we welcome to crossfire computer labelle the price of oil the curse of oil with the ongoing on rest in the arab world petroleum markets are more than reacting is the global economy on the edge of another deep recession and are high oil prices here to stay is the price of oil time to arab revolutions and aspirations. can. you discuss the impact of all this on oil prices i'm joined by michael klare and in springfield he is director of five colleges program in peace and world security studies and author of rising powers freaking planet and a new geopolitics of energy in new york we go to andrew she's director of communications and marketing at euro pacific capital and in frankfurt we crossed william engdahl he is an economic researcher and the author of a century of war anglo-american oil politics and the new world order and another member of our cross-talk team yellin the hunger all right gentlemen this is cross talk and you have different opinions i want my viewers to see them william let's go to you first let's talk about the possibility of what's people are calling the return to the g

the peak oil thing is a myth that was created by more importation robbery and selling oil than the oil dries think ok someone prices and you've been very very melody and you've been very patient go right ahead of him. thank you a lot of the projections about all the man kind of discount how much the man will be coming from china over the next twenty or thirty years and i think there is soon being a wealth growth in trying to push course china wants a lot more energy they're going to import a lot more oil and if they do if the rev if the chinese come to their senses and allow their greater appreciation of the r. and b. not only that will unleash their domestic demand because they'll have greater purchasing power and will be able to buy more oil around the world as oil becomes cheaper price in their own currency and they're going to experience a significant significant interest was asian which could put severe strains on global global production and that would especially in dollar terms of the dollar remains a currency that we're using in that europe and must much of the world use the re

is running out of oil due to peak oil so it's implementing other solutions which are going to be dead on arrival you can also see how we are at the peak system that we have at the moment because we have a petro dollar basically dollar backed by oil but they're in a death grip saudi arabia can't do with less than eighty five dollars because of the disaster of the us based debt system which is now which is clearly not been fixed so but because of that the us can't ever grow out of those debts the western world because oil cannot go below eighty five dollars and you also will never have the demand for credit to keep the credit ponzi scheme going like it has been because of the felde europe to find new significant oil discoveries that would require a massive draw on credit so this is peak credit working along with peak oil and peak everything else. peak globalization peak financialization so things are falling apart and they're falling apart in different countries in different ways now speaking of resources i want to go to this headline for an interesting quote in this story is jeremy gra

there are other sources of oil. we set a dangerous trend in the oil markets. the temptation is always there. at this point, i recommend we do not access the strategic petroleum reserve from a pricing standpoint. if we think there is a near-term or ongoing risk or shortage, then we have some flexibility. it takes about two weeks to keep it in once we make that decision itabout six weektwo weeks to kk in. we do not have a shortage facing us tomorrow. we have robust inventories in this country. we have a flow of oil into the country on its way. we're not facing an immediate supply crisis tomorrow or next week. we should keep that in mind. >> if something needs to be done, is this something we have to do on our own? are there private sector is available? how big a pool do we have to draw from? >> we should include the iea. they exist to coordinate on a global basis so there is some kind of an override in how people think and respond and react. we should be in touch with the iea. we should do that instantly, before the president speaks. most of the major companies,

oil. us intelligence satellite reconnaissance and other physical tests in the disputed territory between yemen and saudi arabia to feed the entire world economy for the next fifty years that's only one example somalia is another one the world is swimming in oil we're running into oil not running out of it so again i say this is a political a geo political question american power since one thousand nine hundred five has rested on control of oil control of oil everywhere and how that middle east situation develops is going to have a massive impact on that but that's a political question not a resource question michael if i hear your answer your question peter is yes they want to sell oil all right dr michael fay can go you irrespective irrespective of the anybody irrespective if you agree in the peak oil theory or not it let's put that aside right now it's still going to be an issue of price and the input political turbulence will always for exporters drive up the price i mean again the kind

the oil men are a far cry from texas oilman. today, this man got lucky and struck oil. the oil of eastern java is similar. some people are trying to make a living others have discarded. there are electronic garbage dumps and the search for a valuable metals like copper which can be found in old computers. 300 million computers and laptops are sold every year each of them contains about 500 grams of copper. that amounts to 150,000 tons of copper with a total value of 800 million eurus. it comes to about 1% of the world's annual copper output some 300 containers from overseas coming to ghana every month with electronic scrap are illegal under international law. >> black smoke hangs over one of the world's biggest digital dumping grounds. this is the final destination for much of the electronic garbage from the u.s. and europe. these young men come here almost every day to salvage what they can from the old computers. this 16-year-old is the oldest of the group. >> this is life. you go to school, you'll not get anywhere today. >> sylvester pays the scrap dealers the equiva

all of our own oil. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize that everything you thought you don't. charge is a big issue. for the white house this week is that ministers continued their push back against the proposed trans canada oil pipeline since monday more than one hundred sixty people have been coughed in protests the project mostly pushed by oil all guards in texas will create a massive pipeline across america stretching from canada to texas will follow seven hundred thousand barrels of highly toxic crude oil every day across some of america's most treasured and pristine lands protestors of the project describe it as a fifteen hundred mile fuse to the biggest carbon bomb on the continent a way to make it easier and faster to trigger trigger the final overheating of our planet president obama can stop the project on his own with the stroke of a pen and environmental activi

government will be anxious for it to resume italian oil giant e n i. is the first to send back to libya and it says rose on the knees french towel and. also did well as investors hopes they'd soon be able to resume production in libya but it was price to the libyan people the great sheer is that just as they did in iraq that creates a democracy which serves interests or the west's interests or oil companies interests and does nothing for the people of libya nor emmett's. asia times correspondent pepe escobar believes as soon as western countries get libyan oil contracts they will want boots on the ground to secure them. this is the cover story in this story from the beginning was our to be responsibility to protect that was the basis for our un resolution one nine seventy three there is that bathes of the agreement between the u.s. and saudi arabia we get there is a loser and based on your fake arab league gold nine the countries out of twenty two and you can do any you want with saudi arabia itself but this was the cover story sold to american and eur

ok now enter the vast reserves of oil in oil sands in alberta the u.s. views this as the pillar of its future energy needs building a pipeline to deliver it but here's the problem it's been stopped by environmental concerns and regulations also this oil from the oil sands is known as dirty oil and environmentalists are not fans meanwhile as the u.s. flags in just what it wants to do someone is very willing and eager to step in its china and they're willing to spend big money for a big piece of these oil reserves and check out how the leaders in canada have changed their tune in general towards china now that it's looking to the asian country as a customer for its exports to pick up slack from the economically challenge us for example back in two thousand and six prime minister stephen harper said i don't think canadians want us to sell out important canadian values our belief in democracy freedom human rights they don't want to sell that out to the almighty dollar back then harper was very critical of the chinese china's human rights record and the forei

oil going by winter. that would be december 2 1st. and a agree with that time frame. the systems there were shut down in an orderly fashion. it's not like they were overrun. they weren't targeted, necessarily, for attack. there is miles of pipeline, tons of redundancy so i think we have good reason to be optimistic. most 6 that oil, a good million barrels of it or more coming on-line by the first quarter of next year. >> susie: so let's say that that oil does come back on-line. what does that mean for oil prices around the world? >> how much will they come down? >> they should come down considerably. that brent crude number you referred to should be down and $90 a barrel. that, european markets got hit the hardest because they are reliant on what we call light sweet, naturally low in sulfur crude oil for all of their motor fuel production. they have very stringent environmental regulations over there. that's basically the only kind of oil they can use. and no other country could make up the gap, not even

down in the gulf we had got with the oil spill last year and we're still dealing with the oil spill and it was a major multimillion dollar campaign to tell the rest of the world that the oil was gone and everything's fine but i'm here to tell it's not fine and we still have oil in our marshes over our beaches we have good wildlife come in every single day we have people that are you right now we have people that are ill because the dispersants everything from neurological disorders skin problems and we're talking about from small children with a little benzene in their system to older people and i've come here in solidarity to fight this pipeline because it's not fair the truth matter is clean air and clean water are human rights this is a human rights issue and i don't want to see that what's happened in the gulf but across the nation just. like the aggression with regard to the gulf i saw news reports a couple days ago that there appears to be leaking out of the b.p. well again. i think it is ok it is not over there is it is that we have any of the gulf restoration network get a fly o

in the oil prices as you say talking almost three dollars in festus thinking that there are oil production kids shortly now it's least foreign minister has confirmed that the italian oil company any has sent workers back into libya they've led the way really in sending their work is back there immediately we saw the stock prices rise again as we're saying on the hope that they'll be able to reestablish output from libya now what we've seen is the other big oil companies such is the b.p. have actually sat on the fence at the moment they're waiting for the exactly how this plays out and what's going to happen over the coming days and weeks analysts saying that any and total companies such as any intakes who could be the major winners in post-war libya they were the companies and they were the countries that showed the most support for the rebel forces during this time. that they can benefit now with the current situation you originally but presumably many others have got. any thoughts about the future concerning. absolutely what we've heard from the information editor of the libyan rebel oil

even get pulled the faith to tripoli is sealed so that great oil grab is already beginning when the oil companies start circling around the violence torn country concerns resurface the so-called battle for democracy was of war for blab gold all along. can i am in the russian capital you are watching r t with me marina joshie colonel gadhafi son has made an appearance in central tripoli refuting rebels claims that he had been arrested he came to speak with international journalists are still trapped in a hotel without electricity and communications during a brief window when power was restored we managed to speak on the phone wasn't upin a journalist lazy fellow who saw a safe gadhafi herself. so there have been some extraordinary event tonight of course we've been hearing over the past few days that the libyan government is crumbling opposition of the rebels are claiming they are we are told of tripoli that was not surprised at the specified foreign. power went by but one shot at the hotel. on a boy and he gave an interview saying that he also took some of that done with him for a drive

even get pulled the fate of tripoli is fields to great oil grab is already beginning as western oil companies start circling around the violence foreign country concerns resurface the so-called battle for democracy was a war for glad gold all along. watching r t coming to life from moscow i'm marina joshie so breaking news this hour could off the sun made an appearance in central tripoli refuting rebels claim that he was arrested a claim was initially confirmed by the international criminal court as an apparent journalist and he fell and told us this is casting a shadow over other statements by the rebel council. well there have been some extraordinary events right of course we've been hearing. you say that the libyan government is crumbling train wreck of the plane that they are in complete control of tripoli that was not the right. part of the foreign done. but i think hotel. honestly i'm a bit and if you see this and if you don't think i promise it's on the weekend for drive three to fifty but they were taken. and some of them maybe thousands of people in the. number of. people from hyde p

now the oil industry doesn't want to hear that but the best deal in the world is to produce oil in the united states of america because royalty regimes elsewhere around the world are far less lucrative to the oil companies so let's change the royalty rate in return for more production and let's use those royalties for the next generation of energy. the new technology, the innovation, the so-called green energy. that deal could be struck. and with respect to the ngos, i think getting the ngos on board that, yes, we're going to open up oil for the next 10, 20, 25 years and we're going to find royalty methods that are going to pay for what you're advocating in the green energy sector and all of a sudden you've got democratic forces coming together in coalition rather than in opposition. that's maybe a drain too far but i think it's a real possibility. >> we're in a situation -- let's take about the oil situation and talking about the green energy and being bold. china is number 1 in production of wind turbines. china is number 1 in production of solar panels. we haven't built a new nuclea

now enter the bastard serve of oil in oil sands in alberta the u.s. views this as the pillar of its future energy needs a lever is building a pipeline to deliver it which has been stopped because if you can environmental concerns and regulations also this oil sands oil is known as dirty oil and environmentalist are not fans so meanwhile guess who's eager to step in china they are willing to spend big bucks for a big piece of these oil reserves and check out how the leaders in canada have changed their tune just in general towards china now that it's looking to the asian country as a customer for its exports to pick up slack from the economically challenged us let me give you an example in two thousand and six prime minister stephen harper was harping on china's human rights record and he said then i don't think canadians want us to sell out important canadian values our belief in democracy freedom human rights they don't want to sell that out to the almighty dollar back then his foreign minister also accused china of industrial espionage while fast fo

fate of tripoli is sealed great oil grab is already beginning b.p. has a contentious oil and gas exploration contract in libya which the u.k. government will be anxious for it to resume italian all giant easy n i. is the first to send back to libya and its shares rose on the new french two towel and all three as. well as investors hopes they soon be able to resume production in libya but at what price to the libyan people the great fear is that just as they did in iraq the creation democracy which serves british interests or western interests or oil companies interests and has nothing for the people of libya nor emmett's aleksey london asia times correspondent pepe escobar believes as soon as western countries get libyan oil contracts the old one boots on the grounds to secure it. this is the cover story in this story from the beginning was r two p. responsibility to protect there as the basis for a un resolution one hundred seventy three there is a b. the of the agreement between the u.s. and saudi arabia we get a resolution based on your fake arab

a western oil companies have already started circling around.

running the country the west will get the oil. this is a. complex. a long time to resolve. tribal conflicts conflicts. political. rebels big. not so long. people there were also people who attacked. us and so on so. you know. you should pull the group. forward contracts to. something because basically the rebels. tend to nato. in this particular particular case was. very likely then friends of the going to benefit from. news of the rebel advance into tripoli was greeted warmly by investors around the world sparking an immediate drop in oil prices and last say now the most important question is just how much stability the new government will bring or tease her for it has the latest what we thing really is a knee jerk reaction in the oil markets to the events in tripoli we stay in the oil prices you say talking almost three dollars in festus thinking that there are some hopes so oil production kids very shortly now it's least foreign minister has confirmed that the italian oil company any has sent workers back into libya they've led the way really sending their workers back t

it's america's oil. america's oceans. oil companies sell order. it's the governments responsibility to ensure that the public trust is protected. let's move quickly to restoration. restoration is becoming a part of our culture and our economy. from the talented to the gulf, this country is engaged in restoration and will be for the rest of this generation. i'm pleased the restoration plan is moving forward in the gulf, with the gulf ecosystem task force that was greeted by the president. and other natural resources trustees under opa 90 are moving forward. but i have several critical elements to suggest. nesa my experience with the exxon valdez oil spill, we must have a common vision for healthy bio diverse productive gulf, and we must have clear measurable objectives and rigorous criteria moving forward with projects. to make this happen, congress should demonstrate that america will not sacrifice the long-term health of fisheries and biodiversity of the gulf of mexico, or any other large ecosystem of this country, or short-term and usher product

that's on the oil front. on the natural gas front, this is a country andrew, that has the fourth largest reserves in africa. this is no small cry here. you're looking at algeria, you're looking at egypt as major producers of natural gas and nigeria. this is a great new frontier. the other thing we shouldn't forget in terms of its vast potential, this is light sweet crude that doesn't need a big refining capacity. so those in southern europe, italy with berlusconi are looking to place oil giants there. a town in good position along with spain, to bring that oil and gas into southern europe. this was the big new frontier on the energy front. for europe especially from an energy security standpoint. >> i'm curious, john, have we heard anything from opec? the oil group throughout the recent events. >> yeah. they've kept a low profile. it's interesting because of the live coverage we did back in june. right before that meeting, about a a week before the meeting, a veteran of the libyan oil business and of the liby

it's commercial for big oil here. "a reality that we have just been hiding and not talking about literally for decades, and let's reopen that up. >> let me ask the group. in our area it's a problem, but yeah, how did we let this happen? how does the president ask the question, you know, we've known we were dependent on oil for 20 years, everybody has talked about energy independence. how come we're at this point? why haven't we done more? >> i think that the situation here is that the reality is really less grim than the perceptions. but the way this thing is wired together, something like a less than 1% withholding of oil by two countries that are using against the united states can have far more influence on the economy and stock market and all of those things. and we have allowed ourselves to be worked slowly into a very delicate position with this international oil market largely controlled by countries who are at best neutral towards the united states, at worst end antagonistic and it's delicate that one quiver h

oil prices he said talking almost three dollars in festus thinking that there are some hopes so oil production could shortly now it's least foreign minister has confirmed that the italian oil company any has sent workers back into libya they've led the way really in sending their workers back there now what we've seen is the other big oil companies such as he has actually passed on the fence at the moment they're waiting for the exactly how this plays out what's going to happen over the coming days and weeks what we've heard from the information manager of the libyan rebel oil is that they said they don't have any problems with western countries worthing companies italy france the u.k. but they could have political issues with countries like brazil china and russia now if that's to be the case then that could certainly be a major setback those countries you could see the loss of billions of dollars worth of oil contracts i was. speaking to one of the editors today very large newspaper here and it's the and he's been following the situation very closely and how he described this was