and fake taliban. talks and talks about talks to not strategy make. i'm hoping some of those issues will come out in today's discussion. given the importance of this topic it is my honor to introduce the esteemed group of panelists today who bring a lot of expertise on these issues. we are going to each panelist have approximately 15 minutes to speak and start with unama team who is the author of this excellent new report that has just been put out that i hope you all get a chance to read on "making peace in afghanistan: the missing political strategy," which is the topic of today's conversation. at book tv was formerly the head of analysis and planning. she is currently working out of oxford for the european stability initiative on projects and intervention and state building. prior to working in afghanistan after one had extensive experience working on peacemaking including as a senior adviser to the nobel peace laureate, the former finnish president supporting his work in northern ireland and throug

there's lots of rumors and discussions of contacts last fall with taliban and fake taliban and talks about talks do not make strategy. i hope those come out in today's discussion. given the importance of this topic is really my honor to introduce the pammists today to bring a lot of expertise on the issues. each panelist has 15 minutes to speak, and we'll start with the author of the excellent new report that usip put out which i hope you get a chance to read, making peace in afghanistan, the missing political strategy, the topic of today's conversation. she was the head of the formal analysis and planning at the united nations assistance mission in afghanistan, but is currently working out of oxford for the european peace initiative on interventions and state building. prior to working there, she had extensive experience with peacemaking and served as the senior adviser and former finnish president and supporting work in northern ireland. she worked within the bull cans and holds a degree from the london school of economics and harvard university. the second speaker a minister ali.

it has moved to 5000 taliban. [inaudible] >> that's an important. one of the things which is probably could have been incorporated is that the taliban rule,. [inaudible] now, i wonder if north country still not heavily supported the taliban. now, the pressure on these countries if you take the example of pakistan is limited to drone rocket in pakistan. but there is no other pressure in term of policies, strategy. and as you know these are very strategic allies in the war against terror. so why strategic effort is not taken by all the nato countries and united states to pressure is pakistan? you talk about the haqqani network. they are all in pakistan. so why not put pressure on that? that is very important element that i see about that. i would fully argue with professor jalali that there are -- [inaudible] not really doing so good in afghanistan. during the 30 years of work, not a single movement emerge in against a. despite the fact of all the war but nobody wanted to north afghanistan or south afghans do. they

before 2001 al-qaeda was protected in be taliban-controlled afghanistan. al-qaeda and the taliban along with various associated groups still maintain an alliance based largely in the border region between afghanistan and pakistan. and the taliban continue to wage a brutal insurgency against the government in kabul in an effort to regain control of the country. the taliban and al-qaeda are distinct groups with distinct aims, but they are both our add adversaries and part of a syndicate of terror that must be broken. after he took office, president obama launched a thorough review of our policy and set out a clear goal: to disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-qaeda and prevent it from threatening america and our allies in the future. al-qaeda cannot be allowed to maintain its safe haven protected by the taliban and to continue plotting attacks while destabilizing nations that have known far too much war. from the tigress to the indus, the region will never live up to its full potential until it is free of al-qaeda and its creed of violence and hatred. that is an aspiration that should unite e

the keeps al qaeda out of afghanistan but there are attempts to hammer the taliban through night raids home searches well they're in vertically creating opportunities for al qaeda and the taliban to become even more closely knit so when are we going to get it to our strategies are working jointly to discuss it as paul mccleary reporter for defense technology international paul thanks so much for being here thank you now before we get into strategy which of course also what we're talking about i want to ask what you make of this report in terms of the taliban and al qaeda i mean is there anything here that we don't really know already that the taliban al qaeda are not the same people that they have a complex history that perhaps our strategies are only making them you know bringing them closer together right i mean there's several books are lawrence wright is a looming tower kind of made this argument about the relationship between the taliban and nine eleven and it was fractious and more the omar and bin laden didn't see eye to eye on a lot of things and bin laden. didn't keep him in t

and fake taliban. talks and talks about talks to not strategy make. i'm hoping some of those issues will come out in today's discussion. given the importae of this topic it is my honor to introduce the esteemed group of panelists today who bring a lot of expertise on these issues. we are going to each panelist have approximately 15 minutes to speak and start with unama team who is the author of is excellent new report that has just been put out that i hope you all get a chance to read on "making peace in afghanistan: the missing political strategy," which is the pic of today's conversation. at book tv was formerly the head of analysis and planning. she is currently working out of oxford for the european stability initiative on projects and intervention and state building. prior to working in afghanistan after one had extensive experience working on peacemaking including as a senior adviser to the nobel peace laureate, the former finnish president supporting his work in northern ireland and throughout t

taliban cannot be that smart." that was a tipping point.g >> smith: he was ridiculing your evidence. and he w ang? >> yes. yes, he was gry. he had every right to be angry. >> smith: can you remember anything he specifically said? >> i remember every word he has said. i don't want to repeat it. >> smith: saleh resigned, accusing the president of appeasement. >> he is no longer bad-mouthing the taliban. he calls them brothers. >> smith: to defeat the taliban, saleh supports escalating the war. >> i am in favor of more robust activities against the taliban. >> smith: he advocates more raids, more targeted killing. how effective are targeted operations? >> very effective. you cannot roll your tanks. there is no enemy territory, per se. >> these guys have already been hiding. >> the enemy is hiding amongst greater civilian population. >> smith: there are great risks in getting it wrong and killing civilians? >> yes. >> smith: in fact, civilian casualties soared 31% last year. so how dyou bance ose risks against the gain

in afghanistan, the taliban popularized in the largest of the groups and the taliban is now spreading into tajiks, is pakistan, whose backs. they had the momentum that controlled 80% of the country, spreading more and more in their star reason for them to feel defeated. you could in theory crash the posh can population the way sunnis in iraq were crashed, the have to be genocidal and the americans thankfully i pepperell. the only be in modern times is malaya to model the americans are .2. but they didn't malaya mistake half a million chinese were the source of the rebels to move into concentration camps. you could take millions of pashtun and brutally move into concentration camps or bomb the out of them, but you are to be genocidal and the americans aren't that brutal. so there's no way to crush the population. iraq was easy from an american point of view. it was urban, modern, had roads. the city of baghdad in the population center is spread by it. you can control the population. the counterinsurgency is about protecting people, controlling them so they obey you. in afghanistan, rus

to the afghan taliban? >> we are in continuous contact with them and we do believe that we both have now a common thread and a common task, common objective. and we should coordinate and the situation will impact some of those to deteriorating. and so i think we do see some good indications of that future prospect for more coordinations between our two nations. and it has been expressed in the last two meetings which we had in the form of our apartheid and our chief of staff level and also -- >> charlie: apartheid would be pakistan, afghanistan and the united states. >> yes. we have this arrangement since 2006 that we have this meeting and the chief of staff -- in other meetings which is one level below. in the surface there is a lot of mechanism for coordination, intelligence sharing, sharing knowledge and thins with counter ied. but recently i think they are all argument that we have increased our cooperation and we are operating they will cooperate from their side. >> charlie: can you win without that. >

and fake taliban. talks and talks about talks to not strategy make. i'm hoping some of those issues will come out in today's discussion. given the importance of this topic it is my honor to introduce the esteemed group of panelists today who bring a lot of expertise on these issues. we are going to each panelist have approximately 15 minutes to speak and start with unama team who is the author of this excellent new report that has just been put out that i hope you all get a chance to read on "making peace in afghanistan: the missing political strategy," which is the topic of today's conversation. at book tv was formerly the head of analysis and planning. she is currently working out of oxford for the european stability initiative on projects and intervention and state building. prior to working in afghanistan after one had extensive experience working on peacemaking including as a senior adviser to the nobel peace laureate, the former finnish president supporting his work in northern ireland and throug

before 2001, hawkeye was protected in taliban-controlled afghanistan. al qaeda and the taliban, along with various associated groups, still maintain an alliance based largely in the border region between afghanistan and pakistan. and the taliban continue to wage a brutal insurgency against the government in kabul in an effort to regain control of the country. the taliban and al qaeda are distinct groups with distinct aims, but they are both our adversaries and part of a syndicate of terror that must be broken. after he took office, president obama launched a thorough review of our policy and set out a clear goal -- to disrupt, dismantle, and the ft al qaeda, and prevent it from threatening america and our allies in the future. al qaeda cannot be allowed to maintain its safe haven, protected by the taliban, and to continue plotting attacks while destabilizing nations that have known far too much war. from the tigris to the indus, the region will never live up to it's full potential until it is free of hawkeye's debt and its creed of violence and hatred.

complete and very fight with the taliban discussed with the taliban exit strategy we don't have that here and in my personal case i have made it an exit strategy with the taliban and with the resistance with. i got there ok and i got nobody in the german government to listen to me and that's quite interesting nobody in nato even wanted to know about it even people why there was the election campaign going on in two thousand and eight wanted to listen to well we've been listening to you christophe hostile thanks very much indeed for joining us live here on r.t. business and government live there in berlin thank you. us politicians don't often hold back when it comes to their views of the world but it seems they haven't always check their facts and there's artie's gonna cheat you can reports it's the american people who are becoming the butt of the joke. advising other countries on democracy seems to be a must for any u.s. politician and some of them get so carried away that they confuse what countries exactly they're talking about i also want to thank the president with the way now gr

it is taliban country. where are we traveled in h elmand, we traveled in the company of the marines. in the north, we had no security at all. we went east of kabul where poppies have been completely eradicated. >host: the eradication efforts -- there is a history of those areoppose it and there those who profit. you have written that this is the hinge on which america's national securities -- security interest swing. on the ground level among farmers, what is their notion of why they are growing poppies and why people want them to be destroyed? guest: for the last couple of decades, it was the only way they could make money. there is a history in afghanistan. these problems did not crop up overnight. copies have been cultivated for centuries, maybe even to the fourth century bc when alexander the great was there. he left behind the crop that may have conquered the country. it was only grown sparingly, for medicinal uses throughout the 18th and 19th centuries. in the 20th century, you began to seem more popp

traits did you directly negotiate with the taliban to kill the poppy crop or i spoke with the taliban leaders in one thousand nine hundred seventy when they just conquered. the country about the limitation. poppy cultivation. in exchange for international aid for the after the peace. they did not abide by the agreement we've got. and i change the strategy. i ask the security council to get the sanctions they got. also i will be to them politically from the countries that surround the focused on the fifty percent of. before arriving to russia or before arriving to europe. after going to have a stake in the region both to pakistan. to the six countries borders of i created an alliance of these countries to put pressure on the taliban on top of the cultivation. of this fact or blood a certain point the taliban would be to the production in the year two thousand and one there was almost zero production of afghanistan this is important because. i showed that it is possible to eliminate the drug cultivation of i'm not going to start it is not something that is beyond our possibilities for e

the companies who are comprised by warlords and sometimes even by the taliban. they go to the security of. voyeur trucks goes from kabul to anywhere in afghanistan in exchange of huge amount of money and the money that is taken from the military nato military logistic is more i calculate the takes from drug trafficking well now you as an executive director at the office for drug control and crime prevention i know that your policies almost brought about a collapse in afghan poppy training did you directly negotiate with the taliban to kill the poppy crop or i spoke with the taliban leaders in one thousand nine hundred seventy when they just conquered. the country about the nation. poppy cultivation. in exchange for international aid for the after the peace. they did not abide to the agreement we got. and i change the strategy. i ask the security council to give them sanctions they got. also i repeated them politically from the countries that surround the against the fifty percent of. before arriving to russia or before arriving to europe. after going to heaven s

defeat the taliban and secure these small towns and if you know wanting them to to get out first of the fight isn't as bad just seems a little odd to me well steve i remember that perception is the most important thing this conflict has said it several times there's a great rolling stone article by michael hastings recently that lays it out very clearly that perception is the most important part of this conflict and not the perception of the afghan people but the perception of the american public jhumpa trace study this when he was up at princeton he was thesis on vietnam and american public perception of it so the important thing for our generals and for our ministration the u.s. is for the perception to be that the war is going well. ok so the strategy is working so that the president can look like he's winning the war which is important for the twenty two elections so the pentagon can look like they've won the war because they just came off the iraq war which by no measure can be counted as a clear they can get a clear w. in afghanistan if the public perceives it that way so perc

that the taliban of the lee be victorious. is this not now the time for fresh thinking on afghanistan, which must include it in the americans to open talks with the taliban? canton out and fight at the same time. >> first of all, of course there has to be a political process. almost every insurgency in history has ended for some combination of military might and political process. where i do not agree with the gentleman is that this year, i think the taliban will see that there is no meaningful removal of u.s. forces from afghanistan. this will be another year where the taliban will be heavily defeated on the battlefield and will therefore make a political decision more rather than less likely. >> why has the -- does he intend to honor the agreement with the arab forces? >> i do not accept what the gentleman is saying. the armed forces are actually excluded from the report in terms of increasing the contributions that people make. that me remind him first, we said we would double the operational allowance for people serving in

department defense that the taliban's strength lies in the afghan people's perception that the taliban will ultimately be victorious. is this not the time for fresh thinking on afghanistan which would include afghanistan to open talks with the taliban because in northern ireland you can talk and fight at the same time? >> well, i say two things to the honorable gentleman. first of all, of course, there has to be a political process. almost every insurgency in history has ended through some combination of military might and apolitical process. i accept that but where i don't agree with the honorable gentleman is i think this year i think the taliban will see that there is no meaningful removal of u.s. forces from afghanistan. this is going to be another year where the taliban are going to be heavily defeated on the battlefield and, therefore, will actually make a political decision more than rather than less likely? >> thank you, mr. speaker. did the prime minister tell us why it's cutting the benefits and pensions to the forces and does he intend with the agreement of the forces. >> i

of this fact or blige at certain point the taliban to be the production for the year two thousand and one there was almost zero production for this time this is important because. i showed that it is possible to eliminate the drug cultivation of i'm not going to stop it is not something that is beyond our possibilities for example in a recent interview with russia today his recent interview with he said that you know and promise is that we are in control of there is no proper protection where we're not in control we you know we can't be responsible true it is true that if they cooperate with the international community in the plan to provide africa base and ultimately a livelihood. drug production can be eliminated i'm sure that to the point that with the even of. we in the with the between russia and the e.u. we are going to launch a plan to meet production in five years thank you very much. thank you. are. going. to rally will sell lots of beer will. they will wear uniforms that will damage is the black man but very little damming the white. and they are the key to our problems are

the afghan people's perception that the taliban will ultimately be victorious. is it not now time for fresh thinking on afghanistan, which must include getting the americans to open talks with the taliban, because as we proved in northern ireland it is possible to talk and fight at the same time? >> i would say two things to my honorable friend. first, of course there has to be a political process. almost every insurgency in history has ended through some combination of military might and a political process. i accept that, but where i disagree with my honorable friend is that i think that this year the taliban will see that there is no meaningful removal of us forces from afghanistan. this will be another year in which the taliban are going to be heavily defeated on the battlefield, which will make a political solution more rather than less likely. >> why is the prime minister cutting benefits and pensions for the armed forces? does he intend to honor the agreement with our armed forces? >> i do not accept what the honorable gentleman says. indeed, the armed fo

not want taliban style rule. these pro-taliban religious parties, i think about 2% of the vote in the last election. those are positive. the negatives of course there was a brilliant story and in your times a few days ago about the assassin of the cabinet of punjab who had showered was peddled by the sailors, sharp out about which i think is quite disturbing when they sought educated people are pro-democracy. yet they assassinate one of the most important politicians in the country, just on the basis of his opposition to the blasphemy law. >> host: this is in the heart of urban pakistan's. >> guest: right. that is worrisome. people have been predicting the fall pakistan for years, i'd like been very skeptical. pakistan has gotten much worse. they lost at the country 1971. they lost are drawn three and have wars with india. they've had a lot of existential crises. >> host: every major foreign policy call that made the wrong decision. >> guest: but what the united states and essentially destroying the soviet union

to the six countries borders of i created an alliance of this country to put pressure on the taliban on stopping the cultivation. of this fact or blige a certain point the taliban would be to the production in the year two thousand and one there was almost zero production of afghanistan this is important because. i showed that it is possible to eliminate the drug cultivation of i'm not going to stand it is not something that is beyond our possibilities for example in a recent interview with russia today his recent interview with cars that he said that you know and promises that we are in control of there is no proper protection where we're not in control we you know we can't be responsible. it is true that. cooperate with the international community in the plan to provide africa a base an alternative livelihood. drug production can be eliminated i'm sure that to the point that with even off. we between russia and the e.u. we are going to launch a plan to eliminate production in five years you're talking then your resume details a life long fight corruption organized crime and drug tr

officials as well that taliban sanctuaries are in pakistan. and it's active inside pakistan, and even the recent u.s. reports say that he was treated in th hospital by isi. according to these cocerns, what do you think -- what should be -- what's the way how to deal with pakistan? and i want to hear o the same answer, and i want to hav the same question from general barno asell. so what should be? how is the way to deal with pakistan in such condition? thank yo. >> this question on sanctuaries. probably all three of you will have observations on this. general wardak, would you like to begin? >> sure. i think -- there are some facts about pakistan that have been a lot of attempted by the international comunity, the afghan government, and also the recentestablishing the peace. i mean to improve the situation and to get more cooperation from the pakistani side. and as i mentioned and i think geneal barno also mentioned, that after all of these years, i think there are signs of improvement that we will have some cooperation tat have been also rece

again, the afghan taliban have a clear choice. the part of afghanistan's future or face unrelenting assault. for reconciliation to take hold, for it to be irreversible, afghanistan oppose the government will need to provide security -- afghanistan's government will need to provide security to all its people. the u.s. and our allies will continue training, advising, and assisting afghan forces. we're working with president karzai to implement a responsible transition to afghan security leadership, which will begin in the coming weeks. and in july, we will begin to reduce the number of troops based on conditions on the ground, transition to an afghan leadership will be complete by the end of 2014. we think this provides the afghan government the time andits means to further build up the security forces, ministries, and institutions that will make reconciliation and durable and sustainable. just as importantly, a political process that takes insurgents off the battlefield will make it easier for our troops to hand over responsibility

officials as well that taliban sanctuaries are in pakistan. and it's active inside pakistan, and even the recent u.s. reports say that he was treated in the hospital by isi. according to these concerns, what do you think -- what should be -- what's the way how to deal with pakistan? and i want to hear on the same answer, and i want to have the same question from general barno as well. so what should be? how is the way to deal with pakistan in such condition? thank you. >> this question on sanctuaries. probably all three of you will have observations on this. general wardak, would you like to begin? >> sure. i think -- there are some facts about pakistan that have been a lot of attempted by the international community, the afghan government, and also the recent establishing the peace. i mean to improve the situation and to get more cooperation from the pakistani side. and as i mentioned and i think general barno also mentioned, that after all of these years, i think there are signs of improvement that we will have some cooperation that have bee

and the warlords are following that as long as there isn't the taliban there and so that may be what we're aiming at just kill as much about as possible and turn over the authority you need to the warlords and so that would be a short term strategy is just in the short term get rid of the taliban while you're there then leave leave it to the warlords and who knows what happens afterwards but how long do you think betrays thinking about this is perception game of telling everyone that things are going well and that they are gaining momentum against the taliban and when the proof is really questionable there he might be able to keep it up for quite a while even at the height of the surge in iraq when we the people were questioning whether this was a good operation whether these were good tactics. he managed to portray a success he managed very well. in american military activities it's possible that he'll be able to pull this off in afghanistan as well for at least as long as he wants to be there and we don't know exactly how long that is what people are using the number to call the wa

>> know, the taliban is not on the ropes yet. ok? thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> u.s. ambassador to iraq testified today about the u.s. transition in iraq. that is next on c-span. today, egyptian president hosni mubarak announced that he will not run for office again. we will have his remarks later, and in reaction from president obama. tomorrow, a deal on how tax policy can affect the federal deficit. live coverage from the senate budget committee begins at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span3. this weekend on c-span2, michael reagan on his father has this week marks his father's birthday. emily lambert on the history and purpose of the futures market. find a full schedule of our website, including this week's in death. signup for our vote tv alert. >> now a look that the u.s. transition in iraq from the military mission to the civilian mission. witnesses include u.s. ambassador to or wrapped james jeffries and the commander, lloyd austin. this hearing is

at the time john joined the taliban the united states was not hunting down taliban fighters. he is currently serving a 20- year sentence. >>> headlines from around the bay area now. a freshman is under arrest after police say he made death threats against a teacher. the boy allegedly told a school councilor he was angry with the teacher because he believed the teacher embarrassed him in front of other students. police say a search of the boy's belongings turned up a notebook with a murder plot and elaborate escape plan. >>> a former airline ticket agent is accused of ripping off half a million dollars from passengers. they say they stole numbers off credit cards and used it to create bogus cards to buy gift cards at safeway stores. >>> borders will soon close a dozen stores in the bay area. the retailer declared bankruptcy today. the affected stores in alameda, fremont, pleasanton, and many others. >>> man versus computer. a watch party in the bay area. kiet do with the computer scientist who believes that it was elementary. >> reporter: in san francisco it was supposed to be

the taliban. the headmaster peddled his bicycle 30 miles to the commander leader and he had two daughters going to another school. he got very upset and came in with 120 militia and did kill onal ban and wounded one and arrested the 12 dozen others and found out they had gotten 200,000, 3,000, $100 to shut down the school from the mulla in the village. they went to his house and arrested him and they're a waiting trial in kabul and will probably get 6 - 8 years. two days later think did open up the school and even had another inauguration for the school because they said we want our kids to go to school. there are about 18 schools - she's got the facts. there's 18 girls that are not going to school and we set up what's called displaced girls school but the rest of the kid have come back here and i think if if quest we can give those k the support they need for education i think things could really make a difference. this is another school. this is in a remote area of north afghanistan. the first d

is most concentrated it's getting worse why because the taliban is now like any mafia. controlling the trade encouraging farmers to grow poppy taking money from the transit taking money from the sale and using it to fund the insurgency which means the best way to tackle the drug problem is to do what we're doing and tackle the taliban ok in another subject is the collective security treaty organization as far as i understand nato hasn't been very enthusiastic so far in cooperation with this is that true. well there is no consensus i mentioned that nato operates by consensus there's no consensus to have formal relations at this point between the two organizations but we have good relations with all the member states a number of nato countries i think thirteen have observed the c.s.u. operation which is an anti drug operation which has been effective so it's not like a total embargo but we don't yet have and there is no consensus to have at present organization to organization relations. nato cold the central asia and the caucasus. strategically important regions what doe

islamist regimes with a strong front of political islam, apart from gaza and sudan, you might look to taliban rule in pakistan and if yes stand within the tribal areas or portions -- pakistan and afghanistan within the tribal areas or portions of nigeria. or they a activities in orl-

enemies. >> reporter: those same people also suffered at the hands of the taliban. this woman was punished for leaving her family. >> even said in a closing statement if i knew now what i know now about the taliban i wouldn't have supported them. >> reporter: some in the audience didn't buy the premise of lind being an ideaistic 20- year-old on a mission to defend innocence. >> when he saw them there should have been some light bulb that went off. this may not be about defending afghanistan, it might be a different agenda. >> everything that is so obvious to us now after 9/11 was not obvious then. >> those are the facts, then why is an in the man still sent to prison? how does a legal system fail? i asked them that because he is a lawyer and he should have the experience to know that answer and he says because of the climate of the media and everybody being against him you don't even get a fair trial. >> frank lind said he spoke with lis son by phone this morning. he is in jail in indiana and continues his arabic studies as well as working on a bachelor arts degree.