trump in the trump organization for their own financial benefit is astounding. >> the massive trump fraud suit. >> falsifying business records issuing false financial statements. insurance fraud. >> tonight, the evidence gathered against the disgraced ex president and his company. the legal jeopardy for trump and his oldest kids. and what prompted the investigation in the first place. >> the president or his company ever inflate assets or revenue? >> yes. >> trump's former lawyer and fixer joins me live onset. >> there cannot be different rules for different people in this country or this state. former presidents are no different. >> senator elizabeth warren on the depth of the fraud and former u.s. attorney harry lippman on the possible charges facing the trump family and their business. plus, breaking news about trump stash of classified documents, when all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. today new york attorney general letitia james filed a lawsuit, alleging what was already obvious to anyone who has ever paid attention. donald trump is a crook. in

i like president trump. i understand the problems with president trump, trust me! i've had my time with him too. i think if he runs in 2024... and you think you will. i think he will. and if he'll talk about, it doesn't have to be this way, folks. the border, too many illegal crossings. crime rampant, inflation out of control, terrorism on the rise, i think he would have a hell of a case. and you see this in polling. you may not like all the things i do and say, and i get that too, but i know how to fix the problems that have been caused by this presidency ofjoe biden. if he does that, i think he has a good chance of winning. senator lindsey graham, we have to end there, but thank you so much for being on hardtalk. thank you. hello there. so far, the weather for the month of september has been one of contrast. eastern england has stayed dry and quite warm. out to the west, it's been pretty wet at times, and partly responsible is this area of low pressure sitting out in the atlantic. you can see the cloud spiralling in an anticlockwise direction. that's the weather

with donald trump, they took on another calling. reshaping the federal judiciary for generations and working inside the white house to influence national policy. as hemorrhage writes in his book -- the position of a new snake in washington, after decades of swelling ambition. what transpired at the donald trump era was an extraordinary transfer of talent. it brought the law form to a new administration. joining us now is david hemorrhage. he's an investigative journalist that the new york times and the author of the four mentioned book. it's a 30 reported we'd. david, congrats on the publication. >> thank you. good to be here. >> how did this happen? we know jones day leans conservative, but it's been supercharged and the run up to the election in 2016, and of course, once trump was president. for people who haven't read the puck, can you explain that metamorphosis and offer more details on the appalachian of this law form? >> the started years before trump came up in the political scene. john's day under its management partner, a c

, and donald trump deserves every privilege because he is donald trump. to incorporate what we learned tonight, i don't follow, even from judge cannons ruling, what is supposed to happen with this special master as they go through all of these records that donald trump apparently will claim recovered by executive privilege. but will also highly classified. i don't follow from her analysis what she thinks the special master is going to do. say the record is all are all covered by executive privilege. under the supreme court president from the nixon era of the first one, the u.s. be nixon, it doesn't matter. even if for an incumbent president invoking that privilege, it has to give way for the criminal, or the interest in the criminal investigation to pursue potential criminal inquiry. what possible would exist here that would override it in the context of a former president? i have no idea what the special master is supposed to do. >> barbara mcquade, what is annexed epps here? >> while the justice department and the lawyers for donald trump had been direc

donald trump. stuff that should not have happened happened. and the greg craig case that we now know about from geoffrey berman because of his book, that's just the start. and of course, this book arrives at sort of an important moment. if you step back for a second, think about what's going on, the justice department right now under president biden is under this hot, hot spotlight because of what we now know are multiple active federal investigations that involve former president trump. just tonight, "the new york times" is reporting and nbc has confirmed that at least 40 trump advisers and campaign staff were served with subpoenas last week from a federal grand jury. at least two of them had their cell phones seized by the fbi. but 40 of them got subpoenas. and you know, we have to guess, like musical chairs style, which of the many, many, many active federal criminal investigations surrounding trump might have gizzen rise to these 40 new subpoenas. take a number, right? but in the midst of this

this still looks bad for trump, doesn't it? >> it does, jonathan i suppose the most generous explanation is that the documents were simply removed from the folders and we're screwed about among all the personal belongings in the documents. the worst-case scenario is that they are gone they have been destroyed or lost or in some other way disposed of. and that is really dangerous just red alert for the intelligence community to not know whether secrets have been lost. and to not have the documents, and not know what the contents were. they will have to go back and try to figure out and recreate what was the document that was in there? and is it now out there and has that information been compromised? so this is just red alert stuff for the intelligence community. >> red alert indeed. peter, just wondering. trump's lawyers push for this inventory to be relieved but does this help them? >> it does not. it doesn't look good, obviously, it raises questions that they don't actually call into question the fbi's conduct, as much as it

you have trump doing what trump does, going to different states, pennsylvania. i am sure he will be in georgia. ohio, for instance, where he's got a big following. attacking his message about 2020 being a fraudulent election. they are taxing his message about him being a target of a witchhunt from the fbi, the doj, and from everyone and their mother. that very much resonates with his voters. the problem that republicans are seeing, and you can see a firing squad already circulating among these republicans who i talked to is that some of these trumpist candidates might be great for primary vots, but not so great for independent voters. not so great for suburban white women voters who are reacting to a lot of the news we are seeing, particularly around the dobbs decision. you see something really happening in the data. inflation is certainly a huge issue. i think it is the number one issue among voters. the second most important issue is health care. yamiche: you bring up abortion -- i want to talk about the importance it has. dasha, you have been talking to candi

that donald documents went on trump's basement? where they're sort of special hacking that had been used to get information or listening devices? they want to see if there was damage as a result of the way he handled these documents. and this is all very important. was he showing them to random people? was there actual damage? a human source may have been killed. again, none of this is confirmed. but all of that strengthens a prosecution. you want to tell a jury a story. you want to say, it was not just that these documents were sitting in a basement. it was that they caused real harm. >> right. >> and so these are critical things. i want to praise these two trump judges, a term that some legal experts have used is that the judiciary, the judges, are the last wall. many trump judges stood up and rejected his false claims in 2020, a voter fraud. and judge cannon did the wrong thing and i think issued a series of partisan, pro trump rulings -- >> i think we were worried that this was something that we discussed last week, the trump -

trump is the reverse of that. every day you learn something new and worse and draws prosecutors in more. investigations, this one is spiralling for trump downwards. it's not just that he stole the documents. it's not just that he lied about them. it's every new fact that makes the situation worse. so first we thought it was just some documents at mar-a-lago and then we learned it was highly classified documents and then we learned it was human sources and signals intelligence and some of the crown jewels and then we learned he didn't return the documents when the archives asked for them and then we learned the justice department had to get a grand jury subpoena for these documents. then we learned that his lawyer certified that they had responded to the grand jury and turned over the documents when they hadn't, and now we're learning that 43 folders were found with classified -- were bearing classified findings and a whole lot more with military information, and i've just been racking my brain. i can't think of wh

>> let's separate donald trump personally versus those closest to donald trump. if you were saying those close to donald trump, i would say the fake elector scheme that the feds have been investigating. >> part of the january 6th investigation? >> correct. for many people close to donald trump that could be the most perilous. for donald trump personally you have the document case now. something happened this week that i think changed the tenor of this. when you have the 11th circuit court of appeals with two trump appointees coming forward and not just rejecting donald trump's argument, but completely rebuking it, almost mocking the argument and mocking the lower court, it's not just not helpful. i think it sets a tone that's potentially dangerous for him in terms of what the department of justice may do next. >> sara isgur, you have the special master chosen by donald trump's lawyers push back on them as well. >> absolutely. fascinating that donald trump's team picked a judge who had served on the foreign intelligence surveillance court, had dealt so much with c

of trump with the best of trump, because there is no worst of trump and it definitely he changed by winning the presidency in 2016. what republic voters many of them the base especially expects from their leaders. you know, before trump, you could you know trump's like this character out of the movie where the guy goes on tv and says everything that everybody always wanted to hear, but say because it wouldn't work. and before trump, somebody would run. it's like trump and everybody go. that's amazing. i wish somebody would say that. nobody can say that. they'll lose. well, trump says it all and acts the he acts and he wins. and so you try telling committed republican voter who voted for trump twice and wants him to run or you know undecided but they like him wish he would have won in 2020. try telling him this doesn't work. you can say he lost in 2020. republicans lost the house they lost the senate, but he won the presidency. and he came actually close, even though he lost handily, really came close to winning it again. when you look at the numbers in the six swing states that mattered in

that the fbi seized from mar-a-lago, the trump nominated special master's message to trump's lawyers was clear. and i quote, you can't have your cake and eat it too. that came following sharp questions from judge dearie over what role they expected him to play in verifying the classification of the documents given this is controlled by the executive branch, not the judicial branch. perhaps it's why dearie directly asked trump's team to declare what if any of the classified documents trump declassified before leaving the white house. trump has repeatedly said he declassified all of them, but that has not shown up in any of the filings from his legal team. today his lawyers reiterated what they wrote in their filing last night, that trump should not be forced to fully and specifically disclose a defense to the merits of any subsequent indictment without such a requirement being evident in the district court's order. as "the washington post" reports, that is a remarkable statement that acknowledges at least the possibility that the former president his aides could be criminally charged.

trump. in fact, more devoted to him than the republican party. indeed, this is not the stadium-sized draw that mr. trump had when he was running for president or was president, but it is still a few thousand people, one of the larger types of crowds we will see in this midterm election cycle. we ask people here why they support preside trump and what they make of the investigations underway and how president biden sees the. >> he is calling us all extreme radicals. we are not extreme. we just love our family. we love our country. we want what is best for it, and it's not fair to -- i don't do that to democrats. i don't group them all in one category. i have family and friends that are democrats. they are just good people. we just think differently, but i don't call them names. >> in wilmington, north carolina, the high gas prices, the food prices, i just wonder sometimes how the poor people feed their children, clothes their children, send them to school. i'm not happy with it at all. and i

i like president trump. i understand the problems with president trump, trust me! i've had my time with him too. i think if he runs in 2024... my time with him too. i think if he runs in 2024. . .— runs in 2024... and you think you will. i runs in 2024... and you think you will- i think _ runs in 2024... and you think you win. i think he — runs in 2024... and you think you will. i think he will. i runs in 2024... and you think you will. i think he will. and i runs in 2024... and you think you will. i think he will. and if i runs in 2024... and you think you will. i think he will. and if you i will. i think he will. and if you talk about. — will. i think he will. and if you talk about, it i will. i think he will. and if you talk about, it doesn't i will. i think he will. and if you talk about, it doesn't have i will. i think he will. and if you talk about, it doesn't have to | will. i think he will. and if you i talk about, it doesn't have to be this way, folks. the border, too many illegal crossings will stop crime, rampant inflation out of control, terrorism

we have learned why the fbi went to trump club what trump had there, where he had it and what lies the justice department was apparently told. on tuesday, the doj submitted a 36-page filing, explaining that investigators quote, developed evidence, that government records were likely concealed and removed from the storage room and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the governments investigation. this photo of some of the investigation documents is an illustration of some of the volume of top secret documents at trumps florida home. despite his lawyers telling the doj both in person and on paper on june 3rd that they had turned over all of the classified documents. on wednesday, trump's lawyers disputed the government's description of that june 3rd at a station and meeting. and trump's lawyers did nothing wrong. and on thursday, the judge overseeing this case said she would make public the justice department's detailed list of what the fbi took during its search last month. today that is exactly what we got. thanks to that inventory, we now know that in addition to the 100 plus c

he gets trump's number. he understands the narcissism and flattery that's required to deal with him, and he's sort of mocking him to his face in a private meeting. it makes you wonder, of course, you know, you want to know more about that relationship, and probably more will be learned in years to come. i thought it was a telling moment. >> unrequited love of vladimir putin, the new book is entitled "the divider trump in the white house 2017 to 2021" peter baker and susan glasser, as i said, i could keep you here all day. there's so much in here. we want people to buy the book and read it for themselves. congratulations, great to see you both. >> thanks, guys, appreciate it. >>> still ahead on "morning joe," the new concern about a potential radiation disaster after a shelling near the country's second largest nuclear plant. >>> we'll go live to puerto rico where millions are without power again this morning on the heels of hurricane fiona. we'll have the latest there. >>> up next, we'll speak live with wes

everything like donald trump stands on was built by donald trump. again, now, he has another -- i think this is an existential threat to his business and his financial well-being. >> you cited these two other incidents when you put the family legacy on the precipice. why is this different? is it different? >> in the past, what had happened before, remember that he ended up losing a huge chunk of -- the only reason he didn't go bankrupt was because his siblings bailed him out using his father's money. this time, backside to continue to deal with him in the early 90s because he was essentially too big to fail. if they had kicked him out of everything, they might not have gotten -- they might have worked with trump back then. a lot is involved in an intense and sophisticated way. he is facing legal battles on multiple fronts inside new york and outside new york. he has never faced this kind of a lineup of legal hurdles ever in his career. >> it does seem insurmountable. you also write that the trump chose to invoke the fifth amendment protection agains

there were pictures of lev and igor with the trump family. do you think he was protecting trump? >> i don't know. i think that bill barr's modus operandi was to please the president. >> did he try to protect anyone other than trump. the cohen is clearly about stopping it before it reaches trump. >> i didn't see an indication of bill barr trying to please anyone but president trump. i think bill barr tried to be the most valuable player in the trump cabinet and i think he succeeded. >> until he became -- until he flips on the president around the time of the coup. >> well it was really after the election. >> correct. >> the president lost the election. >> and i think there is a temptation and we try not to fall for it here, to take that at face value. but it the not. your point is bill barr could tell the truth about the mar-a-lago search because there is nothing more to gain from donald trump? >> i'm not really going to go into what bill barr's motives are right now. you know, i don't really want engage in that. >> it is clear that you view it as crypt and wrong. and i'm going to

trump. new york attorney general letitia james suing donald trump, his children and entire company. this is a culmination of this investigation she has so doggedly pursued. we're going to get into it with our experts. let me tell you, james is saying trump has committed "staggering fraud," that he lied about the value of his properties, that he lied to the authorities, that he lied in financial statements, that he did it for over a decade, and that he furnished, and this matters for the law, false information to banks, insurance companies, as well as state authorities and then he would try to get favorable loans and cheat on his taxes. >> pattern of fraud and deception that was used by mr. trump and the trump organization for their own financial benefit is astounding. claiming you have money that you do not have does not amount to "the art of the deal." it's the art of the steal. and there can not be different rules for different people in this country or in this state. and former presidents

keeps mitch mcconnell out of the crosshairs of trump and trump's people. but more perniciously, that gives a lead time for the most fantastic and outrageous conspiratorial ideas to really just start circulating. >> "most fraudulent election in history!" >> all we get back is, "shut up. you're a conspiracy theorist, you're attacking the integrity of our democracy." >> you think we're idiots? we're not backing off this one inch. he won! >> it will be impossible to ever know the true, fair, accurate election results. that's a fact. >> "fake voters and fraud that miraculously floated in from everywhere!" >> narrator: right-wing media was amplifying the lies. >> they're going to try to steal north carolina next. we believe these people are thieves. >> you have 138,000 votes that magically appear that are all 100% biden votes. >> i have a lot of family who are die-hard trump supporters. it was frustrating to me to talk to my family, who would be, like, "well, listen, no, i think it was stolen. he's going to have another four years." and i'd be, like, "guys, that

and that's a crime. >> led by donald trump? >> led by donald trump, encouraged by donald trump. was i happy when i beat donald trump by nearly 3 million votes but lost the electoral college? no, i was not happy. did i even for a nanosecond think i'm going to claim victory and try to get the democrats to certify the election? no! >> former secretary of state hillary clinton speaking out against donald trump and his role on the january 6 attack. she also explained the difference between the investigation into her private email server in 2016 and the ongoing investigation over trump's mishandling of classified documents. >> i think it's a really different comparison to what's going on here when it appears that the justice department and the fbi have been incredibly patient, quiet, careful until they finally, apparently, thought that national security was at stake. >> would you ever run for president again? >> no, no. but i'm going to do everything i can to make sure that we have a president who respects our democracy and the rule of law. and upholds our institution. >> what if dona

ivanka trump, and eric trump, and the former trump cfo. mr. trump and the trump organization repeatedly and insistently inflated the value of assets to induce banks to lend money to the trump organization on more favorable terms than would have otherwise been available to the company, to pay lower taxes, to satisfy continuing loan agreements and insist insurance companies provide insurance for lower premiums. his conduct was in violation of executive law section 63.12, which gives the attorney general broad and special powers to go after resistant and repeated fraud and illegality. as part of demonstrating illegality under that section of law, we show that they violated several state criminal laws, including falsifying business records, issuing falls financial statements, insurance fraud, and engaging in a conspiracy to commit each of these state law violations. we believe the conduct alleged violated several criminal laws, including issuing false statements to financial institutions and bank fraud. and we are referring those criminal viol

trump. >> i would what trump's game is this time. >> trump got a new game. >> trump's got a new deal. >> heard about trump's new deal? >> trump got a new game, what is it. >> mr. trump! >> mr. trump, please! >> my new game is trump, the game. >> trump, the game, were you deal for everything you've always wanted at home. because it's not whether you win or lose, it's whether you win. >> yes! >> play trump the game, from milton bradley. >> i think you'll like it. >> mr. trump's proceeds from trump, the game will be donated to charity. >> trump, the game, it's not whether you win or lose, it's whether you win. that was a tagline for donald trump's board game in the late 19 80s. at the time, trump was just beginning his journey from new york celebrity to nationally recognized figure. played out basically the same way everything else plays out when it comes to donald trump. you caught what they're saying at the end there? mr. trump's proceeds from trump the game will be donated to charity. trump claimed to have donated 1 million dollars in proceeds from that game to charity. years later, h

donald trump, junior, ivanka trump, and eric trump but, and former trump organization ceo alan weissenberg and organization controller jeffrey--. mr. trump and the trump organization repeatedly and persistently manipulated the value of assets, to induce banks to lend money to the trump organization on more favorable terms than what would have otherwise been available to the company. to pay lower taxes. to satisfy continuing loan agreements, and to reduce insurance companies to provide insurance covers for hire limits and lower premiums. his conduct was all in violation of federal law, section 63, paragraph 12. which gives the attorney general brought special powers to go after persistent and repeated fraud illegality. as part of demonstrating illegality on that section of lost 60 3:12, we show that they violated several state criminal laws. including falsifying business records, issuing false financial statements, insurance fraud, and engaging in a conspiracy to commit each of these state law violations. we believe the conduct alleged in this action also violates federal criminal law, incl

trump was well aware of. based on that inflated square footage, the value of the apartment in 2015 and 2016 was 300 and $27 million. to this date, no apartment in new york city has ever sold for close to that amount. tripling the size of the apartment for purposes of the valuation was intentional and deliberate fraud. not an honest mistake. >> the attorney general noted the vindication began after former trump lawyer michael cohen testified before congress back in 2019. did >> the president ever provide inflated assets to an insurance company? >> yes. >> was the president interested real reducing his local real estate tax bills? >> yes. >> and how did you do that? >> what you do is, you deflate the value of the asset and then you put in a request to the tax department for a deduction. >> new york state lawsuit seeks to recover 250 million bucks from the trump organization, and james says she hopes to essentially ban trump and his kids from running any businesses in new york. trump's lawyer says the attorney g

as executive vice presidents of the trump organization, donald trump jr., ivanka trump, and eric trump were also aware of and knowingly participated in the scheme, indeed the fraudulent scheme was integral to the business of the trump organization and required the participation of trump and his children as well. joining me now is msnbc news correspondent tom winter. and an msnbc contributor. let me start you with and kind of give us the broad strike if you will, for the children's involvement in this suit. >> well, i mean they are tied definitely to this because they have had an active role in the business, and just to pick up on an interesting conversation you were just having, as far as the long term impacts on the trump organization, the banks that currently hold the loans now, they might decide, you know what, we're going to keep going with this, we have a lawsuit and we like the terms of it and keep going from there, and they may have covenants in those agreements that they may have to come back to the trumps and do something different with the loans, but going forward, i think, a

trump, donald trump, jr. ivanka trump, eric trump, serving as an officer in any corporation or similar entity registered or licensed in new york. to bar mr. trump and the trump organization from entering into any new york state commercial real estate acquisition or from applying for loans from any financial institution in new york for five years. to pay for the financial benefits obtained as a result of the persistent fraudulent practices at an estimated $250 mil million. towards the end of my remarks, i will go into the other relief we are seeking. at the center of this -- of the years-long financial scheme were the statements of financial condition that were prepared annually by and for mr. trump specifically from 2011 through 2021, the statements were compiled by the trump organization executives and issued as a compilation report by mr. trump's accounting firm. the statements are explicit that the preparation was the responsibility of mr. trump. starting in 2016, the trustees of his trust, donald trump ju

. >> president trump: that was a very good job. looks like you've done it before. >> sean: i have every once in a while. >> president trump: think you very much. >> sean: you saw letiti letitia james. okay what was your reaction? >> president trump: she campaigned on it four years ago it was a vicious campaign and she just talked about trump and how work and indict him and get him she knew nothing about me i know nothing about her eye say the statements that she was putting out without knowing anything. she said that we are gonna get him her whole campaign was based off that. then she came after us we have been going over this for years. i actually thought because our values are really high, the company is great i built a great company you take places like this in so many other places i have. like this frankly, just among the finest places anywhere in the world. i actually thought that they would never bring the case and she brought it. the reason i thought was because she didn't have a case. i was of the impression that she wanted

trump had to pay up. trump university is no more. the new york a.g. said that it was a trump slush fund. he used it for handing out money to veterans charities even though he wasn't giving p much money to veterans charities. use the charity too settle hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of legal problems. even used it for the cause of buying a $10,000 giant portrait of himself to hang in one of his golf clubs. do h you remember this? the new york attorney general got thatw fake charity shut do, accusing it of engaging in a shocking pattern of illegality. he had to pay $2 million to actualli charities. so if you're sensing a theme here, you're not off base. it's all scams. frauds, university, charity, and it could make sense that his entire business might be run on scams as well.el that is what is being investigated by the new york attorney general. today a.g. james accused donald trump and his children of engaged in numerous acts of fraud and misrepresentation and misrepresenting assets. inflated assets they used to get more favorable loans and cov

the trump lawyers refused to say again that the documents were not classified, and donald trump's lawyers in writing went so far as to invite a criminal prosecution of donald trump to determine whether the documents or classified, and whether or not they belong to donald trump. the trump lawyers actually said in writing, whether some of the listed property does not, in fact belong to president trump is a matter better dealt with an summary judgment or at trial. or at trial! there are donald trump's lawyers in writing today to a federal appeals court saying, the way to determine who should have these documents is to charge donald trump with federal crimes and put him on trial. after a day of trump lawyering like today, you don't have to be a tv fiction drama writer like i used to be to be left wondering, if donald trump's lawyers secretly were working against him wanting him to be convicted of crimes, would they have done or said anything different today? think about it. who was donald trump's lawyers who suggested raymond dearie as the special master, the special master who said today tha

as executive vice presidents of the trump organization, donald trump jr., ivanka trump and eric trump were also aware of and knowingly participated in the scheme. as executive vice presidents, the three children were intimately involved in the operation of the trump organization's business. they were aware of the true financial performance of the company, whether through donald trump jr.'s work on commercial leasing, ivanka trump's work on doral, trump chicago and opo, or eric trump's work on the golf course portfolio, which, of course, brought us the great revelation that they had all the money they needed from russia. is this the civil version of the kind of evidence that would be marshaled in a rico investigation and prosecution? >> yeah, look, it's pretty close. and a rico would show that they themselves were a criminal organization. but what is this? it's the equivalent, but as to the trump brand, which has always been so important to him and, of course, to his children. basically, it's -- it's the entire business. people have noted this. but just to put a finer point on it, all

be charging trump directly but the trump organization, that's him. that's president trump. the family run organization that was all president trump. that's just one example the documents the january 6th, congress, so many things. from laetitia james, the new york state attorney general about her investigation and some of the business practices. we'll look forward to hearing that. so many issues on the plate right now that he has a battery of lawyers, ever-changing, cast of characters, some of them leave out of their own exposure or have been paid or what have you, and it is all consuming. it's the war that he is rage waging right now. >> it's like peter's reading my mind, joyce. new york attorney general, tish james, she is holding tomorrow morning what is described as a major news conference. last week the new york times reported that james could potentially sue trump and, obviously we don't know what is coming tomorrow but given what peter just laid out, given what i shared, how worried should trump be tonight about tish james tomorrow? >> well, ja

trump. the former presidents legal troubles are kicking into overdrive. on wednesday, new york attorney general letitia james announced a state is suing suing trump, his children, and their organization for 200 alleged incidents of fraud spanning over a decade. in addition to seeking 250 million in fines, she said that she is sending a criminal referral to the irs and federal prosecutors in manhattan. just hours later, a federal appeals court gave trump a huge setback in his fight over classified government documents seized from mar-a-lago. that panel freed federal investigators to use those classified papers as a part of their pro. judge aileen can in, a trump appointee, they had blocked investigators from reviewing those documents until an outside judge could review them. on wednesday, the 11th circuit court of appeals said that can in abused her authority by demanding the documents be reviewed. two of the three of the appeals court judges are trump appointees. we are not done yet. also on

to be clear, judge dearie, the special master, who trump's side advocated for, basically told r, trump's attorneys the government has said these documents are classified.to unless you somehow prove otherwise, quote, that is it. or another was, limits terms, put up or shut up. even through this zinger at team trump later during the roughly 45-minute quantum fence.s quote, i guess my view out of it is, you can't have your cake and eat it. trump's attorney, james trusty, responded, sure. i just. it obviously, the court is gonna want evidence, not just pure argument. s o you can say that again. trump's attorney then pressed the judge on obtaining a proper security clearance, so team trump can view these purportedly, or pretty decidedly, classified documents. let us say that did not go so well. who's trump attorney jim trusty again. quote, we would appreciate some help from the court kind of pushing that along where we might be able to get people cleared and away where it doesn't slow anything down, andw doesn't unnecessarily hand string us if we review these documents. special master diary r

so ken, this is the judge that the trump team wanted but it seems like judge dearie is telling trump to put up or shut up any guess more civil words. >> absolutely right. you have to wonder whether the trump team is second guessing their decision. he didn't have to do this way, he was under instructions from judge cannon to come up with a detailed inventory that all the parties can agree on what exactly was seized at mar-a-lago and in so doing, he has essentially as you said there told the trump team to put up or shut up or speak now or forever hold your piece. and of course trump lawyers and trump himself have made these allegations and insinuations in various forums in media, but never in court and never in any legal pleading where there are professional consequences for lying or making baseless claims without evidence. so now they have a chance if they believe that evidence was planted or have anyway to prove that, they can tell the special master about that and if they don't, then it will be really hard for them ever to make that claim again in court. will that stop donald trump

trump's inner circle. the fight broke into public view yesterday and cnn teams -- three lawyers for the former president at the federal courthouse here in washington. the back-and-forth battle follows a deluge of new subpoenas from federal prosecutors demanding evidence from a slew of former trump aides and associates. let's bring in cnn's senior justice correspondent evan perez and cnn's crime and justice reporter. i want to start with you here. how does this work? explain the details here and why they matter. >> right now we're in secrecy or this proceeding is veiled in secrecy because that is what is ongoing, a grand jury proceeding where the justice department is trying to get information into the grand jury including around donald trump around the white house potentially even from attorneys of his and at this turning point right now the trump lawyers, these three men we did see exiting the federal court yesterday, they're representing donald trump. they're opposite the justice department. in court bef

trump himself. she alleges that eric trump, ivanka trump appear donald trump jr. knowingly participated in the fraudulent schemes. she says trump and his company lied more than 200 times about the value of his assets, and she is seeking a quarter of a billion dollars, that's billion with a b, in allegedly ill-gotten funds as well as seeking to bar the trumps from ever running a business in the state again. the former president denies any wrongdoing and accuses the attorney general, a democrat, of a political vendetta. there is a lot to the to in the coming hours here on c ncnn, so want to get right to jessica schneider and laura coates. good evening to both of you. jessica, further reporting, the appeals court allowing the justice department to resume their review of the classified documents, what can you tell us? >> don, this was a unanimous three-judge panel notably with two trump appointees. they gave doj what the prosecutors there have been asking for repeatedly over the past week plus. now doj will be allowed to resume using those 100 classified documents tha

sees that donald trump so. the justice department is also asking the court to not allow classified documents to be shared with the special master in the case with donald trump's lawyers. joining our breaking news discussion, right now. our andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and former chief of the criminal operation in the district in york and professor practice it and why law school. he's an msnbc analyst. also mohsen, exxon security attorney. >> we knew would we be discussing the appeal. but, now, we have this breaking news from the new york times about herschmann, who now is clearly an important witness in this case. saying he told donald trump, last year, about the legal imperative to return these documents and the legal jeopardy donald trump would face if he did not return these documents. andrew weizmann, your reaction first to this news of eric herschmann and his standing now as a witness in this case. >> lawrence, that is definitely the right thing to start with. of the two stories that we're

the trump organization is still located at trump tower. this really precludes him from anything or is hoping to preclude him from anything else he might try to do and keeps him still and in place and keeps him from doing additional deals. john, realistically, i don't know how many additional deals were available to donald trump in new york where he's a fairly unpopular figure in many places and he always struggled in terms of banks lending to him. but i think this makes it harder for him to move outside of new york. >> you know him better than most. you just wrote a great book about him. how does donald trump take this news? there are many different investigations of donald trump, he calls them witch hunts. this goes through nearly 300 pages through his trump organization and says he's a liar, he's a cheat and worse. how does he take this? >> not happily, john. donald trump has spent decades trying to build up this image as a successful businessman and has tried to prevent any effort to suggest otherwise. tim o'brien of bloomberg, you know

president trump has endorsed ted budd. i should say former president trump. talking to those involved in this race, this is the place where joe biden running in 2020 underperformed. this was a place hard-hit by covid. this is also a place where there are a lot of rural voters nearby and republicans say they have to get out to win in november and they are hard to reach door to door. something like a rally from a former president is a way to reach thousands at a time. amna: i heard you ask about the investigations and headlines we see at the national level. what did other people say it when you asked if they cared about the headlines of the new york attorney general suing mr. trump for fraud into his handling of classified materials? does any of that matter to them? >> there are two schools of thought. for some, they are enraged. they are motivated to get out because they believe those investigations are political as the former president has alleged. others have said i want to move on. they will say i'm not a perfect person and he's not a perfect person. if the

trump only here because trump was looking for a trump judge. but now trump judges saying, actually, maybe i should be the judge. maybe should be the d.c. circuit. that can add additional delay. obviously, even though trump loses, in front of the 11th circuit or the d.c. circuit, that decision can be appealed to the supreme court. and they can take the sweet little time to hear that case whenever they want. if that happens, after the midterms, who will obviously happen after the midterms. but if that happens after the lead up to the 2024 election. that come to the within the supreme court's purview to continue this day and not hear the case but again i always come back to this point. because it is so critical. if you let republicans control the judiciary, this is what happens. there is no way around as glenn said, you can't stop a judges order. even if it is grossly negligent and bad. you can't make it go away, if you don't have higher orders. well as to overturn. if the republicans control both the district or nail all the higher courts. what a

ban on the trump's running any new york businesses for good, and to ban donald trump and the trump organization from buying commercial real estate in new york for five years. donald trump has responded by lashing out at james personally and professionally saying, in part, in his new social media post. he says, quote, another witch hunt by what he calls a racist attorney general and called letitia james a fraud. a spokesperson for the trump organization added that it's all part of a political vendetta. the details of the case, however, are laid out in a 222-page filing. so, to help us break down the specifics of trump's alleged schemes, we have a team of cnn reporters outside some of the former president's most well-known buildings. >> reporter: hi sara, i'm outside trump tower in midtown. the new york attorney general claims donald trump not only inflated the value but also the size of his own apartment in the building, claiming it was 30,000 square feet when it was less than 11,000. the lawsuit alleges in 2015 that inflated the value of the property to $327 million. at the time, no apartment i

that will give the trump team time, i think. i think this document shows that they did not have time to really confront and grapple with what the government put forward. very stunning filing with all of the documents and the photograph. it is quite an indictment. see i don't want to put words in your mouth, john, it sounds like what you're saying is the trump team has a case for special master, although, in this filing, they don't necessarily make it in a particularly coherent fashion, fair? >> oh yeah. i think that is fair. i think the trump team might win, despite itself on the special master issue. >> let me read you another part. okay, harry, respond to that and i will read more. >> 100% essential point on the special master. it is all their cases, only for attorney-client privilege. when executive privilege, he is blown out of the water by the doj submission that he has no interest in this at all. what he says, actually, there is a concession there that says, i know there is mainly, it should be in the archives, but there i

trump had won or had they been successful in the coup early on, would they still be working for trump? and there's every reason to believe that bill barr would still be there. and you know, it's part of this complete moral collapse of the republican party. and what trump has done is he's attacked the institutions of civil society. law enforcement, judiciary, the elections themselves. and as part of that, he finds people who are corruptible. you can argue whether or not -- i don't know what the difference is between being corrupt and acting like your corrupt. it completely destroyed faith in the institutions. which is what is his goal. that is what authoritarians want to do. you don't believe in the system anymore so you have to gee to the strongman or the strongwoman, and that's the way they will save you. and that's just an extraordinarily un-american movement. because we are about these institutions. that is what makes us different -- makes us the world's longest acting democracy. >> you know, what's frightening about it, i think, let's just look. this is from my wonderful downtown

that does not stop one trump surrogate propublica speculating that the supreme court justices that trump -- would come through for the ex president and his attempts in pennsylvania before the election was even called. >> we are waiting for the united states supreme court, of which the president has nominated three justices to step in and do something and hopefully amy coney barrett will come through and pick it up. there is no guarantee that, so we had to fight this on the ground and make sure that we challenge every place that we are. >> again, the supreme court, as we all know, three of those justices, 6-3 majority trump appointed, they did intervene on behalf of trump. we also know that according to testimony from counsel of the former vice president mike pence, a coup plotter, john eastman, was telling people that conservative justices on the supreme court would essentially clear a path for the coup to take hold. eastman was in touch with clarence thomas's wife, ginni thomas at the time. eastman's time people that a pence had gotten along with a scheme to overturn the election and tu