demise israel will end in failure symbolic actions to isolate israel at the united nations in september won't create an independent state obama's fears are not unwarranted the general assembly vote would leave only the u.s. israel and a handful of other countries and a startling already on the issue sending a message for guarding the legitimacy of the palestinian position in the conflict but above all the vote could cause significant backlash in the middle east already in turmoil from the arab spring the stage is being set for calamity the high risk of palestinian riots to fully claim that state followed by a very tough israeli crackdowns adding fire to the unexpected and unpredictable popular upheavals in the middle east although initially the cost in years this isn't to go to the un became a fallback option after the negotiations hit a dead end last year the israeli government has warned that the un move would halt the peace efforts i don't think that they will it will get them any closer to the desired other country the meaning of such a step is that they are they prefer to go of pro

said that he's willing to reach a temporary a temporary truce with israel also israel it is clear he is willing to accept that all this is just going to say no that's true that's true he says he has indeed all of that are really just a chance here in germany are we to go to a break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the palestine cloke state party. and. if you can. well. bringing you the latest in science and technology from around russia. we've done the journey covered. this. six. welcome back to crossfire computable to mind you were talking about what the future holds for the palestinians. ok benny and i to go to you let's let's do a hypothetical here i mean you know the general assembly the vast majority the country the general assembly support the palestinian bid for changing its status of the united nations and we know that the united states will veto it but in the hypothetical case how would this change once the united nations takes a vote it will be in favor of the palestinians how will this change israel's position or will it not change at all. ok let

what is this going to do you see is just going to isolate israel more and if it isolates israel more it doesn't make israel just put its back up against a wall we don't go anywhere here go ahead i certainly hope it does isolate israel and i certainly hope that spawning from this we begin to see boycotts of israel we begin to see sanctions imposed on israel and we begin to see more and more international activity in an international legal arena rather than through this farcical negotiations that have taken place it's time for israel to be held accountable and i hope it certainly is after this after this u.n. session ok benny and what are you going to realize we're twenty seconds go ahead. i really wish that the palestinians would return to the negotiating table to which they've been invited repeatedly and actually do so seriously in good faith and negotiate a two state solution they don't want to do that there won't be any settlement the palestinians will continue to suffer all right we'll see what happens next week many thanks to my guests today in toronto and in bed and thanks to ou

. >> rose: we conclude with the case for israel from ron prosor, israel's ambassar to the united nations and mort zuckerman, american businessman who's a strong supporter of israel. >> israel does not object to the palestinian state. the prime minister of the state of israel stands and repeats day in and day out, people just don't listen, i am for palestinian state, i am for two states for two people solution and i'm willing morrow morning to meet abu mazen to talk to him without any pre-conditions about statehood and about security and about overall peace. >> i think a sense what the united states has to stand for are certain sort of immutable principles in that negotiation andtherefore, you know, the united states is opposed to what the palestinians are seeking to do, which is really not just to have the resolution, it's the terms of the resolution that will make a negotiation much more difficult and the united states knows better than anybody the attempts to have negotiations privately between the parties which have been turned down by the palestinians. the united states is very much

boycotts of israel we begin to see sanctions imposed on israel and we begin to see more and more international activity in an international legal arena rather than through this farcical negotiations that have taken place it's time for israel to be held accountable and i hope it certainly is after this after this u.n. session ok very and we really realize we're twenty seconds go. i really wish that the palestinians would return to the negotiating table to which they've been invited repeatedly and actually do so seriously in good faith and negotiated some state solution they don't want to do that there won't be any settlements the palestinians will continue to suffer all right we'll see what happens next week many thanks to my guests today in toronto and in back and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember prostitutes will. kick. start. the. missions free credit stations free. for charges free. range month free. free. free. downloads free broadcast live video for your media projects a free medio don carty dot com. home.

future of israel. there is no future for israel as a jewish and democratic state that is secure and living in recognized boundaries if it doesn't deal with both sides of the coin. one side of the coin is it has to reach peace with all its neighbors, and it needs borders that are accepted by the neighbors in recognized by the whole the world. that's one part of the puzzle for the future, but the other part for those of us who care deeply about israel is the internal. it is the domestic health, the vibrancy of the democracy, the adherence to jewish values in practice, where jews finally have power. do they keep up what they said when we were a minority and we said the minority should be treated well. they should be given equal rights. you shouldn't have systems where you have preferences for those in power. well, we thought there was a good thing when we were in the minority. how about when we are in power? so i couldn't agree more. there's wonderful organizations like the new israel fund that focus on t

israel? our major international airport is a few kilometers away from the west bank. without peace, will our planes become targets for targets anti-arkte missiles placed in the anti-israel states? and how will we stop the smuggling into the west bank? it's the west bank mountain just dominates the coastal plane where most of israel's population sits below. how could we prevent the smuggling into these mountains of those missiles that could be fired on our city? i bring up these problems because they are not theatrical problems. they are very real. and for israelis they are life and death matters. all these potential cracks in israel's security have to be sealed in a peace agreement before a palestinian state is declared. not afterwards. because if you leave it jards, it won't. and these problems will explode in our face and explodes the peace. the palestinians should first make peace with israel. and then get their state. i also want to tell you this. after such a peace agreement is signed, i

six hours to cross the united states, three hours to cross israel, three minutes to cross israel by air, by jet plane. so what are we going to do? we're going to take this tiny airspace, chopt into two, give half to the palestinian state that is not yet at peace with israel? what are we going to do with airplanes landing in ben-gurion airport? we don't have yet peace. they can fire rocke at our planes coming in because they're circling of necessity above palestinian cities. you've got this whole array... can we go in hot pursuit after palestinian terrorists, hamas teorists who will opete from palestinian areas? these are not toretical problems. we left gaza, every square inch. we gave abu mazen, the palestinian authority, the keys to gaza. heas booted out to two seconds later by iran, iran's proxy hamas and we started having rockets falling on rael because we didn't wo out these details. we gave them a state without working out the peace. we gave them sta without working out security first. we shouldn't repeat that mistake. we're prepared to have a peace in which the palestinians have a

opposes not the policies of israel but the existence of israel. some argue the spread of militant islam especially in these turbulent times if you want to slow it down, they argue, israel must hurry to make concessions. to make territorial compromise. this theory sounds simple. basically it goes like this. leave the territory. peace will be advanced. the moderates will be strengthened, radicals will be kept at bay and don't worry about the details of how israel will defend itself. international troops will do the job. these people say constantly make a sweeping offer and everything will work out. there's only one problem with that theory. we have tried it. it hasn't worked. in 2000 israel made a sweeping piece of fur that met virtually all the palestinian demands. the arabs rejected it. palestinian lodged a terror attack that claimed 1,000 is really lives. the prime minister after words made an even more sweeping offer. in 2008 abbas didn't even respond but israel did more than make a sweeping offer. we actually left territories. we withdrew from

in its stance with israel of late and having said that diplomatic ties with israel it really changed tack after israel's gaza assault of late two thousand and eight early two thousand and nine after which over a thousand palestinians were killed most of them turned out to be noncombatants. that was when. prime minister. took to the national stage publicly shamed the israeli president shimon peres at the world economic forum in davos where he said to him you know how to kill people before storming off stage that was cemented last year after a garza bound aid flotilla was stormed by israeli military commanders and nine turkish civilians were killed. since then despite you know great attempts and some u.s. pressure there has not been a situation brought about where israel has apologized for those deaths as a result of which turkey has so its ties which is a huge loss for israel and i think a bigger scale all right josh if i know you want to jump in go right ahead. yelena well first of all i would take issue with some of the facts that rachel mentioned but i would remind us all and this

israel with the u.s. support of course is resisting saying such a move will hamper peace starts with the palestinians the other hand abbas insists his people do have a right to be fully represented in the u.n. itself just palestine really have a trucks to become the one hundred ninety five member part of the united nations and what's made it mean for the rest of the middle east we're asking professor eating those of a gas from the institute of oriental studies of the russian academy of science. in israel warns the current situation i mean least will likely be upset if they do add everything and isis palestine as a member state jerusalem here's a supporter granted what abbas and his people need bury the peace process once and for all and spark more conflict in the region the palestinians argue remission is vital for the protection of their territory from israeli expansion. although the jewish state is backed by the us palestine has a number of powerful allies to one of them is turkey which turned against i

lawmakers pro israel supporters and the prime minister of israel himself and human netanyahu responding immediately by saying if israel did return to its pretty nine hundred sixty seven borders it would be left quote indefensible a lot fast forward to today and the u.s. and israel seem to be on the same page with president obama at least at this point abandoning the notion that this would be the year that there will in fact be a new member of the united nations an independent sovereign state of palestine now in report kalen pointed out a little bit of what's behind those changes but i want to talk about this more and to talk about this part of the story let's bring in the editor of counterpunch alexander coburn who is in petroleum gornja. hey there alexander let's start with something the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. susan rice said she said that the move by president abbas is quote not going to create a state not in reality and not even in theory she said the fundamental issues that divide the parties will remain i guess i just want to get your take on this and what you think is really

and israel what they're actually saying the u.s. will continue to subsidize the arms industry and make sure that the middle east will continue to be very volatile very violent so that it will continue to buy weapons so that the neighbors of israel will continue to buy more weapons and that will create huge profits for the u.s. arms manufacturers that make the live the life of israeli citizen any better it's certainly not but it does make the life of israeli prime minister netanyahu better because he knows that the one weapon he still has by which you can find the protests and already he's hoping to silence the protests with is war if they're going to be another war in the middle east if there's going to be violent clash with the palestinians or with the lebanon and then or with iran then in the name of a state of emergency he can recruit and the young people and they will no longer be in the streets in the. plaza demonstrating that instead they will be in uniform and fighting a war and that will be the end of the protest i asked my

lawmakers pro israel supporters and of course the prime minister of israel himself has a yahoo responded immediately by saying if israel did return to the pre nine hundred sixty seven borders it would be left quote indefensible but fast forward to today and the u.s. and israel seem to be back on the same page as president obama at least at this point abandoning the notion that this would be the year that there would in fact be a new member of the united nations an independent sovereign state of palestine kalen pointed out some of what's behind those changes in her report but i wanted to talk more about this part of the story and for that earlier i spoke to the editor of counterpunch alexander kopp coburn and to start off i asked him to give me his take on the u.s. ambassador susan rice his claim that we saw that recent bid for palestinians statehood that we plan to do plan to stay on friday would quote not create a state and that fundamental issues that divide the parties still remain here is what he had to say what is the issue really is the. the fact that for twenty long years the unit

this notion that president obama is anti-israel, not a friend of israel, somehow betrayed israel, a lot of things rick perry is giving voice to today in new york, that has caught on. i think the big push in my piece was to try to make the argument that although the president has certainly tried to apply tough love with israel, he has been as stallworth an ally when israel needed an alley as it does in the u.n. and as it has on several owe occasions in the past we could talk about as any president in the recent past who's held the oval office. >> and as you captured in your story and in "new york" magazine, you wrote his role, obama's role -- to get netanyahu to sober up. >> correct. i think the notion there is that look, that the president, a lot -- there's a wide diversity of opinion, as you know, that thinks that if israel is going to remain a jewish and democratic state in the face of the demographic changes that are happening, the growth of the arab populations, growth of the palestinian populations, that they need to reach a two-state solution. the only other options are for them t

you're welcome, israel. you know who is also a great friend of israel, rick perry. >> rick perry is working his way into the palestinian statehood debate. the republican front-runner for president schmoozing with jewish leaders in new york. >> we'ric wallly indignant of the obama administration and their middle east policy of appeasement that has encouraged such an ominous act of bad faith. >> stephen: yes, obama is acting in bad faith. rick perry stands with the jews, when he's not dancing with them. >> stephen: you know, you know who would love that dance? the crowd at his next christian only stadium prayer rally. (laughter) >> stephen: when we return, i will talk more about the palestinian drive for statehood with jeremy ben ami, the president of the pro-israel, pro peace organization j-street. we'll be right back. (cheers and applause) (cheers and applause) >> stephen: welcome back, everybody. my guest tonight is the president of the pro peace, pro-israel lobby j street. i found him on j date. please wel

prisoners in israel. it's not that kind of situation. you got 10,000 people under incarceration in israel, all of them palestinians, some are children, some are women, some are old people. >> charlie: some are charged with murder. >> those charged with murde will get their just deserve and some are hold without prior and even without accusation. you have on the other side one soldier who is captured in a military oration by hamas. so which has more imperatives, more than the other? i think if your government is serious about it, they would have pressured israel to reach an agreement with hamas that hamas offered toelease -- in return for release of certain prisoners of these 10,000 held by israel. >> charlie: is there any indicati that hamas is changing. >> let me put it this way. you go back to 1993, okay. the plo then had the same language in its charter that hamas has in i charter about the removal of israel from palestinian territory, palestinian claims on all the territory, etcetera, etcetera. etcete

so israel has to defend itself. part of peace must be proper security safeguards where israel can defend itself, by itself in order to also defend the peace. i think these are the things that we need to negotiate with the palestinians. so tar they refuse to negotiate. basically -- so far, they refuse to negotiate. basically relying on the perceived wisdom they don't have to negotiate because israel will always be blamed as not wanting peace. we are prepared to have peace with the palestinian state. the palestinians want basically a palestinian state without peace. so, i think fair-minded people should tell them, sit down and negotiate. work out these issues of security and the recognition of israel as the jewish state. negotiate peace that's the only way that we can have it. you can't resolve it by u.n. declarations that's not going to do it. >> greta: did you watch or listen to president abbas' speech? >> i read it. i was busy writing my own speech. >> greta: you were ;b'%ck writing yours? >> i write my speeches ri

israel? our major international airport is a few kilometers away from the west bank. without peace, will our planes become targets for anti-aircraft missiles placed in the adjacent palestinian states? and how will we stop the smuggling into the west bank? it's not merely the west bank, it's the west bank mountains, it just dominates the coastal plain where most of israel's population sits below. how could we prevent the smuggling into these mountains of those missiles that could be fired on our cities? i bring up these problems because they're not theoretical problems, they're very real. and for israelis, they're life-and-death matters. all these potential cracks in israel's security have to be sealed in a peace agreement before a palestinian state is declared, not afterwards. because if you leave it afterwards, they won't be sealed. and these problems will explode in our face and explode the peace. the palestinians should first make peace with israel and then get their state. but i also want

and israel well they're actually saying the u.s. will continue to subsidize the armed industry and make sure that the middle east will continue to be very volatile very violent so that is will continue to buy weapons so that the neighbors of israel will continue to buy more weapons and that will create huge profits for the u.s. i'm going.

israel so it's all for what negotiations do for israel is they allowed to keep the status quo going there's an appearance that we're willing to talk and that they're the bad guys because they don't want to talk but in fact israel is scrambling on the ground the occupation gets stronger and stronger and finally abbas is finally said look there's nothing else to talk about either we get a state on the sixty seven borders or or you know we'll see what happens but we're not going to go back to the bush letter that says israel can keep its settlement blocks i mean that it the obama policy is you have are extremely pro israel then bush's policy once if we could talk an awful lot about this is a heck of a delay on the line as well between now me talking and do you i'm trying i just want to say thank you for your time just how co-founder of the israeli committee against house demolitions we could talk about this a lot longer but i'd say we're out of time thank you. still to come here on r t why immigrants in britain are doing a good job far of work as a soaking up to ninety percent of vacan

including israel and palestine. and for many of us who are supporters of israel, as a homeland for jewish people, as a democratic state and as a pluralist state, as a community institution, politics & prose believes in a thriving and robust free marketplace of ideas. a new voice for israel exemplifies what politics & prose is all about. and this legacy that carla and barbara meade began with the staff of politics & prose and you, the engaged customers, this legacy continues under the new ownership of brad graham and lissa muscatine. now, i want to just take a minute on some brief history history on israel and palestine in this store. under carla's chairing the free marketplace of ideas, this very place, exposed in a public forum at politics & prose the wrong-headedness of the book, "the israel lobby and u.s. foreign policy." there's a lot of questions, should a place, should they have a place to discuss their ideas. and carla and her team said, yes. but the give and take of ideas exposed what the authors were about.

israel's security in a more difficult space and i mean it's of deep concern the u.s. wants to turn the page on the past decade of tensions and support democratic development in the arab world having these new security related issues like in egypt and with turkey these are not good for long term american interests what i mean let's talk about long term american american interests and in fact america's global profile i mean if the u.s. running the risk of isolating itself if they continue to oppose the palestinian bid especially considering the overwhelming global support for the me. i think the united states recognizes that there is overwhelming global support for this and the united states the obama administration to support the palestinian state and they do know that they will be embarrassed at the u.n. if the vote goes forward they're trying desperately to get the palestinians to not ask for a vote perhaps president abbas will submit petition but it won't actually go towards trying to find some face saving way forward so they can move towards negotiations because ye

israel's main allies in the. turn their backs on the jewish state while the upcoming vote on the palestinian bid threatens further isolation at the end of the day when with us ultimately leave israel do you think. it's a deep concern to israeli policy makers and people in washington who focus on the middle east and look at israel as a core ally of the united states which it is growing isolation of israel because of the turkish moves the egyptian moves jordan israeli governments often difficult rhetoric and its refusal to acknowledge polish eyes for. the marmara incident turkey that killed nine turks all these tensions harm american interests in the middle east and in the region as a whole and puts israel's security in a more difficult space and i mean it's of deep concern the u.s. wants to turn the page on the past decade of tension and support democratic development in the arab world having these new security related issues like in egypt and with turkey these are not good for long term american interests what i

i think honestly goshi ations about getting their territory back from israel and israel keeps encroaching and weighing and increasing the settlements which is of course against international law to occupy. and develop kind territory that you've conquered militarily so i think this is this is sort of a desperation move on his part to get more leverage to try to get negotiations going in to try to get you know the two state solution and he was going to the u.n. i think that they've given more leverage over the process now whether he'll take it to a vote or take it see this compromise which you just mentioned. delaying the vote next year giving more time for a go she asians but that would still give him leverage to come back next year and. you know have that hanging over the negotiations so he might be able to get a better deal or to get israel to agree to more or more concessions with that with the vote in the future hanging over their over both parties heads turning to mystically president obama is headed for reelection in two thousand and twelve how do you think his policy toward the isra

israel won't apologize for killing time absolutist last year's gaza flotilla raid. at four pm in the russian capital you're watching r.t. now to our top story the syrian regime is accused of having more blood on its hands the government troops allegedly firing at demonstrators in the besieged city of homs where that's the head of the arab league chief's visit to damascus with a peace plan to try and solve the syrian standoff for the e.u. sanctions are the solution but its start is dialogue which will explain their slow introduction back. william hague britain's foreign secretary says horrific scenes of brutality of. syria but bizarrely sanctions were in store for over. a week you can even europeans or the french complete their supply contracts which. oil fields developed boy energy joints like french to toll being torched. but sanctions would start to. go on with reduction of oil as a result the e.u. me and. subsidizing the regime they oppose big oil industry can use sixty day payment which means the e.u. could still be funding. into next year if a crime the horrifi