osama bin laden. >> i love osama bin laden. i love him, like i can't begin to tell you because i haven't seen that he's really done anything wrong. i love him more than i love myself. >> what they want is u.s. forces to be defeated. for a muslim holy land stretching from china to rome and yes, they yearn for the day israel will vanish. so you would like israel to be bombed? >> do you think that is a rational comeback. >> i'm asking you. >> i would like to israel wiped off the map. i would like to see the people guided to their original countries. >> they may seem crazy to you but you are not their target audience. the fbi has assigned agents to watch them, to monitor their website and perhaps more importantly, watch those who are viewing and listening. like a young new yorker who pled guilty in a plot to blow up the long island railroad. he met with kataab. >> i know he was a good muslim. >> maldenado arrested in texas for receiving military training with somali terrorists, mahana was arrested in boston. the revolution muslim p

-- osama bin laden was 8 years ago. he said it has been a few years. senate -- gates has been my boss in more organizations than i can remember. it has been eight years, mr. gates, since we have had any idea. has he been in iraq? i do not rule it out. al qaeda has been able to operate in iran on more than one occasion. we do not know what the government relationship was. i would suggest to you that if the iranians want to give us trouble in the world in the next few years, one of the simplest ways for them to do it is to just allow a higher degree of al qaeda operational activity in their territory. since we have no baseline as to what they allow, more of it coming would be hard to judge in its significance. if the relationship between al qaeda and ron, it is a black hole. -- between al qaeda and iran. >> have a question about the syndicate of terrorist organizations including the caliban. there was not a single afghan on the plans for 9/11, as far as i know. -- on the planes. omar sending out information and is allowin

the last time we had a solid piece of information about where osama bin laden was, was eight years ago. we don't have a clue where he is today. bob gates asked this question in meet the press this week and he said it's been a few years. i'm a big fan of bob gates. he's been my boss in more organizations than i can remember. but i think he was being a little misleading. it's been eight years, mr. gates, since we had any idea where he was. has he been in iran? i don't rule out that possibility. al qaeda has been able to operate operational activity in iran on more than one occasion. we don't know what the relationship between the government of iran and that operational activity was. i would suggest to you that if the iranians want to give us trouble in the world in the next few years, one of the simplest ways for them to do it is to just allow a higher degree of al qaeda operational activity on their territory. since we have virtually no baseline as to what they allow, more of it coming will be hard to judge is it important, is it insignificant? where is this all coming from? the relatio

rated with the "osama bin laden i know" look and was part of the special on the footsteps on osama bin laden. what do you make of the story? >> you have five american citizens going to pakistan, flying under the radar screen. the fbi had little idea of them before they turned up in pakistan. this is part of a new trend we are seeing. more radicalization in the united states over the last couple years. we have seen about 11 cases of terrorism in the last six months. and also seeing more americans going out and training with militant groups in pakistan over the last year. we is a seen about a dozen americans going there in the last year, which represents a surge in the number of americans getting the training that can make that dangerous terrorists potentially, larry. >> larry: petr the fact they were arrested in pakistan. what does that tell you? we don't have peter? sorry. what does that tell you? the fact they were arrested? >> it tells us there was a lot of collaboration. this is a success story in terms of the muslim community gives information to the nib and the fbi was able to col

saying that they at least supported osama bin laden's ideology. it's not -- it's certainly not a country where al qaeda is known to have a large grouping of people, a large affiliated terror group following it there that supported bin laden. but we do know al qaeda has extended its influence over the northern parts of africa in particular. but i think when you look at this particular case, you may be looking at somebody who's bought into the ideology of al qaeda and is perhaps more representative of the threat as it is today, rather than what it has been over the past few years. that is, individuals that pose a threat because they've brought into the ideology -- >> this is a big deal. this is a very big deal. for those viewers who have just joined us, you're looking on the left side of your screen at a delta aircraft. that is northwest flight 253. northwest and delta have merged. northwest flight 253 from amsterdam to detroit at detroit airport. it was a suspect identified on that plane who lit something that we earlier heard might have been fire

host: the search depose on for osama bin laden. should he ever bal caught or killed, how is that going to affect the level of terrorist activity guest: well, i think certain is the case that if he were killed or captured tomorrow, it wouldn't necessarily mean an increase in people trying to make a statement indicate just that. on the other hand, becky is clearly public enemy number one. it is hugely important for the united states sonner rather than later to find him, to -- the inability to find him hampers our efforts. every day that goes by is deemed to be a loss by the united states in this ongoing propaganda war. host: from 2003 to 2004 from homeland security he is current thirty director of the as pen institute's homeland security member in aspen. and the wartime contracting commission on iraq and afghanistan. back to the phones, desoto, kansas. diana on our republican line, thank you for waiting. caller: thank you. mr. ervin, you seemed quite surprise that had a person who was on a terror list was not automatically on a no-fl

osama bin laden is today a voice we hear but an invisible man. we have no idea where this man is, despite the biggest manhunt in history and a $50 million reward. he could be in the room next door as far as we know. last week, the bbc put out a report, pourly sourced, that he what was notable is how rarely we even get bad reports about where osama bin laden is. second thing i would suggest to you about al qaeda today is that, in afghanistan and pakistan, it is part of a much larger syndicate of terrorist organizations, within which, it is embedded. what do i mean by that? the afghan taliban, the pakistan taliban, they are one taliban in many ways -- a whole bunch of other groups whose names are often interchangeable but we know are the same basic characters, are a syndicate of terror. they are not a monolith. they do not have a single leader or a single agenda. but they cooperate with each other. individuals within these movements move back and forth between organizations. they do not respect the lanes that we try to impose on them. most of all,

his books include "the osama bin laden i know" and "holy war inc." michael ware and nic robertson, cnn's senior international correspondent. peter, give me your mini analysis of the speech tonight. >> well, you know, i think it did what it was supposed to. i thought it was a good speech in content. there's been a lot of focus on the pullout in 2011. there was a huge caveat which is the withdrawal is going to be conditions based. the transfer of authority to afghan police and army will be conditioned based. right now only one of the 34 provinces in afghanistan is actually under the complete control of the afghan military and police. that number could be two by 2011, it could be ten. who knows. i think the idea that the united states is going to start withdrawing in significant number this 2011, actually it wasn't even in had the speech, even though some people have fastened on that as a fact. there was a big conditionality that was in the speech. >> larry: michael ware, is it going to make a big difference? >> well, depends how they are used, larry. p

retaliation for 9/11, the taliban and osama bin laden attempted to use these western hostages as bargaining tools. kabul 24 revisits not only these westerners' horrific 105 days in captivity, but also the torture endured by their 16 muslim co-workers who were accused by the taliban of converting to christianity. today we're going to hear from authors henry o -- known as chip -- arnold and ben pearson about their recently-published book. it has just come out the end of last month, which presides a full-length documentary film scheduled to be released in november. chip? yes. >> [inaudible] >> good idea. okay, thank you. they're working on it. can you hear me though? i can try to talk a little louder. okay. chip arnold is an award-winning writer and producer. his credits include the film, the second chance, and the first authorized film documentary of the evangelist, billy graham, titled god's ambassador. he co-wrote and produced the film kabul 24 as well as co-authored the book you're hearing about today. ben pearson, over here, is an acclaimed film maker and photographer with numerous awards

to that extent they have received the kind eye of osama bin laden. structural links are more difficult to know about. there are certainly some foreign terrorists who have taken sanctuary there. they are now doing jihadi videos like much as we've seen in pakistan and afghanistsan and did at one point in iraq, where they were, where people were being beheaded. there are now jihadi suicide bombers. this was unknown before 2007. they are now adopting the tactics that we've seen with the most virulent form of extreme islam elsewhere, al qaeda. if they're not al qaeda they certainly want to be. what you have is a society where you have two generations of youth who are uenmployed, largely untaught in many cases and who, in the collapse of the traditional structure of the somali state now seem to be dangerously susceptible to the kind of siren call of the idea of a global jihad. >> reporter: so somalia as a somalia as a potential haven for al qaeda. >> somalia is very much a potential haven. to what degree it is at the moment is still an open question. what

what was notable is how were we even get bad reports about where osama bin laden is. second thing i would suggest to you about al qaeda today is that in afghanistan and pakistan, it is part of a much larger syndicate of terrorist organizations, within which, it is embedded. xdwhat do i mean by that? the afghan taliban, a pakistan taliban, they are one tell them in many ways -- a whole bunch of other groups whose names are often interchangeable but we know are the same basic characters, are a syndicate of power -- of terror. they are not a monolith. they do not have a single leader or a single agenda. but they cooperate with each other. individuals within these movements move back and forth between organizations. they do not respect the lanes that we try to impose on them. most of all, none of them in eight years have been willing to turn on al qaeda and give up its core leadership. what is remarkable when you look at is that more than any other individual, mullah omar that the syndicate pledges its allegiance to. and he claims to be commander of the faithful. a title,

were osama bin laden to come in there, it to become a huge priority. if he is not inside, it is outside of my mandate. i do believe it is very important. >> can you speak to that at all? the exact same perspective. >> the last thing i like to discuss with the is pakistan. the president recently said that we cannot tolerate a safe haven for terrorists. this may be where osama bin laden is. this location is known. his intentions are clear. the times reported that the administration has said in private that the leaders will not allow us to follow the insurgents and fight them and we will continue to do so even without that information. what kind of cooperation are you getting from pakistan? do you believe that the air going to be willing and the partners of the fight this cross border battle? >> my current partnerships is very good. it is getting better all the time. they now face a very significant internal insurgency. i believe that as the focus on that, -- neither can achieve security and stability without success from the other side of the border. i t

one of osama bin laden's objectives is to give us in the united states a national nervous breakdown. we musn't let him do this by overreacting to these events however ugly and nasty they are. >> larry: harry, how do you get petn? >> it is a military explosive. it has to be derived through a group -- >> larry: al qaeda could get it? >> al qaeda. it is clearly a strong indicator this guy had support from an al qaeda type franchise or al qaeda. >> larry: how does he get through security? >> well, look at the path that this guy took. he first got aboard a klm aircraft in lagos, nigeria. then he went to amsterdam. i understand he was held in a sanitized area, in other words an area that would segregate him from the general population of the airport because he is transiting to another transatlantic flight. no screening. he is being held in this sanitized area. now from there to detroit. so what we're talking about is a possibility now, i'm saying a possibility, that the only screening this guy had was lagos, nigeria. give me a break, okay. if he did, in fact, get screened in -- >> larry: n

it's ironic eight years, osama bin laden is a voice we hear, but virtually invisible man. we have no idea where this man is, that despite the biggest manhunt in history and a $50 million reward. he could be in the room next door as far as we know. last week, the bbc put out a report poorly sourced that he was in afghanistan in february. what was notable about that report was not how good the report was, but how rare we evei get bad reportsñr about where osama bin laden is. second thing i would suggest to you about al qaeda today is that in afghanistan and pakistan, it is part of a much larger syndicate of terrorist organizations within which it is embedded. why what do i mean by that? the afghan taliban and the pakistan taliban and they are really one taliban in many ways, a whole bunch of other groups whose names change but who we know are the same basic characters are a syndicate of terror. they don't have a single leader. they don't have a single agenda, but they cooperate with each other. individuals within these movements move back and forth within organizations. the

-- osama bin laden was 8 years ago. he said it has been a few years. senate -- gates has been my boss in more organizations than i can remember. it has been eight years, mr. gates, since we have had any idea. has he been in iraq? i do not rule it out. al qaeda has been able to operate in iran on more than one occasion. we do not know what the government relationship was. i would suggest to you that if the iranians want to give us trouble in the world in the next few years, one of the simplest ways for them to do it is to just allow a higher degree of al qaeda operational activity in their territory. since we have no baseline as to what they allow, more of it coming would be hard to judge in its significance. if the relationship between al qaeda and ron, it is a black hole. -- between al qaeda and iran. >> have a question about the syndicate of terrorist organizations including the caliban. there was not a single afghan on the plans for 9/11, as far as i know. -- on the planes. omar sending out information and is allowin

he said he would go after osama bin laden and that he would defeat al qaeda and osama bin laden and occasionally added the taliban to it. now al qaeda has been pulled out of the dialogue with afghanistan. osama bin laden's name has only been uttered four times by the president of the united states in the year and a month and three days since he has been elected president. and those four times, three of them were in response to direct questions asked by the press and the other time he brought it into another discussion but at no time has the president said, since he was elected in a year, month, three days, will i go get osama bin laden. i will defeat bin laden and al qaeda in afghanistan. that stopped. that rhetoric stopped abruptly on the third of november, 2008, was the last time president obama spoke of taking out osama bin laden. that actually makes it a year, a month, and four days. to be precise, since the president has said he's going to take out osama bin laden. now here we are with a minimum number of troops minus about 25% of the minimum number to go in and stand up to security forces

will we ever find osama bin laden and bring him to justice? >> if he was in afghanistan by now, we would have certainly found him. our armies are in 41 countries. if he were in afghanistan, he board have been found. i do not think he is in a cave. he needs dialysis and connectivity with the rest of the network of al qaeda. he is most probably in a major metropolitan center and hiding or living in an varmint them living in a cave. he is not in afghanistan. there is nothing that will prevent any one of bust to find him if he is in afghanistan. >> its c and pakistan? >> that is a very good guess. -- is he in pakistan? >> thank you very much. i thought that was interesting. there is a reasonable argument that success depends much more on many more packages than just the 30,000 troops. it depends on building governance and on pakistan. all of those may be more important than the 30,000 troops. i would like to ask you about the buildup of the army. the buildup of the army. the u.s. has spent $40 billion people you talk about -- the national army bee

give us osama bin laden. >> we've got time for two more questions. >> thank you. i'm john with the american conservative magazine. not all the opposition to the war is leftist democrats. we were against the iraq war and also. what about a defensive strategy? it's been promoted as william lind on fourth generation warfare. some of our writers, that america as a democracy we are incapable of really fighting against the guerilla's as we have been losing this consistently. the off shore balancing ideas, we should really be moving to a defensive strategy, which we could do well, et cetera. i again repeat, as a democracy, we can't with all the conflicting pressures here, have a coherent policy. for example, the settlements on the west bank. we can't stop them. >> the short answer to your question is we tried a defensive policy between 1998 when al qaeda declared war on us, and september 11, 2001. and we ended up with september 11, 2001. i sat in the situation room in the white house when we lobbed cruise missiles at what we thought was osama bin laden's next known point

will we ever find osama bin laden and bring him to justice? >> if he was in afghanistan by now, we would have certainly found him. our armies are in 41 countries. if he were in afghanistan, he board have been found. i do not think he is in a cave. he needs dialysis and connectivity with the rest of the network of al qaeda. he is most probably in a major metropolitan center and hiding or living in an varmint them living in a cave. he is not in afghanistan. there is nothing that will prevent any one of bust to find him if he is in afghanistan. >> its c and pakistan? >> that is a very good guess. -- is he in pakistan? >> thank you very much. i thought that was interesting. there is a reasonable argument that success depends much more on many more packages than just the 30,000 troops. it depends on building governance and on pakistan. all of those may be more important than the 30,000 troops. i would like to ask you about the buildup of the army. the u.s. has spent $40 billion so far. half of that has gone to security, about $19 billion to develop

give us osama bin laden. >> not all the opposition to the war is left with democrats. we work against the iraq war also. what about a defensive strategy? america as a democracy, we are incapable of really fighting against the guerrillas, as we have been losing consistently. . . that's a very difficult strategy to carry out, because we have to be lucky in foiling every single plot that they come up with. they only have to be lucky once or twice to have devastating effects on us. we may get there. let me put a marker down here. i said in 18 months we will know. if it's not working, we need to be very honest and rigorous with ourselves and say it's not working. the patient is dead. and then we may have to go to that strategy. but i'd like to try to find out whether there is a better alternative to the one you're suggesting. >> i think we're good. there we go. >> patrick he had goneton from new jersey. appreciate your remarks. i'm a former intelligence officer like you and former army officer. probably a lot of those types, quite frankly, in this room. so here's the deal -

. >> what effect will our effort on osama bin laden have there? >> i believe he is an iconic figure at this time whose survival emboldens al qaeda as a franchisee organization across the world. it would not defeat al qaeda to have him captured or killed, but i do not think we can finally defeat them until he is captured or killed. >> senator, i would only add to that but it does remain important to the people of the world that one day he is either captured or killed or brought to justice, and his responsibility for the death of americans on september 11, 2001. >> i thank you. you have our support and parts and purrs with you and we look forward to making your life miserable by coming to visit you. >> i promise to come with senator mccain and to the extent i can -- >> on wednesday, david petraeus said that the situation in afghanistan is likely to get harder before it gets easier. the general testified before the senate foreign relations committee about president obama's strategy, including deploying an additional 30,000 troops. this is to 0.5 hour

osama bin laden and down . what is pakistan prepared to do? i think the challenge for this president, and republicans should be happy with this plan. particulates the strategy mt timeline. i think the secretary of defense and state were pretty clear yesterday in saying there is a time horizon, went up but the first of the year that will go on for as much as five years. that is the goal of the complete handoff to karzai in five years, assuming everything works. we will see what the conditions are for a president down the line to say we are not winning, but it is time to come home. >> it may seem like a sideshow in the city, but it is a live issue for british politics as well prepared gear have been disturbing link large numbers. how has this decision by pres ident obama been? >> gordon brown is talking about a modest increase of british troops, 500 up suit and 10,000. he will get down to it next year, an election year and we see a certain amount of calculation. i think the reality of the situation both, is important but all the mainstream polit

-- osama bin laden was 8 years ago. he said it has been a few years. senate -- gates has been my boss in more organizations than i can remember. it has been eight years, mr. gates, since we have had any idea. has he been in iraq? i do not rule it out. al qaeda has been able to operate in iran on more than one occasion. we do not know what the government relationship was. i would suggest to you that if the iranians want to give us trouble in the world in the next few years, one of the simplest ways for them to do it is to just allow a higher degree of al qaeda operational activity in their territory. since we have no baseline as to what they allow, more of it coming would be hard to judge in its significance. if the relationship between al qaeda and ron, it is a black hole. -- between al qaeda and iran. >> have a question about the syndicate of terrorist organizations including the caliban. there was not a single afghan on the plans for 9/11, as far as i know. -- on the planes. omar sending out information and is allowin

host: the search depose on for osama bin laden. should he ever bal caught or killed, how is that going to affect the level of terrorist activity guest: well, i think certain is the case that if he were killed or captured tomorrow, it wouldn't necessarily mean an increase in people trying to make a statement indicate just that. on the other hand, becky is clearly public enemy number one. it is hugely important for the united states sonner rather than later to find him, to -- the inability to find him hampers our efforts. every day that goes by is deemed to be a loss by the united states in this ongoing propaganda war. host: from 2003 to 2004 from homeland security he is current thirty director of the as pen institute's homeland security member in aspen. and the wartime contracting commission on iraq and afghanistan. back to the phones, desoto, kansas. diana on our republican line, thank you for waiting. caller: thank you. mr. ervin, you seemed quite surprise that had a person who was on a terror list was not automatically on a no-fl

. >> osama bin laden-style views are still glorified. why? >> martyrdom was never meant to go guess what, i am going to die and go to heaven. trying to live through it and achieve victory is life. if, in the process, you die unwillingly, you are a mortar. that is the difference between martyrdom and suicide. suicide means i am fed up with it. i do not care about this life anymore. they are so bad, i am going to blow myself up on them and kill them and myself mortem is i stand up for justice -- myself. martyrdom is i stand up for justice. this is not only in a fighting situation. in life. a great mortar is one who goes to an impressive ruler and says, you are an oppressor. he was not going to die. he was going to advise the ruler not to be an oppressor. if, in the process, he dies, god bless them. that is different from let me wrap the things around my belt and let me go because tomorrow i will be in heaven. [applause] we have to be aware of these differences and we have a terrible crisis of definitions. i am blaming probably the intelligentsi

and that osama bin laden should be handed over to an international court. that was not the position of most mainstream security scholars. they did not think it could possibly work. they never thought this would work. they thought we would have to go to troops. they thought it would take at least half a million troops to do with afghanistan. when it worked, to their credit, the scholars said, "holy moly, they deserve credit for a brilliant strategy." it is important to remember how unexpected the fall was and how much it seemed to be a smashing success. there was skepticism it would work but widespread applause when it did seem to work. >> i remember going to in why you -- nyu for a lecture series. i did not know your view on the afghanistan war. all i knew was that i cannot imagine an american president not going after the taliban. he would be thrown out of the office the next chance the american people got. that was greeted with a lot of hostility. it still seems to me that the particular invasion of afghanistan was pre-determined by domestic politics if n

al qaeda's leaders are there, most likely including osama bin laden. home-grown militants like lashkar itaeba are there and so are others directing the insurgency in afghanistan. pakistan is a sovereign nation and obviously we need to respect that, but we must convince its government to tackle all of the extremist groups threatening regional and international security. for pakistan's sake as well as the regions and all of those who have a stake in the, in this effort. the pakistani military should be congratulated and it has demonstrated firm resolve with its offensive against the pakistan and division of the northwestern province in south waziristan and its commanders deserve great credit. they have sacrificed. now we're looking for them to take on the afghan network, and al qaeda strongholds. this will be crucial to our success in afghanistan. today we are prepared to provide pakistan with additional equipment, and other military many pakistan is believed that america will once again abandon the region as we did after the fall of the soviet union. on

-- osama bin laden was 8 years ago. he said it has been a few years. senate -- gates has been my boss in more organizations than i can remember. it has been eight years, mr. gates, since we have had any idea. has he been in iraq? i do not rule it out. al qaeda has been able to operate in iran on more than one occasion. we do not know what the government relationship was. i would suggest to you that if the iranians want to give us trouble in the world in the next few years, one of the simplest ways for them to do it is to just allow a higher degree of al qaeda operational activity in their territory. since we have no baseline as to what they allow, more of it coming would be hard to judge in its significance. if the relationship between al qaeda and ron, it is a black hole. -- between al qaeda and iran. >> have a question about the syndicate of terrorist organizations including the caliban. there was not a single afghan on the plans for 9/11, as far as i know. -- on the planes. omar sending out information and is allowin

osama bin laden says he has a plan for america. he wants to bog us down in the middle east in a no-win war and bankrupt the country and demoralize us. it seems like we have fallen sbau his trap. why is it off base? today when a gentleman indicated that he did it because of the bombing, you know what the administration said? they dismissed it. it can't possibly be so. if you dismiss motivations for why they hate us, we can never resolve it. you have to ask the question, why do they hate, and they usually come up with a reason. we're foolish not to take that into kurgs. wi will. >> larry: ben. >> i never heard anything like that my whole life. what he's saying is we're doing something wrong by defending ourselves. we have to defend them. they're our friends. we can't let al qaeda run wild. that's not sufficient. >> why? >> why should we stop it? they're terrorists and murderers. >> why are they terrorists? larry. why are they terrorist science. >> because they're psychos. >> they're terrorists because we're occupiers. >> no we're not

osama bin laden said he has a plan for america. first he wants to bog us down in the middle east in a no-win war. he wants to bankrupt this country, demoralize us, as well as have us do things that motivate people to join his radical movement. it seems we've fallen into his trap. why is it off base? today when the gentleman indicated that he did it because of the bombing. you know what the administration said? they dismissed it. it can't possibly be so. if you dismiss motivations for why they hate us, we can never resolve this. floos hate on both sides. you have to ask why do they hate and they usually come up with a reason. and we're foolish not to take that into consideration. >> larry: ben? >> well, that's -- i never heard anything quite like that in my whole life. what he's saying basically is we are doing something wrong by defending ourselves. look, if these terrorists are trying to kill the government of yemen, we've got to help defend them. they're our friends. we can't just let al qaeda run wild. if we try to stop them --

"new york times's" best-selling author of "the osama bin laden i know" and "holy war inc.." and a fellow at nyu center for law and security. he was part of the cnn special "in the footsteps of bin laden." what do you make of this story? >> you have five american citizens going off to pakistan, flying very much under the radar screen. the fbi had little idea of them before they turned up in pakistan. this is part of a new trend we are seeing. a worrying new trend. we're seeing more radicalization in the united states unfortunately over the last couple of years. we have seen about 11 cases of terrorism in the last six months. we're also seeing more americans going off and training with militant groups in pakistan over the last year. we have seen about a dozen americans going there in the past year, which represents a surge in the number of americans getting the sort of training that can make them into very dangerous terrorists potentially, larry. >> larry: peter, the fact they were arrested in pakistan. what does that tell you? we don't have peter? i'm sorry. what does it tell

and only after the taliban refused to turn over osama bin laden we sent our troops into afghanistan. within a matter of months, al qaeda was scattered and many of its operatives were killed. the taliban was driven from power and pushed back on its heels. a place that had known decades of fear now have reason to hope. at a conference convened by the u.n., a provisional government was established under president hamid karzai and an international security assistance force was established to help bring lasting peace to a war-torn country. then in early 2003, the decision was made to wait a second war in iraq. the wrenching debate over the iraq war is well known and need not be repeated here. it is enough to say that for the next six years, the iraq war true the dominant share of our troops, our resources, our diplomacy and international attention and that the decision to go into iraq crossed central substantial risks between much of america and the rest of the world. today, after extraordinary costs, we are bringing in the iraq war to run it -- to a responsible and. will remove our comba

the area where people thought that osama bin laden was hiding out. he said, okay, i need to know more. he said he calls me when he needs someone to say yes. and doctor said would you think of going to pakistan? i said yes. now the question that we might ask is why did we not hear about the pakistan earthquake? the reason that i've heard from a lot of people is that there was something called donor fatigue, media fatigue, there has been a big tsunami that wiped out large parts. we all heard about the tsunami. not long after that, there was hurricane katrina. we all know the pit falls of what happens in that crisis. but to give you a sense of the response, $85 billion were spent in hurricane relief for katrina within the first three months. in the entire time from pakistan it was about $6 billion from the entire global community. went into foreign aid. doctor was a board member. he said would you go? i said yes. i asked ben and mike, and they said yes. off we decided to go. right before we were leaveing, a cartoonist decided to publish a cartoon. we al

then there are others that note that osama bin laden is still on the loose and how are they going to get him if there is not a large presence in afghanistan? others counter that point and say that he is probably not in afghanistan, he is likely in pakistan. host: cambridge, andrew. good morning. caller: i am calling to say that in minnesota rehouse the largest -- hello? we house of the largest headquarters of the national guard. we are very upset with this. we feel that our troops have been used and abused enough. we are starting groups that will pay for the impeachment of president barack obama. he ran on shutting down these wars and saying that we have to have an entire congress and senate to get laws passed to shut down these wars. he has that even bothered. host: how many people are in this group so far? guest: 5 -- caller: 5000. host: are they all minnesota residents? caller: yes. host: how do you get them to sign up belloc caller: going door-to-door. host: what area of the state are you in? caller: north of minneapolis. host: our next call comes from jesse. caller: thank you fo

bin laden and saddam hussein. it also drew on the 1999 chicago speech on policy intervention. when i heard that speech, i thought, it represents a tightening of the u.k.-u.s. alliance, and the degree of convergence on the danger that saddam hussein presented. compare and contrast with that subject of discussion yesterday, which came up, what you had in that speech at college station was a rather sophisticated argument which said, which was preemption, which said that saddam is too dangerous, his record is too bad. the potential threat he presents cannot be ignored. i think doing nothing is not an option, was the phrase in the speech, and so we have to do something about it. it was a good speech. Ñibut it's sort of lost influene as the months went by. >> thank you very much. i>> i would like to come back to crawford, butÑi before i doÑi si would like to go to the point that you made now. talking about the summer of 2000, when you said that the anywhere, and the timing of the administration at the time was not go

i was glad to hear you respond because i was going to ask you about osama bin laden if, in fact, his capture is part of the strategy and a benchmark in terms of the success or failure of this effort. but let me ask you, how does it increasingly expand for united states troops in afghanistan serve united states national security interests in combatting al qaeda if it feels anti-american sentiment among populations sympathetic to extremists, insurgents in afghanistan and pakistan, somalia, yemen and elsewhere in the world? let me also say many have said, and you probably disagree but i would like to hear your response to this, to complete this mission will require about 400,000 to $500,000, possibly 8 to 10 years, possibly a trillion dollars. do you believe that to be the case or not or why do we hear that so often now? finally let me just say i'm extremely concerned about the strain on our military members and their families. in the face of this expanded indeficit commitment in afghanistan, the physical, psychological and logistical strain in the u.s. armed forces under the stress of

there was a recent senate report which says shortly after the war in afghanistan began we had osama bin laden and we let him slip through our fingers. how much can we count on our intelligence now when we can't even capture one guy in eight years? >> let me start with the last one first. actually, there has been a considerable diminishment of al qaeda over the last couple of years in terms of their leadership. obviously not bin laden or zawahiri specifically, and what i've learned over the years and particularly in the last several years is individuals like him and it's not unique, quite frankly, to him in this area that they, one of their, their job one for them is survival and they do it really well. so it's not -- we have good intelligence and good agencies and it's improved a great deal and i rely on them tremendously. that said, it's still a big problem, and it doesn't mean we're not trying to find him and the rest of the leadership. with respect to -- i'm sorry, the first part of your question? >> getting bogged down in an endless war. what do we do? >> it's not going to happen. i

now, god knows if osama bin laden is even a life. talking about putting more people in separate there is n -- talking about putting people in afghanistan. we ought to have hillary clinton go to the capital of india and say to them, "look, you have been at war with pakistan for decades, you have nukes point at each other, you have over 100 dozen trips to the kashmir border -- 100,000 troops at the cashmore border could you pull your troops back, pakistan can move their troops over there and fight the taliban." host: tucson, arizona, dick on the line for republicans. caller: i admire you immensely because you are the first politician i've heard in a long time that made any sense. guest: that is because i broke a few coldspring when you are pricking a colt -- i broke a few colts. when you cannot get that call to pay attention, you tie its legs up and now it is standing on three legs and a little button push him around. -- a little guy can push him around. caller: before you had elected office, i do -- before you became governor, had you

al qaeda's leaders are there, most likely including osama bin laden. home-grown militants@@@@@@ commanders deserve great credit. they have sacrificed. now we're looking for them to take on the afghan network, and al qaeda strongholds. this will be crucial to our success in afghanistan. today we are prepared to provide pakistan with additional equipment, and other military assistance to help its people, and its government, to prevail against these extremists. but we have to know that we are building a new and a lasting partnership. many pakistanis believe that america will once again abandon the region as we did after the fall of the soviet union. one reason why pakistan has often hedged its bets and used the taliban for strategic depth. so let me be clear, and i think i speak for -- for the committee in this, and for the congress, because it would be a mistake for anyone in pakistan or elsewhere to believe that the president's words about drawing down troops from afghanistan somehow mean an end to our involvement or engagement in the region. it does no

then there are others that note that osama bin laden is still on the loose and how are they going to get him if there is not a large presence in afghanistan? others counter that point and say that he is probably not in afghanistan, he is likely in pakistan. host: cambridge, andrew. good morning. caller: i am calling to say that in minnesota rehouse the largest -- hello? we house of the largest headquarters of the national guard. we are very upset with this. we feel that our troops have been used and abused enough. we are starting groups that will pay for the impeachment of president barack obama. he ran on shutting down these wars and saying that we have to have an entire congress and senate to get laws passed to shut down these wars. he has that even bothered. host: how many people are in this group so far? guest: 5 -- caller: 5000. host: are they all minnesota residents? caller: yes. host: how do you get them to sign up belloc caller: going door-to-door. host: what area of the state are you in? caller: north of minneapolis. host: our next call comes from jesse. caller: thank you fo

osama bin laden's family, half yemeni. there are extremist ties there. when i was there, there was a lot of anti-american sentiment. it's clear to say that right now, american officials have had their eye on yemen for several months as they have found many militants trying to actually physically get to yemen so they can get this kind of training. >> you look at somebody from nigeria and yemen. the infrastructure in nigeria is more sophisticated than in yemen. is yemen a place that is a logical base for freelance terrorists who may have more tenuous ties to terrorist organizations to be getting their backing, financing and equipment? >> the thing is that they're involved in what you call uncovered spaces. basically, they're in a no-man's-land. they're in the wild west and can do what they want most times without inspection. the u.s. has been putting pressure on yemen officials for years without any success. what you have are people who have been able to set up any kind of camps that they wanted to, perhaps try and launder money for any kind of terrorist t

bin laden, the taliban, saddam hussein, the country of iraq, fidel castro and hugo chavez. how did any of these suits pan out? >> guest: well, we got a $1.8 million judgment against fidel castro. the other suits are continuing on. we got default judgments against many of these dictators. it certainly is difficult to collect because frequently the u.s. government comes in and protects the dictators, if you can believe that, and doesn't allow you to attach the assets. so it's a fight every step of the way. but the reason we did it and the reason i wrote a prior book called fatal neglect with my colleagues was because i wanted to show how the american government had sat there, basically, you know, twiddling their thumbs when all the information was publicly available that we were going to be hit again, this time with a bigger terrorist attack at the world trade center just down the street from where i am today. the american government was more preoccupied on itself and reestablishing the blush administration -- bush administration and pumping its chest than actually running wh

laden. -- osama bin laden. they don't ask any more where he is. host: does it matter? guest: i don't think so. guest: we know the enemy is. caller: i have a comment on president obama and his presidency so far. i feel he has done an excellent job for the problem he stepped into. this is not a criticism to president bush but i do feel that president obama is a peacemaker. i think that is something that we have fallen short of in this country as we argued throughout the world. i have been too many countries and, as americans, we used to be viewed quite highly in the world. our status has dropped. i am a word about our status but i think we have a man of his right now who has finally realized that we need to make peace in the world before we are allowed to make any kind of economic move ahead in our own country and move ahead educationally. the reason that i feel this -- it is leckie businessman or a supervisor in the business. their country hate them or their people hate them and will not support them. we get the

bin laden, the idea of al qaedaism or obamaism are going to last. these are enduring values on their side. host: barbara, your reaction to this story? guest: ç there are some initia reports suggesting that this guy was -- is half nigerian and half yes, ma'am a yemeni and may have gotten instruction from al qaeda leaders there including the sheik who was connected to the fort hood shootings. there is some suggestion he may have obtained materials in yemen although it looks like fortunately for all of of us it pretty primative. he succeeded in setting himself on fire but not the plane. and the passengers were very alert and they managed to put this thing out before it caused a catastrophe. i c what is disturbing, if you look at the background of the young man, he apparently came from a very privileged family. his father is banker in nigeria. he went to the best schools available. he was studying engineering in london. so you have to wonder what it is about these individuals and again you see this pattern. it often people who go çabroad go to the w

i agree with president obama that we need to get osama bin laden, but i'm also applied to agree with the last caller from louisiana who said that there is a lot of nonsense going on with 9/11 and the towers. i believe these are the same people who took up the kennedys. this individual in front of me -- my god -- host: thank you very much for the culprit i will just move on to our next -- thank you very much for the call. i will just move on to our next caller, from alabama. caller: i have to make a comment that i have a tendency to agree with ron paul. i am wondering what we are doing over there anyway. and what are we still having basis, army bases and navy bases and all of these military bases all over the world anyway? i mean, we need to close them all down and burned all our troops home -- bring all of our troops home and let these other countries to fend for themselves. they want a democracy, let them spend money and let them for their own democracies -- format their own democracies. guest: we are kind of darned if we do and if we don't. there is the ron paul school of lathought

the border area al qaeda, osama bin laden. no one wants to talk about osama bin laden. isn't this a major target? is and is a reason why continued warfare is necessary? if it is so we'd better talk about it directly to the pakistanis. and this being a public hearing the pakistanis are hearing that loud and clear. and they are guinn to have to respond. it is all well and good for us to say they've got to be stable for the long run about nuclear weapons and of course they need to be stable. the understand that. the offer and present us talking about the nuclear weapons quite apart from the thought we might protect them and the nuclear weapons in our own interest. what i would like to ask any of the three of you is progressing from the president's plan that's not the end of the story. whether this plan works or not depends upon maybe personal diplomacy and ability of leadership in pakistan to come to very different and significant conclusions from the past. in terms of their welfare. how rapidly can this occurred in 12 months come 18 months, two years? in other words, it b

there is no question that osama bin laden had used weapons of mass destruction before. he had used them against the kurds, his own people. he had the facilities to produce them. he had the scientists to produce them. he had the recipes to produce them. it's what we call just in time inventory system. he could have started up chemical or biological weapons of mass destruction had he not been taken out and turned them over to terrorist groups. well, iraq, we successfully took out saddam hussein. then we tried to prevail with a counterterrorism strategy. that's where you send in some of our elite forces and you take out the leaders of al qaeda, and then you go back to your base. well, the problem we found was that once we left al qaeda, we come back. insurgency is different than a regular war. they would come back in, and if anybody had cooperated with the american forces, they would kill them or torture them first and kill them or even torture their families in front of them and then kill them. so we knew things weren't going right, and president bush chose with secretary