i'm plugging in 3% growth, not the cbo's lowball 1.8%.l return to the growth dividend theme in a few moments. now, then it gets a little easier. i plug many in a $1.7 trillion mandatory savings which even the cbo agrees upon. and then, actually, a new cbo report i plug in tariff revenues of $2.8 trillion over the next 10 years. that's, by the way, assuming a 10% universal baseline tariff. now unfortunately, much as i like the cbo estimate and their acknowledgment of what's happening already in the first half of this year, unfortunately the cbo won't count it for the one big, beautiful bill because congress didn't appropriate it. but it's there. and it will slash the deficit, and we will sell a lot fewer bonds. so i can come up with an $8.5 trillion deficit reduction over the 10-year planning period. that's a darn sight better than cbo's $2.4 trillion deficit increase. all right? 8.5% -- $8.5 trillion reduction in the deficit. look, you can play with these numbers interactively. if you lower the growth dividends tend let's say to 2.6%, you

this could be the cbo dummy chart.alking, we'll put the cbo dummy chart on how many other things they got wrong down through the years. but i don't want to make this too personal. [laughter] larry: i'm just saying it's a deficit reduction panel, okay? the deficit's going to come down somewheres between $4-8 trillion other the next 10 years. >> yeah. this is a tremendous blowback to this idea that this is really a terrible hit to our country's fiscal situation -- larry: right. >> and i love the fact that you also use different growth assumptions, and people can see how important that is. well, why is that important, larry? if because we need this bill to go through. we need these tax cuts to go through in order to get that that growth. and, honestly, you have made the case over and over again, but congress doesn't understand or doesn't seem to understand that that growth is such a powerful multiplier that you will get so many benefits from not just, by the way, this tax bill, but also deregulation and inviting foreigner

newt, i want to do russian sanctions, but before that, cbo. cbo mistakes, okay? is the trump tax cut revenue estimates, they were off by $2.3 trillion. in 2018 they predicted $27 trillion, 2024 actual $29.3 trillion. the cbo missed $2.3 trillion, newt. that's one. and the second one is the biden inflation reduction act. they originally prodirected savings -- projected savings of $58 billion, then the actual cost a few years later was $428 billion. so that's a $486 billion miss. but, actually, the estimates were over $1 trillion by private sources. so the cbo, i mean, they should just get out of the business of estimating, but they certainly -- this tax cut bill is not going to cost $4 trillion, newt gingrich. >> no. look, this is one of the great dilemmas and, frankly, puzzles. when we balanced the budget for four consecutive years for the on the time in a century, we fought cbo every day. the fact is it's 5 a 25 left-wing thinkers, almost all of them democrats -- 525 -- they were consistently wrong. the minimum thing that should happen right now, this week or ne

when the numbers are numbers, you do like you do like the cbo. >> can we tell america what cbo is? the congressional budget office, which is supposed to be nonpartisan and score bills? every bill that is supposed. >> to be nonpartisan agree with you? >> well. >> it's supposed to be. >> and by the. >> way, scott bessent the numbers. you like the cbo, you don't like the numbers? >> i don't i don't like mistakes. i make mistakes all the time. >> scott bessent use the cbo as justification. >> for one of his arguments, which is a larger point, which is only using it when it's convenient for them. but let's take a step back. if donald trump were serious about the deficit, he would not be giving more tax cuts to billionaires if he were serious about helping working class people, he wouldn't create more barriers for people to get on medicaid and create more work requirements. when 90% of people are either working or training. >> to work. so you think that republican, the republican president that just won an overwhelming victory should raise taxes and increase welfare in this country? i th

cbo is totally mis scored. his cbo. >> is run by a republican who actually used to work in the trump administration. first of all. >> you're saying. >> people that. >> work don't hate donald trump. >> the second thing is that a republican congress approved this cbo director. the third thing is that. >> they made a mistake. they're not infallible. >> they're not the pope. speaker johnson, just three years ago, was citing the cbo. three years ago biden bill. so i don't understand. >> they're not infallible. they've made a mistake. >> the same cbo said that the inflation reduction act, which joe biden sponsored, would would reduce the deficit. then as soon as it got passed, they had to come back and revise. it said, oh no, we were wrong. we overestimated it. so when joe biden needed rosy numbers, this cbo came up with rosy numbers. now donald trump and mike johnson has never. listen to. >> negative people at home can judge for themselves. but it sure seems like when the numbers are numbers you don't like, you don'

in 2017, the cbo was off of its productions by $1 trillion. what are the flaws in cbo's scoring? dir. vought: other than the baselines they use they don't reflect or are comparable without a tree spending. cbo assumes spending will continue. all your appropriations bills, not on an annual basis which they are passed on but continue with inflation over the life of the 10-year window. that is not the case for tax revenue. for the law, the way it was written and the way cbo operates, they judge an expiration date to be something that causes it to look like a new cost to taxpayers. they have had just historically on dynamic assumptions with regard to -- undynamic assumptions with regard to policy moves therein. rep. alford: i want to talk about the rescission package you sent over. the $9.4 billion package. secretary rubio was sitting there two weeks ago. there have been 5341 u.s. aig awards terminated -- usaid awards terminated. you rescission package only includes $9.3 billion for state and foreign aid? dir. vought: correct. rep. alford: will receive further rescission packages tha

the cbo was wrong on that in 2017.you point out, they didn't account for the extra economic growth along with president trump's energy policies and deregulation. the cbo was way off on obamacare, it said it would increase the number of people on medicaid by 16 million, 34 million went on that. the cbo also predicted 24 million would get insurance through the obamacare exchanges and just 14 million did. more people went on medicaid. the cbo's been way off on that. >> yeah. listen, they've had a lot of variance, no question about it. the bill has some tweaking, probably a lot done by next friday. one of the tweaks that's freaked out a lot of senators is this idea of empowering the irs to audit businesses for nine years that took ers tax credits. that's a nonstarter, so i'm sure they're going to work on that language. there's a lot of little things going on here. but you're right, the overriding issue is how to score the cbo -- how do you work with forecasts a decade out? elizabeth: kevin o'leary, you're wonderful. thanks

a far cry from cbo estimate of 2.5 trillion defset increase.nfortunately, even that pro growth deficit reduction plan am not eliminate the deficit, i get that. as senator lank ford said we're not paying off the jumbo mortgage in just one year. that is the riff. let's talk about that bring in friend kentucky senator rand paul. as always good to see you. >> thank you. larry: so president trump has a disagreement with you or you with him here, said you are always voting no. you deny that, i know you endorse mr. trump, but are you always voting no? are you dr. no. >> >> i do recall voting no on two of his impeachments, and i think he was okay with those. i recall voting yes on his cabinet, and guiding through kristi noem through my committee, to be appointed in very quick fashion. so, i think i have been quite supportive of the president, but i think if some ways we're talking past each other, for example, i support tax cuts. i don't think that cbo is right, i think agree with art laffer, reduce rates get more revenue, i tax cuttings have paid ther

. >> i was quoting the cbo. >> so the cbo now says it.much of it is being absorbed by the producers. >> well it certainly is true for new parents. in addition to the five popular products on amazon that new parents need, there is another, we did another analysis on a baby list registry. new parents in america will pay total over the next year about $875 more for their products than they would have paid before the presence tariffs. lastly, i just want to note that the cbo has made clear at the republican budget bill will take away healthcarefrom millions and millions of americans. both medicaid coverage and the affordable care act coverage. dimension, it will trigger a $500 billion cut to medicare that will impact providers in rural hospitals. and it will add trillions of dollars to the national debt. so, mr. secretary, this is all to pay for massive tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires. why do you need a tax cut at the expense of health care for millions of americans? >> well i would dispute those numbers. 1.4 million illegal aliens

so do you only believe the cbo when a democrat is president, mr. speaker? >> no. very easy to explain. the cbo sometimes gets projections correct, but they are always off when they project economic growth. they underestimate the growth with tax cuts and regulations. when we did this in 2017, the first two years of the trump administration, we literally brought about the greatest economy in the history of the world, not just the u.s. because we got the government off the backs of the people who create jobs and allow hardworking americans to have more money in their pocket to take home. we're doing that again. remember, in this big, beautiful bill is there are benefits for everybody, it's geared for hardworking american, lower and middle income americans, no tax on ps, no tax on overtime. no tax on loans for products bought in the usa and relief to seniors and social security. it will allow everybody to do better and at the same time ensuring the largest amount on savings. no government on earth has saved $1.6 trillion in a piece of legislation, this one does. so wh

give me your assessment of the cbo score today. speak of the bill is not pretty.are already deep in debt as a country and based on cbo this bill is going to add $3 trillion more to the debt as written. it includes a number of temporary provisions of those are made permanent. what's actually going to add $5 trillion to the debt to. >> john: the score at god is even worse than the score they got -- i want to take this and viewers standby we're going to talk about budget scoring. the cbo being the nonpartisan one that guesses how the budgets will play out in the future. the speaker in the house says essentially the cbo doesn't count economic activity as a result of the tax cuts and so forth. help us understand whether his -- where his critique has merit and where it's incomplete. >> sure. the congressional budget office in the joint committee for behavioral effects. for- of some tax goes up i might do something different. they haven't yet incorporated how that might affect the economy. cbo is working on that. we do have enough data out there to suggest the answer is

this is not the cbo projection that republicans have not liked. this is the projection they are using, says the debt will add $500 billion in the first five years. they say somehow miraculously in the last five years it gets to a $500 billion in savings. so it's a $1 trillion shift from 0 year five to year ten. the cbo scores it differently, not as encouraging and says it adds over $3 trillion in debt. so which is it? does this bill save $500 billion over ten or does it add $3 trillion over ten? the truth is that anybody that even a person with a magic crystal ball, it's anybody's guess, which brings us back to maybe we have to judge the effects of the big, not so beautiful bill by looking at what happens to the debt next year. supporters of the bill admit it adds $270 billion to the debt next year. that's the only thing we know for certain. we don't know what happens in year 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, but we know next year this bill will grow the deficit by $270 billion. in addition, the bill increases the debt ceiling by $5 trillion. what does that mean

this report from the cbo, ryan gave us a great fact check that the cbo is not partizan in how they operateartisan organization. in fact, the head of it is a republican who served under the george bush administration. and the cbo actually explicitly prohibits employees from engaging in political activity that could be perceived as bias. so, congressman rose, what do you make of that attack line? >> it's absurd. and they're not basing that off of anything. i mean, there are no legitimate experts, even outside of the cbo, that claim that this is a fiscally responsible bill. but let's for a moment assume, in a world of flying pigs and fairies that this is fiscally responsible. look at what they're still trying to do. they're trying to cut health care throughout the country for hard working people who rely on it every day. that's going to lead to hospitals closing and hundreds of thousands of people getting fired. all to give that money away to people who certifiably do not need it, who are their donors. so if that's what they need to lean back on here, this is not going to work out. the truth

. >> you don't need to go back that far to see how wrong the cbo has been when it comes time to make prognostications. liz: the trump white house and gop leadership, they are ratcheting up and going after the official score keepers for the big beautiful bill and the trump tax cuts, hammering the cbo. we've got the update on its history of miscalculations including its latest math miss on trump's big beautiful bill, plus we've got the latest on the white house as trade talks with china today in london as china is signaling it's ready to make a deal. florida congressman carlos gimenez joins me next. please stick with us we'll be back in two. can i have another pancake? from full house... ♪ ...to empty nest... ♪ ...to free birds. ♪ vanguard. we got this. fifty years of helping you invest for every chapter. not getting the results you expect? don't use ai trained on any old data when you can use ai trained on your data. the ai built for business. ibm. is a bitcoin etf the same as owning bitcoin directly? while bitcoin etfs might offer a familiar face, they lack the true ownership and fle

bessent: it is the cbo score. if you want to use cbo, lets you cbo.hey are claiming 2.4 trillion in new debt, and they are also saying 2.8 in tariff income. even in washington math, that is plus 400 billion. rep. beyer: that does miss the $500 billion in the new interest on the debt, which takes up to 3 trillion. sec. bessent: you don't agree with the cbo either. rep. beyer: your counterpart, sec. lutnick recently declared on television, president trump tariffs are not going away even with your deal on china that you announced. sec. lutnick was asked by senator kennedy if he would accept a deal that moves trade barriers for places like vietnam. he gave an answer that was all over the place and difficult to understand. we are less than a month away from liberation day part two. very few of the trade deals have been announced yet. most people in congress and around the world would like to know what is going on? should america be preparing for liberation day 2.0? what do we plan for july 9 and july 2? sec. bessent: as i have repeatedly said, there are 18

was asked about those cbo projections. he was also asked about cuts to various programs such as medicaid and emergency funding for aids relief. this house appropriations subcommittee hearing is almost two hours. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> the subcommittee on financial service than general government will come to order. this was entitled the budget and the office of management and budget. members were five days with which to revise and extend the remarks at insert extraneous material into the record. i now recognize myself for an opening statement. i'd like to thank director vought for being here today. the office of management and budget over the place of suitable and most of the decision made in the executive branch particularly relates to the federal budget. it's also important member ownbb is an office created by congress here in 1921 congress passed the budget andnd accounting act of 1921 1921 which created the bureau of budget under the department treasury. in 1939

i'm going to plug in 1.7 trillion in mandatory savings, which the cbo basically agrees with. that gives me $4.7 trillion in lower deficits over the next ten years. $5 trillion just to use round numbers here. that represents $5 trillion in deficit reduction and far cry from the cbo estimate of a $2.5 trillion deficit increase. unfortunately even pro growth getting that and senator james lankford going to say on this show last night "we're not going to pay off the jumbo mortgage in just one year". lower spending, faster growth, leading to growth dividends would impact, institute as mr. miller says the best plan in the western world. and that is the riff. all right. let's talk about that. let's bring in our friend, kentucky senator rand paul. senator paul as always, good to see you,. >> thank you. larry: president trump said he has a disagreement and you're denying that and endorsing mr. trump and after the election. are you always voting no? >> i do report them and two of the impeachments and voting with the nos and i recall guiding them going to be appointed for them and going

cbo is about to announce that could go from 13 million, 27 people lose their come up to as many as 16 million. a new calculations will show that even medicare is under the knife. so this is healthcare across the board. it is of course medicaid as important as that is, it is aca, it is private insurance which is been skyrocketing. it's everything that is terrible. terrible. so the news that even worse got even worse when we thought it couldn't get much worse. the bottom line is very simple. people with this bill, tens of millions with otherwise qualified realtor benefits would be mummified the new red tape, short and enrollment periods come higher premiums in weaker coverage. people will fall through the cracks and get phased out of coverage in the coming years. death by a thousand paper cuts here that the intention of the republican bill and we all know one thing. donald trump is just lying about the bill. line about the bill. well, here's the we are all going to die at. nearly 14,000,000, but it is 16, getting closer to 16 according to cbo numbers. 11 my 11 million people cutm afford

the cbo scoring. >> i believe. >> which is.. >> unfortunately, this is an institution in our. >> country that has become partizan. >> and political. >> now, the congressional budget office is a nonpartisan institution. the washington post fact checker gave the white house's claims about the cbo being a political entity. four pinocchios, all the pinocchios they have to give. that is reality here. is that the only problem with the cbo's number is that they make republicans look bad. don't take my word for it. here was republican congressman jason smith, the chairman of the house ways and means committee and one of the main republicans championing trump's big ugly bill. here was jason smith last month, preemptively talking about his skepticism around budget data. before we even saw this data at all. >> i'm very skeptical. >> unless i like the. >> number. >> i'm. >> against the number and i'm just being. >> just being. >> completely honest. >> unless i like the number, i'm against the number telling us everything that was going to

it sounded like you were saying that the cbo read there is a cbo reduction and that's been agreed to by the cbo as well. >> i wouldn't say agreed to. i don't think they would agree with that. the total amount we had to reduce for this coming year this first year of the budget cycle to 25 to 26 was $9.6 million. i meant to say every one of the cbo shows that as getting a contract reduction that is part of that $9.6 million has been notified and so everybody knows those that are impacted know that they're in the 9.6 million. and for all the other cbo as we've said, if you haven't heard from us, you're you're not in the reductions for this first year. but obviously we're signposting to everybody. we need to go through a community wide exercise of trying to find the additional 17 million. also to put in perspective the 9.6 plus the 17 when added in total amounts to about 4% of our total cbo spending on an annual basis. and the reason why we i mean we do identify other efficiencies at but most of our spending on fte is across the system is in things like running the general or running lag

cbo and the director there, this is what "the wall street journal" reports, what the cbo is doing is what it's supposed to do. the agency measures proposals using methods required by congress. it isn't advocating for or against any policy and cbo's post forecast was correct and by the way he is a republican. what is the issue then? if they are using methods congress tells them they have to use are those methods wrong? >> the baseline to go against does require what i just articulated however cbo is not precluded by putting out the most accurate announcements they want to. they can put out a score until the world this is the parameters for which we have to judge but they also can put out alternative analysis and say this is currently policy baseline and this is what the bill will do as a result. they don't have to be asked to do that kind of analysis and when we look at the fact that they are often -- they can't see the forest through the trees. last year they said the border security bill would reduce the deficit. when you think about what's happening over the course of the last few

that's cbo, not me. now, how do you do that? you grow the economy, and you begin to control spending in a commonsense way. most people can relate to that because they do it all the time. people at home sometimes have to work extra to meet the needs of their family, and they have to tighten their belt. so what have we achieved here in the one big, beautiful bill? we are going to make your border as secure as it possibly can be and never go back to open borders. we're going to put in place border security measures that keep it secure. we're going to make the tax cuts permanent so your taxes do not go up in december of this year, and we're going to add additional pro-growth policies to help our economy. we're going to reform medicaid in a way that makes sense, deal with the waste, fraud, and abuse of that program so that there's more money for the disabled and children because the more money you give the able-bodied who can work is money -- less money for children and people on disability. and one of the most perverse things about

maria: so i mean peter, the cbo talking about this is -- is from ron johnson, by the way, peter cbo talkingut, you know 22 trillion in 10-year deserts 2.2 trillion a year total debt from current 37 trillion to 59 trillion by 2035, i have a hard time believing in a tv mandates are going to cut into that very much, was it the ev mandates not a in the bill that sent elon going nuts? >> well, look. ev mandates, will first of all president trump, if i had a dime for every time president trump said on campaign trail he was going to end ewill thev mandate, i had have dimes a man keeps promises this really is.ev money, per se. what it is about with cbo is an historic pattern of getting their forecasts wrong, if you go back to the 2017 cut that president orchestrated cbo at the time forecasted as usually low rate of great static scoring put it on path we know underestimated the growth rate about a percentage point, that is trillions of dollars, there there they go again i unjust can't license plate themselves at least now the tariff revenue is in there gets surplus the growth rate we are not going t

so what is the issue then with cbo? if they're using methods congress tells them they have to use, are those methods wrong? >> the baseline that they have to go against is does require what i just articulate. however, cbo is not precluded by putting out the most accurate analysis they want to. so they can put out a score and tell the world, look, this is the parameters for which we have to judge. but they also and have can put out alternative analysis that says, look, this is this is current policy baseline. this is what the bill will do as a result of that. they don't have to be weighted to ask to be able to do that kind of analysis. and when we look at the fact that they are often just they can't see the forest for the trees. and i'll just give you an example. just last year, they said that the biden border security bill was going to reduce the deficit. i mean, no one, when you think about what's happening over the course of the last few days or just in general over the last year, several years with the biden border c

. >> you said economic growth -- cbo accounts are economic growth.r the next decade. >> cbo doesn't account for economic growth. they had a 1.8 -- of spike and then down which we have treasure disagree with. [inaudible] >> report says -- [inaudible question] does administration feel -- [inaudible] >> what we feel is we have to get the short term taken care of and then we'll take care of the long-term. you can't do the short-term mess we were left, and before we get to the long-term. and i will point out that it was the biden administration rule that brought the social security problem forward a year. >> euboea for saturday night talking individually to some of these members of some of these amendments come together to try to get them on board if they have reservation? >> look, we are at treasury, , e administration here for the members. president trump's leadership on this has been fantastic. chairman smith in the house started working on this bill a year ago. senator thune has been very ambitious. so my sense is it won't come to that. [inaudible que

cbo scored that current policy baseline. it said that our bill generates a $506 billion deficit reduction. the ranking member for the budget committee asked them to give it a new score based on a different baseline, the current law baseline, which says that we have to say that if we don't raise people's taxes that we're causing a deficit. they said they would. they always do. they give the scores that different members of the congress ask them to give. and they gave that score and said, well, if you raise taxes by $4 trillion, then you will have a $4 trillion increase in tax revenue. that's what the whole debate is about, folks. you can complain and use different words and deficits and all that stuff. there is a cbo score on the baseline adopted by this congress on this resolution that that ises the score at $506 billion or $507 billion of deficit reduction. the presiding officer: the question is, shall the decision of the chair stand as the judgment of the senate. the yeas and nays were previously ordered. the clerk will ca

mike johnson was doing some sunday shows, lutnick and bessent, the cmo cbo -- only one one -- the ceoaccurate, rating trump bill, but because -- what? >> dana: jessica, let's be honest. i worked in capitol hill since 1996. anyone who is president since then, they hate the cbo, and biden -- >> jessica: but it's -- but the point is it's accurate. and they are saying that's a lie. >> dana: i actually don't think it is correct to say it is accurate. i think it is complicated and complex and difficult and you could argue it in all of these different ways, get different people to use different numbers, but the biden people hated cbo, and now the trump people hate cbo. >> jessica: but we can all agree that this is going to add to the deficit. >> jesse: no. >> greg: cbo doesn't agree with that -- >> jessica: yes, it does, 2.4 trillion. >> greg: 1.7 trillion in mandatory spending. may be because you didn't factor in the tax cuts but i don't know. >> katie: when you add in the revenue from the tariffs -- >> jessica: the tariffs -- >> katie: what they have been scoring, you can say is not accura

so the final cbo scoring cameks out today.n to the deficit, 3.7 trillion in tax cuts, 16 million all in total between medicaid cuts and obamacare,medi credit tax cuts going off their health insurance. that's what matters, and steve bannon, a huge supporter of president trump, feels thehu same as elon musk, says we arege going to have to raise taxess we and the republicans have a new talking point.ican mike johnson was doing someta sunday shows, lutnick anlkd c besson, thmoe cbo, it's run by a bush appointee who's only donated wants to a candidate, a republican in 2014. the cbo was fine in 2018 and 2019, 99.5% accurate, rating99.5 trump's bill, but because -- what? >> dana: jessica, let's be honest. i worked on capitol hill since 1996.hi anyone who is president sinclle. then, they hate the cbo, and biden -- >> jessica: but it's -- but the point is it's accurate. and they are saying that's a lie.cura >> dana: i actually don't thinkn it's correct to say it's accurate. i think it's complicated and complex and difficult and you cou

between musk's vocal opposition and these new numbers from the cbo? >> well. >> certainly for president trump, he believes he can exert very direct pressure on republican lawmakers to get this done because he has demonstrated a record of being very influential when he exerts that pressure. now, it's not that easy. and certainly the musk comments have shined a light on areas of the bill that some senators had already been talking about. and certainly the electric vehicle credit is something that we had expected could be a part of senate discussions to put their own imprint on this legislation because they have broader, not only benefits to those who buy those vehicles, but for the innovation in that sector, which could be something that senators would respond to on the deficit questions. what we're hearing from the white house, increasingly, is that they just don't believe the congressional budget office. in fact, white house is saying that they looked at the list of employees who work there and believe that they have a record of donating to democratic

. >> cbo estimate an co would increase deficit that amount. done by numbers by cbo exceeding think about resolution level. reporter: house press secretary argues that cbo misses growth and revenue from tariffs that was up 270% in may alone from pay of last year, the tariffs main reason they backed off digital service tax to get u.s. back to negotiating table, carol cab. >> a mistake for canada to vow to implement that tax this would have hurt our tech companies here. president made his position clear to the prime minister and prime minister called president last night, to let the president know he would be dropping that tax, that is a big victory for our tech companies and our american workers here. reporter: commerce secretary had a meeting today confirmed by press secretary, says there are 10 deals that are very close to the finish line, and we're told we will hear about india soon, we'll see what happens. david: all right. thank you edward lawrence. >> bring in tommy tuberville, alabama senator and gubernatorial candidate for that great sta

the cbo, saying their estimates are.g and that they. >> don't agree with them. >> whatever the case. >> is, this. >> is the number that. >> that is public. >> this is the number from the official nonpartisan. budget keeper scorekeeper. >> of. capitol hill of congress. now. >> the later today. >> most likely and maybe not. >> later today, but at some point in the future, we will. >> see numbers on. >> those who. >> will the number of people. >> that will. >> go uninsured. >> in this package. >> there are. cuts to. >> medicaid. there, cuts. >> to all. >> sorts. >> of health. >> care elements. >> in the federal government. so that's going to be another bad. >> number. >> for house republicans. >> but listen. >> there is. i keep thinking back to this. >> there's a fog. >> of war. >> element to. >> this, to how republicans. >> feel right now. >> they are. >> trying to get this bill into law. >> they are. trying to ignore. >> all of the outside. >> noise. >> good, bad and different. >> and just trying to charge toward that jul

they'll say, no, no, no, cbo is wrong when it comes to those growth projection. has heard this criticism, and they've come out with another score, but they really didn't change their tube about the growth projections in the bill. i wanted to get your reaction to that. >> and, again, i think they're wrong. i agree with the white house here. they were $1.5 trillion on the last tax cuts and jobs act that was passed. look what that did for not only economic growth, but protecting the american people from a huge tax increase. must i remind everybody that the democrats and the cbo are aligned with the democrats in congress, and every single one of those democrats voted basically in the house to raise americans' taxes. and that is what is at stake. i think we are going to see incredible economic growth. i hope interest rates also come down. that'll help be a part of this conversation as well, but you're already seeing billions of dollars in new investment. and we can walk and chew gum at the same time. congress just passed a rescissions a package last week, so look at t

bessent: it is the cbo score. if you want to you cbo, lets you cbo. debt and they are saying 2.8 in tariff income. even in washington math that is plus 400 billion. rep. beyer: that mrs. 500 billion in new interest on the -- misses $500 billion in new interest on the debt. your counterpart secretary lutnick recently declared on television that trump's tariffs are not going away, even with your deal on china that you announced. secretary lutnick was asked by senator kennedy if you would accept a deal that moved to trade barriers for places like vietnam. he made an answer that was all over the place and difficult to understand. we are less than a month from liberation day part 2. very few of the trade deals have been announced. i think most people in congress and the round the world would like to know what is going on. should america be preparing for liberation day 2.0? what should we plan for july 9 and july 2? sec. bessent: as i have repeatedly said, there are 18 important trading partners. we are working towards deals on those. it's highly likely tho

yes sir, so what what we've seen is we keep hearing from the cbo that there's going to uh be a large deficit from the bill which we disagree with, but using the cbo scoring uh, they came out and scored the tariff revenue, we think it'll be the minimum of 2.8 trillion over the 10-year window, which actually puts the bill in surplus if you include the tariff revenue, which they won't do, it gives you a tremendous surplus, but we're not allowed to use that, for some reason they say... scoring, nobody knows what scoring means, maybe a couple of people, but nobody, somebody sits in the background, they say, well we're not going to allow that, they're not allowing other things that we have that are tremendously profitable for our country, but if you saw the other day cnbc, they came out with numbers and the people on the show, very good people, i've watched them for a long time, they couldn't believe the numbers, how good they are, the numbers were incredible, and that was personal income, and also very low inflation, we have very low inflation. we down to 2% now, and maybe even lower than

which is run by democrats said -- i'd like you to discuss it at $2.8 trillion with cbo. a groupp of people that are democrats are very to us. they just came out with a mom on numbers. do you want to mention that. >> yeah sir. but we have seen is we keep hearing from the cbo that will be a deficit from the bill we disagree with that using cbo scoring they come out and scored the tariff revenue which would be the minimum of $2.8 trillion over the 10 year window which puts us in surplus if you include then tariff revenue whh they won't do. >> it's a tremendous surplus but for some reason they say scoring in nobody knows the scoring means. maybe a couple of people. they say we are going to allow that. they aren't allowing other things we have. if you saw the other day cnbc came out with numbers in the people on the show are very good people. i've known them for a long time and they couldn't believe the numbers. personal income and very low inflation. very low inflation. we are down to 2% now and maybe even lower than that. when i took it over with the. we had the worst infla

. >> but also cbo. speaking of money to taxpayers, says that this bill could increase it by like trillions. i mean, you have a number that's talking about if taxpayer money is an issue, is that not a concern of yours? >> well, the interesting thing about the cbo survey, their forecast is that they don't take into account one, the tariff revenue, which is going to be about $2 trillion over the next ten years. number two, they don't take. >> the tariff revenue stands. right. but if but. >> there's a lot of ifs here. but the second one is if you secure the border and save taxpayers $150 billion a year, trump has done that 99% reduction in border crossings since president biden was thrown out of office. what ends up happening, laura, is you save the taxpayer money in the process. the cbo has not put that in their mind model. and then finally, they assume that the trump tax cuts, which everybody in d.c., republican and democrat would tell you, we're going to continue. they assumed they would expire. and ther

guest: they criticize the cbo in going to use a bunch of cbo numbers to make their other points in theill-like review -- removing provisions and how much they costs. scorekeepers don't have a crystal ball. they will sometimes get things wrong. it's true, the joint committee on taxation, not the cbo, the joint committee on taxation under estimated the costs of the inflation production act. thankfully, i think, there is now an effort to trip kind of correct that. we can disagree with the specifics of the policy as they look into it, but there are very high quality scorekeepers that do better than just about anyone else. when it comes to the last round of tax cuts, they were almost exactly on the mark. host: what they argue for in terms of changes to the build in "the wall street journal," taking away the no tax on tips or overtime or things like car loan interest. on the no tax on tips, where are you on that? host: they are exactly right -- guest: they are exactly right. tax reform should work to make income simpler, treating similar income or simply, promoting economic growth with perma