they also use the cra to check out banks. they would go to banks that were searching a merger. they would say if you set this program and link to these people, and if you make grants to our organization every year, we won't take a big stink about this. we won't accuse you of being racist. but if you don't give us the grant, if you don't make these loans, we are going to declare that you are racist bank and we're going to oppose you getting federal approval for this merger on the grounds that you are going to be the credit needs of your community. >> so acorn was involved in the shake down to banks. one thing that you talk about was from the 1930s and the fact that he had encourage people to go to the banks because that's where the money is. >> right. >> explained that. >> you have to -- >> you're saying that banks were not the problem? >> no, banks were not the problem. what you see really with this issue is a merging of two forces. you see sol lewinsky was a radical from chicago who had a very strong lasorda marxist view of things. and he argued in his book that really the wea