it's not encouraging them to leave islam mind you but come from devout households and original islam apostasy leaving islamist punishable by death one thing that i want to i want to get what i need to respond to that was the same how do you respond to that is leaving islam punishable by death. a member of the with human. community we believe. we are muslims who believe in ms obama and with god as the promised messiah. our interpretation of the over one hundred twenty one year effort since the founding of our community has been too. slow for the freedom of religion and there is no such thing as punishment to. pamela what is there are there are some clerics there are some clerics who propose this as being teaching which according to their interpretation is a part of islam but this is not a part of islam god who created all of us how could he possibly send revolution which says go and kill some of my people. now that i am not you don't you think that basically. killing is condemned as a stand in the koran as other muslim leaders have said and that there is no penalty for leaving islam b

that it hates islam. that it is trying to destroy islam, and that what we say about really-- that al qaeda is really our enemy and not the great religion of islam, that's all smoke, that we're blowing smoke, that we're not telling the truth. i think this tend to reinforce a very poisonous narrative that is -- that has been used very successfully by terrorists . >> brown: ross, starting with you, is there a way forward that you see when you put together all of this? >> i mean, look, i don't honestly think that moving this project -- i don't know 30 blocks north in new york city and having it go forward-- is exactly the biggest blow to religious freedom in the history of the united states. projects like this, religious projects in particular, run into protests and zoning issues all the time, even when they aren't being built in and around a site where 3,000 americans lost their lives. i don't think when we look back on the history of u.s.-islamic relations over the last 25 years that having a mosque-- havin

a conflict such as it is between the west and islam we'll leave for a moment the definition of those terms seems to me that the conflicts that western countries have with islamic countries precisely are ideological and not civilizational conflicts we only have to look at which islamic countries are affected we're talking of course about iraq iran and afghanistan but there are many other islamic countries which are not affected by any conflict with the west the whole of north africa turkey saudi arabia indonesia the list goes on these conflicts such as they are are fairly straight forward to diplomatic political and to some extent ideological conflicts largely associated with the middle east and problem so i really don't think that the conflicts that have broken out bear out the civilizational paradigm it should be added by the way that the biggest conflict in world history since the second world war is one that nobody hardly ever mentions and that is the war in the congo which has claimed millions of lives it's a far higher death toll than any of the other conflicts that we usually t

than ideological differences is culture more powerful than ideology today with the rise of china the islamic world and emerging economies is the world prone to more clashes particularly with the west. and. to discuss of huntington's thesis stands today i'm joined by richard bullet in tel aviv an author and history professor at columbia university in washington we have serene hunter she's a visiting professor at the center for muslim christian understanding at georgetown university in paris we go to john laughlin of the institute of democracy in cooperation and another member of our crosstalk team on the hunger all right folks cross talk rules and in fact that means you can jump in anytime you want to comment on what i've said or other panel members have said all right i'd like to go to you first serene it's about fifteen little over fifteen little less than fifteen years since huntington's thesis came out how valid is it today because since the cold war we see a lot of conflicts and many people would say it's more or less culture not ideology not philosophy that is driving not all but many o

are you going to spread in islam a phobia. no i'm not trying to spread islamophobia i'm trying to spread openness and you know what we are open to pander and criticism and at and and freedom does appeal optional han is afraid with brad openness. i don't know what poster for and i think you doing draw a mohammad day is that the post that you're referring to someone else i mean it's not only iraq made it or not it's on your blog alice drug is not your personal blog . atlas shrugged dot com is my blog at least. i wish you could show me the post of what i'm going to show and i'm going to show a picture of you know i'll cover it up and i have it printed out right here to you that i understand i understand you're free to do that this is part of the problem we make fun of christianity all the time no i'm not afraid i don't think i made fun of buddhism all the time while i did so it's disrespectful it's a suspect it's not against the law but it's not binding on the right want to do any kind of research in a country where thirty eight

>> it is true about muslims globally but not historical islam and not true about contemporary islam. >> may i weigh in here a second? >> ifill: please. >> i think two things. in terms of all muslims being measured by the acts of terrorism that we've seen by people claiming to be muslims , it leaves a very wrong perception in people's minds. >> ifill: what do you mean by claiming? i'm sorry. what do you mean by claiming? >> because i think that some of the terror that we have seen has come from political goals, bad ties in muslim guard or cloaked in muslim guard. what you do is you try then to measure a whole religion by people who have violated the very basic precepts of that religion. for example , here the religion dimension does come in. this is one of the factors that's different. one of the people on the video clip that you showed said that islam is trying to take over the world. so is christianity trying to take over the world. and always has been. the difference is now in our nation that we had a pre-supposition that we would never have to be worried about the no establishment

versus the west so inadvertently and i think perhaps naively hunting to open the door to the islam a phobia that we have today which i think is incredibly destructive and it is rendered clash of civilizations a. highly not only misleading but a very destructive. reprehensible phrase and yet it has gained more and more usage among the man on the street and i think that one of the problems we have is comparing what the huntington thought he was doing with what is actually transpired you know john it's an interesting comment is it really after two thousand after nine eleven scuse me we saw the really the neo cons hijack this this concept they like the idea they like the idea of conflict of civilizations it's and them against us against the west is that or is that a that's a perversion of one hundred ten was trying to say. yes it is it is a perversion and it's a perversion both from the point of view of the neo cons but also from the point of view of islamic fundamentalists obviously the neo cons were themselves intensely ideology call and therefore they hijacked underpins leases which w

but of the eight i think he is somewhat appropriate fear of radical islam so political islam is radical islam these are the people that are extremists and so is the muslim community not doing enough to differentiate themselves from these people so that americans understand that not every muslim is a terrorist i first want to start then wish dr jasser more than kerry in fairness because the fair. from a dan where there's a lot about mubarak there's a lot of muslims who observe this day and you know we are a lot of us are part of this american society we came to this land because of the great things it offers in terms of tolerance and freedom of speech but now we feel that there is two hands now there is the one hand that markets freedom of speech freedom of religion your cool do whatever you want to do but then in the other hand when they try to do a morse in new york you know ok there are sensitive issues about the new york but that doesn't justify all the reactions and racism from politicians and what's not but the other thing is tennessee why is tennessee having a hard time they're bu

did it as opposed to a few radical fanatics in islamism as opposed to islam. that's the issue here, is that we have conflated those things and somehow made a war on terrorism a war on muslims. that's the problem. and america has to deal with that. >> larry: susan, was the president having it both ways when he he said on one day that they have a constitutional right based on religious freedom and the next day said he was talking about the right and not the wisdom? >> well, look, the president of the united states, to hear speaker pelosi, who you know, is a frechbd mine, talk about people who want to make this a political issue, clearly the president of the united states helped to make this a much larger political national issue than it was a week ago. the president was trying to have it both ways. and quite frankly, even today to be so -- with all due respect to the president, offhanded when we have, you know, so many days with people talking about the concerns of the survivors, of the victims of 9/11 and the question is do you have any, you know, regrets, and

who wish to portray the united states as anti-islam. this morning, we cut through the heated rhetoric and hear from one of the leading organizers behind the islam center. daisy khan, wife of the imam. and rabbi joy levitt. executive director of the jewish community center in manhattan, who is an adviser on the project. thank you for joining us. can i ask you first, daisy, what has been your reaction to the last several weeks of this? >> we've been dialoguing with people. we've started meeting 9/11 families. we've started moogt other groups that are showing concern. we've been bridge-builders since 9/11. that's what we do best. that's what we decided to do at this very moment. >> you said you started to meet them. did you not meet with families as you began to propose this islamic center? >> we had already been in touch with 9/11 families for peaceful tomorrows. we've been working with them since 9/11. and several other groups. since the concern was raised, we've now started meeting with other groups privately. >> rabbi joy levitt, how d

this is not about islam. islam did not cause this. why are we going to single them out and say you cannot have a mosque here? if a church was being built there, there would be no public conversation, if there were a synagogue, there would be no public conversation. since 9/11, we're going to prosecute a war on terror, that has become a proxy as a war on islam. there have been attempts to block the building of mosques all around the nation, not just in new york. >> larry: thank you all very .

the problem is not islam. the problem are the people will be used islam to commit violent acts against our country and people. what happened is that a cottage industry of those who had been axed to grind against the religion of islam against muslims and begins to arabs ended up providing most of the answers. they read books and get them published. they testified before congress and dominated airwaves on radio and television legal i will never forget in a hearing held in the senate on islam featuring three guys -- if you have the reverse in three muslims testifying on the nature of judaism, you would your whoops and yells -- but this was acceptable. the allies and bigotry that they told and spread was horrific. the people in the audience -- that is all the retold. that is all that they were prepared to hear. these guys have done enormous damage. surely after 9/11 we hold overall america we found that people still had a very favorable view over islam, but today when we polled, they do not. back then, three-quart

he wrote a book -- "what's right with islam is right with islam." do we know who this man is, who this community is? guest: we nkoknow him very werel. ll. he has been an active member of the inter-fatiith community. he is well known and within the american muslim community as a conciliatory figure. he is not only moderate, but also takes a fairly global view about islam and is very good at being able to criticize where criticism is merited. a lot has been made in recent days of a radio interview, and "the new york times" references this, where he was asked to criticize hamas, and his answer was seen as being equivocating. in that interview, he said he is a supporter of israel. that is a very, very hard position for a leader in the muslim community to take. but the fact he was able to do that, tells you a great deal about him. host: the problem is that a few muslims have been living peaceably in society for years and suddenly do something hostile. how do we know which are the good ones and which are terrorists in waiting? guest: that is a question fo

is lambs. -- islam. during world war ii, the japanese. and in 1992, a movie about american p.o.w.'s on trial in japan. you'll catch the drift. >> [uninlligible] >> what do you think of general mcarthur now. >> don't be too disappointed, you'll meet him again. >> you approve of his actions? >> wholeheartedly. it was realistic. >> i think s tooo. it is a wise man that knows where courage ends and stupidity begins. chris: some people don't think it improved by the 60's. the picture mad men captures that perfectly. and watch this from last monday's show. and it is an ad agency and they want to pursue big with honda. one partner is angry and holds out. >> this for the s. >> we don't want conditions, we want it to be unconditional. >> tell him what i said. >> roger, stop it. these men are our guests. >> do you think we'll fawn all over you, we'll beat you and beat you again and we don't want your japanese crap. so sign up. class mad men, that's all we talk about monday morning at the office. when we come back,

discuss the ban on islamic face covering garments i'm joined by mariam friends was soraya in london she's a franco british writer and oxford university islamic society media executive see him in paris and she's the president of the organization translated into english as neither whores nor submissives and in new york we cross to mona el to how we an award winning columnist and writer and another member of our cross talk team on the hunger all right crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want to marry him if i go to you first in london what is this issue can you give it to me is as a hierarchy or what's most important is this a religious issue is this a woman's issue is this a tolerance issue is this islam challenging the west in its own backyard because and looking at this is in a very complicated story because there are so many different points of view and we have parliaments now in western europe taking action to ban it which by the way very few women in western europe actually wear this type of garment go ahead. in fact as far as i'm concerned it's a symbolic

he wrote a book -- "what's right with islam is right with islam." do we know who this man is, who this community is? guest: we nkoknow him very werel. ll. he has been an active member of the inter-fatiith community. he is well known and within the american muslim community as a conciliatory figure. he is not only moderate, but also takes a fairly global view about islam and is very good at being able to criticize where criticism is merited. a lot has been made in recent days of a radio interview, and "the new york times" references this, where he was asked to criticize hamas, and his answer was seen as being equivocating. in that interview, he said he is a supporter of israel. that is a very, very hard position for a leader in the muslim community to take. but the fact he was able to do that, tells you a great deal about him. host: the problem is that a few muslims have been living peaceably in society for years and suddenly do something hostile. how do we know which are the good ones and which are terrorists in waiting? guest: that is a question fo

we don't want to be at war with islam. as national security implications just try to win an election. take this to the shameful territory. no, it is not. it's with the politicians who distorted this issue for political purposes. >> quickly, david, what's your answer? >> we don't let political majorities decide where churches can be built. it's true that there's a majority against this, but that's why we have private property and religious freedom guaranteed in the constitution. >> is this going to haunt obama in future elections? >> no, people are going to forget about it? >> no, i think it will haunt him because it revealed something about obama that the country does not like. >> what is that? >> obama taught constitutional law. he is a teacher. he's a teacher. his problem is he has an obligation to teach the country. >> he didn't teach newt gingrich. >> the horrors of 9/11 to think that this is going to diminish the constitutional freedom. >> the problem is he's a professor. >> a problem? now you are knocking the academi

the murderers of 9/11 did it in the name of islam. william crystal my colleague who was on my radio show yesterday has made a very, very constructive suggestion and a suggestion for president obama. president obama is in a unique position here because of some of the credibility he's achieved in the muslim community. it's an opportunity not for presidential power but for presidential leadership. to bring together both sides to this dispute and to try to work constructively to have people on the same page so that people like myself who question the location of this mosque, not its existence, not its buildings, not the building of the cordova house, but its location. the 92nd street y which was cited before has no controversy regarding the location of that building. it has not offended some of the people to whom any ground was particularly sacred. i think the families should be taken very seriously. i think the objections of new yorkers and the people who care desperately about 9/11 being remembered and being remembered accurately need t

the proposed islamic cultural center near ground zero. there's been a lot said about the man behind the project. imam feisal abdul rauf. he's been accused by some of being an apologist for islamic radicals. but considered by others to be an eloquent voice in coexistence of peace. sharyn alfonsi. >> reporter: he is the man at the center of the storm, i ma'am feisal abdul rauf. it is his dream project and now a public relations nightmare. but who is the imam? over the last few weeks, critics have leveled accusation he's a supporter of militant islam, that he's radical, even dangerous. is he? we combed over what's available right now of his speeches, books and interviews to see if we could find answers. accusation number one -- the imam is a radical muslim. he talked very candidly about his muslim beliefs to barbara walters in 2006 for her special on heaven. >> do only muslims go to heaven? >> the fundamental thing is you must accept god. you have to believe that there's a creator. the jews, the christian, whoever believes in god and does go

colorado, l.l.c. comments@captioncolorado.com >> couric: tonight, religion, politics, and plans for an islamic cultural center and mosque near ground zero. the senate's top democrat breaks with the president and says "don't build it." i'm katie couric. also tonight, death in the desert. the federal government opens an investigation into that off-road racing accident that killed eight spectators in the mohave desert. and steve hartman travels halfway around the world and finds the waltons? >> reporter: four generations not only under one roof but sharing one bank account. captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news world headquarters in new york, this is the "cbs evening news" with katie couric. >> couric: good evening, everyone. we're beginning tonight with that controversy over plans to build an islamic cultural center and mosque here in new york city two blocks from where the world trade center once stood until the 9/11 attacks by islamic terrorists. at first, the obama white house said the mosque was a local issue. if it was, it's not anymore, not since the president decided to wade into the

but islam is not like communism it has no appeal to nonmuslims that's .. why i never thought the analogy which he made to the cold war or something like that is the same. we worried about the lure of communism. >> rose: thought it would be the great battle to come in the same way that when the soviet union was still viable, u.s. soviet union was the great contest. >> exactly. and what we worried about was, you remember, in the 40s was italy going to go communist? is france going communist so we funded all of these journals. >> and every country in africa. >> precisely. here you have the problem of tensions between muslims and nonmuslims which is real, but islam has no appeal to nonmuslims, so, you know, it is inherently self-limiting. >> let me move to the obama presidency. has he been successful? in being able to communicate to the islamic world america from the care row speech and more? >> he has been very successful at resetting america's image in the world, but i don't think he has been able to transform it, there is a whole bunch of new polls that cam

brown insists he has no issues with islam on the whole. and where should they pray in new york city? >> there are hundreds of mosques in new york city. there are many, many blocks. right around here. >> reporter: can you hear the call to prayer? >> i don't know. i vice president gone in. >> reporter: there are strip clubs, a betting parlor and a planned shopping mall that will be underground at ground zero itself. well, you know, does the commercial activity, the shopping ball they're going to build here take away from the sacred nature. does the strip club? >> i think there is different, because of the intention. you know, imam ralph said he wants to leverage 9/11. it's meant to make a statement. and it's a statement that we don't want to be made here. >> reporter: brown is talking about the man behind the planned 13-story, $100 million core boba house. imman ralph. brown criticizes ralph for failing to disclose the source of his funding. and also questions ralph's background, saying, he refuses to denounce the palestinian group hamas. bu

the protesters who came out in new york yesterday on both sides of the debate surrounding the planned islamic center and mosque near the site of ground zero now some are calling this a distraction from the real issues that america is facing but are they under estimating the hate and the fear that are paralyzing the nation will speak to salons glenn greenwald then we'll look into how the u.s. treats its veterans vice president biden spoke to veterans about the recent withdrawal in iraq but failed to mention any of the health and mental problems or homelessness that face that face when they return home are we forgetting about the ones that we should be caring for the most i'll speak with iraq veteran out of coke ash and have these groups have gone wild juggalos are devoted fans to the group insane clown posse but some think of these fans take their love for the music a bit too far we'll speak to one of them to get their take on the juggalo mentality and just two weeks ago we told you about conservative muslims now we're going introduce you to conservative jewish americans posing as the jewish a