there are reports of gunfire near the libya tunisia border as well thousands of libyans are heading in that direction to flee the fierce fighting between pro and anti kadafi forces correspondent is at the border. well violent clashes have been reported along its unusually been border over the weekend it all started on friday when local resident has reported that near the town of. reportedly several vehicles with the license plate carrying arms men have been spotted afterwards clashes have been erupting throughout the weekend between the tunisian border patrol and believe in men we can talk with certainty about their identity of those men there have been some casualties but again there's still no information whether or not there have been any any deaths among the among the libyan attackers we do know that none of the tunisian border guards have suffered now you have to remember that it was in tunisia where the events of the so-called arab spring have started transfer to transpire this year with the i'll sing off the tunisian president and the rest which started in tunisia has essentiall

people you know if they stay with the devil you know what kay and that's exactly what they did with tunisia and then they turn around and their entire democracy project blows up on them in lebanon though it's again against the will of the people there clearly i don't care what people think about hezbollah it is a popular. political party in the country it's up for the people to decide and not again hillary clinton dictating what kind of democracy should people should have because everything the united states has done in that region last forty years is just create extremism. yeah you look i think you're identifying some good points i'm not sure if i agree with the way that you're portraying i mean there's no question you know that the united states hasn't lived up to this great espousal of always being for democracy you know the reality for any country whether it's today or historically you know has had a balance off the principles you stand for the security interests that you have in the light you know and what we've been seeing i think is as as as your previous guest was saying was part of

toward the border where people fear the internal conflict is already spilling into tunisia plus. this is what's left from the offices and. how much it was attacked by three mistruths operates in here shortly before. the six. party tour of the country which many believe is following it maybe as footsteps our special report on the aftermath of the military operation in the syrian city of hama is coming up later this hour. russian foreign minister sergei lavrov says there could have been a less bloody resolution to the libyan crisis but both nato and khadafi didn't allow it to happen. we have always wanted a quicker outcome and it could have been faster but a number of factors prevented this from happening including could not use a position told allies they could not she insisted that negotiations were only possible to him actions were also an obstacle they far exceeded the mandate issued by do you want security council. fighting in libya is reported to have reached the country's border with tunisia we're having gunfire has been heard tunisia has beefed up its army presence and a fr

fighting in libya is reported to have reached the country's border with tunisia or heavy gunfire has been heard to beefed up its army presence in the frontier area as lenient and full traders have allegedly crossed the border artie's corresponded to remove the spot for us. the violent clashes have been reported along it's unusually been border over the weekend it all started on friday when a local resident has reported near the town of dues reportedly several vehicles with the license plate carrying arms men have been spotted afterwards clashes have been erupting throughout the weekend between the tunisian border patrol and the even men we cannot talk with certainty about the identity now you have to remember that it was in tunisia where the events of the so-called arab spring have started transfer to transpire this year with the ousting of the tunisian president and the unrest which started in tunisia has essentially been caught like a fever throughout the middle east and the north africa and the result is that what we are seeing in the capital right now now back then in the spring

violent clashes have been reported along with tunisia libyan border over the weekend it all started on friday when a local resident has reported that near the town of dues reportedly several vehicles with libyan license plate carrying arms men have been spotted afterwards clashes have been erupting throughout the weekend between the tunisian border patrol and really being men we cannot talk with certainty about the identity now you have to remember that it was in tunisia where the events of the so-called arab spring have started transfer to transpire this year with the ousting of the tunisian president and the unrest which started in tunisia has essentially been caught like a fever throughout the middle east and north africa and the result is that what we are seeing in capital right now now back in the spring of this year thousands were fleeing from tunisia to europe in order to escape the mayhem which was going on here and now a similar situation is happening to libya but now libyans are fleeing all over the border with tunisia into tunisia and of course what we could be witnessing is

into tunisia and of course what we could be witnessing is yet another human catastrophe in the region with thousands of refugees trying to escape to me how of course we do not know whether or not those refugees will try and make their way into europe which dealt with that crisis and now may be facing another one with the ongoing clashes in libya. former u.s. diplomat in libya john graham says even if the rebels take over there will barely be a hint of democracy in the bia there is so little civil society in libya there are so few democratic institutions and they are so weak they have nothing to build on and egypt in tunisia there was at least something to build on once the top filter was was was gotten away with in libya that's not the case these people have to start from scratch and there are all kinds of reasons why it could fail what is the whole nature of the transitional council is the it's it's a mess it's these people are some of them are exiles some of them are have fled from that you could argue regime a few of them are islamicists summary intellectuals and college professors

journalist academic intelligent person whatever who said that things were going to really blow up in tunisia and egypt now and i think that we really have to see where they go people are demanding i think three things they're demanding greater freedom both for their individual lives and for ability to affect their government their protests and its massive corruption the mubarak regime the ben ali regime and they want to kind of like opportunity this is mostly you know young males out there who want to opportunity in their lives the reality is that you know you mentioned hizbullah as well has a lot of popular support in certain segments of lebanon there's no question about it but you know the notion that somehow they're going to represent all the people to not impose themselves and i'm not quite confident about that either and the same is true you know if a mosque what you originally won its election. basis speaking to the corruption of the palestinian authority you know the injustice is the economic problems that were there but then when they began to rule they ruled with an iron fist of the

in egypt or some of the political islam parties that have been trying to stamp out by the dictator tunisia they're going to emerge as part of the mix and we really need to figure out ways you know to work with them because neither tunisia or egypt are these uprisings at this point at least anti-american this is not iran one nine hundred seventy eight seventy nine it may well go in that direction if the u.s. does some of the things you're saying that that it's doing but right now i think the obama administration you know is trying it's a very tricky balance and you can find you know contradictions. it fine but they're trying you know as they have since the president came into office when he went to cairo and he gave a speech it's been an awful lot of stuff going on there that doesn't make the headlines but there's been working with civil society groups and other groups in egypt and elsewhere to try to develop you know their ability to to be part of the political process and that's a way to get the balance right but to say that it's all you know just about you know standing with all dictator

the libyan border where people fear the internal conflict is already spilling into tunisia plus. this post from the office is a problem in the sense of how much people say it was attacked by the groups operating here shortly before. six hundred ninety two is that a country which many believe has a following in libya's footsteps our special report on the aftermath of the military operation in the syrian city of hama that's coming up a bit later this hour here on out. fronts plans to hold a high level meeting next week to discuss libya's political future the libyan opposition leader has been invited to attend but he's trying to push the reports from the french. every e.u. state has now declared it wants to take an active role in libya's development while at the same time saying it was the libyan people to decide their own future so it's because they are raising the question what does europe want does it want to continue interfering in libya's affairs or let them democratically decide their own future even poland's foreign minister has said that poland wants to take part that france

into tunisia and of course what we could be witnessing is yet another human catastrophe in the region with thousands of refugees trying to escape from me how of course we do not know whether or not those refugees will try and make their way into europe which built with that crisis and now may be facing another one with the ongoing clashes in libya. now just to remind you we've got extensive coverage of the situation in tripoli on our website. to r.t. dot com for the latest video analysis and opinion and also to the minute news from the region on our twitter page follow us at r.t. others or. fighting between protesters and government forces continues in syria as well the city of power has witnessed some of the most severe clashes but a few days ago the army was drew and our tears were of a national a struggle to the city to assess the aftermath of the violence. the city of hama around two hundred kilometers north of the capital damascus religiously conservative sunni dominated city it's been one of the centuries of religious tensions here in syria for many years in one thousand nine hu

into tunisia and of course what we could be witnessing is yet another human catastrophe in the region with thousands of refugees trying to escape to me how of course we do not know whether or not those refugees will try and make their way into europe which dealt with that crisis and now may be facing another one with the ongoing clashes in libya. these are live pictures right here in. central tripoli here we can see the smoke rising above the buildings residential and business buildings in downtown tripoli here smoke being seen over the libyan capital after the nato bombing rebels and loyalists continue to clash in the capital more details to come regarding the latest conflict and just to remind you we got extensive coverage of the situation on our web site head over to r.t. dot com for the latest video analysis and opinion and you can also get up to the minute news from our region from that region rather on our twitter page or just follow us. on the school. and the continuing fighting between protesters and government forces in syria has prompted the u.n. to order an investigation in

thirty percent many regard democracy as a low fullness and direct elections so the latest events in tunisia make us wonder if west so-called democracy industry does really. or its own interests. right jeff and i think are you one of the things that happened you know when one of the reasons why ben ali was such a big friend of the americans in the west in general and any and we can look at what's going on in egypt and other countries in the region is because they're a staunch allies on the war against terror ok and that's always top of mind here and in the deep the nonsense that spewed out about here is terror and that's terribly you know just terrifying publics in western media and it does it all of the time and there these people are you know they may not be you know thomas jeffersons but you know they can they're still going to be on our side isn't this really being. shown is a complete exaggeration now because these tyrants created. a fundamentalist group of people that may be inclined to terrorism and things like that i mean the lack of a supporting our own ideals and values have actual

program starts with fruits and whatever was we did we see that he did all that we see that at all in tunisia i mean i kind of feel radical level i can listen to what you're talking about but my goodness i mean you know it was not too long ago that ben ali was you know he was a guest in the white house and he's called a great friend of the united states ok i mean really i mean it's still a bit rich if i can use that term again right here bruce if i can go to you i mean all of america's friends i mean these are can i just say something all right go ahead to television if i was going to something very quickly go ahead if when ali you've been ali was still such a big friend of the united states or from western world generally speaking you probably if it was all about supporting authoritarian regimes in the name of security interests or economic interests then the now you wouldn't be in the white would be in washington and on the parties ok well that well that seems to be the ultimate safe haven for it will. so you probably other dictators going there as well bruce if i can go to you i mean you c

into tunisia and of course what we could be witnessing is yet another human catastrophe in the region with thousands of refugees trying to escape from me how of course we do not know whether or not those refugees will try and make their way into europe which dealt with that crisis and now may be facing another one with the ongoing clashes in libya. and then just a reminder here we're not you know we've got extensive coverage of the situation in tripoli of course on our website dot com head on over for the latest video analysis and opinion you can also get up to the minute news from the region on our twitter page just follow us. on the school called. the continuing fighting between protest of protesters and government forces in syria has prompted the u.n. and she want rights council to call for an investigation into alleged. relations there the government crackdown on protesters has been going on for six months now the city of hama has witnessed some of the most severe clashes but a few days ago the army withdrew an r.t.s. maria from his travel to the city to assess the aftermath of th

into tunisia and of course what we could be witnessing is it another human catastrophe in the region with thousands of refugees trying to escape to me how of course we do not know whether or not those refugees will try and make their way into europe which dealt with that crisis and now may be facing another one with the ongoing clashes in libya. he's a really good listener right there well just to remind you we've got extensive coverage of the situation in tripoli on our website i just it was who r.t. for calm for goodness video analysis and you can also get up to the minute news from the region on our twitter page i just follow us that r.t. underscore. the unceasing violence in syria between protesters and government forces has drawn the attention of the u.n. human rights council it has ordered an investigation into alleged violations the city of hama has witnessed some of the most severe clashes and that maria financial trouble there to assess the aftermath. the city of hama around two hundred kilometers north of the capital damascus religiously conservative sunni dominated city it

in as it's out of the much the border as it's in libya in tunisia have been in sort of a degree as a plate over the past five months people have been not have been trying to escape police because they have a series of like it but what's going on you know is that control it especially now with the libyan forces literally attacking just going over out of their way over tripoli i found to get even more confusing now people who president every side near the border on this week inside say that over the past couple of weeks there have been reported clashes between on the identified arm down arms and then again we can border guards the ohss say that. there have been sightings of humor is heavy vehicles loaded with armed people are reportedly reportedly libyans but was no license plate so it's hard to identify exactly who those who those people were now as in the clashes which were pretty earlier today between we can point to trolls and i just want to be in government there have not been reported and. i just watched as he says already to say that they believe some of the gunmen on the inside

in tunisia, and egypt. the most important country, certainly the most populous has a pace in the best imagination. perhaps because of the pyramids or whatever it is. egypt is something that really has caught the public's eye in the united states also. perhaps not enough. but still there had been some change in the discourse about the middle east. so two successful instances i would urge people not to be pessimistic. all of the stories about how fundamentalist are going to take over. it's still something that's in the making in the works, but i myself am quite optimistic there are elections scheduled in both of countries. we should wait and watch. another muslim country about which they said the same negative take. democratic have not taken over. same was said about tunisia in 1998. it was a flawed country. all democracies -- no democracy in the world is perfect. but well on its way to becoming a full fledged democracy. i would urge people to have patient for egypt, for tunisia, and i'm optimistic about syri

we saw them in tunisia. we saw them in egypt, where the edifice of dictatorship that everybody thought was so permanent and unmovable is really quite fragile. a bit like that statue of saddam in the square in baghdad, which turned out to be hollow. most of these regimes have a very intimidating facade of security, of secret police, but, really, when the people push back and try to topple them, they discover, they're sort of paper tigers. hala? >> thanks, bed wedeman, our senior international correspondent and one of the key correspondents on the uprising sweeping the region there. as we continue to watch history unfold with rebels reaching tripoli, penetrating deep into the libyan capital. this could be the last chapter for moammar gadhafi. we'll be right back. [ oswald ] there's a lot of discussion going on about the development of natural gas, whether it can be done safely and responsibly. at exxonmobil we know the answer is yes. when we design any well, the groundwater's protected by multiple layers of st

the arab spring began in tunisia. on december 17, he set himself on fire in a small town and unleashed a wave of protests throughout the country and the region. >> we have taken the path to freedom. we open our mouths to call for liberty, justice. >> the president promised freedom and reforms, but he had already -- he fled to saudi arabia. the revolution spread to egypt. inspired by events antony's year, tens of thousands of people took to the streets of cairo. >> whenever i see the protest antony's, i think to myself, it is exactly the same for us. we have to do something, too. >> as the largely peaceful demands for the resignation of mubarak and his regime gained momentum, the allies responded with violence. the situation threatened to escalate until the army stepped in. on february 10, protesters were enraged when mubarak appeared on television. a day later, he resigned and fled the capital. he is now on trial. the opposition in libya cannot yet celebrate the end of muammar gaddafi, but the former leader is on the

turbulent things happening at the border with tunisia where apparently libya apparently libyan armed men have been scuffles with the tunisian border patrol we do not know whether those have been deadly startles we some of the libyan men are believed to have been wounded at the same time you also have thousands of refugees pouring from libya into tunisia where they're all staying camps in the south of libya and the authorities here believe many more are to come as the fighting in the capsule continues and so this situation possibly could possibly could take turn for the worse because you may be looking at another humanitarian catastrophe if the libyan. libyan rebels continue to. to try and take over it libyan capital and nato will continue to bomb tripoli and this is the situation that we're facing on the ground in tripoli right now ok thank you very much indeed for that update and as we were talking to you we are bringing pictures from tripoli. as i say these are live pictures as we're hearing reports that good daffy's compound is indeed being stormed by the rebel fighters. now for m

well it's very difficult i don't know i don't think that will take him to tunisia and definitely not maybe he might go to the us to tunisia or of the other countries bordering and take a plane from there to zimbabwe or to very few countries north korea where he would be still accepted as a host so it's very difficult to see and it might take some time to discover it even if he stays in his own countries if we remember said the same hold on it took to discover him in iraq dr going to as we are talking we are bringing dramatic pictures there from tripoli now i'd just like to ask your opinion we understand that british intelligence has indeed been very much involved in carrying out the latest push on tripoli by advising the rebels does this imply the moment and even from the pictures we're seeing at the moment that we could actually have an effect for him boots on the ground as part of this operation despite what nato is saying. well there are no soldiers no fighting or combating so. on the ground i'm quite sure that as you rightly said there might be some advisors soldiers or former so

a thriving trade in smuggling goods from tunisia across the border is causing shortages there. our reporter accompanied one libyan who has been going across the border to buy food. as we see, his trip has been fraught with problems. >> turn right for libya, left for tunisia. at the moment, libyan shopkeepers looking for stocks had to their neighbors. ali, for example. he has come to this tunisian press restore across the border. he generally needs more supplies during ramadan but is not finding what he is looking for. the shopkeeper says he cannot get enough supplies delivered. >> the problem is that the producers do not want to supply us anymore. i think they are hoarding their goods to sell them at a much higher price to the other side, to gaddafi. most of it goes to libya. it is a catastrophe for our economy. this is all ali has managed to get for his hometown. his pick up used to be much fuller. at the border crossing, a rebel flag is flying. this area is no longer under the control of the gaddafi regime. but the tunisian guard still make his life difficult. >> i bought all

here to be a middle east expert here but i think it's quite interesting in this picture of aid for tunisia and egypt and you know a lot of people that are critical of western involvement in north africa would say you know you know the money might come but there's going to be all these strings attached and it's going to be the west involving itself in this very complicated and long term transformation i mean is is that it's shows it is the west trying to flex its muscle saying we're going to stay engaged in this region and they may think it's for good reasons but a lot of people in the region don't see it that way. there's a degree of cynicism in what you're saying there and i don't think that i share it what we're seeing in the arab world especially in tunisia and egypt is that is a nascent movement toward something that's a lot more in our interest and a lot more in their interest and more particularly and that is a more progressive and a more democratic elite governed society we we can't. i don't have the smarts to be able to direct that kind of thing but we do have the capacity to to as

tunisia and what is happening in egypt which is not. really the. speech that's not the issue but what i'm afraid of yes indeed and i'm. absolutely not. but i'm pretty sure the violence is going to break out to make some very interesting observations thanks very much indeed international consultant and former deputy speaker of the belgian parliament that reduced thanks. when news of the rebel advance into tripoli was greeted warmly by investors around the world sparking an immediate drop in oil prices and i don't know the most important question is just how much stability the new government will bring an issue i was just talking about ortiz refer to as the latest. what we see really is a knee jerk reaction in the oil markets to the events in tripoli we've seen the oil prices he said talking almost three dollars in festus thinking that there are some hopes so oil production could shortly now it's least foreign minister has confirmed that the italian oil company any has sent workers back into libya they've led the way really in sending their workers b

to this kind of process to get involved in it and because what we're talking about in egypt and in tunisia is going to be economic growth and that's going to take investment and that investment some of it has to come from places like india and china rather than from the west ok gentlemen at this point we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the world's most to lead this club stable. state. to the. wealthy british style it's time to rise. markets financed scandals find out what's really happening to the global economy for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines to name two kinds of reports . the last time the close up team was reached where the gold rush still gets people hiked up. this time margi goes to your own region. where the local government is giving power back to the people. where every orphan will be adopted. where locals turn their land into a tourist paradox well come to. russia close up on our team. play. welcome back to cross talk i'm peter lavelle tree mind you were discussing the relative value of ga. ok