> the somewhat disheveleds smoker in question is mark block, cain's campaign manager and a man with a smoking gun of his ow

let's switch to perry right now. you know, perry came out swinging, as we all know and from watching the debate and so did romney. is there any reaction to that moment that romney, you know, when he put his hand on perry's shoulder and was element schooling perry in that situation? >> i haven't add chance to go back and check the tapes yet but a rm knee aid told me there is a moment from a another debate where perry put his arm on romney so they say he played the personal space card first. i think that's a seminole moment, certainly an image of last night's debate. leaving las vegas, a giant photo on the front page of the las vegas review journal. >> all right. garrett haake. appreciate your time today. i know you got to get on that flight, you are already on that flight, we will talk to you again soon. >> coming to you from seat 10 d. >> well done. then herman cain charging hard in the polls. it could hurt in the end. for more, we go to andrew raverty. good day to you. the debate began with herman cain getting it fr

i know what governor perry said. but with pastor jeffress, are you going to accept his endorsement of the governor? does the governor want the endorsement of folks who call mormonism a cult? >> i'm not sure we can do anything about that. we get support from all kinds of folks. i think what you need to pay attention to is what the governor has to say. he made his position clear. this in our view is a distraction from the issues at hand. the economy, job creation, and is not a constructive debate to be having right now. >> is it fair to say we won't see pastor jeffress as a surrogate for the perry campaign? that we won't see him introducing governor perry at future events? >> well, that introduction was determined by voters. we didn't know he was going to make those remarks which happened, by the way, after it. unrelated. again, we want to get back to job creation, economy, and the governor's conservative record and not be distracted by those issues. which really aren't good for anybody. >> i want to go to the economy

debate stumbles to frame perry. how do you think perry should do this for romney? >> well i guess perry is clearly trying to align his argument against romney using the flip-flop argument, using the illegal immigration as a specific issue in particular. you know, here's the problem. there's not anything new in any of the things that perry thus far has put forward. i mean, these are issues that romney has already had to confront and deal with so he's prepared to handle them again. i think the issue for perry is, it's very clear, you know, that he is good on the attack, but what does he stand for? what idea is he putting forward and the latest ridiculousness of reigniting the whole birther controversy really shows he doesn't have much of his own in terms of fresh ideas or policy proposals he can campaign on, only campaigning against mitt romney. >> right, and for those of you who might not be that familiar with the whole birther issue, coming back into the spotlight, we're going to throw up a couple of graphics so you

ken herman, you've known rick perry and covered rick perry longer than any of us. i want you to listen to the exchange last night. if you talk to the romney people today they'll say rick perry landed blows but this expoesd hip as mean-spirited. anderson cooper trying to get the governor to answer the question about the 14th amendment. >> let me ask a question, governor perry, the 14th amendment allows anybody a child of illegal immigrants born here is automatically an american citizen. should that change? >> let me address herman's issue -- >> i'd rather you ask the question -- answer that question mr. i understand that. you get to ask the questions and i get to answer like i want to. and herman, herman talked about -- >> that's a response. that's not an answer but go ahead. >> what did you see in governor perry last night? anything new or is this a familiar governor? >> no, it's a familiar governor. he's combative and people have asked me, is rick perry mean? and i guess the question is, which rick perry? the rick perry i've known professionally and casually for 2

i heard perry speak without a

and what a night between romney and perry. who won that one? >> well, i think perry lost that. romney held his own. i think what perry tried to do was to be the alpha male. he failed because romney kept in his face even as you pointed out, touching him. which is a very high unmale primate kind of thing. and perry ultimately had to back down because he wasn't prepared to brush romney's hand off his shoulder. there is nothing worse than being a failed alpha male. that's what happened. rox didn't look real pretty doing it but he stood his ground. and he had a few snarky but pretty clever lines in response. so i don't think romney was hurt much. i think perry continues to go down. and santorum whom i like i think was overly aggressive and hurt himself. >>> i like you're getting into the psychology of how men think. this is so enlightening to me as a woman and maybe to michele bachmann. let me bring you in on this. with that said, there are analyst who's say rick perry hit a high note here. he was able to knock mitt romney off his game. he had been the so-called, what the pundits li

new comments from rick perry a few hours ago on the president's birth certificate. we will play that for you on "news nation." [ male announcer ] humana and walmart have teamed up to bring you a low-priced medicare prescription drug plan. ♪ with the lowest national plan premium... ♪ ...and copays as low as one dollar... ♪ ...saving on medicare prescriptions is easy. ♪ so you're free to focus on the things that really matter. call humana at 1-800-808-4003. or go to walmart.com for details.

rick perry is polling nationally at 6%. 6. that is a problem for rick perry. he is tanking. but tanking rick perry has a solution to this. rick perry appears this week to be launching his comeback plan. step one, he got himself some new establishment republican staff. a lot of bob dole for president staff, if you must know. seriously old school. step two, rick perry got himself a new herman cainesque flat tax. step three, he got himself a donald trumpesque birther platform, playing to the tin foil hat fringe implying that the president is secretly foreign and therefore not really president. as of today some new steps. tanking rick perry also floating the idea that he will fix his being bad at debates problem by going on offense. not by going on offense during the debates but by going on offense against the whole idea of debating. >> actually, these debates are set up for nothing more than to tear down the candidates. it's pretty hard to be able to sit and lay out your ideas and your concepts with a one-minute response. so you know, if there was a -- if there was a mistake ma

perry seems to be the most clear. let's pair it down to perry and cain. what is it that you need to see from cain to rise to such a well-described rick perry in your eyes? >> well, in my estimation, somebody gave cain the wrong advice on tax policy. the tax policy doesn't have the growth potential for the economy, the job creation potential that he suggests it will have. further complicates the tax code in such a way to give future generations of politicians, if it were enacted, two tracks on which they could raise taxes and sales taxes are the most dysfunctional taxes at the federal level that you can think of. you would see the growth in the underground economy and a frustration that could, as it did in europe, lead to a value added tax. so, i think he's fooling with a fairly dangerous idea when he introduces sales tax. even at the 9% level. >> all right, final question. who is better to -- i guess, who is better suited right now to beat president barack obama? rick perry, herman cain? >> well, i really think it's rick perry because he's drawing such a

perry over illegal immigration. our panel has plenty to talk b before bring them back in i want to bring in key moments about the debate, began with an all-out assault on herman cain's 9-99-9 plan. we will talk to him in a moment let's take a look. >> herman, i love you, brother, but you don't need to have a big analysis to figure this thing out. go to new hampshire where they don't have a sales tax and you're fixing to give them one. they're not interested in 9-9-9. >> herman, are you saying the state sales tax will go away? >> you're mixing apples and oranges? you will pay the state sales tax, no matter what whether you throw out the existing code and you put in our plan, you are still going to pay that. that's apples and oranges. >> and i'm going to be getting a bushel basket that has apples and oranges in it because i've got to pay both taxes and the people in nevada don't want to pay both taxes. >> governor romney, you don't have credibility when it comes to obama care. >> each chance i've had to talk about oba

rick perry is fading fast. i could get in here and maybe sweep this thing, take it, just run right through. on the other hand, look what happened to rick perry as unprepared as he was. christie looks at a situation, i have not had any chance, i don't know that much about foreign policy or domestic policy. what if i get up in the glare and what happens to me happened to rick perry? it's a delicate balance to figure out what side to come down on. >> christie knows he's never once been in a public debate about social security, medicare, national defense. all these big and complex issues. he probably also knows he needs one good index card worth of material to win a republican debate on any one of these subjects, right? to sound smart enough. does he know what obviously perry didn't know? perry obviously wasn't crossing his mind what the name of his hunting camp was. in other words, all those vulnerabilities that you pick up over the course of your lifetime. something you said in college to someone you shouldn't ha

let's move on to governor perry. governor perry on the radio show this morning says i'm going to look into the camera and talk to the american people about jobs tonight. but if you want the specifics, you have to wait another eight, ten days, maybe two weeks. can he wait that long? a guy that got in late, had a couple miserable debate performances. when you talk to grassroot supporters are they nervous? >> they are nervous. it would be bet for we did wait eight days so we'd have a perfect plan. i don't they if there's such a thing as a perfect plan. i'd be willing to wait for extra days to make sure it's strategically correct and ready to move forward. however we ready now, as of yesterday. las vegas and nevada is hurting. we're at the bottom of almost every list and it's going to be jobs, jobs, jobs and the economy for us. he needs to make sure that comes out. >> given that, how critical this state could be, know it's a small state in a close presidential election, nevada, new mexico, these could be the swing states

and low pressurick perry is a m a gun. he won't jogging with a pistol, from west texas. >> all the producers and i were trying to figure out, why do you want to be known as the guy who's just towel snapping at the president of the united states? just taunting with him, just playing with him, as he put it. here's a party that i just keep on the list. they want more people to fry, they love executions. they want people who don't have insurance to die on the gurney in the hospital bed. they want that to happen. they want -- forget about illegal aliens. gay soldiers, forget about them. they're not -- they're there to be booed. if you're homeless, foreclose -- if you have a home, forcloeclosn the people. if you're a teacher, fireman or a cop, get rid of the guy! this attitude of causing cruel pain on people and getting cheers for it, what's that about, howard? you're giving me that look. i want to know where these candidates are heading with this. >> well, i'm not sure of the answer, except so say that that attitude of mean res

got him off that game, and i think that's a plus for rick perry, even though rick perry didn't look that good doing it. >> he was biting on his ankle. notice how newt is envies of the fight, saying gee whiz, i wish i was in this fight. >> and newt suggested that the way he would win the presidency is by having seven three-hour debates with barack obama. >> good. >> 21 hours of debates. i agree with josh. what happened here is that rick perry dragged mitt romney down to his rick perry's level which is a tough street fight in a dusty street in texas. >> let's take a look at this. a very telling moment for mitt romney. the former massachusetts governor again in a heated back and forth with perry over the use of illegal immigrants to take care of his property. he defended himself, but listen to the words he uses at the end. they are incredibly incriminating. let's listen. >> we hired a lawn company to mow our lawn, and they had illegal immigrants that were working there, and when that was pointed out to us, we let them go and we went to them. >> are you a -- >> you have a problem allowi

>> i don't know how much it says about rick perry. i can't read rick perry. i don't have any particular insights about how he feels about black people or african-americans. i was thinking about the clip you played from governor christie where he said this was a word from a long ago past. if you actually read the story and look at the people in the story who know what the camp was called, what they say is, i don't understand, what's the big deal? all these quotes all through the story. it's just what it's called. i don't understand why it would offend anybody. it's quite clear, it's not, we'd like to be from a long ago past, if you read the story it's actually not. >> it's interesting he put that in. it's important that we have put that all behind us. there's this tremendous disquiet when something like this emerges precisely because it seems to invalidate that whole story. >> right, right. well, i think when your constituency is made up and is predominantly white as a conservative movement is right now, you have to answer some pretty ugly questions you wouldn

perry, that came up. question, and he said? perry, he doesn't think it's real. and you said? perry, i don't have any idea. it doesn't matter. he's the president of the united states and he's elected. it's a distractive issue. well, there we go. rick perry has ripped the scab off this issue by saying he doesn't really believe the president was born here. i want to go to wayne slater. what crowd is this guy back in the double digits trying to appeal to? >> you suggested it in the intro. what part of the resurrection of the birther issue is going to cause him problems in western iowa, in western carolina, in the redneck riviera, in florida, it's not going to cause him any problems at all. >> why not? >> well, basically, what he's got to do, as you know, appeal to those people who are not going to be with romney. pull people away from cain, so do it with abortion. pull people away from everybody else. so what you do is resurrect the crowd on the right. and that includes both the anti-abortion people, the anti-gay marriage people, but also the birthers. the secessionists, the mili

we start with rick perry on defense. his campaign faltering, perry took to the airwaves this morning in a rare media blitz for a candidate who has mostly been off limits to the press. perry wanted to talk about the energy jobs plan he will lay out just over an hour from now in pittsburgh. but it was hard for him to stay on that message. first he was tested on his slide in the polls. >> i don't worry too much about polls. i know a lot of people obsess with them and watch them and talk about them. i'm more worried about those people out there who don't have a job in america. within a hundred days, when i'm the president of the united states, without having to deal with congress opening up those federal lands and waters, pulling back those regulations that are killing jobs and rebuilding the epa, we can do that and get 1.2 million people working. >> perry was also asked to respond to these emotional comments by his wife anita, who tee teared up in south carolina while on the stump yesterday. >> it's been a rough month. we'v

in that way, rick perry did succeed. now, the back and forth again, i don't know that f that was beneficial to either in them. but in drawing mitt romney out, that clearly worked. >> let me make a point to both of you. this is what mitt romney had to say, and he was basically saying, you know, i was running for office, therefore i made sure that we got rid of these illegals. take a look. >> i don't think we have that tape ready. but can i say, he said, we hired a lawn company to know our lawn. they had illegal immigrants working there. when that was pointed out to us we let them go. we went to them and said, perry said, a year later. and he said you have a problem with allowing someone to finish speaking. but he made the point, romney did, that it was because he was running for office that checked it out. bottom line is it was wrong. why was it happening? >> right. get to perry wants to do. a lot of elections are down to a values choice. you are trying to get at gut level of the voter. what perry has been trying to do an