as a lieutenant mccarthy said, kevin mccarthy one point always on us.p, call your people off. he said trump was responsible, unfortunately that iteration of kevin mccarthy lasted about a week or so. he then goes down to mar-a-lago, couple weeks later, kisses the rain, comes out of it, kevin mccarthy aspiring speaker of the house. he has no credibility, he's in a cover-up mode, he's an image reparation mode. >> it's not hard for me to believe that the president was lying to him. was one part of the conversation that was overheard where they said they thought will maybe you should be a little bit more upset as well. >> who said? the trump of that to mccarthy? >> maybe you should be a little bit more upset. >> i think we are saying something similar in that no one believed that donald trump was not watching television. i think the point of that particular revelation, even in spite of knowing that, he relate to some of the defense mode of the president of the united states, no, no, no he wasn't doing. that >> to a grieving mother. >> to a grieving mother wh

when every talk of mccarthy if to say, which kevin mccarthy talked about?tenant governor said. kevin mccarthy, one point oh, was honest. he had that conversation with trump. he said call or people of. he said, trump is responsible he said, trump told me he was responsible. unfortunately, that iteration of kevin mccarthy lasted about a week or so and he then goes out mar-a-lago, a couple weeks later kisses during, and he comes out of it as kevin mccarthy the aspiring future speaker of the house. he has no credibility in my view, all due respect to where he may texted you in today. he's in a cover-up mob. he's in damage oppression mode. >> it is not hard for me to believe that -- there is one point again that is one part of the conversation that was overheard. where they thought well maybe, but you should feel a bit more upset with that too. >> maybe you should be a little bit more upset. but i think we are seeing something similar. and that, no one believed that donald trump was not watching television. the point, i, think of that particular revelation was t

what will kevin mccarthy do? i often think about the time in march 2021 when cnn's own manu raju challenge mccarthy to explain his votes to disenfranchise the voters of pennsylvania and arizona on january six, after the plenty right based on the lies that incited that crowd. here is mccarthy's defense in part. >> if arizona and pennsylvania will be removed from the electoral college, president biden's number will be below two 70. >> donald trump said that the house -- >> i am not donald trump. you're asking me the question. i am answering your question. let me answer your question, since you asked me. so, you gave a promise that is not true. >> donald trump tried to overturn the results in congress, and you support that. >> well, now you're saying something is not true, so let me answer your question and show you how your premise is not true. >> if you listen closely, mccarthy is claiming that he did not actually vote to overturn the election, because he only supported during out the votes of two states, and that

mccarthy's gotten good with them. people pointed this out to me, when they rolled out their agenda, who was there but marjorie taylor greene in a prominent position? that is something worth considering. that is where the conference is. and that all said, if he has a night where they only have a ten-seat majority in the house i don't know that he would become speaker. i would still bet that he would. although my confidence level on that is not as high as it would be if he had, you know, a 15 to 18 to 20-seat majority. >> more time to sort starbursts if it doesn't work out. jake sherman, dave jolly, thank you so much. shifting gears completely for us, ukraine is enduring the biggest russian missile assault in months. the the strikes on multiple cities and civilian targets including in the capital city of kyiv. vladimir putin is calling it revenge for an explosion that took out a critical and symbolic bridge that connected crimea with russia. we'll check back in with our friend igor novikov who's been able to survey some

mccarthy pulled the other three.eting mccarthy said this -- >> it would be shocking to me for anybody, from a party on the other side to come and want to accept a position, democrat for me and it would be shocking for me to have a republican go to a speaker pelosi of all people to accept a committee assignment. >> reporter: in the recording fanone reminds mccarthy how dangerous the day was for mccarthy and his staff. he also brings up the phone call mccarthy had with then president trump urging him to act, a call that other republican lawmakers say dee vol fed into a shouting match. >> the president's statements that day were bs. you know. you were on the phone with him. while you were on the phone with him, i was getting the shit kicked out of me, almost losing my life. the way that he -- this is what happens when you steal an election. go home. i love you. what the [ bleep ] is that? that came from the president of the united states! >> reporter: mccarthy defended trump at various points in the moment. >> he wasn't

kevin mccarthy meet kevin mccarthy.d be done, everybody knows the rest of the story. it's just important to button it up. the infamous photo, mccarthy going down to mar-a-lago to make sure he could publicly stand with, in a very literal sense, the man who he said, quote, no one should defend. as i mentioned, trump knew what was going on. he knew the january 6th rally crowd was armed when he urged them to go to the capitol. and the capitol hill police officer pummeled in the riot has slammed mccarthy face to face in this meeting. >> the last word tonight on this topic goes to the officer, the words that he chose to share directly with leader mccarthy. we're going to fit in a break. we have something very special involving our colleague rachel maddow right after this. escriben intense burning sensation or an unbearable itch. this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. it could make your workday feel impossible. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older,

and now you have kevin mccarthy who's in the surrender caucus. he's in the surrender caucus along with a think tank, i'm not even going to mention their name, it's so disgusting who they're being allies with. and come on, "wall street journal" editorial page. don't just vomit out reports that this -- that this think tank that now aligns itself with italian fascists and aligns itself with tulsi gabbard and aligns itself with american-firsters, lindberghs of the world. don't just -- don't attack america's military and say america's military is weak. because, these lindberghian american firsters who embraced tulsi gabbard's vision of the world, who celebrates the rise of italian politicians from a party that -- whose founding was in an italian fascism. don't embrace those people. but this is where -- this is where kevin mccarthy's republican party is going. an isolationist party that like donald trump, want to surrender europe, want to surrender western democracy, want to surrender freedom to the likes of vladimir putin, orban, and yes, an ill liber

what we heard from kevin mccarthy. exactly. sumi sum westcan to thank you so much, always great speaking to you. ah. only a couple of days ago, not many people knew about l nasir copy, but after the rain in climber participated in a competition in south korea without a he job. her name made international headlines, she was applauded for her bravery for her show of support towards the protest movement and then disappeared. last night she received a hero's welcome and terran but fears are she might yet face punishment. hm. competitive climate illness recovery is back in a ran greeted by a bouquet of flowers and cheering crowds outside terren air force. but it's unclear whether any of this is staged and water fate is now. she appeared without a headscarf june, a competition in south korea the weekend. you know, they, these lamps, republic mandates that all female athletes where the he jab, recovery his claim competing without the head jab was unintentional and she denied report. she'd gone missing for around a day after t

you've seen widespread reports of kevin mccarthy and the president having a swearing conversation. present was basically saying naw, i'm ok with this. >> i had a conversatn at some point in the day or week after the riot with kevin mccarthy. it was similar to what jamie had about how he called and asked the president to get them to stop. in the presence at something along the lines of maybe these people are more angry about this than you are. i had a conversation similar to that withevin in the days and weeks after the violence. >> we know how kevin mccarthy described president trump's conduct both in public and in private. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress i mob writers. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. these facts require immediate action from president trump. to accept his share of responsibility, quell the brewing unrest and ensure president-elect biden is able to successfully begin his term. let me be very clear to all of you, and i've been clear to the president, he bears responsibility for h w

and kevin mccarthy, of course, is the house minority leader. so that means he's the top republican in the house of representatives right now. and as you said, this is an issue that until now has gotten broad bipartisan support. i mean, both parties have been very eager to show that they are firmly behind ukraine. the white house is set on multiple occasions that they see this war as fundamental to us security as well. congress has approved tens of billions of dollars of humanitarian aid at the white house, a cent, of course, billions of dollars worth of military equipment as well. so these comments have raised eyebrows. nicole and i thought it was interesting what the white house said . they were asked about mccarthy's comments and the press secretary, karen, john pierre didn't really address it. and she thanked congress for its bipartisan work and supporting ukraine. and she said, quote, the white house will continue to monitor those conversations on these efforts and support ukraine as long as it takes. so this is the 4th time we're hearing s

and buckley was defending mccarthy pretty much right up until the end, when mccarthy was censured by the u.s. senate in the end of 1954. the issue of national review that's published after mccarthy's death is filled with articles praising him, talking about his virtues, and really repeating this central line of argument, which is that, no matter his faults, mccarthy understood the basic challenge of the time. it's very similar language, i feel, to many conservatives who defend donald trump today. "sa'l yyey,ess,. yes, he does things like take the documents to mar-a-lago. but donald trump understands the threat," i think, typically today, they'll say, "from the woke left, and, therefore, he deserves our support and admiration." after mccarthy is censured, the right in america is leaderless. and so they need to find new leaders. and that process takes off with the rise of barry goldwater, culminating in his nomination for the presidency in 1964. and in goldwater, the conservatives had a leader who was true and true conservative but also much more focused on the external threat of commu

to which mccarthy is willing to compromise any morals he might have.xt you don't want to miss it. ext you don't want t miss it. ♪♪ [coughing] hi, susan. honey. yeah. i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad. try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love, plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin. the only brand with real honeyand elderberry. on january the 6th 2021, as the armed mob descended on the capitol, threatening the lives of the members inside, chanting hang mike pence while the gallows stood on the grounds, house minority leader kevin mccarthy finally got through on the phone to donald trump. he told the then president to call off the riot and trump reportedly responded, quote, well, kevin, i guess these people are more upset about the election than you are. today, we learned what mccarthy reportedly said back to donald trump. according to a new book by journalist robert draper, leader mccarthy yelled, quote, more upset? they are trying to effing kill me! that's how kevin mccarthy actual

what mccarthy's view is. i'm all you have. the only thing standing between donald trump and you here. how did that work out for jamie has rare re beutler? >> not well. obviously. lost her primary and not coming back to congress anymore. important, too, because a lot of moderate republicans, members like jamie herrera beutler, when mccarthy went down to visit trump at mar-a-lago right after january 6th a lot of privately criticized him. why did you do this? doing this for you. to protect you. clearly, that didn't work out very well. another thing to note, though, about all of this is that, you know, mccarthy, again, he wants to be speaker some day and clearly he has a problem following his own conscience. he wanted to do one thing and ends up freaking out going in the opposite direction. a man potentially we're going to see lead the house in a couple of weeks if republicans flip the chamber. >> politically seems this ability of him to selectively forget things seems to benefit him. right? politically others could not forget wha

former epa administrator, gina mccarthy.ustling there and coming on the sunday show. >> okay, jonathan. thank you. >> all right. well, with just 36 days until the midterms, the congressional black caucus is holding its annual legislative conference in washington right now. they have influential events that are putting a spotlight on key issues that will likely be on the ballot next month. and could offer a preview of how democrats can keep control of congress. joining me now in studio is host of politicsnation, reverend al sharp. he is also founder and president of the national action network, and the author of righteous troublemakers, untold stories of the social justice movement in america. and one more point, it's his birthday tomorrow. so birthday boy, reverend al sharpton. thank you very much for coming back to the sunday show. >> thank you. glad to be with you, always. >> so, what's the mood among democrats? again, this is cbc weekend. tons of folks around. what is the mood among democrats? are they still confident tod

he hated mccarthy, despised mccarthy.mccarthy hadn't really just become powerful person he was, he became a destructive person. his attack on general marshall was extraordinary. i quote some of it in the book, and people remember just a couple of lines. it was pretty insane, some of the things he said. the idea that marshall was at the root of everything, the loss of china... it's extraordinary and crazy. i don't know whether mccarthy -- there's a number of books about mccarthy, too. and i think richard revere said, he wrote the line that he saw anti communism as a sort of a great oil, it came up a gusher and he went for it. i think he but after a while, he began to truly believe this stuff. he was very popular with the journalists because he was great copy. but then it became more serious. he was the villain of herb block cartoons. and then he began to chart a path to his own destruction under eisenhower. >> i sort of brought up herbert hoover. truman certainly had an effect on herbert hoover by bringing him to the oval

kevin mccarthy gives a window into his agenda. should republicans take back the house. >>> martial law. russia signs off on new decrees from vladimir putin trying to exert more power over ukraine. >>> president biden in a new move designed to help your budget a bit and hopes also maybe his outlook. in just a short while the president announces a batch of new oil drawn from the strategic petroleum reserve, some 15 million barrels and his energy team today won't rule out releasing more oil over the winter. team biden hopes adding a little more supply to the market keeps prices stable, maybe even helps drive them down a bit. the hope is voters see this as proof the president is doing whatever he can to help in an election year where worries about inflation and the economy are a big drag on democrats. straight to the white house live to our cnn's phil mattingly. tell us more. >> reporter: look, there are few things that the individuals in the building behind me care about more than gas prices, yes, it has a massive effect on consumers

mccarthy is very attuned to that. and while i think that he certainly has established members of the republican party who would like to see our fiscal house in order, as they say, taking care of, he is going to be dealing night and day with the maga wing of the party. it is far more focused on these. >> and just one more thing from your book. it sounds like marjorie taylor greene will also have more of a starring role. there is something from your book. you say that she said -- you, i guess, posed this question to her. >> right. >> and she says to you, i think to be the best speaker of the house, and to please the base, he's going to give me a lot more power and a lot of leeway, she predicted. >> right, that sounds like bravado but i think there's truth to it. not because kevin mccarthy wants to do her any favors but because, once again, he recognizes that the trumpist wing of the republican party is the loudest voice in the room and that she is the proximate disciple or person who represents trumpism. so, if mccarthy

today, we learned what mccarthy reportedly said back to donald trump.new book by journalist robert draper, leader mccarthy yelled, quote, more upset? and they are trying to effing kill me! that's how kevin mccarthy actually felt on january the 6th, when he believed his life was in danger. but, we had lee, that's not the tone we've heard from kevin mccarthy since, over the past 18 months. leader mccarthy has downplayed that armed insurrection, and attack democrats and the committee investigating the investigation. >> they are avoiding accountability. speaker pelosi's select committee on january 6th is unlike any other committee in american history. in fact, it is the most political and lease legitimate committee in american history. there is nothing i can provide the january 6th committee for legislation of their moving forward. there is nothing in that realm. it is pure politics. one thing i know is that since nancy has appointed this political committee, gas has gone up $1.86. >> and that is what he has said in public. a few weeks after january 6th, ke

but kevin mccarthy really wants to be speaker of the house. and he will do anything to be speaker of the house. you know, he's not concerned about his legacy. he's only concerned with retaining power and obtaining that position. and so what he did was, you know, in the immediate aftermath of january 6, he saw it for what it was. he voiced that, vocalized it on the house floor. and then when he realized it was going to be politically disadvantageous to stay that course. he reversed course, went down to mar-a-lago, kissed trump's ass. and now we're seeing, you know, a very different approach to what january 6th was for him and the rest of the republican party. >> well, yeah, the polling on this is shocking. republicans on whole are more prone to believe january 6 was a legitimate today than they were previously. >> and that said, it's a combination you've got fox news pumping propaganda out, downplaying, you know, the reality of that day. and then you also have elected representatives in congress and other political positions going back to their

kevin mccarthy doesn't have the power to--if donald trump says impeached joe biden, what's kevin mccarthy do? >> this is not a case, chris, where either mccarthy can attempt to herd the cats were, boehner, and ryan tried to do before him. or a case where he will just simple humor people like marjorie taylor greene and others of the maga caucus by giving them one plum committee assignment or giving them one opportunity to offer a piece of legislation. no, her point is that the maga base is the center of gravity in the republican party. i think she happens to be right, and that if mccarthy knows what's good for him. if he wants to not only become speaker but state speaker, then he will have to essentially acquiesce to this agenda. >> you write this from the new york times. you say, in victory greene's voice might well become drowned out amid the growing chorus of maga supplicants, impeach biden? when she first proposed in january, 21 eyes roll. knows all but given the gop has majority with seas come reginald swiftly peace greetings proceedings. the ghani assertion back in 2021. now even the

kevin mccarthy.publicans are in favor of impeachment. but we've also said, we don't know what they're gonna impeach him for. they're not saying one thing, they want to impeach biden for. that goes back to the big lie, and 60% of the republicans don't believe that joe biden is a legitimate president because they don't believe he was elected justly. so, they would want him to be removed from office if you believe that they -- and who's the guy that allow the big lie to become republican gospel. kevin mccarthy. weeks after the insurrection, after there was a mob that stormed the capitol, that wanted to kill mike pence, chanting hang mike pence. kevin mccarthy, a couple weeks later, flew down to mar-a-lago and got his picture taken with trump. but we should have been shutting if he had any backbone. but kevin mccarthy thought it was better to appease the ego of the loser of the election. even if it meant selling out his virtues, selling out the country, selling out his party. and his twitter handle's, go

went up to the michael mccarthy something. graham did they come on as individuals? yeah. so just thinking about it seems to me he he could have been stopped only people joined forces. absolutely. now, what were you thinking, though? what was i thinking. yeah. that he could have been stopped. i think he could have been stopped. well, okay. i think he could have been stopped impeachment. one maybe not. it wasn't clear cut. it was a little complicated. and i think, look, once he's president, you get a berth, right? i mean the two times when he could have been stopped were i mean, election day. i mean, election day within a 72 hour period. i mean, he lost. okay. it was clear within 48 hours that this was trending clearly towards biden. the numbers were moving that way. that is traditionally when every single leader of the party falls line. okay, the whole like, oh, well, the president has to you know, he's fully in his rights exhaust every legal recourse or whatever. you know, that's just absolute --. and the reason they weren't l

i think if the republicans win the house, kevin mccarthy can become speaker.can out-wait a divide and weak. >> it comes as congress looks to -- include up to 50 billion dollars in aid to ukraine. they want to get that done before january, for all the reasons that you. a. >> this is showing though the superiority of u.s. and nato weapons. it's extraordinary how accurate the systems are, how they have changed the tide, ukraine is outnumbered, but their tactics and weapons are so much better. they are beating the russian military. china is watching this. china, if they're taking and making a move towards taiwan, sees what ukraine is doing with u.s. backing. it's a hugely important moment. >> i want to make sure that we got to the story about how russian authorities are forcibly adopting and repatriating children from occupied ukraine as russian citizens. these kids are separated from families and taken to rush against their will. how does that speak to how putin is envisioning his conflict? >> that you bludgeon and terrorize your opponent into submission. he did

and this part, more upset, mccarthy yelled back, incredulously, according to an account he gave a fewater to a republican colleague, they're trying to effing kill me. so that's sort of something new. he's saying to him, you know, i'm upset. they're trying to kill me. >> sure. that's right. this is kevin mccarthy, not just expressing chagrin and concern about the capitol, but expressing deep existential concern for his own personal safety, and so, of course, that's relevant when we look at mccarthy's behavior in the weeks to follow when he then went to mar-a-lago, and basically kissed trump's ring. believing once again that without the maga base they can't retake the majority and he can't be speaker. >> it is really amazing the change, the quick evolution we see and you detail it so well in here, really adding to what we know. robert, thank you so much for being with us. the book is called weapons of mass delusion and, again, it is out now. thank you. >>> yet another prediction this morning on where the u.s. economy is headed. more on the warning of a 1990 style recession ahead. >>> an

we are $31 trillion in debt. >> laura: of course mccarthy's right.mild comment if you ask me and the sooner the gop wakes up to the fact and starts focusing on the needs of american families, given everything that's happening here, the better off republicans and the country will be politically. joining me now house republican study committee chair jim banks and mollie hemingway editor in chief at the federalist and fox news contributor. congressman banks, which argument do you favor that we shouldn't have a blank check going over there to ukraine or apparently no end to the spending. >> leader mccarthy is exactly right. he's stating the obvious. no more blank checks around the world to solve problems overseas when america is on its knees at home. we can't be the leader around the world when we have such big issues to solve in america. we need to secure the border, address inflation, address crime, deal with gas prices first before we can help other countries. and leader mccarthy, he said it, all of washington, the main stream left wing media, the lib

that came from the president of the united states. >> obviously you talking to mccarthy.hat? >> well, at first i thought it was shocking that, you know, what he was saying was that he was taking credit for having convinced the president to release that and i mean -- >> the i love you video. >> the i love you video. the most disingenuous and i mean that's i think, you know, putting it lightly effort to quell the violence that day by donald trump, and he seemed to think that or at least he was trying to convince us that that was in some way significant and that he was in some way responsible for that. but i mean the meeting itself, there was very little substance, you know, like you said, he was making efforts to kind of run out the clock, he knew that the optics at that point had become so bad that it was, you know, politically disadvantageous for him to continue to, you know, kind of kick the can down the road, so to speak, with regards to a meeting with myself or mrs. sicknick. >> you and mrs. sicknick and -- you were hoping to essentially just and -- you were hoping to

mccarthy. worried are democrats? just today biden directed the democratic committee to transfer another $18 million to help house and senate democrats in their races. that include a high profile race in new york featuring the head of the democratic congressional campaign committee, a member of house lip. the dccc is so worried about it own chairman, sean patrick maloney, that the dccc is throwing another $600,000 in the race to defend him. that alone for at democrats is alarming. but when democrats are concerned about house seats in new england, that is a flashing red light. first lady jill biden heads to rhode island tomorrow to help a democratic house candidate there. vice president kamala harris visited connecticut earlier this month to help a house democratic candidate there, and republicans are reportedly now recommitting money in new hampshire to try to unseat democratic senator maggie hassan. continuing our trip now through the political landscape, let's go visit my home commonwealth of

it will elect kevin mccarthy speaker. he is assuming that he will play this state that he will be elected speaker. that is his main goal. >> in tonight's ohio senate debate, he tried to go after his component for cozying up to team leaders. we want to know what we heard this morning. >> if chuck schumer -- >> would be a pain in the rear and to him to. ohio needs an as kicker have not kisser. >> your thoughts on that line or? >> he delivered it well and with the course of the someone i met years ago when he launched his book who had some level of authenticity. now it's completely abandoned. it's in pursuit of power. like many other republicans, they know there is no integrity or character in the course of this. i think tim ryan has laid this erase. no one thought it would be that way. ohio is aiming republican state these days. he made it into a race. i hope the democrats want to win this, they help find tim ryan. if they want to win this race, tim ryan is running as good race, he is complete charlatan. >> so much swirling

let mccarthy have it. i mean mccarthy gave his famous first speech and in wheeling in 1950 and truman truman actually was one press conference when truman said that mccarthy mccarthy is the he's the best friend the kremlin has and then he actually those were the days when when presidents could take it back. there was they had to get you had to get permission to be quoted directly and they went to charlie ross his press secretary. he said can we use that in truman modified it somewhere but he was he heated because he despise the car because he because they just hadn't really begun become the powerful person. he was he become the destructive person that he was he his attack on on general marshall was was extraordinary. in fact, in fact, i i a quote some of it in the book and it's just people just people just people just people remember just a couple of lines, but it was pretty insane. i mean some of the things he said, i mean the idea that marshall is it the root of of everything lost china they yeah, they c

built it wasn't mccarthy's opposition speaking out.ho would lead the house foreign affairs committee if they took control said arms to ukraine should be increased. in an interview, he argued america should be sending longer range missile systems not holding aid back. and former vice president mike pennsylvania was asked about the issue during an interview with fox news yesterday. he answered after a long sigh. >> house minority leader kevin mccarthy wants to become the next speaker of the house said if republicans take the gavel, then america will no longer be a blank check for the war in ukraine. do you take issue with that? >> you know, the unite throughout our history understood that we need to be the leader of the free world. that includes being the arsenal of democracy. and in the days of reagan, we understood the value of confronting the russians and communism in the world. not by futuring them directly but making sure the people fighting the communists in this hemisphere or around the world had resources they need. >> that was a

mccarthy is making more of a partisan issue that it had been. to interject it into the campaign in a way that it had not been. there had been a more or less consensus that america was standing behind ukraine, would do what it had to do, what it takes to do. obviously, it is going to cost the money. obviously, there's a price to pay. it cost us a whole lot less than it cost europe right now. much more susceptible to russian pressure, economic consequences from this. you know, up until mccarthy's comment today, there had been broadly speaking, a bipartisan consensus in the middle, anyway, about how to handle this. he's now trying to make this more of a partisan issue, because he is playing to the trumpian right. >> or possibly, playing to putin with three weeks to go before the election. and mccarthy, looking for help from for republicans in any way that he can. joyce, let's talk about trump's other legal troubles. he had to answer questions under oath today in the e. jean carroll defamation case. we do not know what he said. but we do want to kno

trump she said sided with the rioters over mccarthy.nce at the capitol was at its worse. now, we are learning more about the fallout from herrera butler's admission. a new book by two "washington post" reporters says mccarthy rebuked herrera butler with such force that she cried. quote, you should have come to me, mccarthy said. why did you go to the press? this is no way to thank me. what did you want me to do? lie? herrera butler shot back. i did what i thought was right. this, the authors write, was just the start of what would become a gop wide campaign to whitewash the details of what happened on january 6th in the aftermath of the second impeachment. mccarthy and herrera butler have both denied the details of that meeting in a statement to the authors. joining me now is "the washington post" reporter, jackie, also an msnbc contributor. this is not your book even though it is reporting by two of your colleagues. we keep getting a drip, drip, drip about what mccarthy said, how he felt in the days after the insurrection. the day of t

you have mccarthy there, hiding in fort mcnair just like everybody else, sensibly.brought them there for their own security. mcconnell, you have steve scalise there as well. any talk about these were just, you know, regular tourists? certainly didn't seem like the republicans believe that there is mccarthy right there staring at the camera. he didn't seem to believe that on that day. >> well, of course and mcconnell and mccarthy initially came out and denounced trump for this. and as carl rightly points out, then they've shifted their position to safe territory for republicans in the trump era. the whole thing is so absurd that it defies our grandchildren are going to be looking at footage like this and accounts of what have happened, and they are going to say, what the heck was going on in america? because liz cheney is right. all roads lead to trump on this. and again, what all of this shows is he's fallen into himself so completely that he didn't realize, he didn't care about other people at all. i mean, it is absolutely astounding behavior and as we know from re

what that says about mccarthy, we have a lot of nuggets about mccarthy, he's going to be a weak speaker that's right and then he knows there's something wrong. >> that's fascinating to me, he's meeting in the days after january 6 what we're calling more rod rid or pragmatic. we should sensor trump. trump is gone, he's going to fade away. then within days he's on his way to mar-a-lago saying you're my man. >> he's doing that with trump and hiding from his own rank and file. taking his own impeachment vote on the floor so he doesn't are to face anybody. then a few days later, he's l lambasting for ever having to tell the truth. as rachel was saying he's not very strong. and blowing with the wind if wind is blowing against trump, he's going to go with the least common denominator and follow that lead. the thing is the stakes of this matter, looking at the history of this is a cautionary tale. there's clearly a ground swell on the gop to try to impeach joe biden over many different things. kevin mccarthy is someone who show he's not someone to stand against that tide. and the stuff that we

green says mccarthy should give her a lot of power expect trouble.he president. >> i think there is a certain number of republican voters who want revenge for the two impeachments of president trump. they will be satisfied with nothing else but i think it can't be something manufactured something out of whole cloth. it has got to be credible. you have to be able to sell the impeachment idea to a very broad range of americans. so yeah -- reporter: republicans contend they will focus on the economy but shrill voices inside of the gop conference could prevail. fox has told mccarthy is right at the margin of votes required to become speaker. higher gop turnout could mean more gop members. that would give mccarthy a cushion. neil: chad, thank you for that. go to mark greene, tennessee republican congressman, house foreign services committee, foreign affairs committee, served the country nobly. congressman, leaving aside impeachment proceedings against the president, that might be a leap too far, kevin mccarthy talking about less support for ukraine, sayin

and also why does kevin mccarthy think that this message works?ans think they can talk about slashing social security and medicare and not lose politically? >> well, they lost talking about health care and people were saying, you're talking about crazy things. we're not going to vote for you, we're going to vote for our economic interests. i think now, they've been taken over. they're the party of big lies. they're the party of donald trump. they're the party of people who do not identify with even liz cheney. i mean, it's crazy now. but i think we are talking about it, we're talking about it in a slightly different way. freedom is on the ballot. right to vote, freedom on the ballot, freedom for our democracy is on the ballot. so i think we are -- you can't -- it's a very diverse set of things that people care about right now. so, you have to focus on economics. because that's always one of the key things. >> yeah. >> that people are focusing on. we've got a high cost of living right now. we've got global inflation rates that are still high. peopl

uh, house of representatives of the future nancy pelosi, uh, mccarthy who literally said this listen to house gop leader kevin mccarthy saying republicans are ready to forego aid to ukraine next year if they get control of the house of representatives, i think the people will be in a recession, and they are not going to write a check to ukraine, the congressman told mccarthy, saying that one of the reasons for the refusal aid is the biden administration 's ignorance of domestic issues that the republican party considers a priority people are starting to weigh that ukraine is important. but at the same time. that can't be the only thing they're doing, he said, independent analysts say the republicans are likely to gain control of the house in the november election and mccarthy is ready to take over as speaker if that happens. seriously, actually, especially since yesterday and barack obama, who is generally. now probably the most popular in the democratic party. the popular joe biden said exactly the same thing, that some limits should be set for american aid to ukraine, while biden s